I am not deluding myself on anything. Nor am I buying anything I don't want to buy. You talk about RPers as if they're some bug on your windshield. So people like to RP, that's find and dandy, but don't disrespect them, or other people who don't want to run around in high DPS builds. Frankly, you're sounding like an elitist jerk of the highest caliber.
Maybe you should step down off your high horse for a few, just be sure someone doesn't move the stepladder so you don't fall and break the ground.
What is elitist about wanting to play a game with other people who are not setting themselves up to loose.
I have no issues with some RP. I don't seek it out but I play along now and then cause its fun. Now that I think about it... never mind I have RPed evil Klink in Kerrat on more then one occasion.
Heck its the RP people that have complained about the auto fails more then anyone isn't it...
The fact is I can't send nice friendly "could I make a few build suggestions" PMs to every bad player in this game. There are to many of them. I have tried for 5 years... I have helped plenty of people sure... and learned a few things here and there from others no doubt. Lets be honest though the level of SUCK is at an all time high. Its up to Cryptic to help them at this point... I don't care if its pre built ships... Pre set loadout sales... or simple "Advanced Ship Training" missions, that can be as role play friendly as people like. (in fact they would be cooler if they where super RP heavy Training missions). Cryptic has put the training of the games newer players off on us... or forced us to use private channels and leave them to there own suck. Both aren't great options imo, I would like to be able to public que and NOT want to kill anyone.
Every anecdote from people who have mastered or have begun mastering the game is the same; they, the individual, put in the time to research and explore STO outside of the in-game environment.
No one, not even Cryptic, is willing to just hand you knowledge. Yes, Cryptic would be well served to introduce something similar to the keying quests used to further gate content in other MMOs. Such content could serve a dual purpose of keeping out the truly awful while providing a great venue to teach players specific skills they need to advance. SquareEnix already does this with great success in FFXIV:ARR; every group encounter, starting at level 15, begins pushing you to adapt and learn better mechanics.
Granted, Cryptic seems to believe deeply that the more opaque their mechanics are, the better it is for them. But Cryptic is extremely short sighted and a terrible example of the right way of doing things.
You're completely ignoring a huge part of why many players cannot improve; they refuse to believe that they themselves could at all be a part, even just a tiny part, of the problem. No surprise that they're incapable of taking criticism, constructive criticism, or, too often, even friendly advice.
You seem to be content with your 7k DPS Guardian, but if I told you that with a few small changes you could make it an even better heal/support ship, would you react negatively to that as well?
Would it come across any better if it was an NPC saying the same thing to you during a solo mission (ie if the developer was telling you, nicely, that you suck)?
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
I'm thinking people are missing the potential of giving players an optional learning tool,and misreading the suggestion as a "do this or gtfo".
As I see it, many players don't get advice on what works well together and what doesn't. Trial and error, in this game, can be quite frustrating.
Giving people a pre-built Lego set they can take apart, change, and modify gives them an option, and example of some things that are effective. Could easily build variants from canon style to high damage to to control to support. Not locking anyone into a playstyle, not forcing anything on anyone, not removing any options. But saying, "if this is your goal here's one way to get there".
Its much easier to modify than build from scratch. Its much easier to figure out "your way" when you can look at "his way," and "her way". That's why classic training for artists and writers started with copying existing works, then moved to original creations. Same concept. A tool for creativity, not chains or limits.
One, welcome to the dangers of PUGs. The same danger that has existed since time began and those little ba$tards crawled out of the oceans and populated every MMO that allowed them. You take your chances being teamed with everyone you, in your all-knowing and epic wisdom, do not deem worthy to be in the same instance with you.
Two, if this game was designed to only be played with a set few types of builds/ships/weapons/etc., then the designers would have made it that way. Instead you are a part of a Massively Multi-player Online game that was designed to be fun for the most number of players (not just you and your fellow elitists).
Three, rather than complain about other players' options, why don't you exercise one or two of your own. There are closed-team settings and fleets and chat channels all right up your alley for you to meet, maintain contact with, and group only with fellow elitists like yourself.
Now go, run off with your little friends into some deep dark Elite STF corner of the galaxy and leave the rest of the game to us.
EDIT: I pay (paid) Cryptic/PWE (not you) to play this game. I'm not teaming with you (I detest PUGs myself and don't do STFs if I can avoid it). Don't tell me how to play my game and don't try to TRIBBLE my game unless you personally plan on compensating me for it.
I am running for chancellor and I approve this message.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I was Klingon before Klingon was cool.
There's nothing wrong with wanting to play the game the way YOU want to play it. Where it turns elitist is when you start posting condescending TRIBBLE like you've been posting, looking down your elitist nose at people who don't want to fly around in super DPS ships.
Frankly, I don't want to fly with people like you because of your super-elite attitude of 'Fly a super-DPS ship or GTFO STO!'
Now a LTS and loving it.
Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.
I have come to the conclusion that I have a memory like Etch-A-Sketch. I shake my head and forget everything.
EDIT: I pay (paid) Cryptic/PWE (not you) to play this game. I'm not teaming with you (I detest PUGs myself and don't do STFs if I can avoid it). Don't tell me how to play my game and don't try to TRIBBLE my game unless you personally plan on compensating me for it.
Frankly, I don't want to fly with people like you because of your super-elite attitude of 'Fly a super-DPS ship or GTFO STO!'
Right back at you. If you're not willing to put in even the slightest effort to perfect your craft, even if it's something as non-DPSy as always rocking the best put together costumes/outfits, then you're not worth playing with.
If you approach MMOs with the same attitude that DMV employees show towards the poor saps forced to deal with them, you're not worth playing with.
On a slightly related note, I'm hardly a hardcore player, though I do often engage MMOs with something approaching a hardcore mentality, I would literally need to train myself to be able to RP reasonably (though there it is again, me doing something to improve myself...).
But, I find it very interesting that the genre took a tremendous nose dive since it bought into the idea of coddling casuals. Even the almighty WoW stumbled on this same idiotic idea.
Meanwhile, every game I've come across which casuals seem to support, is a ghost town for the bulk of the day. The game may be MM for the few hours a week you may play (unless you're one of those total hypocrite casuals who puts in more time than I ever would), but the rest of the time it's more like SAO - So Alone Online.
I don't know what to call such a game, but MMO doesn't really seem apt. Seeing as casuals are adverse to anything competitive, and at its essence an MMO is one big e-peen stroke fest, why do casuals continue to insist they actually like MMOs?
Wouldn't you be happier with a nice single player RPG?
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
You know... if you are going to insult people for no reason, you may want to run your very condescending posts through a spell-checker, first.
You are totally mutilating the proper forms of "You're", "their", and "it's". For goodness sake; if you are going to insult people and you can barely spell, you really come across like an inept moron.
Please, show me these "rules" Cryptic has. No, really, I'll wait. I want a link to where someone on the Dev team as specifically said: "This game is all about who has the highest DPS, and if you don't have excruciatingly high levels of it, then you're playing wrong and need to leave." Show me where it was said. No one is playing the game "wrong"; not everyone is playing how you want them to, is what I think you meant to say.
Get over yourself, remove your head from your TRIBBLE, and stop taking a video game so seriously.
Its true I have no editor when I post here. I can also not be bothered to re read my posts all that often.
Cryptics rules aren't written... and that IS THE PROBLEM.
There rules are clear to anyone that understands video games. The missions can not be beaten without a mix of DPS and Control. You can pass them with to much of either, but if you have neither you fail.
As far as Cryptic not being clear that DPS is the way to go... best reread this.
I will admit they are not clearly saying... bring DPS or don't bother... really though that is exactly how they have setup the missions.
Some highlights;
"We expect you to not just be outfitted in great gear, but have become proficient in the Normal and Advanced versions of the events as well."
"These queues are designed to test our best and most powerful Captains in the game."
"Enemies on Elite will hit significantly harder and be harder to kill, and at the same time, the missions themselves will take clockwork precision to complete." (read this as saying LESS TIME, MORE DPS needed)
"You will also want some top-end gear, and for space, the best possible ship."
I'm thinking people are missing the potential of giving players an optional learning tool,and misreading the suggestion as a "do this or gtfo".
As I see it, many players don't get advice on what works well together and what doesn't. Trial and error, in this game, can be quite frustrating.
Giving people a pre-built Lego set they can take apart, change, and modify gives them an option, and example of some things that are effective. Could easily build variants from canon style to high damage to to control to support. Not locking anyone into a playstyle, not forcing anything on anyone, not removing any options. But saying, "if this is your goal here's one way to get there".
Its much easier to modify than build from scratch. Its much easier to figure out "your way" when you can look at "his way," and "her way". That's why classic training for artists and writers started with copying existing works, then moved to original creations. Same concept. A tool for creativity, not chains or limits.
Eve does a good job of the teaching missions / Gear.
They have missions setup for as many of the basic game play styles as possible... the mission agents give you gear to use in those missions "civilian" class gear... that only works in those training missions. You take your little ship, you slot the civilian stuff they gave you and they walk you through how it works. In this way you learn combat / hauling / Electronic combat ... ect ect. You also get an idea of what each type of gear is used for in a real game situation. Its not perfect but at least in that game if you are talking to someone completely new... you can suggest they go take a few hours and run those missions and then ask any questions they have. I would say something like that in STO wouldn't be a bad idea. "Have you run, the academies Advanced Combat Training?"... go run that and then I can help you with your build if you like. Would be a lot less frustrating for everyone.
Lordy, you lot are full of all kinds of TRIBBLE, aren't you? Well, when you can get back to me with concrete proof, showing us casual peons how we should be playing, and I want word from the Devs themselves, now, then I'll build nothing but excruciatingly high DPS boats.
You have no right how to tell others how to play, and I'm terribly sorry if that bursts your bubble. I've been here since pre-beta; there have never been any "rules" for how to play the game. You're just pissed that not everyone plays the way you think they should.
If you want an MMO that only allows hardcore players, create your own. Once created, have a very thorough application process, so you only get the best, most hardcore and dedicated players the gaming world has to offer. Otherwise...? Tough TRIBBLE, honey; you either learn to play with casuals, or check out of the gaming world for good. You can't tell people how to play. Period. It does not work that way now, and it never will.
A couple of you are very conceited and condescending. Mind if I have your global handles? You know, so I can ignore you in-game and never run the risk of teaming with you? Thanks much! =D
Don't get me wrong Virus I'm not saying everyone should be doing 40+K DPS and blasting through things.
I'm ok with taking awhile to finish a pug match.... it just seems there are plenty of people that have ZERO clue about the missions or how there ships are supposed to work.
In your run you only had one rainbow boat at least.
Obviously your group had CONTROL... cause if you hadn't you would have failed.
If that group you pointed out was doing stupid things like throwing there Gravity wells on gates ect while mission failing NPC ships where moving along to there objectives you would have failed.
I know in most MMOs you can say the same types of things about the "dungeon' type combat. However most of them don't have it on a "Quick Que" When they do they generally do a better job of letting people know what they should be doing or bringing into those missions.
When I used to play this game a lot sure I would just run groups from DPS channels and such... and things where always in and out... it was also boring no doubt. So I would pug a few here and there just cause... and mostly they where smooth... but at least when they where not I didn't have to deal with the Auto Fail TRIBBLE. With the Auto fail now you would think most of these bad pug players would adapt... I mean obviously they fail often, you would think they would start changing there builds. I know there not all Hardcore RPers.
Oh, don't get me wrong...I've done my rage posts about folks showing up doing less than 2k or those folks that are off chasing butterflies like they've got no clue what to do...and the obvious trolls that sabotage things (maybe that's one of the reasons this one was so cool to me, lol, the last one I ran had somebody R-TBR the Nanites into the Trans...sigh)...
I just don't see tossing boats at folks with builds fixing anything. I guess I started up recently harping on four things, so I'm kind of stuck on them...they're all educational and things that came to mind after a few folks said that I may be taking things for granted. So I tried to think of some basic things that I perhaps took for granted that could adversely affect the outcome of an ISA run...and other runs.
1) Subsystem Power, mainly Weapon Power. Not everybody's sporting an AMP core nor running Nukara Offensive/Defensive, but the vast majority of folks out there are running Energy Weapons. Each point of Weapon Power is a 2% damage modifier. 50 Weapon Power means Energy Weapons are doing 100% of their damage. 100 Weapon Power is 200% and 125 is 250%.
...with it being 1 + (Weapon Power Boost) to determine the modifier to damage...so 1.5 + 1...2.5 times the damage. With weapons draining that Weapon Power, that number goes down...and...damage can take a major hit from that happening if the Weapon Power level is set low to start with or steps aren't taken to boost it or reduce the drain. Which is where we get into things like Emergency Power to Weapons, that 2pc combo with the Assimilated Module and Cutting Beam, folks running Marion with DEM, running a Core with drain reduction, etc, etc, etc.
The better one is able to maintain a higher Weapon Power level, the more damage they will be able to do...and it can be a pretty significant difference.
2) Range Penalty. Both Beams and Cannons experience a range penalty to their damage. The penalty is more severe for Cannons than Beams.
So just inside 5km, Cannons are doing 72.5% and Beams are doing 84.0%. Get out to just inside 10km, Cannons are down to 40.0% and Beams are down to 64.0%.
There's nothing that really jumps out to tell a player any of that's going on with the range. So unless they spend too much time testing things and buried in spreadsheets or reading posts from folks that spend too much time testing things and buried in spreadsheets...it's just not something that might come to mind to them.
The better one is able to maintain certain ranges with weapons, the more damage they will be able to do...and it can be a pretty significant difference.
3) If you're not attacking, you're not doing damage. This one gets a little more complex, and gets into finding a path through the content and being able to adapt that path to what others are doing around you.
Okay, some time for bad forum doodles...
Pp = Player Parking
Pm = Player Moving
T = Target(s)
Pp <---10km---> T <---15km---> T <---15km---> T, etc, etc, etc.
T <---5km---> Pm <---10km---> T <---15km---> T, etc, etc, etc.
So with Pp there, they're sitting on the far side of the target out at 10km. When that target is gone, their next target is 25km away. They've got to travel at least 15km so they can get to 10km to start shooting again. Then they'll repeat that over and over - that combination of not doing anything while traveling and eating the range penalty.
But with Pm there, they've continued moving - they're flying by that target toward the next target while attacking in motion. As they continue to do this, even though they'll be temporarily eating some range penalty - they're still doing constant damage rather than experience that downtime.
It's just a case of getting down some sort of pathing. I like to double-tap Full Impulse for the burst into the first engagement, veering a little to the right so as I come around to the left I'm ready to pop Evasive after the Ops window is cleared and be on my way to the left Trans. Which I'll tend to fly past further left, so as Cube and Gens are gone I'm heading toward the right and the Nanites. Which I'll try to keep to the right of me, so that as they're gone I'm ready to hit Evasive and Rock 'n Roll to get past the Gateway over on my way to the right Trans. Where again I'll try to go further right, so that as everything goes boom I'm already heading left toward the second batch of Nanites as well as the Tac Cube/Gateway.
Course, depending on what's going on - may have to head over to the Nanites to GW them or grab them in a R-TBR to drag them away. If I don't have that handy but I'm in a really tanky boat, I'll just park in front of the first Nanite and cause a traffic jam as their AI is unable to realize they could just fly around me...lol. Sometimes it might be a case of having to pop an Engine Battery to try to get back to the Trans.
The better one is able to work some kind of path through the run, the more damage they will be able to do...and it can be a pretty significant difference.
4) Basic knowledge of the instance. Sticking with the ISA example, the average run is going to be taking out the Cube/Spheres, heading left, taking out the Cube/Gens and Trans, taking out the Spheres/Nanite Spheres, heading right, taking out the Cube/Gens and Trans, taking out the Spheres/Nanite Spheres, taking out the Tac Cube/Gateway either one at a time or together.
If folks start chasing that original Sphere and the spawned Spheres (not Nanites coming through the Gateway, just the Sphers that spawn by the Trans after a Gen is dropped), then they're not helping to get the other Gens down and then the Trans. That's removing potentially needed DPS...which can result in the Trans not being taken down before the Nanites get there if the group lacks the crowd control. Group might have had more than enough DPS, but it was just a case of it not being applied against the appropriate targets to prevent the failure.
The better one has some basic knowledge of the mission, the smoother the run of that mission will be...and it can be a pretty significant difference.
. . . . .
Obviously as one starts running with different groups, as one starts doing more DPS, gets into various scenarios of this, that, or the other - obviously that sort of stuff is going to change. The fundamentals will remain the same...but the particulars would change; but that would get into #4 some and learning how the folks are running it at that level.
I think in one thread I broke down some examples of what could happen from that combination of Weapon Power, Range Penalty, and downtime...it can be a pretty damn significant difference in the DPS one is doing. But it's not just going to be about DPS either...if somebody's looking to do some tank stuff, they need their Subsystem Power working for that - need to be in position to grab that aggro and take the hits - etc, etc, etc. Debuff? Same. Heal? Same. Sure, they were mainly covered from a DPS angle above - but they're basic fundamentals for almost anything that somebody might be trying to do, yeah?
* * * * *
I'm going to drop this in here at the bottom, since I don't feel like using up my 120s reply thing for it.
You have no right how to tell others how to play...
If somebody is off playing by themselves, then nope - nobody has the right to tell them how to play. The moment somebody decides to queue for content where they are not playing by themselves, then they should be open to advice on how to best contribute to the successful completion of that content. That doesn't mean changing everything that somebody's doing, but if that player is not working toward the successful completion of the content in some way...then that player needs to GTFO, imho. They're just trolling, leeching, or whatever the case may be. They need to stop being so selfish and put a little effort into a team friendly build/learning how the instance is done.
Sure, if somebody comes along and says everybody needs to do 20-30k DPS for content that only requires 6-8k DPS from folks...I'm right there telling them to go to their favorite park, sit on their thumb, and hum some Miley Cyrus song. But if a player is showing up for content that requires 6-8k and is doing 1-2k or even less...then yeah, they need to open themselves up to some advice.
Lordy, you lot are full of all kinds of TRIBBLE, aren't you? Well, when you can get back to me with concrete proof, showing us casual peons how we should be playing, and I want word from the Devs themselves, now, then I'll build nothing but excruciatingly high DPS boats.
You have no right how to tell others how to play, and I'm terribly sorry if that bursts your bubble. I've been here since pre-beta; there have never been any "rules" for how to play the game. You're just pissed that not everyone plays the way you think they should.
If you want an MMO that only allows hardcore players, create your own. Once created, have a very thorough application process, so you only get the best, most hardcore and dedicated players the gaming world has to offer. Otherwise...? Tough TRIBBLE, honey; you either learn to play with casuals, or check out of the gaming world for good. You can't tell people how to play. Period. It does not work that way now, and it never will.
A couple of you are very conceited and condescending. Mind if I have your global handles? You know, so I can ignore you in-game and never run the risk of teaming with you? Thanks much! =D
Why so angry ?
Seriously... did I hurt your feeling because I said if you are constantly failing Elite Mode PvE, your annoying other players. Well you are. If your ship isn't capable of completing that content I could care less. If all you do is que up for normal why would I care.
However if you know your ship can't hack it, and you obviously haven't asked for help, or gotten the proper advice. (I can only assume when I see a constant stream of people unable to complete the content in the ques) Then yes I have to ask what is it CRYPTIC should be doing to help you. I am just another player... Its not my job to stop every rainbow boat... or suboptimal ship and ask nicely if they would like some advice. I do help people when they ask sure... over the last few years I have lost count. This game has mostly been populated by pretty cool people that have no issues asking for advice. (I am no different, plenty of times I have asked people "what was that you used... or how did you manage X so fast" there answers have helped me as well).
I'm not talking about the fine tuning style tweaks though. I am seeing people with clearly POOR ship designs in Elite Ques. Stuff that by the time they get to level 60+ some Cryptic mission they ran... or some bit of common sense should have corrected.
I understand people running RP style ships... and honestly MANY of them are perfectly fine for Elite content and I would never complain about them. I don't care if you want to bring your Star Fleet issue ship... loaded with Phasers and Photons. Setup right that type of ship will do more then fine. I'm sorry there is no RP excuse for ONE Tet / ONE disruptor / ONE AP / ONE Transphasic torp / and 4 mines in the back.... cause I have HONESTLY seen that exact setup in the Elite Ques. lmao
Is the exact type of stuff Cryptic needs to roll into an "Academy Training" series.
They should do a better job of explaining Power levels and what they mean to you...
Speeds and what they do for Defense...
Weapon ranges... even explaining arcs ect.
Buff stacking... and how to rack up dmg and healing...
They could explain properly... Defense / Resistance... and active heals.
This is basic info that players should not have to be the ones teaching.
In fact they should have a set of 2-3 Academy missions for EVERY STF that are required before the Elite version of the que is unlocked. Would it be annoying for those of us with lots of alts... yes... but would it be more annoying then constantly running into ques with people that simply don't know ?
I'm not saying there bad people or even bad players... they just obviously don't understand the game as well as they could. Cryptic COULD fix that.
And this is why people struggle. Because no one is willing to give friendly advice. Its all "You suck! GTFO N00B!"
Also want to point out that, "You suck! GTFO N00B!" implies you're already in the content; that's not the best place to seek friendly advice. I know, I know, "seeking" implies your taking an active role, but you'll get better responses than if you try to learn by weighing your team down, without even discussing as much with them, no less.
Well, when you can get back to me with concrete proof, showing us casual peons how we should be playing, and I want word from the Devs themselves, now, then I'll build nothing but excruciatingly high DPS boats.
Apparently the only thing concrete said about how to play the game is that 480 dil should require fifteen minutes of play time to earn.
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
And this is why people struggle. Because no one is willing to give friendly advice. Its all "You suck! GTFO N00B!"
And I am not a troll just because I do around 7k consistantly with my Guardian. Excuse me for not upgrading from mk XII purple phasers. It may not be a DPS beast, but its consistant, and isn't a cookie cutter build that doesn't fit my playstyle.
Same. 9k. That's up from my 6k at LoR. So I am an improved noob.
Lordy, you lot are full of all kinds of TRIBBLE, aren't you? Well, when you can get back to me with concrete proof, showing us casual peons how we should be playing, and I want word from the Devs themselves, now, then I'll build nothing but excruciatingly high DPS boats.
You have no right how to tell others how to play, and I'm terribly sorry if that bursts your bubble. I've been here since pre-beta; there have never been any "rules" for how to play the game. You're just pissed that not everyone plays the way you think they should.
If you want an MMO that only allows hardcore players, create your own. Once created, have a very thorough application process, so you only get the best, most hardcore and dedicated players the gaming world has to offer. Otherwise...? Tough TRIBBLE, honey; you either learn to play with casuals, or check out of the gaming world for good. You can't tell people how to play. Period. It does not work that way now, and it never will.
A couple of you are very conceited and condescending. Mind if I have your global handles? You know, so I can ignore you in-game and never run the risk of teaming with you? Thanks much! =D
Stop trying to tell people how to play.
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
Cryptic did... if you bring a team of 5 people that all do 4k DPS and don't have or understand how to use there control skills into ANY Advanced STF.
...and you just proved the point.
NOT EVERYONE PLAYS STFs!
...and...
STOP PUGGING!
You're arrogantly and selfishly standing on your soapbox screaming at Cryptic, the other players, and the world that they should pigeonhole everyone because they don't suit your "needs" when it's you that chooses to PUG an isolated portion of the game and subject yourself to teaming with players you despise.
You're doing this to yourself. The game mechanics and features allow you to avoid this frustration. Once again, make contact with others like yourself, get into closed teams, queue up in private, then you won't have this problem.
Here's your sign.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
I used to be terrible when I started years ago. Then I started asking questions to any experienced player who was willing to lend a newb a hand, and I would spend time regularly studying builds on stoacademy, and I studied the wiki. Now I'm no longer the terrible player I once was.
The point is the person most able to help a terrible player is himself.
You're arrogantly and selfishly standing on your soapbox screaming at Cryptic, the other players, and the world that they should pigeonhole everyone because they don't suit your "needs" when it's you that chooses to PUG an isolated portion of the game and subject yourself to teaming with players you despise.
You're doing this to yourself. The game mechanics and features allow you to avoid this frustration. Once again, make contact with others like yourself, get into closed teams, queue up in private, then you won't have this problem.
Here's your sign.
I tried this approach in these forums the last time this came up. The result was that you (as a NOOB) have no right playing anything at all that might affect other people who are non-noobs. If you are LTS or Gold, your money spent for the content does not equal theirs because you suck and they don't. Normal difficulty is for you. It's where you belong. However, please note that these folks can and will come into your normal queues and kill things so fast that people get AFK penalties because they can't shoot anything fast enough to do enough damage before it is dead. Then some of them still feel the need to tell the other 4 how much they suck as they leave for their AFK timeout. But that is perfectly fine. They can come trash the normals for the little DPS people but the little DPS people are not allowed to even think of going into advanced.
And by all the upbeefing that keeps going on, Cryptic agrees.
Please just sell ships with Hard fixed weapons and consoles. Develop a system to let people upgrade them a bit if you want to try to make some extra cash.
BUT Stop giving people options.
Cause when you give them options they start thinking the stupidest things you can imagine are good ideas for there ship builds.
I am sick of popping in now and then to play this game and realizing that a quick PvE Que is a no go because the average player in this game is beyond help.
Just spoon feed them please. There is no excuse for ships doing under 10k DPS anymore. The only conclusion is that players doing under that are Trolls / RPers that might as well be trolls... or just not intelligent enough to realize the game design is DPS DPS DPS....
Some stuff just won't work folks... One of each weapon type... Torp/Beam/Single Canon/Torp... ect ect.
Just sell them preset STF Approved ships... they need it.
I have seen players do 50k DPs with mix torp, beam builds or 80k dps with rainbow builds.
I can also use mk 12 stuff and still deal 30k dps. Some can even do commons and still deal 50k dps.
DPS is more of piloting than gears. Gear helps. But if your piloting skill is very sub par, any ship will be subpar.
And the stagnation of piloting skill is more of thinking that your build and piloting is sufficient without any room for improvement.
The entire basis of the rant can be summarised as :
Self-righteous elitism is a toxic fact of life when it comes to MMO's...
People like the OP seem to think they are some special little snowflake and that everyone should bend to their whims, and look out anyone who might actually disrupt their perfect game play experience...
Rather than berating such players, as someone with a bit of experience, perhaps you should have actually tried to assist these people that you speak of, rather than come here barking bull**** about changing fundamental principles of STO because they no longer suit you...
I tried this approach in these forums the last time this came up. The result was that you (as a NOOB) have no right playing anything at all that might affect other people who are non-noobs. If you are LTS or Gold, your money spent for the content does not equal theirs because you suck and they don't. Normal difficulty is for you. It's where you belong. However, please note that these folks can and will come into your normal queues and kill things so fast that people get AFK penalties because they can't shoot anything fast enough to do enough damage before it is dead. Then some of them still feel the need to tell the other 4 how much they suck as they leave for their AFK timeout. But that is perfectly fine. They can come trash the normals for the little DPS people but the little DPS people are not allowed to even think of going into advanced.
And by all the upbeefing that keeps going on, Cryptic agrees.
Either of those scenarios is not a lot of fun for people. If you have had people do that to you in normal then you should understand the frustration of having under geared/experienced players hitting up the Elite Ques.
The best solution would be for Cryptic to take it out of peoples hands. Keep a record of everyones Average DPS/HPS/Compete times... ect and auto team people in the ques based on this data. Remove the idea of Elite / Adv / Normal... and just adjust the que based on the people playing. If 3 people on the team can handle advanced... and one Elite and one Normal.. then start an Advanced mode... ect.
For the record I don't hate people that I don't think can handle Elites... they have every right to be there. I simply wish Cryptic would make it easier for them to do better... train them if need be or simply sell them equipped ships. I don't really care.
I could go hide in Private DPS channels like everyone else... or I can tell it like it is. The average player in this game is BAD. Cryptic could do more to make the majority of them OK.
The entire basis of the rant can be summarised as :
Self-righteous elitism is a toxic fact of life when it comes to MMO's...
People like the OP seem to think they are some special little snowflake and that everyone should bend to their whims, and look out anyone who might actually disrupt their perfect game play experience...
Rather than berating such players, as someone with a bit of experience, perhaps you should have actually tried to assist these people that you speak of, rather than come here barking bull**** about changing fundamental principles of STO because they no longer suit you...
4,465 Posts... let me tell you the Cryptic hate posts only happened around 4,200. lol
I am done trying to educate people how to play the easiest of all the MMOS I play. Its not up to me to inform people what the game design is.
The fact that I can come in here and state the obvious... "STFS are about DPS / Control" and have people argue wtih me... asking me to "Prove it". Says it all.
Cryptic needs to do a better job teaching there players how to play there game.
Honestly thinking more... no Pre built ships won't really work... however Some low level missions that are REQUIRED to play that teach people the games basic mechanics couldn't possibly be a bad thing.
For the record I don't hate people that I don't think can handle Elites... they have every right to be there. I simply wish Cryptic would make it easier for them to do better... train them if need be or simply sell them equipped ships. I don't really care.
I could go hide in Private DPS channels like everyone else... or I can tell it like it is. The average player in this game is BAD. Cryptic could do more to make the majority of them OK.
For every 1 PuG, there is around 20-40 in private queues.
Disadvantage of the PuG are:
1) Cannot leave the mission without leaver penalty and reform group
2) If you have subpar build
3) if you have decent build but cannot carry the group which assume cannot carry their own load
4) populated by leechers and griefers
#1,#4 should be sufficient reason not to PuG. #3 or #2 can easily solve by you.
New players dont do PuGs unless someone who lacks the knowledge or just trolling ingame or in the forums tells them that they should.
You cannot really pump up the PuG population since it is the STO community that went to the private queues.
New players have equal access to PuGs and private queues. You can click PuGs the same way you can create a private room.
Is the exact type of stuff Cryptic needs to roll into an "Academy Training" series.
They should do a better job of explaining Power levels and what they mean to you...
Speeds and what they do for Defense...
Weapon ranges... even explaining arcs ect.
Buff stacking... and how to rack up dmg and healing...
They could explain properly... Defense / Resistance... and active heals.
This is basic info that players should not have to be the ones teaching.
In fact they should have a set of 2-3 Academy missions for EVERY STF that are required before the Elite version of the que is unlocked. Would it be annoying for those of us with lots of alts... yes... but would it be more annoying then constantly running into ques with people that simply don't know ?
I'm not saying there bad people or even bad players... they just obviously don't understand the game as well as they could. Cryptic COULD fix that.
Lol, starts to make me feel bad...guess there are all sorts of things I kind of take for granted having learned them or having been taught them by folks over the years.
Outside of other bonuses/boosts, a parked ship has -15% Bonus Defense. Depending on if one goes with the 0% vs. 0% results in a 100% to-hit or they scratch their head at the Bonus Accuracy tooltip stating that it is 95%. Everything I've seen, including the old spreadsheet Geko did points to it being 100%...but that tooltip is there all the same...hrmm. Tooltips...are fun. But anyway, outside of other bonuses or boosts, that parked ship is eating a -15% Bonus Defense penalty which is going to result in Accuracy Overflow and increased Critical Hit Chance and Critical Hit Severity. A parked player is going to take more damage.
Outside of other bonuses/boosts, once a ship reaches 24 Impulse Speed it's capped the Bonus Defense it's going to get from a standard speed boost. Whether somebody's at 24 or 48, they're both getting the +45% Bonus Defense.
Course, that gets into the calculations of Bonus Accuracy vs. Bonus Defense and calculating both the To Hit number as well as looking at Accuracy Overflow.
It's not a simple Accuracy - Defense thing or anything like that. Sure, that's how the party gets started...but that's just getting in the door. Going off of Geko's spreadsheet...
Bonus Accuracy and Bonus Defense are represented by their decimal values: 25% would be 0.25 for example.
So with a 0% vs. 0% giving a 100% %ToHit, we can see that -15% Bonus Defense would take us to 1.130435 or 113.0435% To Hit.
Then we could calculate the Accuracy Overflow, which would be %ToHit - 1; which in this case would give us 0.130435 Accuracy Overflow. Which we would plug in to a simple Accuracy Overflow * BCC/BCS * 100 formula.
Now if we were looking at the same boat moving at 24+ Impulse though, we'll get a 0 - 0.45 giving us a negative number which we run through the If Diff (Negative) formula to get 0.689655 for our %ToHit...or 68.9655% To Hit. There is an artificial limit in place in the system, mind you, you cannot go below a 24% Minimum To Hit.
Course, there are all sorts of things that affect both Accuracy and Defense. The odd thing is there is no negative impact on one's Accuracy from their speed, but they can get other boosts to their Bonus Defense from other sources based on their speed. Evasive Maneuvers provides a buff to Bonus Defense that scales off of speed. The tooltip for APO shows the wrong boost...frtoaster actually has a formula out there to calculate the true bonus one receives from the ability, which if I remember correctly is based not only on speed but is also affected by the type of ship. An Escort using APO at the same speed as another ship actually gets a better boost from it sort of thing.
Man, he always explained things so much better than I ever could...but oh well.
Meh, I can't find the formula from frtoaster. I think bareel was in on that thread as well. One of those "hey guys, here's a bunch of data that doesn't make sense to me...help???" posts that I do from time to time, heh.
Hrmm, guess I skipped the Subsystem Power stuff there...lol.
Yeah, Engine Power...woot, woot, right? How many times has somebody grabbed one of those 9001 new Engines and had their performance all go to TRIBBLE? It's been forever since I remember seeing a good discussion about Hyper, Standard, and Combat Impulse Engines. Gets into that whole discussion of how different speed boosts and turn boosts are calculated. Fun stuff...er...that I can't recall of the top of my head, so I'm not going to get into it.
Shield Power and that boost to Shield Damage Reduction as well as Shield Regeneration. That basic formula for calculating Shield Power's contribution with the (Shield Power * 0.28 = Shield Damage Reduction), so at 125 Shield Power one has 35% Shield Damage Reduction while at 50 they have 14%. Course, that gets into calculating how those are added up - but I'll just link one of hilbert's posts on it: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=7213421&postcount=32
Aux Power is just way too complicated a topic for this post. What it affects, what it doesn't affect that one might think it would, and the various ways that it affects it.
Random tidbit...
Aux Power boosts Transfer Shield Strength.
Shield Power boosts Extend Shields.
Neither boosts Science Team.
The range penalty stuff for energy weapons got mentioned earlier with those links to the bareel stuff, but speaking of weapon ranges in general - there's often confusion about ranges when it comes to torpedoes. The actual hit from them often doesn't not sync with the visual impact. This can lead to the impression that one can outrun a torpedo that has hit...but you can't, even if it never displays the impact at some point that torpedo has actually registered the impact in the combat log. Course, that also gets into that mix of torp effects that are applied even before the torp is launched vs. those that are applied when the log registers the hit. All sorts of fun stuff there, yeah?
Weapon Arcs tend to TRIBBLE me off because of the inconsistency. Sometimes you can cut an arc and continue firing and sometimes you can't...meh. There are obvious things like how a Romulan Hyperplasma Torp will keep firing regardless of the arc but you can also run the risk of cutting the arc and not having a weapon fire at all, often eating the associated buff with it as well. Sometimes when you're broadsiding it's the actual 70 degree arc and sometimes with a little wobbling there's no issue with the 70. Course, that also can get into the quirky issue of extra drain from weapons where the cycle is cut short, starts again, and so you're eating more drain than you should have have for the weapons firing - you've potentially fired fewer shots but started more cycles.
Meh, I have to admit that I'm getting bored here..lol. Buff stacking, yep - order of precedence for applying buffs can be an important factor that's oft overlooked. Debuff stacking can help, definitely, though it is subject to a form of diminishing returns. Hull Damage Resistance and Effective Health can be an interesting discussion. Whether, taking into account the diminishing returns of Hull Damage Resistance and taking into account most +Hull HP buffs are calculated off of the base Hull Health of the ship, which might be better to add in given scenarios, eh?
Hell, this is depressing thinking about just how much of my brain must be cluttered up with various things from this game...lol. Yeah, next time the girlfriend complains about me forgetting to take the garbage out, I'm going to say I learned something new about STO and there just wasn't room...so I forgot about the garbage.
But the overall discussion about Cryptic providing information reminds me of something somebody from Cryptic said (I can't remember who, the brain's too cluttered - argggh) about if they were to hire somebody to do that kind of documentation, that would mean they didn't hire somebody to work on the game - somebody that might be fixing bugs, designing new items, mechanics, systems - somebody doing art or content - etc, etc, etc. Meanwhile, we've got how many players posting all sorts of information here on these forums, over on reddit, in various fleet forums, personal blogs, and all the rest, eh? Yet so little of it gets to STOwiki, heh.
STOwiki could be the best wiki ever and the players would love it!
Yeah...anyway, that's enough babbling for me in this thread.
4,465 Posts... let me tell you the Cryptic hate posts only happened around 4,200. lol
I am done trying to educate people how to play the easiest of all the MMOS I play. Its not up to me to inform people what the game design is.
The fact that I can come in here and state the obvious... "STFS are about DPS / Control" and have people argue wtih me... asking me to "Prove it". Says it all.
Cryptic needs to do a better job teaching there players how to play there game.
Honestly thinking more... no Pre built ships won't really work... however Some low level missions that are REQUIRED to play that teach people the games basic mechanics couldn't possibly be a bad thing.
I control. I debuff. I make thing happen that make things happen for others to get big numbers. But in the end, day in and day out, it's about my own personal DPS. What debuff I give the enemy that lets Tom hit harder or focus fire doesn't matter to most people in elites. Some will toss a thank you. Most will ignore you. And some will fill your ears with curses.
I rolled a Science officer some years ago. Had I known about APA and GDF before I put years of work and life, if I may say so, into my captain, I might consider playing Star Tac Online, but that is the crux of the issue here. It's about the only viable class in the game. If you are not that class, you are already at a disadvantage. I think my version of APA does what? Gives a boost to shield healing? Engies? Gives a boost to hull healing. My other powers call a photonic fleet that can be more trouble than help since there is no control over them at all and a subnuc beam. Nothing in that package helps my DPS. The engi can heal himself and reverse his shield polarity. The third tac speeds up the cooldown on their team abilities.
It's more than players playing badly. It's players playing badly gimped classes and being expected to APA GDF damage their way through content. A high powered player recently put their tac into a science ship for a video. They got numbers no science captain could ever hope to get from the skills a science officer should excel at. That, to me, is just proof that this entire argument is because of a fundamental imbalance in this game at its core.
Rather than berating such players, as someone with a bit of experience, perhaps you should have actually tried to assist these people that you speak of
Then they just whine, and tell you how they know better, and how you're not entitled to tell them how to play.
"Tolerance and apathy are the last virtues of a dying society." - Aristotle
Oh, don't get me wrong...I've done my rage posts about folks showing up doing less than 2k or those folks that are off chasing butterflies like they've got no clue what to do...and the obvious trolls that sabotage things (maybe that's one of the reasons this one was so cool to me, lol, the last one I ran had somebody R-TBR the Nanites into the Trans...sigh)...
I just don't see tossing boats at folks with builds fixing anything. I guess I started up recently harping on four things, so I'm kind of stuck on them...they're all educational and things that came to mind after a few folks said that I may be taking things for granted. So I tried to think of some basic things that I perhaps took for granted that could adversely affect the outcome of an ISA run...and other runs.
1) Subsystem Power, mainly Weapon Power. Not everybody's sporting an AMP core nor running Nukara Offensive/Defensive, but the vast majority of folks out there are running Energy Weapons. Each point of Weapon Power is a 2% damage modifier. 50 Weapon Power means Energy Weapons are doing 100% of their damage. 100 Weapon Power is 200% and 125 is 250%.
...with it being 1 + (Weapon Power Boost) to determine the modifier to damage...so 1.5 + 1...2.5 times the damage. With weapons draining that Weapon Power, that number goes down...and...damage can take a major hit from that happening if the Weapon Power level is set low to start with or steps aren't taken to boost it or reduce the drain. Which is where we get into things like Emergency Power to Weapons, that 2pc combo with the Assimilated Module and Cutting Beam, folks running Marion with DEM, running a Core with drain reduction, etc, etc, etc.
The better one is able to maintain a higher Weapon Power level, the more damage they will be able to do...and it can be a pretty significant difference.
2) Range Penalty. Both Beams and Cannons experience a range penalty to their damage. The penalty is more severe for Cannons than Beams.
So just inside 5km, Cannons are doing 72.5% and Beams are doing 84.0%. Get out to just inside 10km, Cannons are down to 40.0% and Beams are down to 64.0%.
There's nothing that really jumps out to tell a player any of that's going on with the range. So unless they spend too much time testing things and buried in spreadsheets or reading posts from folks that spend too much time testing things and buried in spreadsheets...it's just not something that might come to mind to them.
The better one is able to maintain certain ranges with weapons, the more damage they will be able to do...and it can be a pretty significant difference.
3) If you're not attacking, you're not doing damage. This one gets a little more complex, and gets into finding a path through the content and being able to adapt that path to what others are doing around you.
Okay, some time for bad forum doodles...
Pp = Player Parking
Pm = Player Moving
T = Target(s)
Pp <---10km---> T <---15km---> T <---15km---> T, etc, etc, etc.
T <---5km---> Pm <---10km---> T <---15km---> T, etc, etc, etc.
So with Pp there, they're sitting on the far side of the target out at 10km. When that target is gone, their next target is 25km away. They've got to travel at least 15km so they can get to 10km to start shooting again. Then they'll repeat that over and over - that combination of not doing anything while traveling and eating the range penalty.
But with Pm there, they've continued moving - they're flying by that target toward the next target while attacking in motion. As they continue to do this, even though they'll be temporarily eating some range penalty - they're still doing constant damage rather than experience that downtime.
It's just a case of getting down some sort of pathing. I like to double-tap Full Impulse for the burst into the first engagement, veering a little to the right so as I come around to the left I'm ready to pop Evasive after the Ops window is cleared and be on my way to the left Trans. Which I'll tend to fly past further left, so as Cube and Gens are gone I'm heading toward the right and the Nanites. Which I'll try to keep to the right of me, so that as they're gone I'm ready to hit Evasive and Rock 'n Roll to get past the Gateway over on my way to the right Trans. Where again I'll try to go further right, so that as everything goes boom I'm already heading left toward the second batch of Nanites as well as the Tac Cube/Gateway.
Course, depending on what's going on - may have to head over to the Nanites to GW them or grab them in a R-TBR to drag them away. If I don't have that handy but I'm in a really tanky boat, I'll just park in front of the first Nanite and cause a traffic jam as their AI is unable to realize they could just fly around me...lol. Sometimes it might be a case of having to pop an Engine Battery to try to get back to the Trans.
The better one is able to work some kind of path through the run, the more damage they will be able to do...and it can be a pretty significant difference.
4) Basic knowledge of the instance. Sticking with the ISA example, the average run is going to be taking out the Cube/Spheres, heading left, taking out the Cube/Gens and Trans, taking out the Spheres/Nanite Spheres, heading right, taking out the Cube/Gens and Trans, taking out the Spheres/Nanite Spheres, taking out the Tac Cube/Gateway either one at a time or together.
If folks start chasing that original Sphere and the spawned Spheres (not Nanites coming through the Gateway, just the Sphers that spawn by the Trans after a Gen is dropped), then they're not helping to get the other Gens down and then the Trans. That's removing potentially needed DPS...which can result in the Trans not being taken down before the Nanites get there if the group lacks the crowd control. Group might have had more than enough DPS, but it was just a case of it not being applied against the appropriate targets to prevent the failure.
The better one has some basic knowledge of the mission, the smoother the run of that mission will be...and it can be a pretty significant difference.
. . . . .
Obviously as one starts running with different groups, as one starts doing more DPS, gets into various scenarios of this, that, or the other - obviously that sort of stuff is going to change. The fundamentals will remain the same...but the particulars would change; but that would get into #4 some and learning how the folks are running it at that level.
I think in one thread I broke down some examples of what could happen from that combination of Weapon Power, Range Penalty, and downtime...it can be a pretty damn significant difference in the DPS one is doing. But it's not just going to be about DPS either...if somebody's looking to do some tank stuff, they need their Subsystem Power working for that - need to be in position to grab that aggro and take the hits - etc, etc, etc. Debuff? Same. Heal? Same. Sure, they were mainly covered from a DPS angle above - but they're basic fundamentals for almost anything that somebody might be trying to do, yeah?
* * * * *
This is an excellent post. This or something like it should be stickied or put in a place that is easily accessible.
There are MANY players who do not understand that energy weapon damage is affected by target distance. There should be something in the tutorial missions that underscores this, and explains the primary things that affect weapon performance (power level/target distance/target debuffs, etc.).
I'm going to drop this in here at the bottom, since I don't feel like using up my 120s reply thing for it.
If somebody is off playing by themselves, then nope - nobody has the right to tell them how to play. The moment somebody decides to queue for content where they are not playing by themselves, then they should be open to advice on how to best contribute to the successful completion of that content. That doesn't mean changing everything that somebody's doing, but if that player is not working toward the successful completion of the content in some way...then that player needs to GTFO, imho. They're just trolling, leeching, or whatever the case may be. They need to stop being so selfish and put a little effort into a team friendly build/learning how the instance is done.
Sure, if somebody comes along and says everybody needs to do 20-30k DPS for content that only requires 6-8k DPS from folks...I'm right there telling them to go to their favorite park, sit on their thumb, and hum some Miley Cyrus song. But if a player is showing up for content that requires 6-8k and is doing 1-2k or even less...then yeah, they need to open themselves up to some advice.
I agree with this.
It's fine to do whatever you want in solo play, since the only person you are affecting is you. Once you hit the queues, you should be prepared to do the mission(s). That means being able to carry your own weight. You are no longer operating in a vacuum and your performance affects other players. If you don't like having some sort of baseline performance and are unwilling to ramp up your game, then perhaps you should stick to solo play. It's not like there are not any resources both in the game and out to help people. There are many people in the game and even here on the forums who are more than willing to help others out. Refusing these resources and help when it is freely offered is silly.
When someone says, "There is a better way to do x, let me show you.", it doesn't kill you to at least listen or discuss it (provided they are not going off like a lunatic).
I control. I debuff. I make thing happen that make things happen for others to get big numbers. But in the end, day in and day out, it's about my own personal DPS. What debuff I give the enemy that lets Tom hit harder or focus fire doesn't matter to most people in elites. Some will toss a thank you. Most will ignore you. And some will fill your ears with curses.
I rolled a Science officer some years ago. Had I known about APA and GDF before I put years of work and life, if I may say so, into my captain, I might consider playing Star Tac Online, but that is the crux of the issue here. It's about the only viable class in the game. If you are not that class, you are already at a disadvantage. I think my version of APA does what? Gives a boost to shield healing? Engies? Gives a boost to hull healing. My other powers call a photonic fleet that can be more trouble than help since there is no control over them at all and a subnuc beam. Nothing in that package helps my DPS. The engi can heal himself and reverse his shield polarity. The third tac speeds up the cooldown on their team abilities.
It's more than players playing badly. It's players playing badly gimped classes and being expected to APA GDF damage their way through content. A high powered player recently put their tac into a science ship for a video. They got numbers no science captain could ever hope to get from the skills a science officer should excel at. That, to me, is just proof that this entire argument is because of a fundamental imbalance in this game at its core.
Science is likely the best class in the game. What you do have is Sensor scan.
Subnuke no doubt... most powerful PvP skill in the game almost useless in PvE.
Photo fleet isn't all that great no but it is at least a small but of DPS... no doubt not that important either.
Where the Sci shines is how it works right now with Exotic Dmg. Cryptic did hear people complain about sci... and they have responded by making Exotic dmg INSANE.
As a Sci in a STF... you should right now be pretty much the highest DPS out side of the bet built Tac Schims ect. You can get there thanks to the Science Captain Traits... and R&D Science School crafting trait. Then you will want to get your hands on Feedback loop (lockbox trait, not expensive) and the newest Lockbox console that boosts exotic dmg in a passive way(again not expensive).
Then you build your sci to control... Gravity Well... and TBR (with reversal Doff). My TBR hits for over 3k base dmg... and it is an AUTO Crit. The Gravity well will also Auto Crit. Combo that with a torpedo weapon that also uses exotic dmg like the Plasma Emission torp... and pressto... instant 30k+ DPS science ship. With that build I can mostly save even the worst STF teams by controling things like probes and spheres... really though I don't always want to fly this ship... and even when I do I don't want to have to evasive back and forth trying to round up probes people are ignoring. (and not killing anything fast enough) nor can I round up all the spheres in an infected and tank them and the gate for 5 min while people fly around doing gosh knows what.
I will say the Engi doesn't really bring much of anything to the game. It doesn't sound like you have played one. Trust me there heals are a joke. (the new Event ship console is 10x better then MW and everyone can use it) There DPS increase (Nadion inversion) has been replaced by a ton of gear that negates the Energy Weapon mechanics. (and Cryptic changes weapon drain themselves 3 years go now and killed the advantage of nadion anyway)
In any even the Captain type doesn't really matter all that much anymore imo. Attack Pattern Alpha (tac) and Sensor Scan (Sci)... are pretty much on Par in terms of DPS potential. Alpha would give you a bit more DMG on your own output... but Sensor Scan will increase your own and the rest of the teams... so best case a well placed Sensor scan will proved much more DPS then APA. The rest all offests as I see it.
PS.. if you are out there controlling NPCS and Debuffing you are 100% doing your job... and anyone saying otherwise are the ones not understanding the mechanics. I am not saying every sci should be doing 30k DPS either. A good control sci makes the difference... for sure when the rest of the team is low on DPS. A low DPS team can complete most STFs and perhaps even get the optional rewards done most of the time if someone like yourself is controlling the fail conditions and debuffing the heck out of the big stuff.
Comments
What is elitist about wanting to play a game with other people who are not setting themselves up to loose.
I have no issues with some RP. I don't seek it out but I play along now and then cause its fun. Now that I think about it... never mind I have RPed evil Klink in Kerrat on more then one occasion.
Heck its the RP people that have complained about the auto fails more then anyone isn't it...
The fact is I can't send nice friendly "could I make a few build suggestions" PMs to every bad player in this game. There are to many of them. I have tried for 5 years... I have helped plenty of people sure... and learned a few things here and there from others no doubt. Lets be honest though the level of SUCK is at an all time high. Its up to Cryptic to help them at this point... I don't care if its pre built ships... Pre set loadout sales... or simple "Advanced Ship Training" missions, that can be as role play friendly as people like. (in fact they would be cooler if they where super RP heavy Training missions). Cryptic has put the training of the games newer players off on us... or forced us to use private channels and leave them to there own suck. Both aren't great options imo, I would like to be able to public que and NOT want to kill anyone.
Every anecdote from people who have mastered or have begun mastering the game is the same; they, the individual, put in the time to research and explore STO outside of the in-game environment.
No one, not even Cryptic, is willing to just hand you knowledge. Yes, Cryptic would be well served to introduce something similar to the keying quests used to further gate content in other MMOs. Such content could serve a dual purpose of keeping out the truly awful while providing a great venue to teach players specific skills they need to advance. SquareEnix already does this with great success in FFXIV:ARR; every group encounter, starting at level 15, begins pushing you to adapt and learn better mechanics.
Granted, Cryptic seems to believe deeply that the more opaque their mechanics are, the better it is for them. But Cryptic is extremely short sighted and a terrible example of the right way of doing things.
You're completely ignoring a huge part of why many players cannot improve; they refuse to believe that they themselves could at all be a part, even just a tiny part, of the problem. No surprise that they're incapable of taking criticism, constructive criticism, or, too often, even friendly advice.
You seem to be content with your 7k DPS Guardian, but if I told you that with a few small changes you could make it an even better heal/support ship, would you react negatively to that as well?
Would it come across any better if it was an NPC saying the same thing to you during a solo mission (ie if the developer was telling you, nicely, that you suck)?
As I see it, many players don't get advice on what works well together and what doesn't. Trial and error, in this game, can be quite frustrating.
Giving people a pre-built Lego set they can take apart, change, and modify gives them an option, and example of some things that are effective. Could easily build variants from canon style to high damage to to control to support. Not locking anyone into a playstyle, not forcing anything on anyone, not removing any options. But saying, "if this is your goal here's one way to get there".
Its much easier to modify than build from scratch. Its much easier to figure out "your way" when you can look at "his way," and "her way". That's why classic training for artists and writers started with copying existing works, then moved to original creations. Same concept. A tool for creativity, not chains or limits.
I am running for chancellor and I approve this message.
I was Klingon before Klingon was cool.
Frankly, I don't want to fly with people like you because of your super-elite attitude of 'Fly a super-DPS ship or GTFO STO!'
Right back at you. If you're not willing to put in even the slightest effort to perfect your craft, even if it's something as non-DPSy as always rocking the best put together costumes/outfits, then you're not worth playing with.
If you approach MMOs with the same attitude that DMV employees show towards the poor saps forced to deal with them, you're not worth playing with.
On a slightly related note, I'm hardly a hardcore player, though I do often engage MMOs with something approaching a hardcore mentality, I would literally need to train myself to be able to RP reasonably (though there it is again, me doing something to improve myself...).
But, I find it very interesting that the genre took a tremendous nose dive since it bought into the idea of coddling casuals. Even the almighty WoW stumbled on this same idiotic idea.
Meanwhile, every game I've come across which casuals seem to support, is a ghost town for the bulk of the day. The game may be MM for the few hours a week you may play (unless you're one of those total hypocrite casuals who puts in more time than I ever would), but the rest of the time it's more like SAO - So Alone Online.
I don't know what to call such a game, but MMO doesn't really seem apt. Seeing as casuals are adverse to anything competitive, and at its essence an MMO is one big e-peen stroke fest, why do casuals continue to insist they actually like MMOs?
Wouldn't you be happier with a nice single player RPG?
Its true I have no editor when I post here. I can also not be bothered to re read my posts all that often.
Cryptics rules aren't written... and that IS THE PROBLEM.
There rules are clear to anyone that understands video games. The missions can not be beaten without a mix of DPS and Control. You can pass them with to much of either, but if you have neither you fail.
As far as Cryptic not being clear that DPS is the way to go... best reread this.
I will admit they are not clearly saying... bring DPS or don't bother... really though that is exactly how they have setup the missions.
Some highlights;
"We expect you to not just be outfitted in great gear, but have become proficient in the Normal and Advanced versions of the events as well."
"These queues are designed to test our best and most powerful Captains in the game."
"Enemies on Elite will hit significantly harder and be harder to kill, and at the same time, the missions themselves will take clockwork precision to complete." (read this as saying LESS TIME, MORE DPS needed)
"You will also want some top-end gear, and for space, the best possible ship."
Eve does a good job of the teaching missions / Gear.
They have missions setup for as many of the basic game play styles as possible... the mission agents give you gear to use in those missions "civilian" class gear... that only works in those training missions. You take your little ship, you slot the civilian stuff they gave you and they walk you through how it works. In this way you learn combat / hauling / Electronic combat ... ect ect. You also get an idea of what each type of gear is used for in a real game situation. Its not perfect but at least in that game if you are talking to someone completely new... you can suggest they go take a few hours and run those missions and then ask any questions they have. I would say something like that in STO wouldn't be a bad idea. "Have you run, the academies Advanced Combat Training?"... go run that and then I can help you with your build if you like. Would be a lot less frustrating for everyone.
I certainly don't waste my time trying to ruin RPers time if I come across some in-game.
I'd ask the same of you.
Otherwise, I hope that ******e anti-RP fleet has you on lockdown.
You have no right how to tell others how to play, and I'm terribly sorry if that bursts your bubble. I've been here since pre-beta; there have never been any "rules" for how to play the game. You're just pissed that not everyone plays the way you think they should.
If you want an MMO that only allows hardcore players, create your own. Once created, have a very thorough application process, so you only get the best, most hardcore and dedicated players the gaming world has to offer. Otherwise...? Tough TRIBBLE, honey; you either learn to play with casuals, or check out of the gaming world for good. You can't tell people how to play. Period. It does not work that way now, and it never will.
A couple of you are very conceited and condescending. Mind if I have your global handles? You know, so I can ignore you in-game and never run the risk of teaming with you? Thanks much! =D
Oh, don't get me wrong...I've done my rage posts about folks showing up doing less than 2k or those folks that are off chasing butterflies like they've got no clue what to do...and the obvious trolls that sabotage things (maybe that's one of the reasons this one was so cool to me, lol, the last one I ran had somebody R-TBR the Nanites into the Trans...sigh)...
I just don't see tossing boats at folks with builds fixing anything. I guess I started up recently harping on four things, so I'm kind of stuck on them...they're all educational and things that came to mind after a few folks said that I may be taking things for granted. So I tried to think of some basic things that I perhaps took for granted that could adversely affect the outcome of an ISA run...and other runs.
1) Subsystem Power, mainly Weapon Power. Not everybody's sporting an AMP core nor running Nukara Offensive/Defensive, but the vast majority of folks out there are running Energy Weapons. Each point of Weapon Power is a 2% damage modifier. 50 Weapon Power means Energy Weapons are doing 100% of their damage. 100 Weapon Power is 200% and 125 is 250%.
(Weapon Power - 50) * 0.02 = Weapon Power Boost
(125 - 50) * 0.02 = 75 * 0.02 = 1.5
...with it being 1 + (Weapon Power Boost) to determine the modifier to damage...so 1.5 + 1...2.5 times the damage. With weapons draining that Weapon Power, that number goes down...and...damage can take a major hit from that happening if the Weapon Power level is set low to start with or steps aren't taken to boost it or reduce the drain. Which is where we get into things like Emergency Power to Weapons, that 2pc combo with the Assimilated Module and Cutting Beam, folks running Marion with DEM, running a Core with drain reduction, etc, etc, etc.
The better one is able to maintain a higher Weapon Power level, the more damage they will be able to do...and it can be a pretty significant difference.
2) Range Penalty. Both Beams and Cannons experience a range penalty to their damage. The penalty is more severe for Cannons than Beams.
So just inside 5km, Cannons are doing 72.5% and Beams are doing 84.0%. Get out to just inside 10km, Cannons are down to 40.0% and Beams are down to 64.0%.
There's nothing that really jumps out to tell a player any of that's going on with the range. So unless they spend too much time testing things and buried in spreadsheets or reading posts from folks that spend too much time testing things and buried in spreadsheets...it's just not something that might come to mind to them.
The better one is able to maintain certain ranges with weapons, the more damage they will be able to do...and it can be a pretty significant difference.
3) If you're not attacking, you're not doing damage. This one gets a little more complex, and gets into finding a path through the content and being able to adapt that path to what others are doing around you.
Okay, some time for bad forum doodles...
Pp = Player Parking
Pm = Player Moving
T = Target(s)
Pp <---10km---> T <---15km---> T <---15km---> T, etc, etc, etc.
T <---5km---> Pm <---10km---> T <---15km---> T, etc, etc, etc.
So with Pp there, they're sitting on the far side of the target out at 10km. When that target is gone, their next target is 25km away. They've got to travel at least 15km so they can get to 10km to start shooting again. Then they'll repeat that over and over - that combination of not doing anything while traveling and eating the range penalty.
But with Pm there, they've continued moving - they're flying by that target toward the next target while attacking in motion. As they continue to do this, even though they'll be temporarily eating some range penalty - they're still doing constant damage rather than experience that downtime.
It's just a case of getting down some sort of pathing. I like to double-tap Full Impulse for the burst into the first engagement, veering a little to the right so as I come around to the left I'm ready to pop Evasive after the Ops window is cleared and be on my way to the left Trans. Which I'll tend to fly past further left, so as Cube and Gens are gone I'm heading toward the right and the Nanites. Which I'll try to keep to the right of me, so that as they're gone I'm ready to hit Evasive and Rock 'n Roll to get past the Gateway over on my way to the right Trans. Where again I'll try to go further right, so that as everything goes boom I'm already heading left toward the second batch of Nanites as well as the Tac Cube/Gateway.
Course, depending on what's going on - may have to head over to the Nanites to GW them or grab them in a R-TBR to drag them away. If I don't have that handy but I'm in a really tanky boat, I'll just park in front of the first Nanite and cause a traffic jam as their AI is unable to realize they could just fly around me...lol. Sometimes it might be a case of having to pop an Engine Battery to try to get back to the Trans.
The better one is able to work some kind of path through the run, the more damage they will be able to do...and it can be a pretty significant difference.
4) Basic knowledge of the instance. Sticking with the ISA example, the average run is going to be taking out the Cube/Spheres, heading left, taking out the Cube/Gens and Trans, taking out the Spheres/Nanite Spheres, heading right, taking out the Cube/Gens and Trans, taking out the Spheres/Nanite Spheres, taking out the Tac Cube/Gateway either one at a time or together.
If folks start chasing that original Sphere and the spawned Spheres (not Nanites coming through the Gateway, just the Sphers that spawn by the Trans after a Gen is dropped), then they're not helping to get the other Gens down and then the Trans. That's removing potentially needed DPS...which can result in the Trans not being taken down before the Nanites get there if the group lacks the crowd control. Group might have had more than enough DPS, but it was just a case of it not being applied against the appropriate targets to prevent the failure.
The better one has some basic knowledge of the mission, the smoother the run of that mission will be...and it can be a pretty significant difference.
. . . . .
Obviously as one starts running with different groups, as one starts doing more DPS, gets into various scenarios of this, that, or the other - obviously that sort of stuff is going to change. The fundamentals will remain the same...but the particulars would change; but that would get into #4 some and learning how the folks are running it at that level.
I think in one thread I broke down some examples of what could happen from that combination of Weapon Power, Range Penalty, and downtime...it can be a pretty damn significant difference in the DPS one is doing. But it's not just going to be about DPS either...if somebody's looking to do some tank stuff, they need their Subsystem Power working for that - need to be in position to grab that aggro and take the hits - etc, etc, etc. Debuff? Same. Heal? Same. Sure, they were mainly covered from a DPS angle above - but they're basic fundamentals for almost anything that somebody might be trying to do, yeah?
* * * * *
I'm going to drop this in here at the bottom, since I don't feel like using up my 120s reply thing for it.
If somebody is off playing by themselves, then nope - nobody has the right to tell them how to play. The moment somebody decides to queue for content where they are not playing by themselves, then they should be open to advice on how to best contribute to the successful completion of that content. That doesn't mean changing everything that somebody's doing, but if that player is not working toward the successful completion of the content in some way...then that player needs to GTFO, imho. They're just trolling, leeching, or whatever the case may be. They need to stop being so selfish and put a little effort into a team friendly build/learning how the instance is done.
Sure, if somebody comes along and says everybody needs to do 20-30k DPS for content that only requires 6-8k DPS from folks...I'm right there telling them to go to their favorite park, sit on their thumb, and hum some Miley Cyrus song. But if a player is showing up for content that requires 6-8k and is doing 1-2k or even less...then yeah, they need to open themselves up to some advice.
Why so angry ?
Seriously... did I hurt your feeling because I said if you are constantly failing Elite Mode PvE, your annoying other players. Well you are. If your ship isn't capable of completing that content I could care less. If all you do is que up for normal why would I care.
However if you know your ship can't hack it, and you obviously haven't asked for help, or gotten the proper advice. (I can only assume when I see a constant stream of people unable to complete the content in the ques) Then yes I have to ask what is it CRYPTIC should be doing to help you. I am just another player... Its not my job to stop every rainbow boat... or suboptimal ship and ask nicely if they would like some advice. I do help people when they ask sure... over the last few years I have lost count. This game has mostly been populated by pretty cool people that have no issues asking for advice. (I am no different, plenty of times I have asked people "what was that you used... or how did you manage X so fast" there answers have helped me as well).
I'm not talking about the fine tuning style tweaks though. I am seeing people with clearly POOR ship designs in Elite Ques. Stuff that by the time they get to level 60+ some Cryptic mission they ran... or some bit of common sense should have corrected.
I understand people running RP style ships... and honestly MANY of them are perfectly fine for Elite content and I would never complain about them. I don't care if you want to bring your Star Fleet issue ship... loaded with Phasers and Photons. Setup right that type of ship will do more then fine. I'm sorry there is no RP excuse for ONE Tet / ONE disruptor / ONE AP / ONE Transphasic torp / and 4 mines in the back.... cause I have HONESTLY seen that exact setup in the Elite Ques. lmao
Is the exact type of stuff Cryptic needs to roll into an "Academy Training" series.
They should do a better job of explaining Power levels and what they mean to you...
Speeds and what they do for Defense...
Weapon ranges... even explaining arcs ect.
Buff stacking... and how to rack up dmg and healing...
They could explain properly... Defense / Resistance... and active heals.
This is basic info that players should not have to be the ones teaching.
In fact they should have a set of 2-3 Academy missions for EVERY STF that are required before the Elite version of the que is unlocked. Would it be annoying for those of us with lots of alts... yes... but would it be more annoying then constantly running into ques with people that simply don't know ?
I'm not saying there bad people or even bad players... they just obviously don't understand the game as well as they could. Cryptic COULD fix that.
Apparently the only thing concrete said about how to play the game is that 480 dil should require fifteen minutes of play time to earn.
Same. 9k. That's up from my 6k at LoR. So I am an improved noob.
Been doing this for a good while.
...and you just proved the point.
NOT EVERYONE PLAYS STFs!
...and...
STOP PUGGING!
You're arrogantly and selfishly standing on your soapbox screaming at Cryptic, the other players, and the world that they should pigeonhole everyone because they don't suit your "needs" when it's you that chooses to PUG an isolated portion of the game and subject yourself to teaming with players you despise.
You're doing this to yourself. The game mechanics and features allow you to avoid this frustration. Once again, make contact with others like yourself, get into closed teams, queue up in private, then you won't have this problem.
Here's your sign.
The point is the person most able to help a terrible player is himself.
I tried this approach in these forums the last time this came up. The result was that you (as a NOOB) have no right playing anything at all that might affect other people who are non-noobs. If you are LTS or Gold, your money spent for the content does not equal theirs because you suck and they don't. Normal difficulty is for you. It's where you belong. However, please note that these folks can and will come into your normal queues and kill things so fast that people get AFK penalties because they can't shoot anything fast enough to do enough damage before it is dead. Then some of them still feel the need to tell the other 4 how much they suck as they leave for their AFK timeout. But that is perfectly fine. They can come trash the normals for the little DPS people but the little DPS people are not allowed to even think of going into advanced.
And by all the upbeefing that keeps going on, Cryptic agrees.
I have seen players do 50k DPs with mix torp, beam builds or 80k dps with rainbow builds.
I can also use mk 12 stuff and still deal 30k dps. Some can even do commons and still deal 50k dps.
DPS is more of piloting than gears. Gear helps. But if your piloting skill is very sub par, any ship will be subpar.
And the stagnation of piloting skill is more of thinking that your build and piloting is sufficient without any room for improvement.
The entire basis of the rant can be summarised as :
Self-righteous elitism is a toxic fact of life when it comes to MMO's...
People like the OP seem to think they are some special little snowflake and that everyone should bend to their whims, and look out anyone who might actually disrupt their perfect game play experience...
Rather than berating such players, as someone with a bit of experience, perhaps you should have actually tried to assist these people that you speak of, rather than come here barking bull**** about changing fundamental principles of STO because they no longer suit you...
Either of those scenarios is not a lot of fun for people. If you have had people do that to you in normal then you should understand the frustration of having under geared/experienced players hitting up the Elite Ques.
The best solution would be for Cryptic to take it out of peoples hands. Keep a record of everyones Average DPS/HPS/Compete times... ect and auto team people in the ques based on this data. Remove the idea of Elite / Adv / Normal... and just adjust the que based on the people playing. If 3 people on the team can handle advanced... and one Elite and one Normal.. then start an Advanced mode... ect.
For the record I don't hate people that I don't think can handle Elites... they have every right to be there. I simply wish Cryptic would make it easier for them to do better... train them if need be or simply sell them equipped ships. I don't really care.
I could go hide in Private DPS channels like everyone else... or I can tell it like it is. The average player in this game is BAD. Cryptic could do more to make the majority of them OK.
4,465 Posts... let me tell you the Cryptic hate posts only happened around 4,200. lol
I am done trying to educate people how to play the easiest of all the MMOS I play. Its not up to me to inform people what the game design is.
The fact that I can come in here and state the obvious... "STFS are about DPS / Control" and have people argue wtih me... asking me to "Prove it". Says it all.
Cryptic needs to do a better job teaching there players how to play there game.
Honestly thinking more... no Pre built ships won't really work... however Some low level missions that are REQUIRED to play that teach people the games basic mechanics couldn't possibly be a bad thing.
For every 1 PuG, there is around 20-40 in private queues.
Disadvantage of the PuG are:
1) Cannot leave the mission without leaver penalty and reform group
2) If you have subpar build
3) if you have decent build but cannot carry the group which assume cannot carry their own load
4) populated by leechers and griefers
#1,#4 should be sufficient reason not to PuG. #3 or #2 can easily solve by you.
New players dont do PuGs unless someone who lacks the knowledge or just trolling ingame or in the forums tells them that they should.
You cannot really pump up the PuG population since it is the STO community that went to the private queues.
New players have equal access to PuGs and private queues. You can click PuGs the same way you can create a private room.
Lol, starts to make me feel bad...guess there are all sorts of things I kind of take for granted having learned them or having been taught them by folks over the years.
Outside of other bonuses/boosts, a parked ship has -15% Bonus Defense. Depending on if one goes with the 0% vs. 0% results in a 100% to-hit or they scratch their head at the Bonus Accuracy tooltip stating that it is 95%. Everything I've seen, including the old spreadsheet Geko did points to it being 100%...but that tooltip is there all the same...hrmm. Tooltips...are fun.
Outside of other bonuses/boosts, once a ship reaches 24 Impulse Speed it's capped the Bonus Defense it's going to get from a standard speed boost. Whether somebody's at 24 or 48, they're both getting the +45% Bonus Defense.
Course, that gets into the calculations of Bonus Accuracy vs. Bonus Defense and calculating both the To Hit number as well as looking at Accuracy Overflow.
It's not a simple Accuracy - Defense thing or anything like that. Sure, that's how the party gets started...but that's just getting in the door. Going off of Geko's spreadsheet...
Diff = Bonus Accuracy - Bonus Defense
If Diff (Negative); %ToHit = 1 / (1 - Diff)
If Diff (Positive); %ToHit = 2 - (1 / (1 - Diff))
Bonus Accuracy and Bonus Defense are represented by their decimal values: 25% would be 0.25 for example.
So with a 0% vs. 0% giving a 100% %ToHit, we can see that -15% Bonus Defense would take us to 1.130435 or 113.0435% To Hit.
Then we could calculate the Accuracy Overflow, which would be %ToHit - 1; which in this case would give us 0.130435 Accuracy Overflow. Which we would plug in to a simple Accuracy Overflow * BCC/BCS * 100 formula.
Our constants being...
Bonus Crit Chance: 0.125
Bonus Crit Severity: 0.5
0.130435 * 0.125 * 100 = 1.6304375; +1.6% CrtH
0.130435 * 0.5 * 100 = 6.52175; +6.5% CrtD
Now if we were looking at the same boat moving at 24+ Impulse though, we'll get a 0 - 0.45 giving us a negative number which we run through the If Diff (Negative) formula to get 0.689655 for our %ToHit...or 68.9655% To Hit. There is an artificial limit in place in the system, mind you, you cannot go below a 24% Minimum To Hit.
Course, there are all sorts of things that affect both Accuracy and Defense. The odd thing is there is no negative impact on one's Accuracy from their speed, but they can get other boosts to their Bonus Defense from other sources based on their speed. Evasive Maneuvers provides a buff to Bonus Defense that scales off of speed. The tooltip for APO shows the wrong boost...frtoaster actually has a formula out there to calculate the true bonus one receives from the ability, which if I remember correctly is based not only on speed but is also affected by the type of ship. An Escort using APO at the same speed as another ship actually gets a better boost from it sort of thing.
Before I continue on, here's the link to Big Red's post on the Accuracy vs. Defense spreadsheet: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=218273
Man, he always explained things so much better than I ever could...but oh well.
Meh, I can't find the formula from frtoaster. I think bareel was in on that thread as well. One of those "hey guys, here's a bunch of data that doesn't make sense to me...help???" posts that I do from time to time, heh.
Hrmm, guess I skipped the Subsystem Power stuff there...lol.
Yeah, Engine Power...woot, woot, right? How many times has somebody grabbed one of those 9001 new Engines and had their performance all go to TRIBBLE? It's been forever since I remember seeing a good discussion about Hyper, Standard, and Combat Impulse Engines. Gets into that whole discussion of how different speed boosts and turn boosts are calculated. Fun stuff...er...that I can't recall of the top of my head, so I'm not going to get into it.
Shield Power and that boost to Shield Damage Reduction as well as Shield Regeneration. That basic formula for calculating Shield Power's contribution with the (Shield Power * 0.28 = Shield Damage Reduction), so at 125 Shield Power one has 35% Shield Damage Reduction while at 50 they have 14%. Course, that gets into calculating how those are added up - but I'll just link one of hilbert's posts on it: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=7213421&postcount=32
Hrmm, as far as Shield Regeneration - the following post has the basic formula but it also raises a question that I can't remember if it ever got answered: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=20645961&postcount=3
Aux Power is just way too complicated a topic for this post. What it affects, what it doesn't affect that one might think it would, and the various ways that it affects it.
Random tidbit...
Aux Power boosts Transfer Shield Strength.
Shield Power boosts Extend Shields.
Neither boosts Science Team.
But yeah, getting into all the stuff behind the various Subsystem Powers - not even getting into stuff like how AMP works (courtesty of addictart, second post has a correction to the formula in the first: http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=21436431#post21436431 http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=21445601#post21445601 ) gets pretty intense pretty fast.
The range penalty stuff for energy weapons got mentioned earlier with those links to the bareel stuff, but speaking of weapon ranges in general - there's often confusion about ranges when it comes to torpedoes. The actual hit from them often doesn't not sync with the visual impact. This can lead to the impression that one can outrun a torpedo that has hit...but you can't, even if it never displays the impact at some point that torpedo has actually registered the impact in the combat log. Course, that also gets into that mix of torp effects that are applied even before the torp is launched vs. those that are applied when the log registers the hit. All sorts of fun stuff there, yeah?
Weapon Arcs tend to TRIBBLE me off because of the inconsistency. Sometimes you can cut an arc and continue firing and sometimes you can't...meh. There are obvious things like how a Romulan Hyperplasma Torp will keep firing regardless of the arc but you can also run the risk of cutting the arc and not having a weapon fire at all, often eating the associated buff with it as well. Sometimes when you're broadsiding it's the actual 70 degree arc and sometimes with a little wobbling there's no issue with the 70. Course, that also can get into the quirky issue of extra drain from weapons where the cycle is cut short, starts again, and so you're eating more drain than you should have have for the weapons firing - you've potentially fired fewer shots but started more cycles.
Meh, I have to admit that I'm getting bored here..lol. Buff stacking, yep - order of precedence for applying buffs can be an important factor that's oft overlooked. Debuff stacking can help, definitely, though it is subject to a form of diminishing returns. Hull Damage Resistance and Effective Health can be an interesting discussion. Whether, taking into account the diminishing returns of Hull Damage Resistance and taking into account most +Hull HP buffs are calculated off of the base Hull Health of the ship, which might be better to add in given scenarios, eh?
Hell, this is depressing thinking about just how much of my brain must be cluttered up with various things from this game...lol. Yeah, next time the girlfriend complains about me forgetting to take the garbage out, I'm going to say I learned something new about STO and there just wasn't room...so I forgot about the garbage.
But the overall discussion about Cryptic providing information reminds me of something somebody from Cryptic said (I can't remember who, the brain's too cluttered - argggh) about if they were to hire somebody to do that kind of documentation, that would mean they didn't hire somebody to work on the game - somebody that might be fixing bugs, designing new items, mechanics, systems - somebody doing art or content - etc, etc, etc. Meanwhile, we've got how many players posting all sorts of information here on these forums, over on reddit, in various fleet forums, personal blogs, and all the rest, eh? Yet so little of it gets to STOwiki, heh.
STOwiki could be the best wiki ever and the players would love it!
Yeah...anyway, that's enough babbling for me in this thread.
I control. I debuff. I make thing happen that make things happen for others to get big numbers. But in the end, day in and day out, it's about my own personal DPS. What debuff I give the enemy that lets Tom hit harder or focus fire doesn't matter to most people in elites. Some will toss a thank you. Most will ignore you. And some will fill your ears with curses.
I rolled a Science officer some years ago. Had I known about APA and GDF before I put years of work and life, if I may say so, into my captain, I might consider playing Star Tac Online, but that is the crux of the issue here. It's about the only viable class in the game. If you are not that class, you are already at a disadvantage. I think my version of APA does what? Gives a boost to shield healing? Engies? Gives a boost to hull healing. My other powers call a photonic fleet that can be more trouble than help since there is no control over them at all and a subnuc beam. Nothing in that package helps my DPS. The engi can heal himself and reverse his shield polarity. The third tac speeds up the cooldown on their team abilities.
It's more than players playing badly. It's players playing badly gimped classes and being expected to APA GDF damage their way through content. A high powered player recently put their tac into a science ship for a video. They got numbers no science captain could ever hope to get from the skills a science officer should excel at. That, to me, is just proof that this entire argument is because of a fundamental imbalance in this game at its core.
This is an excellent post. This or something like it should be stickied or put in a place that is easily accessible.
There are MANY players who do not understand that energy weapon damage is affected by target distance. There should be something in the tutorial missions that underscores this, and explains the primary things that affect weapon performance (power level/target distance/target debuffs, etc.).
I agree with this.
It's fine to do whatever you want in solo play, since the only person you are affecting is you. Once you hit the queues, you should be prepared to do the mission(s). That means being able to carry your own weight. You are no longer operating in a vacuum and your performance affects other players. If you don't like having some sort of baseline performance and are unwilling to ramp up your game, then perhaps you should stick to solo play. It's not like there are not any resources both in the game and out to help people. There are many people in the game and even here on the forums who are more than willing to help others out. Refusing these resources and help when it is freely offered is silly.
When someone says, "There is a better way to do x, let me show you.", it doesn't kill you to at least listen or discuss it (provided they are not going off like a lunatic).
Science is likely the best class in the game. What you do have is Sensor scan.
Subnuke no doubt... most powerful PvP skill in the game almost useless in PvE.
Photo fleet isn't all that great no but it is at least a small but of DPS... no doubt not that important either.
Where the Sci shines is how it works right now with Exotic Dmg. Cryptic did hear people complain about sci... and they have responded by making Exotic dmg INSANE.
As a Sci in a STF... you should right now be pretty much the highest DPS out side of the bet built Tac Schims ect. You can get there thanks to the Science Captain Traits... and R&D Science School crafting trait. Then you will want to get your hands on Feedback loop (lockbox trait, not expensive) and the newest Lockbox console that boosts exotic dmg in a passive way(again not expensive).
Then you build your sci to control... Gravity Well... and TBR (with reversal Doff). My TBR hits for over 3k base dmg... and it is an AUTO Crit. The Gravity well will also Auto Crit. Combo that with a torpedo weapon that also uses exotic dmg like the Plasma Emission torp... and pressto... instant 30k+ DPS science ship. With that build I can mostly save even the worst STF teams by controling things like probes and spheres... really though I don't always want to fly this ship... and even when I do I don't want to have to evasive back and forth trying to round up probes people are ignoring. (and not killing anything fast enough) nor can I round up all the spheres in an infected and tank them and the gate for 5 min while people fly around doing gosh knows what.
I will say the Engi doesn't really bring much of anything to the game. It doesn't sound like you have played one. Trust me there heals are a joke. (the new Event ship console is 10x better then MW and everyone can use it) There DPS increase (Nadion inversion) has been replaced by a ton of gear that negates the Energy Weapon mechanics. (and Cryptic changes weapon drain themselves 3 years go now and killed the advantage of nadion anyway)
In any even the Captain type doesn't really matter all that much anymore imo. Attack Pattern Alpha (tac) and Sensor Scan (Sci)... are pretty much on Par in terms of DPS potential. Alpha would give you a bit more DMG on your own output... but Sensor Scan will increase your own and the rest of the teams... so best case a well placed Sensor scan will proved much more DPS then APA. The rest all offests as I see it.
PS.. if you are out there controlling NPCS and Debuffing you are 100% doing your job... and anyone saying otherwise are the ones not understanding the mechanics. I am not saying every sci should be doing 30k DPS either. A good control sci makes the difference... for sure when the rest of the team is low on DPS. A low DPS team can complete most STFs and perhaps even get the optional rewards done most of the time if someone like yourself is controlling the fail conditions and debuffing the heck out of the big stuff.