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New spect tree in 3 weeks?

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    kiloacekiloace Member Posts: 488 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    All I'd ask is the option to 1-time Respec Specialization points, in case I want to, say, keep my Intelligence Specialization on my Reman Operative, but invest in something a little more <insert spec tree here> on another character.
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    macroniusmacronius Member Posts: 2,526
    edited January 2015
    For some players who are responding positively to this:

    "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

    Join the rest of us and refuse all DR (future) grinds!
    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censored, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

    - Judge Aaron Satie
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    markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    macronius wrote: »
    For some players who are responding positively to this:

    "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

    Join the rest of us and refuse all DR (future) grinds!
    *burns the heretic*

    Actually I don't really bother with Spec grinding. I get a few things here and there, but I'm in no hurry.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
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    knuhteb5knuhteb5 Member Posts: 1,831 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    *burns the heretic*

    Actually I don't really bother with Spec grinding. I get a few things here and there, but I'm in no hurry.

    They will keep on adding spec trees and after adding 5 more, you'll say, I'm in no rush whlie the rest of us take 1-2 years just to grind it out on Alts. Are you serious?

    Edit: It's not alt friendly, it's not casual gaming. It's not fun!
    aGHGQIKr41KNi.gif
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    cbob312cbob312 Member Posts: 200 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    I saw this coming when I first saw the specialization page, you have a select for the primary and secondary for Chris sake.
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    futurepastnowfuturepastnow Member Posts: 3,660 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Like I said, I don't really have a problem with new specializations, I'm glad they're adding anything, really. But I finally got done with upgrades and specializations on my main character, so I thought I'd finally get started on an alt, and I bought the Phantom to give Intel ships a try. I'd like to try a surgical strikes build on this ship but at this point, I seriously doubt I'll *ever* be able to train a boff in SS3 on that character. It just kills my desire to actually play.

    I don't think I'm asking for too much... I don't need everything now. But the end has to be in sight. The goal has to feel attainable. And right now, it really, really doesn't.
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    virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Like I said, I don't really have a problem with new specializations, I'm glad they're adding anything, really. But I finally got done with upgrades and specializations on my main character, so I thought I'd finally get started on an alt, and I bought the Phantom to give Intel ships a try. I'd like to try a surgical strikes build on this ship but at this point, I seriously doubt I'll *ever* be able to train a boff in SS3 on that character. It just kills my desire to actually play.

    I don't think I'm asking for too much... I don't need everything now. But the end has to be in sight. The goal has to feel attainable. And right now, it really, really doesn't.

    I hope Cryptic is at least skimming through the threads to read things like the above post and not just dismissing all comments, and thus threads, as it being folks with 40 toons wanting them to be max geared yesterday sort of thing. Cause there's a big difference between what you and some other posters are saying, offering as feedback, and what some other posters are demanding.

    Alt-Needy <---> Alt-Friendly <---> Alt-Unfriendly

    There should be all sorts of wiggle room that they can tweak things toward that middle, without it being Alt-Needy and avoiding the Alt-Unfriendly.
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    markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,231 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    knuhteb5 wrote: »
    They will keep on adding spec trees and after adding 5 more, you'll say, I'm in no rush whlie the rest of us take 1-2 years just to grind it out on Alts. Are you serious?

    Edit: It's not alt friendly, it's not casual gaming. It's not fun!
    I have 12 characters with an average level of 56. Most of that leveling came from doffing.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
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    tehbubbalootehbubbaloo Member Posts: 2,003 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    i reckon the odds are pretty good that i am going to find out i have already spent my handful of spec points on the wrong thing :rolleyes:
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    thatcursedwolfthatcursedwolf Member Posts: 1,617 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    i reckon the odds are pretty good that i am going to find out i have already spent my handful of spec points on the wrong thing :rolleyes:

    Hopefully someone at Cryptic is familiar with the paradox of choice.
    This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
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    rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 58,020 Community Moderator
    edited January 2015
    Remember how alt unfriendly the Rep system was at first? Give it time. I'm sure we'll start seeing a way to make the Spec Trees more alt friendly as they work on it.

    I'm adopting my usual "Wait and see" approach rather than condeming anything right off the bat.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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    anazondaanazonda Member Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    orangeitis wrote: »
    At least I hope.

    Look... Hoping is one thing, history is another.

    Hoping is what politicians do... They lay out a plan, they implement it and HOPE that it either works, or that people don't notice that it failed.

    But you have to add some realism into it... Look back at the changes done before and then expect scenarios based on this.

    Expecting a much worse scenario will always be the better solution, because almost how miserable the result is, you won't get disappointed.

    Whenever I read your posts, I keep thinking that you, for whatever reason, try to keep up appearances about that you trust Cryptic is doing the right thing all the time, though I am confused at the same time...

    Hoping is fine, but realistically: Things aren't as fine as you make them out to be... They sure aren't as dark and miserable as some people make them out to be, but they aren't fine either.
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Remember how alt unfriendly the Rep system was at first? Give it time. I'm sure we'll start seeing a way to make the Spec Trees more alt friendly as they work on it.

    I'm adopting my usual "Wait and see" approach rather than condeming anything right off the bat.

    I still find the rep system unfriendly... Recent changes hasn't made it easier or more chew-able to me... Just slightly more transparent.

    However, the idea of "wait and see" is a good point of entry, as long as you mentally prepare for the worst...
    If you do that, then bad won't seem as bad, and good will seem great.
    Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
    Let me put the rumors to rest: it's definitely still the C-Store (Cryptic Store) It just takes ZEN.
    Like Duty Officers? Support effords to gather ideas
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    peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    After the fallout of DR Cryptic do this?

    I don't know what to say...it feels like Cryptic is so blind to the community and for whatever reason is determined to 'try' and retain players by getting them to grind the same content over and over even though it feels like it's having the opposite effect. They're just creating another grind system by copy/paste existing code which no doubt will be so full of OP stuff to encourage us to grind it over the old stuff with bugs which they will neglect to fix.

    Profit first, everything else second, shame that doesn't seem to include making a quality product and addressing the community. Cryptic won't learn and that brief moment they started communicating with the community ended before I could even restore some faith in the devs. Reading these blogs makes me wonder if Cryptic is just doing spin or genuinely believing what they say.

    While I aim to keep playing STO for as long as I feel able, part of me is looking forward to STO crashing and burning because of PWE/Cryptic's handling because that semes to be the only way they will learn.

    Show us what you've got Cryptic/PWE, bring it on.

    I salute you Silverwigs. You managed to describe a very sad ingame situation with much nicer words than I ever could.

    I’m looking forward to yet another hit in the face here. Lol, and I really feel beaten already.

    If u abstract levelling to spec points I think my 8 toons are somewhere between lvl 70-80 by now.

    I’m sure the next spec tree will teach me that all efforts put into them so far where a waist of my time.
    animated.gif
    Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
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    mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    orangeitis wrote: »
    Same here. For what it's worth. Too many games where you gear up, then stand in front of each other swinging your weapon until one of you drops turned me against MMO PvP waaaay before STO.
    I think STO's PvP at least wasn't that way 2 years ago. You need to keep moving due to the way accuracy and defense works, and you're normally always in a team.

    It can be quite satisfying, with an importance of timing and launching feint attacks to get healers to help the wrong guy and then switch targets.

    I never expected that I would like PvP, because I usually don't, but the team play and tactical aspect to it is really compelling and appeal to the same thing in me that makes me love Pen & Paper Roleplaying game combat (if the combat system is well-designed). (I love other stuff about RPGs, too, but... the combat part can be pretty fun if done well.)

    But I don't know how today's PvP is. Even despite all the fun stuff, PvP was imbalanced, and new consoles powers and lockbox ships tended to wreak havoc, and gear became more important over time.
    It's why I stopped playing the game pretty much completely for about 2 years, and now I am only doing the PvE stuff. I guess I fear having to learn so much and get the "required" ships and gear.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
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    kerygankerygan Member Posts: 254 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Why cry so much about grinding ... STO is a game where its easy to lvl up , and make those spec points , you just want all at once , other games takes years till you get to max level , if you can . It suppose to take time to level , it gives you a progress feel , makes a difference between yesterday and today , you just want all at once ...
    To be sincere i came back to STO after the Delta rising , because of its new content , and levels , and specs , i was bored of STO (didn't had what to do in game), now i have a reason to play it again.
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    thlaylierahthlaylierah Member Posts: 2,984 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    While I aim to keep playing STO for as long as I feel able, part of me is looking forward to STO crashing and burning because of PWE/Cryptic's handling because that semes to be the only way they will learn.

    Here's the problem with this statement:

    They are not smart enough to learn anything from the game's downfall and will just ignorantly blame the playerbase while deluding themselves about their greatness.

    The end of the game will only hurt the players not the company so stop wishing for it.
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    anazondaanazonda Member Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    Here's the problem with this statement:

    They are not smart enough to learn anything from the game's downfall and will just ignorantly blame the playerbase while deluding themselves about their greatness.

    The end of the game will only hurt the players not the company so stop wishing for it.

    Well if that's the case, eventually they will learn, because they can't get jobs once Cryptic is collapsed fully... Cause it IS the case.
    Don't look silly... Don't call it the "Z-Store/Zen Store"...
    Let me put the rumors to rest: it's definitely still the C-Store (Cryptic Store) It just takes ZEN.
    Like Duty Officers? Support effords to gather ideas
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    peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    kerygan wrote: »
    Why cry so much about grinding ... STO is a game where its easy to lvl up , and make those spec points , you just want all at once , other games takes years till you get to max level , if you can .

    I think the core issue at work with a lot of players is not how much time they need to get their spec trees full. Perhaps not even what boring and repetitive stuff they are forced to run in order to do so.

    The main problem at work is rather if they have any chance to ever fill their trees fast enough before cryptic simply hands out more and undoubtedly better ones.

    If you a satisfied with a mechanic at work which hinders you to ever experience game offerings to their full potential I salute you.

    I have a hard time to do so and can’t blame anybody else who does either.
    animated.gif
    Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
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    js26568js26568 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    kerygan wrote: »
    Why cry so much about grinding ... STO is a game where its easy to lvl up , and make those spec points , you just want all at once , other games takes years till you get to max level , if you can . It suppose to take time to level , it gives you a progress feel , makes a difference between yesterday and today , you just want all at once ...
    To be sincere i came back to STO after the Delta rising , because of its new content , and levels , and specs , i was bored of STO (didn't had what to do in game), now i have a reason to play it again.

    You haven't hit level 60 yet. I can tell.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Free Tibet!
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    kerygankerygan Member Posts: 254 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    js26568 wrote: »
    You haven't hit level 60 yet. I can tell.

    60 and allmost all intel and piloting specs , and i don't even play more than 2-3h / day
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    warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    js26568 wrote: »
    You haven't hit level 60 yet. I can tell.

    Now, now! Some things have to be learned first hand :cool:
    I hope Cryptic is at least skimming through the threads to read things like the above post and not just dismissing all comments, and thus threads, as it being folks with 40 toons wanting them to be max geared yesterday sort of thing. Cause there's a big difference between what you and some other posters are saying, offering as feedback, and what some other posters are demanding.

    Alt-Needy <---> Alt-Friendly <---> Alt-Unfriendly

    There should be all sorts of wiggle room that they can tweak things toward that middle, without it being Alt-Needy and avoiding the Alt-Unfriendly.

    This game has become completely alt-unfriendly. First my situation:

    I have about 12 toons across the Feds, most in the KDF, and a few as Roms, across all 3 captain classes. Up until the Tau Dewa Patrol Nerfing and the subsequent XP / Leveling nerfs, STO had been easy to level. Now, I'm sure players with only 1-2 REAL characters they play with should progress just fine. But if you had alts from a game that used to be alt-friendly, STO is a ****ing nightmare now.

    - The immense costs of upgrades. Gene Rodenberry help you if you want to upgrade Reputation gear.

    - The XP nerfs

    - The larger XP requirements / level to gain despite Cryptic's "Baghdad Bob" Propaganda that said otherwise.

    - Tied to the XP nerfs and larger XP req's to level, Specialization Point progression sucks.

    Then they're going to throw in another Spec Tree, which I'm quite positive, going from Cryptic's history, will be undoubtedly strong that you MUST level in it. And here I am with almost all my characters not having even 1/4 completion in Intel, much less any points in Commando or Piloting, and much, much less another full fledged Specialization Tree.

    Again, I have no issue with the inclusion of another Spec Tree. I was expecting that when DR was new. But with the steep requirements of everything these days, those alts will NEVER be worth anything. Everything from dil costs to XPs, and Level XP requirements. It kills Alt-Play completely.

    My Alts are not farmers. I spent good time with them to get them in competitive standards. But that was before all the XP and leveling Nerfs and insane dil costs.
    XzRTofz.gif
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    dgdolphdgdolph Member Posts: 592 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    What about fixing the old spec trees and xp grind before introducing new trees? Lot's of new powers are still broken (or at least have wrong descriptions)
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    orangeitisorangeitis Member Posts: 5,222 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    anazonda wrote: »
    Look... Hoping is one thing, history is another.

    Hoping is what politicians do... They lay out a plan, they implement it and HOPE that it either works, or that people don't notice that it failed.

    But you have to add some realism into it... Look back at the changes done before and then expect scenarios based on this.

    Expecting a much worse scenario will always be the better solution, because almost how miserable the result is, you won't get disappointed.

    Whenever I read your posts, I keep thinking that you, for whatever reason, try to keep up appearances about that you trust Cryptic is doing the right thing all the time, though I am confused at the same time...

    Hoping is fine, but realistically: Things aren't as fine as you make them out to be... They sure aren't as dark and miserable as some people make them out to be, but they aren't fine either.
    ...okay? Hope is all we have. The devs are going to do their own thing, and there isn't a lot we can do about it. As I've said in another post, the STO team has a vision of what they want STO to be like. Sure, they want us to enjoy it, but they also aren't going to change on a whim unless the system they've implemented has enough time to yield sufficient data to determine its impact.

    Here's the reality. When it comes time for them to review metrics and they see that STO is attracting more fans of the Korean grindfest games as well as players who understand the spec system and what it's trying to accomplish than STO is losing in players who refuse to grind, I doubt that anything about exp-to-spec point rates will change.

    If anyone's wondering, as I understand what the spec point system is for, it's merely a system of bonus passives and skills occasionally given to players who passively play the game. It supposed to be "infinite progression"(Geko's words there), and is not supposed to be completed by any player ever. This is my understanding of what the spec system is.

    Now considering that, after they release a few more spec trees, they can afford to lower the gap of exp-to-spec point rate so that it's still an infinite progression, but will be easier for players to fill one specific spec tree. That's also the reason why I think that the exp-to-spec point rate is so wide; because there's only 3 spec trees, which if handed out at "reasonable" rate would totally deplete all of it very quickly. The direct opposite of infinite progression.

    What are the alternatives to hope? Constructive criticism, whining childishly on the forums, or just dealing with what Cryptic gives us. Certainly none of them are mutually exclusive to hope, but hoping for change isn't harmful in any way.
    I think STO's PvP at least wasn't that way 2 years ago. You need to keep moving due to the way accuracy and defense works, and you're normally always in a team.

    It can be quite satisfying, with an importance of timing and launching feint attacks to get healers to help the wrong guy and then switch targets.

    I never expected that I would like PvP, because I usually don't, but the team play and tactical aspect to it is really compelling and appeal to the same thing in me that makes me love Pen & Paper Roleplaying game combat (if the combat system is well-designed). (I love other stuff about RPGs, too, but... the combat part can be pretty fun if done well.)

    But I don't know how today's PvP is. Even despite all the fun stuff, PvP was imbalanced, and new consoles powers and lockbox ships tended to wreak havoc, and gear became more important over time.
    It's why I stopped playing the game pretty much completely for about 2 years, and now I am only doing the PvE stuff. I guess I fear having to learn so much and get the "required" ships and gear.
    The mechanics of STO's PvP is IMHO a lot better than a lot of other MMORPGs out there I've played. But considering that the higher-ups(particularly Geko) are holding off till they can implement a "PvP reputation system" properly, they seem to be avoiding PvP almost entirely, I want to reserve total judgement on PvP till that PvP rep is released.
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    lystentlystent Member Posts: 1,019
    edited January 2015
    eltatus wrote: »
    LOL cryptic, really? a new spec tree? LOL.. ppl complain about the stupid XP grind and you just add more?

    And we all know, that if we fallow cryptic history, the new spec tree is going to be MUCH more better than the old.

    LOL

    Don't you have a better game to play?
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    mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    anazonda wrote: »
    Well if that's the case, eventually they will learn, because they can't get jobs once Cryptic is collapsed fully... Cause it IS the case.
    but that is an extreme hypothetical scenario.

    I've not just experienced this kind of thinking in STO or other MMOs. I've even seen it at work. There were times where we were unhappy with our own QA. There was always someone that said: "One day, we'll crash really bigm, and it will cost us big money, and they have to realize that they need to do better - if we can even recover at all".

    But that never happened. The Big Crash rarely, if ever, happens in real life.

    Today however we are happier with our QA - we managed to adopt new processes that make QA more integral to the whole development process. We are still not satisfied with everything, we know there are still plenty of bugs in our software, but we also have a much better handle on them, and the kind of bugs we have tend to be less serious than they used to.

    The important thing is to not "hope" or "fear" for a big crash. The important thing is to work on getting things changed. Step by step, slowly. Just as there is usually no big crash, there is also no big, sudden improvement.

    But on the forums, things are always extreme. The game is doomed and as good as dead, and if Cryptic doesn't make a 180° turn, everything is lost forever. Any possible improvement is probably "too little, too late" and what not...
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
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    antoniosalieriantoniosalieri Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    My Alts are not farmers. I spent good time with them to get them in competitive standards. But that was before all the XP and leveling Nerfs and insane dil costs.

    I feel your pain. I have around 20 toons. None of them where rolled as farmers. I have lockbox ships on all but 1-2 of them that I had in KDF Bops. (some of my toons have 4 or 5 lockbox ships on them) I have fleet ships on EVERY one of my toons. Not to mention tons of actual gear.

    Up until DR I was managing to keep almost all of them up to date. At the very least my least played ones where able to do STFs if I felt like it. I had enough rep on all of them to at least select a good 4 rep passives. I had rep completed on a 1/3 of them easily... and at least level 4 on ALL the reps on I would say half of them.

    Now I have pretty much stopped playing... cause after a few weeks of hard grinding after DR I realized all but 1 or 2 of my toons where now useless. Only good for farming D. What a slap in the face that was.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
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    swatopswatop Member Posts: 566 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    The players complain about too much grind which is totally destroying the fun part of the game... isnt it logical that the devs introduce even more grind then?
    no?... no?.... yeah well.... no!!!


    The developers did many bad decisions and terrible changes for this game in 2014 and they have great news for 2015: they will continue and make it even worse.
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    leviathan99#2867 leviathan99 Member Posts: 7,747 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    I feel like this article from Kotaku on Dragon Age could just as easily be about STO in many ways:

    http://kotaku.com/i-wish-dragon-age-inquisition-respected-my-time-1677548813
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    kerygankerygan Member Posts: 254 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    a pvp reputation is not a bad ideea , but ofc with fixed skills
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    erei1erei1 Member Posts: 4,081 Arc User
    edited January 2015
    kerygan wrote: »
    60 and allmost all intel and piloting specs , and i don't even play more than 2-3h / day
    Honestly, I wonder how you did that. Unless you either grinded tau dewa when it was up, or you grinded some DR patrol afterward.

    I log in once or twice a day. I slot doff mission on every char I have (5). I check PESTF (before DR probably the most popular channel when it came to do queued content), and except for sometime a call for ground, it's more or less empty.
    Then I log off, no team, no queues. Even if I found a STF in my channel, that would have been 2K xp, which isn't much.

    Since QWW started, I haven't done a SINGLE spec point. I mean, I did one on some char because the XP bar was almost full, but on a character with an empty bar, no lvlup. How do I know ? because this char was 58 when the event started, and is still 58.

    Maybe I'm doing it wrong, and spend 2h of my life grinding argala, trying to queue for ISA, and fail because pug don't understand it's not ISE anymore, or perhaps I should make the tour of the galaxy daily to find the rare DOFF missions with lot of xp. I don't know.
    Then it was said it is something we earned through our favorite activities, and we didn't had to grind for it. But it's obviously not, unless grinding patrol is your favorite activity. Dyson sphere BZ : no xp reward from quests, low xp. Kobali BZ : ground xp is low, low xp from quests. 2K xp from an stf. DOFFING : most mission award 100-200xp (max), and some rare ones offer 1K (20h length), except for a single KDF mission that seems to award a lot (I heard 10k) when critted.

    So yeah, I'm really curious.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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