but is she a villian or just a wee bit Machiavellian?
Or insane?
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
I think Star Trek should return but they should do it like the writers did of Babylon 5... with character and story arc bibles.
I loved Babylon 5 for the story line. My wife hated it as there where some episodes that had 3 stories going on in them (the shows story, the seasons story, and the series story arc).
I agree that a new Star Trek show should be planed out from beginning to end for constantly.
"The soldier above all others prays for peace, for it is the soldier who must suffer and bear the deepest wounds and scars of war."
Douglas MacArthur - Quote on the dedication plaque of the U.S.S. Ranger NCC-97332-A Armitage class Fleet Heavy Strike Wing Escort.
I loved Babylon 5 for the story line. My wife hated it as there where some episodes that had 3 stories going on in them (the shows story, the seasons story, and the series story arc).
J. Michael Stracynski had a little fun with that later. When he was writing Amazing Spider-Man, he had a scene in the control room of a nuclear reactor, where the two on-duty technicians were chatting.
"--she said, 'How can you watch that Babylon 5 TRIBBLE? It takes five years for something to pay off that you saw in year one!' And I said, 'That's the point!'"
I loved Babylon 5 for the story line. My wife hated it as there where some episodes that had 3 stories going on in them (the shows story, the seasons story, and the series story arc).
I agree that a new Star Trek show should be planed out from beginning to end for constantly.
Well, JMS is awesome but even he didn't script the entire show all at once. He started with the broad strokes. How will B5 start and end? What will happen after that? (yes he planned to do Crusade before he even wrote B5.) Then he broke that down into parts. What's going to happen in season 1 of B5?... etc. Then into episodes. Part of why there were so many one-off things in B5, is that the overall story went "insert McGuffin here" and it needed to be a thing that didn't relate to the overall story.
Sequel series that got massive executive meddling and was cancelled before the pilot aired. Drakh drop bioweapons on Earth, Earthforce dispatches the EAS Excalibur to look for a cure.
They've got 13 episodes available on DVD, though the episode order is pretty scrambled.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
I heard, but can't confirm, that JMS actually came up with broad strokes ideas for three series total, but only one got finished. Oh and they did actually broadcast Crusade. not for long, but they did do it.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
She did whatever she had to do to get her crew home despite the situation she was in.
*sings* "I like Gammera! He's so neat!!! He is full of turtle meat!!!"
"Hah! You are doomed! You're only armed with that pathetic excuse for a musical instrument!!!" *the Savage Beast moments before Lonnehart the Bard used music to soothe him... then beat him to death with his Fat Lute*
He has a strange, racist hatred for Kim. Not too dissimilar to his sexist hatred of the person this thread is about, actually.
Actually, numbskull, you're completely wrong.
I don't like VOY's Harry Kim (the STO version is actually pretty cool) because he's a big dumb waste of space; in fact, the writers and directors of Voyager repeatedly told Garret Wang to express nothing but Dull Surprise and made him ask all of the stupid questions to ram it into the viewers' faces that it's DA FUTURE!!! over and f*cking over.
Nothing to do with him being vaguely Asian. I would find VOY Harry Kim boring and pointless if he were black, white, some random alien, female, intersex, some alien gender, or otherwise anything but what he is.
Same with Janeway; I'd find her a psychopathic Mary Sue with poor leadership skills and the tactical ability of a brain-damaged gerbil if she were male, too. Hell, I'd find her a terrible Captain if she were played by David Tennant; her actions are just too vile.
So stop projecting your own petty bigotry onto others and maybe take a nice long look at yourself in the mirror.
She made a major mistake. She was always answering EVERY single distress call, and falling for the same lure every time. We received an Ocampa distress call, and were attacked by Kazon. We received Hirogen distress call, and were attacked by Borg. DUH! But she still fell for it EVERY TIME! Sorry, but you get no sympathy from me. If, IF you choose to investigate another distress call, you had better have your shields up, and your weapons fully-powered. When, not if, WHEN the distress call turns out to be yet another fishing pole waiting for some curious idiot to ambush, you had batter be prepared to start shooting.
And of course, EVERY time Voyager was attacked, Vaneway simply stood there, and repeatedly radioed them to stop attacking us, stop attacking us, stop attacking us. No. The best way to overpower a trickle of resistance is with a flood of brute force.
She made a major mistake. She was always answering EVERY single distress call, and falling for the same lure every time. We received an Ocampa distress call, and were attacked by Kazon. We received Hirogen distress call, and were attacked by Borg. DUH! But she still fell for it EVERY TIME! Sorry, but you get no sympathy from me. If, IF you choose to investigate another distress call, you had better have your shields up, and your weapons fully-powered. When, not if, WHEN the distress call turns out to be yet another fishing pole waiting for some curious idiot to ambush, you had batter be prepared to start shooting.
And of course, EVERY time Voyager was attacked, Vaneway simply stood there, and repeatedly radioed them to stop attacking us, stop attacking us, stop attacking us. No. The best way to overpower a trickle of resistance is with a flood of brute force.
That deppends on personality , not everyone is Sisko , or for that matter Picard ... is like that line where Q gets punched in the face by Sisko , and he says :"Picard never hit me" where the answer is :" I'm not Picard"
Janeway is curious , helpfull , and she allsow tried to get friendly with all species , cause they ware afterall outnumbered , alone in the Delta quadrant. I think , for the situation she was in , she acted better than others would . She got home ...
Allsow you look at the captain , but the leader of a crew is there to combine the abillities of his crew to bring harmony and get the best outcome , you should not look at only one person , you should look at all the Voyager's crew , everyone had its role , Seven was stubborn and intelligent and cruel at some point , Harry was useless w/o the others , Tuvok was glacial and logic , B'ellana was agressive , Neelix was high , The Doctor was curious , resourfull , funny , and selfish , Tom was Billy the Kid , but the combination of their "skills" got them home.
That deppends on personality , not everyone is Sisko , or for that matter Picard ... is like that line where Q gets punched in the face by Sisko , and he says :"Picard never hit me" where the answer is :" I'm not Picard"
Janeway is curious , helpfull , and she allsow tried to get friendly with all species , cause they ware afterall outnumbered , alone in the Delta quadrant. I think , for the situation she was in , she acted better than others would . She got home ...
Allsow you look at the captain , but the leader of a crew is there to combine the abillities of his crew to bring harmony and get the best outcome , you should not look at only one person , you should look at all the Voyager's crew , everyone had its role , Seven was stubborn and intelligent and cruel at some point , Harry was useless w/o the others , Tuvok was glacial and logic , B'ellana was agressive , Neelix was high , The Doctor was curious , resourfull , funny , and selfish , Tom was Billy the Kid , but the combination of their "skills" got them home.
Well, let's go man-by-man, hmm?
Janeway--Skills: Uncertain, but seems to involve being a caricature of third-wave feminism while hanging around a chiseled, vaguely ethnic dude. Flaws: Murdered an officer, attempted genocide, committed high treason, threatened to torture an officer.
Chakotay--Skills: Ostensibly a guerrilla leader but rarely shows signs of such skills, otherwise hangs around being vaguely ethnic and wooden. Flaws: Is more wooden than an oak tree, vaguely ethnic heritage often makes him offensively racist.
Tuvok--Skills: Competent security officer, generally sensible in other areas. Flaws: Nobody EVER listens to him.
The holodoc--Skills: Brilliant physician and expert surgeon, talented pathologist and neurologist. Is a hologram with an AI. Is the most interesting character on the show by a long shot. Flaws: can be abrasive, tends to be the Butt Monkey for bad jokes in early seasons.
Seven of TRIBBLE--Skills: Whatever the plot demands. Is a good role model for people with mild autism. Flaws: Is basically there for the fanservice, is a massive waste of Jeri Ryan's talents.
Torres--Skills: Grease monkey. Flaws: Is unable to identify horse manure with a 24th century scanning device. Her character changes depending on whether she's being written as a Strong Female Character or as an unenlightened woman who has seen the light of Janeway the Perfect.
Harry Kim--Skills: Vague potential, getting killed. Flaws: Due to Executive Meddling and Executive Incompetence is never promoted and always acts like a moron.
Tom Paris--Skills: All. Commando, field medic, ace pilot, expert engineer, once designed a shuttle whose speed has a divide-by-zero error, survival expert, brilliant space tactician, expert diplomat, holoprogrammer, even a decent cook. Flaws: Can be a jerk in early seasons, is never as omnicompetent when it's one of his episodes; he's only "allowed" to be the ultimate everything when someone else is supposed to be in the limelight and needs something ridiculously hard done ridiculously fast. Also, is a bit too humble.
Neelix--Skills: None, save lying and shirking duties. Flaws: Intensely annoying, pathological liar, lazy (at least by Federation standards), is incompetent at everything he says he's competent at, brags about his nonexistent prowess.
Kes--Skills: Mary Sue powers. Flaws: Is "too curious", fits all the traits of a classic Mary Sue. Is partially responsible for the bad First Contact with species 8472.
Janeway--Skills: Uncertain, but seems to involve being a caricature of third-wave feminism while hanging around a chiseled, vaguely ethnic dude. Flaws: Murdered an officer, attempted genocide, committed high treason, threatened to torture an officer.
Chakotay--Skills: Ostensibly a guerrilla leader but rarely shows signs of such skills, otherwise hangs around being vaguely ethnic and wooden. Flaws: Is more wooden than an oak tree, vaguely ethnic heritage often makes him offensively racist.
Tuvok--Skills: Competent security officer, generally sensible in other areas. Flaws: Nobody EVER listens to him.
The holodoc--Skills: Brilliant physician and expert surgeon, talented pathologist and neurologist. Is a hologram with an AI. Is the most interesting character on the show by a long shot. Flaws: can be abrasive, tends to be the Butt Monkey for bad jokes in early seasons.
Seven of TRIBBLE--Skills: Whatever the plot demands. Is a good role model for people with mild autism. Flaws: Is basically there for the fanservice, is a massive waste of Jeri Ryan's talents.
Torres--Skills: Grease monkey. Flaws: Is unable to identify horse manure with a 24th century scanning device. Her character changes depending on whether she's being written as a Strong Female Character or as an unenlightened woman who has seen the light of Janeway the Perfect.
Harry Kim--Skills: Vague potential, getting killed. Flaws: Due to Executive Meddling and Executive Incompetence is never promoted and always acts like a moron.
Tom Paris--Skills: All. Commando, field medic, ace pilot, expert engineer, once designed a shuttle whose speed has a divide-by-zero error, survival expert, brilliant space tactician, expert diplomat, holoprogrammer, even a decent cook. Flaws: Can be a jerk in early seasons, is never as omnicompetent when it's one of his episodes; he's only "allowed" to be the ultimate everything when someone else is supposed to be in the limelight and needs something ridiculously hard done ridiculously fast. Also, is a bit too humble.
Neelix--Skills: None, save lying and shirking duties. Flaws: Intensely annoying, pathological liar, lazy (at least by Federation standards), is incompetent at everything he says he's competent at, brags about his nonexistent prowess.
Kes--Skills: Mary Sue powers. Flaws: Is "too curious", fits all the traits of a classic Mary Sue. Is partially responsible for the bad First Contact with species 8472.
I think that's everyone...
You owe me a clean laptop. I spit coffee all over mine while reading the above. Might be the funniest thing I've read all week. Thank you very much for the humor. It is greatly appreciated.
EDIT: Oh yeah, almost forgot. HAIL BA'AL! You earned it in spades with this one.
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
You owe me a clean laptop. I spit coffee all over mine while reading the above. Might be the funniest thing I've read all week. Thank you very much for the humor. It is greatly appreciated.
EDIT: Oh yeah, almost forgot. HAIL BA'AL! You earned it in spades with this one.
<magnanimous dictator voice> Your Poster of the Year thanks you, lowly peon. </magnanimous dictator voice>
So stop projecting your own petty bigotry onto others and maybe take a nice long look at yourself in the mirror.
I personally have to wonder why you have a fondness for omnicidal extradimensional aliens myself. Sure you like to claim they're "misunderstood", but your evidence for that is laughable. Especially since it hinges on your opinion of the writers. IE you disregard creator's intent because you think the writers are hacks.
Personally I think you should take your own advice.
I personally have to wonder why you have a fondness for omnicidal extradimensional aliens myself. Sure you like to claim they're "misunderstood", but your evidence for that is laughable. Especially since it hinges on your opinion of the writers. IE you disregard creator's intent because you think the writers are hacks.
Personally I think you should take your own advice.
Hey, dude, way to oversimplify...
On the Borg VS. Undine debate, I never once said that the Undine are good people; in fact, I have explicitly stated that their society is racist, xenophobic, and stagnated. However, they are a society of individuals, which INHERENTLY makes them better than the Borg, which is one insane mind with trillions of bodies. Simply because they are individuals, there MUST be some Undine who are more nasty than the ones we first met...and some that are more congenial.
Since the Borg is one, insane mind, it cannot be reasoned with, and there really is no point in even trying, since no connected drone is ever going to show a dissenting opinion.
Personally, I think that you're wearing blinders the size of Texas, both for the obvious fact that the Undine are individuals and the Borg is an omnicidal hive entity, and the slightly more obvious fact that not one person involved with Voyager could write his or her way out of a box.
You know, it just occurred to me that, given how VOY was basically TNG-lite, well ... nobody ever listened to Worf, either. He and Tuvok have the same staff position.
She made a major mistake. She was always answering EVERY single distress call, and falling for the same lure every time. We received an Ocampa distress call, and were attacked by Kazon. We received Hirogen distress call, and were attacked by Borg. DUH! But she still fell for it EVERY TIME! Sorry, but you get no sympathy from me. If, IF you choose to investigate another distress call, you had better have your shields up, and your weapons fully-powered. When, not if, WHEN the distress call turns out to be yet another fishing pole waiting for some curious idiot to ambush, you had batter be prepared to start shooting.
Sorry, you've got the wrong end of the stick, linda. In real life maritime laws require ships to respond to distress signals, and sending a false distress call is actually considered a war crime under the Geneva Conventions (because it makes people not want to respond to distress signals). Seeing as it had its origins in a human military force, Starfleet very likely has the same rule on the books. That one's on Janeway's enemies, not her.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Sorry, you've got the wrong end of the stick, linda. In real life maritime laws require ships to respond to distress signals, and sending a false distress call is actually considered a war crime under the Geneva Conventions (because it makes people not want to respond to distress signals). Seeing as it had its origins in a human military force, Starfleet very likely has the same rule on the books. That one's on Janeway's enemies, not her.
On the other paw, maritime law doesn't require that you answer all distress calls with all defenses lowered, either. If a Coast Guard cutter's captain has reason to believe that a given distress call may be a trap, he is certainly permitted to make sure the deck gun is manned while responding.
After the third fake distress call, one would think it would have occurred to Janeway to go to at least yellow alert (energize shields, stand by weapons) when responding. Of course, a large part of the problem seems to lie with the producers, who apparently wanted to make the sort of show where the episode could be aired in any order at all and still make sense - a very '60s paradigm for a modern TV show. Therefore, nobody could actually learn anything from their experiences, as that would place the episodes in a definite order.
I don't like VOY's Harry Kim (the STO version is actually pretty cool) because he's a big dumb waste of space; in fact, the writers and directors of Voyager repeatedly told Garret Wang to express nothing but Dull Surprise and made him ask all of the stupid questions to ram it into the viewers' faces that it's DA FUTURE!!! over and f*cking over.
Nothing to do with him being vaguely Asian. I would find VOY Harry Kim boring and pointless if he were black, white, some random alien, female, intersex, some alien gender, or otherwise anything but what he is.
Same with Janeway; I'd find her a psychopathic Mary Sue with poor leadership skills and the tactical ability of a brain-damaged gerbil if she were male, too. Hell, I'd find her a terrible Captain if she were played by David Tennant; her actions are just too vile.
So stop projecting your own petty bigotry onto others and maybe take a nice long look at yourself in the mirror.
I remain empathetic to the concerns of my community, but do me a favor and lay off the god damn name calling and petty remarks. It will get you nowhere.
I must admit, respect points to Trendy for laying down the law like that.
Gonna take worffan's and rewrite it as it should had been. If the writers could be bloody competent and consider that people develop and improve as they experience new stuff.
Janeway--Skills: moral leadership, stickler for protocol, tries to do the right thing by Federation Law.
Flaws: Forgets that Federation law applies in an environment where survival of the fittest isn't necessary. Takes things too personally without thinking of the consequences until it is too late. Gets too narrow-focused on issues without taking a step back. Not a strategist. They constantly hit the reset button on Janeway... she'd learn her mistakes by the end of the episode only to repeat it later such as not having her finger on the shield/weapon button when new ships approach.
Chakotay--Skills: advanced tactical training resulting in guerrilla leader skills but rarely is given the chance to demonstrate. Is creative and when leads, thinks of interesting strategies. Holds the moral high ground on Voyager.
Flaws: Token leader, not often given a chance to lead. I suspect the crew is actually more loyal to him than to Janeway as when Janeway gets out of control, he brings her back in line (this applies after the equinox incident). They had the potential to turn this man into a psychologist of sorts but didn't really. He could had been the man the crew goes to talk to, when they have problems on a more regular basis.
Tuvok--Skills: Competent security officer, generally sensible in other areas.
Flaws: Nobody EVER listens to him.
(Bang on, not gonna adjust this but want to comment) I suspect the largely human crew is a bit racist here. They ignore Tuvok and actually tried to stage a mutiny when he was in command. Tuvok has offered pretty sound advice which was rejected. The only officer who seems to take his advice seriously was Chakotay.
The holodoc--Skills: Brilliant physician and expert surgeon, talented pathologist and neurologist. Is a hologram with an AI. Excellent learning skills.
Flaws: can be abrasive, tends to attract a lot of negativity with his attitude. Doesn't always know when to shut up. Extremely full of himself. Probably the only character to actually receive proper character development over the series arc
Seven of Nine--Skills: Highly intelligent. Excellent in personal combat. Science and Engineering skills are above par.
Flaws: Social skills sucks. Thinks of the greater good without considering who's going to get hurt. Thinks too much about numbers. Not advisable to have her in a command position. This character, like the doctor has received some character development but she tended to be used too much to save the day.
Torres--Skills: Grease monkey.
Flaws: Temper makes her unable to think things through and tends to make her make stupid mistakes she shouldn't make. Could be from an abusive childhood. There was promise here to develop her character, to use her temper to generate issues and gradually work on it. It should had been done over the series arc rather than one or two episodes focusing on her, just bits here and there plus her falling in love with Tom sometimes seems to take huge jumps rather than gradual.
Harry Kim--Skills: Excellent manager. Can think of creative solutions. Problem-solver. Can think on his feet.
Flaws: Unable to take criticism, failure makes him moody and sulky. Does not know how to use a condom. This character was meant to play the role of the naive kid fresh out of the academy. Rarely is he improved, showing wisdom. It tends to be in jumps. Sometimes he'd be too confident and other times too green. It's not consistent
Tom Paris--Skills: Special Forces. Excellent pilot, can fly anything, hotwire anything and can treat battlefield injuries. His cooking skills are excellent and he has excellent memory retention. He's the guy you send in for crisis situations when you need the lowest number of troops deployed.
Flaws: cocky. Never used as a teacher to train the other officers in flying, medics and other stuff special forces should know. Can get a wee bit obsessive. He's the admiral's kid. There's nothing mentioned on why he has all those awesome skills. I mean, why didn't someone go "Hmm, Paris can cook, can fight, fly, hotwire stuff and can treat injuries on the battlefield. He's confident and clearly has command training. Hey Paris, are you Special Ops?" There was a huge potential right there to develop that right there. Little bit later, Paris could sit down with the Captain and say "Sorry Cap, I was sent to infiltrate the Marquis and yeah, got caught. Couldn't exactly shoot my way out of there. We had to let the charges proceed and not cover it up. I was supposed to disable Voyager when you caught up with the Marquis and get myself back in their ranks. Caretaker screwed this up. So yeah... could I work with the security teams and get them to be much better trained? Tuvok's decent but he doesn't have the combat training I got"
Neelix--Skills: Resourceful. Excellent at talking and getting agreements. Has a flair for diplomacy.
Flaws: Oversells himself and Voyager, potentially creating difficulties for the crew. Must keep an eye on him to prevent him from getting ahead of himself. He's supposed to be comic relief but never really was used that way. A good character development would had been the Doctor saying "OKAY I'VE HAD ENOUGH!" and proceeds to show Neelix how to actually cook and give him a crash course in human biology and how his food keeps sending patients to the Doctor. It'd had been awesome having those two actors doing a duet, both of them having it out. Neelix fed up with the Doctor's attitude and the Doctor fed up with Neelix's bad cooking. Maybe on a planet where Janeway sends them both to find food, edible food for the ship's crew, they crash and Voyager is driven off for the moment.
Kes--Skills: Telepathic, excellent memory retention. Easy to teach and train.
Flaws: naive. weak-willed. lacks confidence and this can lead to issues. Perhaps this weakness led to the misunderstanding between the Federation and the Undine.
Kes is sort of a Mary Sue. She's supposed to be sweet, curious, exploring and childlike, growing up on the show. The actress did an amazing job at this. However again, reset button was used too much and hindered her a bit.
Voyager had potential to be an excellent show. The actors were pretty good, but the problem was the writers kept hitting the reset button. Torres could have had it out with Janeway complaining about constant repairs and how if you keep fixing the ship outside of drydock, eventually the cracks can't be repaired anymore. It's kind of like biology, too much surgery and you get this mesh under your skin that makes further surgery difficult. Security crews could had been better trained by both Paris and Tuvok to do more than just shoot. I mean if I was getting boarded a lot, I'd had changed the uniform of my security officers to have a retractable blade, a sidearm and a rifle. I'd build in internal automated defences. All crew members would be trained and constantly put to work on how to fight and how to repair the ship. They'd be given medic training, close quarters training and field repair work. With Seven of Nine, I'd had then given the crew nanoprobes to quickly repair battle injuries and repel Borg assimilation nanoprobes. I'd had kept the Borg technology and when people asked, I'd reply "The Borg tried to assimilate us. They failed." That'd actually convince a lot of bad guys to go away. I'd expand hydroponics and train a portion of the crew in how to harvest the fields.
I suspect the crew is actually more loyal to him than to Janeway as when Janeway gets out of control, he brings her back in line (this applies after the equinox incident). They had the potential to turn this man into a psychologist of sorts but didn't really. He could had been the man the crew goes to talk to, when they have problems on a more regular basis.
What? Have the man fulfill the actual role of an XO? Madness!!
Pity that if I invented time-travel technology, I'd be busy fixing other flaws in history, and might not get around to having you sit down and lecture Berman and Braga (and the VOY writing staff) at length before the first episode was finalized...
Comments
Or insane?
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
Or a mad scientist/TRIBBLE obsessed with creating Cthonian genetic abominations?
I loved Babylon 5 for the story line. My wife hated it as there where some episodes that had 3 stories going on in them (the shows story, the seasons story, and the series story arc).
I agree that a new Star Trek show should be planed out from beginning to end for constantly.
Douglas MacArthur - Quote on the dedication plaque of the U.S.S. Ranger NCC-97332-A Armitage class Fleet Heavy Strike Wing Escort.
Hey, Tuvix was a complete failure! He didn't even dissolve Harry Kim in flaming poison pollen bile!
"--she said, 'How can you watch that Babylon 5 TRIBBLE? It takes five years for something to pay off that you saw in year one!' And I said, 'That's the point!'"
Do you not like harry kim or somthing?
P.S: I apologize for my last post, I was rather unhappy. But I still hate Tom Paris
Grand Master Thotok, son of Koloth, I.K.S. Sompek==Dahar Master Shanara, I.K.S. Balth'Quv
Admiral R'Tath V'Tirex, R.R.W. Dhael Glohha'enh==Commander Ta'eth Korval, R.R.W Hachae ch'Rhian==Admiral Vranuk, R.R.W Delevhas
My character Tsin'xing
Grand Master Thotok, son of Koloth, I.K.S. Sompek==Dahar Master Shanara, I.K.S. Balth'Quv
Admiral R'Tath V'Tirex, R.R.W. Dhael Glohha'enh==Commander Ta'eth Korval, R.R.W Hachae ch'Rhian==Admiral Vranuk, R.R.W Delevhas
Sequel series that got massive executive meddling and was cancelled before the pilot aired. Drakh drop bioweapons on Earth, Earthforce dispatches the EAS Excalibur to look for a cure.
They've got 13 episodes available on DVD, though the episode order is pretty scrambled.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
My character Tsin'xing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SIZcDWKyw0
She did whatever she had to do to get her crew home despite the situation she was in.
"Hah! You are doomed! You're only armed with that pathetic excuse for a musical instrument!!!" *the Savage Beast moments before Lonnehart the Bard used music to soothe him... then beat him to death with his Fat Lute*
He has a strange, racist hatred for Kim. Not too dissimilar to his sexist hatred of the person this thread is about, actually.
Actually, numbskull, you're completely wrong.
I don't like VOY's Harry Kim (the STO version is actually pretty cool) because he's a big dumb waste of space; in fact, the writers and directors of Voyager repeatedly told Garret Wang to express nothing but Dull Surprise and made him ask all of the stupid questions to ram it into the viewers' faces that it's DA FUTURE!!! over and f*cking over.
Nothing to do with him being vaguely Asian. I would find VOY Harry Kim boring and pointless if he were black, white, some random alien, female, intersex, some alien gender, or otherwise anything but what he is.
Same with Janeway; I'd find her a psychopathic Mary Sue with poor leadership skills and the tactical ability of a brain-damaged gerbil if she were male, too. Hell, I'd find her a terrible Captain if she were played by David Tennant; her actions are just too vile.
So stop projecting your own petty bigotry onto others and maybe take a nice long look at yourself in the mirror.
And of course, EVERY time Voyager was attacked, Vaneway simply stood there, and repeatedly radioed them to stop attacking us, stop attacking us, stop attacking us. No. The best way to overpower a trickle of resistance is with a flood of brute force.
My Ship Builds: USS Conqueror, HMS Victorious, HMS Concord, ISS Queen Elizabeth, Black Widow III
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That deppends on personality , not everyone is Sisko , or for that matter Picard ... is like that line where Q gets punched in the face by Sisko , and he says :"Picard never hit me" where the answer is :" I'm not Picard"
Janeway is curious , helpfull , and she allsow tried to get friendly with all species , cause they ware afterall outnumbered , alone in the Delta quadrant. I think , for the situation she was in , she acted better than others would . She got home ...
Allsow you look at the captain , but the leader of a crew is there to combine the abillities of his crew to bring harmony and get the best outcome , you should not look at only one person , you should look at all the Voyager's crew , everyone had its role , Seven was stubborn and intelligent and cruel at some point , Harry was useless w/o the others , Tuvok was glacial and logic , B'ellana was agressive , Neelix was high , The Doctor was curious , resourfull , funny , and selfish , Tom was Billy the Kid , but the combination of their "skills" got them home.
Well, let's go man-by-man, hmm?
Janeway--Skills: Uncertain, but seems to involve being a caricature of third-wave feminism while hanging around a chiseled, vaguely ethnic dude. Flaws: Murdered an officer, attempted genocide, committed high treason, threatened to torture an officer.
Chakotay--Skills: Ostensibly a guerrilla leader but rarely shows signs of such skills, otherwise hangs around being vaguely ethnic and wooden. Flaws: Is more wooden than an oak tree, vaguely ethnic heritage often makes him offensively racist.
Tuvok--Skills: Competent security officer, generally sensible in other areas. Flaws: Nobody EVER listens to him.
The holodoc--Skills: Brilliant physician and expert surgeon, talented pathologist and neurologist. Is a hologram with an AI. Is the most interesting character on the show by a long shot. Flaws: can be abrasive, tends to be the Butt Monkey for bad jokes in early seasons.
Seven of TRIBBLE--Skills: Whatever the plot demands. Is a good role model for people with mild autism. Flaws: Is basically there for the fanservice, is a massive waste of Jeri Ryan's talents.
Torres--Skills: Grease monkey. Flaws: Is unable to identify horse manure with a 24th century scanning device. Her character changes depending on whether she's being written as a Strong Female Character or as an unenlightened woman who has seen the light of Janeway the Perfect.
Harry Kim--Skills: Vague potential, getting killed. Flaws: Due to Executive Meddling and Executive Incompetence is never promoted and always acts like a moron.
Tom Paris--Skills: All. Commando, field medic, ace pilot, expert engineer, once designed a shuttle whose speed has a divide-by-zero error, survival expert, brilliant space tactician, expert diplomat, holoprogrammer, even a decent cook. Flaws: Can be a jerk in early seasons, is never as omnicompetent when it's one of his episodes; he's only "allowed" to be the ultimate everything when someone else is supposed to be in the limelight and needs something ridiculously hard done ridiculously fast. Also, is a bit too humble.
Neelix--Skills: None, save lying and shirking duties. Flaws: Intensely annoying, pathological liar, lazy (at least by Federation standards), is incompetent at everything he says he's competent at, brags about his nonexistent prowess.
Kes--Skills: Mary Sue powers. Flaws: Is "too curious", fits all the traits of a classic Mary Sue. Is partially responsible for the bad First Contact with species 8472.
I think that's everyone...
EDIT: Oh yeah, almost forgot. HAIL BA'AL! You earned it in spades with this one.
<magnanimous dictator voice> Your Poster of the Year thanks you, lowly peon. </magnanimous dictator voice>
Thanks, man. I do try.
And all Hail Ba'al!
Personally I think you should take your own advice.
My character Tsin'xing
Hey, dude, way to oversimplify...
On the Borg VS. Undine debate, I never once said that the Undine are good people; in fact, I have explicitly stated that their society is racist, xenophobic, and stagnated. However, they are a society of individuals, which INHERENTLY makes them better than the Borg, which is one insane mind with trillions of bodies. Simply because they are individuals, there MUST be some Undine who are more nasty than the ones we first met...and some that are more congenial.
Since the Borg is one, insane mind, it cannot be reasoned with, and there really is no point in even trying, since no connected drone is ever going to show a dissenting opinion.
Personally, I think that you're wearing blinders the size of Texas, both for the obvious fact that the Undine are individuals and the Borg is an omnicidal hive entity, and the slightly more obvious fact that not one person involved with Voyager could write his or her way out of a box.
Sorry, you've got the wrong end of the stick, linda. In real life maritime laws require ships to respond to distress signals, and sending a false distress call is actually considered a war crime under the Geneva Conventions (because it makes people not want to respond to distress signals). Seeing as it had its origins in a human military force, Starfleet very likely has the same rule on the books. That one's on Janeway's enemies, not her.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Check out https://unitedfederationofpla.net/s/
After the third fake distress call, one would think it would have occurred to Janeway to go to at least yellow alert (energize shields, stand by weapons) when responding. Of course, a large part of the problem seems to lie with the producers, who apparently wanted to make the sort of show where the episode could be aired in any order at all and still make sense - a very '60s paradigm for a modern TV show. Therefore, nobody could actually learn anything from their experiences, as that would place the episodes in a definite order.
Or in other words, 'Poor, dumb Harry'. :P
Janeway--Skills: moral leadership, stickler for protocol, tries to do the right thing by Federation Law.
Flaws: Forgets that Federation law applies in an environment where survival of the fittest isn't necessary. Takes things too personally without thinking of the consequences until it is too late. Gets too narrow-focused on issues without taking a step back. Not a strategist.
They constantly hit the reset button on Janeway... she'd learn her mistakes by the end of the episode only to repeat it later such as not having her finger on the shield/weapon button when new ships approach.
Chakotay--Skills: advanced tactical training resulting in guerrilla leader skills but rarely is given the chance to demonstrate. Is creative and when leads, thinks of interesting strategies. Holds the moral high ground on Voyager.
Flaws: Token leader, not often given a chance to lead. I suspect the crew is actually more loyal to him than to Janeway as when Janeway gets out of control, he brings her back in line (this applies after the equinox incident).
They had the potential to turn this man into a psychologist of sorts but didn't really. He could had been the man the crew goes to talk to, when they have problems on a more regular basis.
Tuvok--Skills: Competent security officer, generally sensible in other areas.
Flaws: Nobody EVER listens to him.
(Bang on, not gonna adjust this but want to comment) I suspect the largely human crew is a bit racist here. They ignore Tuvok and actually tried to stage a mutiny when he was in command. Tuvok has offered pretty sound advice which was rejected. The only officer who seems to take his advice seriously was Chakotay.
The holodoc--Skills: Brilliant physician and expert surgeon, talented pathologist and neurologist. Is a hologram with an AI. Excellent learning skills.
Flaws: can be abrasive, tends to attract a lot of negativity with his attitude. Doesn't always know when to shut up. Extremely full of himself.
Probably the only character to actually receive proper character development over the series arc
Seven of Nine--Skills: Highly intelligent. Excellent in personal combat. Science and Engineering skills are above par.
Flaws: Social skills sucks. Thinks of the greater good without considering who's going to get hurt. Thinks too much about numbers. Not advisable to have her in a command position.
This character, like the doctor has received some character development but she tended to be used too much to save the day.
Torres--Skills: Grease monkey.
Flaws: Temper makes her unable to think things through and tends to make her make stupid mistakes she shouldn't make. Could be from an abusive childhood.
There was promise here to develop her character, to use her temper to generate issues and gradually work on it. It should had been done over the series arc rather than one or two episodes focusing on her, just bits here and there plus her falling in love with Tom sometimes seems to take huge jumps rather than gradual.
Harry Kim--Skills: Excellent manager. Can think of creative solutions. Problem-solver. Can think on his feet.
Flaws: Unable to take criticism, failure makes him moody and sulky. Does not know how to use a condom.
This character was meant to play the role of the naive kid fresh out of the academy. Rarely is he improved, showing wisdom. It tends to be in jumps. Sometimes he'd be too confident and other times too green. It's not consistent
Tom Paris--Skills: Special Forces. Excellent pilot, can fly anything, hotwire anything and can treat battlefield injuries. His cooking skills are excellent and he has excellent memory retention. He's the guy you send in for crisis situations when you need the lowest number of troops deployed.
Flaws: cocky. Never used as a teacher to train the other officers in flying, medics and other stuff special forces should know. Can get a wee bit obsessive.
He's the admiral's kid. There's nothing mentioned on why he has all those awesome skills. I mean, why didn't someone go "Hmm, Paris can cook, can fight, fly, hotwire stuff and can treat injuries on the battlefield. He's confident and clearly has command training. Hey Paris, are you Special Ops?" There was a huge potential right there to develop that right there. Little bit later, Paris could sit down with the Captain and say "Sorry Cap, I was sent to infiltrate the Marquis and yeah, got caught. Couldn't exactly shoot my way out of there. We had to let the charges proceed and not cover it up. I was supposed to disable Voyager when you caught up with the Marquis and get myself back in their ranks. Caretaker screwed this up. So yeah... could I work with the security teams and get them to be much better trained? Tuvok's decent but he doesn't have the combat training I got"
Neelix--Skills: Resourceful. Excellent at talking and getting agreements. Has a flair for diplomacy.
Flaws: Oversells himself and Voyager, potentially creating difficulties for the crew. Must keep an eye on him to prevent him from getting ahead of himself.
He's supposed to be comic relief but never really was used that way. A good character development would had been the Doctor saying "OKAY I'VE HAD ENOUGH!" and proceeds to show Neelix how to actually cook and give him a crash course in human biology and how his food keeps sending patients to the Doctor. It'd had been awesome having those two actors doing a duet, both of them having it out. Neelix fed up with the Doctor's attitude and the Doctor fed up with Neelix's bad cooking. Maybe on a planet where Janeway sends them both to find food, edible food for the ship's crew, they crash and Voyager is driven off for the moment.
Kes--Skills: Telepathic, excellent memory retention. Easy to teach and train.
Flaws: naive. weak-willed. lacks confidence and this can lead to issues. Perhaps this weakness led to the misunderstanding between the Federation and the Undine.
Kes is sort of a Mary Sue. She's supposed to be sweet, curious, exploring and childlike, growing up on the show. The actress did an amazing job at this. However again, reset button was used too much and hindered her a bit.
Voyager had potential to be an excellent show. The actors were pretty good, but the problem was the writers kept hitting the reset button. Torres could have had it out with Janeway complaining about constant repairs and how if you keep fixing the ship outside of drydock, eventually the cracks can't be repaired anymore. It's kind of like biology, too much surgery and you get this mesh under your skin that makes further surgery difficult. Security crews could had been better trained by both Paris and Tuvok to do more than just shoot. I mean if I was getting boarded a lot, I'd had changed the uniform of my security officers to have a retractable blade, a sidearm and a rifle. I'd build in internal automated defences. All crew members would be trained and constantly put to work on how to fight and how to repair the ship. They'd be given medic training, close quarters training and field repair work. With Seven of Nine, I'd had then given the crew nanoprobes to quickly repair battle injuries and repel Borg assimilation nanoprobes. I'd had kept the Borg technology and when people asked, I'd reply "The Borg tried to assimilate us. They failed." That'd actually convince a lot of bad guys to go away. I'd expand hydroponics and train a portion of the crew in how to harvest the fields.
Pity that if I invented time-travel technology, I'd be busy fixing other flaws in history, and might not get around to having you sit down and lecture Berman and Braga (and the VOY writing staff) at length before the first episode was finalized...