If your choice is to buy Zen or eat, then you're going to forgo everything in the C-store until/unless you get enough dil to buy Zen. Everything you play is going to be free.
I used to face that choice. That was when I started playing STO, because it was free. Some folks claimed I couldn't get through the game without shelling out cash, so even when the wallet loosened, I kept playing free to prove a point.
Now I'm just waiting until there's something sufficiently impressive to make me pay. (T6 isn't necessary to play the new content, and my only Delta Quadrant toon has a free T5U ship to run it with...)
Oh yeah, well I used to spend 3.1 million yen per femtosecond out of four different TRIBBLE bank accounts linked to the Japanese stock exchange, now I'm not spending anything because Delta Rising killed all my puppies and Captain Geko personally came to my house and pissed in my keyboard! So clearly, judging from that, the game is DOOOMED!
DOOM I say, DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED!
Why is it Doom to share experiences? Negative feedback on a forum should be expected, and welcome. Customer feedback is necessary to refine a product and make it more appealing.
Don't you give positive and negative feedback any time you participate in a survey?
Just because posters are saying they don't play or spend the way they once did (and why) doesn't mean they feel the game is doomed. It's merely a data point.
Obviously, people still like the game and still play.
This. Dil has been remarkably stable at around the 160 mark since about Apr 14 if memory serves - following a long period hovering about 125-130. I think that was mainly due to fleets "completing" at T5 and the ammount being bought for Fleet projects tailing off.
There was a brief spike up to around 190 when DR first went live - I suspect a lot of people cashing in to buy new ships and outfits - but that was very short-lived.
I think this is a good description of the zen/dilithium market.
Without the upgrade sink I think there's no doubt the rate would be over 200. It's been creeping down the past couple weeks. I don't really have a very good feel for how low it will go. I would say though that a new fleet project might let is see the 130's again.
As far as the lockboxes go, I think there is very low demand right now. I'm saving the keys I got in the last sale until the next box comes out.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
If your choice is to buy Zen or eat, then you're going to forgo everything in the C-store until/unless you get enough dil to buy Zen. Everything you play is going to be free.
I used to face that choice. That was when I started playing STO, because it was free. Some folks claimed I couldn't get through the game without shelling out cash, so even when the wallet loosened, I kept playing free to prove a point.
Now I'm just waiting until there's something sufficiently impressive to make me pay. (T6 isn't necessary to play the new content, and my only Delta Quadrant toon has a free T5U ship to run it with...)
Theres a flaw with that jonsills i know people ingame that didnt buy food so they could get more zen...true story man no lie.
there are people that would rather get zen then food and these people are actually adults who i know?...i know them IRL a couple live in the same town i live in.
I have a JHDC and when i do fly it its not as good as it was before DR even though its a T5-U fully leveled with top notch gear.
The T5-Us are woefully underpowered and underperforming why would people want to buy a ship that lacks in all aspects when they can simple buy a c-store t-6?
2/3 of the factions have almost no t6 cstore ships. Kdf and rom both got one high dps ship and one oddball low dps "cruiser wannabe" choice. Science was left out entirely -- the only t6 is the breen carrier, and barring that, a box ship. And in my experience, the box ship is as good as the carrier depending on personal tastes -- its hot to have an OSS boosted GW etc but the carrier's officer seating is extremely difficult to work with. All in all, I like my TSBC far better.
Theres a flaw with that jonsills i know people ingame that didnt buy food so they could get more zen...true story man no lie.
there are people that would rather get zen then food and these people are actually adults who i know?...i know them IRL a couple live in the same town i live in.
If true, I'd say they definitely cross a line. It's very sad and I hope they can get some psychiatric help.
...or a burglar breaks in and steals their computer. That would work, too.
There has been a lot of ballyhoo on the forums about the game being wrecked, and people abandoning it, but I don't think there is good evidence that this is true.
The metric I use is a public metric, and I think a compelling one- the price of cash shop items in in-game currency.
Specifically, the price of keys and other c-store only items in ec, and the price of dil in zen.
I had the unpleasant experience of playing a game called archeage at its launch recently, and like STO, it had a cash shop which was the only source of many useful items.
The game crashed and burned, and the prices of these items went up and up on the game's auction house. Prices have nearly tripled at this point vs what they were when people still liked the game.
This is because people stopped spending money.
The only truly limited resources in STO are the c-store items and zen, since they cannot be earned in game, only bought for real money.
If people on the whole spend less money on the game, then the supply of these items will go down, and over time, their price in game will go up, since in game resources like dil and ec can be generated infinitely.
This isn't happening in STO though. Lockbox keys are, if anything, going down in price, and the dil value of zen is quite stable, in spite of the huge dil sink of upgrading items being introduced.
If people started spending significantly less money on STO, you would see the ec prices of keys, fleet ship modules, ship upgrade tokens and R&D packs go up and up, as well as the dil/zen rate.
None of this is happening, there isn't any indication people are spending less on the game.
Good analysis of the financial state of the game by taking any public available info into account. STO is far from being wrecked, but that does say nothing about the fun of their players.
I'll be honest...I haven't and don't have any plans to spend another penny on the game. And I have spent way too much on it over my time playing it. Something just changed and I don't feel the desperate to get things to improve what there is to do anymore.
...You can earn them in game...saying otherwise is a boldface lie. You can earn almost anything in game by selling dilithium for zen.
Heh, after you endlessly grinded months to, buy & upgrade it. And until then, smart as their metric$ are, Cryptic throws out new OP stuff and you end up being out-dps-ed, all this game is now about.
Pay to win my right eye. You can still build a ship for little to nothing and compete. The new T-6 carrier is a pain in the argula. You all need to quite your crying. Would anyone pay for nothing no. So of course it is an advantage such as life. Get over it. I often wonder what you people do in real life. Do you complain when the neighbor gets a new car? Pvp has more things one must learn and your to lazy to figure the new stuff out so you rage quit. That is why the ques are dead. Truth hurts I know but someone had to tell you.
OP is assuming that Cryptic don't control the market no matter what they say they would be fools not to make sure there's enough dilithium in circulation, if dilithium is worth too much then they lose zen sales, if dilithium is not worth enough then players don't buy zen with it until it's worth more which means zen sellers see the value of their RL purchase drop. My guess is Cryptic keep it around 120-170 as ideal, with the occasional player driven spike when there's a sudden demand.
Key prices falling, this is probably because for a long time there are a few hundred key traders that have stock piled thousands and thousands of keys, now they have realised that the players are struggling to gain and keep EC so they are cutting their losses and selling at lower rates undercutting each other all the time.
In fact your opinion that there is no indication that people are spending less is deeply flawed, STO has been around a long time and those traders that enjoy playing the exchange, those companies that play the exchange to sell on their websites have massive reserves of stuff they can't shift, so what you see is them undercutting the market to get back something before it's too late.
Supporting evidence:
Massive costs of upgrades in both dil and EC - less EC in circulation which therefore directly counters your argument.
Massive EC loot nerfs - Same reasoning as above.
The fact that many whales such as myself have publicly stated they are no longer spending on the game.
The fact that since DR more players have left than ever before and the only reason it's still going is the die hards and noobs still arriving.
None of the above would support mass spending in game.
Just my opinion, could all be bollocks, but I don't really care anyway any more. Right I hear Tamriel calling, ttfn.
Pay to win my right eye. You can still build a ship for little to nothing and compete. The new T-6 carrier is a pain in the argula. You all need to quite your crying. Would anyone pay for nothing no. So of course it is an advantage such as life. Get over it. I often wonder what you people do in real life. Do you complain when the neighbor gets a new car? Pvp has more things one must learn and your to lazy to figure the new stuff out so you rage quit. That is why the ques are dead. Truth hurts I know but someone had to tell you.
And at the rate things are going, by the time you build that ship the sun will have entered it's red giant phase and all life on Earth will be gone.
There is absolutely NOTHING you can do in game to create zen.
Incorrect. Absolutely wrong. EC and Dilithium can be used to acquire Zen. You completely ignore that while zen can be traded down to dilithium and EC, the reverse is also true.
In fact, depending on the time of day and the value of ZEN, EC to Zen can be profitable.
You can create in game currency like dil or ec and trade it to someone else who has paid money for zen, but there is no in-game way to get zen. It only ever originates with real money, something that is outside and seperate from the game.
You're wrong. Your base assumptions are wrong because you don't understand the game mechanics..
Making assumption about the economy in an MMO is ridiculous to start with. Too many factors are at play:
1.) Cryptic can salt the process at any time and we'd never know about it. Most MMO's do, and Cryptic has with other titles in Asia. If I have to explain the context of 'salting' to you, you have no business talking about an economy - fictional or real.
2.) Cryptic can arbitrarily adjust ANY transaction element in the system. The player cannot.
3.) Key pricing is relative to demand. The last major incentive to buy a box was the R&D drop for the Sheshar. No keys needed.
4.) Key prices drop before they announce a new box. I've been playing since before F2P. Keys have ranged from 500K to 3.5 Million during that time.
MMO economies are fun to postulate about. But without concise data, basing an agrument on assumptions just makes an TRIBBLE out of U and ME.
Heh, after you endlessly grinded months to, buy & upgrade it. And until then, smart as their metric$ are, Cryptic throws out new OP stuff and you end up being out-dps-ed, all this game is now about.
LOL, because P2W killed PvP and made competition a no go.
Before P2W i was PvP'ing every day ;P
Hey...if you can't control yourself and you find you can't compete unless you have the new shiny that's not my fault or Cryptic's.
Which is funny because they newest stuff isn't even always the best...the Scimitar and Benthan Cruiser are calling.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
Incorrect. Absolutely wrong. EC and Dilithium can be used to acquire Zen. You completely ignore that while zen can be traded down to dilithium and EC, the reverse is also true.
In fact, depending on the time of day and the value of ZEN, EC to Zen can be profitable.
You quoted someone talking about creating zen, not acquiring.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Contraband, master keys, and/or buying what you wanted to spend zen on for EC.
But what I want to spend Zen on is stuff you can't buy on the Exchange - the TOS Bundle, for instance. You're not showing me how to get Zen for EC - you're showing me how to get some of the stuff Zen can buy for EC. And I've already done that, which is why my main owns the Mirror Universe deep-space science recon vessel ISS Mengele.
You're assuming lockbox key prices are going down because there's too high of a supply (i.e., people are spending too much RL money). Could be that's true. Could also simply mean lockbox ships have lost some of their appeal, as the only available T6 lockbox ships are the Benthan and Hazari one, and peeps are simply less interested in the old T5 ones now. Aka, less demand.
Agreed. Keys may be going down, but Fleet Modules are going up.
But what I want to spend Zen on is stuff you can't buy on the Exchange - the TOS Bundle, for instance. You're not showing me how to get Zen for EC - you're showing me how to get some of the stuff Zen can buy for EC. And I've already done that, which is why my main owns the Mirror Universe deep-space science recon vessel ISS Mengele.
You run the turn in contraband Doff mission from a security officer. You turn in 5 contraband to get 2,000 unrefined Dil.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Okay, fine. Given the amount of Zen I'd need to get the C-Store stuff I want, I think I'd still rather pay cash. (And yes, that falls under the heading of "impatience". Doing it via Dil just takes so bloody long!)
On the gripping hand, none of the C-Store stuff is necessary to my enjoyment of the game. For personal reasons, it would amuse me to dress Capt. Church in TOS command gold...
There has been a lot of ballyhoo on the forums about the game being wrecked, and people abandoning it, but I don't think there is good evidence that this is true.
Unless we have the actual figures, I don't think anything can be definitively determined. Cryptic is the only entity in which has the actual projections. Before I decided to take a leave of absence, the stf-ground queues were barely triggering. Some of the problems were due to bad game mechanics, low reward systems, and high difficulty settings.
After spending several months arguing against "Delta Rising+", I have decided to take a 'wait and see' approach. I have spent way-way too much money to just walk away. $600, across two accounts, is allot of money.
I love my characters. I love my fleet-mates. I love the majority of the episode missions. I love the socializing. I love dancing. I love Bajor. I love Risa. I love Defera. I love role-playing. I love Starfleet Academy. I love the patrol missions. I love the ground missions. I love the ground reputation items. I love my ships. I love the character customization options. I love the ship customization options.
I want "Star Trek: Online" to feel 'live' again. When the hourly calender events existed, I felt as though they made everyday a "Star Trek" episode. Everything felt 'live' and 'alive. Once they removed the hourly calender events, the game lost that 'now playing' mentality. Even though the endless grinding is an issue, I think the removal of the hourly calender events made everything static. I think the problem started with the removal of the Omega office.
I loved how 'everyone' congregated at: the Omega Office, Quark's bar, Drozana, Earth Space Dock, etc... Once the fleetbases were added to the game, while certain events were removed, the player base ended up becoming too thinned out. People still congregate in certain locations; however, the feeling of everything was drastically different.
"Star Trek: Online" has become too much about 'the grind', and it has become less about casual role-playing, PvP, and socializing.
Everyone in the game is thinking about 'the grind' rather than 'let us do something different'.
--- Added ---
I will always see Bajor, Andoria, and Vulcan as missed opportunities.
Comments
I used to face that choice. That was when I started playing STO, because it was free. Some folks claimed I couldn't get through the game without shelling out cash, so even when the wallet loosened, I kept playing free to prove a point.
Now I'm just waiting until there's something sufficiently impressive to make me pay. (T6 isn't necessary to play the new content, and my only Delta Quadrant toon has a free T5U ship to run it with...)
Why is it Doom to share experiences? Negative feedback on a forum should be expected, and welcome. Customer feedback is necessary to refine a product and make it more appealing.
Don't you give positive and negative feedback any time you participate in a survey?
Just because posters are saying they don't play or spend the way they once did (and why) doesn't mean they feel the game is doomed. It's merely a data point.
Obviously, people still like the game and still play.
I think this is a good description of the zen/dilithium market.
Without the upgrade sink I think there's no doubt the rate would be over 200. It's been creeping down the past couple weeks. I don't really have a very good feel for how low it will go. I would say though that a new fleet project might let is see the 130's again.
As far as the lockboxes go, I think there is very low demand right now. I'm saving the keys I got in the last sale until the next box comes out.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Theres a flaw with that jonsills i know people ingame that didnt buy food so they could get more zen...true story man no lie.
there are people that would rather get zen then food and these people are actually adults who i know?...i know them IRL a couple live in the same town i live in.
2/3 of the factions have almost no t6 cstore ships. Kdf and rom both got one high dps ship and one oddball low dps "cruiser wannabe" choice. Science was left out entirely -- the only t6 is the breen carrier, and barring that, a box ship. And in my experience, the box ship is as good as the carrier depending on personal tastes -- its hot to have an OSS boosted GW etc but the carrier's officer seating is extremely difficult to work with. All in all, I like my TSBC far better.
If true, I'd say they definitely cross a line. It's very sad and I hope they can get some psychiatric help.
...or a burglar breaks in and steals their computer. That would work, too.
Im not lying man i know them and i was as shocked as anyone when i found out hpow can anyone put ingame stuff before a basic need such as food.
A few people in this thread might need to look up what P2W actually means, instead of what it stanads for.
Completed Starbase, Embassy, Mine, Spire and No Win Scenario
Nothing to do anymore.
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Good analysis of the financial state of the game by taking any public available info into account. STO is far from being wrecked, but that does say nothing about the fun of their players.
Holy Grail of Gamification is Addiction | 5 Ways to Accomplisch | and the Psychology of Freemium
Ah, someone from the mirror universe, nice.
Heh, after you endlessly grinded months to, buy & upgrade it. And until then, smart as their metric$ are, Cryptic throws out new OP stuff and you end up being out-dps-ed, all this game is now about.
LOL, because P2W killed PvP and made competition a no go.
Before P2W i was PvP'ing every day ;P
Holy Grail of Gamification is Addiction | 5 Ways to Accomplisch | and the Psychology of Freemium
I agree with my Fleet Admiral.
ADM Board, Whitehall, London - United Federation of Planets
http://www.srs-fleet.net/
And at the rate things are going, by the time you build that ship the sun will have entered it's red giant phase and all life on Earth will be gone.
That doesn't matter in the game of technically correct.
I never laughed so good, thank you.
Correct.
Incorrect. Absolutely wrong. EC and Dilithium can be used to acquire Zen. You completely ignore that while zen can be traded down to dilithium and EC, the reverse is also true.
In fact, depending on the time of day and the value of ZEN, EC to Zen can be profitable.
You're wrong. Your base assumptions are wrong because you don't understand the game mechanics..
Making assumption about the economy in an MMO is ridiculous to start with. Too many factors are at play:
1.) Cryptic can salt the process at any time and we'd never know about it. Most MMO's do, and Cryptic has with other titles in Asia. If I have to explain the context of 'salting' to you, you have no business talking about an economy - fictional or real.
2.) Cryptic can arbitrarily adjust ANY transaction element in the system. The player cannot.
3.) Key pricing is relative to demand. The last major incentive to buy a box was the R&D drop for the Sheshar. No keys needed.
4.) Key prices drop before they announce a new box. I've been playing since before F2P. Keys have ranged from 500K to 3.5 Million during that time.
MMO economies are fun to postulate about. But without concise data, basing an agrument on assumptions just makes an TRIBBLE out of U and ME.
My Two Bits,
Admiral Thrax
Well then don't complain when you spend money because it's a active choice it's not like it's the only option.
Hey...if you can't control yourself and you find you can't compete unless you have the new shiny that's not my fault or Cryptic's.
Which is funny because they newest stuff isn't even always the best...the Scimitar and Benthan Cruiser are calling.
You quoted someone talking about creating zen, not acquiring.
Contraband is one example.
Contraband, master keys, and/or buying what you wanted to spend zen on for EC.
It's quite possible that keys are getting cheaper because people are sick of lockboxes, or the ones that usually buy keys with EC quit.
Agreed. Keys may be going down, but Fleet Modules are going up.
You run the turn in contraband Doff mission from a security officer. You turn in 5 contraband to get 2,000 unrefined Dil.
EC --> Contraband in Exchange -->Turn in Contraband --> Dil
On the gripping hand, none of the C-Store stuff is necessary to my enjoyment of the game. For personal reasons, it would amuse me to dress Capt. Church in TOS command gold...
After spending several months arguing against "Delta Rising+", I have decided to take a 'wait and see' approach. I have spent way-way too much money to just walk away. $600, across two accounts, is allot of money.
I love my characters. I love my fleet-mates. I love the majority of the episode missions. I love the socializing. I love dancing. I love Bajor. I love Risa. I love Defera. I love role-playing. I love Starfleet Academy. I love the patrol missions. I love the ground missions. I love the ground reputation items. I love my ships. I love the character customization options. I love the ship customization options.
I want "Star Trek: Online" to feel 'live' again. When the hourly calender events existed, I felt as though they made everyday a "Star Trek" episode. Everything felt 'live' and 'alive. Once they removed the hourly calender events, the game lost that 'now playing' mentality. Even though the endless grinding is an issue, I think the removal of the hourly calender events made everything static. I think the problem started with the removal of the Omega office.
I loved how 'everyone' congregated at: the Omega Office, Quark's bar, Drozana, Earth Space Dock, etc... Once the fleetbases were added to the game, while certain events were removed, the player base ended up becoming too thinned out. People still congregate in certain locations; however, the feeling of everything was drastically different.
"Star Trek: Online" has become too much about 'the grind', and it has become less about casual role-playing, PvP, and socializing.
Everyone in the game is thinking about 'the grind' rather than 'let us do something different'.
--- Added ---
I will always see Bajor, Andoria, and Vulcan as missed opportunities.