I'm taken aback by the words I've read in this and I seriously hope someone will take the initiative to reconsider this one aspect of the new layout.
Star Trek canon, as well as it's allure, has always been grounded in science, exploration, advancement in the human endeavor. Warp drive itself comes from scientific theory. Black holes come from actual science. This list is endless and along the way comes the Star Trek technology, once viewed by most as science fiction, becoming science reality.
The Star Trek communicator being the forerunner to the common flip phone. The Star Trek medical tricorder now available on the shelves of Walmart. With all these things an more this is no time for game expediency to overshadow all the good that STO has brought to the new generations of would-be star ship captains and their dedicated crews.
When I read things like this:
"There were some canon systems however, which, for gameplay/story reasons could not be moved. Vega, which according to the Star Charts map should be located in one of the newly added sectors in the Alpha Quadrant, is too important to the early Federation gameplay to be moved from its current location in the Risa Sector. We know about these discontinuities, but decided that while following the Star Charts is nice, it's ultimately not as important as the functionality of the game."
Vega most certainly needs to be placed where it belongs, not held for expediency that is within the full grasp of the developers to rectify. Be it location change or a rename, the power to make things right is well within the capability and I can think of no one who's going to get lost if Vega suddenly turns up where it's supposed to be.
When canon conflicts with science, default and defer to science. When expediency conflicts with canon, default and defer to canon. Make STO a trusted home for learning.
When you can be so much more, be so.
Well, technically Sol is directly on the divide between Alpha and Beta. But we can't put half of it in one and half in the other. We made a choice.
Why not? Couldn't you have doors to the system from both, with a warp-out dialogue to choose which side to warp out to? And if you use the exit system button just dump them in Beta?
♪ I'm going around not in circles but in spirographs.
It's pretty much this hard to keep just one timeline intact. ♪
When canon conflicts with science, default and defer to science. When expediency conflicts with canon, default and defer to canon. Make STO a trusted home for learning.
When you can be so much more, be so.
I am also curious with what will happen with "Diplomatic Immunity". I myself tend to pass it out as often as I can, mostly to random people of lower level than me to give them a little driver coil boost. It's a fun little power than makes you feel good inside.
I've never seen anything that suggested Sol system is on the line, thus technically in both quadrants. Even Kingon space is in the Alpha Quadrant with the exception of Quonos. Every mention of the major Federation planets has always been Alpha quadrant, at the very least since Best of Both Worlds and ST VI. Yeah, they're near the Beta Quadrant line, but this idea that all this stuff can just be put in the Beta Quadrant because canon isn't clear, is bull. Canon has been very clear. The only thing this means is that all attempts to call the attempts at keeping to canon is just an attempt at suspending disbelief.
Is it the end of the world? No. Does it make this whole thing uncool? No its still a very cool update. But, lets not talk about things as though they're easily interchangeable when even one of the sites referenced, memory alpha, states that Sol, Vulcan, Andoria, etc. etc. are in the Alpha Quadrant.
I don't see why the map can't be shifted over with the majority of the boxes being in the alpha quadrant, but perhaps keeping it all slightly off canon helps remind people that this isn't exactly we the players making our own next next generation tv series. lol
I've never seen anything that suggested Sol system is on the line, thus technically in both quadrants. Even Kingon space is in the Alpha Quadrant with the exception of Quonos. Every mention of the major Federation planets has always been Alpha quadrant, at the very least since Best of Both Worlds and ST VI. Yeah, they're near the Beta Quadrant line, but this idea that all this stuff can just be put in the Beta Quadrant because canon isn't clear, is bull. Canon has been very clear. The only thing this means is that all attempts to call the attempts at keeping to canon is just an attempt at suspending disbelief.
Is it the end of the world? No. Does it make this whole thing uncool? No its still a very cool update. But, lets not talk about things as though they're easily interchangeable when even one of the sites referenced, memory alpha, states that Sol, Vulcan, Andoria, etc. etc. are in the Alpha Quadrant.
I don't see why the map can't be shifted over with the majority of the boxes being in the alpha quadrant, but perhaps keeping it all slightly off canon helps remind people that this isn't exactly we the players making our own next next generation tv series. lol
You do know that they didn't just pull their info out of a hat? They are using a very detailed map to help map out the quadrants in game. They even gave a link to it in an earlier post in this thread. Explaining why they picked the map they picked even........
I'm taken aback by the words I've read in this and I seriously hope someone will take the initiative to reconsider this one aspect of the new layout.
Star Trek canon, as well as it's allure, has always been grounded in science, exploration, advancement in the human endeavor. Warp drive itself comes from scientific theory. Black holes come from actual science. This list is endless and along the way comes the Star Trek technology, once viewed by most as science fiction, becoming science reality.
The Star Trek communicator being the forerunner to the common flip phone. The Star Trek medical tricorder now available on the shelves of Walmart. With all these things an more this is no time for game expediency to overshadow all the good that STO has brought to the new generations of would-be star ship captains and their dedicated crews.
When I read things like this:
"There were some canon systems however, which, for gameplay/story reasons could not be moved. Vega, which according to the Star Charts map should be located in one of the newly added sectors in the Alpha Quadrant, is too important to the early Federation gameplay to be moved from its current location in the Risa Sector. We know about these discontinuities, but decided that while following the Star Charts is nice, it's ultimately not as important as the functionality of the game."
Vega most certainly needs to be placed where it belongs, not held for expediency that is within the full grasp of the developers to rectify. Be it location change or a rename, the power to make things right is well within the capability and I can think of no one who's going to get lost if Vega suddenly turns up where it's supposed to be.
When canon conflicts with science, default and defer to science. When expediency conflicts with canon, default and defer to canon. Make STO a trusted home for learning.
When you can be so much more, be so.
Get off your high horse. Theres plenty of things not in the location it should be in reality. But since Star Trek isnt actual reality. Cryptic doesnt need to change things because youre having a nerdrage over a planets location. Vega has been where its located the entire life of this game. And now that they expand the map youre POed its not where it should be according to Science? By the way...A Planetary Systems location isnt Science. Its fact.
OH MY GOD...
i just snooped around this night and my head just EXPLODED WITH AWSOMENESS! now this game feels a little more trekkie.
and my character is (and will be) FINALLY HOME (on Betazed).
i just think that vega should be moved as well too if new player are going to be massacrated by this new scale of sector space why not actually put the system where it should be? STO attract A LOT of Series Nostalgia and some fans would be (who by some coincidence) stumble on the game would see and say "WOW THE STAR CHARTS OF THE GAME FOLLOW (mostly) THE CANNON!!!" would be a major free advertising and a space game where space is really big is always coo,lts very rare someone who actually complain about it.
besides this little itty bitty detail you guys are doing a great job.:eek::D
Why not? Couldn't you have doors to the system from both, with a warp-out dialogue to choose which side to warp out to? And if you use the exit system button just dump them in Beta?
Hes already explained why. The very fact that everyone keeps picking at this one post while ignoring the post that actually EXPLAINS WHY is just mind blowing.
Its like you act as if you ignore the explanation long enough he'll have to give in and give you what it is you want.
2) as to the highlighted segment -- STO actually features very-very few space stations in STO .
The shows had a vast list of Federation starbases , and STO has close to none of that . I'm not saying that these should be starbases to beam to and visit , all I'm saying is that their "miniature forms" could show up in Sector Space maps and be used as "markers" of sorts so that the players can use them as reference points while navigating the new larger maps .
Sure, and I'd be ok with adding a few of those, but I don't want to add a ton of stations that are inaccessible. But again, why is flying by Starbase 174 any better than flying by a solar system with a more unique and memorable name, which people will be learning the positions of as they fly around the galaxy anyway?
I also noted that these "waymarker posts"need not all be space stations .
They can be nebulas , or remnant of a star system , or asteroid fields , or locations of certain ship groups like the Seventh_Fleet as a stationary or in fleet exercise (there are other task forces / fleets such as Second Fleet , Third Fleet , Fifth Fleet , Sixth Fleet , Seventh Fleet , Ninth Fleet , Tenth Fleet) just like we have the New Romulan Fleet in TD .
The "items" above can be used not just as proverbial sign posts but for additional decoration as well , perhaps to replace some of the freighters that you see in sector space (of which you see relatively a lot) .
I agree with you there, but even so, it's going to take a while to make much of that stuff, and distribute it. We certainly don't have time for that with this particular project.
I never said that they should be visible across the galaxy .
Remember the ... (I don't want to say excuse ., but I'll say excuse) that your company used to pull the star clusters ? "players got lost" was used there and with the (stated) 7-8 minutes it takes to fly across the new map , some new players might very well feel lost .
"Markers" or "waymarker posts" will help them as well to adjust .
Yupp , that's the sort of recognition I was talking about , exactly .
Not to keep harping on this, but I'm saying that will already happen as people fly around the galaxy. We can add more stations and nebulae and such, but there are already a lot of those 'waymarker posts' as you call them, around, which help guide players through the galaxy as it stands today.
Yes , I was talking about the background , specifically this bit of it .
Now I'm not sure if that is what you refer to as "the Galactic Core" , but if it is , then that should be visible from the Northern edges of the Alpha & Beta quadrants , but not from all the way from Klingon teritorry (if you want to keep in line with your own supposition that objects that are very far should not be visible across the whole map) .
You're twisting things a bit there. Individual objects (like, a specific nebula) should not be easily distinguishable from a distance. The overall plane of the galaxy/galactic core, should be. This is why when we look at the night sky, in a dark place, we can see the rest of the galaxy. That doesn't mean you can (with the naked eye) pick out the Pillars of Creation within the Eagle Nebula.
Hate to tell you this but while that idea is sound (in relation to the Tholians and their cross-dimensional antics) -- almost everybody I know saw that and said -- Nexus .
I'm not surprised people think it is, that was a critique we had when it was made. I'm just saying it is NOT the Nexus.
Why not? Couldn't you have doors to the system from both, with a warp-out dialogue to choose which side to warp out to? And if you use the exit system button just dump them in Beta?
Ok, let's say we put Earth DIRECTLY on the border between Alpha and Beta. Half of the system now sits outside the playable space of the map. You can fly up to Earth, and some other planets, but those planets on the other side of the sun? You can NEVER get to them.
Keep in mind that Sol is the ONLY system in the entire galaxy that is made up of real planets we know about, have pictures of, have data on, etc. And this is THE ONLY system in the entire STO galaxy, that you wouldn't be able to fly through in it's entirety.
Now, that may not be a big deal at the moment, but let's say we add maps to those other planets. The only way you could get to those planets is if they were ALL on the playable side of the system, which would look/be weird.
And we need to add that on the Alpha Quadrant side too, right? Same thing applies, but the the whole system has to be rotated 180º so that the planets are accessible on THAT side of the border.
All of the above makes my skin crawl. We want Sol to be a special system, but not like that.
Keep in mind that Sol is the ONLY system in the entire galaxy that is made up of real planets we know about, have pictures of, have data on, etc.
On that note, it would be so much fun for us geeks to get one or two of the Gliese or Kepler systems in game someday, or at least visible on the map. I noticed that the stars seem to look more like actual spectral types in the new Sector Space, so having a few systems we have pretty good indications on in there just for kicks would be sweet.
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Ok, let's say we put Earth DIRECTLY on the border between Alpha and Beta. Half of the system now sits outside the playable space of the map. You can fly up to Earth, and some other planets, but those planets on the other side of the sun? You can NEVER get to them.
Keep in mind that Sol is the ONLY system in the entire galaxy that is made up of real planets we know about, have pictures of, have data on, etc. And this is THE ONLY system in the entire STO galaxy, that you wouldn't be able to fly through in it's entirety.
Now, that may not be a big deal at the moment, but let's say we add maps to those other planets. The only way you could get to those planets is if they were ALL on the playable side of the system, which would look/be weird.
And we need to add that on the Alpha Quadrant side too, right? Same thing applies, but the the whole system has to be rotated 180º so that the planets are accessible on THAT side of the border.
All of the above makes my skin crawl. We want Sol to be a special system, but not like that.
Why can't you put an identical copy on both sides? Take exactly what is now in the Beta Quadrant, leave it exactly where it is there, and put the same exact thing just over the border in the Alpha Quadrant? While it wouldn't be straddling the line it'll at least be in both quadrants as it should be, and be accessible from either.
So every one knows that earth and all its closest systems are in the alpha quadrant, always has been probably always will be its fact its cannon we all know it... So why after this update which is going to have me replaying the game with yet another toon just to get the scope ( which im thrilled about it looks fantastic!) but we have decided that sol and all her freinds are in the frigging beta quadrant???? can we please for the love of all the we hold dear fix this one thing and ill wont eve submit so much as a minor bug fix ever again.. please and thank you !
Ok, let's say we put Earth DIRECTLY on the border between Alpha and Beta. Half of the system now sits outside the playable space of the map. You can fly up to Earth, and some other planets, but those planets on the other side of the sun? You can NEVER get to them.
Keep in mind that Sol is the ONLY system in the entire galaxy that is made up of real planets we know about, have pictures of, have data on, etc. And this is THE ONLY system in the entire STO galaxy, that you wouldn't be able to fly through in it's entirety.
Now, that may not be a big deal at the moment, but let's say we add maps to those other planets. The only way you could get to those planets is if they were ALL on the playable side of the system, which would look/be weird.
And we need to add that on the Alpha Quadrant side too, right? Same thing applies, but the the whole system has to be rotated 180º so that the planets are accessible on THAT side of the border.
All of the above makes my skin crawl. We want Sol to be a special system, but not like that.
Again, Taco, this is yet another piece of awesome work you did here... THANK YOU!
But I bet you knew the Sol System was going to stir the pot a little for it being the center of all and because of its very particular nature.
Would it be ridiculous to have 2 copies of the Sol system, one on each side of the wall. This would keep all planets accessible from either side of the border. I know, there is a stretch of mind to do on where the system really lay on the map, but I think most people will easily imagine it is a border system either we can approach it alpha or beta side.
So, i fly from Bajor and I can approach Sol with no border jump as much as I could if I fly from Vulcan... There would be no perceptible different either way, I simply feel like I am really flying to the hub of Federation with no border jump. Once inside, I can either choose alpha or beta as a drop point.
You will say, but how 'weird' will it be to have me near the "beta sol system" and my friend in sector space near the alpha... if both drop point are in different relative position to the system, I am relatively sure people can stretch their mind to imagine we don't see each other... simply cross border and then we just see each other again on the same 'relative position' to Sol.
I am sorry Taco, but this is THE system people are going to focus on and press on... I think the copy idea could solve that problem of having Sol "on the border"
On that note, it would be so much fun for us geeks to get one or two of the Gliese or Kepler systems in game someday, or at least visible on the map. I noticed that the stars seem to look more like actual spectral types in the new Sector Space, so having a few systems we have pretty good indications on in there just for kicks would be sweet.
Yeah adding a few "real" systems to the map would be great. I especially miss some Pulsar stars. I don't know how much work it would be to add a few of those but it would increase immersion even more. That being said, flying from one end of the Beta quadrant to the other now feels a lot more like real space.
I've been a critic of the placement of Sol in the Beta Quadrant, but I don't really want to see it duplicated in both quadrants. Unfortunately, with how the early Federation story plays out, Beta just makes more sense with the Star Charts reference they're using as a guideline.
A little worried about "tour the galaxy" loosing the charm of trying to figure out the most effective path through the sectors, and turning into a simple waypoint-to-waypoint scenario. Then again, more rewards, so it has that going for it, which is nice.
It's good that there will now be less loading times involved when going somewhere - then again, I never really thought "Oh man, I wish they finally did something to the sector space", but maybe it's just me, who would prefer to have the ship customisation options expanded - some fed ships suffer from some parts clipping into each other, klingon and romulan ships lack the variability of fed ships, materials and decals would also benefit from a larger color selection, not to mention that it sure would be nice to have more items altering the visuals of your ship...
Still, to be fair, there don't really seem to be any real downsides or radical gamebreaking features included, all that while streamlining the sector space traffic and enhancing the visuals and stuff, so "ceiling cat approves", I guess ;-)
As it is right now, new Romulan chars are not allowed to leave the Tau Dewa Sector till they reach lvl 10 and have chosen their ally (Klingon or Fed). How is this going to work in the future when there are no more borders around the sector block?
As it is right now, new Romulan chars are not allowed to leave the Tau Dewa Sector till they reach lvl 10 and have chosen their ally (Klingon or Fed). How is this going to work in the future when there are no more borders around the sector block?
maybe an invisible wall in a circle extending a certain distance from dewa 3/new romulus along with a pop-up saying that you can't go further until such-and-such
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
i like also that you have added some of the missing worlds - ferenginar, tellar etc
you appear to have forgotten to add some of the klingon's allies homeworlds. gorns nausicaans leths etc. please add these
Also it would be amusing if you made up a story justifying the sectors as some sort of border control which was removed. like how esd was destroyed in that ep
SO, everyone who was previously in multiple sector instances is now going to be in 1 instance.... all together... and you didn't think this will cause even more lag and instability issues?!
i have enough lag playing this game now... imagine the impact of future TRIBBLE on it
also, when are you going to get better servers? how do you justify bringing out more and more content, allowing more players into the game and not update the server base?
this game will crash into the ground faster than you can say kobayashi maru!
AND WHAT ABOUT THE FIXES!?
do you have a team of monkeys at the bug testing area?
EVERY patch released has problems.... STOP RUSHING PATCH RELEASES TO MEET UNREALISTIC DEADLINES!
you're a game company.... not a uni student trying to finish their dissertation!
So every one knows that earth and all its closest systems are in the alpha quadrant, always has been probably always will be its fact its cannon we all know it... So why after this update which is going to have me replaying the game with yet another toon just to get the scope ( which im thrilled about it looks fantastic!) but we have decided that sol and all her freinds are in the frigging beta quadrant???? can we please for the love of all the we hold dear fix this one thing and ill wont eve submit so much as a minor bug fix ever again.. please and thank you !
Again, Sol, (and all it's friends) have BEEN in the Beta Quadrant for the entire existence of Star Trek Online. We have not moved them in any significant way. The Sirius Sector Block has simply dissolved, and left the Vulcan/Orion/Risa Sectors where they have always lived in game.
SO, everyone who was previously in multiple sector instances is now going to be in 1 instance.... all together... and you didn't think this will cause even more lag and instability issues?!
i have enough lag playing this game now... imagine the impact of future TRIBBLE on it
also, when are you going to get better servers? how do you justify bringing out more and more content, allowing more players into the game and not update the server base?
this game will crash into the ground faster than you can say kobayashi maru!
AND WHAT ABOUT THE FIXES!?
do you have a team of monkeys at the bug testing area?
EVERY patch released has problems.... STOP RUSHING PATCH RELEASES TO MEET UNREALISTIC DEADLINES!
you're a game company.... not a uni student trying to finish their dissertation!
not happy... sort this game out!
They're not cramming everyone who was in every sector block into one.
Each quadrant will have its own population limit, similar to a sector block limit now. So instead of 50-70 people per sector block, it'll be 50-70 people per quadrant.
Why can't you put an identical copy on both sides? Take exactly what is now in the Beta Quadrant, leave it exactly where it is there, and put the same exact thing just over the border in the Alpha Quadrant? While it wouldn't be straddling the line it'll at least be in both quadrants as it should be, and be accessible from either.
I think it would be really weird to fly past the Sol system, hit the border, cross it, then have to fly out past the Sol system again.
If its not right on the border it will be weird to see it on both sides, because it will be really extra obvious there are two copies of the system.
If it is on the border and all the planets are accessible on both sides, it will create some weird looking scenario where you have a half circle spread of the planets.
The only way it would look right is to have it on the border, and have the planets spread out in their orbits, but then you might fly up to Sol on the Alpha side and want to go to Utopia Planitia on Mars, but its on the beta side, so now you need to cross the border and have a load screen, even though you can see Mars right there on the Alpha side.
With an actual load border right there, anything they do would be an obvious kluge, with the best solution being having to change quadrants depending on what planet you want to visit.
Eh, I don't really have a problem with the abstraction of Sol being in the Beta Quadrant(I personally like the galactic rotation explanation/justification).
As for the landmark thing.. I think part of it might come down to the closer draw distance and current lack of border/territory distinction. It feels more like you're sailing around in a grey, soupy fog; unable to see the night stars to guide you.
Obviously, the draw distance is for technical reasons, but I think being able to see certain landmarks from a further distance will help guide people. (Starbase 39, 42, K-7, Drozana, the Badlands, Azure and Arucanis nebula are all very notable examples from Holodeck.)
I also think having colored, factional grids and skybox/ambient changes will help players get an instant sense of where they are and that they're actually moving through various regions of space. (If there's one thing every MMO should have learned from WoW, it's that a few lighting and skybox changes can add a lot of unique 'atmosphere' to each area.)
Hey Taco, if you want to make the nitpickers happy just add a sol system to the Alpha quad as a door to the sol system. Then when they click the warp out button add a popup box asking them which quadrant they would like to go to.
having viewed the new changes on tribble I must confess that almost every looks awesome, I have noticed that some ships are not scaled correctly and at maximum zoom out the whole ship still completely fills the screen, I hope this is all corrected before this update goes live.
having said that I will add that this is is one more awesome change in a long line of awesome changes that I am enjoying immensely keep up the good work.
just to name a few of the things I am liking and enjoying with sto ATM I will include ship mastery, new crafting system, specializations & upgrading of weapons & consoles.
to be fair there are a few things that need work but the good outweighs the not so good by light years.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
Spent a bit of time poking around on Tribble today.
First impressions are; that I really like this change.
I recognize from the Dev Blog, that some systems were placed (or moved) for practical/ convenience reasons and thus erring on the side of game flow. So some systems may not be in "Canon" locations.
However, my only "Big" quibble really, and it's silly fan-boy stuff, is that I feel that Nimbus should be located in the "Triangle". That is the lawless no-man's land, of roughly triangular shape, that occupies the space where the disputed superpower territory boundaries converge.
The "Planet of Galactic Peace", was home to the offices of the Klingon, Federation, and Romulan consulates, and is mentioned in ST: V as being within the Neutral zone.
There are actually and effectively, three neutral zones, each of which separates a superpower from the other two, thus sharing two borders, and converging within "The Triangle".
I feel that this would have been the ideal location for Nimbus. Likely in the Xarantine (NE Corner), or possibly Japori (NW corner), Sectors.
But again, that's me geeking out.
Fact is, the changes are very welcome overall, and much less immersion-breaking. It's been a long time coming, and so long as it gets time on Tribble for polish and is not rushed out this will be a fantastic evolution to sector space travel.
I can't help but feel a bit of concern about this. Even tiny little updates like changing the icons brought bugs.
I'm still constantly either switching my BOFF moves from the default one, to ones I've learned and prefer despite having set it a dozen times already. OR I'm constantly having to buy training manuals again and again to re-teach the BOFF that keeps forgetting I've taught him/her another move. So the new BOFF system is still buggy.
How many more bugs are we going to see when they do something major like change the entire sector map system???
2) All planets rotate on their own axes, just not around their stars. Elliptical orbits are a pain in the butt. Just easier to draw everything as circular. Sorry. I'm lazy.
Star art is not final.
May the ghosts of Isaac Newton and Edmund Haley haunt you, burning your toast and causing all your socks to disappear in the dryer. Do you know what it took to prove planets orbit in ellipses? Shame. :P
Comments
Star Trek canon, as well as it's allure, has always been grounded in science, exploration, advancement in the human endeavor. Warp drive itself comes from scientific theory. Black holes come from actual science. This list is endless and along the way comes the Star Trek technology, once viewed by most as science fiction, becoming science reality.
The Star Trek communicator being the forerunner to the common flip phone. The Star Trek medical tricorder now available on the shelves of Walmart. With all these things an more this is no time for game expediency to overshadow all the good that STO has brought to the new generations of would-be star ship captains and their dedicated crews.
When I read things like this:
"There were some canon systems however, which, for gameplay/story reasons could not be moved. Vega, which according to the Star Charts map should be located in one of the newly added sectors in the Alpha Quadrant, is too important to the early Federation gameplay to be moved from its current location in the Risa Sector. We know about these discontinuities, but decided that while following the Star Charts is nice, it's ultimately not as important as the functionality of the game."
Vega most certainly needs to be placed where it belongs, not held for expediency that is within the full grasp of the developers to rectify. Be it location change or a rename, the power to make things right is well within the capability and I can think of no one who's going to get lost if Vega suddenly turns up where it's supposed to be.
When canon conflicts with science, default and defer to science. When expediency conflicts with canon, default and defer to canon. Make STO a trusted home for learning.
When you can be so much more, be so.
Why not? Couldn't you have doors to the system from both, with a warp-out dialogue to choose which side to warp out to? And if you use the exit system button just dump them in Beta?
It's pretty much this hard to keep just one timeline intact. ♪
dude, the star charts they are following are Star Trek Star Charts. not the real ones in an astronomy book
http://static.tumblr.com/9vpcbie/GpTng4j7i/startrekstarchart.jpg
so the only thing they are taking liberties with is a fictional universe that occasionally takes liberties of itself
Is it the end of the world? No. Does it make this whole thing uncool? No its still a very cool update. But, lets not talk about things as though they're easily interchangeable when even one of the sites referenced, memory alpha, states that Sol, Vulcan, Andoria, etc. etc. are in the Alpha Quadrant.
I don't see why the map can't be shifted over with the majority of the boxes being in the alpha quadrant, but perhaps keeping it all slightly off canon helps remind people that this isn't exactly we the players making our own next next generation tv series. lol
You do know that they didn't just pull their info out of a hat? They are using a very detailed map to help map out the quadrants in game. They even gave a link to it in an earlier post in this thread. Explaining why they picked the map they picked even........
Get off your high horse. Theres plenty of things not in the location it should be in reality. But since Star Trek isnt actual reality. Cryptic doesnt need to change things because youre having a nerdrage over a planets location. Vega has been where its located the entire life of this game. And now that they expand the map youre POed its not where it should be according to Science? By the way...A Planetary Systems location isnt Science. Its fact.
i just snooped around this night and my head just EXPLODED WITH AWSOMENESS! now this game feels a little more trekkie.
and my character is (and will be) FINALLY HOME (on Betazed).
i just think that vega should be moved as well too if new player are going to be massacrated by this new scale of sector space why not actually put the system where it should be? STO attract A LOT of Series Nostalgia and some fans would be (who by some coincidence) stumble on the game would see and say "WOW THE STAR CHARTS OF THE GAME FOLLOW (mostly) THE CANNON!!!" would be a major free advertising and a space game where space is really big is always coo,lts very rare someone who actually complain about it.
besides this little itty bitty detail you guys are doing a great job.:eek::D
spocked thumb face...
Hes already explained why. The very fact that everyone keeps picking at this one post while ignoring the post that actually EXPLAINS WHY is just mind blowing.
Its like you act as if you ignore the explanation long enough he'll have to give in and give you what it is you want.
Sure, but why are Stations better waymarks than the systems that are already all over the quadrants?
Sure, and I'd be ok with adding a few of those, but I don't want to add a ton of stations that are inaccessible. But again, why is flying by Starbase 174 any better than flying by a solar system with a more unique and memorable name, which people will be learning the positions of as they fly around the galaxy anyway?
I agree with you there, but even so, it's going to take a while to make much of that stuff, and distribute it. We certainly don't have time for that with this particular project.
Not to keep harping on this, but I'm saying that will already happen as people fly around the galaxy. We can add more stations and nebulae and such, but there are already a lot of those 'waymarker posts' as you call them, around, which help guide players through the galaxy as it stands today.
You're twisting things a bit there. Individual objects (like, a specific nebula) should not be easily distinguishable from a distance. The overall plane of the galaxy/galactic core, should be. This is why when we look at the night sky, in a dark place, we can see the rest of the galaxy. That doesn't mean you can (with the naked eye) pick out the Pillars of Creation within the Eagle Nebula.
I'm not surprised people think it is, that was a critique we had when it was made. I'm just saying it is NOT the Nexus.
Ok, let's say we put Earth DIRECTLY on the border between Alpha and Beta. Half of the system now sits outside the playable space of the map. You can fly up to Earth, and some other planets, but those planets on the other side of the sun? You can NEVER get to them.
Keep in mind that Sol is the ONLY system in the entire galaxy that is made up of real planets we know about, have pictures of, have data on, etc. And this is THE ONLY system in the entire STO galaxy, that you wouldn't be able to fly through in it's entirety.
Now, that may not be a big deal at the moment, but let's say we add maps to those other planets. The only way you could get to those planets is if they were ALL on the playable side of the system, which would look/be weird.
And we need to add that on the Alpha Quadrant side too, right? Same thing applies, but the the whole system has to be rotated 180º so that the planets are accessible on THAT side of the border.
All of the above makes my skin crawl. We want Sol to be a special system, but not like that.
On that note, it would be so much fun for us geeks to get one or two of the Gliese or Kepler systems in game someday, or at least visible on the map. I noticed that the stars seem to look more like actual spectral types in the new Sector Space, so having a few systems we have pretty good indications on in there just for kicks would be sweet.
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Why can't you put an identical copy on both sides? Take exactly what is now in the Beta Quadrant, leave it exactly where it is there, and put the same exact thing just over the border in the Alpha Quadrant? While it wouldn't be straddling the line it'll at least be in both quadrants as it should be, and be accessible from either.
Again, Taco, this is yet another piece of awesome work you did here... THANK YOU!
But I bet you knew the Sol System was going to stir the pot a little for it being the center of all and because of its very particular nature.
Would it be ridiculous to have 2 copies of the Sol system, one on each side of the wall. This would keep all planets accessible from either side of the border. I know, there is a stretch of mind to do on where the system really lay on the map, but I think most people will easily imagine it is a border system either we can approach it alpha or beta side.
So, i fly from Bajor and I can approach Sol with no border jump as much as I could if I fly from Vulcan... There would be no perceptible different either way, I simply feel like I am really flying to the hub of Federation with no border jump. Once inside, I can either choose alpha or beta as a drop point.
You will say, but how 'weird' will it be to have me near the "beta sol system" and my friend in sector space near the alpha... if both drop point are in different relative position to the system, I am relatively sure people can stretch their mind to imagine we don't see each other... simply cross border and then we just see each other again on the same 'relative position' to Sol.
I am sorry Taco, but this is THE system people are going to focus on and press on... I think the copy idea could solve that problem of having Sol "on the border"
Yeah adding a few "real" systems to the map would be great. I especially miss some Pulsar stars. I don't know how much work it would be to add a few of those but it would increase immersion even more. That being said, flying from one end of the Beta quadrant to the other now feels a lot more like real space.
A little worried about "tour the galaxy" loosing the charm of trying to figure out the most effective path through the sectors, and turning into a simple waypoint-to-waypoint scenario. Then again, more rewards, so it has that going for it, which is nice.
It's good that there will now be less loading times involved when going somewhere - then again, I never really thought "Oh man, I wish they finally did something to the sector space", but maybe it's just me, who would prefer to have the ship customisation options expanded - some fed ships suffer from some parts clipping into each other, klingon and romulan ships lack the variability of fed ships, materials and decals would also benefit from a larger color selection, not to mention that it sure would be nice to have more items altering the visuals of your ship...
Still, to be fair, there don't really seem to be any real downsides or radical gamebreaking features included, all that while streamlining the sector space traffic and enhancing the visuals and stuff, so "ceiling cat approves", I guess ;-)
or they may just ditch the restriction completely
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
you appear to have forgotten to add some of the klingon's allies homeworlds. gorns nausicaans leths etc. please add these
Also it would be amusing if you made up a story justifying the sectors as some sort of border control which was removed. like how esd was destroyed in that ep
i have enough lag playing this game now... imagine the impact of future TRIBBLE on it
also, when are you going to get better servers? how do you justify bringing out more and more content, allowing more players into the game and not update the server base?
this game will crash into the ground faster than you can say kobayashi maru!
AND WHAT ABOUT THE FIXES!?
do you have a team of monkeys at the bug testing area?
EVERY patch released has problems.... STOP RUSHING PATCH RELEASES TO MEET UNREALISTIC DEADLINES!
you're a game company.... not a uni student trying to finish their dissertation!
not happy... sort this game out!
Again, Sol, (and all it's friends) have BEEN in the Beta Quadrant for the entire existence of Star Trek Online. We have not moved them in any significant way. The Sirius Sector Block has simply dissolved, and left the Vulcan/Orion/Risa Sectors where they have always lived in game.
They're not cramming everyone who was in every sector block into one.
Each quadrant will have its own population limit, similar to a sector block limit now. So instead of 50-70 people per sector block, it'll be 50-70 people per quadrant.
I think it would be really weird to fly past the Sol system, hit the border, cross it, then have to fly out past the Sol system again.
If its not right on the border it will be weird to see it on both sides, because it will be really extra obvious there are two copies of the system.
If it is on the border and all the planets are accessible on both sides, it will create some weird looking scenario where you have a half circle spread of the planets.
The only way it would look right is to have it on the border, and have the planets spread out in their orbits, but then you might fly up to Sol on the Alpha side and want to go to Utopia Planitia on Mars, but its on the beta side, so now you need to cross the border and have a load screen, even though you can see Mars right there on the Alpha side.
With an actual load border right there, anything they do would be an obvious kluge, with the best solution being having to change quadrants depending on what planet you want to visit.
As for the landmark thing.. I think part of it might come down to the closer draw distance and current lack of border/territory distinction. It feels more like you're sailing around in a grey, soupy fog; unable to see the night stars to guide you.
Obviously, the draw distance is for technical reasons, but I think being able to see certain landmarks from a further distance will help guide people. (Starbase 39, 42, K-7, Drozana, the Badlands, Azure and Arucanis nebula are all very notable examples from Holodeck.)
I also think having colored, factional grids and skybox/ambient changes will help players get an instant sense of where they are and that they're actually moving through various regions of space. (If there's one thing every MMO should have learned from WoW, it's that a few lighting and skybox changes can add a lot of unique 'atmosphere' to each area.)
having said that I will add that this is is one more awesome change in a long line of awesome changes that I am enjoying immensely keep up the good work.
just to name a few of the things I am liking and enjoying with sto ATM I will include ship mastery, new crafting system, specializations & upgrading of weapons & consoles.
to be fair there are a few things that need work but the good outweighs the not so good by light years.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
First impressions are; that I really like this change.
I recognize from the Dev Blog, that some systems were placed (or moved) for practical/ convenience reasons and thus erring on the side of game flow. So some systems may not be in "Canon" locations.
However, my only "Big" quibble really, and it's silly fan-boy stuff, is that I feel that Nimbus should be located in the "Triangle". That is the lawless no-man's land, of roughly triangular shape, that occupies the space where the disputed superpower territory boundaries converge.
The "Planet of Galactic Peace", was home to the offices of the Klingon, Federation, and Romulan consulates, and is mentioned in ST: V as being within the Neutral zone.
There are actually and effectively, three neutral zones, each of which separates a superpower from the other two, thus sharing two borders, and converging within "The Triangle".
I feel that this would have been the ideal location for Nimbus. Likely in the Xarantine (NE Corner), or possibly Japori (NW corner), Sectors.
But again, that's me geeking out.
Fact is, the changes are very welcome overall, and much less immersion-breaking. It's been a long time coming, and so long as it gets time on Tribble for polish and is not rushed out this will be a fantastic evolution to sector space travel.
maj!
Operations Team, 12th Fleet
I'm still constantly either switching my BOFF moves from the default one, to ones I've learned and prefer despite having set it a dozen times already. OR I'm constantly having to buy training manuals again and again to re-teach the BOFF that keeps forgetting I've taught him/her another move. So the new BOFF system is still buggy.
How many more bugs are we going to see when they do something major like change the entire sector map system???
May the ghosts of Isaac Newton and Edmund Haley haunt you, burning your toast and causing all your socks to disappear in the dryer. Do you know what it took to prove planets orbit in ellipses? Shame. :P