If you wanna drive all remaining newbies away -> yay, bring on an e-P****-meter.
oh, and btw, from another topic:
In all honesty, please stop suggesting new things to cryptic. We have learned that cryptic is not able to handle this.
Instead, please ask to fix this broken expansion & lots of bugs and to balance the game. The Devs at cryptic shouldn't do anything else than repairing what they have broken.
If your graviton gens is high enough, than you need never use TBR's to get them where they need to go!
Yes, the skill of TBR's is useful if used correctly but, way to often I seen people hurt the team with it, than actually helping the team!
They're not high enough yet, so I use TBR to compensate between GWs when I don't get lucky with the GW torpedo. The moving them further away is mostly just a bonus really.
I used to play the game 'World of Tanks' which has a website able to review everyones damage/skill score, and to be honest the amount of Epeen waving by the 'leet' few and abuse thrown at players not able to match the 'leet' players is disgusting ... Making WOT one of the worst communities around (Just check their forums - full of leet noob bashing)
What I am expecting to happen ...
" Noob, I cheked your damage and you only do 5k damage lol, you should just quit the game and life noob"
dps meters just make for extra stupidity. People turn it into a contest and forget how to play (which has already happened to an extent with external dps tools). That, and the dps credit is broken (I routinely see credit for torps I did not fire, for example, and I have no pets etc either, its just *wrong*). I mean, your entire reason for adding this is to get into an argument with someone... ?? It serves no positive purpose. Think about it ... anyone that does not know what TBR can do to a gate/generator/etc is not worth getting into it with.
Threat meter is worth having, but you have that already, really. You can show the target of your target. Since only bosses matter for threat (nothing else lives that long) you can see who the enemy is targeting. Good enough.
I was bad at space until the exact day I downloaded a DPS parcer.
After I did, I realized what I was doing right, what I was doing wrong, and what changes work better.
Everyone should have easy access to it. I really don't see any good arguments against it... other than players who don't want a constant reminder that their build is a burden on others.
I was bad at space until the exact day I downloaded a DPS parcer.
After I did, I realized what I was doing right, what I was doing wrong, and what changes work better.
Everyone should have easy access to it. I really don't see any good arguments against it... other than players who don't want a constant reminder that their build is a burden on others.
This is what I was on about... Because someone doesn't do as much damage as a DPS Leet guy they are labelled a 'burden'
And where is the cut-off point? If you do 5k then the 10k will call you a burden, then the 10k will get abused for daring to do an Advanced when the rest do 20k+ ... etc ...
And the 80k+ guys lording it over everyone, shoving their epeen dps down everyones throats.
I will make a note to remove my CC powers and my GravGens and PartGens in favor of (what can I put in those science seats to power my weapons??) and tac consoles for my 6 little non-cannon weapons and two whole tac powers. I'm sure my dps will jump to over 100k with an ensign and lt tac seat running all out.
Don't blame the player for the way this game is setup. To achieve the mandatory "optional" in adv-elite, you usually have to beat a timer. The only way to beat a timer is to have a set minimum DPS for the team, and thus, a minimum DPS per player. Unless you have someone carrying you, which can be planned if you play in a not-pug team.
However, in PUG, you have to do a set minimum DPS to do your part.
That's how the game is made. Blame the devs if you don't like it, not the player.
I would not mind a metter if there were two things
1. it only showed my DPS/ threat.
this would let me know how I was doing and what I might want to do different.
2. no one else could see my DPS/ threat.
this would prevent any imedit bashing of the low DPS people.
"The soldier above all others prays for peace, for it is the soldier who must suffer and bear the deepest wounds and scars of war."
Douglas MacArthur - Quote on the dedication plaque of the U.S.S. Ranger NCC-97332-A Armitage class Fleet Heavy Strike Wing Escort.
Regarding DPS, CombatLogReader gets the job done better than any tool Cryptic could integrate into the game. Just use that.
The Threat generation / Threat Control mechanic is one of the most obscure and poorly-explained systems in STO. I have never seen a dev post explaining it. I assume the code behind it is as badly programmed and poorly documented as FAW and the exchange.
I'd love to see Threat numbers and I'd really like a detailed explanation of how it works. I won't hold my breath, though.
You don't need a dammed DPS meter to see if you're not effective. Most people will know they aren't at their peak performance when it take them 5 mins to kill a nanite sphere.
But at the same time DPS is not the most important aspect of the game and the sooner players realise this the better for everyone.
Take ISA for example:
I've played it many, many times in the last 2 weeks, in both a Pathfinder T6 and also a Phantom T6.
Now the Phantom does an TRIBBLE tonne more DPS than the Pathfinder could ever dream of but I have a lot more success in the Pathfinder because I can do the crowd control on the nanite spheres that the vast majority of players ignore in this mission. I've seen numerous runs fail because nobody bothered with CC'ing the spheres as they were all trying to DPS the transformers ans wave their e-peen about and nobody stopped the incoming threat.
Now maybe if we'd all been 15K+ cruisers or escorts we'd win each time. But I know for a fact that if I was in my Pathfinder the mission would never fail, despite that ship only putting out 8K DPS for most runs.
Am I a dead weight because i'm not busy flattening the transformers with massive DPS?
Or am I actually the most useful guy in the team because I've realised and used my strength (Crowd Control) to stop the mission failing and allow the DPS guys to attack the transformer unimpeded?
I suspect it's the latter.
DPS is not the only thing that maters, there's a lot of PVE queues that are easier to win with tactics and stealth than just storming in all guns blazing.
DPS metering ingame, standardized by the devs is good and bad.
- by measuring only dps, we undervalue the contribution of healers, tactics
- measuring dps is a way to see your improvement, which is valuable to players
- it's a distraction during the game; players focus on themselves and ignore the team
- dps is used as a stigma.. 'Bob' can't get about 6K, don't team with him.
- dps is used as a teaching tool - Let's help 'Bob' improve...
- the devs don't know what REAL dps is, I don't use the ingame monitor
- the dps meter is flawed, haxxored, innacurate
What I'd like to see is a Value Meter, that has dps as a component. per PLAYER
'Support' - hull and shield heals
'Tank' - amount of managed damage before dying
'DPS' - damage per second
With a breakdown at the end of the STF or Mission:
This is what I was on about... Because someone doesn't do as much damage as a DPS Leet guy they are labelled a 'burden'
The math isn't that difficult if you have all the necessary information in front of you. Take the total HP of the combined enemies, divide it by however many seconds you have to complete the mission. Divide that number by 5, and that is the minimum DPS you should be doing to avoid being a burden.
You don't have to be leet to run aSTFs, but you should be accountable to carry your own weight.
All I'm hearing is excuses from people unwilling to improve, yet feeling entitled to be dragged along to victories. There is a space between n00b and l33t called putting in an honest effort.
To those speaking on how Tractor Beam Repulsors aren't useful: Try using Graga Mal, guys... seriously.... it's science FAW.
Do I care when someone is out-DPS-ing me? HECK NO! It means I'm probably not going to be wasting my time in a pug, that's what it means. This isn't some stupid e-peen thing, this is about having a functional build in the game.
Gotta love those who are against a DPS meter- it pretty much confirms what I suspected about how the playerbase doesn't care about having a decent build, but will still gripe that the queues are empty. This is why they are empty, because players like myself cannot carry you lot any longer! And I stand by my comment about how low DPS means you are dead weight: In a game where there is a timer to beat, and there are situations where we must kill a certain enemy as fast as possible, I don't give a rat's behind if you can lock down those nanite spheres at the gate- you'd be better off helping me KILL THEM so that we don't have to run the risk of my getting killed and us failing the mission, or my making a mistake and us failing the mission because your gravity well ran out of juice.
Sardak (Science Officer): Captain of a 23k DPS R'Mor Temporal Science Vessel, R.R.W. Vathos Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
Regarding DPS, CombatLogReader gets the job done better than any tool Cryptic could integrate into the game. Just use that.
The Threat generation / Threat Control mechanic is one of the most obscure and poorly-explained systems in STO. I have never seen a dev post explaining it. I assume the code behind it is as badly programmed and poorly documented as FAW and the exchange.
I'd love to see Threat numbers and I'd really like a detailed explanation of how it works. I won't hold my breath, though.
Indeed, as I mentioned my Sci can draw so much aggroo from a tac cube being pummeled by 4 Scimitars that it will start following me around like a lost puppy. The mechanic makes so little sense. It would be nice to see how much threat I actually have....... but yeah.... I doubt I can figure out why all that thread.
Cure ADV need 18k to handle the BOPs.
Your holds and Debuffs don't help if your swinging a wiffle ball bat.
Funny thing is, this exact mission is actually least dependent on DPS if you control things a bit.
3 decent controllers and a couple of guys who can swing some damage will make the easiest success.
A decent controller may not be able to insta-kill the spawns, but any half-decent controller can easily keep all spawns (BoPs, Raptors and Negs) at a single side back indefinitely - allowing the last two guys to leisurely swing around popping the cubes and the defence spawns one at a time, picking up the controllers as they go.
As long as they take the generators, followed by the actively attacking spawns and the the cube, the Kang won't take a single hit, and it'll be over fast, since they can focus much more of their damage at the cubes instead of having to spread it amongst all the spawns.
Of course the spawns have to be killed, but when they have to be - they'll always be nicely bunched up for those big DPS boats to get their DPS even higher.
Note: I'm not against DPS or a DPS measure. I'm against the silly idea that DPS is the only measure for contribution. A couple of well placed/timed GWs in ISA for example will ensure success more often than another 20k DPS boat.
Looks like there are 2 types of people who object to having an ingame DPS measurement system:
1. Clueless people who don't seem to realize that there already exists a DPS measurement system for this game, you just have to download it separately. If there is going to be any harrassment of low-DPS people, then there will be.
2. Elitists who want to deny the average player a useful tool for improving their performance while using it themselves.
Then there are those who want to talk about the value of healing and gravity wells and whatnot for mission completion, who should start their own thread about that instead of hijacking this one.
Don't blame the player for the way this game is setup. To achieve the mandatory "optional" in adv-elite, you usually have to beat a timer. The only way to beat a timer is to have a set minimum DPS for the team, and thus, a minimum DPS per player. Unless you have someone carrying you, which can be planned if you play in a not-pug team.
However, in PUG, you have to do a set minimum DPS to do your part.
That's how the game is made. Blame the devs if you don't like it, not the player.
Then don't blame the player for no longer holding probes or spheres or healing since none of those contribute to the mission's goals since DPS is the only skill needed. We should remove engineer and science officers from the game as well as their ships and and rename this World of Escorts. That how it's designed by the way.
Then there are those who want to talk about the value of healing and gravity wells and whatnot for mission completion, who should start their own thread about that instead of hijacking this one.
He called CC dead weight. We don't do enough DPS. He sucked us in like our useless GW sucks in the things bunched up for him to kill with his DPS. And a dead escort does no DPS. But a Scimitar is not an escort is it?
To those speaking on how Tractor Beam Repulsors aren't useful: Try using Graga Mal, guys... seriously.... it's science FAW.
Do I care when someone is out-DPS-ing me? HECK NO! It means I'm probably not going to be wasting my time in a pug, that's what it means. This isn't some stupid e-peen thing, this is about having a functional build in the game.
Gotta love those who are against a DPS meter- it pretty much confirms what I suspected about how the playerbase doesn't care about having a decent build, but will still gripe that the queues are empty. This is why they are empty, because players like myself cannot carry you lot any longer! And I stand by my comment about how low DPS means you are dead weight: In a game where there is a timer to beat, and there are situations where we must kill a certain enemy as fast as possible, I don't give a rat's behind if you can lock down those nanite spheres at the gate- you'd be better off helping me KILL THEM so that we don't have to run the risk of my getting killed and us failing the mission, or my making a mistake and us failing the mission because your gravity well ran out of juice.
The reason I am not in queues is because I am sick to death of dying over and over and over because a hotdog can't quit shooting generators and no one else is bothering with the spheres because the hotdogs think they can out DPS the incoming sphere heal and we fail because while I respawn, no one managed the spheres. Your dps is worthless in a failed mission because you ignored a required optional - don't let the sphere heal the generator.
Dont really care about a threat gen meter but an in game dps meter would be steller
^^ This.
Especially since the makers of this game, aka the Devs, have an endlessly better handle on the real numbers than third-party tools guessing. Sure, those can read out the CombatLog, of course, but only Cryptic could use finer granularity, such as Trait procs, etc.
Only if your dps meter reads the appropriate level can you enter the STF mission
This would work better...
Then add the gear score bulls**t and we can finish turning what's left of the game into a massive elitist sausage party. That's the kind of sh*t that made me leave WoW and Neverwinter. It's bad enough with the log parser as it is.
Only if your dps meter reads the appropriate level can you enter the STF mission
This would work better...
Awesome Idea! My Sci on his support vessel is looking forward to never seeing elite queues again - even if he's able to double the dmg output of the entire team and has buttloads of CC :rolleyes:
Only if your dps meter reads the appropriate level can you enter the STF mission
This would work better...
*facepalm
What do you think are DPS-channels for? Go and play with your DPS-friends!
Really: wtf is your problem? Some STFs that failed? Are they intended to be an auto success or are they intended to last just 3 minutes?
I really wonder if ppl don't have other problems than some failed STFs and DPS for years.
And btw I prefer a failed STF with kind teammates instead of unsocial DPS-dumbfu.. which don't even know that half of their damage is just from stacking betas of their teammates for example!
So Cryptic: Pls don't listen to that whining ones - it worked for years and it will work for the next years!
I have no idea what my DPS is and I really don't care. All of my builds I have made allow me to fill very specific roles. Don't have any problem in any stf I run so far and they are all pug's, I don't join thru special channels, sometime I will group up with fleet mates if they really need another person to fill the que.
Using this build (http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=lia_2083) I went into ISA on Tuesday night (CST) . There was 1 guy bent on attacking the gen's before taking care of cube so the other 3 players spent their time cleaning up his mess. I did what I built her to do, I controlled all of the probes and spheres coming out of the gate. I built her for crowd control, and the other players (not the one that popped the gens) gave me lots of thanks for the Crowd Control ability.
Don't get caught up on DPS, build what you want to build and play the way you want to play in both Normal and Advanced. In advanced if you are worried about possibly not doing enough damage then say so at the beginning of the match, unless you have a group of complete a^^hats someone will probably take you with them and provide support so you can get your marks, mats what ever so you can get the better eq to be more effective by yourself.
Elite is a whole different can of worms. Unless you gear is near max don't even try, i can only do 1 elite stf with 1 char and that is Bug Hunt Elite, with a lvl 60 eng char with mk xiv omega set with fleet kit and the special kit mods from the reps. And even then it gets close sometimes.
The downright hostility that low DPSers have toward people that want them to improve is ridiculous.
If you don't want to improve, and are going to be rude to those who want to help you, don't play aSTFs.
The downright hostility that high DPSers have toward people that want them to learn is ridiculous.
If you don't want to learn, and are going to be rude to those who want to help you, don't play aSTFs.
Every Joe Blogs can make himself a decent DPS build, run amok shooting stuff, and still fail a mission.
Someone with half a brain in a Tier 4 ship is regularly required to ensure that such groups does not fail Advanced STFs (talking PUGs here, since that's what I usually play).
It may stem from a lack of reading comprehension and not stupidity, though those tendencies often (but not always) goes hand in hand.
Comments
oh, and btw, from another topic:
I used to play the game 'World of Tanks' which has a website able to review everyones damage/skill score, and to be honest the amount of Epeen waving by the 'leet' few and abuse thrown at players not able to match the 'leet' players is disgusting ... Making WOT one of the worst communities around (Just check their forums - full of leet noob bashing)
What I am expecting to happen ...
" Noob, I cheked your damage and you only do 5k damage lol, you should just quit the game and life noob"
I wouldn't want that to happen here ...
Threat meter is worth having, but you have that already, really. You can show the target of your target. Since only bosses matter for threat (nothing else lives that long) you can see who the enemy is targeting. Good enough.
After I did, I realized what I was doing right, what I was doing wrong, and what changes work better.
Everyone should have easy access to it. I really don't see any good arguments against it... other than players who don't want a constant reminder that their build is a burden on others.
This is what I was on about... Because someone doesn't do as much damage as a DPS Leet guy they are labelled a 'burden'
And where is the cut-off point? If you do 5k then the 10k will call you a burden, then the 10k will get abused for daring to do an Advanced when the rest do 20k+ ... etc ...
And the 80k+ guys lording it over everyone, shoving their epeen dps down everyones throats.
No, DPS would cause too many problems.
However, in PUG, you have to do a set minimum DPS to do your part.
That's how the game is made. Blame the devs if you don't like it, not the player.
1. it only showed my DPS/ threat.
this would let me know how I was doing and what I might want to do different.
2. no one else could see my DPS/ threat.
this would prevent any imedit bashing of the low DPS people.
Douglas MacArthur - Quote on the dedication plaque of the U.S.S. Ranger NCC-97332-A Armitage class Fleet Heavy Strike Wing Escort.
The Threat generation / Threat Control mechanic is one of the most obscure and poorly-explained systems in STO. I have never seen a dev post explaining it. I assume the code behind it is as badly programmed and poorly documented as FAW and the exchange.
I'd love to see Threat numbers and I'd really like a detailed explanation of how it works. I won't hold my breath, though.
But at the same time DPS is not the most important aspect of the game and the sooner players realise this the better for everyone.
Take ISA for example:
I've played it many, many times in the last 2 weeks, in both a Pathfinder T6 and also a Phantom T6.
Now the Phantom does an TRIBBLE tonne more DPS than the Pathfinder could ever dream of but I have a lot more success in the Pathfinder because I can do the crowd control on the nanite spheres that the vast majority of players ignore in this mission. I've seen numerous runs fail because nobody bothered with CC'ing the spheres as they were all trying to DPS the transformers ans wave their e-peen about and nobody stopped the incoming threat.
Now maybe if we'd all been 15K+ cruisers or escorts we'd win each time. But I know for a fact that if I was in my Pathfinder the mission would never fail, despite that ship only putting out 8K DPS for most runs.
Am I a dead weight because i'm not busy flattening the transformers with massive DPS?
Or am I actually the most useful guy in the team because I've realised and used my strength (Crowd Control) to stop the mission failing and allow the DPS guys to attack the transformer unimpeded?
I suspect it's the latter.
DPS is not the only thing that maters, there's a lot of PVE queues that are easier to win with tactics and stealth than just storming in all guns blazing.
KIT ADV need over 8k to kill the probes
Cure ADV need 18k to handle the BOPs.
Your holds and Debuffs don't help if your swinging a wiffle ball bat.
This is becoming a normal theme in posts, I don't need DPS.
I will just let my team do all the killing, get the right tool for the right job.
99% of players with poor DPS have chosen the worst BOFF abilities.
Give KDF and FEDs the option to get 5 SROs.
- by measuring only dps, we undervalue the contribution of healers, tactics
- measuring dps is a way to see your improvement, which is valuable to players
- it's a distraction during the game; players focus on themselves and ignore the team
- dps is used as a stigma.. 'Bob' can't get about 6K, don't team with him.
- dps is used as a teaching tool - Let's help 'Bob' improve...
- the devs don't know what REAL dps is, I don't use the ingame monitor
- the dps meter is flawed, haxxored, innacurate
What I'd like to see is a Value Meter, that has dps as a component. per PLAYER
'Support' - hull and shield heals
'Tank' - amount of managed damage before dying
'DPS' - damage per second
With a breakdown at the end of the STF or Mission:
Best Healer
Best Tanker
Best Damage Dealer
The math isn't that difficult if you have all the necessary information in front of you. Take the total HP of the combined enemies, divide it by however many seconds you have to complete the mission. Divide that number by 5, and that is the minimum DPS you should be doing to avoid being a burden.
You don't have to be leet to run aSTFs, but you should be accountable to carry your own weight.
All I'm hearing is excuses from people unwilling to improve, yet feeling entitled to be dragged along to victories. There is a space between n00b and l33t called putting in an honest effort.
Do I care when someone is out-DPS-ing me? HECK NO! It means I'm probably not going to be wasting my time in a pug, that's what it means. This isn't some stupid e-peen thing, this is about having a functional build in the game.
Gotta love those who are against a DPS meter- it pretty much confirms what I suspected about how the playerbase doesn't care about having a decent build, but will still gripe that the queues are empty. This is why they are empty, because players like myself cannot carry you lot any longer! And I stand by my comment about how low DPS means you are dead weight: In a game where there is a timer to beat, and there are situations where we must kill a certain enemy as fast as possible, I don't give a rat's behind if you can lock down those nanite spheres at the gate- you'd be better off helping me KILL THEM so that we don't have to run the risk of my getting killed and us failing the mission, or my making a mistake and us failing the mission because your gravity well ran out of juice.
Odan Brota (Science Officer): Captain of a 28k DPS Scryer Intel Science Vessel, U.S.S. Kepler
Patiently waiting for a Romulan Science Vessel
Indeed, as I mentioned my Sci can draw so much aggroo from a tac cube being pummeled by 4 Scimitars that it will start following me around like a lost puppy. The mechanic makes so little sense. It would be nice to see how much threat I actually have....... but yeah.... I doubt I can figure out why all that thread.
3 decent controllers and a couple of guys who can swing some damage will make the easiest success.
A decent controller may not be able to insta-kill the spawns, but any half-decent controller can easily keep all spawns (BoPs, Raptors and Negs) at a single side back indefinitely - allowing the last two guys to leisurely swing around popping the cubes and the defence spawns one at a time, picking up the controllers as they go.
As long as they take the generators, followed by the actively attacking spawns and the the cube, the Kang won't take a single hit, and it'll be over fast, since they can focus much more of their damage at the cubes instead of having to spread it amongst all the spawns.
Of course the spawns have to be killed, but when they have to be - they'll always be nicely bunched up for those big DPS boats to get their DPS even higher.
Note: I'm not against DPS or a DPS measure. I'm against the silly idea that DPS is the only measure for contribution. A couple of well placed/timed GWs in ISA for example will ensure success more often than another 20k DPS boat.
1. Clueless people who don't seem to realize that there already exists a DPS measurement system for this game, you just have to download it separately. If there is going to be any harrassment of low-DPS people, then there will be.
2. Elitists who want to deny the average player a useful tool for improving their performance while using it themselves.
Then there are those who want to talk about the value of healing and gravity wells and whatnot for mission completion, who should start their own thread about that instead of hijacking this one.
Then don't blame the player for no longer holding probes or spheres or healing since none of those contribute to the mission's goals since DPS is the only skill needed. We should remove engineer and science officers from the game as well as their ships and and rename this World of Escorts. That how it's designed by the way.
He called CC dead weight. We don't do enough DPS. He sucked us in like our useless GW sucks in the things bunched up for him to kill with his DPS. And a dead escort does no DPS. But a Scimitar is not an escort is it?
The reason I am not in queues is because I am sick to death of dying over and over and over because a hotdog can't quit shooting generators and no one else is bothering with the spheres because the hotdogs think they can out DPS the incoming sphere heal and we fail because while I respawn, no one managed the spheres. Your dps is worthless in a failed mission because you ignored a required optional - don't let the sphere heal the generator.
^^ This.
Especially since the makers of this game, aka the Devs, have an endlessly better handle on the real numbers than third-party tools guessing. Sure, those can read out the CombatLog, of course, but only Cryptic could use finer granularity, such as Trait procs, etc.
World of tanks - Terrible community, DPS meter has poisoned the community
Guildwars 2 - 'LFG ZERK Ascended only' (Wear berserker ascended stat armour only otherwise you are a hindrance to the team)
Maybe to improve DPS amongst new-ish players there should be some sort of in-game training queued missions where vets can help new players improve.
0-10k dps normal
11-25k ps Advanced
26k+ Elite
Only if your dps meter reads the appropriate level can you enter the STF mission
This would work better...
Then add the gear score bulls**t and we can finish turning what's left of the game into a massive elitist sausage party. That's the kind of sh*t that made me leave WoW and Neverwinter. It's bad enough with the log parser as it is.
Awesome Idea! My Sci on his support vessel is looking forward to never seeing elite queues again - even if he's able to double the dmg output of the entire team and has buttloads of CC :rolleyes:
*facepalm
What do you think are DPS-channels for? Go and play with your DPS-friends!
Really: wtf is your problem? Some STFs that failed? Are they intended to be an auto success or are they intended to last just 3 minutes?
I really wonder if ppl don't have other problems than some failed STFs and DPS for years.
And btw I prefer a failed STF with kind teammates instead of unsocial DPS-dumbfu.. which don't even know that half of their damage is just from stacking betas of their teammates for example!
So Cryptic: Pls don't listen to that whining ones - it worked for years and it will work for the next years!
If you don't want to improve, and are going to be rude to those who want to help you, don't play aSTFs.
Using this build (http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=lia_2083) I went into ISA on Tuesday night (CST) . There was 1 guy bent on attacking the gen's before taking care of cube so the other 3 players spent their time cleaning up his mess. I did what I built her to do, I controlled all of the probes and spheres coming out of the gate. I built her for crowd control, and the other players (not the one that popped the gens) gave me lots of thanks for the Crowd Control ability.
Don't get caught up on DPS, build what you want to build and play the way you want to play in both Normal and Advanced. In advanced if you are worried about possibly not doing enough damage then say so at the beginning of the match, unless you have a group of complete a^^hats someone will probably take you with them and provide support so you can get your marks, mats what ever so you can get the better eq to be more effective by yourself.
Elite is a whole different can of worms. Unless you gear is near max don't even try, i can only do 1 elite stf with 1 char and that is Bug Hunt Elite, with a lvl 60 eng char with mk xiv omega set with fleet kit and the special kit mods from the reps. And even then it gets close sometimes.
If you don't want to learn, and are going to be rude to those who want to help you, don't play aSTFs.
Every Joe Blogs can make himself a decent DPS build, run amok shooting stuff, and still fail a mission.
Someone with half a brain in a Tier 4 ship is regularly required to ensure that such groups does not fail Advanced STFs (talking PUGs here, since that's what I usually play).
It may stem from a lack of reading comprehension and not stupidity, though those tendencies often (but not always) goes hand in hand.