guys, stop this blah about the gear, its bull****. You DO NOT need Elite, RP gear etc. to get 10k. Once you got your level 50, you have enough basic gear and equip plus enough EC to buy the rest you need, to build a ship good enough WITHOUT any RP, fleet or orther Elite gear.
And with about 10k you are ready to play advanced and get all the stuff you need.
The point is, you have to THINK a bit about what you are doing, maybe you have to READ some guides, or may be you must not be to PROUD TO ASK.
Once again, the problem is not the game, the problem are not other players, the problem is not the gear, the problem are those, who do not have the patience.
"First char, fresh level 50, no idea how the skillsystem works, but ohhh now i can play STFs, OHH there are different difficulty levels, ohhh, i am king, i dont need to try normal first and see how the things work, I want everything, i want it now, i want it here, i play ELITE because I AM ELITE"
Be honest, isnt that the state of mind many many players have?
I am posting a log at the end of a STF run, what do i get.
1. Most of the time, No reply at all.
2. very often things like "**** you", "**** of", "TRIBBLE" to call out the "polite" replys
3. rare, very rare somebody asks how to get better and what he / she can to to improve.
yes, the CombatLog Reader is a tough tool, its tough, because it shows in hard cold numbers what a team was about, what YOU are about. But do you think it helps to blame the tool, to blame reality, or would it perhaps be more helpfull to step back and think about what YOU should change on your setup to improve yourself.
Ok, if you say this is my way to play it, nobody is mad about it, its a game, have fun with it in your way, but STAY AWAY from things you are not ready for.
Or do you take part in the IndyCar Series with a bicycle and afterwards cry and whine and blame others for beeing overrun?
Blaming reality for beeing real?
Would you please be so kind as to explain what you mean here? If his way is antique, how does the "new" way work? It sounds to me like he's doing it the way the walkthrough on the wiki says.
I'm not being sarky, this is a sincere inquiry.
I'm like, one of those 5-6K DPS guys, and trying hard to up my game here. I've been working hard on improving my build since I came back to STO, but it sounds like my techniques need some work, too.
Threads like this almost make me want to just go play something else, just because they seem to be saying I'm hopelessly effed...
As of late 2012 its easier and faster to do 2/3 (with more than 8k dps each) or 4/1 (teamdps not that great) and just kill one side then the other (with 2/3 it can happen that they go down nearly at the same time), so your heals, dps and everything else is combined. So waiting for one side would mean at least one player is bound on the other side, instead of having all (dps and all) together.
If you need help, you can link your skillplanner-build (maybe better per PM)and we can help you. Sometimes little tweaks bring big improvements.
Some wiki walkthroughs are still from S4/5, so some are outdated.
And in his case, he saw that there was far more dps than needed and still complained that they didnt do it like the (outdated) book said, so he is partially to blame for the later... comment ("your damage suckz" is more a statement than an insult tbh)
Would you please be so kind as to explain what you mean here? If his way is antique, how does the "new" way work? It sounds to me like he's doing it the way the walkthrough on the wiki says.
Checking the STF walkthroughs on the wiki, they were all last updated Sept 2013.
(For reference, that's before Fleet cores, before extra DOff slots, and before Vul Locators.)
PUGs haven't needed 10% in (pre-DR) ISE for at least a year.
do you have a link for this... every time i have parsed it has recorded all damage in the instance.....I was stood at the staging area in New rom watching a player cause/receive damage in the mountain pass....
Every time I have parsed KSE/KSA, one side has always received different results than the other. If you're on probe duty lurking in the center, you may pick up both sides.
do you have a link for this... every time i have parsed it has recorded all damage in the instance.....I was stood at the staging area in New rom watching a player cause/receive damage in the mountain pass....
You will get some information, but most is getting lost over distance. If you are more than 10km from together, the loss begins, and in ksa its possible half the information is lost (so only half damage is recorded).
Though if someone only has 2k, he will most likely not have 5k real^^
Just because someone does loads of dps doesnt mean he's an elitist a**hole same as someone isnt a stupid idiot who doesnt apply himself just because he isnt doing a whole lot of dps.
We litterally spend *hours* of our time just last weekend to help some ppl get the right build told them how to fly and when to use which ability. Doesnt mean they immediately spiked to 50k dps+ but they had fun we had fun and they sure as hell did learn a lot.
So could we pls stop this dps chans vs noob stupidity? There is no conflict and no need to start oke or imagine one just because there are some bad apples on the dps tree. There are propably at least as much arrogant pricks ok the non-dps side as there are on the dps chans. Most are very friendly and helpful and dont really deserve so be put in the same basket with a few bad ones.
Just take any channel say pestf or NoP public service... Just because someone in there wasnt nice to you doesnt mean the 3k+ rest of the ppl in there are too.
This whole thing is just blown way out of proportion and is nothing more than a lazy generalization.
Which is the problem Cryptic introduced. Some players just aren't good enough for advanced and need to get carried by 1/2 DPS people. It's not that good a system. There should be a tiered reward system for BNPs. Or perhaps better, a rep project to allow lower skilled players to convert a certain amount of marks into a BNP to then allow them to get the better gear without potentially TRIBBLE up the advanced or elite for other people.
there used to be a tiered reward for BNP's. know what? to use someone elses signature quote, cryptic nerfed it until it bled.
Ah heck. I have no idea the actual DPS I do, but I've been insulted before. Just ignore it and hide your build in the Privacy settings.
I'm a Sci running LRSV with Rom Plasma beams, Plasma Torps, Borg Weapon set, Aegis as well as a host of power boost consoles etc and skills geared for DoT/AoE/Control/Debuff and Tanking. This is what I find best for me, especially when running public STF's as most often there isn't anyone else doing that sort of thing. Being able to slow, hold and enfeeble the enemy is a great tactic in any situation.
However, what is key to remember that the majority don't care for DPS, they're playing for fun and most of them don't want DPS rammed down their throats. If someone joins Advanced and has no clue, they usually get a shout when someone notices them trying to take out the wrong side in the Borg STF's or other such thing. Point is, be helpful, not arrogant, especially in Public PvE.
The OP is right in asking for a bit of civility, so don't have a go at him because he didn't like the insult! Increasingly as these guys realise they can get away with saying whatever they want without consequence, they get more and more malicious. Whether it's trolling in ESD/DS9/QWWL or being part of the uber-DPS raging crew, there's no-one there to issue sanction and people shouldn't have to resort to 'Ignore' everytime insults are thrown, no matter for the reason.
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
We all know pugging is a gamble, so nobody should be surprised about some unknown / pugs performance.
We also know some people are here to just have fun in their OWN WAY.
They clearly don't want anyone's help and take offense when their illusion is vanquished.
The rule should be if your in a pug KEEP YOUR PORT SHUT.
Don't offer help and don't send them DPS scores.
People do listen better when they come to you asking for help.
No, the rule should be...
"We also know some people are here to just have fun in their OWN WAY." is fine if you're off playing by yourself. If you join a queue with other players, then you need to be prepared for that content.
I think I'm going to start the "200,000+ DPS Channel". Get a head start.
After all, since people are breaking the 100,000 DPS mark, is 200,000 DPS so far-fetched?
Then someone can start the "I WIN Channel" for those l337s who only have to mash the spacebar once to destroy everything in range (until Cryptic ups the HP & Shield NPC numbers again).
there used to be a tiered reward for BNP's. know what? to use someone elses signature quote, cryptic nerfed it until it bled.
On the other note of BNP, APC etc. You can get all of these in the Daily/Hourly Rep project box. You can get Rep items without having run even 1 Adv/Elite STF.
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
"We also know some people are here to just have fun in their OWN WAY." is fine if you're off playing by yourself. If you join a queue with other players, then you need to be prepared for that content.
Although what you say is correct, but slightly misguided, the majority play and learn through trial and error. So insulting a first-timer in an Adv/Elite queue is only going to put most off bothering to try again. Expecting people to 'run before they can walk' is not the way forward.
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
I will never understand these silly dps is bad debates. Considering 99% of the content is pew pew, dps races why would you not want to download the combat log parser and try to improve?
I agree with virus, if you want to run crazy builds with low dps keep it in normal. You don't need rep gear. The minute you run advanced pugs it's not just you, there are four or more other players trying to have fun. Bringing a build that is subpar and causes a mission to fail is evidence that you don't care about anyone else but yourself. It's pretty selfish behavior.
Though there's no real info in game about how to properly put together a good build, there's plenty of people willing to help in game and in the forums. I try to help anyone that asks.
Although what you say is correct, but slightly misguided, the majority play and learn through trial and error. So insulting a first-timer in an Adv/Elite queue is only going to put most off bothering to try again. Expecting people to 'run before they can walk' is not the way forward.
Tom comes along, he's new to the game. He's not entirely sure of what he's doing. Is he out of luck? Are there perhaps folks that have some knowledge here and there on things? Could he say that he's interested in doing something, but he's not sure about whether his build is enough? Could he ask about various strategies/tactics that people use to do the content? Is most of that already going to be out there so that he wouldn't even need to ask...he'd only have to ask for any clarification on points he may not be sure on?
It's not a problem of expecting people to run before they can walk...it's a problem of people expecting that they can run before they walk. The information is there...they can walk on over and learn to run.
They've got all the leveling they've done - all the content they've done - they've got hitting up the basics of running the Normal versions - they've got all the information that others have gathered - they've got all the help so many folks are willing to offer...
...they're the only ones expecting that they can run without being able to walk - everybody else figures that with everything out there, they would have figured out both the walking and having a good idea of how to run, eh?
And please don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about all the folks with their personal expectations of what folks should do - I'm talking about meeting the content requirements. Queuing for the chance to succeed instead of queuing to fail. I don't give a rat's TRIBBLE about the folks and all their personal requirements - wanting folks to do 2-3x the required DPS or wanting to wham - bam through the content as fast as possible because they're grinding away. I'm just talking about meeting those basic requirements that give folks a decent chance at completing the content...just being prepared for that, and all of that info is out there. Hell, the DPS folks that people like to rage about provided that info for folks. Yeah, while some of them are off doing nearly ten times the required amount - they still tried to help folks out with those minimum requirements.
Tom comes along, he's new to the game. He's not entirely sure of what he's doing. Is he out of luck? Are there perhaps folks that have some knowledge here and there on things? Could he say that he's interested in doing something, but he's not sure about whether his build is enough? Could he ask about various strategies/tactics that people use to do the content? Is most of that already going to be out there so that he wouldn't even need to ask...he'd only have to ask for any clarification on points he may not be sure on?
It's not a problem of expecting people to run before they can walk...it's a problem of people expecting that they can run before they walk. The information is there...they can walk on over and learn to run.
They've got all the leveling they've done - all the content they've done - they've got hitting up the basics of running the Normal versions - they've got all the information that others have gathered - they've got all the help so many folks are willing to offer...
...they're the only ones expecting that they can run without being able to walk - everybody else figures that with everything out there, they would have figured out both the walking and having a good idea of how to run, eh?
And please don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about all the folks with their personal expectations of what folks should do - I'm talking about meeting the content requirements. Queuing for the chance to succeed instead of queuing to fail. I don't give a rat's TRIBBLE about the folks and all their personal requirements - wanting folks to do 2-3x the required DPS or wanting to wham - bam through the content as fast as possible because they're grinding away. I'm just talking about meeting those basic requirements that give folks a decent chance at completing the content...just being prepared for that, and all of that info is out there. Hell, the DPS folks that people like to rage about provided that info for folks. Yeah, while some of them are off doing nearly ten times the required amount - they still tried to help folks out with those minimum requirements.
Hence "Trial and Error". They still need to actually get some experience with Adv/Elite and most won't read up on the differences either. But, you basically fleshed out what I mean.
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
"We also know some people are here to just have fun in their OWN WAY." is fine if you're off playing by yourself. If you join a queue with other players, then you need to be prepared for that content.
I view pugging as fun like you im part of a bigger group with no need to pug.
I think we can all agree people from groups shaming pugs are just being trolls.
Tom: Your DPS sucks!
Jerry: Yeah, it could be better.
Tom: Your DPS sucks!
Jerry: No doubt.
Tom: Your DPS sucks!
Jerry: Yep, I made some gear choices for fun instead of min/maxing; but I'm more than meeting the requirements for the content.
Tom: Your DPS sucks!
Jerry: Heh, did you see the way I was flying? All sorts of wide angles that had me out of position and was causing a drop in DPS. Still though, even with my goofball wheee flying it was far more than enough for this content.
Tom: Your DPS sucks!
Jerry: Lol, did you see when I fat-fingered that debuff on the torpedo instead of the ship? Folks probably think I was flying drunk, heh.
Tom: Your DPS sucks!
Jerry: No argument from me, I can see the numbers. I'm about 1.5 times the required DPS for this content and you're running around 4-5 times the required DPS for the content.
Tom: Your DPS sucks!
Jerry: Still though, for that ship - you should have been able to pull better. Have you considered asking for help in one of the DPS Channels?
Tom: Your DPS sucks!
Jerry: Like a broken record, heh...no argument, amigo. Course, I know why my DPS sucks - do you know why your DPS sucks?
Tom: Wut?
Jerry: Your DPS sucks!
Tom: I did more than you.
Jerry: Not as much as you could be doing though. Your DPS sucks!
Tom: You're just jealous.
Jerry: Nah, I'm having fun. I'm meeting the content requirement. You're actually trying to pull off some heinous DPS. You're failing. Your DPS sucks!
Tom: TRIBBLE you.
Jerry: That won't fix your DPS problems. Your DPS sucks!
Tom: TRIBBLE you.
Jerry: No sweat off my back, I'm having fun and contributing to the group. I just wouldn't go around boasting if I were you, cause your DPS sucks!
Jerry: Tom? You still there?
Jerry: Oh Tom? Helllo?
I will never understand these silly dps is bad debates. Considering 99% of the content is pew pew, dps races why would you not want to download the combat log parser and try to improve?
I agree with virus, if you want to run crazy builds with low dps keep it in normal. You don't need rep gear. The minute you run advanced pugs it's not just you, there are four or more other players trying to have fun. Bringing a build that is subpar and causes a mission to fail is evidence that you don't care about anyone else but yourself. It's pretty selfish behavior.
Though there's no real info in game about how to properly put together a good build, there's plenty of people willing to help in game and in the forums. I try to help anyone that asks.
Despite my reg date on the forum, I'm a long timer since 2010. I don't need the parser as it tells me nothing I can't really work out for myself. I also pay zero attention to posted parsers as, as it has already been mentioned, they aren't 100%. I'd much prefer a battle report from the game's own engine IF I wanted to know.
Despite your opinion on DPS builds, my build covers alot of functions in the event there isn't 'enough' DPS or to help give the higher DPS chance to destroy. Being prepared for multiple situations is as valuable as DPS, even in a DPS race. Seriously, you should see chat when no-one is throwing a GW when it's needed, or TBR when space needs cleaning and the debuffs and Photonic Fleet more than compensate for my lower DPS in a Sci.
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
Tom: Your DPS sucks!
Jerry: Yeah, it could be better.
Tom: Your DPS sucks!
Jerry: No doubt.
Tom: Your DPS sucks!
Jerry: Yep, I made some gear choices for fun instead of min/maxing; but I'm more than meeting the requirements for the content.
Tom: Your DPS sucks!
Jerry: Heh, did you see the way I was flying? All sorts of wide angles that had me out of position and was causing a drop in DPS. Still though, even with my goofball wheee flying it was far more than enough for this content.
Tom: Your DPS sucks!
Jerry: Lol, did you see when I fat-fingered that debuff on the torpedo instead of the ship? Folks probably think I was flying drunk, heh.
Tom: Your DPS sucks!
Jerry: No argument from me, I can see the numbers. I'm about 1.5 times the required DPS for this content and you're running around 4-5 times the required DPS for the content.
Tom: Your DPS sucks!
Jerry: Still though, for that ship - you should have been able to pull better. Have you considered asking for help in one of the DPS Channels?
Tom: Your DPS sucks!
Jerry: Like a broken record, heh...no argument, amigo. Course, I know why my DPS sucks - do you know why your DPS sucks?
Tom: Wut?
Jerry: Your DPS sucks!
Tom: I did more than you.
Jerry: Not as much as you could be doing though. Your DPS sucks!
Tom: You're just jealous.
Jerry: Nah, I'm having fun. I'm meeting the content requirement. You're actually trying to pull off some heinous DPS. You're failing. Your DPS sucks!
Tom: TRIBBLE you.
Jerry: That won't fix your DPS problems. Your DPS sucks!
Tom: TRIBBLE you.
Jerry: No sweat off my back, I'm having fun and contributing to the group. I just wouldn't go around boasting if I were you, cause your DPS sucks!
Jerry: Tom? You still there?
Jerry: Oh Tom? Helllo?
Yup, pretty much how I'd reply if I was Jerry! ROFL!
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
Although what you say is correct, but slightly misguided, the majority play and learn through trial and error. So insulting a first-timer in an Adv/Elite queue is only going to put most off bothering to try again. Expecting people to 'run before they can walk' is not the way forward.
It's not always a case of running before you walk. Often enough the same people come into STF x, y or z and time after time keep doing the same thing. You can then clearly see that they aren't prepared to listen or as has been the case in the past, are trolling the queues for some reason.
If you've come to the forums to complain about the AFK system, it's known to be bugged at the moment.
On the other note of BNP, APC etc. You can get all of these in the Daily/Hourly Rep project box. You can get Rep items without having run even 1 Adv/Elite STF.
Technically correct, but the droprate is so low that I have gone from 1-5 in rep levels without getting more than 3 or at most 4 such items.
So your observation, while technically correct, has zero value on a pragmatic level.
Any way you slice it, average players, if they bothered to read the walkthru first, could successfully do elite STF's before DR, and now they cannot do Advanced. That's not a change for the better, that's not the best expansion evar, that's bull****.
Yup, pretty much how I'd reply if I was Jerry! ROFL!
With a missing icon?
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
I had that problem the other day...went to copy paste something, and I ended up with the paste being ~4 times what I had copied. Wonder if it is a Firefox thing.
@leemwatson: playing the game for a long time doesn't mean you know everything or that you can't learn something from a parser. I never said that a science build isn't viable or appreciated when done right. A 5k science build that throws grav wells in isa usually just delays the inevitable. Besides a good build will be able to self heal, cc and deal out the dps, depending on what ship you are running all three can be accomplished. i have a couple of ships that I put out a grav well and do over 15k dps with mkxii gear, tetryon iirc - I like blue. Healing, crowd control is not mutually exclusive now a days.
I have gotten plenty of first places in cca because of self heals exclusively. With the amount of aggro that I pull in pugs not having flexible self sufficient builds is a death sentence.
Technically correct, but the droprate is so low that I have gone from 1-5 in rep levels without getting more than 3 or at most 4 such items.
So your observation, while technically correct, has zero value on a pragmatic level.
Any way you slice it, average players, if they bothered to read the walkthru first, could successfully do elite STF's before DR, and now they cannot do Advanced. That's not a change for the better, that's not the best expansion evar, that's bull****.
I kid you not, I get 2 BNP or whichever weekly, which, especially for the ACP's is great news for me as they're not as easy to get as any of the others. So, if you're willing to wait, like me, it's not that bad.
I never mentioned anything about the change in difficulty, but I can still do Adv easily enough, and a special mention to the fact that I don't read walkthroughs, I will do trial and error to see what suits me and my playing style best. Walkthroughs do tend to have alot of 'YOU MUST' rather than 'You can try one of these ways'. All I need to know is the objectives and apply the best strategy for what I have to hand. But yes, there are some that won't learn or adjust, but it's the taking part that counts to me. Even a team of all low-mid range DPS can do a decent job, maybe not with the best rewards, but it's something. The worst crimes apart from trolling in this game is those that AFK or think they are better than the team.
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
Comments
And with about 10k you are ready to play advanced and get all the stuff you need.
The point is, you have to THINK a bit about what you are doing, maybe you have to READ some guides, or may be you must not be to PROUD TO ASK.
Once again, the problem is not the game, the problem are not other players, the problem is not the gear, the problem are those, who do not have the patience.
"First char, fresh level 50, no idea how the skillsystem works, but ohhh now i can play STFs, OHH there are different difficulty levels, ohhh, i am king, i dont need to try normal first and see how the things work, I want everything, i want it now, i want it here, i play ELITE because I AM ELITE"
Be honest, isnt that the state of mind many many players have?
I am posting a log at the end of a STF run, what do i get.
1. Most of the time, No reply at all.
2. very often things like "**** you", "**** of", "TRIBBLE" to call out the "polite" replys
3. rare, very rare somebody asks how to get better and what he / she can to to improve.
yes, the CombatLog Reader is a tough tool, its tough, because it shows in hard cold numbers what a team was about, what YOU are about. But do you think it helps to blame the tool, to blame reality, or would it perhaps be more helpfull to step back and think about what YOU should change on your setup to improve yourself.
Ok, if you say this is my way to play it, nobody is mad about it, its a game, have fun with it in your way, but STAY AWAY from things you are not ready for.
Or do you take part in the IndyCar Series with a bicycle and afterwards cry and whine and blame others for beeing overrun?
Blaming reality for beeing real?
As of late 2012 its easier and faster to do 2/3 (with more than 8k dps each) or 4/1 (teamdps not that great) and just kill one side then the other (with 2/3 it can happen that they go down nearly at the same time), so your heals, dps and everything else is combined. So waiting for one side would mean at least one player is bound on the other side, instead of having all (dps and all) together.
If you need help, you can link your skillplanner-build (maybe better per PM)and we can help you. Sometimes little tweaks bring big improvements.
Some wiki walkthroughs are still from S4/5, so some are outdated.
And in his case, he saw that there was far more dps than needed and still complained that they didnt do it like the (outdated) book said, so he is partially to blame for the later... comment ("your damage suckz" is more a statement than an insult tbh)
Just this.
You are a star of intelligence. Keep on being brave, Catherine
That sounds almost like what my late father used to say: "Engage brain before mouth."
Nukara Deflector
Romulan Engines
Fleet Warp/Sing core
Nukara Shields
Some devices, couple of good mission reward ones.
Omega, Nukara, Romulan Rep consoles/Ship Universal consoles/Fleet Eng consoles
Fleet Sci Flow Cap [pla] consoles
Fleet Vulnerability locators
Decent Boff layout.
A build that could and has soloed ISA in some players hands and you never need to touch an STF (not even Normal STFs) to make it.
You don't need to do ASTFs to get gear, and all you need gearwise for an ASTF capable build is mission reward/pennies off exchange.
Checking the STF walkthroughs on the wiki, they were all last updated Sept 2013.
(For reference, that's before Fleet cores, before extra DOff slots, and before Vul Locators.)
PUGs haven't needed 10% in (pre-DR) ISE for at least a year.
Every time I have parsed KSE/KSA, one side has always received different results than the other. If you're on probe duty lurking in the center, you may pick up both sides.
You will get some information, but most is getting lost over distance. If you are more than 10km from together, the loss begins, and in ksa its possible half the information is lost (so only half damage is recorded).
Though if someone only has 2k, he will most likely not have 5k real^^
We litterally spend *hours* of our time just last weekend to help some ppl get the right build told them how to fly and when to use which ability. Doesnt mean they immediately spiked to 50k dps+ but they had fun we had fun and they sure as hell did learn a lot.
So could we pls stop this dps chans vs noob stupidity? There is no conflict and no need to start oke or imagine one just because there are some bad apples on the dps tree. There are propably at least as much arrogant pricks ok the non-dps side as there are on the dps chans. Most are very friendly and helpful and dont really deserve so be put in the same basket with a few bad ones.
Just take any channel say pestf or NoP public service... Just because someone in there wasnt nice to you doesnt mean the 3k+ rest of the ppl in there are too.
This whole thing is just blown way out of proportion and is nothing more than a lazy generalization.
We also know some people are here to just have fun in their OWN WAY.
They clearly don't want anyone's help and take offense when their illusion is vanquished.
The rule should be if your in a pug KEEP YOUR PORT SHUT.
Don't offer help and don't send them DPS scores.
People do listen better when they come to you asking for help.
I'm a Sci running LRSV with Rom Plasma beams, Plasma Torps, Borg Weapon set, Aegis as well as a host of power boost consoles etc and skills geared for DoT/AoE/Control/Debuff and Tanking. This is what I find best for me, especially when running public STF's as most often there isn't anyone else doing that sort of thing. Being able to slow, hold and enfeeble the enemy is a great tactic in any situation.
However, what is key to remember that the majority don't care for DPS, they're playing for fun and most of them don't want DPS rammed down their throats. If someone joins Advanced and has no clue, they usually get a shout when someone notices them trying to take out the wrong side in the Borg STF's or other such thing. Point is, be helpful, not arrogant, especially in Public PvE.
The OP is right in asking for a bit of civility, so don't have a go at him because he didn't like the insult! Increasingly as these guys realise they can get away with saying whatever they want without consequence, they get more and more malicious. Whether it's trolling in ESD/DS9/QWWL or being part of the uber-DPS raging crew, there's no-one there to issue sanction and people shouldn't have to resort to 'Ignore' everytime insults are thrown, no matter for the reason.
No, the rule should be...
"We also know some people are here to just have fun in their OWN WAY." is fine if you're off playing by yourself. If you join a queue with other players, then you need to be prepared for that content.
I think I'm going to start the "200,000+ DPS Channel". Get a head start.
After all, since people are breaking the 100,000 DPS mark, is 200,000 DPS so far-fetched?
Then someone can start the "I WIN Channel" for those l337s who only have to mash the spacebar once to destroy everything in range (until Cryptic ups the HP & Shield NPC numbers again).
An arms race that benefits no one but Cryptic.
On the other note of BNP, APC etc. You can get all of these in the Daily/Hourly Rep project box. You can get Rep items without having run even 1 Adv/Elite STF.
Although what you say is correct, but slightly misguided, the majority play and learn through trial and error. So insulting a first-timer in an Adv/Elite queue is only going to put most off bothering to try again. Expecting people to 'run before they can walk' is not the way forward.
I agree with virus, if you want to run crazy builds with low dps keep it in normal. You don't need rep gear. The minute you run advanced pugs it's not just you, there are four or more other players trying to have fun. Bringing a build that is subpar and causes a mission to fail is evidence that you don't care about anyone else but yourself. It's pretty selfish behavior.
Though there's no real info in game about how to properly put together a good build, there's plenty of people willing to help in game and in the forums. I try to help anyone that asks.
Tom comes along, he's new to the game. He's not entirely sure of what he's doing. Is he out of luck? Are there perhaps folks that have some knowledge here and there on things? Could he say that he's interested in doing something, but he's not sure about whether his build is enough? Could he ask about various strategies/tactics that people use to do the content? Is most of that already going to be out there so that he wouldn't even need to ask...he'd only have to ask for any clarification on points he may not be sure on?
It's not a problem of expecting people to run before they can walk...it's a problem of people expecting that they can run before they walk. The information is there...they can walk on over and learn to run.
They've got all the leveling they've done - all the content they've done - they've got hitting up the basics of running the Normal versions - they've got all the information that others have gathered - they've got all the help so many folks are willing to offer...
...they're the only ones expecting that they can run without being able to walk - everybody else figures that with everything out there, they would have figured out both the walking and having a good idea of how to run, eh?
And please don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about all the folks with their personal expectations of what folks should do - I'm talking about meeting the content requirements. Queuing for the chance to succeed instead of queuing to fail. I don't give a rat's TRIBBLE about the folks and all their personal requirements - wanting folks to do 2-3x the required DPS or wanting to wham - bam through the content as fast as possible because they're grinding away. I'm just talking about meeting those basic requirements that give folks a decent chance at completing the content...just being prepared for that, and all of that info is out there. Hell, the DPS folks that people like to rage about provided that info for folks. Yeah, while some of them are off doing nearly ten times the required amount - they still tried to help folks out with those minimum requirements.
Hence "Trial and Error". They still need to actually get some experience with Adv/Elite and most won't read up on the differences either. But, you basically fleshed out what I mean.
I view pugging as fun like you im part of a bigger group with no need to pug.
I think we can all agree people from groups shaming pugs are just being trolls.
Jerry: Yeah, it could be better.
Tom: Your DPS sucks!
Jerry: No doubt.
Tom: Your DPS sucks!
Jerry: Yep, I made some gear choices for fun instead of min/maxing; but I'm more than meeting the requirements for the content.
Tom: Your DPS sucks!
Jerry: Heh, did you see the way I was flying? All sorts of wide angles that had me out of position and was causing a drop in DPS. Still though, even with my goofball wheee flying it was far more than enough for this content.
Tom: Your DPS sucks!
Jerry: Lol, did you see when I fat-fingered that debuff on the torpedo instead of the ship? Folks probably think I was flying drunk, heh.
Tom: Your DPS sucks!
Jerry: No argument from me, I can see the numbers. I'm about 1.5 times the required DPS for this content and you're running around 4-5 times the required DPS for the content.
Tom: Your DPS sucks!
Jerry: Still though, for that ship - you should have been able to pull better. Have you considered asking for help in one of the DPS Channels?
Tom: Your DPS sucks!
Jerry: Like a broken record, heh...no argument, amigo. Course, I know why my DPS sucks - do you know why your DPS sucks?
Tom: Wut?
Jerry: Your DPS sucks!
Tom: I did more than you.
Jerry: Not as much as you could be doing though. Your DPS sucks!
Tom: You're just jealous.
Jerry: Nah, I'm having fun. I'm meeting the content requirement. You're actually trying to pull off some heinous DPS. You're failing. Your DPS sucks!
Tom: TRIBBLE you.
Jerry: That won't fix your DPS problems. Your DPS sucks!
Tom: TRIBBLE you.
Jerry: No sweat off my back, I'm having fun and contributing to the group. I just wouldn't go around boasting if I were you, cause your DPS sucks!
Jerry: Tom? You still there?
Jerry: Oh Tom? Helllo?
Don't come into the advanced/elites expecting sympathy in pugs
Those are for competitive players
There are places for everything, or just make a team beforehand
Sorry man
Despite my reg date on the forum, I'm a long timer since 2010. I don't need the parser as it tells me nothing I can't really work out for myself. I also pay zero attention to posted parsers as, as it has already been mentioned, they aren't 100%. I'd much prefer a battle report from the game's own engine IF I wanted to know.
Despite your opinion on DPS builds, my build covers alot of functions in the event there isn't 'enough' DPS or to help give the higher DPS chance to destroy. Being prepared for multiple situations is as valuable as DPS, even in a DPS race. Seriously, you should see chat when no-one is throwing a GW when it's needed, or TBR when space needs cleaning and the debuffs and Photonic Fleet more than compensate for my lower DPS in a Sci.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/images/icons/icon14.gifhttp://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/images/icons/icon14.gifhttp://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/images/icons/icon14.gifhttp://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/images/icons/icon14.gif
Yup, pretty much how I'd reply if I was Jerry! ROFL!
It's not always a case of running before you walk. Often enough the same people come into STF x, y or z and time after time keep doing the same thing. You can then clearly see that they aren't prepared to listen or as has been the case in the past, are trolling the queues for some reason.
Technically correct, but the droprate is so low that I have gone from 1-5 in rep levels without getting more than 3 or at most 4 such items.
So your observation, while technically correct, has zero value on a pragmatic level.
Any way you slice it, average players, if they bothered to read the walkthru first, could successfully do elite STF's before DR, and now they cannot do Advanced. That's not a change for the better, that's not the best expansion evar, that's bull****.
With a missing icon?
I had that problem the other day...went to copy paste something, and I ended up with the paste being ~4 times what I had copied. Wonder if it is a Firefox thing.
I have gotten plenty of first places in cca because of self heals exclusively. With the amount of aggro that I pull in pugs not having flexible self sufficient builds is a death sentence.
I kid you not, I get 2 BNP or whichever weekly, which, especially for the ACP's is great news for me as they're not as easy to get as any of the others. So, if you're willing to wait, like me, it's not that bad.
I never mentioned anything about the change in difficulty, but I can still do Adv easily enough, and a special mention to the fact that I don't read walkthroughs, I will do trial and error to see what suits me and my playing style best. Walkthroughs do tend to have alot of 'YOU MUST' rather than 'You can try one of these ways'. All I need to know is the objectives and apply the best strategy for what I have to hand. But yes, there are some that won't learn or adjust, but it's the taking part that counts to me. Even a team of all low-mid range DPS can do a decent job, maybe not with the best rewards, but it's something. The worst crimes apart from trolling in this game is those that AFK or think they are better than the team.