I like the idea but it's very arcade for the moment. The feeling of being in outer space is still missing. The whole universe is cramped together to the point that everything is within one slipstream jump away. On tribble it's not that crowded, but when this goes to holodeck, it will.
Not sure I'm following here. We have not added Stations everywhere. As with the systems in the game, for the most part they are systems (stations) that have relevance to some story/mission in game.
My point was twofold :
1) you can use space stations (or other things) as "markers" or "waymarker posts" to signal to the player where he is .
2) as to the highlighted segment -- STO actually features very-very few space stations in STO .
The shows had a vast list of Federation starbases , and STO has close to none of that . I'm not saying that these should be starbases to beam to and visit , all I'm saying is that their "miniature forms" could show up in Sector Space maps and be used as "markers" of sorts so that the players can use them as reference points while navigating the new larger maps .
I also noted that these "waymarker posts"need not all be space stations .
They can be nebulas , or remnant of a star system , or asteroid fields , or locations of certain ship groups like the Seventh_Fleet as a stationary or in fleet exercise (there are other task forces / fleets such as Second Fleet , Third Fleet , Fifth Fleet , Sixth Fleet , Seventh Fleet , Ninth Fleet , Tenth Fleet) just like we have the New Romulan Fleet in TD .
The "items" above can be used not just as proverbial sign posts but for additional decoration as well , perhaps to replace some of the freighters that you see in sector space (of which you see relatively a lot) .
While Nebulae are present throughout the quadrants, we don't want those to be visible from across the galaxy. I don't think that would accomplish what you're looking for anyway.
I never said that they should be visible across the galaxy .
Remember the ... (I don't want to say excuse ., but I'll say excuse) that your company used to pull the star clusters ? "players got lost" was used there and with the (stated) 7-8 minutes it takes to fly across the new map , some new players might very well feel lost .
"Markers" or "waymarker posts" will help them as well to adjust .
If I'm near Risa, and I can see The Briar Patch ahead of me, I know that I'm pointed South East, for instance.
Yupp , that's the sort of recognition I was talking about , exactly .
Are you talking about the stars in the background? Those do not change as you move about the quadrant, no. Remember that we are not showing you the full quadrant. You are in a few sectors which are all in pretty much the same area of the galaxy. That means that the Galactic Core is in the same direction (within a couple of degrees) no matter where you go through the Alpha/Beta Quadrants.
Yes , I was talking about the background , specifically this bit of it .
Now I'm not sure if that is what you refer to as "the Galactic Core" , but if it is , then that should be visible from the Northern edges of the Alpha & Beta quadrants , but not from all the way from Klingon teritorry (if you want to keep in line with your own supposition that objects that are very far should not be visible across the whole map) .
The Nexus is not what's in the background of the Azure Nebula, that was one of our artists making something like a subspace tear (can't remember offhand) but it was never meant to be the Nexus.
Hate to tell you this but while that idea is sound (in relation to the Tholians and their cross-dimensional antics) -- almost everybody I know saw that and said -- Nexus .
You're wrong.
Ofcourse I am .
... space time would contort itself into a shape of a bagel before winking out of existance if it were otherwise ...
I've noticed some of the star clusters are missing their doff missions, Rolor and Betreka so far, which I've submitted bug reports on, otherwise it looks like a wholly positive change for the game, which considering the ongoing mess with DR is a good change of pace.
Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. - Euripides
I no longer do any Bug Hunting work for Cryptic. I may resume if a serious attempt to fix the game is made.
What I don't get is why the Mutara sector and Mutara nebula is deep in Borg space (especially now since it can only be accessed via the transwarp gate), when Kirk's Enterprise managed to get there quite fast: The Genesis planet which was created from the nebula was reached within hours in ST3 TSFS. This brings me to the next issue, what is the nebula actually doing in the game? It was destroyed/transformed when the Genesis device detonated in ST2 TWOK. I know the nebula doesn't currently have any role in the game, but as a fan of the original series movies, it... doesn't sit well with me.
Now as I can see from the new map, while the transwarp gate was removed, the Mutara sector still lies far beyond Romulan space. I think Romulans would have noticed if the Enterprise and the Reliant were to cross their space to get there.
What I don't get is why the Mutara sector and Mutara nebula is deep in Borg space (especially now since it can only be accessed via the transwarp gate), when Kirk's Enterprise managed to get there quite fast: The Genesis planet which was created from the nebula was reached within hours in ST3 TSFS. This brings me to the next issue, what is the nebula actually doing in the game? It was destroyed/transformed when the Genesis device detonated in ST2 TWOK. I know the nebula doesn't currently have any role in the game, but as a fan of the original series movies, it... doesn't sit well with me.
Now as I can see from the new map, while the transwarp gate was removed, the Mutara sector still lies far beyond Romulan space. I think Romulans would have noticed if the Enterprise and the Reliant were to cross their space to get there.
An easy way round the Mutara Nebula issue is to mention in its information box when near it that it is just another different Mutara class nebula, and not the one that Kirk fought in. Saying that, it'd be neat if the static discharges/flashes were somehow visible on the nebula.
Another unrelated issue; is there going to be an update to Diplomatic Immunity, since it's losing some of its benefit from this update as we're now able to freely travel between the Federation's home sector and the Klingon Empire's now.
Alpha and Beta Quadrants are separated by the Traffic Controller contact, the same way all of the old sectors were. So you'll fly up to the border of the sector and then click to warp to the other map
Still thinking how you Warp in sector space, aren't you in Warp already?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I've been watching. Those chairs aren't just right...
An easy way round the Mutara Nebula issue is to mention in its information box when near it that it is just another different Mutara class nebula, and not the one that Kirk fought in.
Yes, I remember that episode in VOY which introduced "Mutara class nebula" and that could work if it wasn't for the fact that it is Mutara sector and McCoy in St3 TSFS clearly stated he wanted to go to the Genesis planet in the Mutara sector. Therefore a different "in-universe" explanation would be needed.
What I don't get is why the Mutara sector and Mutara nebula is deep in Borg space (especially now since it can only be accessed via the transwarp gate), when Kirk's Enterprise managed to get there quite fast: The Genesis planet which was created from the nebula was reached within hours in ST3 TSFS. This brings me to the next issue, what is the nebula actually doing in the game? It was destroyed/transformed when the Genesis device detonated in ST2 TWOK. I know the nebula doesn't currently have any role in the game, but as a fan of the original series movies, it... doesn't sit well with me.
Now as I can see from the new map, while the transwarp gate was removed, the Mutara sector still lies far beyond Romulan space. I think Romulans would have noticed if the Enterprise and the Reliant were to cross their space to get there.
It was said, either in the Dev blog or somewhere in this thread, that certain systems and objects - such as the Mutara Nebula and the the Cestus System - would be out of place due to the new map they have used as canon for STO (Star Trek: Star Charts). I have this book and as mentioned, either in the Dev blog or somewhere in this thread, the Nebula - and Cestus - are about 10 sectors "south" of Klingon space.
I agree with this about Mutara, Cestus, and Nimbus. As for the Bassen Rift, in STO they call it the "Great Bloom" unfortunately the mission that said that was removed with the revamp of the Romulan arc.
The term "Great Bloom" was originally coined in the second Titan novel The Red King. Basically, the destruction of the Scimitar caused a lingering subspace anomaly that sort of resembled a great bloom.
In the novel the anomaly flung the Titan into one of the Magellanic clouds.
Yes, I remember that episode in VOY which introduced "Mutara class nebula" and that could work if it wasn't for the fact that it is Mutara sector and McCoy in St3 TSFS clearly stated he wanted to go to the Genesis planet in the Mutara sector. Therefore a different "in-universe" explanation would be needed.
Except in-game on Tribble the Mutara Nebula is in the Vorn Sector. So it clearly isn't the same place anymore: http://i.imgur.com/AyJtgMy.jpg
I'm pretty sure you will still have the option to manually change intances. So if any of what you just mentioned is going on then just simply move to a less / more populated instance.
You can only chance to an instance if it has been created and that will only do any good if one of those instances is quieter than the one you are leaving.
wooo!hooo! that will be awsome will it be on trible soon?
It is on tribble and has been for several days. It's nifty and it seems stable enough, but a ghost town. However, with that said tribble just isn't a decent test anymore. Hardly anyone uses it. As is par for the course nowadays, the real test will be when it goes live.
Shouldn't the blue Federation color be leaking into the yellow-green Cardassian space since, according to STO lore, Bajor officially joined the Federation in 2393?
I expect after the Dominion War, the Federation continued to expand its territory while the Cardassians either froze what they had prior to the war or gave up some territory due to post-war concessions after their surrender.
Hopefully 'no'. While he books were a great read, like the JJ movies they exist in an alternate reality where Cryptic doesn't have to license them.
Really. The DON'T.
Erm, but they have several characters and references to the novels already. Mackenzie Calhoun is on K-7, and the Ent-F's counselor is from the novels, she even references her replacing Ezri on DS9 when she went and joined the Aventine.
This one really doesn't count since he is a character from TOS, but Leonard James Akaar being a full Admiral is also in the novels. Though how he looks in STO looks a lot like how he does on novel covers.
But as you said, STO is in an alternate timeline from the novels so they can do their own thing.
Shouldn't the blue Federation color be leaking into the yellow-green Cardassian space since, according to STO lore, Bajor officially joined the Federation in 2393?
I expect after the Dominion War, the Federation continued to expand its territory while the Cardassians either froze what they had prior to the war or gave up some territory due to post-war concessions after their surrender.
That's exactly what I've been saying. You could argue that Bajor is below or above Cardassian space but just looks like it's in Cardassian space.
Good god, can we please do something about rubber-banding & disconnects? I like the idea of this update, but seriously, if you guys released a season with nothing but bug fixes and stability fixes--that would be the best season ever. It's currently 6PM CET, and I can't even connect, the lag is so bad.
That's a mistake on my part. I'm sorry, there are over 300 systems to keep track of, and I mistook one 'J' system for another 'J' system that is very nearby.
The Dyson Gateway is in the Jouret System, as before.
Looks great Taco. Just one question...
WHEN?
" Experience is a hard mistress, she gives the tests first, and the lessons after... "
The change to seamless and improved sector space is an excellent and welcome one. Positive feedback is flowing in, and rightly so. Way to update a vital piece of the already-great Star Trek Online!
Oft-repeated suggestions that deserve more repetition:
Consider the sector space two-doors approach for Earth to be accessed and visible from both Beta and Alpha Quadrant. It's sensible and we both know you just won't hear the end of this minor canon detail unless some compromise is found.
Publicize--with special event excitement and intensity--and get to the remaining, most at large bug-fixes. Start with a top-25 list with older, crippling issues taking priority. Replace or update the in-game feedback mechanism to favor usefulness to developers.
Enable PVP-centric players with multiple new Ker'rat- and Capture/Hold-like areas to appease the min-maxer crowd...and maybe grow it some by competing against external PVP gaming options. Free-for-all PVP zones would be best, perhaps with Fleet reinforcement options (see below).
Continue large-scale PVE story areas, but include PVP friendly areas therein for ground and space.
Remove the 1-shot vaporizing capability during space PVP (controversial, I know). Replace with 1-shots capped-at-90%-target-HP, and for diversion simultaneously add the PVP zones.
Insulate game meta better by seeking revenue from sources other than new ships and lock boxes. Ship performance does not need to shift every season, to endless power creep and in spite of gameplay consistency expectations. Instead, maybe give the PVP'rs, predator-pilots, and min-maxers something to do with themselves.
Perhaps the era of can't-gank-certain-maps-without-zen-unlocks could allow limited access to go hunt in otherwise "safe" zones. You might increase PVE rewards with victim-exclusive defensives-focused equipment to compensate PVE-centric players for their sacrifices. High risk, high reward. Allow full access to fleet reinforcement items and a new "fleet help" button to give all fleet-mates the access option (up to ~5 cap) to transwarp in instantaneously (15k proximity) to defend. Pit fleet groups against aggressors.
And allow fleets (huge dilithium/zen cost) to surprise attack other equal-tier fleet starbases--perhaps only vulnerable when 10 fleet members are available to warp in and defend as a team--with starbase defenses blazing (another legit grind or zen opportunity).
Gameplay evolution itself can be at a slower rate: piling specializations onto crafting onto traits onto reputations at the speed of Cryptic development is tiresome to keep up with.
Generally, less raw gotta-keep-up grind, and more free-play and risk of losing something tangible (10 unrefined dilithium per death-by-player; or a default universal buff for a while) but small, whilst bringing lesser ships gradually back up to par with new ones.
Anyway, there are good ideas out there to mull.
Meanwhile, I think it's safe to say the player base is looking forward to Season 10! Naysayers create nothing but negativity, and meanwhile Cryptic impresses once again.
Thankyou for finally openeing up and merging the maps as it should be. Just looking @ the pre-map you have available it already feels like a vast amount of space to cover without the burden of wondering, "what the hell was between the space before the Beta Ursae Sector Block". With Trill and Betazed being a very big part of Trek canon it's refreshing to finally see them on the map a plottable locations. The entry into Borg space seems to be in a great location as well. It gives Wolf 359 even more subtance with the up coming changes. One question and I know it's probably early for this one, but when will we see the Gamma Quadrant? I'll hold out for that answer....thanks for the changes and I can't wait to try them out!
Derp. Yes, the upper right block that's labeled "Omega Leonis" should be "Gamma Orionis." Again, there's a lot to keep track of, and apparently I failed on a few things. If you look at the sector names, those are correct. Sorry I flubbed on the Sector Block.
And yes, the Gamma Orionis sector Block would technically be like 4 or 5 sectors further south of our Beta Quadrant map. We couldn't extend down that far. However, the content located there mostly didn't need to be located there. We had to move Cestus to the wrong location, but Kessik and the sectors have been renamed so they make more sense where they are now.
Well Cestus is hardly critical plot-wise, just rename it on the map and in the missions.
♪ I'm going around not in circles but in spirographs.
It's pretty much this hard to keep just one timeline intact. ♪
Can anyone who tested on Tribble tell me if when you open your map you're centered in it?
Or do you still default to some random location then have to scroll to find yourself every time you open the map?
You are centred when you open the map... But that's not new, that happens already on Holodeck. Not sure why you don't have that happen. Though on the note of having to scroll to find yourself, there is a "centre on player" button at the bottom of the map too.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
You are centred when you open the map... But that's not new, that happens already on Holodeck. Not sure why you don't have that happen. Though on the note of having to scroll to find yourself, there is a "centre on player" button at the bottom of the map too.
Ah! I should have been more specific -- I meant the Galaxy map. That one is never centered on me, and there is no center button.
:P
"This isn't Azeroth, there shouldn't be magical-forced-dancing spells here." -Me on magical dancing disco balls
Comments
My point was twofold :
1) you can use space stations (or other things) as "markers" or "waymarker posts" to signal to the player where he is .
2) as to the highlighted segment -- STO actually features very-very few space stations in STO .
The shows had a vast list of Federation starbases , and STO has close to none of that .
I'm not saying that these should be starbases to beam to and visit , all I'm saying is that their "miniature forms" could show up in Sector Space maps and be used as "markers" of sorts so that the players can use them as reference points while navigating the new larger maps .
I also noted that these "waymarker posts"need not all be space stations .
They can be nebulas , or remnant of a star system , or asteroid fields , or locations of certain ship groups like the Seventh_Fleet as a stationary or in fleet exercise (there are other task forces / fleets such as Second Fleet , Third Fleet , Fifth Fleet , Sixth Fleet , Seventh Fleet , Ninth Fleet , Tenth Fleet) just like we have the New Romulan Fleet in TD .
The "items" above can be used not just as proverbial sign posts but for additional decoration as well , perhaps to replace some of the freighters that you see in sector space (of which you see relatively a lot) .
I never said that they should be visible across the galaxy .
Remember the ... (I don't want to say excuse ., but I'll say excuse) that your company used to pull the star clusters ? "players got lost" was used there and with the (stated) 7-8 minutes it takes to fly across the new map , some new players might very well feel lost .
"Markers" or "waymarker posts" will help them as well to adjust .
Yupp , that's the sort of recognition I was talking about , exactly .
Yes , I was talking about the background , specifically this bit of it .
Now I'm not sure if that is what you refer to as "the Galactic Core" , but if it is , then that should be visible from the Northern edges of the Alpha & Beta quadrants , but not from all the way from Klingon teritorry (if you want to keep in line with your own supposition that objects that are very far should not be visible across the whole map) .
Hate to tell you this but while that idea is sound (in relation to the Tholians and their cross-dimensional antics) -- almost everybody I know saw that and said -- Nexus .
Ofcourse I am .
... space time would contort itself into a shape of a bagel before winking out of existance if it were otherwise ...
Now as I can see from the new map, while the transwarp gate was removed, the Mutara sector still lies far beyond Romulan space. I think Romulans would have noticed if the Enterprise and the Reliant were to cross their space to get there.
An easy way round the Mutara Nebula issue is to mention in its information box when near it that it is just another different Mutara class nebula, and not the one that Kirk fought in. Saying that, it'd be neat if the static discharges/flashes were somehow visible on the nebula.
Another unrelated issue; is there going to be an update to Diplomatic Immunity, since it's losing some of its benefit from this update as we're now able to freely travel between the Federation's home sector and the Klingon Empire's now.
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
Still thinking how you Warp in sector space, aren't you in Warp already?
I've been watching. Those chairs aren't just right...
Yes, I remember that episode in VOY which introduced "Mutara class nebula" and that could work if it wasn't for the fact that it is Mutara sector and McCoy in St3 TSFS clearly stated he wanted to go to the Genesis planet in the Mutara sector. Therefore a different "in-universe" explanation would be needed.
From the many put offs, sector blocks annoyed me the most. I mean, C'mon.. they were SO badly conceived, it's not even funny.. :mad:
It was said, either in the Dev blog or somewhere in this thread, that certain systems and objects - such as the Mutara Nebula and the the Cestus System - would be out of place due to the new map they have used as canon for STO (Star Trek: Star Charts). I have this book and as mentioned, either in the Dev blog or somewhere in this thread, the Nebula - and Cestus - are about 10 sectors "south" of Klingon space.
In the novel the anomaly flung the Titan into one of the Magellanic clouds.
Except in-game on Tribble the Mutara Nebula is in the Vorn Sector. So it clearly isn't the same place anymore: http://i.imgur.com/AyJtgMy.jpg
Commanding Officer: Captain Pyotr Ramonovich Amosov
Dedication Plaque: "Nil Intentatum Reliquit"
You can only chance to an instance if it has been created and that will only do any good if one of those instances is quieter than the one you are leaving.
It is on tribble and has been for several days. It's nifty and it seems stable enough, but a ghost town. However, with that said tribble just isn't a decent test anymore. Hardly anyone uses it. As is par for the course nowadays, the real test will be when it goes live.
At the border it just asks if you want to "go to the Alpha/Beta quadrant" now, it no longer asks if you want to warp there.
I expect after the Dominion War, the Federation continued to expand its territory while the Cardassians either froze what they had prior to the war or gave up some territory due to post-war concessions after their surrender.
Erm, but they have several characters and references to the novels already. Mackenzie Calhoun is on K-7, and the Ent-F's counselor is from the novels, she even references her replacing Ezri on DS9 when she went and joined the Aventine.
This one really doesn't count since he is a character from TOS, but Leonard James Akaar being a full Admiral is also in the novels. Though how he looks in STO looks a lot like how he does on novel covers.
But as you said, STO is in an alternate timeline from the novels so they can do their own thing.
That's exactly what I've been saying. You could argue that Bajor is below or above Cardassian space but just looks like it's in Cardassian space.
Looks great Taco. Just one question...
WHEN?
As was said easlier, S10.
Oft-repeated suggestions that deserve more repetition:
Consider the sector space two-doors approach for Earth to be accessed and visible from both Beta and Alpha Quadrant. It's sensible and we both know you just won't hear the end of this minor canon detail unless some compromise is found.
Publicize--with special event excitement and intensity--and get to the remaining, most at large bug-fixes. Start with a top-25 list with older, crippling issues taking priority. Replace or update the in-game feedback mechanism to favor usefulness to developers.
Enable PVP-centric players with multiple new Ker'rat- and Capture/Hold-like areas to appease the min-maxer crowd...and maybe grow it some by competing against external PVP gaming options. Free-for-all PVP zones would be best, perhaps with Fleet reinforcement options (see below).
Continue large-scale PVE story areas, but include PVP friendly areas therein for ground and space.
Remove the 1-shot vaporizing capability during space PVP (controversial, I know). Replace with 1-shots capped-at-90%-target-HP, and for diversion simultaneously add the PVP zones.
Insulate game meta better by seeking revenue from sources other than new ships and lock boxes. Ship performance does not need to shift every season, to endless power creep and in spite of gameplay consistency expectations. Instead, maybe give the PVP'rs, predator-pilots, and min-maxers something to do with themselves.
Perhaps the era of can't-gank-certain-maps-without-zen-unlocks could allow limited access to go hunt in otherwise "safe" zones. You might increase PVE rewards with victim-exclusive defensives-focused equipment to compensate PVE-centric players for their sacrifices. High risk, high reward. Allow full access to fleet reinforcement items and a new "fleet help" button to give all fleet-mates the access option (up to ~5 cap) to transwarp in instantaneously (15k proximity) to defend. Pit fleet groups against aggressors.
And allow fleets (huge dilithium/zen cost) to surprise attack other equal-tier fleet starbases--perhaps only vulnerable when 10 fleet members are available to warp in and defend as a team--with starbase defenses blazing (another legit grind or zen opportunity).
Gameplay evolution itself can be at a slower rate: piling specializations onto crafting onto traits onto reputations at the speed of Cryptic development is tiresome to keep up with.
Generally, less raw gotta-keep-up grind, and more free-play and risk of losing something tangible (10 unrefined dilithium per death-by-player; or a default universal buff for a while) but small, whilst bringing lesser ships gradually back up to par with new ones.
Anyway, there are good ideas out there to mull.
Meanwhile, I think it's safe to say the player base is looking forward to Season 10! Naysayers create nothing but negativity, and meanwhile Cryptic impresses once again.
Maxwell
Thankyou for finally openeing up and merging the maps as it should be. Just looking @ the pre-map you have available it already feels like a vast amount of space to cover without the burden of wondering, "what the hell was between the space before the Beta Ursae Sector Block". With Trill and Betazed being a very big part of Trek canon it's refreshing to finally see them on the map a plottable locations. The entry into Borg space seems to be in a great location as well. It gives Wolf 359 even more subtance with the up coming changes. One question and I know it's probably early for this one, but when will we see the Gamma Quadrant? I'll hold out for that answer....thanks for the changes and I can't wait to try them out!
R.I.P Leonard Nimoy
Captain T'Rek
Well Cestus is hardly critical plot-wise, just rename it on the map and in the missions.
It's pretty much this hard to keep just one timeline intact. ♪
Or do you still default to some random location then have to scroll to find yourself every time you open the map?
You are centred when you open the map... But that's not new, that happens already on Holodeck. Not sure why you don't have that happen. Though on the note of having to scroll to find yourself, there is a "centre on player" button at the bottom of the map too.
Ah! I should have been more specific -- I meant the Galaxy map. That one is never centered on me, and there is no center button.
:P