I think Cryptic did something that grasps the foundation of storytelling in Star Trek. Present us with a moral dilemma, and ask how would you handle it?
It's brilliant and daring.
The question isn't 'Why the Kobali' - the real question is 'What should you do?'
Except they didn't ask, as I mentioned while you were posting. They just ordered you around, railroading you into helping the Kobali regardless of how you felt and didn't even let you say anything either way.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
That's not what I was getting at in regards to the bad writing part. I was getting at the fact that you as the player character have absolutely no say in how the story plays out regardless of your opinion of the Kobali. You don't even get to react -- Harry Kim and Mr. Random Benzite steal the show and the PC is sidelined despite being the ranking officer present and potentially not even part of Starfleet.
^^^THIS to the Max! What's the point of having a title when you level up, if said Title gets you no recognition in the game at all. Oh hey mister Fleet Admiral, Im only a captain but here is what you are going to do, oh and you will LOVE doing it!
That's not what I was getting at in regards to the bad writing part. I was getting at the fact that you as the player character have absolutely no say in how the story plays out regardless of your opinion of the Kobali. You don't even get to react -- Harry Kim and Mr. Random Benzite steal the show and the PC is sidelined despite being the ranking officer present and potentially not even part of Starfleet.
It's a themepark MMO...the rides are the same. There are countless things that I wouldn't do that we do, this is no different imho. It's also part of the we're taking orders, regardless of whether we're KDF, Rom, or Fed.
But we don't direct the story...we're not playing any sort of choose your own adventure thing. Nothing that we do matters. It's a themepark MMO. Yay, we saved the princess...so did a thousand folks before and so did a thousand folks after us. If we need the spec points, we might end up saving her a thousand times ourselves.
It's the nature of themepark MMOs. I can't think of a single thing where I would have done it the way it was done in any of the missions. But we're all just along for the ride...
...which is generally one of the reasons I'm not fond of themepark MMOs, but this is never going to be anything but a themepark MMO - so I put that aside, so I can complain about all the other things that bug me.
We've recently intercepted another transmission, regarding a ship named the Samsar! It comes from what appears to be from the Kobali known as Hanchon Jetanian.
I think Cryptic did something that grasps the foundation of storytelling in Star Trek. Present us with a moral dilemma, and ask how would you handle it?
Glad I read through the previous posts before I posted. 100% agree here.
I'm not at all a fan of the Kobali. But, seems the governments of the Federation, the Klingon Empire, and the Romulan Republic have all decided that the Kobali are the ones who will be our allies. Frankly, it's us as the player that found out about the whole 'Kobali secret' - the governments likely did not know that, or more likely didn't dig deep enough in their haste to find allies.
Either way, it kinda makes sense that the player doesn't have a choice in helping the Kobali or not. I'm a Fleet Admiral for sure (head-canon that as being the Admiral of my own mini fleet of ships), but not the full-out leader of my faction's fleet. So I'm taking orders from someone, for sure. And my orders, at least for now, are to help the Kobali. I'm not a fan of those orders, but such is life.
T6 Kobali ship? Sounds really neat to me. I'd been wondering when they'll release a Kobali ship - I'd expect next is Vadwaaur. And I'm sure they'll release faction-specific Command-specialization ships. The Winter Event Intel ship was faction non-specific, and that's great - everyone gets a fun, uniquely-styled ship. Then the faction ones are either in the C-Store or your fleet.
It's funny, imho, with all the uproar from some about the Kobali...uh...how do folks feel about the Borg, eh? Even the Borg Cooperative, yeah?
I love the Borg. Because they're zombies. They were scary when they came out- well, maybe because I was so young. That, and there's nothing more horror (which I like) than something you can't reason with.
The Borg Cooperative is like zombies that came back to life. They aren't still doing the "BRAINS" thing (read: assimilation), unlike the Kobali, who are Frankenstein'ing it up perpetually. Even Victor Frankenstein was horrified by what he had done, but the Kobali just keep rolling with it.
It's funny, imho, with all the uproar from some about the Kobali...uh...how do folks feel about the Borg, eh? Even the Borg Cooperative, yeah?
The Borg need to be exterminated for the good of everyone in the galaxy, the Iconians included. Liberate who you can, kill when you can't.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Interesting ship name, as it seems to allude to samsara, which is the term in multiple Eastern religions for the cycle of birth, death, rebirth, and the consequences of one's actions across time.
Given the Kobali's "reincarnarnating" nature I would wonder if the devs had that in mind when naming the ship...
The Borg need to be exterminated for the good of everyone in the galaxy, the Iconians included. Liberate who you can, kill when you can't.
But even if they are Liberated from the Collective and join the Cooperative...do you leave the Cooperative in place with the possibility that a Collective might form or is that too dangerous? Do you instead attempt to return all of the Liberated/Cooperative Borg to their normal states by removing the various implants if possible? And if it is not possible...do you exterminate them?
So should every potentially warlike species be exterminated? And then after we've exterminate them all...do we exterminate ourselves? What if another species might become warlike? Should we just destroy everything?
But even if they are Liberated from the Collective and join the Cooperative...do you leave the Cooperative in place with the possibility that a Collective might form or is that too dangerous? Do you instead attempt to return all of the Liberated/Cooperative Borg to their normal states by removing the various implants if possible? And if it is not possible...do you exterminate them?
So should every potentially warlike species be exterminated? And then after we've exterminate them all...do we exterminate ourselves? What if another species might become warlike? Should we just destroy everything?
We'll cross that bridge when we come to it; I'm only worried about the Collective. Unlike the Borg Collective, you can actually negotiate with the Borg Cooperative and trust them to uphold their end of the bargain, and they don't forcibly assimilate people, either. Ergo at present the Cooperative are not a threat to trillions of lives, so you take the "trust but monitor" approach like you do with any other ally.
My feelings on the Collective are quite clear. Peace with it is not possible short of altering its core programming so that it no longer forcibly assimilates people. As long as it exists with its current programming, it is a threat to trillions of lives, and with the Alliance's current toolset wiping the Collective out altogether is the only option.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
We'll cross that bridge when we come to it; I'm only worried about the Collective. Unlike the Borg Collective, you can actually negotiate with the Borg Cooperative and trust them to uphold their end of the bargain, and they don't forcibly assimilate people, either. Ergo at present the Cooperative are not a threat to trillions of lives, so you take the "trust but monitor" approach like you do with any other ally.
My feelings on the Collective are quite clear. Peace with it is not possible short of altering its core programming so that it no longer forcibly assimilates people. As long as it exists with its current programming, it is a threat to trillions of lives, and with the Alliance's current toolset wiping the Collective out altogether is the only option.
But obviously since the Cooperative exists, then something other than extermination could be done with the Collective, no?
And I still maintain, that in the end...how different is the Federation to the Borg? Think of how many groups have fought against the Federation and Starfleet...fights not much different than those fighting the Collective.
How many times in our planet's history has one group in their arrogance decided what was best for another group?
But obviously since the Cooperative exists, then something other than extermination could be done with the Collective, no?
Show me mass liberation being used as a practical battlefield tactic against the Collective instead of in one-off special cases, or a computer virus to rewrite their core programming that can't be stopped by simply unplugging the affected Borg a la Hugh, and I'll take that option. You're talking in what-ifs, I'm talking about solving the problem NOW, with the tools that are available NOW.
And I still maintain, that in the end...how different is the Federation to the Borg? Think of how many groups have fought against the Federation and Starfleet...fights not much different than those fighting the Collective.
I'll tell you how the Federation and the Borg are different. It's really simple. The Federation lets you choose to join them. Sure, they do their damnedest to convince you to do it, but the decision is ultimately yours. The Borg Collective just assimilates you whether you like it or not, and is literally incapable of doing otherwise.
How many times in our planet's history has one group in their arrogance decided what was best for another group?
That's the same bull**** argument that always gets thrown regarding the Prime Directive. "We can't do anything because we might cause irreparable harm thousands of years from now."
Well I don't hold to that. I believe in making the decision based on the situation as it currently stands, unless you have hard data that the situation will become otherwise. Not "may", will. And this case I believe that there is a greater good to uphold and that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one. Eliminating the Borg Collective as it currently exists saves trillions of lives. End of discussion.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
I love the Borg. Because they're zombies. They were scary when they came out- well, maybe because I was so young. That, and there's nothing more horror (which I like) than something you can't reason with.
The Borg Cooperative is like zombies that came back to life. They aren't still doing the "BRAINS" thing (read: assimilation), unlike the Kobali, who are Frankenstein'ing it up perpetually. Even Victor Frankenstein was horrified by what he had done, but the Kobali just keep rolling with it.
Except the Kobali don't seem to have a choice in the matter, as they haven't been able to reverse the problem of their people no longer being able to reproduce naturally, and so the only way they've been able to continue repopulating is via their current method.
Of course, they could choose to die out completely as a people, but I find it highly unlikely anyone would willingly choose to allow their entire people to die when they have a working alternative for the time being.
The Federation accepts them on the whole because that's how they are (supposed to be); an open-minded, tolerant, reasonable faction. It's all about the IDIC with them, within reason. Many would probably balk at their dead being used to refill another's population, but given the reasons why such a thing is necessary might soften at least some of their hearts.
The Klingons likely vary between opinions, but as they don't consider the dead corpses to be anything more than empty shells and waste material, they probably don't care what happens to the bodies on the whole, so long as those formerly-dead bodies keep to themselves.
The Romulan Republic is attempting to be more open-minded and civil with its neighbors and allies, but they're really the only ones who might take more offense to their own dead being repurposed in the Kobali way.
So for at least two out of three, it doesn't seem logical why Kobali receive the absolute disgust and hate they do. I, myself, am not the biggest fan of the Kobali, but I don't agree with many of the voices calling for the genocide of an entire people simply out of disgust for their currently only method of survival. It's not like the Borg and their attempt to militantly, aggressively, and single-mindedly destroy entire civilizations just to get more bodies for the ranks, with their intent to do so for the entire galaxy, if not the whole universe.
Frankly, the Borg Cooperative only exists because of the Borg Collective. They salvage drones disconnected from the Collective in order to fill out their numbers. There's some similarities to the Kobali re-using the spent corpses of others and in how they have extremely limited numbers without their sources, but little else is comparative.
Both, however, have good intentions and are only trying to survive without resorting to darker methods. Again, the Kobali could have become militant and started purposefully attacking other worlds to generate dead to cull for their population. That they don't speaks well of them.
All that text aside, I was hoping for something more...worthy of celebrating the five years STO has existed for. Something that might harken back to Star Trek and five year missions, maybe. Like a classically-inspired T6 starship for each of the factions. Not sure the Kobali are *that* interesting to focus the anniversary on.
All that text aside, I was hoping for something more...worthy of celebrating the five years STO has existed for. Something that might harken back to Star Trek and five year missions, maybe. Like a classically-inspired T6 starship for each of the factions. Not sure the Kobali are *that* interesting to focus the anniversary on.
They could be seen just a token representing how far things have come - what they're doing. Which going back and having various other ships really just wouldn't celebrate the here and now. It's an anniversary celebration...not a funeral.
Though, I had really expected splinter Vaadwaur sort of stuff...not Kobali. But that's that.
Can someone please answer me a question...why the Kobali?
Why are the Kobali taking such a MAJOR role in STO, when they only appeared in one episode of Voyager...which was actually pretty awful.
Cyptic reveal a couple of years ago that CBS asked Cryptic to revisit one episode alien races and "monsters" when developing content. I imagine the Kobali are part of the results of that request.
Nah, the Kobali aren't totally averse to picking up a gun if push comes to shove. They may not like it and it may not be their first reaction but even though we have to hold their hands they are not as cowardly as the Deferi.
They remind me of this line: "My hair! He shot my HAIR!"
Evidently, somebody didn't pay attention during the Deferi dailies, and at the Defera adventure zone. :rolleyes:
Anyway, nice blog. I might not like the Kobali as a concept, I do like insights from blogs like this.
A beautiful blog entry! I like how it points out that all that warfare must have had an effect on our crews and captains.
Same here. Over forty years of conflict, intrigue, politicking, and diplomacy from strength should have a telling effect on the Alpha and Beta Quadrants. Too bad that isn't going to be as evident if they keep removing story missions like they are with the Romulan arc.
my science officer intercepted a transmissions from a ship name Samsar the message seem to be a personal log from some one name Henchan Jemamo this person seen to be the captain of this ship the Samsar. In this log Henchan said the his engineer crew is having trouble with the relays systems in aboard there new ship. and his top engineer will not touch our systems which was install on there ship. Henchan also talk about this ship being a war-bird an first of it kind with other ship such as the collector ship which will search the system for dead body's to replace the one they have lost. HMMMMMMMMMMMMM.............................. Captain Kim is returning to Kobal in 3 days to help with there relays systems an to teach the Kobal engineer to maintain the systems them self's. But what really got my attention was the statement about his people was a peaceful race an this war have change the way they think an greet new people an the Henchan said that our hearts seem to be harden an hope that his people heart do not harden. Will Henchan has a point due to the many conflict which we as star fleet has face it has in way harden or hearts but not our spirit.
Comments
Except they didn't ask, as I mentioned while you were posting. They just ordered you around, railroading you into helping the Kobali regardless of how you felt and didn't even let you say anything either way.
Personally, I think they're a bunch of holier-than-thou war criminals, but the Vaadwaur are the greater threat at the present time. Just keep in mind Maxim 29: The enemy of my enemy is my enemy's enemy. No more. No less.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
^^^THIS to the Max! What's the point of having a title when you level up, if said Title gets you no recognition in the game at all. Oh hey mister Fleet Admiral, Im only a captain but here is what you are going to do, oh and you will LOVE doing it!
care to speculate on the Set Power?
How about:
Kobali Necromancer Beam
Upon activation:
to Enemy: - 20 or -2% (whichever is less) alive crew per second
to self: +20 or +2% (whichever is less) alive crew per second
for 15 seconds
It's a themepark MMO...the rides are the same. There are countless things that I wouldn't do that we do, this is no different imho. It's also part of the we're taking orders, regardless of whether we're KDF, Rom, or Fed.
But we don't direct the story...we're not playing any sort of choose your own adventure thing. Nothing that we do matters. It's a themepark MMO. Yay, we saved the princess...so did a thousand folks before and so did a thousand folks after us. If we need the spec points, we might end up saving her a thousand times ourselves.
It's the nature of themepark MMOs. I can't think of a single thing where I would have done it the way it was done in any of the missions. But we're all just along for the ride...
...which is generally one of the reasons I'm not fond of themepark MMOs, but this is never going to be anything but a themepark MMO - so I put that aside, so I can complain about all the other things that bug me.
Er.
http://i.imgur.com/wBsZbO3.jpg
Ability to recycle Tovan Khev into that Kobali BOFF? Pretty please!
The Kobali are more like a race of Frankenstein's monsters than zombies.
Glad I read through the previous posts before I posted. 100% agree here.
I'm not at all a fan of the Kobali. But, seems the governments of the Federation, the Klingon Empire, and the Romulan Republic have all decided that the Kobali are the ones who will be our allies. Frankly, it's us as the player that found out about the whole 'Kobali secret' - the governments likely did not know that, or more likely didn't dig deep enough in their haste to find allies.
Either way, it kinda makes sense that the player doesn't have a choice in helping the Kobali or not. I'm a Fleet Admiral for sure (head-canon that as being the Admiral of my own mini fleet of ships), but not the full-out leader of my faction's fleet. So I'm taking orders from someone, for sure. And my orders, at least for now, are to help the Kobali. I'm not a fan of those orders, but such is life.
T6 Kobali ship? Sounds really neat to me. I'd been wondering when they'll release a Kobali ship - I'd expect next is Vadwaaur. And I'm sure they'll release faction-specific Command-specialization ships. The Winter Event Intel ship was faction non-specific, and that's great - everyone gets a fun, uniquely-styled ship. Then the faction ones are either in the C-Store or your fleet.
It's funny, imho, with all the uproar from some about the Kobali...uh...how do folks feel about the Borg, eh? Even the Borg Cooperative, yeah?
I love the Borg. Because they're zombies. They were scary when they came out- well, maybe because I was so young. That, and there's nothing more horror (which I like) than something you can't reason with.
The Borg Cooperative is like zombies that came back to life. They aren't still doing the "BRAINS" thing (read: assimilation), unlike the Kobali, who are Frankenstein'ing it up perpetually. Even Victor Frankenstein was horrified by what he had done, but the Kobali just keep rolling with it.
The Borg need to be exterminated for the good of everyone in the galaxy, the Iconians included. Liberate who you can, kill when you can't.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Eeeeexactly !
But even if they are Liberated from the Collective and join the Cooperative...do you leave the Cooperative in place with the possibility that a Collective might form or is that too dangerous? Do you instead attempt to return all of the Liberated/Cooperative Borg to their normal states by removing the various implants if possible? And if it is not possible...do you exterminate them?
So should every potentially warlike species be exterminated? And then after we've exterminate them all...do we exterminate ourselves? What if another species might become warlike? Should we just destroy everything?
Have you uh...noticed the various shading taking place with your avatar there? Leaned up against a wall before the paint had dried, eh? :P
We'll cross that bridge when we come to it; I'm only worried about the Collective. Unlike the Borg Collective, you can actually negotiate with the Borg Cooperative and trust them to uphold their end of the bargain, and they don't forcibly assimilate people, either. Ergo at present the Cooperative are not a threat to trillions of lives, so you take the "trust but monitor" approach like you do with any other ally.
My feelings on the Collective are quite clear. Peace with it is not possible short of altering its core programming so that it no longer forcibly assimilates people. As long as it exists with its current programming, it is a threat to trillions of lives, and with the Alliance's current toolset wiping the Collective out altogether is the only option.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
But obviously since the Cooperative exists, then something other than extermination could be done with the Collective, no?
And I still maintain, that in the end...how different is the Federation to the Borg? Think of how many groups have fought against the Federation and Starfleet...fights not much different than those fighting the Collective.
How many times in our planet's history has one group in their arrogance decided what was best for another group?
I'll tell you how the Federation and the Borg are different. It's really simple. The Federation lets you choose to join them. Sure, they do their damnedest to convince you to do it, but the decision is ultimately yours. The Borg Collective just assimilates you whether you like it or not, and is literally incapable of doing otherwise.
That's the same bull**** argument that always gets thrown regarding the Prime Directive. "We can't do anything because we might cause irreparable harm thousands of years from now."
Well I don't hold to that. I believe in making the decision based on the situation as it currently stands, unless you have hard data that the situation will become otherwise. Not "may", will. And this case I believe that there is a greater good to uphold and that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one. Eliminating the Borg Collective as it currently exists saves trillions of lives. End of discussion.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Except the Kobali don't seem to have a choice in the matter, as they haven't been able to reverse the problem of their people no longer being able to reproduce naturally, and so the only way they've been able to continue repopulating is via their current method.
Of course, they could choose to die out completely as a people, but I find it highly unlikely anyone would willingly choose to allow their entire people to die when they have a working alternative for the time being.
The Federation accepts them on the whole because that's how they are (supposed to be); an open-minded, tolerant, reasonable faction. It's all about the IDIC with them, within reason. Many would probably balk at their dead being used to refill another's population, but given the reasons why such a thing is necessary might soften at least some of their hearts.
The Klingons likely vary between opinions, but as they don't consider the dead corpses to be anything more than empty shells and waste material, they probably don't care what happens to the bodies on the whole, so long as those formerly-dead bodies keep to themselves.
The Romulan Republic is attempting to be more open-minded and civil with its neighbors and allies, but they're really the only ones who might take more offense to their own dead being repurposed in the Kobali way.
So for at least two out of three, it doesn't seem logical why Kobali receive the absolute disgust and hate they do. I, myself, am not the biggest fan of the Kobali, but I don't agree with many of the voices calling for the genocide of an entire people simply out of disgust for their currently only method of survival. It's not like the Borg and their attempt to militantly, aggressively, and single-mindedly destroy entire civilizations just to get more bodies for the ranks, with their intent to do so for the entire galaxy, if not the whole universe.
Frankly, the Borg Cooperative only exists because of the Borg Collective. They salvage drones disconnected from the Collective in order to fill out their numbers. There's some similarities to the Kobali re-using the spent corpses of others and in how they have extremely limited numbers without their sources, but little else is comparative.
Both, however, have good intentions and are only trying to survive without resorting to darker methods. Again, the Kobali could have become militant and started purposefully attacking other worlds to generate dead to cull for their population. That they don't speaks well of them.
All that text aside, I was hoping for something more...worthy of celebrating the five years STO has existed for. Something that might harken back to Star Trek and five year missions, maybe. Like a classically-inspired T6 starship for each of the factions. Not sure the Kobali are *that* interesting to focus the anniversary on.
I admit it...I lol'd at that. Not going to share the mental image that went along with it, but it was lolworthy.
They could be seen just a token representing how far things have come - what they're doing. Which going back and having various other ships really just wouldn't celebrate the here and now. It's an anniversary celebration...not a funeral.
Though, I had really expected splinter Vaadwaur sort of stuff...not Kobali. But that's that.
Cyptic reveal a couple of years ago that CBS asked Cryptic to revisit one episode alien races and "monsters" when developing content. I imagine the Kobali are part of the results of that request.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
*sigh* okay... I guess so...
Evidently, somebody didn't pay attention during the Deferi dailies, and at the Defera adventure zone. :rolleyes:
Anyway, nice blog. I might not like the Kobali as a concept, I do like insights from blogs like this.
Same here. Over forty years of conflict, intrigue, politicking, and diplomacy from strength should have a telling effect on the Alpha and Beta Quadrants. Too bad that isn't going to be as evident if they keep removing story missions like they are with the Romulan arc.
Fleet Admiral Aibicil