but no.. they had to conform to the DPS crowds opinions on Queues across the board because they were the loudest about how "easy" it was.
For me it was never about difficulty it was about enjoying the fictional universe the way i want now I cant even do that...
Seriously I cant understand how these people can be so selfish....sorry to those of you whom are part of said crowd but seriously...when you spent months and months complaining about it alls you did was hurt the larger community base. I know it seems harsh to call you guys selfish but its basically ruined this game for me and many others at the end game.
its not 100% your fault of course but you share a lot of the blame.
The share of the blame also falls on the demographic of the playerbase that refused to do anything about their builds even when it became evident they would not be able to remain where they were. That those around them would not have to carry them anymore.
Theres a whole lot of 'If things were like it was prior to DR' coming from the Anti-DPSers while conveniantly ignoring the fact that it was the DPS crowd that was carrying them through those PUGs to begin with. It was those DPSers that provided the Anti-DPSers the means and established protocol for these Queues.
You really think a guy who could careless about how terrible his build was would turn around and find the most effecient and effective manner of running these Queues? No it was the same people that bothered to figure out how their ships worked, how their consoles, weapons and gear worked that figured all of that out. If it werent for them it wouldnt of found its way onto the Wiki, people would still be floundering around in the old STFs.
The Anti-DPSers for all the whine and complaints they hurl in the direction of the DPS Crowd have the DPS crowd to thank for dragging their sorry ***es through those Queues and giving them the wins they would of never experienced without them.
The share of the blame also falls on the demographic of the playerbase that refused to do anything about their builds even when it became evident they would not be able to remain where they were. That those around them would not have to carry them anymore.
Though that is completely ignoring the issue that a way to big a part of the player base has no idea what sources of information are reliable or not, and I know from my own experience with helping people that if they're more casual players they tend to be worried about spending what resources they have on something that might not work (odds are they haven't been taught how to make resources efficiently either).
Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. - Euripides
I no longer do any Bug Hunting work for Cryptic. I may resume if a serious attempt to fix the game is made.
The share of the blame also falls on the demographic of the playerbase that refused to do anything about their builds even when it became evident they would not be able to remain where they were. That those around them would not have to carry them anymore.
Theres a whole lot of 'If things were like it was prior to DR' coming from the Anti-DPSers while conveniantly ignoring the fact that it was the DPS crowd that was carrying them through those PUGs to begin with. It was those DPSers that provided the Anti-DPSers the means and established protocol for these Queues.
You really think a guy who could careless about how terrible his build was would turn around and find the most effecient and effective manner of running these Queues? No it was the same people that bothered to figure out how their ships worked, how their consoles, weapons and gear worked that figured all of that out. If it werent for them it wouldnt of found its way onto the Wiki, people would still be floundering around in the old STFs.
The Anti-DPSers for all the whine and complaints they hurl in the direction of the DPS Crowd have the DPS crowd to thank for dragging their sorry ***es through those Queues and giving them the wins they would of never experienced without them.
Well , if you wanted to post 100% pure BS , congrats ... , you've succeeded .
... just for the record , this game is 5 years old and the earliest DPS channel is over 1 year old at best -- which means that most of the older players have been " floundering around in the old STFs" for quite a bit of time ...
I wasnt even going to come to this thread if yesterday upon log-in, didnt saw on of the dirtbag posters (and some others too) in this thread trolling and mocking the pestf, when some1 only complained about his boffs unsloting bug, not dificulty on anything like that. Disgusting really, wich again shows what the whole DPS comunity is all about.
The share of the blame also falls on the demographic of the playerbase that refused to do anything about their builds even when it became evident they would not be able to remain where they were. That those around them would not have to carry them anymore.
Theres a whole lot of 'If things were like it was prior to DR' coming from the Anti-DPSers while conveniantly ignoring the fact that it was the DPS crowd that was carrying them through those PUGs to begin with. It was those DPSers that provided the Anti-DPSers the means and established protocol for these Queues.
You really think a guy who could careless about how terrible his build was would turn around and find the most effecient and effective manner of running these Queues? No it was the same people that bothered to figure out how their ships worked, how their consoles, weapons and gear worked that figured all of that out. If it werent for them it wouldnt of found its way onto the Wiki, people would still be floundering around in the old STFs.
The Anti-DPSers for all the whine and complaints they hurl in the direction of the DPS Crowd have the DPS crowd to thank for dragging their sorry ***es through those Queues and giving them the wins they would of never experienced without them.
Thats one of the most biggest horse manure post I've ever saw. Pre-DR, pugs completed in like 8-10 mins, maybe 12 mins, even without a DPSer in them. Again your are deluding yourself. You folks in-fact, as I do, should thank to those that came with the tactics like 10% rule in infected, or MRRMLL or RML rules for cure. Those actually provided the means and established the protocol for these Queues, way before even the DPS concept even existed.
Your only "merit" was to shift (and made the devs impose this ultimatly) the focus from tactics and team-work to self-player metrics, one of the worst thing could happen in a game, a multi-player game even
Well , if you wanted to post 100% pure BS , congrats ... , you've succeeded .
... just for the record , this game is 5 years old and the earliest DPS channel is over 1 year old at best -- which means that most of the older players have been " floundering around in the old STFs" for quite a bit of time ...
LOL. 1 year ago we shut down the old 5k, 8k, and 11k channels and replaced them with the 10k. To give you a clue, the 5k channel was created when 5k DPS was considered the top end DPS; that's how old it was.
DPS channels have been around for at least 2.5 years, going on 3 years or more.
Baconmaester is right, most of the knowledge that is floating around now comes from the all the DPS guys that tested and worked out how the game works.
Here's the irony, not too long ago i ran into a thread about the RP channel where they were recommending my skill builds and guides that i had either written or had a hand in creating.
Now the funny thing, that RP channel does the same thing the DPS channels do, they are a group of like minded players who form teams together; the only difference is the theme.
by your logic Aelfwin, you should be trolling them as well for segregating the community. Those guys are good and able play the content using teamwork and knowledge; they don't pug, they form their own teams... exactly what you've said you where against...
Lastly, how have you helped the community Aelfwin? Everyday i have people thanking me for my builds. videos, guides, and all the questions i have answered for them; every day. Ryan is the same way, same for Porchsong and the others.
Who have you helped? who is thanking you for giving back to the community?
I don't think people are claiming the dps min max crowd are all mean or elitist, but if they aren't, why do they feel the need to create Private channels for L337 DPSers?
We have the channels private for 3 reasons:
1. To qualify people so when they call out in the dps-50,000 channel, they can do 50k. If it were public, then a 2k'r could "x up" for a 50k run.
2. To make a goal for people to shoot for. And by people, I mean those who enjoy chasing dps as these are the "DPS" channels.
2. Because--and this is important, so read carefully--we are a bunch of selfish, arrogant, [insert derogatory term of the day], elitists who like to sit upon our monstrous DPS Mountain (think Zeus upon Mt. Olympus for visuals) and laugh at the clueless little scrubs, pugs, and noobs beneath us. Is it really that hard to understand?
I think I got #3 correct. Will some of the trolls please inform me if I need to modify and edit?
I don't think people are claiming the dps min max crowd are all mean or elitist, but if they aren't, why do they feel the need to create Private channels for L337 DPSers?
Not that someone would care to investigate, but there is an open-to-all dps-channel...
I don't think people are claiming the dps min max crowd are all mean or elitist, but if they aren't, why do they feel the need to create Private channels for L337 DPSers?
DPS-Public is, well public, the other channels are merely there as standards.
SCM - Infected(S) - DMG Out: 11,776,567 DPS: 114,224.70 (28.7% of Team) - Pinky@ukcaptain420 I reserve the right to have a completely different standpoint depending on my mood.
Your only "merit" was to shift (and made the devs impose this ultimatly) the focus from tactics and team-work to self-player metrics, one of the worst thing could happen in a game, a multi-player game even
Actually in pugs you now need more teamplay&tactics instead of less to complete. Even trinity -albeit still an idiotic concept- works now better than before. Unfortunately so many players fail to make the simpliest builds.
I likened DR after it launched to be a secret buff to the role of sciships, as basically those were (are) the single thing that can easily prevent a mission from failing.
It's great that elite has fail conditions. But, IMO, Normal would be just do the mission, and get it done (no fail options, no optionals), Advanced gives optionals as entirely new stuff, and elite makes those optionals (IMO, these should just be time-based, not other stuff, but whatever) mandatory, and introduces more optionals. (I also think you should have to have 5 completions of Normal to do Advanced, and 5 completions of Advanced with the optional to do Elite - account-wide, ideally) That gives you scaling difficulty and a learning curve, and helps to prevent people from warping into an Advanced or Elite queue without a clue. (or, if that's too easy, introduce time optionals in normal, make time mandatory in advanced and introduce new optionals (such as nanites not healing the transformer), and make time and those new ones mandatory in elite.
The current situation is more-or-less what you said. Normal introduces the optional as non-fail conditions, allowing the player to learn the queue in a 'safe' environment. Then in Advanced those optionals become mandatory, and additional non-fail optionals are added. Where there's an elite queue on top of that, Advanced's optionals become mandatory, and new optionals for bonus are introduced.
The problem, I find, is when players enter an Advanced queue and are either A) clearly not geared well enough (forget about DPS here - the eye test can verify what their ship is contributing to the battle), or have no idea what to actually do in the queue. To me, this is demonstrating that players aren't spending enough time in Normal to learns the ins and outs of a queue.
But I also recognize that that's not for everyone. While I do my best to provide information, you can't really reach pugs - they have to start looking themselves. And the fact that there's people without a clue is a shortfall of the tutorial and leveling system, and also a statement about the intuitiveness of the game design, but really, we have to accept that a lot of people don't perform well, and while I'm not going to suggest that they should have access to Elite queues, nor that most of them should have an easy time with Advanced.
I won't fault the tutorial heavily here. I think it does a great job of explaining the basics, and HUD, and so on. If there's room for improvement in the tutorial, it's to put in a part where the UI pop-ups show you where to find your advanced stats - not necessarily explain them all in depth, though, as I still feel that's on the player.
The share of the blame also falls on the demographic of the playerbase that refused to do anything about their builds even when it became evident they would not be able to remain where they were. That those around them would not have to carry them anymore.
With a level cap, players had to realize that the game was progressing, and they'd either have to adapt to keep up or be left behind.
As I said previously, I was plenty excited for the new challenges in DR, but knew fully that I'd have to put in some serious work to become good enough to play the new high-difficulty content. I didn't want to go into an Advanced queue and be carried - that's not fair to the other players in the pug. So I took the time to build up. But again, there is a sentiment among many players that the game should give them access to everything right away, and provide them with an instant-win just for showing up.
Though that is completely ignoring the issue that a way to big a part of the player base has no idea what sources of information are reliable or not, and I know from my own experience with helping people that if they're more casual players they tend to be worried about spending what resources they have on something that might not work (odds are they haven't been taught how to make resources efficiently either).
STO Wiki is great for mostly unbiased information, then there's the Academy section in the forum, and so on. The information is there, and those are two dev-approved / dev-supported information banks to pull from that are very easy to find. If players cannot find those sources of information - both of which will often show up in a Google search for any STO topic - then those players simply cannot be helped, as they are doing nothing to help themselves.
As for resource spending... yeah, that's a pain. But sometimes you just have to try it before you know if it works or not. Just last week I swapped out two 2pc sets in my build because it wasn't getting the results I wanted. It took time and it took some in-game resources, and I'm not actually done the upgrades on the near gear yet, but I'm also in no rush because I'm just going to keep on playing the game as I wait.
Pretty sure the concept of DPS has been around a while longer than the game even existed.
SCM - Infected(S) - DMG Out: 11,776,567 DPS: 114,224.70 (28.7% of Team) - Pinky@ukcaptain420 I reserve the right to have a completely different standpoint depending on my mood.
Well , if you wanted to post 100% pure BS , congrats ... , you've succeeded .
... just for the record , this game is 5 years old and the earliest DPS channel is over 1 year old at best -- which means that most of the older players have been " floundering around in the old STFs" for quite a bit of time ...
Sure...Cause your post is the epitomy of fact.
Ive been in this game since Beta and even then there was players aiming for better and better dps. Theyve always carried you aelfwin. Always.
Pretty sure the concept of DPS has been around a while longer than the game even existed.
Well since its pretty obvious at what I was refering to... pretty sure this is just a lame troll attempt, considering you were the troll I saw bit***ng in PESTF channel I was refering to in my previous post. The fine art of trolling is not strong in you, I am sorry to say it.
The fine art of trolling is not strong in you, I am sorry to say it.
That's because he happens to be a rather serious person who doesn't troll and as such isn't experienced in it, from what I've seen. Though, while you would seem to be the local expert on trolling, you're a bit too obvious yourself. Go refine your tactics on the PvP subforums, they're ripe for it today.
SCM - Crystal C. (S) - [00:12] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 8.63M(713.16K) - Fed Sci
Well since its pretty obvious at what I was refering to... pretty sure this is just a lame troll attempt, considering you were the troll I saw bit***ng in PESTF channel I was refering to in my previous post. The fine art of trolling is not strong in you, I am sorry to say it.
obvious is relative, and you've either mistaken me for someone else, or are indeed trolling yourself.
What my attempt was, if you're really interested in the inner workings of my mind, was a bump, this thread had fallen down a page and I picked your comment at random to quote.
SCM - Infected(S) - DMG Out: 11,776,567 DPS: 114,224.70 (28.7% of Team) - Pinky@ukcaptain420 I reserve the right to have a completely different standpoint depending on my mood.
Please let this horrible thread sink to the bottom of the brown, stained toilet bowl.
Unfortunately i think this is a floater.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
To give you a clue, the 5k channel was created when 5k DPS was considered the top end DPS; that's how old it was.
Thanks for the clue .
To return the favor , let's just say that I couldn't consider 5K DPS an actual D
PS channel as ppl were doing above that with stock weaponry on the non Fleet K'Tinga and Sovereign .
We may have differing opinions on what "top DPS" may have been in the MK X era, but back then there were more then one DPS parser programs and the results varied even more at times then they do today .
(and even today they're not an exact science)
Baconmaester is right, most of the knowledge that is floating around now comes from the all the DPS guys that tested and worked out how the game works.
Since someone else has mentioned this in this thread I can only note that you did not take credit for the 10% rule or RMMRL or RML, and by your silence you also dismissed the work that the PVP-ers did (possibly because they got more Dev interaction over the years then you did), or the guys who first cracked the original NWS .
My tip of the day for you is to "detect" why I am amused by you, Ryan, Porchsong and Baconwhatever on the same level as I am amused by the TV persona of Sheldon Cooper .
I'll give you a hint based on the zero credit you give to others as noted above :
A person who is a genius in one field, but is totally oblivious to what is going on around him on multiple levels, but that does not stop him from thinking (and showing) that he's the best thing ever, since ... ever .
I hope that was not too subtle a hint .
by your logic Aelfwin, you should be trolling them as well for segregating the community.
True and false .
It is true that the RP-ers often congregate privately but that's because :
a) there are several communities in STO , they are but one of them .
b) they have been often driven out of public social places by cyberbullies like the Dental and their ilk .
And it is false because the RP community has not (to my very limited knowledge) segregated their own sub-community based on DPS (like your efforts have done to SOME of the STF community) .
Neither have the PVP-ers, nor have the avid KDF or Romulan supporters , or the Foundry authors or any of the other sub-communities that exist in STO .
There is only ONE community that managed to tear itself apart based on numbers from a parser .
Can you guess which one it is?
I'm guessing that you can't because admitting that it happened would maybe force you to question your role in it .
Lucky for you DR came along and has seemingly proven you right -- as the "DPS is the right way" .
Sadly, that is about as right as Cryptic's "everything is awesome" is true ... .
Lastly, how have you helped the community Aelfwin? Everyday i have people thanking me for my builds. videos, guides, and all the questions i have answered for them; every day. Ryan is the same way, same for Porchsong and the others.
Who have you helped? who is thanking you for giving back to the community?
I don't single myself out in the way that you do sarcasm detector .
That's because in my eyes there is no difference between participating in a low DPS team and still achieving victory, to giving away sniper rifles to random strangers (back when those were needed in the long STF's), to participating in research for the original STOked vid podcast back in the day, to getting Gozer to notice and fix the "boy drones only" club that plagued the STF's for a while back in the day .
I guess there is other stuff but that's what I remember off hand , as I don't count not wanting any fleet rank or doing recruitment as something notable .
So like I said, I don't live for the gratitude of others .
In fact any such gratitude makes me feel uncomfortable and undeserving .
A job well done in my eyes is it's own award .
... I'm not sure that that is something someone as attention seeking like yourself can truly comprehend . I can only hope I'm wrong, but I guess I'll never know ...
LOL. 1 year ago we shut down the old 5k, 8k, and 11k channels and replaced them with the 10k. To give you a clue, the 5k channel was created when 5k DPS was considered the top end DPS; that's how old it was.
DPS channels have been around for at least 2.5 years, going on 3 years or more.
Baconmaester is right, most of the knowledge that is floating around now comes from the all the DPS guys that tested and worked out how the game works.
Here's the irony, not too long ago i ran into a thread about the RP channel where they were recommending my skill builds and guides that i had either written or had a hand in creating.
Now the funny thing, that RP channel does the same thing the DPS channels do, they are a group of like minded players who form teams together; the only difference is the theme.
by your logic Aelfwin, you should be trolling them as well for segregating the community. Those guys are good and able play the content using teamwork and knowledge; they don't pug, they form their own teams... exactly what you've said you where against...
Lastly, how have you helped the community Aelfwin? Everyday i have people thanking me for my builds. videos, guides, and all the questions i have answered for them; every day. Ryan is the same way, same for Porchsong and the others.
Who have you helped? who is thanking you for giving back to the community?
I remember when I first hit 30k, and I posted about, as to who I should contact, and you dissuaded me from joining, saying something to the effect of my tender nature possibly not being able to handle the rough environment of the DPS channels. Nothing could have been further from the truth! I *did* join, and ppl have been nothing but helpful and kind! Although the seriousness of the tone seems to increase in the higher-up echelons of the channels (I've only had a brief, pre-Pen fix peek into 50k to wit), I honesty find the atmosphere in the lower channels rather pleasant.
I've gotten personal advice, for sure; but learned a lot from simply listening to the heavy-weights, so to speak; like hearing Marshall talk about his torp boats, or N'Mej about his awesome Recluse build; or you, of course, talking about things I never even considered! Like why you slotted a dual Surgical Strikes, cuz Reciprocity starts to wear off when you're killing stuffz too fast, as it were (lack of sufficient aggro). Or your notion of slotting a regular beam in aft, after all, on a forward momentum based ship, cuz that aft beam, when you're positioned properly, is likely to find a target regardless. Yes, Zathras remembers!
And the good part is, you can always ask about complex matters. You can do that in ESD Zone too, of course, but in 30k I'm pretty much guaranteed to get an answer from someone who actually knows what they're doing.
And then I come here, ands see peeps spewing their vitrol over the 'Elitist' DPS channels. Wut?! That is the way of the world, though. Taylor Swift sang about it too: "People throw rocks at things that shine." Ay, that they do.
Since someone else has mentioned this in this thread I can only note that you did not take credit for the 10% rule or RMMRL or RML, and by your silence you also dismissed the work that the PVP-ers did (possibly because they got more Dev interaction over the years then you did), or the guys who first cracked the original NWS .
My tip of the day for you is to "detect" why I am amused by you, Ryan, Porchsong and Baconwhatever on the same level as I am amused by the TV persona of Sheldon Cooper .
I'll give you a hint based on the zero credit you give to others as noted above :
A person who is a genius in one field, but is totally oblivious to what is going on around him on multiple levels, but that does not stop him from thinking (and showing) that he's the best thing ever, since ... ever .
I hope that was not too subtle a hint .
Since you like clues, find this one for me: Who wrote most of this?
And, pray tell, where did said writers get that information?
Gee, I hope there's something there that you find remotely useful.
SCM - Crystal C. (S) - [00:12] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 8.63M(713.16K) - Fed Sci
And it is false because the RP community has not (to my very limited knowledge) segregated their own sub-community based on DPS (like your efforts have done to SOME of the STF community) .
Neither have the PVP-ers, nor have the avid KDF or Romulan supporters , or the Foundry authors or any of the other sub-communities that exist in STO .
There is only ONE community that managed to tear itself apart based on numbers from a parser .
Interesting, by your logic its not a problem to segregate, but how to segregate. So if I were to segregate of language, that wouldnt be a problem? Or by Ideology (Fashists united, communist forward)? Or by missions (Defera, Dyson, Ground/space...)? Its just a problem that we do it by a measureable contribution in the game?
That aside, we have a public channel, and all from the higher dps-chans are in the base-channel too. So its more like having the different teams of one club train together, and sometime exchange personal (as 75k-players join 10k too).
I really dont see your problem. If you dont like us, just stay away. It is that simple.
P.S.: For your analogy with the sniper-rifle: You give the starving fish. We teach them how to fish.
Since you like clues, find this one for me: Who wrote most of this?
I'm aware of that part of STOReddit , and even browsed it once or twice (only to find EP2W & FAW , and the packing of Engineering slots with anything but Engineering consoles to be a recurring theme) .
Thus my suggestion -- if ever you choose to reorganize the categories there , consider a "specialized team builds" VS "solo / good for general use / pugs" .
That way ppl won't take builds that require team synergy into pugs and get blown up repeatedly when they neither possess the teams healing support or the piloting skills of ... your clue from above .
Incidentally , with the boost to shield drain the Borg got , how are some of those non-neutronium shielded builds holding up ?
Interesting, by your logic its not a problem to segregate, but how to segregate. So if I were to segregate of language, that wouldn't be a problem?
I listed only a partial existing segregations that exist in the game .
And you're right , language based segregation exist too .
These are pre-existing segregations based on preferences .
I don't expect PVP-ers , Foundry folk and other sub-communities to like the game in the exact same manner .
And inhere lies the doozy : the Borg STF's (and my fleet) are pretty much what kept me in the game .
Thus I have always considered myself apart of the STF players .
The STF crowd is the only one that holds my interest (after the power creep killed PVP for me) .
As such ,I am more keenly aware of what I see as the judgemental attitudes (and the segregation that followed) that have taken a hold in what is essentially meant to be group play .
To me , "group play" and "you can't play with us because you don't have the X numbers" is ... , well it's kindergarten style choosing of team mates .
Don't be offended , I know that you are "epic" in your own eyes , soaring high above the rest .
You have my condolences .
And since I know that I'm talking to a wall , I'll just bring up another illustrative anecdote :
This segregation by (what some of you perceive is by numbers and others by talent or gear or whatever) is not the first of it's kind in STO .
The first one that I know of happened in PVP , where first good players were poached by certain fleets , and later on the issue of "premades" vs not premades dominated that sub-community's time table from time to time .
Long story short , two things emerged from that spectacle :
On one hand they lost a lot of players who "didn't make the cut" or were tiered of getting facerolled by premades .
Later on they lost more players (from the quality folk) who no longer saw STO as a challenge .
(I'm hearing of Sarcasmdetector soloing SB24 and I'm thinking "desperate search for challenge") .
You should probably read the above two lines again to connect the dots and to let it sink in .
On the bright side , the PVP community also had one positive thing happen to it (by their choice) .
Most of them stayed in touch via a single common chat -- and that single act was and is a hallmark of a true community .
Or to dumb it down for you : they talked to each other .
And that is the hallmark that is missing from the STF community in general (DPS channels included) .
We don't have a unifying commonality such as that .
Even in the DPS channels , communication goes one way -- down the numbers ladder .
Now by the numbers of LF1M that show up in PSTF , I'm guessing that despite the numbers you have registered on your channels , reality calls for rolling with a pug from time to time .
That's because despite Cryptic's fancy graphics , the STO community has been shrinking , and I think that one way or another , every sub-community in STO has been feeling this on and especially off "prime time" hours .
You guys honestly want to do something great for STO ?
Take a lesson from the PVP community where everyone can talk to one another by a single unifying channel , and build on that to reformat the STF sub-community into an inclusive rather then an exclusive community .
Do that and you'll earn my respect .
Keep pulling us apart based on external gaming programs , and you'll earn the exact opposite .
P.S.: For your analogy with the sniper-rifle: You give the starving fish. We teach them how to fish.
By helping the starving , I helped the whole team . Sorry you missed that , as that used to be kind of important when each Borg STF used to be over an hour long .
Plus , if they have jumped high enough to reach 10-30K DPS , they already know how to fish .
You just teach them to fish faster .
Not everyone thinks that faster = better .
There is a difference how people want to play and how people have to play. The latter is only an issue when you join for group content. There you should adapt to what I call 'play your level'. Don't bring an undergeared or low tier ship into the mission, but also be aware with your extreme high damage ship. I don't want to carry, because I just can go for solo content, but I also don't want to be carried. I think, most player will agree with me. It is a normal attitude.
What I don't like is in a post above mine here. It says, when you don't like us (high DPS'rs), stay away. That is a bit occupying. Why don't you stay away? Keep your talking about doing high DPS in the proper forum, the forum about builds. I was looking for ideas about making a high DPS build and went there. Nothing. There is a sticky in the PvE forum. Why is it there? It looks to me that you think that playing PvE is playing as you do; the only way and the only right way. It is not. If I seldom get killed and I get the enemy killed, I am doing fine.
Play as you like to play and play with who you like to play, but don't colonize the game.
I'm aware of that part of STOReddit , and even browsed it once or twice (only to find EP2W & FAW , and the packing of Engineering slots with anything but Engineering consoles to be a recurring theme) .
Thus my suggestion -- if ever you choose to reorganize the categories there , consider a "specialized team builds" VS "solo / good for general use / pugs" .
That way ppl won't take builds that require team synergy into pugs and get blown up repeatedly when they neither possess the teams healing support or the piloting skills of ... your clue from above .
Ahh yes. I forgot, I never pug, and most assurredly Jena never pugs. And the both of us, and Bagel, and all those other guys, never fly with groups that are open teaming with anyone who can join that channel. That's totally not a thing that happens. Redditchat is most distinctly not an open channel that we fly in. So thanks for remind me that our builds are only good for specialized runs with recluse nannies. Because otherwise I would have forgot and done something stupid like set my personal record without one. And Jena might have even done the same. That would be a horrible mistake of us, and it's totally not something that happened.
And I also forgot the part of this where, first of all, using EPTW and FAW is bad, and secondly, Ialsoforgotthepartwhereeverygoodbuildincludingthosebyourveteranbuildersarejustabunchoffawbuilds. (LinksfromexpertbuilderscontinuedAnd okay I'm bored of that now. I have spent several hours talking with the people who submitted those builds, and know that they know very well what they're doing in a ship. And that's not covering the drain builds, the tank builds, the healers, the people who mix beams and torps, the math done on torps there, and etc. How terrible of us for knowing what ideal build paths are and using them a lot. How dare us.
SCM - Crystal C. (S) - [00:12] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 8.63M(713.16K) - Fed Sci
There is a difference how people want to play and how people have to play. The latter is only an issue when you join for group content. There you should adapt to what I call 'play your level'. Don't bring an undergeared or low tier ship into the mission, but also be aware with your extreme high damage ship. I don't want to carry, because I just can go for solo content, but I also don't want to be carried. I think, most player will agree with me. It is a normal attitude.
What I don't like is in a post above mine here. It says, when you don't like us (high DPS'rs), stay away. That is a bit occupying. Why don't you stay away? Keep your talking about doing high DPS in the proper forum, the forum about builds. I was looking for ideas about making a high DPS build and went there. Nothing. There is a sticky in the PvE forum. Why is it there? It looks to me that you think that playing PvE is playing as you do; the only way and the only right way. It is not. If I seldom get killed and I get the enemy killed, I am doing fine.
Play as you like to play and play with who you like to play, but don't colonize the game.
If you know the communities in the game, those 2 posters above you aint DPSers nor they are a member of the DPS channel.
They are frequent trollers and PvPers who has been trolling DPS channels that is if you even read their troll posts. They have also been trying to destroy the DPS channel community by trolling and putting non factual posts.
if you want to search High DPS builds in the STO Forums, there are. Except you got to dig through what those High DPSers have posted in the forums. Based on memory, I can tell you of around most recent 4-5 high DPSers builds and members of the DPS channels at the STO forum and a bit of high DPS ground build. 2 of those were even tanks which was posted not more than one month ago.
If you don't like player segregation then stop segregating yourself. Join the dps community. And all the other communities.
People tend to go play with people of similar goals and motives. They choose how they want to play and they go there. If a person chooses they don't want to participate in a particular playstyle then they choose not to play with those communities.
If you don't like player segregation then stop segregating yourself. Join the dps community. And all the other communities.
People tend to go play with people of similar goals and motives. They choose how they want to play and they go there. If a person chooses they don't want to participate in a particular playstyle then they choose not to play with those communities.
Now you're again implying that NOT joining the "DPS" community is segregating.
On the contrary, why care about dps if you win? what friggin difference is there?
Those who DON'T care about dps are more inclusive, as we don't care if you do 100k dps or 2k dps so long as you play well, interact nicely with other players, and otherwise be a good person.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
Comments
The share of the blame also falls on the demographic of the playerbase that refused to do anything about their builds even when it became evident they would not be able to remain where they were. That those around them would not have to carry them anymore.
Theres a whole lot of 'If things were like it was prior to DR' coming from the Anti-DPSers while conveniantly ignoring the fact that it was the DPS crowd that was carrying them through those PUGs to begin with. It was those DPSers that provided the Anti-DPSers the means and established protocol for these Queues.
You really think a guy who could careless about how terrible his build was would turn around and find the most effecient and effective manner of running these Queues? No it was the same people that bothered to figure out how their ships worked, how their consoles, weapons and gear worked that figured all of that out. If it werent for them it wouldnt of found its way onto the Wiki, people would still be floundering around in the old STFs.
The Anti-DPSers for all the whine and complaints they hurl in the direction of the DPS Crowd have the DPS crowd to thank for dragging their sorry ***es through those Queues and giving them the wins they would of never experienced without them.
Though that is completely ignoring the issue that a way to big a part of the player base has no idea what sources of information are reliable or not, and I know from my own experience with helping people that if they're more casual players they tend to be worried about spending what resources they have on something that might not work (odds are they haven't been taught how to make resources efficiently either).
Well , if you wanted to post 100% pure BS , congrats ... , you've succeeded .
... just for the record , this game is 5 years old and the earliest DPS channel is over 1 year old at best -- which means that most of the older players have been " floundering around in the old STFs" for quite a bit of time ...
Thats one of the most biggest horse manure post I've ever saw. Pre-DR, pugs completed in like 8-10 mins, maybe 12 mins, even without a DPSer in them. Again your are deluding yourself. You folks in-fact, as I do, should thank to those that came with the tactics like 10% rule in infected, or MRRMLL or RML rules for cure. Those actually provided the means and established the protocol for these Queues, way before even the DPS concept even existed.
Your only "merit" was to shift (and made the devs impose this ultimatly) the focus from tactics and team-work to self-player metrics, one of the worst thing could happen in a game, a multi-player game even
LOL. 1 year ago we shut down the old 5k, 8k, and 11k channels and replaced them with the 10k. To give you a clue, the 5k channel was created when 5k DPS was considered the top end DPS; that's how old it was.
DPS channels have been around for at least 2.5 years, going on 3 years or more.
Baconmaester is right, most of the knowledge that is floating around now comes from the all the DPS guys that tested and worked out how the game works.
Here's the irony, not too long ago i ran into a thread about the RP channel where they were recommending my skill builds and guides that i had either written or had a hand in creating.
Now the funny thing, that RP channel does the same thing the DPS channels do, they are a group of like minded players who form teams together; the only difference is the theme.
by your logic Aelfwin, you should be trolling them as well for segregating the community. Those guys are good and able play the content using teamwork and knowledge; they don't pug, they form their own teams... exactly what you've said you where against...
Lastly, how have you helped the community Aelfwin? Everyday i have people thanking me for my builds. videos, guides, and all the questions i have answered for them; every day. Ryan is the same way, same for Porchsong and the others.
Who have you helped? who is thanking you for giving back to the community?
We have the channels private for 3 reasons:
1. To qualify people so when they call out in the dps-50,000 channel, they can do 50k. If it were public, then a 2k'r could "x up" for a 50k run.
2. To make a goal for people to shoot for. And by people, I mean those who enjoy chasing dps as these are the "DPS" channels.
2. Because--and this is important, so read carefully--we are a bunch of selfish, arrogant, [insert derogatory term of the day], elitists who like to sit upon our monstrous DPS Mountain (think Zeus upon Mt. Olympus for visuals) and laugh at the clueless little scrubs, pugs, and noobs beneath us. Is it really that hard to understand?
I think I got #3 correct. Will some of the trolls please inform me if I need to modify and edit?
DPS Channels / League Info (STO Forums)
Not that someone would care to investigate, but there is an open-to-all dps-channel...
DPS-Public is, well public, the other channels are merely there as standards.
I reserve the right to have a completely different standpoint depending on my mood.
Actually in pugs you now need more teamplay&tactics instead of less to complete. Even trinity -albeit still an idiotic concept- works now better than before. Unfortunately so many players fail to make the simpliest builds.
I likened DR after it launched to be a secret buff to the role of sciships, as basically those were (are) the single thing that can easily prevent a mission from failing.
The current situation is more-or-less what you said. Normal introduces the optional as non-fail conditions, allowing the player to learn the queue in a 'safe' environment. Then in Advanced those optionals become mandatory, and additional non-fail optionals are added. Where there's an elite queue on top of that, Advanced's optionals become mandatory, and new optionals for bonus are introduced.
The problem, I find, is when players enter an Advanced queue and are either A) clearly not geared well enough (forget about DPS here - the eye test can verify what their ship is contributing to the battle), or
I won't fault the tutorial heavily here. I think it does a great job of explaining the basics, and HUD, and so on. If there's room for improvement in the tutorial, it's to put in a part where the UI pop-ups show you where to find your advanced stats - not necessarily explain them all in depth, though, as I still feel that's on the player.
With a level cap, players had to realize that the game was progressing, and they'd either have to adapt to keep up or be left behind.
As I said previously, I was plenty excited for the new challenges in DR, but knew fully that I'd have to put in some serious work to become good enough to play the new high-difficulty content. I didn't want to go into an Advanced queue and be carried - that's not fair to the other players in the pug. So I took the time to build up. But again, there is a sentiment among many players that the game should give them access to everything right away, and provide them with an instant-win just for showing up.
STO Wiki is great for mostly unbiased information, then there's the Academy section in the forum, and so on. The information is there, and those are two dev-approved / dev-supported information banks to pull from that are very easy to find. If players cannot find those sources of information - both of which will often show up in a Google search for any STO topic - then those players simply cannot be helped, as they are doing nothing to help themselves.
As for resource spending... yeah, that's a pain. But sometimes you just have to try it before you know if it works or not. Just last week I swapped out two 2pc sets in my build because it wasn't getting the results I wanted. It took time and it took some in-game resources, and I'm not actually done the upgrades on the near gear yet, but I'm also in no rush because I'm just going to keep on playing the game as I wait.
Pretty sure the concept of DPS has been around a while longer than the game even existed.
I reserve the right to have a completely different standpoint depending on my mood.
Sure...Cause your post is the epitomy of fact.
Ive been in this game since Beta and even then there was players aiming for better and better dps. Theyve always carried you aelfwin. Always.
Well since its pretty obvious at what I was refering to... pretty sure this is just a lame troll attempt, considering you were the troll I saw bit***ng in PESTF channel I was refering to in my previous post. The fine art of trolling is not strong in you, I am sorry to say it.
That's because he happens to be a rather serious person who doesn't troll and as such isn't experienced in it, from what I've seen. Though, while you would seem to be the local expert on trolling, you're a bit too obvious yourself. Go refine your tactics on the PvP subforums, they're ripe for it today.
SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
Tacs are overrated.
Game's best wiki
Build questions? Look here!
obvious is relative, and you've either mistaken me for someone else, or are indeed trolling yourself.
What my attempt was, if you're really interested in the inner workings of my mind, was a bump, this thread had fallen down a page and I picked your comment at random to quote.
I reserve the right to have a completely different standpoint depending on my mood.
Free Tibet!
Unfortunately i think this is a floater.
Good ... , good ... , keep up with the 100% BS .
... oh wait, you're about to drop some proof ... :rolleyes:
Thanks for the clue .
To return the favor , let's just say that I couldn't consider 5K DPS an actual D PS channel as ppl were doing above that with stock weaponry on the non Fleet K'Tinga and Sovereign .
We may have differing opinions on what "top DPS" may have been in the MK X era, but back then there were more then one DPS parser programs and the results varied even more at times then they do today .
(and even today they're not an exact science)
Since someone else has mentioned this in this thread I can only note that you did not take credit for the 10% rule or RMMRL or RML, and by your silence you also dismissed the work that the PVP-ers did (possibly because they got more Dev interaction over the years then you did), or the guys who first cracked the original NWS .
My tip of the day for you is to "detect" why I am amused by you, Ryan, Porchsong and Baconwhatever on the same level as I am amused by the TV persona of Sheldon Cooper .
I'll give you a hint based on the zero credit you give to others as noted above :
A person who is a genius in one field, but is totally oblivious to what is going on around him on multiple levels, but that does not stop him from thinking (and showing) that he's the best thing ever, since ... ever .
I hope that was not too subtle a hint .
True and false .
It is true that the RP-ers often congregate privately but that's because :
a) there are several communities in STO , they are but one of them .
b) they have been often driven out of public social places by cyberbullies like the Dental and their ilk .
And it is false because the RP community has not (to my very limited knowledge) segregated their own sub-community based on DPS (like your efforts have done to SOME of the STF community) .
Neither have the PVP-ers, nor have the avid KDF or Romulan supporters , or the Foundry authors or any of the other sub-communities that exist in STO .
There is only ONE community that managed to tear itself apart based on numbers from a parser .
Can you guess which one it is?
I'm guessing that you can't because admitting that it happened would maybe force you to question your role in it .
Lucky for you DR came along and has seemingly proven you right -- as the "DPS is the right way" .
Sadly, that is about as right as Cryptic's "everything is awesome" is true ... .
I don't single myself out in the way that you do sarcasm detector .
That's because in my eyes there is no difference between participating in a low DPS team and still achieving victory, to giving away sniper rifles to random strangers (back when those were needed in the long STF's), to participating in research for the original STOked vid podcast back in the day, to getting Gozer to notice and fix the "boy drones only" club that plagued the STF's for a while back in the day .
I guess there is other stuff but that's what I remember off hand , as I don't count not wanting any fleet rank or doing recruitment as something notable .
So like I said, I don't live for the gratitude of others .
In fact any such gratitude makes me feel uncomfortable and undeserving .
A job well done in my eyes is it's own award .
... I'm not sure that that is something someone as attention seeking like yourself can truly comprehend . I can only hope I'm wrong, but I guess I'll never know ...
I remember when I first hit 30k, and I posted about, as to who I should contact, and you dissuaded me from joining, saying something to the effect of my tender nature possibly not being able to handle the rough environment of the DPS channels.
I've gotten personal advice, for sure; but learned a lot from simply listening to the heavy-weights, so to speak; like hearing Marshall talk about his torp boats, or N'Mej about his awesome Recluse build; or you, of course, talking about things I never even considered! Like why you slotted a dual Surgical Strikes, cuz Reciprocity starts to wear off when you're killing stuffz too fast, as it were (lack of sufficient aggro). Or your notion of slotting a regular beam in aft, after all, on a forward momentum based ship, cuz that aft beam, when you're positioned properly, is likely to find a target regardless. Yes, Zathras remembers!
And the good part is, you can always ask about complex matters. You can do that in ESD Zone too, of course, but in 30k I'm pretty much guaranteed to get an answer from someone who actually knows what they're doing.
And then I come here, ands see peeps spewing their vitrol over the 'Elitist' DPS channels. Wut?! That is the way of the world, though. Taylor Swift sang about it too: "People throw rocks at things that shine." Ay, that they do.
Since you like clues, find this one for me: Who wrote most of this?
And, pray tell, where did said writers get that information?
Gee, I hope there's something there that you find remotely useful.
SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
Tacs are overrated.
Game's best wiki
Build questions? Look here!
Interesting, by your logic its not a problem to segregate, but how to segregate. So if I were to segregate of language, that wouldnt be a problem? Or by Ideology (Fashists united, communist forward)? Or by missions (Defera, Dyson, Ground/space...)? Its just a problem that we do it by a measureable contribution in the game?
That aside, we have a public channel, and all from the higher dps-chans are in the base-channel too. So its more like having the different teams of one club train together, and sometime exchange personal (as 75k-players join 10k too).
I really dont see your problem. If you dont like us, just stay away. It is that simple.
P.S.: For your analogy with the sniper-rifle: You give the starving fish. We teach them how to fish.
I'm aware of that part of STOReddit , and even browsed it once or twice (only to find EP2W & FAW , and the packing of Engineering slots with anything but Engineering consoles to be a recurring theme) .
Thus my suggestion -- if ever you choose to reorganize the categories there , consider a "specialized team builds" VS "solo / good for general use / pugs" .
That way ppl won't take builds that require team synergy into pugs and get blown up repeatedly when they neither possess the teams healing support or the piloting skills of ... your clue from above .
Incidentally , with the boost to shield drain the Borg got , how are some of those non-neutronium shielded builds holding up ?
I listed only a partial existing segregations that exist in the game .
And you're right , language based segregation exist too .
These are pre-existing segregations based on preferences .
I don't expect PVP-ers , Foundry folk and other sub-communities to like the game in the exact same manner .
And inhere lies the doozy : the Borg STF's (and my fleet) are pretty much what kept me in the game .
Thus I have always considered myself apart of the STF players .
The STF crowd is the only one that holds my interest (after the power creep killed PVP for me) .
As such ,I am more keenly aware of what I see as the judgemental attitudes (and the segregation that followed) that have taken a hold in what is essentially meant to be group play .
To me , "group play" and "you can't play with us because you don't have the X numbers" is ... , well it's kindergarten style choosing of team mates .
Don't be offended , I know that you are "epic" in your own eyes , soaring high above the rest .
You have my condolences .
And since I know that I'm talking to a wall , I'll just bring up another illustrative anecdote :
This segregation by (what some of you perceive is by numbers and others by talent or gear or whatever) is not the first of it's kind in STO .
The first one that I know of happened in PVP , where first good players were poached by certain fleets , and later on the issue of "premades" vs not premades dominated that sub-community's time table from time to time .
Long story short , two things emerged from that spectacle :
On one hand they lost a lot of players who "didn't make the cut" or were tiered of getting facerolled by premades .
Later on they lost more players (from the quality folk) who no longer saw STO as a challenge .
(I'm hearing of Sarcasmdetector soloing SB24 and I'm thinking "desperate search for challenge") .
You should probably read the above two lines again to connect the dots and to let it sink in .
On the bright side , the PVP community also had one positive thing happen to it (by their choice) .
Most of them stayed in touch via a single common chat -- and that single act was and is a hallmark of a true community .
Or to dumb it down for you : they talked to each other .
And that is the hallmark that is missing from the STF community in general (DPS channels included) .
We don't have a unifying commonality such as that .
Even in the DPS channels , communication goes one way -- down the numbers ladder .
Now by the numbers of LF1M that show up in PSTF , I'm guessing that despite the numbers you have registered on your channels , reality calls for rolling with a pug from time to time .
That's because despite Cryptic's fancy graphics , the STO community has been shrinking , and I think that one way or another , every sub-community in STO has been feeling this on and especially off "prime time" hours .
You guys honestly want to do something great for STO ?
Take a lesson from the PVP community where everyone can talk to one another by a single unifying channel , and build on that to reformat the STF sub-community into an inclusive rather then an exclusive community .
Do that and you'll earn my respect .
Keep pulling us apart based on external gaming programs , and you'll earn the exact opposite .
By helping the starving , I helped the whole team . Sorry you missed that , as that used to be kind of important when each Borg STF used to be over an hour long .
Plus , if they have jumped high enough to reach 10-30K DPS , they already know how to fish .
You just teach them to fish faster .
Not everyone thinks that faster = better .
... you're welcome to disagree ...
What I don't like is in a post above mine here. It says, when you don't like us (high DPS'rs), stay away. That is a bit occupying. Why don't you stay away? Keep your talking about doing high DPS in the proper forum, the forum about builds. I was looking for ideas about making a high DPS build and went there. Nothing. There is a sticky in the PvE forum. Why is it there? It looks to me that you think that playing PvE is playing as you do; the only way and the only right way. It is not. If I seldom get killed and I get the enemy killed, I am doing fine.
Play as you like to play and play with who you like to play, but don't colonize the game.
Ahh yes. I forgot, I never pug, and most assurredly Jena never pugs. And the both of us, and Bagel, and all those other guys, never fly with groups that are open teaming with anyone who can join that channel. That's totally not a thing that happens. Redditchat is most distinctly not an open channel that we fly in. So thanks for remind me that our builds are only good for specialized runs with recluse nannies. Because otherwise I would have forgot and done something stupid like set my personal record without one. And Jena might have even done the same. That would be a horrible mistake of us, and it's totally not something that happened.
And I also forgot the part of this where, first of all, using EPTW and FAW is bad, and secondly, I also forgot the part where every good build including those by our veteran builders are just a bunch of faw builds. (Links from expert builders continued And okay I'm bored of that now. I have spent several hours talking with the people who submitted those builds, and know that they know very well what they're doing in a ship. And that's not covering the drain builds, the tank builds, the healers, the people who mix beams and torps, the math done on torps there, and etc. How terrible of us for knowing what ideal build paths are and using them a lot. How dare us.
SCM - Hive (S) - [02:31] DMG(DPS) - @jarvisandalfred: 30.62M(204.66K) - Fed Sci
Tacs are overrated.
Game's best wiki
Build questions? Look here!
If you know the communities in the game, those 2 posters above you aint DPSers nor they are a member of the DPS channel.
They are frequent trollers and PvPers who has been trolling DPS channels that is if you even read their troll posts. They have also been trying to destroy the DPS channel community by trolling and putting non factual posts.
if you want to search High DPS builds in the STO Forums, there are. Except you got to dig through what those High DPSers have posted in the forums. Based on memory, I can tell you of around most recent 4-5 high DPSers builds and members of the DPS channels at the STO forum and a bit of high DPS ground build. 2 of those were even tanks which was posted not more than one month ago.
If you don't like player segregation then stop segregating yourself. Join the dps community. And all the other communities.
People tend to go play with people of similar goals and motives. They choose how they want to play and they go there. If a person chooses they don't want to participate in a particular playstyle then they choose not to play with those communities.
Now you're again implying that NOT joining the "DPS" community is segregating.
On the contrary, why care about dps if you win? what friggin difference is there?
Those who DON'T care about dps are more inclusive, as we don't care if you do 100k dps or 2k dps so long as you play well, interact nicely with other players, and otherwise be a good person.
"He shall be my finest warrior, this generic man who was forced upon me.
Like a badass I shall make him look, and in the furnace of war I shall forge him.
he shall be of iron will and steely sinew.
In great armour I shall clad him and with the mightiest weapons he shall be armed.
He will be untouched by plague or disease; no sickness shall blight him.
He shall have such tactics, strategies and machines that no foe will best him in battle.
He is my answer to cryptic logic, he is the Defender of my Romulan Crew.
He is Tovan Khev... and he shall know no fear."
No I'm implying that communities exist to strive for a particular goal. People segregate themselves.