Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Even people like David Gerrald believe Gene Roddenberry got it wrong with how he handled religion... he didn't have to become a devout anything to handle it better, either. The dude wasn't perfect (and that's okay). To say that religion is something to "move past," like violence and greed, is wildly insulting and very close-minded.
Clearly then you are a believer. Your right... and I would defend it with my life if needed. Regardless as I see it mankind could never get to a point where everyone acted in a manner that would serve all until they yes move past religion. IMO Religion is a simple way for people to cope with there fear. It may have made sense when we where apes and thinking such things helped us survive. At this point we are able to replace our fear with logic. I will admit most people have watered down there religions to a point where they are far less intrusive in day to day life. As I see it though there is no way for us to really as a species get to where Trek envisioned while we still cling to religion in general at least religion as most people know it.
When I agree B5 was more realistic. Its because it is. If we ever are able to move past religion it will take a very long time I have no doubt. B5 I think showed a human world where they where further along to the end of the removal of Myth. It will happen in steps. I do believe it will happen at some point though, if we don't blow ourselves back to the stone age first.
At some point people in general will have an easier time accepting they can use "I don't Know" and not have the world fall apart. You can also have a very healthy belief system and not really worry yourself with the bigger questions. Perhaps at some point before we get to a lack of Religion a more enlightened form of belief will take hold in the masses. I mean Buddhism is the fastest growing religion in most first world countries. The world would for sure be much better off if the majority of us where Buddhist.
White supremacists frequently stand in public and scream their beliefs.
So do many others with odious vile beliefs. But, they have that right.
I don't know what you believe the Enforcement Act of 1871 does, but I suggest you research it a little deeper. it certainly doesn't prevent a private citizen from standing in public and expressing his unpopular and hateful beliefs.
You know reading more... you may just be right. It would seem you may be able to sue gov officials for not stopping some forms of public protest. You may be right that there right to stand in the street and shout whatever the heck they feel like may be perfectly legal in the US.
The more I read about that backward country the more I am glad I don't live there.
I am certain that there is the Church of Q in the 24th Century Federation. An omnipotent being that interacts with humans recently vs. an omnipotent being that hasn't interacted with humans in over 2500 years. With Picard as the reluctant High Priest of the Church of Q.
Clearly then you are a believer. Your right... and I would defend it with my life if needed. Regardless as I see it mankind could never get to a point where everyone acted in a manner that would serve all until they yes move past religion. IMO Religion is a simple way for people to cope with there fear. It may have made sense when we where apes and thinking such things helped us survive. At this point we are able to replace our fear with logic. I will admit most people have watered down there religions to a point where they are far less intrusive in day to day life. As I see it though there is no way for us to really as a species get to where Trek envisioned while we still cling to religion in general at least religion as most people know it.
I think it's naive to say that people would not come up with excuses to engage in brutality towards each other if religion is driven out of society. In fact, that very act itself (attempting to drive away religion) is fraught with all sorts of brutalities and rights violations in our history. Secular belief systems are prone to great fanaticism too, and it is particularly dangerous any time that a group believes that because it is different from those people over there, that said flaws and temptations do not apply to them. It's bad form to say that, "It's only those guys who commit atrocities," while doing the exact same thing, and that is the pattern that we have seen in history. Personal gain, political power, ethnic and racial hatreds, sexual conquest--all of these and more would remain incredibly potent reasons without religion.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
You know reading more... you may just be right. It would seem you may be able to sue gov officials for not stopping some forms of public protest. You may be right that there right to stand in the street and shout whatever the heck they feel like may be perfectly legal in the US.
The more I read about that backward country the more I am glad I don't live there.
Oh. My. God. (Pun intended)
I was willing to let your bigoted statements against religion go without a word, but how dare you make such a comment!
The first country to usher in racial equality...
The country that began women's rights...
The country that created the idea of freedom from religious oppression... (Which you are very much enjoying at this very moment)
The country that brought the ideas of universal freedom and democracy for all people into reality!
And I won't even mention the various wars and conflicts we have helped to end and resolve...
And you call us a backward country just because we believe in absolute freedom!?
Your ignorance and bigotry make WBC look like saints in comparison! You use the very same right of free speech to denonce the freedoms of others! How dare you indeed sir! It is in fact people like YOU that are holding back humanity!
Clearly then you are a believer. Your right... and I would defend it with my life if needed. Regardless as I see it mankind could never get to a point where everyone acted in a manner that would serve all until they yes move past religion. IMO Religion is a simple way for people to cope with there fear. It may have made sense when we where apes and thinking such things helped us survive. At this point we are able to replace our fear with logic. I will admit most people have watered down there religions to a point where they are far less intrusive in day to day life. As I see it though there is no way for us to really as a species get to where Trek envisioned while we still cling to religion in general at least religion as most people know it.
When I agree B5 was more realistic. Its because it is. If we ever are able to move past religion it will take a very long time I have no doubt. B5 I think showed a human world where they where further along to the end of the removal of Myth. It will happen in steps. I do believe it will happen at some point though, if we don't blow ourselves back to the stone age first.
At some point people in general will have an easier time accepting they can use "I don't Know" and not have the world fall apart. You can also have a very healthy belief system and not really worry yourself with the bigger questions. Perhaps at some point before we get to a lack of Religion a more enlightened form of belief will take hold in the masses. I mean Buddhism is the fastest growing religion in most first world countries. The world would for sure be much better off if the majority of us where Buddhist.
Well, just as a point... I use the phrase "I don't know" all of the time. Yes, I may be a believer, but that doesn't mean I have all of the answers. For me, religion is less about answers, and more about a way of life. Faith, sometimes, is belief in the face of a lack of answers. (Again, see Kira and the Bajorans for a great Trek example of this.)
And, just to be clear, my comments about "moving past" religion being offensive was directed at Roddenberry, not you. I studied all kinds of religions in college (got my degree in religious studies) before moving on to grad school. I'm certainly no expert, but I find this fascinating, and I do believe there is an irreducible quality in every human that unavoidably considers and seeks "ultimate powers or concerns." Roddenberry believed that science was the ultimate concern, not any form of deity... that's fine, I suppose, but his ignoring of the religious aspects of the human condition left Trek very lacking for me.
We disagree on a few points... which is fine. But these are the stories I wish Trek would examine. In short, I believe there were (and still are) wonderful stories left untapped by this franchise, simply because Roddenberry concluded that "God/gods do not exist." It's unfortunate.
We disagree on a few points... which is fine. But these are the stories I wish Trek would examine. In short, I believe there were (and still are) wonderful stories left untapped by this franchise, simply because Roddenberry concluded that "God/gods do not exist." It's unfortunate.
Don't disagree. Its a subject they could have touched on more. I'm not sure if it was really all that Roddenberry was against the idea... and perhaps more it was simply something they didn't want to touch on. I mean as much as we all praise trek for going places that made some people uncomfortable. I think its possible they just didn't want to open that can of worms.
Anyway I agree, and do find it a bit sad that when they did get to religion on the show. As in the bajorns they often did it in a way that opened the idea to ridicule with worm hole beings ect.
I was willing to let your bigoted statements against religion go without a word, but how dare you make such a comment!
The first country that to eliminate slavery and usher in racial equality...
The country that began women's rights...
The country that created the idea of freedom from religious oppression... (Which you are very much enjoying at this very moment)
The country that brought the ideas of universal freedom and democracy for all people into reality!
And I won't even mention the various wars and conflicts we have helped to end and resolve...
And you call us a backward country just because we believe in absolute freedom!?
Your ignorance and bigotry make WBC look like saints in comparison! You use the very same right of free speech to denonce the freedoms of others! How dare you indeed sir! It is in fact people like YOU that are holding back humanity!
For someone to get so upset for my calling your beloved nation backwards... you should really learn a little bit of history. Please don't make me point fingers at your education system. That was a joke man relax.
On woman's rights I will agree great strides where made by American Woman.
Canada gave Women the right to vote Federally on 24 May 1918. The US wasn't far behind your Senate voted on June 4, 1919.. although I believe it wasn't fully ratified until the 1920s.
On the freedom of relgion thing... I love your (that you are very much enjoying) what are you saying that I am wrong wrong wrong right ? lol Seriously though the US didn't start with a freedom of religion, the initial colonies where not all free in that regard. Some like Maryland, and Virginia did have freedom of religious practice laws though which was very forward thinking. I believe it was Thomas Jefferson that wrote the Virginia legislation. In any regard, it would be nice if more people in the US respected the great words written by those early Americans. No doubts there.
As far as the rest of your claims about the US ushering in a world of Democracy. My friend you live in a country where when you go to vote you have 2 options on the ballot. Sounds like a true democracy to me. Not that ours is any better we have 3 viable options. lmao
Anyway sorry to upset you so much. I stand by everything I said. Now go read some History, and learn a little bit more about the world around you and your place in it.
For someone to get so upset for my calling your beloved nation backwards... you should really learn a little bit of history. Please don't make me point fingers at your education system. That was a joke man relax.
On woman's rights I will agree great strides where made by American Woman.
Canada gave Women the right to vote Federally on 24 May 1918. The US wasn't far behind your Senate voted on June 4, 1919.. although I believe it wasn't fully ratified until the 1920s.
On the freedom of relgion thing... I love your (that you are very much enjoying) what are you saying that I am wrong wrong wrong right ? lol Seriously though the US didn't start with a freedom of religion, the initial colonies where not all free in that regard. Some like Maryland, and Virginia did have freedom of religious practice laws though which was very forward thinking. I believe it was Thomas Jefferson that wrote the Virginia legislation. In any regard, it would be nice if more people in the US respected the great words written by those early Americans. No doubts there.
As far as the rest of your claims about the US ushering in a world of Democracy. My friend you live in a country where when you go to vote you have 2 options on the ballot. Sounds like a true democracy to me. Not that ours is any better we have 3 viable options. lmao
Anyway sorry to upset you so much. I stand by everything I said. Now go read some History, and learn a little bit more about the world around you and your place in it.
I have a policy of not having debates with ignorant bigoted people, brick walls make better intellectual companions. I've said my peace.
I have a policy of not having debates with ignorant bigoted people, brick walls make better intellectual companions. I've said my peace.
Where we having a debate ?
You can call me a bigot if it makes you feel better. I have said my piece as well... as I have said I believe in freedom of all kinds, and that ultimate freedom of speech is backwards thinking. I may find religion childish but I would defend others rights to do as they will with my life.
Well, again, this is something I think Roddenberry got wrong in the Trek mythos... it took Deep Space Nine to come along (after his death) to give an honest look at religion in the 24th century.
And, look at the Bajoran people... sure, they were supposed to be a rough allusion to the Jewish holocaust, but they were a beautiful example of faith in the face of opposition. Opposition from the Cardassians, sure, but opposition from Starfleet officers who told them their deities were simply "wormhole aliens." Were they? Maybe, but Kira said it wonderfully when she said that it didn't matter. The Prophets came through for Bajor, and she believed everything would be alright because of them.
People like Roddenberry claim that religion is black and white, and therefore, doesn't have a place in a humanist future. Religion may be responsible for pain and war in human history... but it is also responsible for things like art, music, philosophy, and acts of compassion. These things aren't mutually exclusive to religion, but they are some of the best parts of the human condition... and the realm of religion.
Some of the biggest movements in science, especially in astronomy, was through officials of religious officials.
Clearly then you are a believer. Your right... and I would defend it with my life if needed. Regardless as I see it mankind could never get to a point where everyone acted in a manner that would serve all until they yes move past religion. IMO Religion is a simple way for people to cope with there fear. It may have made sense when we where apes and thinking such things helped us survive. At this point we are able to replace our fear with logic. I will admit most people have watered down there religions to a point where they are far less intrusive in day to day life. As I see it though there is no way for us to really as a species get to where Trek envisioned while we still cling to religion in general at least religion as most people know it.
When I agree B5 was more realistic. Its because it is. If we ever are able to move past religion it will take a very long time I have no doubt. B5 I think showed a human world where they where further along to the end of the removal of Myth. It will happen in steps. I do believe it will happen at some point though, if we don't blow ourselves back to the stone age first.
At some point people in general will have an easier time accepting they can use "I don't Know" and not have the world fall apart. You can also have a very healthy belief system and not really worry yourself with the bigger questions. Perhaps at some point before we get to a lack of Religion a more enlightened form of belief will take hold in the masses. I mean Buddhism is the fastest growing religion in most first world countries. The world would for sure be much better off if the majority of us where Buddhist.
So you don't have problem with religions in general, just the Abrahamic religions.
:rolleyes: Well, I guess this thread is what happens when I tempt fate. Who'd have thought someone would have forced the thread into a debate when everyone was in complete agreement that the WBC are complete morons?
Oh right, I should have remembered what forums I was on.
Or as I call them.. The Starfleet Dental of the real world.
Indeed. Trolls in the real world or digital world, transcend religion, culture and reality. Maybe the OP can start a thread about party balls at Spock's memorial.
I have a policy of not having debates with ignorant bigoted people, brick walls make better intellectual companions. I've said my peace.
It seems you only have a policy to call somebody ignorant if he/she shows you point by point that you were wrong, wrong, wrong.
Also, you use the word "freedom" quite loosely without context. I don't know if this is only a product of your right wing indoctrination, or if you are simply uneducated. One thing seems clear though, arrogance, closed mindedness and ignorance are common traits found in "'mericans" like yourself.
Have you even traveled to another country in your life (and I mean visited not invaded)? Do you even speak another language but english?
What you lack is perspective, it is pityful, thinking about it that you may not even know any better.
The "democracy" part was actually so funny, I nearly spit my morning coffee at the screen.
Remembering back, when Al Gore was legaly elected president, by having more votes than G.W. Bush, but a court decided against him winning.
The notion of lobbying itself is the most undemocratic thing in a so called "democracy" (actually an oligarchy, look the word up, you might learn something)
Not even getting into the legal bribing of politicians.
And finally the electorial system itself, where the number of votes is actually irrelevant, since the district besed electorial system simply swallows any vote over 51%.
The same goes for the presidential election, where once a state is blue or red any exess vote is ignored. Time after time it happened that a president that got overall less votes got to be president.
The district representatives and electorial college system made sense 1776, but in our day and age it is questionable to say the least. This indirect democracy leaves a lot of room for corruption and fraud...which happens during elections in the US on a regular bases.
No such luck. Take heart though-the Westboro folks didn't make it to the party anyway, or mabye didn't have the abilty to bring the party to the funeral anyway.
I'd like to blame someone or something in the game for this though.
I find it amusing how many self-announced "Atheists" are so insecure in their beliefs that they are compelled to attack the beliefs of others with an, I must admit, Evangelical zeal.
sometimes seems like "You have candy that I don't like, you shouldn't have candy."
then again, Atheism is every inch as faith-based as Theism, since the entire debate about the existence of god, gods, a god, goddess, ultimate creator, flying-spaghetti-monster, ceiling cat, etc. revolves around untestable hyptheses outside the range of our ability to even construct a viable methodology of evaluation.
at least, at present.
so really, the whole discussion is as silly as debating Ghosts, Space-alien-visitation-and-probing, Bigfoot, how to divide by zero, psychic phenomena, or Unicorn attacks in the United States.
You have a point... many atheists do attack religion pretty hard. I will admit I don't show much quarter, when I call the idea silly and other things that make people want to argue with me. lol (in truth I'm not really a pure atheist... I am a Buddhist Atheist, as of course most but not all Buddhists are) Its in keeping with my philosophical teachings to question all, and although it isn't my place to ask of others why they are not willing to do the same, I can't help it. I can't claim to be a perfectly enlightened person.
I also say I am willing to die for others rights to believe as they will. On that score believers ask your self who is willing to lay more on the line, the Atheist who is convinced worm food is the end, or the believer who is convinced things can only go up from there. (ok bad bad pun sorry)
I joke.. seriously though we all (myself included) should always do well to respect what others choose to believe. Its though love and understanding that we can all move forward if we choose. "Hatred is never appeased by hatred in this world. By non-hatred alone is hatred appeased. This is a law eternal. " - dhammapada 1:5
I like your point about a viable methodology of evaluation. It isn't impossible that one day we may indeed evolve an understanding of the universe to a point where we will be able to test such ideas and answer many of our questions. I'm sure we will find just as many new questions to ask as well.
I find it amusing how many self-announced "Atheists" are so insecure in their beliefs that they are compelled to attack the beliefs of others with an, I must admit, Evangelical zeal.
sometimes seems like "You have candy that I don't like, you shouldn't have candy."
then again, Atheism is every inch as faith-based as Theism, since the entire debate about the existence of god, gods, a god, goddess, ultimate creator, flying-spaghetti-monster, ceiling cat, etc. revolves around untestable hyptheses outside the range of our ability to even construct a viable methodology of evaluation.
at least, at present.
so really, the whole discussion is as silly as debating Ghosts, Space-alien-visitation-and-probing, Bigfoot, how to divide by zero, psychic phenomena, or Unicorn attacks in the United States.
Insecure? I dont think so. Atheists are not keeping quiet anymore, especially in country's were the threat of death has been diminished for questioning the existence of gods. (and yes in some places in this world an atheist will still be killed for questioning that area's dominate religion.) A majority of us just had enough of living under the thumb of mass delusions.
Its obvious the human race cant prove or disprove the existence of God. So no one is entirely sure, unless they are blindly letting belief guide them. However, There is one fact that is true in the debate of gods. We have had many in the past that have faded into obscurity, because the evolution of our intelligence as progressed. Which has led us to mainly one entity instead of many. But Like Neil Degrasse Tyson has said,
"god is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance".
It is imo, that if everyone looked at things more skeptically instead of blindly following, we could probably erase the whole thought of a sky daddy in time. It would be a hard thing to accomplish, because of certain things like indoctrination (WBC are the biggest criminals when it comes to that), but it is very possible as the number of nonbelievers are the highest they ever been and will only continue to rise with newer generations.
Also stargate gave the best explanation of our earth gods. Aliens ^^
Comments
Or a Jem Hadar
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Don't forget the Vorta.
Clearly then you are a believer. Your right... and I would defend it with my life if needed. Regardless as I see it mankind could never get to a point where everyone acted in a manner that would serve all until they yes move past religion. IMO Religion is a simple way for people to cope with there fear. It may have made sense when we where apes and thinking such things helped us survive. At this point we are able to replace our fear with logic. I will admit most people have watered down there religions to a point where they are far less intrusive in day to day life. As I see it though there is no way for us to really as a species get to where Trek envisioned while we still cling to religion in general at least religion as most people know it.
When I agree B5 was more realistic. Its because it is. If we ever are able to move past religion it will take a very long time I have no doubt. B5 I think showed a human world where they where further along to the end of the removal of Myth. It will happen in steps. I do believe it will happen at some point though, if we don't blow ourselves back to the stone age first.
At some point people in general will have an easier time accepting they can use "I don't Know" and not have the world fall apart.
You know reading more... you may just be right. It would seem you may be able to sue gov officials for not stopping some forms of public protest. You may be right that there right to stand in the street and shout whatever the heck they feel like may be perfectly legal in the US.
The more I read about that backward country the more I am glad I don't live there.
I think it's naive to say that people would not come up with excuses to engage in brutality towards each other if religion is driven out of society. In fact, that very act itself (attempting to drive away religion) is fraught with all sorts of brutalities and rights violations in our history. Secular belief systems are prone to great fanaticism too, and it is particularly dangerous any time that a group believes that because it is different from those people over there, that said flaws and temptations do not apply to them. It's bad form to say that, "It's only those guys who commit atrocities," while doing the exact same thing, and that is the pattern that we have seen in history. Personal gain, political power, ethnic and racial hatreds, sexual conquest--all of these and more would remain incredibly potent reasons without religion.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Oh. My. God. (Pun intended)
I was willing to let your bigoted statements against religion go without a word, but how dare you make such a comment!
The first country to usher in racial equality...
The country that began women's rights...
The country that created the idea of freedom from religious oppression... (Which you are very much enjoying at this very moment)
The country that brought the ideas of universal freedom and democracy for all people into reality!
And I won't even mention the various wars and conflicts we have helped to end and resolve...
And you call us a backward country just because we believe in absolute freedom!?
Your ignorance and bigotry make WBC look like saints in comparison! You use the very same right of free speech to denonce the freedoms of others! How dare you indeed sir! It is in fact people like YOU that are holding back humanity!
Well, just as a point... I use the phrase "I don't know" all of the time.
And, just to be clear, my comments about "moving past" religion being offensive was directed at Roddenberry, not you. I studied all kinds of religions in college (got my degree in religious studies) before moving on to grad school. I'm certainly no expert, but I find this fascinating, and I do believe there is an irreducible quality in every human that unavoidably considers and seeks "ultimate powers or concerns." Roddenberry believed that science was the ultimate concern, not any form of deity... that's fine, I suppose, but his ignoring of the religious aspects of the human condition left Trek very lacking for me.
We disagree on a few points... which is fine.
Don't disagree. Its a subject they could have touched on more. I'm not sure if it was really all that Roddenberry was against the idea... and perhaps more it was simply something they didn't want to touch on. I mean as much as we all praise trek for going places that made some people uncomfortable. I think its possible they just didn't want to open that can of worms.
Anyway I agree, and do find it a bit sad that when they did get to religion on the show. As in the bajorns they often did it in a way that opened the idea to ridicule with worm hole beings ect.
For someone to get so upset for my calling your beloved nation backwards... you should really learn a little bit of history. Please don't make me point fingers at your education system.
However lets list off your points...
Was The united states the first country to ban slavery... UM no.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abolition_of_slavery_timeline
Was it even the first in North America... UM no.
That would be Canada http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_Against_Slavery
Guess you never heard of the underground railroad yes those slaves where all escaping to the United States, the first nation to free them.
On woman's rights I will agree great strides where made by American Woman.
Canada gave Women the right to vote Federally on 24 May 1918. The US wasn't far behind your Senate voted on June 4, 1919.. although I believe it wasn't fully ratified until the 1920s.
On the freedom of relgion thing... I love your (that you are very much enjoying) what are you saying that I am wrong wrong wrong right ? lol Seriously though the US didn't start with a freedom of religion, the initial colonies where not all free in that regard. Some like Maryland, and Virginia did have freedom of religious practice laws though which was very forward thinking. I believe it was Thomas Jefferson that wrote the Virginia legislation. In any regard, it would be nice if more people in the US respected the great words written by those early Americans. No doubts there.
As far as the rest of your claims about the US ushering in a world of Democracy. My friend you live in a country where when you go to vote you have 2 options on the ballot. Sounds like a true democracy to me. Not that ours is any better we have 3 viable options. lmao
Anyway sorry to upset you so much. I stand by everything I said. Now go read some History, and learn a little bit more about the world around you and your place in it.
I have a policy of not having debates with ignorant bigoted people, brick walls make better intellectual companions. I've said my peace.
Where we having a debate ?
You can call me a bigot if it makes you feel better. I have said my piece as well... as I have said I believe in freedom of all kinds, and that ultimate freedom of speech is backwards thinking. I may find religion childish but I would defend others rights to do as they will with my life.
I guess thanks for the debate.
Some of the biggest movements in science, especially in astronomy, was through officials of religious officials.
So you don't have problem with religions in general, just the Abrahamic religions.
So Buddhism and the Abrahamic are the only two varieties ?
No I think all religion is childish. Buddhism strictly speaking isn't a religion at all.
Oh right, I should have remembered what forums I was on.
Or as I call them.. The Starfleet Dental of the real world.
It seems you only have a policy to call somebody ignorant if he/she shows you point by point that you were wrong, wrong, wrong.
Also, you use the word "freedom" quite loosely without context. I don't know if this is only a product of your right wing indoctrination, or if you are simply uneducated. One thing seems clear though, arrogance, closed mindedness and ignorance are common traits found in "'mericans" like yourself.
Have you even traveled to another country in your life (and I mean visited not invaded)? Do you even speak another language but english?
What you lack is perspective, it is pityful, thinking about it that you may not even know any better.
The "democracy" part was actually so funny, I nearly spit my morning coffee at the screen.
Remembering back, when Al Gore was legaly elected president, by having more votes than G.W. Bush, but a court decided against him winning.
The notion of lobbying itself is the most undemocratic thing in a so called "democracy" (actually an oligarchy, look the word up, you might learn something)
Not even getting into the legal bribing of politicians.
And finally the electorial system itself, where the number of votes is actually irrelevant, since the district besed electorial system simply swallows any vote over 51%.
The same goes for the presidential election, where once a state is blue or red any exess vote is ignored. Time after time it happened that a president that got overall less votes got to be president.
The district representatives and electorial college system made sense 1776, but in our day and age it is questionable to say the least. This indirect democracy leaves a lot of room for corruption and fraud...which happens during elections in the US on a regular bases.
Free Tibet!
I'd like to blame someone or something in the game for this though.
Who are this week's scapegoats?
Free Tibet!
You have a point... many atheists do attack religion pretty hard. I will admit I don't show much quarter, when I call the idea silly and other things that make people want to argue with me. lol (in truth I'm not really a pure atheist... I am a Buddhist Atheist, as of course most but not all Buddhists are) Its in keeping with my philosophical teachings to question all, and although it isn't my place to ask of others why they are not willing to do the same, I can't help it. I can't claim to be a perfectly enlightened person.
I also say I am willing to die for others rights to believe as they will. On that score believers ask your self who is willing to lay more on the line, the Atheist who is convinced worm food is the end, or the believer who is convinced things can only go up from there. (ok bad bad pun sorry)
I joke.. seriously though we all (myself included) should always do well to respect what others choose to believe. Its though love and understanding that we can all move forward if we choose. "Hatred is never appeased by hatred in this world. By non-hatred alone is hatred appeased. This is a law eternal. " - dhammapada 1:5
I like your point about a viable methodology of evaluation. It isn't impossible that one day we may indeed evolve an understanding of the universe to a point where we will be able to test such ideas and answer many of our questions. I'm sure we will find just as many new questions to ask as well.
Insecure? I dont think so. Atheists are not keeping quiet anymore, especially in country's were the threat of death has been diminished for questioning the existence of gods. (and yes in some places in this world an atheist will still be killed for questioning that area's dominate religion.) A majority of us just had enough of living under the thumb of mass delusions.
Its obvious the human race cant prove or disprove the existence of God. So no one is entirely sure, unless they are blindly letting belief guide them. However, There is one fact that is true in the debate of gods. We have had many in the past that have faded into obscurity, because the evolution of our intelligence as progressed. Which has led us to mainly one entity instead of many. But Like Neil Degrasse Tyson has said,
"god is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance".
It is imo, that if everyone looked at things more skeptically instead of blindly following, we could probably erase the whole thought of a sky daddy in time. It would be a hard thing to accomplish, because of certain things like indoctrination (WBC are the biggest criminals when it comes to that), but it is very possible as the number of nonbelievers are the highest they ever been and will only continue to rise with newer generations.
Also stargate gave the best explanation of our earth gods. Aliens ^^