I have tried this stupid mission now with 3 toons. I can do everything till the final floor panels. Those last 10 in a row make it impossible for me to get through. All of my friends that made it through did so purely by sheer luck.
This really seems like a payback episode to players because of complaints maybe. I wonder if the devs can even do it?
This game is becoming less and less fun for me. The events are becoming less and less fun. Games are suppose to be fun.
Hello again.
I posted some suggestions in the other thread about it. The ten panel section just requires a pistol with autofire on it's main fire ability. then you can concentrate on movement across the platforms. You don't need to sprint as it can result in overshooting the panels.
Chris Robert's on SC:
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
had no problem with the maze, hit only 2 dead ends from the start. you think less logically on the subject and more along the outerwalls. found my way to a perfect vantage point to the exit pretty quickly.
the one thing i had an issue with is the early problem solving, zap zap zap. could use a slightly longer delay between each point activation. other then that, played the hardest difficulty no problem when making the choice. fairly simple ending.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
I enjoyed this mission too. It had a good mix of action and dialogue.
It was nice to see the obstacle course nature of some maps and I liked the fact that it involved your BOFFs for at least part of the mission. Loved the maze. I wished they'd made the episode a little more creepy though, a bit closer to What Lies Beneath, as we're essentially beneath a crypt.
The voice work was really great. Kim Rhodes and Garrett Wang made this episode memorable. Kim added warmth to what is essentially an expressionless cgi character. It takes really good voice acting to pull that off.
I don't know why Starfleet would have anything to do with the Kobali though, and am pretty certain that the Klingons would view them as desecrating the honor of the fallen. By resurrecting the dead they're basically tearing their souls out of Stovokor. That's what I don't understand about the whole Delta Rising concept - it doesn't work for the Klingons in my opinion.
But I enjoyed the episode, and I think it was the best since Surface Tension.
Aye, it's really glaring...Kobali are good guys basically because of authorial fiat. Kobali-Kim has to go back with the Kobali instead of returning to starfleet because...because.
Particularly galling if you are playing Klingon or Starfleet. Klingon because that sort of thing would invariably disgust a Klingon's sense of honor, and in the case of Starfleet, because the player character is the highest ranking starfleet officer present, over both ensign and captain Kim.
And all we can do is offer the meekest of criticisms of the Kobali in this regard. Like the episode the Kobali originated from, it's a copout, with the Kobali/coworkers of the individual browbeating them into returning to the Kobali passively.
Honestly, it sounds worse than being assimilated by the borg. Can you imagine how that must have been for the Vaaudwaur who were returned as Kobali? particularly with the brainwashing that's heavily implied by the Kobali, it sounds like some sort of waking nightmare scenario.
I too liked the mission quite a bit. A shame that they don't do more stuff like this, but LOVE to add grind content wherever they can. The curse of F2P I guess.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
The mission is enjoyable and versatile so no grievances from me here.
I completed the maze without activating a single mark, but that didn't grant any accolade.
Also choosing the hard option at the retracting platforms doesn't give any accolade, unless the times you can die is limited or there is a time limit to complete it.
Tyr shall give me strength! For the glory of Tempus! I am the hands of Shar! Flames of Kossuth, protect me! Oghma, grant me knowledge! Lolth commands, and I obey!
the pods i cant get passed even when i think i time it and the electric is off i die and my body rubber bands...the maze easy as is the platforms,....lame
Aye, it's really glaring...Kobali are good guys basically because of authorial fiat. Kobali-Kim has to go back with the Kobali instead of returning to starfleet because...because.
Or maybe they are the good guys because taking the dead and giving them new life is not a bad thing to do.
And he goes to the Kobali because he isn't any longer that Harry Kim, and to deal with his new situation, he gets the best help by people that have gone through exactly the same experience.
Remember - every Kobali we see come from someone that has died. All of them have the experience of memories of their past life, but being a new individual - and all of these seem to think that their best place is among each other, not among the people they once knew.
And without the Kobali, you know what would have happened to the Kim that died? Right, his dead corpse would keep floating away through space. Heck, he may be in a situation almost worse than most dead people - He was quantum duplicated, he was barely mourned by anyone because he was replaced by his own duplicate (do we eve know there is away to distinguish original from copy?), and the duplicates crew is all dead. No one could really miss or mourn him, because he was right there with everyone, doing fine (well, not doing fine, he gained no respect from his superiors as even in the following 5 years he was not once promoted.)
Particularly galling if you are playing Klingon or Starfleet. Klingon because that sort of thing would invariably disgust a Klingon's sense of honor, and in the case of Starfleet, because the player character is the highest ranking starfleet officer present, over both ensign and captain Kim.
1) KLingons see the dead as empty shells, without any deeper meaning. They hold no sentimal value to them, and their is no particular honor or dishonor attached with them. What matters is how you lived and how you died.
2) Even a Fleet Admiral cannot disallow a person to decide to leave Starfleet. We have seen episodes where people gave their resignation to their commanding officers, and not once was it implied they get anything else to do but accept it. (The only thing they can do is delay relaying the information to their superiors and give the officers a chance to rethink their decision...)
And all we can do is offer the meekest of criticisms of the Kobali in this regard. Like the episode the Kobali originated from, it's a copout, with the Kobali/coworkers of the individual browbeating them into returning to the Kobali passively.
Honestly, it sounds worse than being assimilated by the borg. Can you imagine how that must have been for the Vaaudwaur who were returned as Kobali? particularly with the brainwashing that's heavily implied by the Kobali, it sounds like some sort of waking nightmare scenario.
Can you imagine how it must be to be in a situation where you learn that you have died, and you only retain vague memories and personality aspects of the person you once were, and it fades away as things go on? But luckily, there are people that have gone through the exact same experience and they help you. But you aren't forced to go with them forever and follow orders or whatever - you're a free person.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
The mission is enjoyable and versatile so no grievances from me here.
I completed the maze without activating a single mark, but that didn't grant any accolade.
Also choosing the hard option at the retracting platforms doesn't give any accolade, unless the times you can die is limited or there is a time limit to complete it.
The accolade is awarded for no deaths on very hard.
All the accolades in this mission appear on the same section in the accolade log, showing how to get them all.
Or maybe they are the good guys because taking the dead and giving them new life is not a bad thing to do.
These people are effectively the result of nonconsensual sex. Just because nonconsensual sex can result in offspring, does not in any way make the act in any way something that can be condoned.
And he goes to the Kobali because he isn't any longer that Harry Kim, and to deal with his new situation, he gets the best help by people that have gone through exactly the same experience.
Except they still very much are the same person. This isn't like the Elachii where they use the body as fertilizer to grow a new Elachii....the person is the same body, the same cells (genetically modified) and much of the same memories, wants, desires, and fears and personality.
Remember - every Kobali we see come from someone that has died. All of them have the experience of memories of their past life, but being a new individual - and all of these seem to think that their best place is among each other, not among the people they once knew.
The Kobali say they are a different person, but the facts just don't hold up to that. All the Kobali cultural parts of them have to be taught by other Kobali, They are far from blank slates. Thus the closest they have to family are the very same people the Kobali want to keep them away from and forget about.
And without the Kobali, you know what would have happened to the Kim that died? Right, his dead corpse would keep floating away through space. Heck, he may be in a situation almost worse than most dead people - He was quantum duplicated, he was barely mourned by anyone because he was replaced by his own duplicate (do we eve know there is away to distinguish original from copy?), and the duplicates crew is all dead. No one could really miss or mourn him, because he was right there with everyone, doing fine (well, not doing fine, he gained no respect from his superiors as even in the following 5 years he was not once promoted.)
And by Harry's own mouth, we know he would have been fine with remaining dead. Both captain and ensign Kim were not happy with the situation.
1) KLingons see the dead as empty shells, without any deeper meaning. They hold no sentimal value to them, and their is no particular honor or dishonor attached with them. What matters is how you lived and how you died.
2) Even a Fleet Admiral cannot disallow a person to decide to leave Starfleet. We have seen episodes where people gave their resignation to their commanding officers, and not once was it implied they get anything else to do but accept it. (The only thing they can do is delay relaying the information to their superiors and give the officers a chance to rethink their decision...)
1) Except it isn't just their bodies. Skills, knowledge, memories, personality...carries over when they are resurrected. This isn't like the Kahless clone. (and he still got a ceremonial post out of it)
2) You don't even get the chance to really disagree with the kobali lady, or try and convince him to stay. The character gets to sit by and let the Kobali browbeat him into giving up everything that defines him. And we have to sit by and agree with her.
Can you imagine how it must be to be in a situation where you learn that you have died, and you only retain vague memories and personality aspects of the person you once were, and it fades away as things go on? But luckily, there are people that have gone through the exact same experience and they help you. But you aren't forced to go with them forever and follow orders or whatever - you're a free person.
Except the Kobali *do* force people to undergo all that brainwashing, and they are discouraged from trying to regain their old lives-basically they treat them like disobedient children that don't know any better. When that Voyager crewmember tried to run away, they were ready to take her back by force. They treat all those old memories as something that must be grown out of...so yeah, you can leave...after they are done 'raising' (brainwashing their old identities away).
These people are effectively the result of nonconsensual sex. Just because nonconsensual sex can result in offspring, does not in any way make the act in any way something that can be condoned.
Except they still very much are the same person. This isn't like the Elachii where they use the body as fertilizer to grow a new Elachii....the person is the same body, the same cells (genetically modified) and much of the same memories, wants, desires, and fears and personality.
The Kobali say they are a different person, but the facts just don't hold up to that. All the Kobali cultural parts of them have to be taught by other Kobali, They are far from blank slates. Thus the closest they have to family are the very same people the Kobali want to keep them away from and forget about.
And by Harry's own mouth, we know he would have been fine with remaining dead. Both captain and ensign Kim were not happy with the situation.
1) Except it isn't just their bodies. Skills, knowledge, memories, personality...carries over when they are resurrected. This isn't like the Kahless clone. (and he still got a ceremonial post out of it)
2) You don't even get the chance to really disagree with the kobali lady, or try and convince him to stay. The character gets to sit by and let the Kobali browbeat him into giving up everything that defines him. And we have to sit by and agree with her.
Except the Kobali *do* force people to undergo all that brainwashing, and they are discouraged from trying to regain their old lives-basically they treat them like disobedient children that don't know any better. When that Voyager crewmember tried to run away, they were ready to take her back by force. They treat all those old memories as something that must be grown out of...so yeah, you can leave...after they are done 'raising' (brainwashing their old identities away).
I agree with this 100%. Just going from "Ashes to Ashes", Q'Ret's actions alone constitute domestic and emotional abuse, which are criminal offenses. Kobali standard reproductive procedure is a massive violation of sentient rights on par with r*pe; massive violation and re-organization of biology and even psychology.
Note that all of the Kobali we meet love being Kobali and want to bring more people into the Kobali way. Note that they cannot imagine why someone would not want to be Kobali or why turning someone into a Kobali sans consent is wrong.
That's mass brainwashing.
The Kobali are Designated Heroes at BEST. They commit crimes against sentience as a matter of course. It's disgusting. And the original episode that they appear in has a very disturbing "you should go with your kind" racist vibe that I don't like.
I agree with this 100%. Just going from "Ashes to Ashes", Q'Ret's actions alone constitute domestic and emotional abuse, which are criminal offenses. Kobali standard reproductive procedure is a massive violation of sentient rights on par with r*pe; massive violation and re-organization of biology and even psychology.
Note that all of the Kobali we meet love being Kobali and want to bring more people into the Kobali way. Note that they cannot imagine why someone would not want to be Kobali or why turning someone into a Kobali sans consent is wrong.
That's mass brainwashing.
The Kobali are Designated Heroes at BEST. They commit crimes against sentience as a matter of course. It's disgusting. And the original episode that they appear in has a very disturbing "you should go with your kind" racist vibe that I don't like.
Exactly, it has heavy overtones of non-consensual sex, desecration, and brainwashing, which is what made the original episode so disturbing to watch.
If anything Cryptic managed to make it more disturbing by revealing that the Kobali were resurrecting dead Vaaudwaur and using them as 'reinforcements'. There is no way that occurred without brainwashing. (not to mention how it seems disturbingly close to using child soldiers)
This in a nutshell is what I've been arguing in a thread up in Galactic News Network. The Vaadwaur, Gaul excepted, are only the antagonists of the storyline. The Kobali are the real villains.
Yeah, I don't buy that. The Vaadwaur generally agree with Gaul, except for his ulterior motive of trying to spread the bluegills. That is what the others disagree with, and it seems Gaul didn't voluntarily do that either. But yeah, the Vaadwaur as a whole see nothing wrong with killing or enslaving others.
The Kobali abhor violence, and try to get along with everyone. They fail at it, but they at least try.
Exactly, it has heavy overtones of non-consensual sex, desecration, and brainwashing, which is what made the original episode so disturbing to watch.
If anything Cryptic managed to make it more disturbing by revealing that the Kobali were resurrecting dead Vaaudwaur and using them as 'reinforcements'. There is no way that occurred without brainwashing. (not to mention how it seems disturbingly close to using child soldiers)
Actually... Jhetleya mentions in Dust that it's UNUSUAL for new Kobali to remember who they were. She speculates that it might be a quirk of human physiology that caused her and Keten to remember their previous lives so vividly. In the case of Vaadwaur, they might have total permanent amnesia.
I have tried this stupid mission now with 3 toons. I can do everything till the final floor panels. Those last 10 in a row make it impossible for me to get through. All of my friends that made it through did so purely by sheer luck.
This really seems like a payback episode to players because of complaints maybe. I wonder if the devs can even do it?
This game is becoming less and less fun for me. The events are becoming less and less fun. Games are suppose to be fun.
I made it through on my second run through. Just had to slow down. Shoot one target move onto a safe spot on the platform, shoot the next target, repeat.
I did hit a snag though with the boff on the maze. I found her, talked to her both times I tried the mission, and when I did complete it, she is not on my candidate list, so I lost her. Makes me wonder if because I had to abort the mission on first try (I had to go to work) it put her down as a failure to acquire. Anyone have any insight on that?
Yeah, I don't buy that. The Vaadwaur generally agree with Gaul, except for his ulterior motive of trying to spread the bluegills. That is what the others disagree with, and it seems Gaul didn't voluntarily do that either. But yeah, the Vaadwaur as a whole see nothing wrong with killing or enslaving others.
And the Klingons don't?
And yes, that was voluntary on Gaul's part, part of his deal with the Iconians. It seems the Vaadwaur leadership weren't willing to go along with him, another point in their favor. Look at that: they're already objectively better people than the Klingons.
The Kobali abhor violence, and try to get along with everyone. They fail at it, but they at least try.
They say they abhor violence but they seem to think nothing of retrieving newborn Kobali involuntarily and by force if, horror of horrors, they decide they'd rather go back to their old life.
Did you actually watch the original episode "Ashes to Ashes"?
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
I still maintain that the Kobali aren't a humanoid species as such, but are in fact the end result of horrific experiments in biological warfare. I think their "reproductive" method only makes the least bit of sense if they are in fact sapient viral colonies, infecting dead tissue and animating the corpse in a terrible semblance of continuing life.
For some reason, humans seem to be able to retain physical memory imprints in the dead brain tissue for longer than the other species which have been infected with Kobali; this may be unique to humans, or it may spread across Alpha Quadrant sapients (so far as I know, not many Alphans have been subjected to the "rebirth" process yet).
However, I would liken the process more to fictional zombification than to nonconsensual sex. A zombie might or might not retain memories from its days as a living being - but it is now a different creature than it had been, at its most fundamental levels, and the being it was will fade over time to nothing as its new state of existence takes over. And consent doesn't enter the picture, really - a corpse can neither agree nor abstain.
I still maintain that the Kobali aren't a humanoid species as such, but are in fact the end result of horrific experiments in biological warfare. I think their "reproductive" method only makes the least bit of sense if they are in fact sapient viral colonies, infecting dead tissue and animating the corpse in a terrible semblance of continuing life.
There's an implication in the Kobali BZ storyline that the Kobali were dicking around with genetic engineering and accidentally sterilized themselves. Apparently clinical trials are an invention unique to the Alpha Quadrant.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Life as we - and they - know it, is impossible for them. No reproduction, no real people from their "living" times are left. In fact Kobali are not Kobali anymore. They are all other creatures, but no Kobali.
If they would be able to undue the mistakes that their "ancestors" have done and if they would spread their knowledge to help other people or to prevent them from doing such terrible mistakes, the would be able to do something for other "people". But the Kobali themselves are as dead as ever possible. No real future for them.
Individually the dead and reborn people get a new lease of life. But it is already terminated by the fact, that they cannot pass it to their real children. They ARE Zombies!
I feel pity for them. In the game of life, they have lost already, because they exterminated themselves long, long ago.
Honestly if Kobali existed today I'd put it in my will to go through the Kobali rebirth process after I pass on. The only stipulation in the will being that I will be able to complete anything I may have left unfinished as I'd start my new life as a Kobali. Be a nice way to tidy up things after death and recycle.
Remember that B5 episode where a race created biological warrior weapons programmed to destroy anything that wasn't a pure member of the race and the weapons wiped them out because no one met the standards of purity?
I'm betting the kobali are voyagers version of that b5 episode.
And which in turn hearkens back to how the X-Men defeated the master Sentinel known as Master Mold - by demonstrating that the X-gene, which the Sentinels were programmed to destroy in order to protect humanity, was present in the entire human race, and was the fault of solar radiation. The Sentinels then set off en masse to do battle with the Sun, a battle which they obviously lost.
I posted some suggestions in the other thread about it. The ten panel section just requires a pistol with autofire on it's main fire ability. then you can concentrate on movement across the platforms. You don't need to sprint as it can result in overshooting the panels.
Thank you for the help. Actually I figured another way to do it. You can team and do the episode and so only need to shoot at one side while running. Or have someone shoot and get to the safe part, then shoot to get one person across. I really like this as it has helped developed team work. We are going to try very hard now and see how it goes. Works well with voice chat too, and for me made the mission really fun finally.
Yeah, I don't buy that. The Vaadwaur generally agree with Gaul, except for his ulterior motive of trying to spread the bluegills. That is what the others disagree with, and it seems Gaul didn't voluntarily do that either. But yeah, the Vaadwaur as a whole see nothing wrong with killing or enslaving others.
The Kobali abhor violence, and try to get along with everyone. They fail at it, but they at least try.
We hate violence. That's why we are not actively killing people to use their bodies, oh no, that would be bad.
No, we let them die. Passively. We could help them, and release them, but we let them die. Because you know, we are not violent. We are the poor guys.
In the process, we let another race become extinct, but who cares ? They are the bad guys !
As for Vaadwaur being inherently evil, well, planet of hats and all that. Also, Klingons see nothing wrong in killing and enslaving. So do the Romulan (granted, the Republic have a bit more moral standing, but not that much). As for the Federation, they use holograms for hard labor, even when they know for a fact they can reach sentience. Especially the model used.
And to be honest, having your entire civilization destroyed, your species bring to the verge of extinction, and see what's left of your people slowly die in the hand of another species can bring anyone angry and revengeful.
As for judging the Vaadwaur evil, and let them die for that, our history is full of example of others country/religion/ethnic group being judged as evil. And we all know how it turned.
It's morally wrong. Period.
The Federation should never had intervened in the Kobali-Vaadwaur conflict in the first place. Or only as mediator. Prime directive and all that.
I finally got most of the mission done. Ran out of time to really finish it. Hope to the next time I get on. How it goes at times. However most of it, it looks great. I didn't read the text for the chat, turned my head during the cutscenes, and didn't have my speakers on. Since I didn't want to ruin the story since I hadn't finished the main story leading up to this. I plan on redoing the mission fully once I get to it like I'm supposed to. Then I will be able to listen, watch, and read what all happened.
As for the Kobali. They are in a very bad situation. They are forced to go beyond normal standards to survive. Part I would say they are bad, other I would say they are not. Just trying to survive, until a cure or fix is found for their situation. So I can't say they are evil or good. They are not like a criminal who actually has a choice of their actions. So they decided to be evil in their actions. Where the Kobali do not have a choice. Its either do so to live or die. They finding the Vaadwaur pods, they took advantage of a thought to be a dead civilization. Until they came back and with vengeance. Where before they really didn't bother much and most might didn't have issues with them. Where this went to a really big scale event.
I see the Kobali suffering from their past actions, forcing them to do what ever to survive.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
The Federation should never had intervened in the Kobali-Vaadwaur conflict in the first place. Or only as mediator. Prime directive and all that.
Oh, that's even the best part. The Federation was duped into helping the Kobali. The Kobali are dishonest holier-than-thou wishy-washy villains. They're liars of Elim Garak proportions: other than "the Vaadwaur are trying to kill us" there hasn't been a single claim their leaders have made that has held up.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Well...I think the Kobali HAVE committed war crimes and do owe reparations to the Vaadwaur as the crimes are recent, ongoing, and pervasive. However, they should then have a chance to compete financially to get futures on corpses from Ferengi willing to sell, and others who may be willing. But if they cannot compete successfully in the financial and idea marketplaces...oh well.
Conversely, if it were me, I would also talk to Eldex and try to convince him of how much money there is to be made selling the antidote for individuals who do not want to be converted, and want an insurance policy to that effect. The idea here would be to show respect and means of gaining an advantage to both races.
Of course, for the Kobali, they would have to immediately surrender all Vaadwaur corpses in their possession or alternately allow a combined Starfleet-Vaadwaur monitoring force on their world should the Vaadwaur in stasis be unmovable, and in return I would expect cessation of hostilities against Kobali and allied forces by the Vaadwaur and withdrawal of all but the permitted monitors.
As far as "Keten," I would've pushed harder and demanded immediate release to Starfleet. Or had the devs wanted to go a really dark direction, we could've had the dialogue grow increasingly distraught and then a sudden cut to black where you hear panic, a weapons discharge, and when you come back, you are back on the surface and you hear that "Keten" is dead and now Jhet'leya must live with the full consequences of her actions and this incident is used to press the Kobali to the terms I outlined above.
(As for not showing what actually happened to "Keten," I suspect there could be ESRB problems if they did.)
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Comments
Hello again.
I posted some suggestions in the other thread about it. The ten panel section just requires a pistol with autofire on it's main fire ability. then you can concentrate on movement across the platforms. You don't need to sprint as it can result in overshooting the panels.
"You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
the one thing i had an issue with is the early problem solving, zap zap zap. could use a slightly longer delay between each point activation. other then that, played the hardest difficulty no problem when making the choice. fairly simple ending.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
It was nice to see the obstacle course nature of some maps and I liked the fact that it involved your BOFFs for at least part of the mission. Loved the maze. I wished they'd made the episode a little more creepy though, a bit closer to What Lies Beneath, as we're essentially beneath a crypt.
The voice work was really great. Kim Rhodes and Garrett Wang made this episode memorable. Kim added warmth to what is essentially an expressionless cgi character. It takes really good voice acting to pull that off.
I don't know why Starfleet would have anything to do with the Kobali though, and am pretty certain that the Klingons would view them as desecrating the honor of the fallen. By resurrecting the dead they're basically tearing their souls out of Stovokor. That's what I don't understand about the whole Delta Rising concept - it doesn't work for the Klingons in my opinion.
But I enjoyed the episode, and I think it was the best since Surface Tension.
Well done!
Particularly galling if you are playing Klingon or Starfleet. Klingon because that sort of thing would invariably disgust a Klingon's sense of honor, and in the case of Starfleet, because the player character is the highest ranking starfleet officer present, over both ensign and captain Kim.
And all we can do is offer the meekest of criticisms of the Kobali in this regard. Like the episode the Kobali originated from, it's a copout, with the Kobali/coworkers of the individual browbeating them into returning to the Kobali passively.
Honestly, it sounds worse than being assimilated by the borg. Can you imagine how that must have been for the Vaaudwaur who were returned as Kobali? particularly with the brainwashing that's heavily implied by the Kobali, it sounds like some sort of waking nightmare scenario.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
I completed the maze without activating a single mark, but that didn't grant any accolade.
Also choosing the hard option at the retracting platforms doesn't give any accolade, unless the times you can die is limited or there is a time limit to complete it.
For the glory of Tempus!
I am the hands of Shar!
Flames of Kossuth, protect me!
Oghma, grant me knowledge!
Lolth commands, and I obey!
And he goes to the Kobali because he isn't any longer that Harry Kim, and to deal with his new situation, he gets the best help by people that have gone through exactly the same experience.
Remember - every Kobali we see come from someone that has died. All of them have the experience of memories of their past life, but being a new individual - and all of these seem to think that their best place is among each other, not among the people they once knew.
And without the Kobali, you know what would have happened to the Kim that died? Right, his dead corpse would keep floating away through space. Heck, he may be in a situation almost worse than most dead people - He was quantum duplicated, he was barely mourned by anyone because he was replaced by his own duplicate (do we eve know there is away to distinguish original from copy?), and the duplicates crew is all dead. No one could really miss or mourn him, because he was right there with everyone, doing fine (well, not doing fine, he gained no respect from his superiors as even in the following 5 years he was not once promoted.)
1) KLingons see the dead as empty shells, without any deeper meaning. They hold no sentimal value to them, and their is no particular honor or dishonor attached with them. What matters is how you lived and how you died.
2) Even a Fleet Admiral cannot disallow a person to decide to leave Starfleet. We have seen episodes where people gave their resignation to their commanding officers, and not once was it implied they get anything else to do but accept it. (The only thing they can do is delay relaying the information to their superiors and give the officers a chance to rethink their decision...)
Can you imagine how it must be to be in a situation where you learn that you have died, and you only retain vague memories and personality aspects of the person you once were, and it fades away as things go on? But luckily, there are people that have gone through the exact same experience and they help you. But you aren't forced to go with them forever and follow orders or whatever - you're a free person.
The accolade is awarded for no deaths on very hard.
All the accolades in this mission appear on the same section in the accolade log, showing how to get them all.
Commander Science, Lieutenant Commander Engineering, Lieutenant Commander Universal, Lieutenant Tactical, Ensign Science
Loooonnnng and boring. Sorry I drop it and I will never play it again!
I will play mass effect more one time, devs play mass effect and learm.
These people are effectively the result of nonconsensual sex. Just because nonconsensual sex can result in offspring, does not in any way make the act in any way something that can be condoned.
Except they still very much are the same person. This isn't like the Elachii where they use the body as fertilizer to grow a new Elachii....the person is the same body, the same cells (genetically modified) and much of the same memories, wants, desires, and fears and personality.
The Kobali say they are a different person, but the facts just don't hold up to that. All the Kobali cultural parts of them have to be taught by other Kobali, They are far from blank slates. Thus the closest they have to family are the very same people the Kobali want to keep them away from and forget about.
And by Harry's own mouth, we know he would have been fine with remaining dead. Both captain and ensign Kim were not happy with the situation.
1) Except it isn't just their bodies. Skills, knowledge, memories, personality...carries over when they are resurrected. This isn't like the Kahless clone. (and he still got a ceremonial post out of it)
2) You don't even get the chance to really disagree with the kobali lady, or try and convince him to stay. The character gets to sit by and let the Kobali browbeat him into giving up everything that defines him. And we have to sit by and agree with her.
Except the Kobali *do* force people to undergo all that brainwashing, and they are discouraged from trying to regain their old lives-basically they treat them like disobedient children that don't know any better. When that Voyager crewmember tried to run away, they were ready to take her back by force. They treat all those old memories as something that must be grown out of...so yeah, you can leave...after they are done 'raising' (brainwashing their old identities away).
I agree with this 100%. Just going from "Ashes to Ashes", Q'Ret's actions alone constitute domestic and emotional abuse, which are criminal offenses. Kobali standard reproductive procedure is a massive violation of sentient rights on par with r*pe; massive violation and re-organization of biology and even psychology.
Note that all of the Kobali we meet love being Kobali and want to bring more people into the Kobali way. Note that they cannot imagine why someone would not want to be Kobali or why turning someone into a Kobali sans consent is wrong.
That's mass brainwashing.
The Kobali are Designated Heroes at BEST. They commit crimes against sentience as a matter of course. It's disgusting. And the original episode that they appear in has a very disturbing "you should go with your kind" racist vibe that I don't like.
If anything Cryptic managed to make it more disturbing by revealing that the Kobali were resurrecting dead Vaaudwaur and using them as 'reinforcements'. There is no way that occurred without brainwashing. (not to mention how it seems disturbingly close to using child soldiers)
The Kobali abhor violence, and try to get along with everyone. They fail at it, but they at least try.
My character Tsin'xing
My character Tsin'xing
I made it through on my second run through. Just had to slow down. Shoot one target move onto a safe spot on the platform, shoot the next target, repeat.
I did hit a snag though with the boff on the maze. I found her, talked to her both times I tried the mission, and when I did complete it, she is not on my candidate list, so I lost her. Makes me wonder if because I had to abort the mission on first try (I had to go to work) it put her down as a failure to acquire. Anyone have any insight on that?
We come in peace, SHOOT TO KILL!
And yes, that was voluntary on Gaul's part, part of his deal with the Iconians. It seems the Vaadwaur leadership weren't willing to go along with him, another point in their favor. Look at that: they're already objectively better people than the Klingons.
They say they abhor violence but they seem to think nothing of retrieving newborn Kobali involuntarily and by force if, horror of horrors, they decide they'd rather go back to their old life.
Did you actually watch the original episode "Ashes to Ashes"?
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
For some reason, humans seem to be able to retain physical memory imprints in the dead brain tissue for longer than the other species which have been infected with Kobali; this may be unique to humans, or it may spread across Alpha Quadrant sapients (so far as I know, not many Alphans have been subjected to the "rebirth" process yet).
However, I would liken the process more to fictional zombification than to nonconsensual sex. A zombie might or might not retain memories from its days as a living being - but it is now a different creature than it had been, at its most fundamental levels, and the being it was will fade over time to nothing as its new state of existence takes over. And consent doesn't enter the picture, really - a corpse can neither agree nor abstain.
There's an implication in the Kobali BZ storyline that the Kobali were dicking around with genetic engineering and accidentally sterilized themselves. Apparently clinical trials are an invention unique to the Alpha Quadrant.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Life as we - and they - know it, is impossible for them. No reproduction, no real people from their "living" times are left. In fact Kobali are not Kobali anymore. They are all other creatures, but no Kobali.
If they would be able to undue the mistakes that their "ancestors" have done and if they would spread their knowledge to help other people or to prevent them from doing such terrible mistakes, the would be able to do something for other "people". But the Kobali themselves are as dead as ever possible. No real future for them.
Individually the dead and reborn people get a new lease of life. But it is already terminated by the fact, that they cannot pass it to their real children. They ARE Zombies!
I feel pity for them. In the game of life, they have lost already, because they exterminated themselves long, long ago.
Thank you for the help. Actually I figured another way to do it. You can team and do the episode and so only need to shoot at one side while running. Or have someone shoot and get to the safe part, then shoot to get one person across. I really like this as it has helped developed team work. We are going to try very hard now and see how it goes. Works well with voice chat too, and for me made the mission really fun finally.
No, we let them die. Passively. We could help them, and release them, but we let them die. Because you know, we are not violent. We are the poor guys.
In the process, we let another race become extinct, but who cares ? They are the bad guys !
As for Vaadwaur being inherently evil, well, planet of hats and all that. Also, Klingons see nothing wrong in killing and enslaving. So do the Romulan (granted, the Republic have a bit more moral standing, but not that much). As for the Federation, they use holograms for hard labor, even when they know for a fact they can reach sentience. Especially the model used.
And to be honest, having your entire civilization destroyed, your species bring to the verge of extinction, and see what's left of your people slowly die in the hand of another species can bring anyone angry and revengeful.
As for judging the Vaadwaur evil, and let them die for that, our history is full of example of others country/religion/ethnic group being judged as evil. And we all know how it turned.
It's morally wrong. Period.
The Federation should never had intervened in the Kobali-Vaadwaur conflict in the first place. Or only as mediator. Prime directive and all that.
As for the Kobali. They are in a very bad situation. They are forced to go beyond normal standards to survive. Part I would say they are bad, other I would say they are not. Just trying to survive, until a cure or fix is found for their situation. So I can't say they are evil or good. They are not like a criminal who actually has a choice of their actions. So they decided to be evil in their actions. Where the Kobali do not have a choice. Its either do so to live or die. They finding the Vaadwaur pods, they took advantage of a thought to be a dead civilization. Until they came back and with vengeance. Where before they really didn't bother much and most might didn't have issues with them. Where this went to a really big scale event.
I see the Kobali suffering from their past actions, forcing them to do what ever to survive.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
Oh, that's even the best part. The Federation was duped into helping the Kobali. The Kobali are dishonest holier-than-thou wishy-washy villains. They're liars of Elim Garak proportions: other than "the Vaadwaur are trying to kill us" there hasn't been a single claim their leaders have made that has held up.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Conversely, if it were me, I would also talk to Eldex and try to convince him of how much money there is to be made selling the antidote for individuals who do not want to be converted, and want an insurance policy to that effect. The idea here would be to show respect and means of gaining an advantage to both races.
Of course, for the Kobali, they would have to immediately surrender all Vaadwaur corpses in their possession or alternately allow a combined Starfleet-Vaadwaur monitoring force on their world should the Vaadwaur in stasis be unmovable, and in return I would expect cessation of hostilities against Kobali and allied forces by the Vaadwaur and withdrawal of all but the permitted monitors.
As far as "Keten," I would've pushed harder and demanded immediate release to Starfleet. Or had the devs wanted to go a really dark direction, we could've had the dialogue grow increasingly distraught and then a sudden cut to black where you hear panic, a weapons discharge, and when you come back, you are back on the surface and you hear that "Keten" is dead and now Jhet'leya must live with the full consequences of her actions and this incident is used to press the Kobali to the terms I outlined above.
(As for not showing what actually happened to "Keten," I suspect there could be ESRB problems if they did.)
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