I know what I'm about to say may be "unpopular", but it does need to be said...
Despite the nerfings, ignorance, etc., there does happen to remain a small but extremely dedicated PvP community.
Said PvP community attempts to fight each other on a level playing field. This means that if player #1 has a fully filled spec tree, then everyone else needs a fully filled spec tree to be on the exact same strength/ability level as player #1.
Since PvE is, to the average PvPer, "boring" - the "predictable" AI is no challenge compared to a fellow NI (natural intelligence :P). Therefore, to reach player #1's level, the path of least resistance to doing so needs to be met.
And if you don't play 24/7 like PvPer #1, well, you want the quickest means available in your limited time.
Hence why XP-rich and mark/dil poor content like Argala was a godsend to them. This lets them hit "PvP readyness" in the shortest time possible...
BTW, these guys are gonna be quick on the zen to dil trigger to get the dil necessary to invest in their upgrades...
Here's the funny part, to me: Cryptic keeps saying they're trying to balance the rewards structure so that 15 min of ISA = 15 min of CCA = 15 min of BDA = 15 min of mission time = 15 minutes of patrol-du-jour.
However, it seems that every time a patrol winds up as being "significantly better" than the rest of the structure, they don't actually work on fixing it to being the same as the rest of the structure, they do weird things like time-gate it or nerf it to oblivion...
They finally got onto the page of "15 min of activity X" is going to give some dil / EC / XP (and usually marks), however, we don't know yet (and I'll be honestly surprised) if the desire of 15 min time = 15 min of identical reward yet or not.
I've said it before. Pages and pages of rage can be quelled if Cryptic would only go on record saying - as they've said with Dil once before - we are aiming for you to get X amount of stuffz in Y time. Last I heard, they wanted 8k Dil in 3.5 - 4 hours of play... Be nice if we heard that this is still a goal and what the expected XP, mark and EC payout(s) are planned for that 3.5-4 hour time window...
Then, when a place (Argala) pays greater than this rate with no corresponding decrease in a different "stuffz" - you know, like tour the galaxy might actually pay out scads of EC because it doesn't come with a marks prize and the dil payout is "standard" for 15 min of play - the playerbase can bring this to dev attention, next patch fixes it, and they can honestly scream "exploiter" if/when the playerbase abuses said overpaying area knowing that it is an abnormality...
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
The fact that the forum is divided on this update is probably a pretty good thing.
When most of us are on the same page, it's usually a bad sign.
It depends how you look at it. Do you look at the update as a whole, its more good than its bad. If you look at the XP, its more bad than good, because overall the XP/time is been nerfed.
I can understand if they want to time-lock patrols to make then like "The rest of the missions" But for christs sake the whole reason I did Argala on most of my toons was to be able to level up TO do the rest of the level locked missions, cause the exp requirements to level 51 and above are just too darn much for how little exp we get from the first time runs of the content.
Sure you can keep post max level/level 60 experience requirements the same for extra spec points, or even lower that a little bit, but at least make gaining experience from 51-60 from quests a little more fluid, that way we wouldn't even need Argala grind for that.
Nobody has to worry anymore that they are wasting time playing non-DR-patrol content, nobody has to worry that they could be doing something more efficient with their time.
Now, you just play what you think is fun, and there isn't any nagging bitterness that you could be progressing faster if you did something else.
They removed the grind from STO by removing grinding. Don't like grinding? Now y'ins can't grind.
Problem solved!
This also removes the issues with hardcore vs. casual gaming.
Locking the patrols so you can't grind them means that everyone is on the same page, everyone is in the same boat, and that boat moves at a casual and leisurely pace.
Nobody has to worry anymore that they are wasting time playing non-DR-patrol content, nobody has to worry that they could be doing something more efficient with their time.
Good news everybody, we have achieved true equality, everything is equally worthless.
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
I know what I'm about to say may be "unpopular", but it does need to be said...
Despite the nerfings, ignorance, etc., there does happen to remain a small but extremely dedicated PvP community.
Said PvP community attempts to fight each other on a level playing field. This means that if player #1 has a fully filled spec tree, then everyone else needs a fully filled spec tree to be on the exact same strength/ability level as player #1.
Since PvE is, to the average PvPer, "boring" - the "predictable" AI is no challenge compared to a fellow NI (natural intelligence :P). Therefore, to reach player #1's level, the path of least resistance to doing so needs to be met.
And if you don't play 24/7 like PvPer #1, well, you want the quickest means available in your limited time.
Hence why XP-rich and mark/dil poor content like Argala was a godsend to them. This lets them hit "PvP readyness" in the shortest time possible...
BTW, these guys are gonna be quick on the zen to dil trigger to get the dil necessary to invest in their upgrades...
Here's the funny part, to me: Cryptic keeps saying they're trying to balance the rewards structure so that 15 min of ISA = 15 min of CCA = 15 min of BDA = 15 min of mission time = 15 minutes of patrol-du-jour.
However, it seems that every time a patrol winds up as being "significantly better" than the rest of the structure, they don't actually work on fixing it to being the same as the rest of the structure, they do weird things like time-gate it or nerf it to oblivion...
They finally got onto the page of "15 min of activity X" is going to give some dil / EC / XP (and usually marks), however, we don't know yet (and I'll be honestly surprised) if the desire of 15 min time = 15 min of identical reward yet or not.
I've said it before. Pages and pages of rage can be quelled if Cryptic would only go on record saying - as they've said with Dil once before - we are aiming for you to get X amount of stuffz in Y time. Last I heard, they wanted 8k Dil in 3.5 - 4 hours of play... Be nice if we heard that this is still a goal and what the expected XP, mark and EC payout(s) are planned for that 3.5-4 hour time window...
Then, when a place (Argala) pays greater than this rate with no corresponding decrease in a different "stuffz" - you know, like tour the galaxy might actually pay out scads of EC because it doesn't come with a marks prize and the dil payout is "standard" for 15 min of play - the playerbase can bring this to dev attention, next patch fixes it, and they can honestly scream "exploiter" if/when the playerbase abuses said overpaying area knowing that it is an abnormality...
It'll take "Balls of Dstahl" +10 to get that sort of power from these dullards currently at Cryptic.
The grind for Specialization Points is long. I'm sure that's because they want people to spend lots of money while they're grinding.
But...
Cryptic...
Why would people spend lots of money while grinding for specialization points?
To buy the soon to be released "Transwarp Engines" or ships with new of such built in engines to cross the soon to be wall-less space sectors. Want to cross sectors in good time? Well step right up step right up we have got the new ship for you!
considering how much you have to go out of your way in order to grind
A time-gated grind is still a grind.
What do you do in this game that doesn't interact with one of the many grinds this game is built on? Replay episodes for the story? Because even though playing episodes itself is a grind, I'm as willing to forgo labeling them such as you are.
But really, outside the chat window, what in this game isn't involved with the grind in some way? What is so engaging that even normal people would perform it without some progress towards a grind involved?
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
Just a thought but... why not just put tehg ame back to the way it was before all this nonsense? get rid of instafails on STFs and make the game worth playing again?
I think what they've done, they've done with good intentions, but it's still not a fix.
Just a thought but... why not just put tehg ame back to the way it was before all this nonsense? get rid of instafails on STFs and make the game worth playing again?
I think what they've done, they've done with good intentions, but it's still not a fix.
I pray you're right Prierin.
However, it's going to take some "new eyes" to see what's happening here, right now in STO.
At the same time, however, just to "play the devil's advocate", Cryptic might be planning towards something altogether different than we could know.
What I mean is, sometimes companies do things that make all the shop floor workers go "Wut??" "Dat makes NO sense!"
And then, ten miles down the road, it all comes together to make something we are astounded by.
This is just my life experience given here in a nutshell.
You seriously underestimate how many chars I can park outside of Argala and grind up. I won't, but don't tell me there is no more grind.
Wow.. thank you I am sending all my toons there right now in protest. I am going to see how many fleet mates are willing to do the same. Maybe we should just make a farming fleet? All they did was slow down farming and make it so we have to go through a different box of tricks.
Remember, they don't sell spec points or sell a means to get them faster.
They have an xp boost in the c-store, but it would cost 15,000 zen to get enough of them for one spec point, which is not gonna happen.
This patch just puts everyone in the same boat, a boat that moves at a leisurely and casual pace.
They should. Just go the neverwinter way and allow you to buy completion of a story arc. The first Guild Wars, seperated PvP from PvE AND allowed you to buy unlocks to be good/equiped for PvP.
We can try to remain positve... but looking back since the release of LoR it hasn't exactly been going smoothly, has it?
The game feels like it's turning into a Rolls Canhardly....
Hardly, I get you think you need to make threads to feel "special", I get you even made a "I quit!" thread, but you get harder and harder to take seriously.
Game design is like a paradox, it is only a conflict between how things work and how you think things should work.
I have a routine I follow when I log on and specifically when I want to test a new build or abilities or gear or mods or just stay sharp. I buy a bunch of uncommon gear, outfit my ship, then go to Tau Dewa and run through the patrols on all difficulty. Do some red alerts. Afterwards I'll start my daily grind for EC and dil to upgrade what I like and rep - STF's, adventure zones, etc.
Now I find after running through a single patrol of Tau Dewa I have 720 dil, 6800 XP and 6800 specialization. Well damn. That's a nice change. Even with the time gate by the time I make the rounds I could start all over if I so choose. But I really don't have to. Reduces the amount of searching for dil and now I can play whatever I want and get rewarded for it.
I wouldn't say the grind is gone now that's a pretty optimistic conclusion considering what's actually changed.
The good is of course more xp for doing stuff other then patrol missions and dilithium rewards being added and increased in some cases.
The bad is that the delta patrols are now time gated and generate significantly less xp then they used to. This negatively impacts the leveling experience in the new expansion considering you don't get enough xp from the missions to continue on through the story line. Or there aren't enough missions take your pick. Either way it will make leveling in DR even more frustrating then it already was.
Yeah, but they removed the grind people were complaining so much about.
With the time lock on the argala mission, if you do it once, you can't do it again because it is locked, so you can't grind it.
You aren't saying the grind is gone then... your simply saying players can't grind the same patrols anymore. The overall grind within the game is still here, but now your forced to do it in other content. I would be happy about it except for the fact that the xp they've added doesn't match the payout of an argala run. So while players must find alternative content for leveling, which is good, the overall payout is less making the grind longer. Tho better or worse is a matter of perspective since it depends how you like to play. That's probably my biggest beef. Why time gate argala? Make the rewards elsewhere the same and pull people away from it that way, but no, instead they nerf the xp, time gate it then add a little more xp in other parts of the game and make it sound like some kind of xp buff.
Comments
Despite the nerfings, ignorance, etc., there does happen to remain a small but extremely dedicated PvP community.
Said PvP community attempts to fight each other on a level playing field. This means that if player #1 has a fully filled spec tree, then everyone else needs a fully filled spec tree to be on the exact same strength/ability level as player #1.
Since PvE is, to the average PvPer, "boring" - the "predictable" AI is no challenge compared to a fellow NI (natural intelligence :P). Therefore, to reach player #1's level, the path of least resistance to doing so needs to be met.
And if you don't play 24/7 like PvPer #1, well, you want the quickest means available in your limited time.
Hence why XP-rich and mark/dil poor content like Argala was a godsend to them. This lets them hit "PvP readyness" in the shortest time possible...
BTW, these guys are gonna be quick on the zen to dil trigger to get the dil necessary to invest in their upgrades...
Here's the funny part, to me: Cryptic keeps saying they're trying to balance the rewards structure so that 15 min of ISA = 15 min of CCA = 15 min of BDA = 15 min of mission time = 15 minutes of patrol-du-jour.
However, it seems that every time a patrol winds up as being "significantly better" than the rest of the structure, they don't actually work on fixing it to being the same as the rest of the structure, they do weird things like time-gate it or nerf it to oblivion...
They finally got onto the page of "15 min of activity X" is going to give some dil / EC / XP (and usually marks), however, we don't know yet (and I'll be honestly surprised) if the desire of 15 min time = 15 min of identical reward yet or not.
I've said it before. Pages and pages of rage can be quelled if Cryptic would only go on record saying - as they've said with Dil once before - we are aiming for you to get X amount of stuffz in Y time. Last I heard, they wanted 8k Dil in 3.5 - 4 hours of play... Be nice if we heard that this is still a goal and what the expected XP, mark and EC payout(s) are planned for that 3.5-4 hour time window...
Then, when a place (Argala) pays greater than this rate with no corresponding decrease in a different "stuffz" - you know, like tour the galaxy might actually pay out scads of EC because it doesn't come with a marks prize and the dil payout is "standard" for 15 min of play - the playerbase can bring this to dev attention, next patch fixes it, and they can honestly scream "exploiter" if/when the playerbase abuses said overpaying area knowing that it is an abnormality...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
Oh well, guess im spending even less time in this game now.
It depends how you look at it. Do you look at the update as a whole, its more good than its bad. If you look at the XP, its more bad than good, because overall the XP/time is been nerfed.
Sure you can keep post max level/level 60 experience requirements the same for extra spec points, or even lower that a little bit, but at least make gaining experience from 51-60 from quests a little more fluid, that way we wouldn't even need Argala grind for that.
A'yep. That dog don't hunt!
But...
Cryptic...
Why would people spend lots of money while grinding for specialization points?
Free Tibet!
It'll take "Balls of Dstahl" +10 to get that sort of power from these dullards currently at Cryptic.
When it's over I'm sure people will start complaining again.
To buy the soon to be released "Transwarp Engines" or ships with new of such built in engines to cross the soon to be wall-less space sectors. Want to cross sectors in good time? Well step right up step right up we have got the new ship for you!
The only grind is the grind you choose.
Really....:P:P:P
considering how much you have to go out of your way in order to grind, I would say its very much the players's choice
What do you do in this game that doesn't interact with one of the many grinds this game is built on? Replay episodes for the story? Because even though playing episodes itself is a grind, I'm as willing to forgo labeling them such as you are.
But really, outside the chat window, what in this game isn't involved with the grind in some way? What is so engaging that even normal people would perform it without some progress towards a grind involved?
I think what they've done, they've done with good intentions, but it's still not a fix.
I pray you're right Prierin.
However, it's going to take some "new eyes" to see what's happening here, right now in STO.
At the same time, however, just to "play the devil's advocate", Cryptic might be planning towards something altogether different than we could know.
What I mean is, sometimes companies do things that make all the shop floor workers go "Wut??" "Dat makes NO sense!"
And then, ten miles down the road, it all comes together to make something we are astounded by.
This is just my life experience given here in a nutshell.
WE Can Only Hope!!
Wow.. thank you I am sending all my toons there right now in protest. I am going to see how many fleet mates are willing to do the same. Maybe we should just make a farming fleet? All they did was slow down farming and make it so we have to go through a different box of tricks.
Oh and a lot more players stopped playing...
Click to Join armadafleet.org/
We can try to remain positve... but looking back since the release of LoR it hasn't exactly been going smoothly, has it?
The game feels like it's turning into a Rolls Canhardly....
They should. Just go the neverwinter way and allow you to buy completion of a story arc. The first Guild Wars, seperated PvP from PvE AND allowed you to buy unlocks to be good/equiped for PvP.
If it sells, why not offer it?
Hardly, I get you think you need to make threads to feel "special", I get you even made a "I quit!" thread, but you get harder and harder to take seriously.
Game design is like a paradox, it is only a conflict between how things work and how you think things should work.
Now I find after running through a single patrol of Tau Dewa I have 720 dil, 6800 XP and 6800 specialization. Well damn. That's a nice change. Even with the time gate by the time I make the rounds I could start all over if I so choose. But I really don't have to. Reduces the amount of searching for dil and now I can play whatever I want and get rewarded for it.
This makes a lot of sense. Impressed.
The good is of course more xp for doing stuff other then patrol missions and dilithium rewards being added and increased in some cases.
The bad is that the delta patrols are now time gated and generate significantly less xp then they used to. This negatively impacts the leveling experience in the new expansion considering you don't get enough xp from the missions to continue on through the story line. Or there aren't enough missions take your pick. Either way it will make leveling in DR even more frustrating then it already was.
You just have to switch toons. Park six characters outside Argala, by the time number six is finished, number one can start again.
Problem solved ^^
And a merry freaking Christmas to you too, Ebenezer.
-jonsills, 'Cryptic Why the sales..instead of Fixing XP leveling and this game?'
You aren't saying the grind is gone then... your simply saying players can't grind the same patrols anymore. The overall grind within the game is still here, but now your forced to do it in other content. I would be happy about it except for the fact that the xp they've added doesn't match the payout of an argala run. So while players must find alternative content for leveling, which is good, the overall payout is less making the grind longer. Tho better or worse is a matter of perspective since it depends how you like to play. That's probably my biggest beef. Why time gate argala? Make the rewards elsewhere the same and pull people away from it that way, but no, instead they nerf the xp, time gate it then add a little more xp in other parts of the game and make it sound like some kind of xp buff.