build what you want to build and play the way you want to play
It's kind of funny that this would be what brings me out of my self-imposed hiatus (pretty short, but it felt like years); but out of all the stupid things I've seen posted in the past couple of days, this simply deserved a reply.
First on the matter of the thread though, I have to say I disagree. While I believe everybody should parse, I'm not a fan of public DPS meters nor of folks posting DPS in groups or on the forums. I've posted info from logs on the forums...with the other player names removed. It could be seen as a form of naming and shaming to do otherwise, to post it without their permission, etc, etc, etc.
Still, I believe everybody should parse so they have an idea of how they are doing compared to other folks. Bunch of folks think they are doing something, when they're not really doing what they think they're doing. "Oh, my damage is low but I'm doing XYZ." Well, there are folks doing XYZ without the low damage. There is always room for improvement, but without seeing where one actually is how are they going to know? Some gut feeling? With the general lack of understanding of even the most basic game mechanics that is commonly displayed, it's no wonder those gut feelings tend not to match up with any of the numbers out there.
However, I do not feel it's actually my place to come out and tell somebody they're doing it wrong in the way many out there do - nah, let the folks see for themselves just how poorly they're doing and try to provide a healthy environment in which they can seek out folks to improve. It's like sending the folks over to the DPS crowd with the warning that the DPS folks might be a bit on the blunt side, but those guys are generally more than willing to help those that are looking for help. Yeah, they get into it from time to time with the severely butthurt but look at all the work they do in trying to help those that want help, eh? So is the problem them or the severely butthurt, right?
So yeah, I believe that everybody should parse and have an idea of where they stand on that - also believe that if somebody is looking to do something other than pure DPS, that they make the effort to understand exactly what else they can do while taking a look around at other folks that are doing the same or similar...along with what actual DPS they're putting out while doing that. Cause there are various roles one can do to be a productive member of a team...
build what you want to build and play the way you want to play
That's all fine and dandy if you're off playing solo. If you're going through missions, patrols, or whatever. The moment you queue up for a team event/instance/mission/etc, it is no longer just about you. It is about the team. Going into something like that with a build what you want and play the way you want attitude is asinine and selfish. I mean, seriously, GTFO of here with that garbage. I fly all sorts of trippy, flaky, goofball stuff if I'm off doing solo play...cause it's just me. The moment I think about joining a queue, then I've got to think different - because it's not just me. There are four other people on the team.
I don't give a rat's TRIBBLE about any personal requirements some folks put on content out there because they want an ultra smooth run that's done in the blink of an eye, but I firmly believe that folks should build for the team and meet the content's actual requirements before joining the queue.
Personal parsing and talking builds with others, of their own initiative, could help with that...and I believe it would improve the overall quality of life for PVE play in the game. People sharing ideas, theorycrafting, improving, having fun while doing it...all good things, right?
Public DPS, the potential mocking, the potential butthurt, the closed eyes and ears, folks becoming even more adamant about their special snowflake builds, none of that in my humble opinion would help the qualify of life for PVE play in the game. Sure, it might make the forums more entertaining from time to time; but even that gets tedious over time.
It's kind of funny that this would be what brings me out of my self-imposed hiatus (pretty short, but it felt like years); but out of all the stupid things I've seen posted in the past couple of days, this simply deserved a reply.
First on the matter of the thread though, I have to say I disagree. While I believe everybody should parse, I'm not a fan of public DPS meters nor of folks posting DPS in groups or on the forums. I've posted info from logs on the forums...with the other player names removed. It could be seen as a form of naming and shaming to do otherwise, to post it without their permission, etc, etc, etc.
Still, I believe everybody should parse so they have an idea of how they are doing compared to other folks. Bunch of folks think they are doing something, when they're not really doing what they think they're doing. "Oh, my damage is low but I'm doing XYZ." Well, there are folks doing XYZ without the low damage. There is always room for improvement, but without seeing where one actually is how are they going to know? Some gut feeling? With the general lack of understanding of even the most basic game mechanics that is commonly displayed, it's no wonder those gut feelings tend not to match up with any of the numbers out there.
However, I do not feel it's actually my place to come out and tell somebody they're doing it wrong in the way many out there do - nah, let the folks see for themselves just how poorly they're doing and try to provide a healthy environment in which they can seek out folks to improve. It's like sending the folks over to the DPS crowd with the warning that the DPS folks might be a bit on the blunt side, but those guys are generally more than willing to help those that are looking for help. Yeah, they get into it from time to time with the severely butthurt but look at all the work they do in trying to help those that want help, eh? So is the problem them or the severely butthurt, right?
So yeah, I believe that everybody should parse and have an idea of where they stand on that - also believe that if somebody is looking to do something other than pure DPS, that they make the effort to understand exactly what else they can do while taking a look around at other folks that are doing the same or similar...along with what actual DPS they're putting out while doing that. Cause there are various roles one can do to be a productive member of a team...
...which gets back to this:
That's all fine and dandy if you're off playing solo. If you're going through missions, patrols, or whatever. The moment you queue up for a team event/instance/mission/etc, it is no longer just about you. It is about the team. Going into something like that with a build what you want and play the way you want attitude is asinine and selfish. I mean, seriously, GTFO of here with that garbage. I fly all sorts of trippy, flaky, goofball stuff if I'm off doing solo play...cause it's just me. The moment I think about joining a queue, then I've got to think different - because it's not just me. There are four other people on the team.
I don't give a rat's TRIBBLE about any personal requirements some folks put on content out there because they want an ultra smooth run that's done in the blink of an eye, but I firmly believe that folks should build for the team and meet the content's actual requirements before joining the queue.
Personal parsing and talking builds with others, of their own initiative, could help with that...and I believe it would improve the overall quality of life for PVE play in the game. People sharing ideas, theorycrafting, improving, having fun while doing it...all good things, right?
Public DPS, the potential mocking, the potential butthurt, the closed eyes and ears, folks becoming even more adamant about their special snowflake builds, none of that in my humble opinion would help the qualify of life for PVE play in the game. Sure, it might make the forums more entertaining from time to time; but even that gets tedious over time.
I agree with everything you said wholeheartedly.
Personally, I'm not a fan of public DPS either. I *would* like an ingame, private DPS meter, though, because, like I said, Cryptic could lace the metrics with awesome cool stats, like how many times your Traits proc and such: things a third-party parser can't do.
Personally, I'm not a fan of public DPS either. I *would* like an ingame, private DPS meter, though, because, like I said, Cryptic could lace the metrics with awesome cool stats, like how many times your Traits proc and such: things a third-party parser can't do.
Like I said. A meter that the player can see to know how they are doing.
Why not expand it to include damage taken for the tanks, and damage healed for the healers.
"The soldier above all others prays for peace, for it is the soldier who must suffer and bear the deepest wounds and scars of war."
Douglas MacArthur - Quote on the dedication plaque of the U.S.S. Ranger NCC-97332-A Armitage class Fleet Heavy Strike Wing Escort.
What do you think are DPS-channels for? Go and play with your DPS-friends!
Really: wtf is your problem? Some STFs that failed? Are they intended to be an auto success or are they intended to last just 3 minutes?
I really wonder if ppl don't have other problems than some failed STFs and DPS for years.
And btw I prefer a failed STF with kind teammates instead of unsocial DPS-dumbfu.. which don't even know that half of their damage is just from stacking betas of their teammates for example!
So Cryptic: Pls don't listen to that whining ones - it worked for years and it will work for the next years!
My problem is with the guys who fly in 'NORMAL' stf's and abuse people for not doing enough damage/using special consoles...
They don't have the b**ls to try Advanced or Elite but spam normal with chat about how leet they are and how pathetic everyone else is.
(Previous post of mine was about some guy spouting verbal in a normal stf because someone else had the audacity to use the 3 piece Scimitar special instead of sticking DPS modules on it.)
I'm just trying to make sure the A*****es who do 10-15k dps are put in the appropriate Stf, (why stick a premier footballer in a sunday pub team?)
I'm not 'leet'... far from it, but I am willing to improve... what I don't want is some no-lifer spamming about how in normal I should be doing 20K+ or I should quit the game...
I see no problem with a personal DPS meter, if it is possible for them to do. However a public one would be a no-no to me, on the other hand I can see why people want one like this.
Maybe a compromise would be a private DPS meter where you can link together at your choice with friends so you can see how you are all doing. If a stranger asks you to link you can say no if you want.
My problem is with the guys who fly in 'NORMAL' stf's and abuse people for not doing enough damage/using special consoles...
They don't have the b**ls to try Advanced or Elite but spam normal with chat about how leet they are and how pathetic everyone else is.
(Previous post of mine was about some guy spouting verbal in a normal stf because someone else had the audacity to use the 3 piece Scimitar special instead of sticking DPS modules on it.)
I'm just trying to make sure the A*****es who do 10-15k dps are put in the appropriate Stf, (why stick a premier footballer in a sunday pub team?)
I'm not 'leet'... far from it, but I am willing to improve... what I don't want is some no-lifer spamming about how in normal I should be doing 20K+ or I should quit the game...
While your intentions might be good, your suggestion won't work for some reason. Even (or especially) the uber-1337-high-dps folks need debuffers and support on their teams that deal low damage. If elite was for >30k dps players only, those support players would be excluded from elite resulting in average lower dps for the rest of the team.
And that's why I also hate the idea of public dps meters. Veteran players on their support Toons will get flamed for having low dps and not beeing useful :rolleyes:
The downright hostility that low DPSers have toward people that want them to improve is ridiculous.
If you don't want to improve, and are going to be rude to those who want to help you, don't play aSTFs.
There is no hostility that "low DPSers" have. Many of those "low DPSers" have been very thankful when they asked me to improve their builds! It's just a rude gesture if you guys keep on punching combat log numbers into the "low DPSers" faces!
Posting Logs without beeing asked for is an epic e-peen fail anyway...
I have no idea what my DPS is and I really don't care. All of my builds I have made allow me to fill very specific roles. Don't have any problem in any stf I run so far and they are all pug's, I don't join thru special channels, sometime I will group up with fleet mates if they really need another person to fill the que.
Using this build (http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=lia_2083) I went into ISA on Tuesday night (CST) . There was 1 guy bent on attacking the gen's before taking care of cube so the other 3 players spent their time cleaning up his mess. I did what I built her to do, I controlled all of the probes and spheres coming out of the gate. I built her for crowd control, and the other players (not the one that popped the gens) gave me lots of thanks for the Crowd Control ability.
Don't get caught up on DPS, build what you want to build and play the way you want to play in both Normal and Advanced. In advanced if you are worried about possibly not doing enough damage then say so at the beginning of the match, unless you have a group of complete a^^hats someone will probably take you with them and provide support so you can get your marks, mats what ever so you can get the better eq to be more effective by yourself.
Elite is a whole different can of worms. Unless you gear is near max don't even try, i can only do 1 elite stf with 1 char and that is Bug Hunt Elite, with a lvl 60 eng char with mk xiv omega set with fleet kit and the special kit mods from the reps. And even then it gets close sometimes.
I actually firmly believe in this idealology, which is why I really don't play anymore. Everything is so DPS centric there is no point to all my other characters that serve a function, because why function when DPS always works?
Maybe because not everyone without 20k+ DPS is dead weight?
My science character usually don't go much above 5k on a good day, but I can crowd control enough to easily hold off the nanite spheres while a bunch of other 5k'ers whittle the generator down.
Perhaps they blamed you because they assumed (without making you aware of it) that you would keep the nanite spheres away as you were science?
Sometimes (albeit rarely) a PUG will actually see beyond DPS and expect people to do specific things their characters should be best suited for. It's rare, and they usually never say if it's the case though.....
Yeah, I crowd control. Destroyed ships are completely under control....
My problem is with the guys who fly in 'NORMAL' stf's and abuse people for not doing enough damage/using special consoles...
They don't have the b**ls to try Advanced or Elite but spam normal with chat about how leet they are and how pathetic everyone else is.
(Previous post of mine was about some guy spouting verbal in a normal stf because someone else had the audacity to use the 3 piece Scimitar special instead of sticking DPS modules on it.)
I'm just trying to make sure the A*****es who do 10-15k dps are put in the appropriate Stf, (why stick a premier footballer in a sunday pub team?)
I'm not 'leet'... far from it, but I am willing to improve... what I don't want is some no-lifer spamming about how in normal I should be doing 20K+ or I should quit the game...
The gab between the rich and the poor ones is getting bigger all the time and its the same to low and high dps and players are getting more dissatisfied from season to season because of so many reasons, little or no rewards included, and people are getting more and more selfish ... that's not just an ingame problem btw and you won't resolve these problems by implementing a dps-meter, rankings or by segregation. All of these 3 things will make it worse - more selfishness and more dissatisfaction will be the result.
And btw there are not just a...les that do 10-15k+ dps running a normal STF with pugs. I really like to queue with new fleetmembers or people that are totally new to the game and I would never react like the person you mentioned above if anything.
Combat log reader has been the single most important tool in helping me figure out what to equip my ship with, whether it be for damage dealing or healing. I don't keep the dps numbers up while im playing though since I cant think about numbers while at the same time playing the game.
I believe that there is a difference between having a mentality of making bigger numbers appear versus playing the game more effectively so that big numbers appear at the end. This applies whether the task is dps, tanking, healing or draining. The latter of which I really wish there is a way to measure. I use CLR as something of a post-match analysis to see how I can improve.
"My attacks per second too low? I knew it! That time when I didnt keep the targets in my firing arc for a while must have lowered it"
"Pets not doing much according to logs... oh lol I forgot to set them to attack mode."
"Oh wow console X boosted my healing/dps by a lot. Its a clear upgrade over console Y"
It would definitely be nice of the game could have such a way tp help us improve, but as of now its only possible with 3rd party tools.
Why do people always mention these as if nerfing them would actually hurt super high DPSers?
Because balance...
I'd like to see Sci and Eng Captains be more valuable than they are right now. You could simply buff Sci and Eng aswell, but that's only going to break PvP even more than it is right now. So the answer to this problem is: nerf high dps builds.
Doesn't the fact that a stupid 1 key spacebar build is the most effective in this game clearly showing that something is terribly wrong?
When I first installed ACT (I now use CLR) back in the day, I was doing about 5-6k DPS. Within a month, I was doing 9-10k DPS. Now with lvl60 and upgrades, I'm approaching 20k. Being able to measure the extent of affect from every change is critical.
I'm not interested in any DPS contest, because I know there are people out there doing 5-6x more DPS than me. The point is, I'm a much more effective player because I take the time to check my data and make an effort to improve.
Doesn't the fact that a stupid 1 key spacebar build is the most effective in this game clearly showing that something is terribly wrong?
The fact that you think "a stupid 1 key spacebar build is the most effective in this game" clearly shows you don't know what you're talking about. :rolleyes:
Back when I did ~15k, switching from spamming spacebar to actually timing my abilities increased my DPS by almost 4k.
The fact that you think "a stupid 1 key spacebar build is the most effective in this game" clearly shows you don't know what you're talking about. :rolleyes:
I think you missunderstood what I was saying on purpose. Almost everyone knows that there's activation times and bad timing for skills in any chain. My point was, that the most simple build (which can hardly be done wrong) is the most effective. All you need to do is activating a basic skill rotation at the right time and know something about positioning.
You can be a big noob and still easily be able to pull off >60k dps if you learn some very basic things.
And that feels just wrong cuz it's almost like build>>>skill
The fact that you think "a stupid 1 key spacebar build is the most effective in this game" clearly shows you don't know what you're talking about. :rolleyes:
I saw that comming! :rolleyes: If you would have read it in context you maybe wouldn't have been overlooked the intentional overstatement.
I'd like to see Sci and Eng Captains be more valuable than they are right now. You could simply buff Sci and Eng aswell, but that's only going to break PvP even more than it is right now. So the answer to this problem is: nerf high dps builds.
Doesn't the fact that a stupid 1 key spacebar build is the most effective in this game clearly showing that something is terribly wrong?
You take out Scimitars, BFAW and APB and we will just use something else. You want to nerf that? Fine. We will swap to 3rd best items. Nerf those? We swap to 4th place stuff.
We will still be doing a good 40k DPS on our 4th place stuff - probably more given we would put a lot more effort into it under the circumstances - rest of the playerbase will have been so f**ked over they couldn't hope to do even a quarter of that without a drastic reshape of player knowledge and ability.
You nerf our 4th place stuff and we will be back to full on torp boats, and we can do 25k DPS on T1 ships using torps. You are not going to beat DPSers by nerfs unless you want to kill every players effectiveness, at least for a year or so while the average player adapts.
You want to fix PvE? Stop making it require damage and pure damage to complete it in the optimum amount of time - because that is all STO PvE is.
Fact is, no PvE is faster completed by non-DPS than it is by DPS, whereas that should only be true for KDF faction content.
Fed stuff you should want to bring a Horizon (feel free to go look it up, it's a T3 Science ship, with T5 retrofits - the rarest ships in STO) over an Avenger, because that is what Feds are like in the shows.
Oh, and if you do think binding everything to spacebar actually works vaguely well, you haven't actually tried binding everything to spacebar.
I know there will be howls at what I am about to say... but still...
There's fun to be had from failure, too... and it's a good learning tool... and any team activity (such as ISA) will always feature 'stronger' and 'weaker' DPS members. Shock horror.
If all team members are actively-involved and trying their best, either to win or to learn, then I personally don't care if the run results in failure. In other words, I expect failure from PUG ISAs so success makes me warm inside.
The only thing that gets my goat is the AFK player, whether sat lurking in a 30k dps-boat or not... as they are simply not contributing or trying.
As for an in-game DPS meter... I've played tons of MMOs over tons of years and though they can help fine-tune and assist aspiration, they can also lead to elitism and an erosion of inclusion... so I'd not like to see one in-built.
I use this DPS meter to test builds out and mark my own progress... but FWIW, don't judge others based on their DPS output, low or high.
You take out Scimitars, BFAW and APB and we will just use something else. You want to nerf that? Fine. We will swap to 3rd best items. Nerf those? We swap to 4th place stuff.
....
You want to fix PvE? Stop making it require damage and pure damage to complete it in the optimum amount of time - because that is all STO PvE is.
Well, I believe that removing the ability to stack betas could be enough to bring back Sci and Eng Ships into buisiness
Oh, and if you do think binding everything to spacebar actually works vaguely well, you haven't actually tried binding everything to spacebar.
See my post above I know that you can do better, but if you're lazy, you still can spam your spacebar deal >60k dps and sing along with the trololo man...
Well, I believe that removing the ability to stack betas could be enough to bring back Sci and Eng Ships into buisiness
And that's why STO PvE is a joke. There's a reason why I'm mainly into PvP...
See my post above I know that you can do better, but if you're lazy, you still can spam your spacebar deal >60k dps and sing along with the trololo man...
APB to a 100k+ DPS ship is worth, ooo, about 30k DPS by itself, and current DPS and time record is set on APB1, not APB3. It is not as much as everyone thinks it is.
In fact, a typical decent but not brilliant player's 10-20k DPS will only gain 2-4k from full APB stacking.
Agreed. It could be brilliant, but instead we just have turkey shoots...
And if you can do 60k by spacebar spam you could do a lot more and be vastly more useful while doing it if you bothered to fly properly.
APB to a 100k+ DPS ship is worth, ooo, about 30k DPS by itself, and current DPS and time record is set on APB1, not APB3. It is not as much as everyone thinks it is.
In fact, a typical decent but not brilliant player's 10-20k DPS will only gain 2-4k from full APB stacking.
Last time I checked raw dmg output values VS net out (including beta stacks) the difference was even higher than 300% on average up to 800% on some rare hits. So I don't buy the 2-4k from beta stacks (have to admit though, that those numbers weren't from a pug game)
And if you can do 60k by spacebar spam you could do a lot more and be vastly more useful while doing it if you bothered to fly properly.
Absolutely correct (if you define a Tacs usefulness through dps). But why would I bother in this nonsense PvE Content we are having now?
To me PvE content is boring and I do it because I need to. Therefore I do it the most simple way and hammer my spacebar. Maybe this makes you feel better: I'm using up to 40 different keybinds on my PvP Builds
Last time I checked raw dmg output values VS net out (including beta stacks) the difference was even higher than 300% on average up to 800% on some rare hits. So I don't buy the 2-4k from beta stacks (have to admit though, that those numbers weren't from a pug game)
Absolutely correct (if you define a Tacs usefulness through dps). But why would I bother in this nonsense PvE Content we are having now?
To me PvE content is boring and I do it because I need to. Therefore I do it the most simple way and hammer my spacebar. Maybe this makes you feel better: I'm using up to 40 different keybinds on my PvP Builds
Well, that is how it works out, the top DPS guys can just about double base DPS from stacked teamwide buffs and debuffs - If you want to do better they will welcome the competition. I don't bother as I simply cannot afford to compete, but if you can...
Because you can do your PvE grind even quicker? Why do you think we collectively bother to try this DPS racing lark, it isn't for the records you know, nor lording it over other players.
In a game where damage is the only significant metric, you kinda have to define usefulness in terms of damage. That is a separate issue to the broken system in the first place.
What game doesn't though? You're doing damage, taking damage, healing damage, avoiding damage...what game doesn't do that?
See second sentence - it is a broken system to begin with.
Star Trek Online - the name would imply an MMO set in the Star Trek universe. What we have is a not particularly good space game that is just skinned as Star Trek.
Let's go back to my earlier point about the Horizon vs an Avenger. In STO, only one is desirable. To the Federation's position, it is the wrong one - to the actual IP, the hospital ship would be more valuable than the warship.
In STO, the Avenger is downright common, the Horizon? I have never seen someone use either T5 variant. Never.
Yet, we can all think of situations where a Galaxy-class would be valuable for it's capability to be an excellent cruiser, or an Intrepid for long range exploration (they made a series out of that FFS) - but in STO, all that matters is the defiant for it's firepower.
it isn't for the records you know, nor lording it over other players. .
You say this, but your group never publishs a walk through guide on how to do a 100k DPS run , instead post videos of record runs isn't that lording.
True champions lead by example with a helping hand.
Comments
It's kind of funny that this would be what brings me out of my self-imposed hiatus (pretty short, but it felt like years); but out of all the stupid things I've seen posted in the past couple of days, this simply deserved a reply.
First on the matter of the thread though, I have to say I disagree. While I believe everybody should parse, I'm not a fan of public DPS meters nor of folks posting DPS in groups or on the forums. I've posted info from logs on the forums...with the other player names removed. It could be seen as a form of naming and shaming to do otherwise, to post it without their permission, etc, etc, etc.
Still, I believe everybody should parse so they have an idea of how they are doing compared to other folks. Bunch of folks think they are doing something, when they're not really doing what they think they're doing. "Oh, my damage is low but I'm doing XYZ." Well, there are folks doing XYZ without the low damage. There is always room for improvement, but without seeing where one actually is how are they going to know? Some gut feeling? With the general lack of understanding of even the most basic game mechanics that is commonly displayed, it's no wonder those gut feelings tend not to match up with any of the numbers out there.
However, I do not feel it's actually my place to come out and tell somebody they're doing it wrong in the way many out there do - nah, let the folks see for themselves just how poorly they're doing and try to provide a healthy environment in which they can seek out folks to improve. It's like sending the folks over to the DPS crowd with the warning that the DPS folks might be a bit on the blunt side, but those guys are generally more than willing to help those that are looking for help. Yeah, they get into it from time to time with the severely butthurt but look at all the work they do in trying to help those that want help, eh? So is the problem them or the severely butthurt, right?
So yeah, I believe that everybody should parse and have an idea of where they stand on that - also believe that if somebody is looking to do something other than pure DPS, that they make the effort to understand exactly what else they can do while taking a look around at other folks that are doing the same or similar...along with what actual DPS they're putting out while doing that. Cause there are various roles one can do to be a productive member of a team...
...which gets back to this:
That's all fine and dandy if you're off playing solo. If you're going through missions, patrols, or whatever. The moment you queue up for a team event/instance/mission/etc, it is no longer just about you. It is about the team. Going into something like that with a build what you want and play the way you want attitude is asinine and selfish. I mean, seriously, GTFO of here with that garbage. I fly all sorts of trippy, flaky, goofball stuff if I'm off doing solo play...cause it's just me. The moment I think about joining a queue, then I've got to think different - because it's not just me. There are four other people on the team.
I don't give a rat's TRIBBLE about any personal requirements some folks put on content out there because they want an ultra smooth run that's done in the blink of an eye, but I firmly believe that folks should build for the team and meet the content's actual requirements before joining the queue.
Personal parsing and talking builds with others, of their own initiative, could help with that...and I believe it would improve the overall quality of life for PVE play in the game. People sharing ideas, theorycrafting, improving, having fun while doing it...all good things, right?
Public DPS, the potential mocking, the potential butthurt, the closed eyes and ears, folks becoming even more adamant about their special snowflake builds, none of that in my humble opinion would help the qualify of life for PVE play in the game. Sure, it might make the forums more entertaining from time to time; but even that gets tedious over time.
I agree with everything you said wholeheartedly.
Personally, I'm not a fan of public DPS either. I *would* like an ingame, private DPS meter, though, because, like I said, Cryptic could lace the metrics with awesome cool stats, like how many times your Traits proc and such: things a third-party parser can't do.
Like I said. A meter that the player can see to know how they are doing.
Why not expand it to include damage taken for the tanks, and damage healed for the healers.
Douglas MacArthur - Quote on the dedication plaque of the U.S.S. Ranger NCC-97332-A Armitage class Fleet Heavy Strike Wing Escort.
My problem is with the guys who fly in 'NORMAL' stf's and abuse people for not doing enough damage/using special consoles...
They don't have the b**ls to try Advanced or Elite but spam normal with chat about how leet they are and how pathetic everyone else is.
(Previous post of mine was about some guy spouting verbal in a normal stf because someone else had the audacity to use the 3 piece Scimitar special instead of sticking DPS modules on it.)
I'm just trying to make sure the A*****es who do 10-15k dps are put in the appropriate Stf, (why stick a premier footballer in a sunday pub team?)
I'm not 'leet'... far from it, but I am willing to improve... what I don't want is some no-lifer spamming about how in normal I should be doing 20K+ or I should quit the game...
Maybe a compromise would be a private DPS meter where you can link together at your choice with friends so you can see how you are all doing. If a stranger asks you to link you can say no if you want.
While your intentions might be good, your suggestion won't work for some reason. Even (or especially) the uber-1337-high-dps folks need debuffers and support on their teams that deal low damage. If elite was for >30k dps players only, those support players would be excluded from elite resulting in average lower dps for the rest of the team.
And that's why I also hate the idea of public dps meters. Veteran players on their support Toons will get flamed for having low dps and not beeing useful :rolleyes:
Oh and btw:
There is no hostility that "low DPSers" have. Many of those "low DPSers" have been very thankful when they asked me to improve their builds! It's just a rude gesture if you guys keep on punching combat log numbers into the "low DPSers" faces!
Posting Logs without beeing asked for is an epic e-peen fail anyway...
I actually firmly believe in this idealology, which is why I really don't play anymore. Everything is so DPS centric there is no point to all my other characters that serve a function, because why function when DPS always works?
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Yeah, I crowd control. Destroyed ships are completely under control....
1) How broken this game is (PvE wise) -> dps > all, there's no need for anything else (which is a lie btw)
2) You seem to not see any connection between other players CC and a dps boost for your ship
Cryptic really needs to stop beta stacking and nerf FAW until players finally realize the wonders of good CC again
The gab between the rich and the poor ones is getting bigger all the time and its the same to low and high dps and players are getting more dissatisfied from season to season because of so many reasons, little or no rewards included, and people are getting more and more selfish ... that's not just an ingame problem btw and you won't resolve these problems by implementing a dps-meter, rankings or by segregation. All of these 3 things will make it worse - more selfishness and more dissatisfaction will be the result.
And btw there are not just a...les that do 10-15k+ dps running a normal STF with pugs. I really like to queue with new fleetmembers or people that are totally new to the game and I would never react like the person you mentioned above if anything.
I believe that there is a difference between having a mentality of making bigger numbers appear versus playing the game more effectively so that big numbers appear at the end. This applies whether the task is dps, tanking, healing or draining. The latter of which I really wish there is a way to measure. I use CLR as something of a post-match analysis to see how I can improve.
"My attacks per second too low? I knew it! That time when I didnt keep the targets in my firing arc for a while must have lowered it"
"Pets not doing much according to logs... oh lol I forgot to set them to attack mode."
"Oh wow console X boosted my healing/dps by a lot. Its a clear upgrade over console Y"
It would definitely be nice of the game could have such a way tp help us improve, but as of now its only possible with 3rd party tools.
Why do people always mention these as if nerfing them would actually hurt super high DPSers?
Because balance...
I'd like to see Sci and Eng Captains be more valuable than they are right now. You could simply buff Sci and Eng aswell, but that's only going to break PvP even more than it is right now. So the answer to this problem is: nerf high dps builds.
Doesn't the fact that a stupid 1 key spacebar build is the most effective in this game clearly showing that something is terribly wrong?
I'm not interested in any DPS contest, because I know there are people out there doing 5-6x more DPS than me. The point is, I'm a much more effective player because I take the time to check my data and make an effort to improve.
The fact that you think "a stupid 1 key spacebar build is the most effective in this game" clearly shows you don't know what you're talking about. :rolleyes:
Back when I did ~15k, switching from spamming spacebar to actually timing my abilities increased my DPS by almost 4k.
You can be a big noob and still easily be able to pull off >60k dps if you learn some very basic things.
And that feels just wrong cuz it's almost like build>>>skill
I saw that comming! :rolleyes: If you would have read it in context you maybe wouldn't have been overlooked the intentional overstatement.
You take out Scimitars, BFAW and APB and we will just use something else. You want to nerf that? Fine. We will swap to 3rd best items. Nerf those? We swap to 4th place stuff.
We will still be doing a good 40k DPS on our 4th place stuff - probably more given we would put a lot more effort into it under the circumstances - rest of the playerbase will have been so f**ked over they couldn't hope to do even a quarter of that without a drastic reshape of player knowledge and ability.
You nerf our 4th place stuff and we will be back to full on torp boats, and we can do 25k DPS on T1 ships using torps. You are not going to beat DPSers by nerfs unless you want to kill every players effectiveness, at least for a year or so while the average player adapts.
You want to fix PvE? Stop making it require damage and pure damage to complete it in the optimum amount of time - because that is all STO PvE is.
Fact is, no PvE is faster completed by non-DPS than it is by DPS, whereas that should only be true for KDF faction content.
Fed stuff you should want to bring a Horizon (feel free to go look it up, it's a T3 Science ship, with T5 retrofits - the rarest ships in STO) over an Avenger, because that is what Feds are like in the shows.
Oh, and if you do think binding everything to spacebar actually works vaguely well, you haven't actually tried binding everything to spacebar.
There's fun to be had from failure, too... and it's a good learning tool... and any team activity (such as ISA) will always feature 'stronger' and 'weaker' DPS members. Shock horror.
If all team members are actively-involved and trying their best, either to win or to learn, then I personally don't care if the run results in failure. In other words, I expect failure from PUG ISAs so success makes me warm inside.
The only thing that gets my goat is the AFK player, whether sat lurking in a 30k dps-boat or not... as they are simply not contributing or trying.
As for an in-game DPS meter... I've played tons of MMOs over tons of years and though they can help fine-tune and assist aspiration, they can also lead to elitism and an erosion of inclusion... so I'd not like to see one in-built.
I use this DPS meter to test builds out and mark my own progress... but FWIW, don't judge others based on their DPS output, low or high.
And that's why STO PvE is a joke. There's a reason why I'm mainly into PvP...
See my post above
APB to a 100k+ DPS ship is worth, ooo, about 30k DPS by itself, and current DPS and time record is set on APB1, not APB3. It is not as much as everyone thinks it is.
In fact, a typical decent but not brilliant player's 10-20k DPS will only gain 2-4k from full APB stacking.
Agreed. It could be brilliant, but instead we just have turkey shoots...
And if you can do 60k by spacebar spam you could do a lot more and be vastly more useful while doing it if you bothered to fly properly.
I disbelieve!
I certainly can't. :P:o:(
:rolleyes:
Absolutely correct (if you define a Tacs usefulness through dps). But why would I bother in this nonsense PvE Content we are having now?
To me PvE content is boring and I do it because I need to. Therefore I do it the most simple way and hammer my spacebar. Maybe this makes you feel better: I'm using up to 40 different keybinds on my PvP Builds
Well, that is how it works out, the top DPS guys can just about double base DPS from stacked teamwide buffs and debuffs - If you want to do better they will welcome the competition. I don't bother as I simply cannot afford to compete, but if you can...
Because you can do your PvE grind even quicker? Why do you think we collectively bother to try this DPS racing lark, it isn't for the records you know, nor lording it over other players.
In a game where damage is the only significant metric, you kinda have to define usefulness in terms of damage. That is a separate issue to the broken system in the first place.
What game doesn't though? You're doing damage, taking damage, healing damage, avoiding damage...what game doesn't do that?
See second sentence - it is a broken system to begin with.
Star Trek Online - the name would imply an MMO set in the Star Trek universe. What we have is a not particularly good space game that is just skinned as Star Trek.
Let's go back to my earlier point about the Horizon vs an Avenger. In STO, only one is desirable. To the Federation's position, it is the wrong one - to the actual IP, the hospital ship would be more valuable than the warship.
In STO, the Avenger is downright common, the Horizon? I have never seen someone use either T5 variant. Never.
Yet, we can all think of situations where a Galaxy-class would be valuable for it's capability to be an excellent cruiser, or an Intrepid for long range exploration (they made a series out of that FFS) - but in STO, all that matters is the defiant for it's firepower.
And that is where STO has gone wrong.
And no that's not a compliment..
Not a compliment in the slightest.
You say this, but your group never publishs a walk through guide on how to do a 100k DPS run , instead post videos of record runs isn't that lording.
True champions lead by example with a helping hand.