Now, with it impossible to grind argala, because it is locked and you cant do it, people are free to enjoy the content they like without fear that they are wasting their time.
Until they realize that playing this game is a complete waste of time, like millions of others already have.
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
Until they realize that playing this game is a complete waste of time, like millions of others already have.
What I find amazing, the number of people who have this attitude on the forums... If you dislike it so much, stop playing like you keep insinuating others have...
I then have to wonder, if you've actually quit playing, why bother lingering on the forums?
The problem was, people couldn't enjoy any content besides argala, because they knew they could get more spec points for their time spent if they did grinding there.
Now, with it impossible to grind argala, because it is locked and you cant do it, people are free to enjoy the content they like without fear that they are wasting their time.
Plus, new sources of dil!
I already addressed the dilithium bonus as a nice gain. But you've missed my point, perhaps I didn't adequately explain. Basically, I'm questioning cryptics balancing policy. Rather then simply dangle the carrot elsewhere (or in the case of xp everywhere) they nerf the the hell out of whatever it is that they don't like and add smaller bonuses that don't make up for what they take away. Then players move on to another area and again they don't like the player behavior so they nerf that too. They could have very easily pulled players away from argala by matching its xp payout elsewhere. But instead they time gated patrols, nerfed them and added slightly more xp in other places, bit the gains don't outweigh the loss xp wise. I agree that they needed to pull players away from argala, but I don't agree with how they did it. They should have created alternatives, but it's so much easier to just hit it with a bat and call it a day.
What do you do in this game that doesn't interact with one of the many grinds this game is built on? Replay episodes for the story? Because even though playing episodes itself is a grind, I'm as willing to forgo labeling them such as you are.
But really, outside the chat window, what in this game isn't involved with the grind in some way? What is so engaging that even normal people would perform it without some progress towards a grind involved?
Just because an activity grants skill points and dilithium doesn't mean it's part of the grind. It just means it's content with rewards.
Of course you want rewards as a player.
But the grindy part is where you do stuff only for the reward, and often pick the single one thing that has the best time/reward ratio. Like grinding Argala back-to-back for skill points.
Cooldowns help to make sure that, even if there is a "best" thing (and there always is), you will have to do different activities. And the skill point increases and additional dilithium rewards across all content is what will make a lot more activities seem viable, too.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Cooldowns help to make sure that, even if there is a "best" thing (and there always is), you will have to do different activities.
If I'm not mistaken, they explicitly stated that the cooldowns were implemented to minimize the potential for any future abuse based on their own oversight in setting mission rewards.
And the skill point increases and additional dilithium rewards across all content is what will make a lot more activities seem viable, too.
Viable is a relative term. I would find content more viable if I found the content itself more engaging. I don't have interest in PvPing in this game, but fighting against other players is one way to make the game more engaging. Fighting alongside other players is another way. Some interesting scripts in PvE, solo or group, would be great; anything but another janky cutscene that doesn't even load properly before I've hit escape to skip it.
NPC scripting is really underappreciated. I've found it greatly extends the life of content if it is appropriately entertaining. Cutscenes are overrated, especially with the genre going cutscene crazy these days.
"I took an arrow to the knee" doesn't need a cutscene; it can be just as entertaining when delivered by an NPC script (Lt. VanD takes arrows to the knee all the time, and should have an appropriately humorous response to it).
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
Frankly they could have solved this by limiting spec points by time. e.g. you could not earn more than 1 per day, anything beyond that would be a tiny amount of dil
Until they realize that playing this game is a complete waste of time, like millions of others already have.
Playing computer games is a "waste of time", end of story; singling out STO in that regard is unfair. Too many players engage in a self-defensive delusion that their game progress somehow matters, I suspect to avoid considering how much time / money they've spent on it.
There are games which have definable value, for honing mental skills or physical reslience and transferrable teamwork. I don't think any MMOs are in that category.
What option was taken away? To redo the same mission again and again? You still can do that after the patch.
What was taken away was any way to level or gain spec points before your 100th birthday. But in one thing you are totally correct. Individual grind was taken away and now we all equally have a gigantic, time-gated grind that exists in balance throughout the game. The entire game, every aspect of it except Space Barbie just got time-gated, from ship mastery to end game spec levelling. Every player is now playing at the speed Cryptic wants. Total player control. Its devilishly genius, honestly.
Wait until the bonus xp weekend. It was a genius way for them to hide what's actually been done. Right now players are thinking the patch is amazeballs because the effects are hidden. The ONLY positive direction taken was addind dil to more things and returning normal queue rewards to pre-DR levels which is not a buff but a fix fir a terrible decision they made.
We look at 2-3k SP upon successfully completion of an elite queued match. Critters there are as under-rewarding as it can be. With 8 SP on ground critters they may even keep the reward and spare me the info spam.
In other words 3 k instead of 1k. Thats the three fold increase Mr. Gray talked about, leaving everyone some 50 elite maps to do if one wishes to get 1 spec point out of there.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
We look at 2-3k SP upon successfully completion of an elite queued match. In game critters there as under-rewarding as it can be. With 8 SP on ground critters they may even keep the reward and spare me the info spam.
In other words 3 k instead of 1k. Thats the three fold increase Mr. Gray talked about, leaving everyone some 50 elite maps to do if one wishes to get 1 spec point out of there.
Elite queues? As if the average player can afford the Zen/dil/ec to get their gear to even attempt those queues? But as I said, its genius monotization under the guise of "buffs". The people running Cryptic are shrewd, shrewd business people. Of that, Ive never cast doubt.
Making an enjoyable game experience is another matter entirely.
Playing computer games is a "waste of time", end of story; singling out STO in that regard is unfair. Too many players engage in a self-defensive delusion that their game progress somehow matters, I suspect to avoid considering how much time / money they've spent on it.
There are games which have definable value, for honing mental skills or physical reslience and transferrable teamwork. I don't think any MMOs are in that category.
If you want to get all philosophical about it, anything you do is a waste of time if you think it is. Things have value if people think they do. And any successful game is definitely in that category.
Even if they had done the obvious thing and raise the other missions/queues/patrols to the level you got from Argala it would still take a while for the game to pick up speed again, but what they did was reduce the max XP you could make in an hour by a factor of 12. [/url]
Precisely my point. As I said, eventually the playerbase will come to understand.
I in turn reduced the maximum time I spend in the game by an equal number which means that since DR I have gone from 6 hours a day 7 days a week to about 10 min a day 3 days a week, I've reduced my spend from £200 a month to zero and I just bought a nice toy with the money I saved.
I still want to put emphasis on the grind free nature of the doff system cryptic likely will keep untouched till sector space revamp.
2 doff cycles a day grad me some 1 spec point/toon/week. Doesnt sound much but conforms with the grind free nature of the OP and is WAYS easier than getting SP anywhere in game now.
After re-reading Mr. Grays announcement on undertaken adjustments to game and the way they implemented in correlation with an SP weekend I just decided to skip that one all together and changed my weekend plans, not in favour of STO.
See you next week then.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
STO is just a chat room for me now, I log in daily to have a chat about Star Trek with my fleet mates, nobody runs anything any more, we just casually fly around chatting.
Even if they had done the obvious thing and raise the other missions/queues/patrols to the level you got from Argala it would still take a while for the game to pick up speed again, but what they did was reduce the max XP you could make in an hour by a factor of 12.
I in turn reduced the maximum time I spend in the game by an equal number which means that since DR I have gone from 6 hours a day 7 days a week to about 10 min a day 3 days a week, I've reduced my spend from £200 a month to zero and I just bought a nice toy with the money I saved.
if they fix the superior lag on some of the delta patrols it might be tolerable since we'd have more options, also the old patrol missions need to come back in each sector after completion.
What was taken away was any way to level or gain spec points before your 100th birthday. But in one thing you are totally correct. Individual grind was taken away and now we all equally have a gigantic, time-gated grind that exists in balance throughout the game. The entire game, every aspect of it except Space Barbie just got time-gated, from ship mastery to end game spec levelling. Every player is now playing at the speed Cryptic wants. Total player control. Its devilishly genius, honestly.
Yup , it took them 5 years to "master this new body" (errrr... I mean MMO) .
Unfortunately all they ended up doing is f#!king themselfs in the #$$ .
... woooppss , did I just say that out loud ... ??
I've worked for Chinese companies. I think their culture is too new to market economics to understand you can't force your Western customers to grind or they will quit. You would not believe some of the stupid and illegal things my bosses kept trying to do. Several of my former bosses are hiding in the Caymen Islands with arrest warrants pending against them in the USA and Hong Kong.
STO is just a chat room for me now, I log in daily to have a chat about Star Trek with my fleet mates, nobody runs anything any more, we just casually fly around chatting.
Even if they had done the obvious thing and raise the other missions/queues/patrols to the level you got from Argala it would still take a while for the game to pick up speed again, but what they did was reduce the max XP you could make in an hour by a factor of 12.
I in turn reduced the maximum time I spend in the game by an equal number which means that since DR I have gone from 6 hours a day 7 days a week to about 10 min a day 3 days a week, I've reduced my spend from £200 a month to zero and I just bought a nice toy with the money I saved.
So that's 6 hours a day, 7 days a week, for a grand total of 48 hours a week playing Star Trek Online. During which you were spending about 300 dollars a month. That's a second full time job that you're spending a car payment every month to do.
Now, I'm not trying to bust your chops about how you allegedly spend your time or money, I don't really care what you do or how much money you spend to do it. I'd just like to ask you if you really think your behavior is anywhere approaching what an average player invests into this game? If you really think that your example should serve as a warning to Cryptic about what is to come, and what masses of players will do in droves?
And, further more, how could this come as a surprise to you when, by your own admission, the max XP return was over 10 times removed from what is average for this game? Did you legitimately think that spamming the same mission over and over for 12 times the average reward was the game working as intended? And if so what informed that opinion? Was it the way they removed the Mirror Universe STF for being exploited in the exact same way? Or did you just hear enough conspiracy theories about Cryptic trying cook their metrics that you assumed you were in on the scam?
Now, don't get me wrong, it's not the exploiting that bothers me, exploit to your hearts content, it's the nature of gamers to figure out how to game a system. But why does everyone get so offended when the developers finally get around to patching the exploit that you've discovered?
I've worked for Chinese companies. I think their culture is too new to market economics to understand you can't force your Western customers to grind or they will quit.
Hahhahhaaaa .... ha ... ha-ha , yes is to new .... a few thousand years of culture and trading experience ... compared with .... hahaha ... nvm . Oh and say americans , not western customers
I'you can't force your Western customers to grind or they will quit. You would not believe some of the stupid and illegal things my bosses kept trying to do. Sever
I challenge that claim. The crowds of ships around Argala and the pre-DR Infected Elite queue speed seems to strongly suggest otherwise.
Maybe you can't convince everyone - but the ones you can convince, they'll make still good business.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
When xp weekend is over and the shocking new xp gains are realized by the general population
They will see it will take a new level 50 about 1 year to level to 60 then to fill the Intel spec tree up playing the game 2 hours a day 6 days a week
Wont that be like WOW from a new player , They will be so excited wont they !
Tuesday It will begin
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
I do not understand the complaints about a cooldown timer on patrol missions--especially now that the patrol rewards have supposedly been level-set to their time commitment. There's got to be what, at least half a dozen such missions in most sectors? Minimum?
I'm not sure what the average playtime is for everyone, but if it takes you an average of four minutes to play through a patrol, by the time you finish going through all the patrols in a sector the cooldown on the first should be over. And if you really do burn through them that quickly, spend a few minutes doing upkeep on your doffs or something, or duck across the sector border and do some patrols in the next sector. Or replay a lucrative story mission. Or jump in a queue. Or something.
Point being, if patrol missions are what you enjoy (and I confess to greatly enjoying them for their own sake), it should be literally impossible--even with a 30-minute lockout timer--to be in a situation where there is no available patrol to run.
Fleet Admiral L'Yern - Screenshot and doffing addict
Eclipse Class Intel Cruiser U.S.S. Dioscuria NX-91121-A - Interactive Crew Roster
Comments
What I find amazing, the number of people who have this attitude on the forums... If you dislike it so much, stop playing like you keep insinuating others have...
I then have to wonder, if you've actually quit playing, why bother lingering on the forums?
I already addressed the dilithium bonus as a nice gain. But you've missed my point, perhaps I didn't adequately explain. Basically, I'm questioning cryptics balancing policy. Rather then simply dangle the carrot elsewhere (or in the case of xp everywhere) they nerf the the hell out of whatever it is that they don't like and add smaller bonuses that don't make up for what they take away. Then players move on to another area and again they don't like the player behavior so they nerf that too. They could have very easily pulled players away from argala by matching its xp payout elsewhere. But instead they time gated patrols, nerfed them and added slightly more xp in other places, bit the gains don't outweigh the loss xp wise. I agree that they needed to pull players away from argala, but I don't agree with how they did it. They should have created alternatives, but it's so much easier to just hit it with a bat and call it a day.
Just because an activity grants skill points and dilithium doesn't mean it's part of the grind. It just means it's content with rewards.
Of course you want rewards as a player.
But the grindy part is where you do stuff only for the reward, and often pick the single one thing that has the best time/reward ratio. Like grinding Argala back-to-back for skill points.
Cooldowns help to make sure that, even if there is a "best" thing (and there always is), you will have to do different activities. And the skill point increases and additional dilithium rewards across all content is what will make a lot more activities seem viable, too.
If I'm not mistaken, they explicitly stated that the cooldowns were implemented to minimize the potential for any future abuse based on their own oversight in setting mission rewards.
Viable is a relative term. I would find content more viable if I found the content itself more engaging. I don't have interest in PvPing in this game, but fighting against other players is one way to make the game more engaging. Fighting alongside other players is another way. Some interesting scripts in PvE, solo or group, would be great; anything but another janky cutscene that doesn't even load properly before I've hit escape to skip it.
NPC scripting is really underappreciated. I've found it greatly extends the life of content if it is appropriately entertaining. Cutscenes are overrated, especially with the genre going cutscene crazy these days.
"I took an arrow to the knee" doesn't need a cutscene; it can be just as entertaining when delivered by an NPC script (Lt. VanD takes arrows to the knee all the time, and should have an appropriately humorous response to it).
Problem solved.
Playing computer games is a "waste of time", end of story; singling out STO in that regard is unfair. Too many players engage in a self-defensive delusion that their game progress somehow matters, I suspect to avoid considering how much time / money they've spent on it.
There are games which have definable value, for honing mental skills or physical reslience and transferrable teamwork. I don't think any MMOs are in that category.
What was taken away was any way to level or gain spec points before your 100th birthday.
What was taken away was any way to level or gain spec points before your 100th birthday. But in one thing you are totally correct. Individual grind was taken away and now we all equally have a gigantic, time-gated grind that exists in balance throughout the game. The entire game, every aspect of it except Space Barbie just got time-gated, from ship mastery to end game spec levelling. Every player is now playing at the speed Cryptic wants. Total player control. Its devilishly genius, honestly.
Wait until the bonus xp weekend. It was a genius way for them to hide what's actually been done. Right now players are thinking the patch is amazeballs because the effects are hidden. The ONLY positive direction taken was addind dil to more things and returning normal queue rewards to pre-DR levels which is not a buff but a fix fir a terrible decision they made.
All will be made clear. Give it time.
And very clear at that.
We look at 2-3k SP upon successfully completion of an elite queued match. Critters there are as under-rewarding as it can be. With 8 SP on ground critters they may even keep the reward and spare me the info spam.
In other words 3 k instead of 1k. Thats the three fold increase Mr. Gray talked about, leaving everyone some 50 elite maps to do if one wishes to get 1 spec point out of there.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Elite queues? As if the average player can afford the Zen/dil/ec to get their gear to even attempt those queues? But as I said, its genius monotization under the guise of "buffs". The people running Cryptic are shrewd, shrewd business people. Of that, Ive never cast doubt.
Making an enjoyable game experience is another matter entirely.
Precisely my point. As I said, eventually the playerbase will come to understand.
Gz on it looks cool.
I still want to put emphasis on the grind free nature of the doff system cryptic likely will keep untouched till sector space revamp.
2 doff cycles a day grad me some 1 spec point/toon/week. Doesnt sound much but conforms with the grind free nature of the OP and is WAYS easier than getting SP anywhere in game now.
After re-reading Mr. Grays announcement on undertaken adjustments to game and the way they implemented in correlation with an SP weekend I just decided to skip that one all together and changed my weekend plans, not in favour of STO.
See you next week then.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Couldn't agree more. Might as well make this a Single Player game.
Yup , it took them 5 years to "master this new body" (errrr... I mean MMO) .
Unfortunately all they ended up doing is f#!king themselfs in the #$$ .
... woooppss , did I just say that out loud ... ??
So that's 6 hours a day, 7 days a week, for a grand total of 48 hours a week playing Star Trek Online. During which you were spending about 300 dollars a month. That's a second full time job that you're spending a car payment every month to do.
Now, I'm not trying to bust your chops about how you allegedly spend your time or money, I don't really care what you do or how much money you spend to do it. I'd just like to ask you if you really think your behavior is anywhere approaching what an average player invests into this game? If you really think that your example should serve as a warning to Cryptic about what is to come, and what masses of players will do in droves?
And, further more, how could this come as a surprise to you when, by your own admission, the max XP return was over 10 times removed from what is average for this game? Did you legitimately think that spamming the same mission over and over for 12 times the average reward was the game working as intended? And if so what informed that opinion? Was it the way they removed the Mirror Universe STF for being exploited in the exact same way? Or did you just hear enough conspiracy theories about Cryptic trying cook their metrics that you assumed you were in on the scam?
Now, don't get me wrong, it's not the exploiting that bothers me, exploit to your hearts content, it's the nature of gamers to figure out how to game a system. But why does everyone get so offended when the developers finally get around to patching the exploit that you've discovered?
Hahhahhaaaa .... ha ... ha-ha , yes is to new .... a few thousand years of culture and trading experience ... compared with .... hahaha ... nvm . Oh and say americans , not western customers
I challenge that claim. The crowds of ships around Argala and the pre-DR Infected Elite queue speed seems to strongly suggest otherwise.
Maybe you can't convince everyone - but the ones you can convince, they'll make still good business.
"No one has ever gone broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people...."
They will see it will take a new level 50 about 1 year to level to 60 then to fill the Intel spec tree up playing the game 2 hours a day 6 days a week
Wont that be like WOW from a new player , They will be so excited wont they !
Tuesday It will begin
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
that will delay the rage by a few days
You are right...I would wait to "describe it as brilliant" till we see the real data...wait till Monday to get real figures.
I'm not sure what the average playtime is for everyone, but if it takes you an average of four minutes to play through a patrol, by the time you finish going through all the patrols in a sector the cooldown on the first should be over. And if you really do burn through them that quickly, spend a few minutes doing upkeep on your doffs or something, or duck across the sector border and do some patrols in the next sector. Or replay a lucrative story mission. Or jump in a queue. Or something.
Point being, if patrol missions are what you enjoy (and I confess to greatly enjoying them for their own sake), it should be literally impossible--even with a 30-minute lockout timer--to be in a situation where there is no available patrol to run.
Eclipse Class Intel Cruiser U.S.S. Dioscuria NX-91121-A - Interactive Crew Roster