I wonder how many people have even finished one tree thus far given the grind times involved?
Been taking it easy and have finished full spec tree on two characters. Expect to finish the 3rd character within a week.
All that is needed is to play smart instead of grinding Argala like a flock of brainless sheep.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
Spec points may be locked behind a massive XP wall but for all I don't like about them you don't have to rely on optional-means-required queues.
While there will be undoubtedly be power creep at least it will be attempted to be balanced within itself as you can't mix and match between trees (compared to 2 piece of this set with 2 piece of that set for an unintendedly powerful passive bonus).
I can't muster up any indignant rage on this one.
Now the ship discounts, those I can.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
On the one had, I am curious to see what the new specialization will be. I also want to see how the existing non Intel Tier 6 ships will be affected (Will any new boffs realted to the specialization be able to work in those ships hybrid seat, or will they just stay an intel hybrid seat only?).
On the other hand though, I don't really want to put any effort into the new specialization, The main toon I play as is at level 60 but isn't even anywere near done on Intelligence not to mention Commando and Pilot. I don't want to give up the work I've put into Inteligence by making another power active and starting over.
On the grinding issue? Con definitely on grinding. I have 45 characters, and I can't see me completing even one spec tree on one character feasible in the near future. I don't consider the spec trees needed in any way, but I'd definitely like to eventually max them.
What I'm against is the mindset that it's NEEDED. If you don't PvP, it's not. And even with PvP, you'd have to be pretty competitively-minded to consider it worth grinding endlessly for the spec points. I don't like to see my fellow players not having fun any more. You supposed to have fun playing games, and if the effort put into the game is greater than the expected fun you get from it... why even bother? That's why I'm opposed to that mindset.
Of course, I'm just a white knight developer apologist to some. *shrug*
I usually assume that developers put stuff into a game because they want the players to participate in it. And I tend to judge the content based on how much fun it is. Since the spec trees aren't really their own activity, you can only judge based on the amount of time it takes to progress without sacrificing fun. And to me the whole spec system falls flat in that regard.
I usually assume that developers put stuff into a game because they want the players to participate in it. And I tend to judge the content based on how much fun it is. Since the spec trees aren't really their own activity, you can only judge based on the amount of time it takes to progress without sacrificing fun. And to me the whole spec system falls flat in that regard.
lol another one? i didn't even finish the first one.
*waves his hand and go on playing Firefall, where lvling is fun, easy and rewarding
So fun that you're spending time on the STO forums?
I'm sorry, but you did leave yourself open for that one. You're more than welcome to play whatever the hell you like but there is a point for maintaining self-consistency (ie. not shooting yourself in the foot). :P
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
I don't know what to say...it feels like Cryptic is so blind to the community and for whatever reason is determined to 'try' and retain players by getting them to grind the same content over and over even though it feels like it's having the opposite effect. They're just creating another grind system by copy/paste existing code which no doubt will be so full of OP stuff to encourage us to grind it over the old stuff with bugs which they will neglect to fix.
Profit first, everything else second, shame that doesn't seem to include making a quality product and addressing the community. Cryptic won't learn and that brief moment they started communicating with the community ended before I could even restore some faith in the devs. Reading these blogs makes me wonder if Cryptic is just doing spin or genuinely believing what they say.
While I aim to keep playing STO for as long as I feel able, part of me is looking forward to STO crashing and burning because of PWE/Cryptic's handling because that semes to be the only way they will learn.
So fun that you're spending time on the STO forums?
I'm sorry, but you did leave yourself open for that one. You're more than welcome to play whatever the hell you like but there is a point for maintaining self-consistency (ie. not shooting yourself in the foot). :P
Perhaps Firefall is blocked by their company's firewall.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
it is specifically because of this insipid nonsense that i dont pvp.
its manifestation of all teh banal win by calculator before the map loads idiocy that gets rpg pvp laughed at in the first place.
Same here. For what it's worth. Too many games where you gear up, then stand in front of each other swinging your weapon until one of you drops turned me against MMO PvP waaaay before STO.
So fun that you're spending time on the STO forums?
I'm sorry, but you did leave yourself open for that one. You're more than welcome to play whatever the hell you like but there is a point for maintaining self-consistency (ie. not shooting yourself in the foot). :P
oh sorry i didn't know one can't even mention another game, as a positive example. in the future i'll limit myself to whining about STO
Defiant
RnD and upgrade needs less RNG. Less lottery. Something has to change.
dont give me that sophistry like its anything other than bilge.
these systems are nothing but massive built in pow gaps between new and established players and you know it. the only thing that MORE of these bloody systems will create is yet more problems.
Except that these systems have definite limits (every time a spec tree is added it doesn't make you more powerful, save for the intelligent application of relevant abilities, UNLIKE the old rep trait system) and are accessible simply by playing the game. Unlike old STO they're more accommodating than outrageous console prices on the exchange or numerous point-by-point skills that you can definitely TRIBBLE up if you don't know precisely what you're doing (which you can restate as "being new to the game".)
They're more stuff, but a better sort of stuff than we had to contend with a few years ago. Some might call that progress.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
oh sorry i didn't know one can't even mention another game, as a positive example. in the future i'll limit myself to whining about STO
I mention other games all the time. Its how game discussion takes place (you use benchmarks from else where to judge just what the hell is happening here. Its all relative, and if you restrict relative to a given game or franchise you're narrowing your point of view considerably.)
However it does undermine your point a bit to be singing the praises of something else (to the extent that its substituted whatever it is you're talking about now) while still hanging onto the cultural face of the obsolete game. If its better move on, or else people will think that you're not being entirely honest with them, or even yourself.
At the very least, maintaining that sort of self-consistency precludes the chance of *******s like me making cheap shots at why you're still here.
Bipedal mammal and senior Foundry author.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
dont give me that sophistry like its anything other than bilge.
these systems are nothing but massive built in pow gaps between new and established players and you know it. the only thing that MORE of these bloody systems will create is yet more problems.
Somebody having the choice of multiple Primary Specializations does not create any power gap between players since they can only have one Primary Specialization...much like somebody having a half dozen Deflectors doesn't mean much, since they can only slot a single Deflector (outside of those curious load bugs where you end up seeing three to four - /facepalm).
They're something to work toward...progression. Whether it's a MMO with leveling, whether it's a FPS with unlocks, whether it's a multiplayer platformer where Player A gets to the Power Up! first, etc, etc, etc...
...no, this isn't chess, checkers, nor tic-tac-toe.
...but neither is it a game without a cap to the gap.
Oh noes, a new player might have to spend a month to reach the same point that a player that's been playing for fives years is at!!!
That's not a problem with the game...that's a problem with whiny-TRIBBLE players. Maybe if they spent that month also trying to learn how to play instead of crying left, right, and center...they wouldn't be so bad once they reached that point.
And that's not to say their maybe shouldn't be some form of discount when you max out a Spec tree, that they either give you or you can buy in some fashion which allows you to earn the Spec Points faster on alts. Cause somebody running alts is going to have distinct issues.
New spec trees would be okay, even nice if it was possible to level up fast enough to make it worth doing, as it is leveling is an "oh look I levelled... 150k to the next one..." at current rates of exp gain lvl 60+ would be fine at 50k per spec point, it's not like you're likely to get more that one point a day unless you dedicate your life to grinding them but at the same time it's a reachable goal.
Adding a new specialization is something that probably doesn't require a huge amount of development time... adding new specs isn't something I can fault, especially since they said they would.
The absurd amount of time/XP it takes to earn spec points is another matter. That needs a serious reevaluation.
I don't quite understand the people asking why so soon. We knew they were coming and the sooner they get out the sooner we can make educated choices on where we want to spend the points.
Sure it would be easier if the points were super cheap and we could just buy everything, but I at least, would find that kinda boring.
*Note, I am a former EQ player who ground out thousands of AA points on multiple characters so I am am familiar with systems where you are not suppose to have everything.
Adding a new specialization is something that probably doesn't require a huge amount of development time... adding new specs isn't something I can fault, especially since they said they would.
The absurd amount of time/XP it takes to earn spec points is another matter. That needs a serious reevaluation.
It seems reasonable that they decrease the amount needed to get a spec point after each set of specialization trees released. I think they just don't want players to run out of content, rather than keep players from getting to the end of a spec tree. We do only have three spec trees so far. After we get a dozen or so, we might have an easy time to max one.
Adding a new specialization is something that probably doesn't require a huge amount of development time... adding new specs isn't something I can fault, especially since they said they would.
The absurd amount of time/XP it takes to earn spec points is another matter. That needs a serious reevaluation.
If they want to add a bunch of trees... I would say the logical thing to do would be to make Spec points in fact not that hard to get.
As it is now it is going to be a massive mess. New players will be well behind. I know they only need one tree to activate it cause only 1-2 can be activated ect. We all know that is bunk. If the game was well run the trees would have things in them that would make X or Y content easier. Perhaps one space tree would make fighting Unidne Easier... and another Borg. With the idea being people would fill them both and swap back and forth. As it is with one tree taking people months to fill there won't be any flipping back and forth. So all this change will do is (attempt) to keep people constantly grinding. More and more people are simply going to uninstall this game.
The main issue really is the amount of time required to grind these points.
What they should do imo is set it up so people are earning 1-2 spec points per hour of play. (yes perhaps even as fast as 1 point every 30 min)... then simply increase the speed of new spec trees. As they have said no one can have more then the 2 trees active one Major and one minor. Flood the game with them. Heck drop a new one with every lockbox... tailor them to the PvE content so there is a reason to grind all of them out and swap them while your playing. At that point I would even say it was a good system, honestly.
Somebody having the choice of multiple Primary Specializations does not create any power gap between players since they can only have one Primary Specialization...much like somebody having a half dozen Deflectors doesn't mean much, since they can only slot a single Deflector (outside of those curious load bugs where you end up seeing three to four - /facepalm).
They're something to work toward...progression. Whether it's a MMO with leveling, whether it's a FPS with unlocks, whether it's a multiplayer platformer where Player A gets to the Power Up! first, etc, etc, etc...
...no, this isn't chess, checkers, nor tic-tac-toe.
...but neither is it a game without a cap to the gap.
It really is if you're the kind of player who can only get in one spec point a month.
i think the funniest one is watching two people try to kite each other for flank bonuses when both are constantly turning to face eachother in what comes down to who had the biggest stack of heal potions...
irrelivent to the point of non sequier.
the limit to these systems is having filled them, at which point you have 5 to 10 abilities at a time more than a player that doesnt have them. just because exp time gate.
also, trying to claim these systems arent making you more powerful is an utter and complete lie.
just attack pattern spec alone results in 15k+ hull hp per minute if you run x2apB
just because eventually after months ov gring you may need to choose between one sack of powers and another does not chang a single part of the reality that it is massive sicks of power you are choosing between when players that having ground them out, just wont have those powers.
that situation is ****ing vapid, and should never be added to an mmo if the goal is to keep the game healthy.
That only works if you're capable of completing them before the next spec system comes out. Otherwise you end up with one specialization 40% complete and then start the next one, which you get to 40% complete, and then the next one which you get to 40% complete and you never even get one of them as an option.
For once I am glad I didn't follow the herd and run to Argala and grind my nacelle off. I haven't got much spec done. Now I can get a good lead replacing my old one I have like nothing done for.
Because each tree has a certain specialization which can directly relate to an intended playstyle. For my commando-maxed KDF for example I will never substitute out my secondary specialization because those abilities and buffs are entirely appropriate to what I want to focus on for that character.
I would prefer to have pilot primary and commando secondary. But no, I have to have intelligence because someone else decided it's the best spec ever and I love it.
Comments
Been taking it easy and have finished full spec tree on two characters. Expect to finish the 3rd character within a week.
All that is needed is to play smart instead of grinding Argala like a flock of brainless sheep.
While there will be undoubtedly be power creep at least it will be attempted to be balanced within itself as you can't mix and match between trees (compared to 2 piece of this set with 2 piece of that set for an unintendedly powerful passive bonus).
I can't muster up any indignant rage on this one.
Now the ship discounts, those I can.
On the other hand though, I don't really want to put any effort into the new specialization, The main toon I play as is at level 60 but isn't even anywere near done on Intelligence not to mention Commando and Pilot. I don't want to give up the work I've put into Inteligence by making another power active and starting over.
I usually assume that developers put stuff into a game because they want the players to participate in it. And I tend to judge the content based on how much fun it is. Since the spec trees aren't really their own activity, you can only judge based on the amount of time it takes to progress without sacrificing fun. And to me the whole spec system falls flat in that regard.
*waves his hand and go on playing Firefall, where lvling is fun, easy and rewarding
RnD and upgrade needs less RNG. Less lottery. Something has to change.
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So fun that you're spending time on the STO forums?
I'm sorry, but you did leave yourself open for that one. You're more than welcome to play whatever the hell you like but there is a point for maintaining self-consistency (ie. not shooting yourself in the foot). :P
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
I don't know what to say...it feels like Cryptic is so blind to the community and for whatever reason is determined to 'try' and retain players by getting them to grind the same content over and over even though it feels like it's having the opposite effect. They're just creating another grind system by copy/paste existing code which no doubt will be so full of OP stuff to encourage us to grind it over the old stuff with bugs which they will neglect to fix.
Profit first, everything else second, shame that doesn't seem to include making a quality product and addressing the community. Cryptic won't learn and that brief moment they started communicating with the community ended before I could even restore some faith in the devs. Reading these blogs makes me wonder if Cryptic is just doing spin or genuinely believing what they say.
While I aim to keep playing STO for as long as I feel able, part of me is looking forward to STO crashing and burning because of PWE/Cryptic's handling because that semes to be the only way they will learn.
Show us what you've got Cryptic/PWE, bring it on.
Perhaps Firefall is blocked by their company's firewall.
Helpful Tools: Dictionary.com - Logical fallacies - Random generator - Word generator - Color tool - Extra Credits - List of common English language errors - New T6 Big booty tutorial
oh sorry i didn't know one can't even mention another game, as a positive example. in the future i'll limit myself to whining about STO
RnD and upgrade needs less RNG. Less lottery. Something has to change.
Except that these systems have definite limits (every time a spec tree is added it doesn't make you more powerful, save for the intelligent application of relevant abilities, UNLIKE the old rep trait system) and are accessible simply by playing the game. Unlike old STO they're more accommodating than outrageous console prices on the exchange or numerous point-by-point skills that you can definitely TRIBBLE up if you don't know precisely what you're doing (which you can restate as "being new to the game".)
They're more stuff, but a better sort of stuff than we had to contend with a few years ago. Some might call that progress.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
RnD and upgrade needs less RNG. Less lottery. Something has to change.
I mention other games all the time. Its how game discussion takes place (you use benchmarks from else where to judge just what the hell is happening here. Its all relative, and if you restrict relative to a given game or franchise you're narrowing your point of view considerably.)
However it does undermine your point a bit to be singing the praises of something else (to the extent that its substituted whatever it is you're talking about now) while still hanging onto the cultural face of the obsolete game. If its better move on, or else people will think that you're not being entirely honest with them, or even yourself.
At the very least, maintaining that sort of self-consistency precludes the chance of *******s like me making cheap shots at why you're still here.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
Looking for something new to play? I've started building Foundry missions again in visual novel form!
Somebody having the choice of multiple Primary Specializations does not create any power gap between players since they can only have one Primary Specialization...much like somebody having a half dozen Deflectors doesn't mean much, since they can only slot a single Deflector (outside of those curious load bugs where you end up seeing three to four - /facepalm).
They're something to work toward...progression. Whether it's a MMO with leveling, whether it's a FPS with unlocks, whether it's a multiplayer platformer where Player A gets to the Power Up! first, etc, etc, etc...
...no, this isn't chess, checkers, nor tic-tac-toe.
...but neither is it a game without a cap to the gap.
Oh noes, a new player might have to spend a month to reach the same point that a player that's been playing for fives years is at!!!
That's not a problem with the game...that's a problem with whiny-TRIBBLE players. Maybe if they spent that month also trying to learn how to play instead of crying left, right, and center...they wouldn't be so bad once they reached that point.
And that's not to say their maybe shouldn't be some form of discount when you max out a Spec tree, that they either give you or you can buy in some fashion which allows you to earn the Spec Points faster on alts. Cause somebody running alts is going to have distinct issues.
Lol....
The absurd amount of time/XP it takes to earn spec points is another matter. That needs a serious reevaluation.
that way before every mission folks can respec our spec points like how folks can respec their traits if they so wish to.
I don't quite understand the people asking why so soon. We knew they were coming and the sooner they get out the sooner we can make educated choices on where we want to spend the points.
Sure it would be easier if the points were super cheap and we could just buy everything, but I at least, would find that kinda boring.
*Note, I am a former EQ player who ground out thousands of AA points on multiple characters so I am am familiar with systems where you are not suppose to have everything.
At least I hope.
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If they want to add a bunch of trees... I would say the logical thing to do would be to make Spec points in fact not that hard to get.
As it is now it is going to be a massive mess. New players will be well behind. I know they only need one tree to activate it cause only 1-2 can be activated ect. We all know that is bunk. If the game was well run the trees would have things in them that would make X or Y content easier. Perhaps one space tree would make fighting Unidne Easier... and another Borg. With the idea being people would fill them both and swap back and forth. As it is with one tree taking people months to fill there won't be any flipping back and forth. So all this change will do is (attempt) to keep people constantly grinding. More and more people are simply going to uninstall this game.
The main issue really is the amount of time required to grind these points.
What they should do imo is set it up so people are earning 1-2 spec points per hour of play. (yes perhaps even as fast as 1 point every 30 min)... then simply increase the speed of new spec trees. As they have said no one can have more then the 2 trees active one Major and one minor. Flood the game with them. Heck drop a new one with every lockbox... tailor them to the PvE content so there is a reason to grind all of them out and swap them while your playing. At that point I would even say it was a good system, honestly.
Free Tibet!
Think you missed a patch.
They're an additional reward for playing the game...which is assumed you were doing already. They're not busy work.
It really is if you're the kind of player who can only get in one spec point a month.
That only works if you're capable of completing them before the next spec system comes out. Otherwise you end up with one specialization 40% complete and then start the next one, which you get to 40% complete, and then the next one which you get to 40% complete and you never even get one of them as an option.
I would prefer to have pilot primary and commando secondary. But no, I have to have intelligence because someone else decided it's the best spec ever and I love it.