No, but brain chemistry certainly has an affect, and lest we forget, lobotomies or other massive alterations to the brain can also have a huge impact.
I would think that total physiological conversion, including a shift from a two-lobed brain to a six-lobed one, would probably lead to a significant, or at least observable, change in personality.
As it turns out, not so much in this case. In "Ashes to Ashes", apart from a tendency to start swearing in Kobali when she got frustrated, Jhet'leya was apparently basically the same person as Ballard. And I paid attention to "Dust to Dust": no real difference between "Keten" and VOY-era Harry.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
i liked it too, but they realy should rework that moving platforms part - remve shting of electicity from them and prolong thier stay by cca 2-3s , this will greatly reduce frustration.
hope they will fix it, since someone get wrong date, eighter game time or voayer time.
At least it's thematically appropriate. Memory Alpha tried to work out the date when Ballard died and then basically said "TRIBBLE it, here's the details we got, which don't add up".
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
At least it's thematically appropriate. Memory Alpha tried to work out the date when Ballard died and then basically said "TRIBBLE it, here's the details we got, which don't add up".
I read that, there was a lot of issues there. Due to the stuff didn't add up. This is one of the times in the series stuff didn't add up. Oh well it happens. Not many shows out there can keep a good constant story.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
There's an implication in the Kobali BZ storyline that the Kobali were dicking around with genetic engineering and accidentally sterilized themselves. Apparently clinical trials are an invention unique to the Alpha Quadrant.
Probably explains where the Borg came from.
And as for the Kobali, meh at least they wait for you to die before converting a person into one of them.
It is the process of becoming a Kobali, the virus, that brings the dead back to life. Once the process is complete, they can't become Kobali again because they already are and therefore can't be brought back again if they die a second time. The only way to come back at all is to become a Kobali, so there is no nefarious choice the Kobali make to turn someone once they're revived, the very act of becoming a Kobali IS the revival.
Many faction is the Star Trek universe can repair damaged and mangled flesh, even when the subject has died, but all that does is make for a pretty corpse. In Star Trek, dead is usually dead. Not even the all-powerful Borg Nano-probes could get around that one; Nelix may have been dead for a while, but he had to be brought back before necrosis set in; the body Voyager brought on board from the long derelict cube may have sat up, but that was just the cybernetics moving the dead flesh; the frozen Borg found on Earth in ST:Enterprise, again it was the cybernetics moving a dead body, and once they infected a new host the cybernetics were salvaged and body fried per Borg MO (If I remember correctly the Enterprise only counted the missing team in their scans, not the team plus three cyberzombiesicles).
So the issue doesn't seem so much about being forced to become Kobali as it is about being forced to be brought back at all in the first place, and the whole Kobali thing is just some unfortunate and unavoidable side effect.
STO Forum member since 2008, player since 2012 - funny story that
I still maintain that the Kobali aren't a humanoid species as such, but are in fact the end result of horrific experiments in biological warfare. I think their "reproductive" method only makes the least bit of sense if they are in fact sapient viral colonies, infecting dead tissue and animating the corpse in a terrible semblance of continuing life.
For some reason, humans seem to be able to retain physical memory imprints in the dead brain tissue for longer than the other species which have been infected with Kobali; this may be unique to humans, or it may spread across Alpha Quadrant sapients (so far as I know, not many Alphans have been subjected to the "rebirth" process yet).
However, I would liken the process more to fictional zombification than to nonconsensual sex. A zombie might or might not retain memories from its days as a living being - but it is now a different creature than it had been, at its most fundamental levels, and the being it was will fade over time to nothing as its new state of existence takes over. And consent doesn't enter the picture, really - a corpse can neither agree nor abstain.
Well, that is hard to say, they never SHOWED anyone who hadn't been human. It's said that most have little, if any, memory of who they were. Thus they normally have no reason to try to keep the new Kobali from running away. Which explains why all the former Vaadwaur turned Kobali haven't tried to rejoin their race...
The Loque'que weren't that bad really. In theory those affected could have gone back to who they were.... if not for the fact that the other race was trying to exterminate them.
We hate violence. That's why we are not actively killing people to use their bodies, oh no, that would be bad.
No, we let them die. Passively. We could help them, and release them, but we let them die. Because you know, we are not violent. We are the poor guys.
In the process, we let another race become extinct, but who cares ? They are the bad guys !
As for Vaadwaur being inherently evil, well, planet of hats and all that. Also, Klingons see nothing wrong in killing and enslaving. So do the Romulan (granted, the Republic have a bit more moral standing, but not that much). As for the Federation, they use holograms for hard labor, even when they know for a fact they can reach sentience. Especially the model used.
And to be honest, having your entire civilization destroyed, your species bring to the verge of extinction, and see what's left of your people slowly die in the hand of another species can bring anyone angry and revengeful.
As for judging the Vaadwaur evil, and let them die for that, our history is full of example of others country/religion/ethnic group being judged as evil. And we all know how it turned.
It's morally wrong. Period.
The Federation should never had intervened in the Kobali-Vaadwaur conflict in the first place. Or only as mediator. Prime directive and all that.
Except it's NOT a dispute between those two races at all. It's little more than a coincidence really. Yes, the Vaadwaur claimed they were attacking because of that, but.... we later find out they didn't really care. When the Kobali offer to GIVE all of the not-yet-Kobali Vaadwaur over, the Vaadwaur were like "no thanks".
Yeah.... that says a lot about the motives of the Vaadwaur. They were attacking the Kobali as one aspect of their attempted conquest of the entire sector. Like with the Talaxians, the Vaadwaur decided to use guile to make conquest easier.
Klingon because that sort of thing would invariably disgust a Klingon's sense of honor, and in the case of Starfleet, because the player character is the highest ranking starfleet officer present, over both ensign and captain Kim.
was it worf who stated that there is honor in facing ones own fears and it taking a brave man to face them, and martok was standing there agreeing?
in this case the original harry kim was afraid to become what he had become, ketan, he fought well but ultimately he looked in himself and it took courage and strength to face coming to terms with his new condition. there is honor in that. so i dont see what is so disgusting about it.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Except the Kobali *do* force people to undergo all that brainwashing, and they are discouraged from trying to regain their old lives-basically they treat them like disobedient children that don't know any better. When that Voyager crewmember tried to run away, they were ready to take her back by force. They treat all those old memories as something that must be grown out of...so yeah, you can leave...after they are done 'raising' (brainwashing their old identities away).
It is not brain washing. It's a completely new brain chemistry. The process they use doesn't create humans, it creates a Kobali. The story points out that the person that used to be Harry Kim now has completely new abilities because his brain is different.
And the general story behind the Kobali explains that the memory fades away - not because someone is "brain washing" them - it's a side effect of the process of the "revival" process basically.
Either you stay dead and nothing is retained forever, or you become a Kobali and a little bit stays - and it seems that Humans so far have more problems with the whole process than other species. Only the Kobali that come from human bodies seem to retain actual memories.
I agree with the notion that it shouldn't just be the Kobali that decide arbitrarily whether a dead can become back, but I also think that turning a dead person into a new, living and breathing person is not a bad thing to do. It's about as good as allowing people to donate their organs after death to people in need.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Well, that is hard to say, they never SHOWED anyone who hadn't been human. It's said that most have little, if any, memory of who they were. Thus they normally have no reason to try to keep the new Kobali from running away. Which explains why all the former Vaadwaur turned Kobali haven't tried to rejoin their race...
Actually, we meet plenty of Kobali, we just don't get much into detail. That said - on the Kobali ground zone, we learn bit more about two of them (not much), and they really show no hint of remembering who they were.
So it seems Kobali from Humans is just a bad idea in general. It causes problems that are not normal.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
It is not brain washing. It's a completely new brain chemistry. The process they use doesn't create humans, it creates a Kobali. The story points out that the person that used to be Harry Kim now has completely new abilities because his brain is different.
And the general story behind the Kobali explains that the memory fades away - not because someone is "brain washing" them - it's a side effect of the process of the "revival" process basically.
Either you stay dead and nothing is retained forever, or you become a Kobali and a little bit stays - and it seems that Humans so far have more problems with the whole process than other species. Only the Kobali that come from human bodies seem to retain actual memories.
I agree with the notion that it shouldn't just be the Kobali that decide arbitrarily whether a dead can become back, but I also think that turning a dead person into a new, living and breathing person is not a bad thing to do. It's about as good as allowing people to donate their organs after death to people in need.
Complete agreement (and yes, I'm registered as an organ donor). It'll actually be very interesting to see if Cryptic develop this story first, as if the Kobali are, as they seem to be, a species who do "care" then as they learn more about the species they use as raw materials for their rebirth process, they should in theory adapt their customs to the beliefs of these species. Seems to me that their experiences with using human meat for the process so far consists of 2 instances, and they're just beginning to realise that human physiology has differences that mean greater memory retention post mortem. I would theorise that they'd either attempt to obtain more human meat in order to test this growing theory (the scientific approach), or they'd consider either only using volunteers (meat sack donors, but taking into consideration that for some belief systems amongst humans, the reuse of the raw materials would not be seen as sound, and thus respecting these beliefs) or banning the use of human corpses entirely (a knee jerk over-reaction imho, where simply having a system of registered donors would be a more rational approach, allowing those who would like a second shot at a different life, with all of the discoveries and new experiences to be gained, to do so).
From my perspective, put into the perspective of star fleet "explorers", the rebirth process allows yet another facet to exploration and discovery. A post-mortem chance to start afresh, with completely new experiences and discoveries that would never be possible otherwise. Registration however should be a requirement, along with councelling for those registering to ensure that they are adjusted mentally to the idea of the process.
Oh and yeah, I ran the mission a 2nd time on my main in order to find and obtain the Kobali boff. It allowed me to add her to my reserve just fine, and I then added her to my crew shortly afterwards.
Just got done playing this mission for the first time. Top shelf work. Really enjoyed it. Shows what the Devs can accomplish when they are given the correct amounts of time and resources.
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
I liked the technical aspects of the mission, but the story was a little lacklaster. I couldn't "get into it", if you kniow what I mean. Perhaps the believability wasn't there, or something.
stardestroyer001, Admiral, Explorers Fury PvE/PvP Fleet | Retired PvP Player
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9 My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
It is not brain washing. It's a completely new brain chemistry. The process they use doesn't create humans, it creates a Kobali. The story points out that the person that used to be Harry Kim now has completely new abilities because his brain is different.
And the general story behind the Kobali explains that the memory fades away - not because someone is "brain washing" them - it's a side effect of the process of the "revival" process basically.
Either you stay dead and nothing is retained forever, or you become a Kobali and a little bit stays - and it seems that Humans so far have more problems with the whole process than other species. Only the Kobali that come from human bodies seem to retain actual memories.
I agree with the notion that it shouldn't just be the Kobali that decide arbitrarily whether a dead can become back, but I also think that turning a dead person into a new, living and breathing person is not a bad thing to do. It's about as good as allowing people to donate their organs after death to people in need.
The personality and memories can carry over in the revivees, so the fact that they have different 'brain chemistry' doesn't really matter. Picard and Seven have different 'brain chemistry' thanks to borg implants and nanites. That doesn't mean that they should accept being borg and just return to the collective because their memories of their past life are keeping them from moving on or whatever.
This isn't something that only happens in humans either. the kobali mention it happening outside of Jhet'leya. They have protocols for capturing and bringing back runaways, after all.
They don't let kobali act on past memories or personality, and will seize them by force if they have to to keep them from choosing a path other than that of the Kobali. That is brainwashing my book as Kobali have no other option other than to submit to the Kobali way.
Of course, the big issue at hand here, is that the Kobali chronically do this with no regard to the wishes of the deceased themselves. every single time we have seen it both on-screen and in-game. They have killed Kobali civilians to resurrect, and have done the same with Kobali soldiers. Both explicitly against the will of the Kobali involved, When called out on how despicable it was, they promised to only use volunteers from then on and then immediately resurrected the dead Kim they had in stasis. If the Kobali were really sincere about being true to their word, that would be one thing, but they have shown repeatedly that they don't give a darn what the resurrectee wants, before or after they are raised from the dead.
We don't know that the revival process itself cannot be performed without rewriting the individuals DNA.
The Kobali never released the details of the revivification and conversion processes, and the most likely reason for the secrecy is because the two procedures are completely separate, and if that information got out other races would react in a negative hostile manner towards the Kobali.
All we do know is that a revived person comes back with his original personality, and his personality is destroyed during the process of converting the individual into a Kobali.
We also know that the individuals personality isn't always successful because even before the Kobali began destroying the personalities of revived humans they already had a term for escapees and established procedures for hunting them down and dragging them back against their wills.
It is quite easy to infer that the process of becoming a Kobali IS the revival process; as the process only works ONCE.
Kobali can't revive other Kobali.
They state this implicitly in dialogue on Kobali Prime. Also, if they could revive their own deceased they'd have almost no impetus to seek out the large numbers of alien corpses that they do, they'd just re-use their own, ad-infinitum.
STO Forum member since 2008, player since 2012 - funny story that
According to who? The Kobali? A race that has demonstrated a fanatical unwillingness to allow the revived to leave their society of their own free will? They have every reason to lie.
We've seen that level of anti-social fanaticism, rigid control over it's species, and a willingness to hide the truth from everyone including their own people in the Voth.
IDK man... in the mission they say the revived Harry Kim can leave if he want's and that the Kobali will be his family and always look out for him. That's not an unwillingness to let him leave if he wants to.
According to who? The Kobali? A race that has demonstrated a fanatical unwillingness to allow the revived to leave their society of their own free will? They have every reason to lie.
We've seen that level of anti-social fanaticism, rigid control over it's species, and a willingness to hide the truth from everyone including their own people in the Voth.
Any revivied Kobali is free ot choose their own destiny, even if that means leaving Kobali Prime. They are discouraged, surely, as no family wishes to see their youngest leave home and risk death, but in the end the parth they choose is theirs alone.
However, a newborn Kobali must forget the past. Any attempt to maintain contact with their past life can only result in emotional torture.
I did not enjoy the puzzles. That sort of unforgiving, perfection-demanding platformer stuff belongs in, if anything, elite STFs and that's all. Using it to pad the length of a story mission just takes the only part of STO that is still relaxing and casual- solo story play- and lowers it to the standard set by the rest of DR.
I enjoyed the story even less. The premise is using force to make someone become someone else against their will. It's obscene. The Kobali are evil. Making them our good guy, do no wrong allies in the storyline is a serious plot misstep.
There's a lot of good in this mission- the effects are very well-done. The combat outside the temple was fun, I liked fighting the tanks. The ship chase at warp showed off what can be done, it was just too short. The VO was good.
And yet the Kobali mercilessly hunt down runners and drag them back against their will so they can finish destroying the personality they were naturally born with.
The Kobali victims aren't newborns. They are sentient beings who are being violated both physically and mentally against their wills.
On one hand I wholly agree with you. If this were real life and a person were abducted from their home, brainwashed and encouraged to forgo their previous existence, it would be a serious violation of more international laws than I can even count.
However, this isnt the real world. In the Star Trek universe I am sure there numerous people from a multitude of cultures that share your point of view to a tee, just as I am certain there would be an equal number of individuals that disagree. When it boils down to brass tax, they never abducted anyone. The collected the dead and gave them a new opportunity at life. As Kobali, of course. Self-serving? Absolutely! Thats how theyve chosen to propagate their species as, apparently, they have lost the ability to physically reproduce (perhaps too many centuries of cloning?)
It has been explained that not all who are reborn retain the memories of their past lives for long. This is why it is crucial that they remain with their new Kobali family until this transition takes place. Most choose to stay among the Kobali after they lose their memories. Most, not all. Once the initial state of confusion, etc. passes they are free to make their own choices. A very rare few retain memories beyond their transition phase. Most do not. Who they were is truly dead, but the body is given an opportunity to live on.
I dont see anyone complaining that Trill undergo a not wholly dissimilar process when they accept to become a host. Their personality is muted and overshadowed by the Trill parasite. Who they were before the joining ceases to exist. Some Trill are even selected to be hostbearers from birth, giving them absolutely no say in their fate whatsoever. How is this any different?
I did not enjoy the puzzles. That sort of unforgiving, perfection-demanding platformer stuff belongs in, if anything, elite STFs and that's all. Using it to pad the length of a story mission just takes the only part of STO that is still relaxing and casual- solo story play- and lowers it to the standard set by the rest of DR.
I enjoyed the story even less. The premise is using force to make someone become someone else against their will. It's obscene. The Kobali are evil. Making them our good guy, do no wrong allies in the storyline is a serious plot misstep.
There's a lot of good in this mission- the effects are very well-done. The combat outside the temple was fun, I liked fighting the tanks. The ship chase at warp showed off what can be done, it was just too short. The VO was good.
I dont mind puzzles as long as it makes sense for the story that they are there. This maze and the other platform-eqsue elements have a purpose to the story. Young Kobali-Kim is trying to throw hurdles in your way. What better than electrified floors and a maze?
AS for the latter comment of evil Kobali, see above.
I did not enjoy the puzzles. That sort of unforgiving, perfection-demanding platformer stuff belongs in, if anything, elite STFs and that's all. Using it to pad the length of a story mission just takes the only part of STO that is still relaxing and casual- solo story play- and lowers it to the standard set by the rest of DR.
The jumping puzzles only remind everyone how terrible ground movement is in this game.
I'm not sure why they wanted that highlighted.
The difference with the Trill is, they are given the choice to undergo joining. They can choose to or not. And the symbiote personality does not override the host. The two blend together to form a new personality. The majority of the host personality remains intact, but there are influences from past hosts (such as Ezri becoming left handed after joining). The Trill are allowed to remain in contact and even live with those from their lives prior to joining (as long as they don't hook up with a past host's partner, but they can still be friends with them). The Trill are given years of training before joining to make this transition easier. They are carefully selected and can opt out at any time before joining.
Kobali don't do any of that. They just take random corpses and essentially desecrate them. What if the family of the deceased wants to bury them? To say goodbye to their loved one? They can't, because these aliens have come along and irrevicably altered them without so much as a "Hey, can we do this?"
The main problem people seem to have with the Kobali isn't the ressurection and conversion thing, but the complete lack permission in doing so.
*******************************************
A Romulan Strike Team, Missing Farmers and an ancient base on a Klingon Border world. But what connects them? Find out in my First Foundary mission: 'The Jeroan Farmer Escapade'
And the symbiote personality does not override the host. The two blend together to form a new personality.
And yet one of the episodes they ended up not making suggests that Jadzia, without Dax was a completely different person with her own dreams and inspirations, that were subsumed by the Dax persona.
If they didn't make it, it can't be used as evidence. With the proper training, a Trill host can take in the influences from the symbiote and incorperate it into their own personality properly. Yes, there are changes. There may even be large changes. I'm fairly sure Jadzia's love of all things Klingon is an influence from Curzon, and not something she did before joining. But she knew she was going to have changes like that happen to her. She was prepared for it. It was a choice she made herself. Kobali don't give that option. They just take dead bodies, bring them back to life and override the personality before with a new one.
That is ultimately the main difference here. Trills change their personalities by a willing, informed and well prepared choice. Kobali do not.
*******************************************
A Romulan Strike Team, Missing Farmers and an ancient base on a Klingon Border world. But what connects them? Find out in my First Foundary mission: 'The Jeroan Farmer Escapade'
Comments
As it turns out, not so much in this case. In "Ashes to Ashes", apart from a tendency to start swearing in Kobali when she got frustrated, Jhet'leya was apparently basically the same person as Ballard. And I paid attention to "Dust to Dust": no real difference between "Keten" and VOY-era Harry.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
hope they will fix it, since someone get wrong date, eighter game time or voayer time.
At least it's thematically appropriate. Memory Alpha tried to work out the date when Ballard died and then basically said "TRIBBLE it, here's the details we got, which don't add up".
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
I read that, there was a lot of issues there. Due to the stuff didn't add up. This is one of the times in the series stuff didn't add up. Oh well it happens. Not many shows out there can keep a good constant story.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Probably explains where the Borg came from.
And as for the Kobali, meh at least they wait for you to die before converting a person into one of them.
Unlike these guys
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Loque%27eque
It is the process of becoming a Kobali, the virus, that brings the dead back to life. Once the process is complete, they can't become Kobali again because they already are and therefore can't be brought back again if they die a second time. The only way to come back at all is to become a Kobali, so there is no nefarious choice the Kobali make to turn someone once they're revived, the very act of becoming a Kobali IS the revival.
Many faction is the Star Trek universe can repair damaged and mangled flesh, even when the subject has died, but all that does is make for a pretty corpse. In Star Trek, dead is usually dead. Not even the all-powerful Borg Nano-probes could get around that one; Nelix may have been dead for a while, but he had to be brought back before necrosis set in; the body Voyager brought on board from the long derelict cube may have sat up, but that was just the cybernetics moving the dead flesh; the frozen Borg found on Earth in ST:Enterprise, again it was the cybernetics moving a dead body, and once they infected a new host the cybernetics were salvaged and body fried per Borg MO (If I remember correctly the Enterprise only counted the missing team in their scans, not the team plus three cyberzombiesicles).
So the issue doesn't seem so much about being forced to become Kobali as it is about being forced to be brought back at all in the first place, and the whole Kobali thing is just some unfortunate and unavoidable side effect.
STO Forum member since 2008, player since 2012 - funny story that
The Loque'que weren't that bad really. In theory those affected could have gone back to who they were.... if not for the fact that the other race was trying to exterminate them. Except it's NOT a dispute between those two races at all. It's little more than a coincidence really. Yes, the Vaadwaur claimed they were attacking because of that, but.... we later find out they didn't really care. When the Kobali offer to GIVE all of the not-yet-Kobali Vaadwaur over, the Vaadwaur were like "no thanks".
Yeah.... that says a lot about the motives of the Vaadwaur. They were attacking the Kobali as one aspect of their attempted conquest of the entire sector. Like with the Talaxians, the Vaadwaur decided to use guile to make conquest easier.
My character Tsin'xing
Am I the only one who heard that in the voice of Dr Cooper?
"You're giving ME a crossbow?"... "BOFF!!" zapp
was it worf who stated that there is honor in facing ones own fears and it taking a brave man to face them, and martok was standing there agreeing?
in this case the original harry kim was afraid to become what he had become, ketan, he fought well but ultimately he looked in himself and it took courage and strength to face coming to terms with his new condition. there is honor in that. so i dont see what is so disgusting about it.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
And the general story behind the Kobali explains that the memory fades away - not because someone is "brain washing" them - it's a side effect of the process of the "revival" process basically.
Either you stay dead and nothing is retained forever, or you become a Kobali and a little bit stays - and it seems that Humans so far have more problems with the whole process than other species. Only the Kobali that come from human bodies seem to retain actual memories.
I agree with the notion that it shouldn't just be the Kobali that decide arbitrarily whether a dead can become back, but I also think that turning a dead person into a new, living and breathing person is not a bad thing to do. It's about as good as allowing people to donate their organs after death to people in need.
Actually, we meet plenty of Kobali, we just don't get much into detail. That said - on the Kobali ground zone, we learn bit more about two of them (not much), and they really show no hint of remembering who they were.
So it seems Kobali from Humans is just a bad idea in general. It causes problems that are not normal.
Complete agreement (and yes, I'm registered as an organ donor). It'll actually be very interesting to see if Cryptic develop this story first, as if the Kobali are, as they seem to be, a species who do "care" then as they learn more about the species they use as raw materials for their rebirth process, they should in theory adapt their customs to the beliefs of these species. Seems to me that their experiences with using human meat for the process so far consists of 2 instances, and they're just beginning to realise that human physiology has differences that mean greater memory retention post mortem. I would theorise that they'd either attempt to obtain more human meat in order to test this growing theory (the scientific approach), or they'd consider either only using volunteers (meat sack donors, but taking into consideration that for some belief systems amongst humans, the reuse of the raw materials would not be seen as sound, and thus respecting these beliefs) or banning the use of human corpses entirely (a knee jerk over-reaction imho, where simply having a system of registered donors would be a more rational approach, allowing those who would like a second shot at a different life, with all of the discoveries and new experiences to be gained, to do so).
From my perspective, put into the perspective of star fleet "explorers", the rebirth process allows yet another facet to exploration and discovery. A post-mortem chance to start afresh, with completely new experiences and discoveries that would never be possible otherwise. Registration however should be a requirement, along with councelling for those registering to ensure that they are adjusted mentally to the idea of the process.
Oh and yeah, I ran the mission a 2nd time on my main in order to find and obtain the Kobali boff. It allowed me to add her to my reserve just fine, and I then added her to my crew shortly afterwards.
Missing the good ol' days of PvP: Legacy of Romulus to Season 9
My List of Useful Links, Recently Updated November 25 2017!
This isn't something that only happens in humans either. the kobali mention it happening outside of Jhet'leya. They have protocols for capturing and bringing back runaways, after all.
They don't let kobali act on past memories or personality, and will seize them by force if they have to to keep them from choosing a path other than that of the Kobali. That is brainwashing my book as Kobali have no other option other than to submit to the Kobali way.
Of course, the big issue at hand here, is that the Kobali chronically do this with no regard to the wishes of the deceased themselves. every single time we have seen it both on-screen and in-game. They have killed Kobali civilians to resurrect, and have done the same with Kobali soldiers. Both explicitly against the will of the Kobali involved, When called out on how despicable it was, they promised to only use volunteers from then on and then immediately resurrected the dead Kim they had in stasis. If the Kobali were really sincere about being true to their word, that would be one thing, but they have shown repeatedly that they don't give a darn what the resurrectee wants, before or after they are raised from the dead.
It is quite easy to infer that the process of becoming a Kobali IS the revival process; as the process only works ONCE.
Kobali can't revive other Kobali.
They state this implicitly in dialogue on Kobali Prime. Also, if they could revive their own deceased they'd have almost no impetus to seek out the large numbers of alien corpses that they do, they'd just re-use their own, ad-infinitum.
STO Forum member since 2008, player since 2012 - funny story that
IDK man... in the mission they say the revived Harry Kim can leave if he want's and that the Kobali will be his family and always look out for him. That's not an unwillingness to let him leave if he wants to.
She's lost in the maze - you have to find her to get her.
Any revivied Kobali is free ot choose their own destiny, even if that means leaving Kobali Prime. They are discouraged, surely, as no family wishes to see their youngest leave home and risk death, but in the end the parth they choose is theirs alone.
However, a newborn Kobali must forget the past. Any attempt to maintain contact with their past life can only result in emotional torture.
I enjoyed the story even less. The premise is using force to make someone become someone else against their will. It's obscene. The Kobali are evil. Making them our good guy, do no wrong allies in the storyline is a serious plot misstep.
There's a lot of good in this mission- the effects are very well-done. The combat outside the temple was fun, I liked fighting the tanks. The ship chase at warp showed off what can be done, it was just too short. The VO was good.
On one hand I wholly agree with you. If this were real life and a person were abducted from their home, brainwashed and encouraged to forgo their previous existence, it would be a serious violation of more international laws than I can even count.
However, this isnt the real world. In the Star Trek universe I am sure there numerous people from a multitude of cultures that share your point of view to a tee, just as I am certain there would be an equal number of individuals that disagree. When it boils down to brass tax, they never abducted anyone. The collected the dead and gave them a new opportunity at life. As Kobali, of course. Self-serving? Absolutely! Thats how theyve chosen to propagate their species as, apparently, they have lost the ability to physically reproduce (perhaps too many centuries of cloning?)
It has been explained that not all who are reborn retain the memories of their past lives for long. This is why it is crucial that they remain with their new Kobali family until this transition takes place. Most choose to stay among the Kobali after they lose their memories. Most, not all. Once the initial state of confusion, etc. passes they are free to make their own choices. A very rare few retain memories beyond their transition phase. Most do not. Who they were is truly dead, but the body is given an opportunity to live on.
I dont see anyone complaining that Trill undergo a not wholly dissimilar process when they accept to become a host. Their personality is muted and overshadowed by the Trill parasite. Who they were before the joining ceases to exist. Some Trill are even selected to be hostbearers from birth, giving them absolutely no say in their fate whatsoever. How is this any different?
I dont mind puzzles as long as it makes sense for the story that they are there. This maze and the other platform-eqsue elements have a purpose to the story. Young Kobali-Kim is trying to throw hurdles in your way. What better than electrified floors and a maze?
AS for the latter comment of evil Kobali, see above.
The jumping puzzles only remind everyone how terrible ground movement is in this game.
I'm not sure why they wanted that highlighted.
Kobali don't do any of that. They just take random corpses and essentially desecrate them. What if the family of the deceased wants to bury them? To say goodbye to their loved one? They can't, because these aliens have come along and irrevicably altered them without so much as a "Hey, can we do this?"
The main problem people seem to have with the Kobali isn't the ressurection and conversion thing, but the complete lack permission in doing so.
A Romulan Strike Team, Missing Farmers and an ancient base on a Klingon Border world. But what connects them? Find out in my First Foundary mission: 'The Jeroan Farmer Escapade'
And yet one of the episodes they ended up not making suggests that Jadzia, without Dax was a completely different person with her own dreams and inspirations, that were subsumed by the Dax persona.
That is ultimately the main difference here. Trills change their personalities by a willing, informed and well prepared choice. Kobali do not.
A Romulan Strike Team, Missing Farmers and an ancient base on a Klingon Border world. But what connects them? Find out in my First Foundary mission: 'The Jeroan Farmer Escapade'
Accolades and they marked that the path leads to a dead end.
(UFP) Ragnar