I think I will agree to disagree on this one - Trek conventions are more crowded and Trek merchandise is more common now than they were in the 90s - I have been to enough conventions to know that first hand. And it's not all old fogeys like me, and possibly you. I still see enough kids, teens, and twenty-somethings at those cons to indicate to me that there will be a solid market for a long time yet.
I'm sure your point of view is valid to some extent as well - I just believe that they wouldn't let the license lie around for that long. Especially not if some of the player metrics that Cryptic has put out over the years are even close to correct.
CBS Studios takes an extremely low-risk, high-reward stance in terms of licensing the Star Trek IP. MMOs are brutal in terms of development time and investment. MMOs are constantly in development, so they aren't just investing in a 'set it and forget it', 'one and done', 'pump and dump' game. They're investing in continuous development for years to come.
The MMO market is currently over-saturated, and completely cutthroat in terms of gaining player numbers.
If you want to see the kind of 'high risk' gambles CBS Studios takes with the IP? Look at our 'sister' games, like Star Trek: Alien Domain. This isn't the Activision of the 90's we're seeing here.
If you want to see how they want to make money with the least amount of work possible? Look at all the Star Trek novels.
An MMO is not something people create on a whim, and certainly not in the shadow of the success/failure of Star Trek Online.
CBS Studios takes an extremely low-risk, high-reward stance in terms of licensing the Star Trek IP. MMOs are brutal in terms of development time and investment. MMOs are constantly in development, so they aren't just investing in a 'set it and forget it', 'one and done', 'pump and dump' game. They're investing in continuous development for years to come.
The MMO market is currently over-saturated, and completely cutthroat in terms of gaining player numbers.
If you want to see the kind of 'high risk' gambles CBS Studios takes with the IP? Look at our 'sister' games, like Star Trek: Alien Domain. This isn't the Activision of the 90's we're seeing here.
If you want to see how they want to make money with the least amount of work possible? Look at all the Star Trek novels.
An MMO is not something people create on a whim, and certainly not in the shadow of the success/failure of Star Trek Online.
As people keep bringing up when comparing STO to other titles, one thing a Trek MMO will always have that gives it an edge in a cutthroat MMO market is the very fact that it is Star Trek.
It will, for a long time yet, have a built-in player base.
Do you really think that this game would have survived long enough to get absorbed by PWE if it were a generic space MMO? Not a chance. It wouldn't have survived even after that point had it not been Trek.
The strength of the license is what will determine to a large extent the next Trek MMO, not the solely the saturation of the MMO market.
Again though, you could be completely correct, and the built in market wouldn't be enough to risk a new investment on. I don't agree, but I concede that your point is valid.
My guess is "hope" keeps people not playing but posting on the forums. For others, its a path of sad realization and closure. Grieving takes time. The worst "haters" here love the game, or did at some point.
So there's a new game coming out that is more of a modern version of Wing Commander Privateer without the Kilrathi. So what? There's always going to be a new game. Heck... there WAS going to be a Stargate mmo, but even with all the anticipation and hype, the company went under and took the game with it. Which sucks. I wanted to check that one out.
ED is not going to be a STO killer, just as all of the so called "WoW killers" failed to dethrone WoW. The only real threat to STO is if another Star Trek MMO, a real one not a web browser Facebook game, comes out.
Exactly... For me personally, I'll step away from STO when GTA V hits PC in the next couple of months and that has nothing to do with Space fantasy or MMO's... I'll run and gun it for a month or two and be right back here. I also swing back and forth every few weeks between this game and BF3 and then BF4 when it came out, once again, not an MMO or related to anything space.
It's Trek that keeps me here, I suggest players looking for another MMO to play to just move along as this is not the game you're looking for. If it wasn't for the IP, I would tend to agree with the argument that this game would have died a long time ago when Atari was milking it for what it had left. But now, this game is like a pet cockroach. I think you'll have to nuke it from orbit to put this game down....
join Date: Sep 2009 - I want my changeling lava lamp!
Do you really think that this game would have survived long enough to get absorbed by PWE if it were a generic space MMO? Not a chance. It wouldn't have survived even after that point had it not been Trek.
It's a what if scenario I see brought to the table time and time again. It is possible it would not have survived. But it is also possible it would have. There are too many variables in the equation to tell definitively one way or the other.
In the end, I see STO for what it currently is, I do not dwell on what could have been for very long, because I prefer looking at the present and the future.
In the end, I see STO for what it currently is, I do not dwell on what could have been for very long, because I prefer looking at the present and the future.
My guess is "hope" keeps people not playing but posting on the forums. For others, its a path of sad realization and closure. Grieving takes time. The worst "haters" here love the game, or did at some point.
Elite Dangerous for the win. Just the game I'm looking for. As stated the only thing STO have right now is the Star Trek name. Thankfully I'm a Babylon 5 fan and don't really give a frak...
STO just keep getting worse and worse, and WORSE :mad:. My faith in Cryptic turning STO around is near non existent. Just being honest... I may not uninstall, but I may not have time for STO once I get ED (or SC). Not sure.
So ED will be the game I'm going to next... Looks and plays a little like Microsoft's FreeLancer. Another game I truly love. ED = Exploration, millions of systems, Something new. I support ED and Star Citizen at this time...
The dress is gold and white. Over 70% people says so. When viewed from a certain screen angle it appears blue and black. The dress displayed on amazon is a blue and black dress, but it's not the same dress in the picture. If you're seeing blue & black you're slightly colored blind. A normal upright screen = white and gold.
I would say the biggest question I would ask in that what if scenario that calls the entire thing into question is this:
"Would they have still done X, Y, and Z the way they did if it were not tied to a definitively Star Trek game?"
Their decision making starts somewhere, but we look at the end result and judge based on that.
The major selling point that they had originally was that Cryptic claimed to have an MMO engine that you could plug any IP or assets into and have a playable demo in 6 weeks. Which they actually delivered on early in the production process.
So, yes, if they had not done the Trek IP, there is no guarantee that it would have been a space MMO, and who knows how it would have fared.
But looking back, that inherently means that it really wasn't a ground-up Trek game anyway...
My guess is "hope" keeps people not playing but posting on the forums. For others, its a path of sad realization and closure. Grieving takes time. The worst "haters" here love the game, or did at some point.
Star Citizen is definitely going to be awesome. ED would be good fix until Star Citizen comes out.
STO won't ever truly die, because there are a lot of people that still want to live in the Star Trek universe. I know of several people, myself included, that pretty much only log in for the parties thrown by the multiple radio stations. As long as there continues to be a thriving social scene, people will still keep logging in, buy the new outfits, etc.
I tried playing the new expansion and got bored, fast. I'm leveling, slowly, through the doff missions. The new content just holds no interest for me.
Every time there is a new game that comes out, it's always labeled " the killer" by whichever MMO that person is discontent with. I know I saw a similar thread to this on the WoW forums when STO was coming out.
Will people leave to go play ED? Sure they will. It's the newest shiny. Some will even stay over there. However, there will always be those that try it and come back to STO. Their friends play here, they've put too much time and/or money into the game, etc. There's always some excuse they use to justify coming back.
Big "name" MMOs are flawed from the off, they are flawed in that the name they carry will always be an achilles heel. Players will flock to it because of the name, rather than the game itself. It's a 2 edged sword as it means that not only do you get players who would enjoy the MMO in question, but also those who really wont enjoy it at all and are just attracted by the name. I learned from this mistake myself, pre-purchasing Guild Wars 2 based on the hype and my love of the original Guild Wars, only to find a game completely different and not really my cup of tea at all.
STO has the same problem. Some say that STO's only strength is the Star Trek name, I argue that it is it's biggest weakness. It draws in people who come for the name. Some stay for the game, but unfortunately some just don't like the game and demand it be changed to suit them. Others actually enjoy the game, which annoys a small minority of those who dislike it and want it changed to the point that they feel the need to troll us and call us names such as "white knights", "Cryptic defence force" etc etc. Where the truth is, we just like the game that is STO.
I grew up watching Star Trek, along with many other fantastic fantasy and sci fi franchises. I never became a "trekkie" however. I didn't come to STO for the name, I came to it having watched game play vids etc and decided to just give it a try, it been free to play and all. I found that I really enjoy the game, so I went lTS and stuck around.
Cryptic have done many things that I don't like that much, however I still enjoy the game, so I continue to play. I play other MMOs too, what they all have in common though is that they are sci fi mmos as I discovered that I really don't enjoy the fantasy genre. I also discovered that I don't enjoy space trading etc etc games, having tried (and spent a fortune) on EVE.
How will Crypic keep players from quitting STO to play Elite Dangerous? The simple answer to that is that they won't try to turn STO into Elite Dangerous, as if they do they will lose the players who really wouldn't enjoy/don't enjoy games of that type and actually enjoy games like STO. One man's/woman's meat and all that.
To those who no longer enjoy STO, and plan to leave, I wish you well. To those who, like me, actually enjoy STO, see you in game.
its a twitch...........joystick.............fighter game
and as such has very little interest from me
Jellico....Engineer ground.....Da'val Romulan space Sci
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
now those who are stating this and that about that game are there and won't be back for a while at least until it gets boring then they will return with stories about how the devs on that game are doing this and that, good or bad makes no difference. for now at least sto can get back to some form of normality with people no longer doing another game and companies free advertising on other game forum, a direct competitor..
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
now those who are stating this and that about that game are there and won't be back for a while at least until it gets boring then they will return with stories about how the devs on that game are doing this and that, good or bad makes no difference. for now at least sto can get back to some form of normality with people no longer doing another game and companies free advertising on other game forum, a direct competitor..
Yeah right. They will be back here shortly to spend hours upon hours telling us how great the game is instead of playing it.
Well excuse me for having enormous flaws that I don't work on.
now those who are stating this and that about that game are there and won't be back for a while at least until it gets boring then they will return with stories about how the devs on that game are doing this and that, good or bad makes no difference. for now at least sto can get back to some form of normality with people no longer doing another game and companies free advertising on other game forum, a direct competitor..
Elite: Dangerous. Didn't know it existed until this thread told me. While the idea of a life-sized galaxy is appealing, the design of the ships in the trailer on their website didn't blow me away. It's hard to design a good looking spaceship for science fiction. And in a space combat game, you GOTTA like the look of what you're flying.
The price tag is also probably not going to leave STO much to worry about. I'm no expert in currency conversion, but I'm pretty sure 40GBP is more than $50 US.
Also, the specs on the game is definitely going to keep me away. I'm still rocking the good ol' Dual-Core, and I'm on a laptop, so this game wouldn't run its first frame for me one way or another.
So I guess all anyone has to do is keep the game Free-mium, and maybe host a sale around Boxing Day.
now those who are stating this and that about that game are there and won't be back for a while at least until it gets boring then they will return with stories about how the devs on that game are doing this and that, good or bad makes no difference. for now at least sto can get back to some form of normality with people no longer doing another game and companies free advertising on other game forum, a direct competitor..
They are not direct competitors at all. They are as similar as Company Of Heroes and Battlefield 1942. The only thing they have in common is spaceships in the future.
ED's competition is Star Citizen but that still has a year to go.
Elite: Dangerous. Didn't know it existed until this thread told me. While the idea of a life-sized galaxy is appealing, the design of the ships in the trailer on their website didn't blow me away. It's hard to design a good looking spaceship for science fiction. And in a space combat game, you GOTTA like the look of what you're flying.
Not in ED. It's all first person so you don't see your ship unless you're outfitting it.
The ships are pretty much modeled on the ships from previous games. To players of those old games that's great.
Game is fun. It's unforgiving and you can get destroyed even trying to leave your first station if you're not used to space flight sims, but if you have any sort of competency it's fun.
And like I said the other day this is the icing on the cake:
what exactly is Elite Dangerous? This is the first time I have heard about it? Mind shooting us a link.
Well, younguns...
ELITE was a game for apple II E machines. Yep, the old 1 color green monitor PC from 1983 or so with 2 floppy drives and no hard disk. It was a space trading game with some combat.
ELITE plus was a dos game for the 386 era, very similar but it had 256 color mode and ran faster, smoother, and had more to do. It is fun, but heavily exploitable. With fuel scoops and 4 missiles you can pirate your entire cargo bay full off NPC traders (don't even fight back, just 1 missile as you fly over the top) and make millions in a few hours of play (that is a lot of money in the game... a LOT of money). If you do not exploit, it takes a couple of months to max out your ship and see a few galaxies before the boredom sets in. Mostly, its kind of a relaxing easy game, and mostly, its about making money ... and after a point, more money is pointless.
Elite dangerous is a rehash of some sort.
The original games produced *massive* universes of randomly generated starmaps. It was all created by algorithm, not stored. Kind of like the original ARENA/elder scrolls maps/game was dynamic/algorithm created. This allowed large games to exist without storing all the info for the massive universes.
Now with some background, go read up on the latest in the series. If it holds true to the theme, it will be exploration and trade based, with combat but not built AROUND combat as a main feature.
I may look into it, I still have elite plus installed lol, and it still runs on current windows machines (not sure if 64 bit killed it, I still have a 32 bit machine here at work, :eek:).
they were NOT usually in elite plus or the original. Not sure about dangerous.
If you preferred to not fight, you simply avoided the most violent planets, and apart from the occasional random hostile pirate, you did not need combat.
In the old ones, combat was stupid anyway. Mount an aft weapon, swap view to aft. NPC tries to dogfight you by getting behind you ..... you shoot, you win, derp.
They are not direct competitors at all. They are as similar as Company Of Heroes and Battlefield 1942. The only thing they have in common is spaceships in the future.
ED's competition is Star Citizen but that still has a year to go.
Not in ED. It's all first person so you don't see your ship unless you're outfitting it.
The ships are pretty much modeled on the ships from previous games. To players of those old games that's great.
Game is fun. It's unforgiving and you can get destroyed even trying to leave your first station if you're not used to space flight sims, but if you have any sort of competency it's fun.
And like I said the other day this is the icing on the cake:
As this thread is turning into something of a preview/review/advertisement for Elite Dangerous and therefore off-topic, I have moved it to Ten Forward.
My views may not represent those of Cryptic Studios or Perfect World Entertainment. You can file a "forums and website" support ticket here Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
As this thread is turning into something of a preview/review/advertisement for Elite Dangerous and therefore off-topic, I have moved it to Ten Forward.
As this thread is turning into something of a preview/review/advertisement for Elite Dangerous and therefore off-topic, I have moved it to Ten Forward.
Really, bluegeek? Really...?
The Perfect World mods squash trolls fast, but they seems to be ignored more often than not here. I am disappoint.
Comments
CBS Studios takes an extremely low-risk, high-reward stance in terms of licensing the Star Trek IP. MMOs are brutal in terms of development time and investment. MMOs are constantly in development, so they aren't just investing in a 'set it and forget it', 'one and done', 'pump and dump' game. They're investing in continuous development for years to come.
The MMO market is currently over-saturated, and completely cutthroat in terms of gaining player numbers.
If you want to see the kind of 'high risk' gambles CBS Studios takes with the IP? Look at our 'sister' games, like Star Trek: Alien Domain. This isn't the Activision of the 90's we're seeing here.
If you want to see how they want to make money with the least amount of work possible? Look at all the Star Trek novels.
An MMO is not something people create on a whim, and certainly not in the shadow of the success/failure of Star Trek Online.
As people keep bringing up when comparing STO to other titles, one thing a Trek MMO will always have that gives it an edge in a cutthroat MMO market is the very fact that it is Star Trek.
It will, for a long time yet, have a built-in player base.
Do you really think that this game would have survived long enough to get absorbed by PWE if it were a generic space MMO? Not a chance. It wouldn't have survived even after that point had it not been Trek.
The strength of the license is what will determine to a large extent the next Trek MMO, not the solely the saturation of the MMO market.
Again though, you could be completely correct, and the built in market wouldn't be enough to risk a new investment on. I don't agree, but I concede that your point is valid.
Exactly... For me personally, I'll step away from STO when GTA V hits PC in the next couple of months and that has nothing to do with Space fantasy or MMO's... I'll run and gun it for a month or two and be right back here. I also swing back and forth every few weeks between this game and BF3 and then BF4 when it came out, once again, not an MMO or related to anything space.
It's Trek that keeps me here, I suggest players looking for another MMO to play to just move along as this is not the game you're looking for. If it wasn't for the IP, I would tend to agree with the argument that this game would have died a long time ago when Atari was milking it for what it had left. But now, this game is like a pet cockroach. I think you'll have to nuke it from orbit to put this game down....
It's a what if scenario I see brought to the table time and time again. It is possible it would not have survived. But it is also possible it would have. There are too many variables in the equation to tell definitively one way or the other.
In the end, I see STO for what it currently is, I do not dwell on what could have been for very long, because I prefer looking at the present and the future.
You are a wiser person than I.
I would say the biggest question I would ask in that what if scenario that calls the entire thing into question is this:
"Would they have still done X, Y, and Z the way they did if it were not tied to a definitively Star Trek game?"
Their decision making starts somewhere, but we look at the end result and judge based on that.
STO just keep getting worse and worse, and WORSE :mad:. My faith in Cryptic turning STO around is near non existent. Just being honest... I may not uninstall, but I may not have time for STO once I get ED (or SC). Not sure.
So ED will be the game I'm going to next... Looks and plays a little like Microsoft's FreeLancer. Another game I truly love. ED = Exploration, millions of systems, Something new. I support ED and Star Citizen at this time...
Well, that's a step-up from EvE, at least, where you can insure your ship too, but lose all your mods/rigs, etc. Thx.
The major selling point that they had originally was that Cryptic claimed to have an MMO engine that you could plug any IP or assets into and have a playable demo in 6 weeks. Which they actually delivered on early in the production process.
So, yes, if they had not done the Trek IP, there is no guarantee that it would have been a space MMO, and who knows how it would have fared.
But looking back, that inherently means that it really wasn't a ground-up Trek game anyway...
Argh, yeah, what-ifs make my head hurt.
STO won't ever truly die, because there are a lot of people that still want to live in the Star Trek universe. I know of several people, myself included, that pretty much only log in for the parties thrown by the multiple radio stations. As long as there continues to be a thriving social scene, people will still keep logging in, buy the new outfits, etc.
I tried playing the new expansion and got bored, fast. I'm leveling, slowly, through the doff missions. The new content just holds no interest for me.
Every time there is a new game that comes out, it's always labeled " the killer" by whichever MMO that person is discontent with. I know I saw a similar thread to this on the WoW forums when STO was coming out.
Will people leave to go play ED? Sure they will. It's the newest shiny. Some will even stay over there. However, there will always be those that try it and come back to STO. Their friends play here, they've put too much time and/or money into the game, etc. There's always some excuse they use to justify coming back.
Big "name" MMOs are flawed from the off, they are flawed in that the name they carry will always be an achilles heel. Players will flock to it because of the name, rather than the game itself. It's a 2 edged sword as it means that not only do you get players who would enjoy the MMO in question, but also those who really wont enjoy it at all and are just attracted by the name. I learned from this mistake myself, pre-purchasing Guild Wars 2 based on the hype and my love of the original Guild Wars, only to find a game completely different and not really my cup of tea at all.
STO has the same problem. Some say that STO's only strength is the Star Trek name, I argue that it is it's biggest weakness. It draws in people who come for the name. Some stay for the game, but unfortunately some just don't like the game and demand it be changed to suit them. Others actually enjoy the game, which annoys a small minority of those who dislike it and want it changed to the point that they feel the need to troll us and call us names such as "white knights", "Cryptic defence force" etc etc. Where the truth is, we just like the game that is STO.
I grew up watching Star Trek, along with many other fantastic fantasy and sci fi franchises. I never became a "trekkie" however. I didn't come to STO for the name, I came to it having watched game play vids etc and decided to just give it a try, it been free to play and all. I found that I really enjoy the game, so I went lTS and stuck around.
Cryptic have done many things that I don't like that much, however I still enjoy the game, so I continue to play. I play other MMOs too, what they all have in common though is that they are sci fi mmos as I discovered that I really don't enjoy the fantasy genre. I also discovered that I don't enjoy space trading etc etc games, having tried (and spent a fortune) on EVE.
How will Crypic keep players from quitting STO to play Elite Dangerous? The simple answer to that is that they won't try to turn STO into Elite Dangerous, as if they do they will lose the players who really wouldn't enjoy/don't enjoy games of that type and actually enjoy games like STO. One man's/woman's meat and all that.
To those who no longer enjoy STO, and plan to leave, I wish you well. To those who, like me, actually enjoy STO, see you in game.
You guys should totally be aware that...Elite: Dangerous, totally better than STO, is now officially released.
*unleashes the hype*
RELISH IT!
and as such has very little interest from me
Saphire.. Science ground......Ko'el Romulan space Tac
Leva........Tactical ground.....Koj Romulan space Eng
JJ-Verse will never be Canon or considered Lore...It will always be JJ-Verse
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
So that's why the game is completely empty with no around!
This time, the doom sayers were right. Dang it.
Yeah right. They will be back here shortly to spend hours upon hours telling us how great the game is instead of playing it.
Yes back to direct bashing. :P lol
Just don't ask them it specifically......because then you'll be labeled a Cryptic fanboy.
They already labeled everybody that kinda play the game as a Cryptic fanboy.
Know the difference
It could save your life...
The price tag is also probably not going to leave STO much to worry about. I'm no expert in currency conversion, but I'm pretty sure 40GBP is more than $50 US.
Also, the specs on the game is definitely going to keep me away. I'm still rocking the good ol' Dual-Core, and I'm on a laptop, so this game wouldn't run its first frame for me one way or another.
So I guess all anyone has to do is keep the game Free-mium, and maybe host a sale around Boxing Day.
Captaincy, Excelsior-Class U.S.S. Bianca Beauchamp NCC-99947-F
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
They are not direct competitors at all. They are as similar as Company Of Heroes and Battlefield 1942. The only thing they have in common is spaceships in the future.
ED's competition is Star Citizen but that still has a year to go.
Not in ED. It's all first person so you don't see your ship unless you're outfitting it.
The ships are pretty much modeled on the ships from previous games. To players of those old games that's great.
Game is fun. It's unforgiving and you can get destroyed even trying to leave your first station if you're not used to space flight sims, but if you have any sort of competency it's fun.
And like I said the other day this is the icing on the cake:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlU8abkdJU0
Well, younguns...
ELITE was a game for apple II E machines. Yep, the old 1 color green monitor PC from 1983 or so with 2 floppy drives and no hard disk. It was a space trading game with some combat.
ELITE plus was a dos game for the 386 era, very similar but it had 256 color mode and ran faster, smoother, and had more to do. It is fun, but heavily exploitable. With fuel scoops and 4 missiles you can pirate your entire cargo bay full off NPC traders (don't even fight back, just 1 missile as you fly over the top) and make millions in a few hours of play (that is a lot of money in the game... a LOT of money). If you do not exploit, it takes a couple of months to max out your ship and see a few galaxies before the boredom sets in. Mostly, its kind of a relaxing easy game, and mostly, its about making money ... and after a point, more money is pointless.
Elite dangerous is a rehash of some sort.
The original games produced *massive* universes of randomly generated starmaps. It was all created by algorithm, not stored. Kind of like the original ARENA/elder scrolls maps/game was dynamic/algorithm created. This allowed large games to exist without storing all the info for the massive universes.
Now with some background, go read up on the latest in the series. If it holds true to the theme, it will be exploration and trade based, with combat but not built AROUND combat as a main feature.
I may look into it, I still have elite plus installed lol, and it still runs on current windows machines (not sure if 64 bit killed it, I still have a 32 bit machine here at work, :eek:).
they were NOT usually in elite plus or the original. Not sure about dangerous.
If you preferred to not fight, you simply avoided the most violent planets, and apart from the occasional random hostile pirate, you did not need combat.
In the old ones, combat was stupid anyway. Mount an aft weapon, swap view to aft. NPC tries to dogfight you by getting behind you ..... you shoot, you win, derp.
Oh sh*t, dude is that real? You can talk to your ship's computer and it will actually do what you tell it to do?
Okay, I need a new computer.
Captaincy, Excelsior-Class U.S.S. Bianca Beauchamp NCC-99947-F
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Link: How to PM - Twitter @STOMod_Bluegeek
The Perfect World mods squash trolls fast, but they seems to be ignored more often than not here. I am disappoint.
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