test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Suggestion: in-game threat and DPS meters

1246

Comments

  • darkjeffdarkjeff Member Posts: 2,590 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Welcome to WOW in Space!!!!!

    But WoW has a functional trinity system.
    You say this, but your group never publishs a walk through guide on how to do a 100k DPS run , instead post videos of record runs isn't that lording.
    True champions lead by example with a helping hand.

    They put out plenty of videos.

    Once you learn to walk, you realize that running isn't that huge of a jump. There's literally nothing they can teach in a 100k run that they can't in a 30k run. It becomes an issue of coordination and piloting ability.

    (Some would say there's no such thing as piloting ability. Of course, those also tend to be people who parse terribly.)
  • ryakidrysryakidrys Member Posts: 830 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    In game DPS meter..... Get a second monitor, extend the desktop and put ACT, CLR, or some other parser on the second monitor. Done. That's what I did long ago. It works very well.
  • virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    cbrjwrr wrote: »
    See second sentence - it is a broken system to begin with.


    Star Trek Online - the name would imply an MMO set in the Star Trek universe. What we have is a not particularly good space game that is just skinned as Star Trek.



    Let's go back to my earlier point about the Horizon vs an Avenger. In STO, only one is desirable. To the Federation's position, it is the wrong one - to the actual IP, the hospital ship would be more valuable than the warship.

    In STO, the Avenger is downright common, the Horizon? I have never seen someone use either T5 variant. Never.

    Yet, we can all think of situations where a Galaxy-class would be valuable for it's capability to be an excellent cruiser, or an Intrepid for long range exploration (they made a series out of that FFS) - but in STO, all that matters is the defiant for it's firepower.

    And that is where STO has gone wrong.

    See, I disagree. If a hospital ship was more valuable to the IP, then we would have followed the adventures of a hospital ship. USS St. Elsewhere, USS Chicago Hope, etc, etc, etc. But that's not what we followed...and for the most part, what we followed was "We come in peace, shoot to kill!" pew pew action.

    To boldly blow stuff up where no man had blown stuff up before...which is what STO gives us, minus the no man before - cause it's thousands before, thousands after, and lol - likely you'll do it thousands of times yourself...meh.

    Folks oft talk about Star Trek being this or that, and I look back at everything I've watched since the 70s...and uh, yeah...huh? Cryptic's actually got that down pat...
  • dgdolphdgdolph Member Posts: 592 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    cbrjwrr wrote: »
    If you want to do better they will welcome the competition. I don't bother as I simply cannot afford to compete, but if you can...
    Maybe I could afford...but tbh I am struggling with getting epic equip onto my pvp build and I'm not going to waste all those ressources on a PvE build. I'll leave that to the people that are actually having fun doing the dps race :)

    That's another reason for not wanting an ingame dps meter. I don't wanna get flamed when I'm playing with my pre-delta-rising no-spec-point purple mk xii geared PvE fed ship that "only" deals about 30k dps...

    darkjeff wrote: »
    But WoW has a functional trinity system.
    Can't say if it's functional or not, but at least it is more functional than STOs :D
    ryakidrys wrote: »
    In game DPS meter..... Get a second monitor, extend the desktop and put ACT, CLR, or some other parser on the second monitor. Done. That's what I did long ago. It works very well.
    100 times this. I encourage everyone I know to do this. But an ingame dps meter, wether it's private or public is only going to end up in flames, rage and lots of e-peen :rolleyes:
  • bluegeekbluegeek Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    I don't believe that a DPS meter visible to the entire team would be that productive, but a personal meter would be very useful. People can compare meters if they want without getting browbeaten over them.

    I have zero idea what DPS I'm cranking out (or not) and can't be bothered to jump through the hoops to analyze it. But a personal meter would help assess the effectiveness of my build and tactics and encourage a little tweaking. Even the value of that is debatable in PvE.

    A team threat meter, on the other hand, would be useful in a team scenario. Knowing who's got the most threat could tell you who needs the most support.
    My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here
    Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
  • blakes7tvseriesblakes7tvseries Member Posts: 704 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    darkjeff wrote: »
    But WoW has a functional trinity system.



    They put out plenty of videos.

    Once you learn to walk, you realize that running isn't that huge of a jump. There's literally nothing they can teach in a 100k run that they can't in a 30k run. It becomes an issue of coordination and piloting ability.

    (Some would say there's no such thing as piloting ability. Of course, those also tend to be people who parse terribly.)

    This is exactly my point you guys don't share and from what I heard you are always competing with each other. If anyone asks for help on your channel they get immediately attacked and shamed for not knowing. Everyone already knows your group has no wish to help new players, this all I wanted to say anyway.
    download.jpg
  • cbrjwrrcbrjwrr Member Posts: 2,782 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    You say this, but your group never publishs a walk through guide on how to do a 100k DPS run , instead post videos of record runs isn't that lording.
    True champions lead by example with a helping hand.

    Actually, we do - to do a mid 30k DPS ISA run on pre-DR gear essentially covers everything you need to know to do a 100k run pre and post-DR, after that it is all in timing, skill and flying straight. And a bit of luck.

    In fact, a 30k run is a better learning tool, stuff doesn't just melt like a chocolate bar in a oven like it does in 100k runs.


    Take this: http://imgur.com/a/ypmca - flanking directions for KAS, CS, IS. Now, if I just hand you that, do you gain from it. You should, but do you?

    Just saying "this is what it is" isn't enough, you must have understanding and knowledge to take advantage of new information.


    See, in principle, those maps are all you need to know about these PvE queues - from this you can easily see the most optimum way to do them, both alone and in a 5 man team.

    I could also point to: http://www.reddit.com/r/stobuilds/wiki/advanced_tactics/vol_4_ise_3_2_split - all you need to know about how to do a 100k DPS run is in there, because provided you can do a 3, 2 or a 2, 1, 2 split successfully all DPS really changes is how long it takes.


    As to equipment - think it through logically. Or, just read the descriptions of the vids and surrounding threads - Felisean's 125k DPS build is in public (not sure on the 131k DPS build mind) Ezriryan's Gal-X and Akira builds are public. From those, you can see what stuff we use, and combined with research, why we use it.


    See, I disagree. If a hospital ship was more valuable to the IP, then we would have followed the adventures of a hospital ship. USS St. Elsewhere, USS Chicago Hope, etc, etc, etc. But that's not what we followed...and for the most part, what we followed was "We come in peace, shoot to kill!" pew pew action.

    To boldly blow stuff up where no man had blown stuff up before...which is what STO gives us, minus the no man before - cause it's thousands before, thousands after, and lol - likely you'll do it thousands of times yourself...meh.

    Folks oft talk about Star Trek being this or that, and I look back at everything I've watched since the 70s...and uh, yeah...huh? Cryptic's actually got that down pat...

    And? Just because it was dumbed down to appeal to 20th century humans doesn't mean the actual values are such.

    Also, we saw the special ships, if we had seen a hospital ship it would be basically Casualty in space, and that would be a very boring TV program.

    dgdolph wrote: »
    Maybe I could afford...but tbh I am struggling with getting epic equip onto my pvp build and I'm not going to waste all those ressources on a PvE build. I'll leave that to the people that are actually having fun doing the dps race :)

    That's another reason for not wanting an ingame dps meter. I don't wanna get flamed when I'm playing with my pre-delta-rising no-spec-point purple mk xii geared PvE fed ship that "only" deals about 30k dps...


    Yes, it is very pricy. An all Epic ship and build in terms of all in costs you are probably touching quite serious amounts of real money equivalence, far too much.

    TBF, 30k on Mk XII is still pretty good, especially for a Fed. 30k on Epic Mk XIV and you aren't flying straight really, but that is only because 30k on Mk XIV is about 10-15k Mk XII in terms of skill and build strength.
  • darkjeffdarkjeff Member Posts: 2,590 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    If anyone asks for help on your channel they get immediately attacked and shamed for not knowing.

    I have never seen anyone asking for help be attacked or shamed.

    I have to wonder if you even know what the DPS channels are.
    Everyone already knows your group has no wish to help new players, this all I wanted to say anyway.

    That's utter bovine excrement.
  • dgdolphdgdolph Member Posts: 592 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    darkjeff wrote: »
    I have never seen anyone asking for help be attacked or shamed.

    I have to wonder if you even know what the DPS channels are.

    I don't want to call out any names...but I could provide screenshots of some high DPSers starting a witchhunt on others cuz they did 10k dps only on their sci alt toons.

    While the dps channels can be very helpful finding a group, they also have their "dark side" ;)
  • shinra84shinra84 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    dgdolph wrote: »
    I don't want to call out any names...but I could provide screenshots of some high DPSers starting a witchhunt on others cuz they did 10k dps only on their sci alt toons.

    While the dps channels can be very helpful finding a group, they also have their "dark side" ;)

    i'm little angry when i ask for team on 30k dps# and see less than 20k parse after run...
    on 20k use 20k ship, on 30k use 30k ship minimum or just inform how much dps u have before join.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    CLR—Infected Space[2:24]—Dmg(DPS)—Bi'Quarpa@9.163.310(65.437)—Xindi-E(dbb/mk.xiv)—build
    CLR—Infected Space[2:06]—Dmg(DPS)—Bi'Quarpa@6.421.868(52.210)—JHAS(dhc/mk.xiv)—build
  • bluegeekbluegeek Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    People, there's no need to derail this thread with an argument about elitism. That is NOT the point of this thread. Please stop bickering back and forth.
    My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here
    Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
  • darkjeffdarkjeff Member Posts: 2,590 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    dgdolph wrote: »
    I don't want to call out any names...but I could provide screenshots of some high DPSers starting a witchhunt on others cuz they did 10k dps only on their sci alt toons.

    That's not someone asking for help/advice.

    That's somebody lying about what they're bringing, and it's completely reasonable for the recruiter to be angry.

    If you ask around for a pick-up truck to help move, I volunteer, and then I show up with a two door VW Bug it's perfectly reasonable for you to be angry. "Oh, this is my alternate car" wouldn't really cut it, would it?
  • dgdolphdgdolph Member Posts: 592 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    shinra84 wrote: »
    i'm little angry when i ask for team on 30k dps# and see less than 20k parse after run...
    on 20k use 20k ship, on 30k use 30k ship minimum or just inform how much dps u have before join.

    Considering that a good sci vessel can heavily improve a teams performance, this is just sad to read.

    Even in the top dps runs on video there are some debuffers dealing 13k only - pls ban those noobs from the chans.
    Proof:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5sY8flnW2w
    check numbers at 1:47


    And thats the big danger of having an ingame dps meter: People are getting reduced to a number instead of looking at the usefullness in a teamsetup...:rolleyes:
  • shinra84shinra84 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    dgdolph wrote: »
    Considering that a good sci vessel can heavily improve a teams performance, this is just sad to read.

    Even in the top dps runs on video there are some debuffers dealing 13k only - pls ban those noobs from the chans.
    Proof:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5sY8flnW2w
    check numbers at 1:47


    And thats the big danger of having an ingame dps meter: People are getting reduced to a number instead of usefullness in a teamsetup...:rolleyes:

    darkjeff wrote: »
    That's not someone asking for help/advice.

    That's somebody lying about what they're bringing, and it's completely reasonable for the recruiter to be angry.

    If you ask around for a pick-up truck to help move, I volunteer, and then I show up with a two door VW Bug it's perfectly reasonable for you to be angry. "Oh, this is my alternate car" wouldn't really cut it, would it?

    exactly. if i need specific build/skills i just ask for it...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    CLR—Infected Space[2:24]—Dmg(DPS)—Bi'Quarpa@9.163.310(65.437)—Xindi-E(dbb/mk.xiv)—build
    CLR—Infected Space[2:06]—Dmg(DPS)—Bi'Quarpa@6.421.868(52.210)—JHAS(dhc/mk.xiv)—build
  • dgdolphdgdolph Member Posts: 592 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    shinra84 wrote: »
    exactly. if i need specific build/skills i just ask for it...
    You still didn't do the math.

    Just random numbers for this example:
    If I bring a good debuffer that deals 10k dps but adds 100k dps to the teams performance...its like bringing a 110k dps ship.

    Sure it sucks if you end up with a group of 5 support ships, but there's absolutely no reason to be angry.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    darkjeff wrote: »
    But WoW has a functional trinity system.

    I'm referring to the degrading and nearing toxic in game "community" Just like Wow..

    DPS meters are just one of the last steps before it goes to total and utter **** Just like Wow..
  • darkjeffdarkjeff Member Posts: 2,590 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    dgdolph wrote: »
    You still didn't do the math.

    Just random numbers for this example:
    If I bring a good debuffer that deals 10k dps but adds 100k dps to the teams performance...its like bringing a 110k dps ship.

    Sure it sucks if you end up with a group of 5 support ships, but there's absolutely no reason to be angry.

    Except it's not.

    If you claim to be bringing a 110k ship, that's outright lying. It's a 10k ship that debuffs. Four people doing exactly that ends up with four people doing 40k and adding nowhere close to 400k dps to the team.

    You're trying to frame the issue as a "support ships" thing, but it's not. The issue is lying. Which is a perfectly good thing to be angry about.
  • lored2deathlored2death Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    I am 1000% behind an in-game DPS meter *for the player*, not to telegraph it to everyone as that will cause even more harassing than I already see about DPS in-game.

    It would be nice to be able to have some tool to help myself and others parse/test our DPS without having to use an outside source (that I could never get working right on my pc).

    If STo is going to be one giant DPS race, and it's been made into that, then give players the tools to self-test their builds. They can't say it can't be done because, well, others have literally done it.
  • dgdolphdgdolph Member Posts: 592 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    darkjeff wrote: »
    Except it's not.

    If you claim to be bringing a 110k ship, that's outright lying. It's a 10k ship that debuffs. Four people doing exactly that ends up with four people doing 40k and adding nowhere close to 400k dps to the team.

    You're trying to frame the issue as a "support ships" thing, but it's not. The issue is lying. Which is a perfectly good thing to be angry about.

    I see, it's all about the point of view.

    From my point of view, it's not lying, it's failing to interpret a combat log file on the other side. If someone asks in the 30k dps channel for a player to contribute 30k dps and I bring a debuff ship that contibutes way more than 30k dps everything should be fine even if I have a raw dmg output of about 10k.

    And while this is 100% unintended by you, you deliver the perfect reason for not wanting an ingame dps meter. As long as long time players missinterpret log files and numbers...there's no sense in having such an ingame tool.
  • pewpewphazorspewpewphazors Member Posts: 90 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    darkjeff wrote: »
    I have never seen anyone asking for help be attacked or shamed..

    You've never seen people asking for help personally attacked or shamed in the DPS channels before? Well I certainly beg to differ. I see it from time to time.

    Not that it bothers me much, It just let me know who to avoid. And is also a reason why I refuse to join the 50k channel.
  • edited December 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    bluegeek wrote: »
    People, there's no need to derail this thread with an argument about elitism. That is NOT the point of this thread. Please stop bickering back and forth.

    DPS meters and elitism go hand in hand.. They have in every MMO I've played for 15 years, and they always will. As soon as a game starts getting broke down in to nothing but a numbers race it ceases to be anything but a breeding ground for elitists. Every MMO for 15 years.

    Never changes never will, it's the nature of humanity.
  • edited December 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • cbrjwrrcbrjwrr Member Posts: 2,782 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    dgdolph wrote: »
    Considering that a good sci vessel can heavily improve a teams performance, this is just sad to read.

    Even in the top dps runs on video there are some debuffers dealing 13k only - pls ban those noobs from the chans.
    Proof:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5sY8flnW2w
    check numbers at 1:47


    And thats the big danger of having an ingame dps meter: People are getting reduced to a number instead of looking at the usefullness in a teamsetup...:rolleyes:

    Actually, that run has been beaten - new record is 55 seconds and 131k DPS, set with no Recluse.
  • lordcuttersladelordcutterslade Member Posts: 116 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    cbrjwrr wrote: »
    Actually, that run has been beaten - new record is 55 seconds and 131k DPS, set with no Recluse.

    I don't think that you got the point....
    Your answer made me laugh tho :D

    What this game really needs is a PvE and a PvP target dummy. (look at SWTOR for example)

    The fact that people are measuring DPS by doing a PvE mission (Infected (adv)) is actually quite funny and also stupid if you think about it.
    A mate from Swtor actually laughed when he heard how you're measuring dps in this game.
    And he's right.

    A foundry mission with 1 big TRIBBLE ship with almost unlimited hitpoints could even work as a target dummy.
    Fire at it for exactly 5 mins and check dps/dmg.
    [SIGPIC]Everything is awesome![/SIGPIC]
  • dgdolphdgdolph Member Posts: 592 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    DPS meters and elitism go hand in hand..

    Talking bout elitism - fun fact:

    There is not a single elite player left in this game. There are just a bunch of average players battling with other average players who's the best. Anyone who actually was skilled or a pro gamer is currently inactive or left the game loooooooong ago :eek:

    Thanks to cryptic that they drove those people away so guys like us that are slightly better than noobs can feel like the best of the bestestest :D
  • shinra84shinra84 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    Right...because people don't have bad runs. Or lag issues. Or they wanna use whatever ship they wanna at that time. Kinda why I don't much use the DPS channels. I do admit that I do like the idea of them. Many of the people on em are actually quite nice folks who just wanna have some fun...but sentiments like yours (only taken up a notch) really sours me on the channel when I see it. Getting a little mad...meh. Getting verbally abusive or calling people liars...yeah...not so much.

    Back to topic...

    A team DPS meter? HELL NO. There is enough DPS epeening without one available in game.
    A personal one? YES PLEASE. I would love a personal one so i can easily do some tweaking.
    A team threat meter? I WANT THIS NOW!!!!!

    1. i dont call anyone a liar...
    2. i get pm from few players when i join to 20 and 30k to use only ship which have that dps passed, thats why i'm little angry when i see lower dps in 20k/30k (for example 10k or less/25k or less).
    3. u know when i create room and ask only on 30k chan for peps i expected they have passed that barrier and seriously i dont have any problem with people which inform me before join "i have 20k ship" or "test this build" or "sci here"...

    for me this is simple 20k dps = 20k ship or info - this is not that hard, few words... or go pug/ask on public channels for team.


    in game dps/threat meter? no. First balance sci/eng/tac profesion and ships... then we can play in mixed teams - actually in sto only damage have matter.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    CLR—Infected Space[2:24]—Dmg(DPS)—Bi'Quarpa@9.163.310(65.437)—Xindi-E(dbb/mk.xiv)—build
    CLR—Infected Space[2:06]—Dmg(DPS)—Bi'Quarpa@6.421.868(52.210)—JHAS(dhc/mk.xiv)—build
  • sinn74sinn74 Member Posts: 1,149 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    I don't think that you got the point....
    Your answer made me laugh tho :D

    What this game really needs is a PvE and a PvP target dummy. (look at SWTOR for example)

    The fact that people are measuring DPS by doing a PvE mission (Infected (adv)) is actually quite funny and also stupid if you think about it.
    A mate from Swtor actually laughed when he heard how you're measuring dps in this game.
    And he's right.

    A foundry mission with 1 big TRIBBLE ship with almost unlimited hitpoints could even work as a target dummy.
    Fire at it for exactly 5 mins and check dps/dmg.

    This is a huge ly standard misconception with the Dps parser, and parsing ISA.

    If you have a ship that can do 150k DPS on a "training dummy," does that mean you are able to blitz through any STF with zero piloting skills? No. Does it mean you can do 150k DPS doing [insert STF here]? No.

    Before I had to take a break for RL reasons, I was attempting to demonstrate this. Running PUGs to see why they are failing.

    Both a bad build and having no clue what one is doing will lower DPS. People fly around staying as far away as they can from everything, doing no damage. People have poor (less than 3k)DPS and blame it on a SCI or ENG build. People fly around in circles and get lost, for cryin out loud. These people should have some tool available to educate them that they are not doing well.

    Since I came back, it has been worse. I actually quit a PUG ISA for the first time ever- the other 4 people were all doing under 2k DPS. I sincerely don't understand how that is possible, unless you're trolling. Can you even finish the FEs doing that?

    The queues are ridiculously empty. Not only are people thinking they can ROFLstomp everything (because of running stories on easy mode solo), but borderline people are failing, and not knowing why.

    If you think you're doing great, and see a parse saying you did 2k damage in an STF, when everyone else was 10k-30k, would you

    1. Just put your fingers in your ears and say "lalala I did crowd control and debuffed so I don't care what that says," or

    2. Wake up and realize you're not as "uber" as you were thinking, and seek out info to get better?

    Nothing can be done for those who choose 1, but without a parser, someone who would choose 2 stays out of the queues (or worse, ruins it for everyone teaming with them). This is why an in-game parser could benefit people. Not to make fun of them, to wake them up, or actually show them how good they're doing.

    Otherwise it's "Well I know I'm doing well. I don't care what anything else says." And, honestly, if there is that big a discrepancy, the person is most likely wrong.

    FYI, I love SCI. It's lower DPS, but more fun (to me). That said, I wouldn't take a SCI alt into an advanced queue without knowing I could do -at least- the bare minimum to demonstrate I was pulling my weight. 10k DPS is not a ridiculous, insurmountable hurdle. Seriously. Even if you're non-TAC.

    I have weird, odd, fun builds. I would not take them into something called "Advanced" or "Elite" difficulty, unless I was trying to

    1. Leech off someone else to get rewards for me, or

    2. Grief players by causing a failure.
  • battykoda0battykoda0 Member Posts: 959 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    darkjeff wrote: »
    Except it's not.

    If you claim to be bringing a 110k ship, that's outright lying. It's a 10k ship that debuffs. Four people doing exactly that ends up with four people doing 40k and adding nowhere close to 400k dps to the team.

    You're trying to frame the issue as a "support ships" thing, but it's not. The issue is lying. Which is a perfectly good thing to be angry about.

    I think it's time for support people to call a general strike. Don't heal. Don't CC. Don't buff. Let them do it themselves. Anything you present to them, they are going to hand you a "You Suck" button. Private match with friends and let these people moan at a wall.
    Wow. There is a new KDF Science ship. I'll be!
  • cbrjwrrcbrjwrr Member Posts: 2,782 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    I don't think that you got the point....
    Your answer made me laugh tho :D

    What this game really needs is a PvE and a PvP target dummy. (look at SWTOR for example)

    The fact that people are measuring DPS by doing a PvE mission (Infected (adv)) is actually quite funny and also stupid if you think about it.
    A mate from Swtor actually laughed when he heard how you're measuring dps in this game.
    And he's right.

    A foundry mission with 1 big TRIBBLE ship with almost unlimited hitpoints could even work as a target dummy.
    Fire at it for exactly 5 mins and check dps/dmg.

    Actually, ISA is used because of several factors:

    1. Basically everyone knows what it is and runs it, and so performance measurements from it allows meaningful comparison between any player or build.

    2. It is nice, simple, and most importantly is always constant except for player brought variables.

    3. It is quick and one of the more rewarding PvE queues - your Foundry plan would not be anywhere close to it.

    4. It isn't bugged, unlike most of the rest of STO...

    5. The result from your 1 player vs big punchbag is meaningless relative to the actual stuff played, which is teamed content for endgame grinding.


    Starbase 234, Starbase 24, Argala and Jalpori patrols are also relatively common to be used for measurement of DPS.
Sign In or Register to comment.