It may not be what you said, but it's a logical continuation of it. If you force the Kobali to get a signed letter of consent for every individual then they won't reproduce fast enough to avoid extinction.
As gulberat mentioned, I'm quite certain the Ferengi would be happy to sell their bodies to the Kobali. For Pete's sake, their funeral consists of selling off canisters of their own desiccated remains. The Kobali could even market it as a way to cheat death, which if Tolian Soran is any indication is still something people want to do in Star Trek.
Meanwhile there's cloning, and we can have the Federation genetics community look into a cure so they can reproduce normally again (the storyline says the Kobali used to reproduce sexually just like every other humanoid, but ****ed themselves with too much genetic engineering experimentation because they've apparently never heard of clinical trials).
Anyways... the Vaadwaur want to conquer the universe. As has been pointed out many times they do so because they feel it is their right. Not because they "need" to.
And no the Vaadwaur ARE dishonest about being aggressive. The first time you see them in person they lie about wanting a diplomatic negotiation and try to kill everyone at the negotiations.
That was Gaul, not the entire species. Do you likewise hold the Westboro Baptist Church up as typical of every Christian worldwide?
And he did want to negotiate, he just didn't want the same result you wanted.
Then they lie about why they're attacking the Kobali. You know their statement about how they want their people back is a lie since they refuse to take their people back when the Kobali offer to give them back.
Yeah, Gaul was an @sshole that way. In case you haven't noticed, he's dead, and their new leader Eldex owes the Alliance a pretty big favor.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
I have to say, I think the Kobali - or, at least, their current leadership... and Jhet'leya - are getting creepier by the minute, and it's nothing to do with their biology.
It's everything to do with them being deceitful, and psychologically manipulative, in a positively abusive manner.
Because I can't help noticing that, whenever the Kobali explain their motives, and beg our forgiveness for the massive deceptions they were so desperately sad about playing on us (it was because they were weak and fearful! They did not understand how truly noble we are! Surely such wonderful people as us will forgive them their failings?), the right and proper and honourable course to follow just happens to give the Kobali absolutely everything they want.
So, Starfleet and Klingon and Romulan troops die in the trenches to protect the Kobali from the consequences of their own actions, and, in the latest episode, Jhet'leya nobly and selflessly allows us to endanger our lives on her behalf, and then (just as nobly and selflessly) happens to wind up with exactly the boyfriend she always wanted.
It's just peachy to be a Kobali, isn't it? Must be nice, always being right like that. Wish I could manage it.
Now, you might say Starfleet has some moral responsibility because it was Voyager that woke up the Vaadwaur... but, y'know what I think? The Vaadwaur were there, if it hadn't been Voyager, sooner or later it would have been someone else. And when, exactly, did Starfleet become responsible for the Kobali looking at a Vaadwaur stasis facility and saying to themselves, "Hey! Breeding programme! Awright!"?
Gaul was a madman and the bluegills were a massive danger... but the Vaadwaur, themselves, are at least honest barbarians. There is at least a reasonable chance of negotiating with the new Vaadwaur leadership in good faith.
The Kobali leadership, on the other hand, wouldn't know good faith if it jumped up and bit them.
It is this Fleet Admiral's opinion that the Kobali have proven, time and time again, that they cannot be trusted. Negotiations should be opened with the Vaadwaur, with a view towards an armistice between them and the Alpha Quadrant powers. It's in our interests, because the Vaadwaur are bound to be a useful source of intelligence about the bluegills, and hence the Iconians. (And they are motivated to join us in going after the Iconians.)
The Kobali? At the very least, make them surrender the temple complex and its stasis pods. And the next time they lie to us - cut 'em loose. For good. Because they lie like rugs, and all they've got to offer us... is the chance to die nobly on behalf of the Kobali.
I have to say, I think the Kobali - or, at least, their current leadership... and Jhet'leya - are getting creepier by the minute, and it's nothing to do with their biology.
It's everything to do with them being deceitful, and psychologically manipulative, in a positively abusive manner.
Because I can't help noticing that, whenever the Kobali explain their motives, and beg our forgiveness for the massive deceptions they were so desperately sad about playing on us (it was because they were weak and fearful! They did not understand how truly noble we are! Surely such wonderful people as us will forgive them their failings?), the right and proper and honourable course to follow just happens to give the Kobali absolutely everything they want.
So, Starfleet and Klingon and Romulan troops die in the trenches to protect the Kobali from the consequences of their own actions, and, in the latest episode, Jhet'leya nobly and selflessly allows us to endanger our lives on her behalf, and then (just as nobly and selflessly) happens to wind up with exactly the boyfriend she always wanted.
It's just peachy to be a Kobali, isn't it? Must be nice, always being right like that. Wish I could manage it.
Now, you might say Starfleet has some moral responsibility because it was Voyager that woke up the Vaadwaur... but, y'know what I think? The Vaadwaur were there, if it hadn't been Voyager, sooner or later it would have been someone else. And when, exactly, did Starfleet become responsible for the Kobali looking at a Vaadwaur stasis facility and saying to themselves, "Hey! Breeding programme! Awright!"?
Gaul was a madman and the bluegills were a massive danger... but the Vaadwaur, themselves, are at least honest barbarians. There is at least a reasonable chance of negotiating with the new Vaadwaur leadership in good faith.
The Kobali leadership, on the other hand, wouldn't know good faith if it jumped up and bit them.
It is this Fleet Admiral's opinion that the Kobali have proven, time and time again, that they cannot be trusted. Negotiations should be opened with the Vaadwaur, with a view towards an armistice between them and the Alpha Quadrant powers. It's in our interests, because the Vaadwaur are bound to be a useful source of intelligence about the bluegills, and hence the Iconians. (And they are motivated to join us in going after the Iconians.)
The Kobali? At the very least, make them surrender the temple complex and its stasis pods. And the next time they lie to us - cut 'em loose. For good. Because they lie like rugs, and all they've got to offer us... is the chance to die nobly on behalf of the Kobali.
This, in a nutshell, is exactly why I hate those hypocritical losers, and why D'trel's going to be summarily executing Q'Nel for crimes against sentient life in my next story.
After playing Dust to Dust I am thinking of making a continuation called Ashes to Ashes where I destroy Kobali Kim and the rest of the Kobali for there war crimes against sentient beings everywhere
NO TO ARC
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Pretty much fully agreeing with shevet here. It's not the body reclamation (A living reincarnation, even with hazy memories, isn't the worst deal) that's problematic as much as the Kobali lying all the time.
The Kobali, even if a bit creepy, could certainly show their rebirth process as a beneficial one to the rest of the Quadrant, and I'm sure there would be some takers. But it isn't the way they operate. I did like the description in more detail of the progression mentioned to Keten during this episode. It made the process less bothersome than some of the descriptions when I was in the trenches. That was good.
But how the Kobali have been going about it has been more of a problem.
Stopping the Vaadwaur was certainly for the good of everyone in the Quadrant, and Starfleet felt a certain amount of added responsibility to the situation. Being the Iconians' latest puppets certainly didn't help. That certainly explains how we ended up on Kobali Prime in the first place.
Why we're still there is becoming more and more of a question. The Kobali leadership has failed to behave in good faith over and over again. (On a side note, the way Prime Directive was claimed by our Intel contact on Kobali Prime, at least on the Rom-Fed side, makes me think Kim didn't do a good job on his first report explaining which bodies were being used that was the problem.). And the lies just seem to get worse and worse.
I really hope the ever-increasing scrutiny the Beta and Delta components of the Alliance are giving Kobali Prime will get them to shape up their act. The temple's stasis pod inhabitants certainly need to be returned now that a ceasefire has been called, however.
And ending on a side note - I really liked the consoles showing the collapse of Vaadwaur culture to its current state. I've mentioned it before, but it was good. Though it doesn't sound like they were great shakes before, their leadership's crippling of their culture and people means moving to a peaceful setting will be a long and painful process, unfortunately, and I hope the Alliance will get the opportunity to help.
It is still an open question how much Eldex will be different than his predecessor, and I'm hoping there will be followup of that plot line from the episode. I could see him with open eyes, with nothing but teenage tales full of the old bravdo and grandeur their race has followed from, taking his people into the deal with the devil Gaul tricked his people into.
I hope he won't, and I hope we give his shattered people some attention, but I could see it.
Fate - protects fools, small children, and ships named Enterprise Will Riker
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My forum single-issue of rage: Make the Proton Experimental Weapon go for subsystem targetting!
Comments
Meanwhile there's cloning, and we can have the Federation genetics community look into a cure so they can reproduce normally again (the storyline says the Kobali used to reproduce sexually just like every other humanoid, but ****ed themselves with too much genetic engineering experimentation because they've apparently never heard of clinical trials).
And the Klingons don't?
That was Gaul, not the entire species. Do you likewise hold the Westboro Baptist Church up as typical of every Christian worldwide?
And he did want to negotiate, he just didn't want the same result you wanted.
Yeah, Gaul was an @sshole that way. In case you haven't noticed, he's dead, and their new leader Eldex owes the Alliance a pretty big favor.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
It's everything to do with them being deceitful, and psychologically manipulative, in a positively abusive manner.
Because I can't help noticing that, whenever the Kobali explain their motives, and beg our forgiveness for the massive deceptions they were so desperately sad about playing on us (it was because they were weak and fearful! They did not understand how truly noble we are! Surely such wonderful people as us will forgive them their failings?), the right and proper and honourable course to follow just happens to give the Kobali absolutely everything they want.
So, Starfleet and Klingon and Romulan troops die in the trenches to protect the Kobali from the consequences of their own actions, and, in the latest episode, Jhet'leya nobly and selflessly allows us to endanger our lives on her behalf, and then (just as nobly and selflessly) happens to wind up with exactly the boyfriend she always wanted.
It's just peachy to be a Kobali, isn't it? Must be nice, always being right like that. Wish I could manage it.
Now, you might say Starfleet has some moral responsibility because it was Voyager that woke up the Vaadwaur... but, y'know what I think? The Vaadwaur were there, if it hadn't been Voyager, sooner or later it would have been someone else. And when, exactly, did Starfleet become responsible for the Kobali looking at a Vaadwaur stasis facility and saying to themselves, "Hey! Breeding programme! Awright!"?
Gaul was a madman and the bluegills were a massive danger... but the Vaadwaur, themselves, are at least honest barbarians. There is at least a reasonable chance of negotiating with the new Vaadwaur leadership in good faith.
The Kobali leadership, on the other hand, wouldn't know good faith if it jumped up and bit them.
It is this Fleet Admiral's opinion that the Kobali have proven, time and time again, that they cannot be trusted. Negotiations should be opened with the Vaadwaur, with a view towards an armistice between them and the Alpha Quadrant powers. It's in our interests, because the Vaadwaur are bound to be a useful source of intelligence about the bluegills, and hence the Iconians. (And they are motivated to join us in going after the Iconians.)
The Kobali? At the very least, make them surrender the temple complex and its stasis pods. And the next time they lie to us - cut 'em loose. For good. Because they lie like rugs, and all they've got to offer us... is the chance to die nobly on behalf of the Kobali.
This, in a nutshell, is exactly why I hate those hypocritical losers, and why D'trel's going to be summarily executing Q'Nel for crimes against sentient life in my next story.
Maybe into something more interesting than ... this.
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The Kobali, even if a bit creepy, could certainly show their rebirth process as a beneficial one to the rest of the Quadrant, and I'm sure there would be some takers. But it isn't the way they operate. I did like the description in more detail of the progression mentioned to Keten during this episode. It made the process less bothersome than some of the descriptions when I was in the trenches. That was good.
But how the Kobali have been going about it has been more of a problem.
Stopping the Vaadwaur was certainly for the good of everyone in the Quadrant, and Starfleet felt a certain amount of added responsibility to the situation. Being the Iconians' latest puppets certainly didn't help. That certainly explains how we ended up on Kobali Prime in the first place.
Why we're still there is becoming more and more of a question. The Kobali leadership has failed to behave in good faith over and over again. (On a side note, the way Prime Directive was claimed by our Intel contact on Kobali Prime, at least on the Rom-Fed side, makes me think Kim didn't do a good job on his first report explaining which bodies were being used that was the problem.). And the lies just seem to get worse and worse.
I really hope the ever-increasing scrutiny the Beta and Delta components of the Alliance are giving Kobali Prime will get them to shape up their act. The temple's stasis pod inhabitants certainly need to be returned now that a ceasefire has been called, however.
And ending on a side note - I really liked the consoles showing the collapse of Vaadwaur culture to its current state. I've mentioned it before, but it was good. Though it doesn't sound like they were great shakes before, their leadership's crippling of their culture and people means moving to a peaceful setting will be a long and painful process, unfortunately, and I hope the Alliance will get the opportunity to help.
It is still an open question how much Eldex will be different than his predecessor, and I'm hoping there will be followup of that plot line from the episode. I could see him with open eyes, with nothing but teenage tales full of the old bravdo and grandeur their race has followed from, taking his people into the deal with the devil Gaul tricked his people into.
I hope he won't, and I hope we give his shattered people some attention, but I could see it.
Member Access Denied Armada!
My forum single-issue of rage: Make the Proton Experimental Weapon go for subsystem targetting!