In every game there are whales that have not enough brains and too much to spend, however, until the STFs are full all the time like they were prior to the DR nerfs I wouldn't put too much into what's happening economically really. Some games have the ability to survive off of 300k players after they lost 600k players all at once, doesn't mean they are considered a success.
Before they squashed the fun out of them, I played an STF nearly every time I logged in, regardless of what was going on (winter event, summer event, etc).
Not everyone looks at the game like it's a career, or a race, or building an empire. Some people just want to have fun with their free time. New STFs = no fun = don't play. New crafting system = too complicated = no fun = don't use. DR missions = limited fun = limited play.
I still find portions of the game entertaining enough to log in, but I play WAY less than I used to, and what I do play doesn't compel me to buy new ships.
In my own little demographic, Cryptic is really missing their mark with these changes.
I did that to. Or whenever I had a new ship, or gear/setup and wanted to try that out.
Having learned some things from my first, and still main, toon, I for one am largely leveling two others - Thuban Vazlav, a Tellarite who just hit level 52 after completing the "Badlands" mission (the beginning of the Cardassian arc), and James R. Church, a level-36 Captain who just finished Hobus.
Vazlav for one is probably going to be at 60 and working on amassing Specialization points before he ever enters Delta Quadrant. I'll only have to worry about "grinding to level" if the cap suddenly pops up to 70 or something.
Am I the only one with alts?
No you're not. But most veterans had lvl 50 with all the stories completed when DR hit.
That's a HUGE difference. You are looking at a ton of XP we can't have anymore.
For example, I have 5 characters, and all of them had completed the story missions, including the revamped ones, and were 50 when DR hit.
There has been a lot of ballyhoo on the forums about the game being wrecked, and people abandoning it, but I don't think there is good evidence that this is true.
The metric I use is a public metric, and I think a compelling one- the price of cash shop items in in-game currency.
Specifically, the price of keys and other c-store only items in ec, and the price of dil in zen.
I had the unpleasant experience of playing a game called archeage at its launch recently, and like STO, it had a cash shop which was the only source of many useful items.
The game crashed and burned, and the prices of these items went up and up on the game's auction house. Prices have nearly tripled at this point vs what they were when people still liked the game.
This is because people stopped spending money.
The only truly limited resources in STO are the c-store items and zen, since they cannot be earned in game, only bought for real money.
If people on the whole spend less money on the game, then the supply of these items will go down, and over time, their price in game will go up, since in game resources like dil and ec can be generated infinitely.
This isn't happening in STO though. Lockbox keys are, if anything, going down in price, and the dil value of zen is quite stable, in spite of the huge dil sink of upgrading items being introduced.
If people started spending significantly less money on STO, you would see the ec prices of keys, fleet ship modules, ship upgrade tokens and R&D packs go up and up, as well as the dil/zen rate.
None of this is happening, there isn't any indication people are spending less on the game.
Or simply the more realistic and pragmatic indicator already reflected in the drop in players across the board, and death of PvP.
Things are cheaper because the market has crashed... because people aren't playing and buying ... and sellers are becoming desperate... I know I have not sold anything substantial in over 6 months.
As for the Dilithium question? You have heard of controlled markets, right? No way in hell Cryptic is ever going to not let it work in their favor. Its like a slot machine principle of pay-outs. Rigged. There is a bottom line the system will never cross.
Discussions about the game doing well are as meaningless as discussions about the game dying.
Do you know why? Nobody posting on the forum can prove their argument either way without numbers. It's pointless to post about it.
And after three pages of useless speculation based on half-understood economic theories that may or may not apply, someone finally gets it.
The game is up until they pull the plug. That may be next week, it may be next year, it may be sometime in the late 22nd Century as the real starship Enterprise is preparing to launch. We'll find out when it happens. In the meantime, as I say so often, never borrow trouble from the future - the interest rate sucks.
You obviously haven't done the numbers on people that actually work to put food on the table vs game time. Come back when you do.
The game time-sinks are not even remotely related to zen or dil though. I have a full time job, so I am not blowing smoke ... a few min in the morning and I have all my toons set up killing fed freighters and beating contraband out of their crews etc. Also set up 3 toons turning in contra so when I get home I have 6k dil waiting for me. Repeat when I get home, and after dinner I will have 6 dil. Repeat at bedtime, and I will have 6k when I wake up the next day. Repeat.
The above takes me like 30 min total -- 10 min for each session. I still have time to actually play the game for a couple of hours each night as well.
I have 4 t6 ships now, since DR --- two bought from the store using ONLY dil to zen. The first was paid for by doing the MU event daily (that was a serious chore daily, and may not be possible for a working adult to run as many alts as I did, but an adult should be able to do 2-3 alts on such events anyway). The second was paid for by running all the alts thru the dela rep to get the dil bonus. The third was an EC purchase (benthan) earned over many weeks. The last was the free carrier.
I have upgraded one set of weapons that I share across characters. Most of my other gear is not upgraded -- a few pieces on my best, most played char, but no one is all XIV or even close to it.
None of the above seriously dented my play-time or cramped my ability to work and spend time with my family.
Where the time sink is killer is spec points and even just leveling to 60. I have 3 at 60 now, and those 3 have a few post-60 spec points, but not many. I basically unlocked rock and roll on those 3 and not much more. The slow gain of spec points and levels dwarfs any other time sink by huge margins. But that is fine... I can get those by playing the game, though slowly. I won't grind them repeating stuff.... it happens as it happens for me.
You're assuming lockbox key prices are going down because there's too high of a supply (i.e., people are spending too much RL money). Could be that's true. Could also simply mean lockbox ships have lost some of their appeal, as the only available T6 lockbox ships are the Benthan and Hazari one, and peeps are simply less interested in the old T5 ones now. Aka, less demand.
This ^^^^
I have a JHDC and when i do fly it its not as good as it was before DR even though its a T5-U fully leveled with top notch gear.
The T5-Us are woefully underpowered and underperforming why would people want to buy a ship that lacks in all aspects when they can simple buy a c-store t-6?
If your choice is to buy Zen or eat, then you're going to forgo everything in the C-store until/unless you get enough dil to buy Zen. Everything you play is going to be free.
I used to face that choice. That was when I started playing STO, because it was free. Some folks claimed I couldn't get through the game without shelling out cash, so even when the wallet loosened, I kept playing free to prove a point.
Now I'm just waiting until there's something sufficiently impressive to make me pay. (T6 isn't necessary to play the new content, and my only Delta Quadrant toon has a free T5U ship to run it with...)
Oh yeah, well I used to spend 3.1 million yen per femtosecond out of four different TRIBBLE bank accounts linked to the Japanese stock exchange, now I'm not spending anything because Delta Rising killed all my puppies and Captain Geko personally came to my house and pissed in my keyboard! So clearly, judging from that, the game is DOOOMED!
DOOM I say, DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED!
Why is it Doom to share experiences? Negative feedback on a forum should be expected, and welcome. Customer feedback is necessary to refine a product and make it more appealing.
Don't you give positive and negative feedback any time you participate in a survey?
Just because posters are saying they don't play or spend the way they once did (and why) doesn't mean they feel the game is doomed. It's merely a data point.
Obviously, people still like the game and still play.
This. Dil has been remarkably stable at around the 160 mark since about Apr 14 if memory serves - following a long period hovering about 125-130. I think that was mainly due to fleets "completing" at T5 and the ammount being bought for Fleet projects tailing off.
There was a brief spike up to around 190 when DR first went live - I suspect a lot of people cashing in to buy new ships and outfits - but that was very short-lived.
I think this is a good description of the zen/dilithium market.
Without the upgrade sink I think there's no doubt the rate would be over 200. It's been creeping down the past couple weeks. I don't really have a very good feel for how low it will go. I would say though that a new fleet project might let is see the 130's again.
As far as the lockboxes go, I think there is very low demand right now. I'm saving the keys I got in the last sale until the next box comes out.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
If your choice is to buy Zen or eat, then you're going to forgo everything in the C-store until/unless you get enough dil to buy Zen. Everything you play is going to be free.
I used to face that choice. That was when I started playing STO, because it was free. Some folks claimed I couldn't get through the game without shelling out cash, so even when the wallet loosened, I kept playing free to prove a point.
Now I'm just waiting until there's something sufficiently impressive to make me pay. (T6 isn't necessary to play the new content, and my only Delta Quadrant toon has a free T5U ship to run it with...)
Theres a flaw with that jonsills i know people ingame that didnt buy food so they could get more zen...true story man no lie.
there are people that would rather get zen then food and these people are actually adults who i know?...i know them IRL a couple live in the same town i live in.
I have a JHDC and when i do fly it its not as good as it was before DR even though its a T5-U fully leveled with top notch gear.
The T5-Us are woefully underpowered and underperforming why would people want to buy a ship that lacks in all aspects when they can simple buy a c-store t-6?
2/3 of the factions have almost no t6 cstore ships. Kdf and rom both got one high dps ship and one oddball low dps "cruiser wannabe" choice. Science was left out entirely -- the only t6 is the breen carrier, and barring that, a box ship. And in my experience, the box ship is as good as the carrier depending on personal tastes -- its hot to have an OSS boosted GW etc but the carrier's officer seating is extremely difficult to work with. All in all, I like my TSBC far better.
Theres a flaw with that jonsills i know people ingame that didnt buy food so they could get more zen...true story man no lie.
there are people that would rather get zen then food and these people are actually adults who i know?...i know them IRL a couple live in the same town i live in.
If true, I'd say they definitely cross a line. It's very sad and I hope they can get some psychiatric help.
...or a burglar breaks in and steals their computer. That would work, too.
There has been a lot of ballyhoo on the forums about the game being wrecked, and people abandoning it, but I don't think there is good evidence that this is true.
The metric I use is a public metric, and I think a compelling one- the price of cash shop items in in-game currency.
Specifically, the price of keys and other c-store only items in ec, and the price of dil in zen.
I had the unpleasant experience of playing a game called archeage at its launch recently, and like STO, it had a cash shop which was the only source of many useful items.
The game crashed and burned, and the prices of these items went up and up on the game's auction house. Prices have nearly tripled at this point vs what they were when people still liked the game.
This is because people stopped spending money.
The only truly limited resources in STO are the c-store items and zen, since they cannot be earned in game, only bought for real money.
If people on the whole spend less money on the game, then the supply of these items will go down, and over time, their price in game will go up, since in game resources like dil and ec can be generated infinitely.
This isn't happening in STO though. Lockbox keys are, if anything, going down in price, and the dil value of zen is quite stable, in spite of the huge dil sink of upgrading items being introduced.
If people started spending significantly less money on STO, you would see the ec prices of keys, fleet ship modules, ship upgrade tokens and R&D packs go up and up, as well as the dil/zen rate.
None of this is happening, there isn't any indication people are spending less on the game.
Good analysis of the financial state of the game by taking any public available info into account. STO is far from being wrecked, but that does say nothing about the fun of their players.
I'll be honest...I haven't and don't have any plans to spend another penny on the game. And I have spent way too much on it over my time playing it. Something just changed and I don't feel the desperate to get things to improve what there is to do anymore.
...You can earn them in game...saying otherwise is a boldface lie. You can earn almost anything in game by selling dilithium for zen.
Heh, after you endlessly grinded months to, buy & upgrade it. And until then, smart as their metric$ are, Cryptic throws out new OP stuff and you end up being out-dps-ed, all this game is now about.
Pay to win my right eye. You can still build a ship for little to nothing and compete. The new T-6 carrier is a pain in the argula. You all need to quite your crying. Would anyone pay for nothing no. So of course it is an advantage such as life. Get over it. I often wonder what you people do in real life. Do you complain when the neighbor gets a new car? Pvp has more things one must learn and your to lazy to figure the new stuff out so you rage quit. That is why the ques are dead. Truth hurts I know but someone had to tell you.
Comments
Uh, there is no doubt about it, STO is 100% P2W.
Completed Starbase, Embassy, Mine, Spire and No Win Scenario
Nothing to do anymore.
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No you're not. But most veterans had lvl 50 with all the stories completed when DR hit.
That's a HUGE difference. You are looking at a ton of XP we can't have anymore.
For example, I have 5 characters, and all of them had completed the story missions, including the revamped ones, and were 50 when DR hit.
Sure...if you're lazy and impatient.
If not you can earn just about anything good in game other than a Red Matter Capacitor.
Or simply the more realistic and pragmatic indicator already reflected in the drop in players across the board, and death of PvP.
Things are cheaper because the market has crashed... because people aren't playing and buying ... and sellers are becoming desperate... I know I have not sold anything substantial in over 6 months.
As for the Dilithium question? You have heard of controlled markets, right? No way in hell Cryptic is ever going to not let it work in their favor. Its like a slot machine principle of pay-outs. Rigged. There is a bottom line the system will never cross.
It's Dew and Cheetos dust or get out.
Do you know why? Nobody posting on the forum can prove their argument either way without numbers. It's pointless to post about it.
Free Tibet!
And?
Still is impatient...can still earn almost anything in game for free if you take the time to earn it.
The game is up until they pull the plug. That may be next week, it may be next year, it may be sometime in the late 22nd Century as the real starship Enterprise is preparing to launch. We'll find out when it happens. In the meantime, as I say so often, never borrow trouble from the future - the interest rate sucks.
You obviously haven't done the numbers on people that actually work to put food on the table vs game time. Come back when you do.
The game time-sinks are not even remotely related to zen or dil though. I have a full time job, so I am not blowing smoke ... a few min in the morning and I have all my toons set up killing fed freighters and beating contraband out of their crews etc. Also set up 3 toons turning in contra so when I get home I have 6k dil waiting for me. Repeat when I get home, and after dinner I will have 6 dil. Repeat at bedtime, and I will have 6k when I wake up the next day. Repeat.
The above takes me like 30 min total -- 10 min for each session. I still have time to actually play the game for a couple of hours each night as well.
I have 4 t6 ships now, since DR --- two bought from the store using ONLY dil to zen. The first was paid for by doing the MU event daily (that was a serious chore daily, and may not be possible for a working adult to run as many alts as I did, but an adult should be able to do 2-3 alts on such events anyway). The second was paid for by running all the alts thru the dela rep to get the dil bonus. The third was an EC purchase (benthan) earned over many weeks. The last was the free carrier.
I have upgraded one set of weapons that I share across characters. Most of my other gear is not upgraded -- a few pieces on my best, most played char, but no one is all XIV or even close to it.
None of the above seriously dented my play-time or cramped my ability to work and spend time with my family.
Where the time sink is killer is spec points and even just leveling to 60. I have 3 at 60 now, and those 3 have a few post-60 spec points, but not many. I basically unlocked rock and roll on those 3 and not much more. The slow gain of spec points and levels dwarfs any other time sink by huge margins. But that is fine... I can get those by playing the game, though slowly. I won't grind them repeating stuff.... it happens as it happens for me.
This ^^^^
I have a JHDC and when i do fly it its not as good as it was before DR even though its a T5-U fully leveled with top notch gear.
The T5-Us are woefully underpowered and underperforming why would people want to buy a ship that lacks in all aspects when they can simple buy a c-store t-6?
I used to face that choice. That was when I started playing STO, because it was free. Some folks claimed I couldn't get through the game without shelling out cash, so even when the wallet loosened, I kept playing free to prove a point.
Now I'm just waiting until there's something sufficiently impressive to make me pay. (T6 isn't necessary to play the new content, and my only Delta Quadrant toon has a free T5U ship to run it with...)
Why is it Doom to share experiences? Negative feedback on a forum should be expected, and welcome. Customer feedback is necessary to refine a product and make it more appealing.
Don't you give positive and negative feedback any time you participate in a survey?
Just because posters are saying they don't play or spend the way they once did (and why) doesn't mean they feel the game is doomed. It's merely a data point.
Obviously, people still like the game and still play.
I think this is a good description of the zen/dilithium market.
Without the upgrade sink I think there's no doubt the rate would be over 200. It's been creeping down the past couple weeks. I don't really have a very good feel for how low it will go. I would say though that a new fleet project might let is see the 130's again.
As far as the lockboxes go, I think there is very low demand right now. I'm saving the keys I got in the last sale until the next box comes out.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Theres a flaw with that jonsills i know people ingame that didnt buy food so they could get more zen...true story man no lie.
there are people that would rather get zen then food and these people are actually adults who i know?...i know them IRL a couple live in the same town i live in.
2/3 of the factions have almost no t6 cstore ships. Kdf and rom both got one high dps ship and one oddball low dps "cruiser wannabe" choice. Science was left out entirely -- the only t6 is the breen carrier, and barring that, a box ship. And in my experience, the box ship is as good as the carrier depending on personal tastes -- its hot to have an OSS boosted GW etc but the carrier's officer seating is extremely difficult to work with. All in all, I like my TSBC far better.
If true, I'd say they definitely cross a line. It's very sad and I hope they can get some psychiatric help.
...or a burglar breaks in and steals their computer. That would work, too.
Im not lying man i know them and i was as shocked as anyone when i found out hpow can anyone put ingame stuff before a basic need such as food.
A few people in this thread might need to look up what P2W actually means, instead of what it stanads for.
Completed Starbase, Embassy, Mine, Spire and No Win Scenario
Nothing to do anymore.
http://dtfleet.com/
Visit our Youtube channel
Good analysis of the financial state of the game by taking any public available info into account. STO is far from being wrecked, but that does say nothing about the fun of their players.
Holy Grail of Gamification is Addiction | 5 Ways to Accomplisch | and the Psychology of Freemium
Ah, someone from the mirror universe, nice.
Heh, after you endlessly grinded months to, buy & upgrade it. And until then, smart as their metric$ are, Cryptic throws out new OP stuff and you end up being out-dps-ed, all this game is now about.
LOL, because P2W killed PvP and made competition a no go.
Before P2W i was PvP'ing every day ;P
Holy Grail of Gamification is Addiction | 5 Ways to Accomplisch | and the Psychology of Freemium