Suggestion: in-game threat and DPS meters

priestofsin420

Just as the topic says. I was running Infected The Conduit Advanced yesterday on my fancy new science Fed. Long story short, I run a particle generators build with a tanking emphasis, and netted a not so good 20k dps while still maintaining aggro for the majority of the mission. We failed, and one of my teammates said "we would've won if not for that stupid TBR user! (Me)"

Obviously it was me who is to blame, not the three sub 6k teammates I had. Clearly.

Hence, I wish everyone had DPS and threat meters in the game. Then perhaps those of us who still pug would have the tools to point out who is dead weight, and those of us who are dead weight can keep their mouths shut and improve?

stohenrik

Maybe because not everyone without 20k+ DPS is dead weight?

My science character usually don't go much above 5k on a good day, but I can crowd control enough to easily hold off the nanite spheres while a bunch of other 5k'ers whittle the generator down.

Perhaps they blamed you because they assumed (without making you aware of it) that you would keep the nanite spheres away as you were science?

Sometimes (albeit rarely) a PUG will actually see beyond DPS and expect people to do specific things their characters should be best suited for. It's rare, and they usually never say if it's the case though.....

seriousdave

This would certainly help because the game itself does absolutely nothing to explain anything. Most of the time it's meaningless flavor text that sometimes even contradicts tooltips, which are also sometimes wrong.

Without stuff like the combat log reader, the wiki created and maintained by the community, the build planner from STO academy, etc... this game woul be abysmal.

nesomumi2

stohenrik wrote: »

Maybe because not everyone without 20k+ DPS is dead weight?

My science character usually don't go much above 5k on a good day, but I can crowd control enough to easily hold off the nanite spheres while a bunch of other 5k'ers whittle the generator down.

Perhaps they blamed you because they assumed (without making you aware of it) that you would keep the nanite spheres away as you were science?

Sometimes (albeit rarely) a PUG will actually see beyond DPS and expect people to do specific things their characters should be best suited for. It's rare, and they usually never say if it's the case though.....

sry man, but 5k in advanced stf is just laizy, and no, you are not helping. but sure, the guy whit 20k dps have a chance to kill all for you, as you are not makeing a dent in there shield. i personally drive scimitar and was recently in similar situation like OP, but lucky our team, my build have gravity well, so i managed to do most of the work, there was one guy doing 9k, the rest were doing 2k, in ISA.
i don't know how people think that is is ok to get in advanced whit such a poor build, and then you have threads how ques are empty, well da, i like to pub as a have a good enough build to carry the battle to the end, but it is becoming increasingly annoying and i'm thinking to switch to 10k channel as this is just... well to put it simple i don't see a reason to carry the whole team and then get the same reword as them.

you canot expect for good players to stay in pubs if you are just sticking the finger to them, you know "i play as i like", you know, me to .

zero2362

Dont really care about a threat gen meter but an in game dps meter would be steller

nesomumi2

stohenrik wrote: »

Maybe because not everyone without 20k+ DPS is dead weight?

My science character usually don't go much above 5k on a good day, but I can crowd control enough to easily hold off the nanite spheres while a bunch of other 5k'ers whittle the generator down.

Perhaps they blamed you because they assumed (without making you aware of it) that you would keep the nanite spheres away as you were science?

Sometimes (albeit rarely) a PUG will actually see beyond DPS and expect people to do specific things their characters should be best suited for. It's rare, and they usually never say if it's the case though.....

i do 17k in ISA whit sci. toon on a Obelisk carrier whit 9 consoles, so 5k is not much, but i do belive you know what you are doing, you just don't do enough.

warpangel

+1 for a DPS meter.

Most of those poor newbies could do much better, if only they knew how badly they were doing. If the game just gave better feedback on your performance, without needing 3rd party tools.

Combine this with a decent ship-building tutorial and maybe we'd even get the ones who can't otherwise do better up to spec.

Of course we'd still be left with the ones who refuse do better even with advice, because it's the game's fault they can't win everything with whatever junk they feel like equipping, but those are a lost cause.

dkratasco

stohenrik wrote: »

Maybe because not everyone without 20k+ DPS is dead weight?

My science character usually don't go much above 5k on a good day, but I can crowd control enough to easily hold off the nanite spheres while a bunch of other 5k'ers whittle the generator down.

Perhaps they blamed you because they assumed (without making you aware of it) that you would keep the nanite spheres away as you were science?

Sometimes (albeit rarely) a PUG will actually see beyond DPS and expect people to do specific things their characters should be best suited for. It's rare, and they usually never say if it's the case though.....

To be honest it's not DPS that mater, what really matter is if you are contributing anything useful for the rest of team and mission. DPS is just the easiest part to see.

nesomumi2 wrote: »

sry man, but 5k in advanced stf is just laizy, and no, you are not helping. but sure, the guy whit 20k dps have a chance to kill all for you, as you are not makeing a dent in there shield. i personally drive scimitar and was recently in similar situation like OP, but lucky our team, my build have gravity well, so i managed to do most of the work, there was one guy doing 9k, the rest were doing 2k, in ISA.
i don't know how people think that is is ok to get in advanced whit such a poor build, and then you have threads how ques are empty, well da, i like to pub as a have a good enough build to carry the battle to the end, but it is becoming increasingly annoying and i'm thinking to switch to 10k channel as this is just... well to put it simple i don't see a reason to carry the whole team and then get the same reword as them.

you canot expect for good players to stay in pubs if you are just sticking the finger to them, you know "i play as i like", you know, me to .
[...]
i do 17k in ISA whit sci. toon on a Obelisk carrier whit 9 consoles, so 5k is not much, but i do belive you know what you are doing, you just don't do enough.

I don't agree, to complete ADV queues you only need team with average 10k (if tactic base only on pure force), so even 5k player who do CC/tank/heal/any-other-role-which-contribute-sth helps. Of course he/she can do better, but still he/she isn't leach.

In game meter would be nice, but it should also show heal both self and out.

g8472hg

I'm suggesting an online configuration advisor into the game. My mother language is not
english, so for (I think) most of us (forigners), it is difficult to oversee the whole game mechanism.

Several skills, equipments, parameters, etc. is the end result of dps. Many times I feel lost in the so much data, it is too complicated right now.

So, most of the time I have only the "experiencing way" to understand what changed in the game time to time.

jellico1

A Dps meter would be very very very BAD for cryptic profits and sales of there Noob money maker the Feds

When the rank and file see how low there dps is and how high the romulans is in the team with them most will quit when they find out that bridge officers...SROs is why there romulan team mate cranks out

So much more Dps

A lot of players think they can compete without fleet gear..without lock box ships and without expensive lobi items

A expert player with knowledge can and who understands the mechanics of the game...However that person is not the majority.... not the rank and file

A Dps meter would kill the game worse than DR has in my opinion

nesomumi2

dkratasco wrote: »

To be honest it's not DPS that mater, what really matter is if you are contributing anything useful for the rest of team and mission. DPS is just the easiest part to see.


I don't agree, to complete ADV queues you only need team with average 10k (if tactic base only on pure force), so even 5k player who do CC/tank/heal/any-other-role-which-contribute-sth helps. Of course he/she can do better, but still he/she isn't leach.

while i dont disagree whit you, team of 5 people doing 5k, will not finish ISA.
while i used a little harsh words, i dont think that people doing 5k dont know what they are doing, but they contribute very little to the battle, and in the end they do get carried away by a higher dps player.

nesomumi2

jellico1 wrote: »

A Dps meter would be very very very BAD for cryptic profits and sales of there Noob money maker the Feds

When the rank and file see how low there dps is and how high the romulans is in the team with them most will quit when they find out that bridge officers...SROs is why there romulan team mate cranks out

So much more Dps

A lot of players think they can compete without fleet gear..without lock box ships and without expensive lobi items

A expert player with knowledge can and who understands the mechanics of the game...However that person is not the majority.... not the rank and file

A Dps meter would kill the game worse than DR has in my opinion

any T5 ship can do advance even now, whit mk xi gear, but problem is that when you play it like this, there is not much place for diversity, but in the end, this is a problem for PW/Cryptic.
Players shoud have enough common sens to not go in places that are not made for there build (of cores do whatever whit your friends), if people wont for pubs to be full, then there's have to be a common sense about it. if not, ques are going to be empty.

aelfwin1

nesomumi2 wrote: »

you canot expect for good players to stay in pubs if you are just sticking the finger to them, you know "i play as i like", you know, me to .

This may be an old fashioned notion, but maybe we were intended to play together the weak and the strong , instead of the strong playing with the strong and the weak being cast off -- as the DPS channels setup currently encourages players to play .

From my POV, the current DPS race is little more then a justification to cast off players ... , and the number of times I joined teams through PESTF that turned out to be from the DPS channels, well I've come to figure that this segregation bit for DPS isn't working as intended for the DPS channels due to their own issues .

nesomumi2

aelfwin1 wrote: »

This may be an old fashioned notion, but maybe we were intended to play together the weak and the strong , instead of the strong playing with the strong and the weak being cast off -- as the DPS channels setup currently encourages players to play .

From my POV, the current DPS race is little more then a justification to cast off players ... , and the number of times I joined teams through PESTF that turned out to be from the DPS channels, well I've come to figure that this segregation bit for DPS isn't working as intended for the DPS channels due to their own issues .

you see if there were no timer, i would agree whit you. but there is, 15 min or you fail. so dps is important.

stohenrik

nesomumi2 wrote: »

i do 17k in ISA whit sci. toon on a Obelisk carrier whit 9 consoles, so 5k is not much, but i do belive you know what you are doing, you just don't do enough.

It's a matter of what I do - in ISA, I usually focus explicitly on the nanite spheres, and keep those back. That means I only get a limited amount of damage out, because I focus much more on timing and ensuring that I get all the nanites held back.

If I'm left along in e.g. Cure Found Advanced with a "side" of my own, I can usually get up to 10-15k once I've got a bunch together. But it's my secondary toon, and I'm still building it up with specific gear. I'm still going to go further towards better CC, instead of maximizing DPS though, because it seems more fun.

Along the same line, I'm among the idiots who insist on phaser and photons/quantums on a Federation ship because, well I'm a Federation captain and that's the right things to use.
When I get to where I want a DPS focus, I'll start playing my tactical more, but I'll with 99.9 % probability still be too stubborn to use anything but Federation ships, phasers and photon/quantum.

EDIT: And I need to play advanced queues, because one of the things I'm working on are a new set of Omega thingies....

priestofsin420

To those saying DPS doesn't matter: In a normal queue, do what you want. I don't care if you're running some skittleboat with single cannons, we basically cannot fail in Normal. In advanced? You need to be doing at least 8k. I don't particularly care if you're trying to be a healbot, a CC, or anything else, you need to do 8k, otherwise you are dead weight.

What's more useful? A guy who can keep some spheres locked away in a corner, or a guy who can just blow them up and come help me with whatever other objective I've got to do?

And don't get me started on Elite queues. I'd probably say 15k+ is the required there.

aelfwin1

nesomumi2 wrote: »

you see if there were no timer, i would agree whit you. but there is, 15 min or you fail. so dps is important.

I understand that POV, but mine are different for the following reasons :

- The 1 hour cool down between STF'S does not exist for me due to my multiple toons .
Also due to my multiple toons I do not need to get upset with a failed STF .

- And speaking of the timer , I strongly suspect it is temporary due to the Catch 22 that Cryptic built for themselfs :
They want players to get Mats to craft so that they can play the Advanced content, but they can't play the advanced content due to the Timer/Fail conditions .

Thus we're in a standoff and the empty queues tell us that the blanks Cryptic is firing (Elachi ship in crafting mat moxes , 30% increase to the Mk 14 weapons) -- those are again being heard by the haves rather then the have not's .

Thus we're in an old fashioned TNG poker standoff and sooner or later someone will blink .


... until then we get snow balls nerfed ...

Unknown

This content has been removed.

paxdawn

2k is very small dps in ISA Space. That is almost the DPS of the top ground DPS.

15k should be the standard in ISA.

But, what is happening has forced the grouping of people who those know and people who do not know. So, if you werent in DPS channel before DR, you are now will be forced to go there to get decent groupings.

Besides its the OPs fault he went to a PuG. If he is parsing 20k DPs, he should have sticked in 20k dps channel groups.

I am for what is happening. Forces advanced missions to have decent groups.

alex284

Not really the topic, but TBR is really annoying. Most of the time there's no point besides a tiny bit of exotic damage, and it makes everyone else move to keep the target in their firing arc so the tiny bit of exotic damage is more than cancelled out by everyone with dhcs losing several seconds of attack. They're even worse when I'm running my drain-boat that kinda depends on TR, which has only 1 counter and that's moving away from the TR except usually the npc has no engine power and can't do that, but then every now and then someone in a pug comes up and TBRs the npc out of the TR and it's like, "I'm sure the enemy thanks you!"

Sometimes TBR is useful (NWS, some parts of korfez, pvp, ISA but really only if they know what they're doing...). But most of the time when I see it it's just plain annoying.

nicha0

jellico1 wrote: »

A Dps meter would be very very very BAD for cryptic profits and sales of there Noob money maker the Feds

When the rank and file see how low there dps is and how high the romulans is in the team with them most will quit when they find out that bridge officers...SROs is why there romulan team mate cranks out

So much more Dps

A lot of players think they can compete without fleet gear..without lock box ships and without expensive lobi items

A expert player with knowledge can and who understands the mechanics of the game...However that person is not the majority.... not the rank and file

A Dps meter would kill the game worse than DR has in my opinion

This is very true. A DPS meter is a needle to the massively oversized bubble of ignorance the average player lives in, in STO.

sheldonlcooper

alex284 wrote: »

Not really the topic, but TBR is really annoying. Most of the time there's no point besides a tiny bit of exotic damage, and it makes everyone else move to keep the target in their firing arc so the tiny bit of exotic damage is more than cancelled out by everyone with dhcs losing several seconds of attack. They're even worse when I'm running my drain-boat that kinda depends on TR, which has only 1 counter and that's moving away from the TR except usually the npc has no engine power and can't do that, but then every now and then someone in a pug comes up and TBRs the npc out of the TR and it's like, "I'm sure the enemy thanks you!"

Sometimes TBR is useful (NWS, some parts of korfez, pvp, ISA but really only if they know what they're doing...). But most of the time when I see it it's just plain annoying.

It's good for the big targets in ISA. Very bad for the spheres. GW is king for ISA. I did one yesterday where 2 players quit. 2 of us remaining used gravity wells to keep the army of spheres contained each time and we finished with about 6 minutes on the clock. A 4th player joined about halfway through. Chasing down spheres makes the mission miserable but keeping them contained returns it to pre DR fun.

Also I'm putting together the new Breen carrier and am parsing ISA. I had a group yesterday with a 15 (me), two 10's, and two 5's. We finsihed with about 4 minutes left. So I don't see any reason for ISA complaint. I have seen a number of groups with 3 players below 2000. These will usually fail but eh, so what. ISA and CCA are fine. Fix some of the others. Or don't. I'm no longer waiting or hopeful for changes to the timer failqueues.

thomasp94232

This is a good idea IMO. Something easy to read for new and casual players that might not know how to build a ship "properly". Even the ship details are not very helpful since they change depending on if you are on the ground or in space. I (and I guess most others) build their ships on the ground, so it sucks that you can't just see the proper specs of your ship till you beam out. Things just need to be made a bit simpler. I couldn't even imagine being a new STO player at this point, it is just too daunting.

tekehd

priestofsin420 wrote: »

To those saying DPS doesn't matter: In a normal queue, do what you want. I don't care if you're running some skittleboat with single cannons, we basically cannot fail in Normal. In advanced? You need to be doing at least 8k. I don't particularly care if you're trying to be a healbot, a CC, or anything else, you need to do 8k, otherwise you are dead weight.

What's more useful? A guy who can keep some spheres locked away in a corner, or a guy who can just blow them up and come help me with whatever other objective I've got to do?

And don't get me started on Elite queues. I'd probably say 15k+ is the required there.

For me.... I'll take someone with low DPS and good tactics over someone with high DPS and bad tactics anyday. Was in an ISA this morning with a high DPS tac in an escort which could vape things.... which would have been great, had he not immediately plowed through two gens, and then started meaninglessly attacking spheres which spawned... and all before the cube was even down.

mosul33

This is one of the most stupid and bad ideas ever. OP, you should feel sry and bad about it. The whole DPS gameplay got this game in this horrible state where is it now. And it promotes selfish builds and gameplay, where any teamplay or team awarness is ignored. Like for example God forbids to slot an Extend Shield skill, cuz then you are noob becouse it hurts your DPS:rolleyes:
And mesuring DPS is innacurate, since it depends on a multitude of factors.
Terrible bad idea, very very bad.

tekehd

mosul33 wrote: »

This is one of the most stupid and bad ideas ever. OP, you should feel sry and bad about it. The whole DPS gameplay got this game in this horrible state where is it now. And it promotes selfish builds and gameplay, where any teamplay or team awarness is ignored. Like for example God forbids to slot an Extend Shield skill, cuz then you are noob becouse it hurts your DPS:rolleyes:
And mesuring DPS is innacurate, since it depends on a multitude of factors.
Terrible bad idea, very very bad.

I don't know, the threat meter sounds like a good idea.... it might tell me why Tac cubes like to follow my Fed-Sci around like a lost puppy while being hammered by 4 Scimitars.

questerius

zero2362 wrote: »

Dont really care about a threat gen meter but an in game dps meter would be steller

As i understand they have it ingame already for PVP. CE and Afk detection.

+1 for adding this.

stohenrik

alex284 wrote: »

Not really the topic, but TBR is really annoying. Most of the time there's no point besides a tiny bit of exotic damage

It's also quite useful, if used correctly.

I use it in between GWs, allowing me to move the clump I create further away from where I don't want them. They get split slightly a part, but the GW 5-10 seconds later clumps them back together.

I'll admit though, it's the only use I've found for it so far - and I've seen it used many times absolutely horribly instead.

battykoda0

nesomumi2 wrote: »

sry man, but 5k in advanced stf is just laizy, and no, you are not helping. but sure, the guy whit 20k dps have a chance to kill all for you, as you are not makeing a dent in there shield. i personally drive scimitar and was recently in similar situation like OP, but lucky our team, my build have gravity well, so i managed to do most of the work, there was one guy doing 9k, the rest were doing 2k, in ISA.
i don't know how people think that is is ok to get in advanced whit such a poor build, and then you have threads how ques are empty, well da, i like to pub as a have a good enough build to carry the battle to the end, but it is becoming increasingly annoying and i'm thinking to switch to 10k channel as this is just... well to put it simple i don't see a reason to carry the whole team and then get the same reword as them.

you canot expect for good players to stay in pubs if you are just sticking the finger to them, you know "i play as i like", you know, me to .

Teamwork. Science debuffs and bunches them up and you hotdogs kills them. I guess you would complain if the healer wasn't healing and also doing 20k+ dps too, eh? Stopping nanite spheres to avoid them healing the generator is a must, not being lazy - particularly when the hotdogs of the bunch tend to just FAW them to popping without a care in the world. Maybe some of you guys should just solo it. I mean, easier to do it without all that dead weight on your backs, right?

Have fun in the 10k channel.

shadowwraith77

stohenrik wrote: »

It's also quite useful, if used correctly.

I use it in between GWs, allowing me to move the clump I create further away from where I don't want them. They get split slightly a part, but the GW 5-10 seconds later clumps them back together.

I'll admit though, it's the only use I've found for it so far - and I've seen it used many times absolutely horribly instead.

If your graviton gens is high enough, than you need never use TBR's to get them where they need to go!

Yes, the skill of TBR's is useful if used correctly but, way to often I seen people hurt the team with it, than actually helping the team!

battykoda0

priestofsin420 wrote: »

To those saying DPS doesn't matter: In a normal queue, do what you want. I don't care if you're running some skittleboat with single cannons, we basically cannot fail in Normal. In advanced? You need to be doing at least 8k. I don't particularly care if you're trying to be a healbot, a CC, or anything else, you need to do 8k, otherwise you are dead weight.

What's more useful? A guy who can keep some spheres locked away in a corner, or a guy who can just blow them up and come help me with whatever other objective I've got to do?

And don't get me started on Elite queues. I'd probably say 15k+ is the required there.

I will make a note to remove my CC powers and my GravGens and PartGens in favor of (what can I put in those science seats to power my weapons??) and tac consoles for my 6 little non-cannon weapons and two whole tac powers. I'm sure my dps will jump to over 100k with an ensign and lt tac seat running all out.