Why not try it out yourself instead of just quitting? Don't rely on these forums for any sort of objective feedback. Always test things yourself.
Yeah what he/she said.
I noticed no real change other then I was less frustrated which is a good thing.
Judge for yourself aside from what appears to be a few bug issues or something that is not quite right with the generators it really is not any different then before. It even seemed to me that the maps were progressing a bit faster, but this may have been because I was having more fun.
Okay I just ran one. It went very fast though I was in at the start.
I solo captured 4 points and killed one Vrex.
I got appx 6000 dilithium and 5 implants.
I could see if I captured the 5 points or more I could have gotten 7000. With a little better luck I could have killed 2 Vrex. This would have brought me up to 7500 or 8000 which is what I usually get.
Summary: seems reasonable to me.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Why not try it out yourself instead of just quitting? Don't rely on these forums for any sort of objective feedback. Always test things yourself.
-edit-
Split it with me?
I'm doing that right now. I'll see what happens when I cap 5 zones and tag 3 dinos. I do not settle for partial rewards. If I cap 5 zones and tag 3 dinos who all die I expect the full reward. Any less will be considered a nerf.
So once again a dev we have never heard of comes out to explain how something in the patch notes is not a nerf, only for it to go live and be a massive nerf. Getting to be a pattern.
So once again a dev we have never heard of comes out to explain how something in the patch notes is not a nerf, only for it to go live and be a massive nerf. Getting to be a pattern.
Yes, it IS a bit odd that they keep coming up with these Devs to deliver total lies and then we'll never hear from them again.
Who would have thought an established company would need to stoop to the use of Sockpuppets?
I'll see what happens when I cap 5 zones and tag 3 dinos. I do not settle for partial rewards. If I cap 5 zones and tag 3 dinos who all die I expect the full reward. Any less will be considered a nerf.
rofl - you are going to see a change. It won't be drastic (from my point of view), but you are setting yourself up to ***** about it later and quit anyway.
So once again a dev we have never heard of comes out to explain how something in the patch notes is not a nerf, only for it to go live and be a massive nerf. Getting to be a pattern.
I was able to tag all three dinos with my engineer. I have to try with a tac later and see if the lack of mines will affect it (I like to tag dinos with mines right under their feet).
The problem was I couldn't cap 5 zones. I only got 5 dilithium and no credit for some of them and that pissed me off. Seems if you try to help cap a zone already being capped you stand a good chance of not getting credit. I solo everything but this seems to force it and I wound up getting angry that people were already at a zone I just ran to to cap. That's completely opposite of how the zone should be played.
This change is no good but it's not quite the nerf I was afraid of, at least for my engineers because they can still tag dinos which is needed for full reward.. It's the zone capping that needs adjusting because I cannot settle for 4 zones capped and only a partial reward, when I know I've helped to cap more than 4 zones. It's 5 zones + 3 dinos or bust.
I'm wondering what my tacs will need to do to successfully tag dinos.
The problem was I couldn't cap 5 zones. I only got 5 dilithium and no credit for some of them and that pissed me off. Seems if you try to help cap a zone already being capped you stand a good chance of not getting credit. I solo everything but this seems to force it and I wound up getting angry that people were already at a zone I just ran to to cap. That's completely opposite of how the zone should be played.
I wonder if it's the same participation metric bug that isn't giving people credit for waves on Tides of Ice even if they're there, active and shooting things.
My tac failed to successfully tag the second dino but I purposely hit that one fewer times than the first dino, which did tag successfully. I'm not sure how much damage is needed for a tag but it's more than a few hits. Seems like engineer mines will tag no problem but tacs need a combo of a grenade and a few good hits. More experimentation is needed but it's not a big problem, just takes more than a single sniper hit now.
The problem was that I couldn't capture 5 zones, again. They really messed something up. It shouldn't require you to solo a zone or else activate whatever needs activating to capture one. I stay away from the zones where you have to kill wave after wave of voth because they take too long. I only do artillery and that cylinder one and I used to solo them when I could (for command credits or else it would take too long to collect 60) but never left them if others were already there. We'd just do it all together.
Why did they have to TRIBBLE this zone up? It was fine. I almost never saw an instance fail to kill all three dinos and it was easy to cap 5 zones and earn the full reward. Why did they have to break what was not broken?
I wonder if it's the same participation metric bug that isn't giving people credit for waves on Tides of Ice even if they're there, active and shooting things.
Hmm could be. I lost credit for four ToI for unknown reasons. They still didn't need to touch the bz though. It wasn't broken and now it is.
The problem was that I couldn't capture 5 zones, again. They really messed something up. It shouldn't require you to solo a zone or else activate whatever needs activating to capture one. I stay away from the zones where you have to kill wave after wave of voth because they take too long. I only do artillery and that cylinder one and I used to solo them when I could (for command credits or else it would take too long to collect 60) but never left them if others were already there. We'd just do it all together.
It's like mechanics wise, they don't want players to work together. Because I ran into an artillery zone that as not been at 30% completion and went from there and still I only got 5 dil out of it.
Now I know they are trying to stop people from running in, take a pot shot and not cap the point. But this is ridicoulus. I want to help people cap because the faster we cap the BZ, the faster V-rex appears. But why should you cap when you get no credit out of it?
The problem was that I couldn't capture 5 zones, again. They really messed something up. It shouldn't require you to solo a zone or else activate whatever needs activating to capture one. I stay away from the zones where you have to kill wave after wave of voth because they take too long. I only do artillery and that cylinder one and I used to solo them when I could (for command credits or else it would take too long to collect 60) but never left them if others were already there. We'd just do it all together.
Yeah, I decided to do some testing myself, and it was trivially easy to replicate. Went to a relay (the one in Outskirts east of the teleporter pad) that was already in progress by another player, joined as he was dropping the 1/3 mecha and stayed for the rest of the time, joined by a third player shortly afterwards. Destroyed things vigorously, and practically soloed the 2/3 mecha due to being an engineer. Only 5 dilithium. So, yeah, it's busted.
Hmm, maybe it was a lower population instance, but I was only having problem getting credit for the generator points (the long structures with the device that moves...forget their actual name), everything else I was able to join points in progress and get credit.
Let me make it clear: I support the removal of tagging, even V-Rex tagging (it's nice to see you can swap to others and still get credit if you contributed a lot, though, was afraid you couldn't and that was upsetting), but this needs to be fixed. No one who is actually participating on a point should be getting 5 dilithium, that's terrible. I'd rather leechers get to leech than see that happen.
Hmm, maybe it was a lower population instance, but I was only having problem getting credit for the generator points (the long structures with the device that moves...forget their actual name), everything else I was able to join points in progress and get credit.
Let me make it clear: I support the removal of tagging, even V-Rex tagging (it's nice to see you can swap to others and still get credit if you contributed a lot, though, was afraid you couldn't and that was upsetting), but this needs to be fixed. No one who is actually participating on a point should be getting 5 dilithium, that's terrible. I'd rather leechers get to leech than see that happen.
If it's just the generators, then the issue might be undue weight being placed on doing the interacts.
I see many people in Dyson idle standing by the Rex spawns, waiting for the bosses to spawn to tag and run to the next area to tag again, then running to command center and using party poppers as they earn the full reward as gained by a person who attempts to clear the whole map and stay through the entire boss fight.
I see many people in Dyson idle standing by the Rex spawns, waiting for the bosses to spawn to tag and run to the next area to tag again, then running to command center and using party poppers as they earn the full reward as gained by a person who attempts to clear the whole map and stay through the entire boss fight.
Are they doing it right?
They're not getting the full reward. If they manage to tag all three dinos they get I think 2500 dilithium and 3 implants. The full reward I believe is 4200 dilithium and 5 implants (not sure, haven't done the zone since the 50% dil increase, save for today's tests).
But tagging is the best way to do it. You damage one dino a bit, kill medics if they're there, run to next, do the same, run to last and stay there till it dies. When that one dies you go to another. Everyone does it and it almost never fails. With everyone tagging so long as a few people also pay attention to the medics there's no problem.
Don't let anyone tell you you're useless because you didn't stay and kill that dino you tagged - you ARE killing a dino, just not that one. They're the ones missing out by staying there instead of tagging.
Try to tag the city dino first. That's where the AFKs wait and it's usually the first to die. If you don't tag it first you might miss out on it entirely.
If it's just the generators, then the issue might be undue weight being placed on doing the interacts.
Actually I was having the issue on the relays (the 'king of the hill' ones where you stand in the circle and mechs spawn at 1/3 and 2/3 captured). There isn't an interact there, unless somehow proximity to the circle is counting. Q forbid you step out to try and get flank on something, I guess.
I've noticed in the past that I have trouble getting credit for generators when they're fairly far along - prior to this patch, I mean - unless I actually killed something at the point, regardless of how long I assisted once it was in progress. Not merely shot it, even if I did the majority of the damage. But this was rare enough prior to this patch I just shrugged it off on the occasions it happens. So there's always been a little something wonky in the activity threshold.
It's not just the generators post-patch, unfortunately.
I don't post much on the forums but I have to say that I have kept 12 toons maxed on dil for quite a while now doing just dyson ground for a few hours a night. At first I thought these changes might be bad for me personally but I have to say that I think they are a step in the right direction. I have to admit that I have not read all the post before me so I may be restating what others have said but I must say that I feel that what they have done is good over all. Dinos are going down fast because everyone is trying to get credit instead of just tagging and running (which I did all the time because it was the best way to get dil) which means zones are finishing faster which allows us to go to the next zone and repeat.
"Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you."
Friedrich Nietzsche
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Have been testing to see what works best everything was going fine right up until I started a capture point and stayed until finish but because 2 other players showed up after I did I got only 5 dil 0 marks. Warped out of Dyson and then logged out of the game, I guess people logging out is what they want since they keep installing little things to TRIBBLE people off.
Note to DEVS: You will not force me to go to the ghost town you call Kobali prime I don't give a damn how much YOU like your design it sucks. Ive experienced more rewarding teamwork in single player games than in any part of STO since DR launched, now your pretty much penalized for wanting to play the game with friends.
That's exactly what it is. Too much weight on the interacts, not enough on the combat.
Considering that there are only 3 or 4 interacts if everything moves smoothly... Yeah, that might be a problem. It is not that uncommon that one person is focused on the interacts and the rest shoots up everything that comes in the way.
It may be they have a "one-size-fits-all" solution in the weighting, and... it doesn't fit all.
Unfortunately, in my experience those generators are the points where you need a team the most.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Have been testing to see what works best everything was going fine right up until I started a capture point and stayed until finish but because 2 other players showed up after I did I got only 5 dil 0 marks
same thing for me and 3 times. An other time, i was in the other side; i had full rewards, then that i had done almost nothing (2 shots on a voth medic)
same thing for me and 3 times. An other time, i was in the other side; i had full rewards, then that i had done almost nothing (2 shots on a voth medic)
I wish they would leave stuff alone because every time they try and "fix" something that isn't broken stuff like this happens.
The devs enact another nerf and all you can seem to do is attack one another. I guess devs have learned the fine art of divide and conquer.
For my own part, if I don't start getting credit for the points I help take, I simply will not take that "take 2 points" mission anymore. The players driven by malice against other players will not receive even that much help from me. I will not have my game play dictated by malicious little nothings with such an exaggerated sense of entitlement, they actually think they have a right to tell others how to play.
Stop catering to the lowest common denominator, devs.
So the long and short of it, in real terms, is that this is another dilithium nerf.
When will Cryptic catch on that unrefined dilithium is NOT the same as cash. We aren't taking money directly out of the developer's pockets or the game's operating budget when we farm dilithium. We're using our time in the game and getting pixels as a reward.
Behavioural science has determined conclusively that positive reinforcement far surpasses aversive conditioning in effectiveness even in coerced, mandatory circumstances, much less when the participation is entirely optional.
When is someone there going to learn this basic, elementary fact about human behaviour. This is not hard.
Behavioural science has determined conclusively that positive reinforcement far surpasses aversive conditioning in effectiveness even in coerced, mandatory circumstances, much less when the participation is entirely optional.
When is someone there going to learn this basic, elementary fact about human behaviour. This is not hard.
Absolutely right. These attempts to manipulate players into using the Delta Quadrant instead of older content (or even recent stuff like the Voth BZ) are transparent and frankly the game risks becoming a laughing stock and Cryptic's work risks being seen as toxic. I don't just mean in the forums. The secret is out.
If you want me to play the new content you need to actually add some content. The end of mission rewards should feel like rewards, not like a grudging tiny tip handed to a waiter you don't like. It costs you no money at all to increase Skill Points. It costs no money at all to reduce skill point requirements.
You know what DOES cost you money? Losing players, especially players who then choose to vent their upset in places other than this forum.
The devs enact another nerf and all you can seem to do is attack one another. I guess devs have learned the fine art of divide and conquer.
For my own part, if I don't start getting credit for the points I help take, I simply will not take that "take 2 points" mission anymore. The players driven by malice against other players will not receive even that much help from me. I will not have my game play dictated by malicious little nothings with such an exaggerated sense of entitlement, they actually think they have a right to tell others how to play.
Stop catering to the lowest common denominator, devs.
What are you talking about? Are you even in the correct thread?
Comments
Yeah what he/she said.
I noticed no real change other then I was less frustrated which is a good thing.
Judge for yourself aside from what appears to be a few bug issues or something that is not quite right with the generators it really is not any different then before. It even seemed to me that the maps were progressing a bit faster, but this may have been because I was having more fun.
I solo captured 4 points and killed one Vrex.
I got appx 6000 dilithium and 5 implants.
I could see if I captured the 5 points or more I could have gotten 7000. With a little better luck I could have killed 2 Vrex. This would have brought me up to 7500 or 8000 which is what I usually get.
Summary: seems reasonable to me.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I'm doing that right now. I'll see what happens when I cap 5 zones and tag 3 dinos. I do not settle for partial rewards. If I cap 5 zones and tag 3 dinos who all die I expect the full reward. Any less will be considered a nerf.
Yes, it IS a bit odd that they keep coming up with these Devs to deliver total lies and then we'll never hear from them again.
Who would have thought an established company would need to stoop to the use of Sockpuppets?
Free Tibet!
rofl - you are going to see a change. It won't be drastic (from my point of view), but you are setting yourself up to ***** about it later and quit anyway.
So, can I haz your stuff?
Yeah, totally unheard of... *cough*
He's even been on the livestream.
Posts in a little burst every couple months, yeah i would call that unheard of.
The problem was I couldn't cap 5 zones. I only got 5 dilithium and no credit for some of them and that pissed me off. Seems if you try to help cap a zone already being capped you stand a good chance of not getting credit. I solo everything but this seems to force it and I wound up getting angry that people were already at a zone I just ran to to cap. That's completely opposite of how the zone should be played.
This change is no good but it's not quite the nerf I was afraid of, at least for my engineers because they can still tag dinos which is needed for full reward.. It's the zone capping that needs adjusting because I cannot settle for 4 zones capped and only a partial reward, when I know I've helped to cap more than 4 zones. It's 5 zones + 3 dinos or bust.
I'm wondering what my tacs will need to do to successfully tag dinos.
I wonder if it's the same participation metric bug that isn't giving people credit for waves on Tides of Ice even if they're there, active and shooting things.
The problem was that I couldn't capture 5 zones, again. They really messed something up. It shouldn't require you to solo a zone or else activate whatever needs activating to capture one. I stay away from the zones where you have to kill wave after wave of voth because they take too long. I only do artillery and that cylinder one and I used to solo them when I could (for command credits or else it would take too long to collect 60) but never left them if others were already there. We'd just do it all together.
Why did they have to TRIBBLE this zone up? It was fine. I almost never saw an instance fail to kill all three dinos and it was easy to cap 5 zones and earn the full reward. Why did they have to break what was not broken?
Hmm could be. I lost credit for four ToI for unknown reasons. They still didn't need to touch the bz though. It wasn't broken and now it is.
It's like mechanics wise, they don't want players to work together. Because I ran into an artillery zone that as not been at 30% completion and went from there and still I only got 5 dil out of it.
Now I know they are trying to stop people from running in, take a pot shot and not cap the point. But this is ridicoulus. I want to help people cap because the faster we cap the BZ, the faster V-rex appears. But why should you cap when you get no credit out of it?
Come on devs, really?
Yeah, I decided to do some testing myself, and it was trivially easy to replicate. Went to a relay (the one in Outskirts east of the teleporter pad) that was already in progress by another player, joined as he was dropping the 1/3 mecha and stayed for the rest of the time, joined by a third player shortly afterwards. Destroyed things vigorously, and practically soloed the 2/3 mecha due to being an engineer. Only 5 dilithium. So, yeah, it's busted.
Teamwork was OP and has been nerfed.
Let me make it clear: I support the removal of tagging, even V-Rex tagging (it's nice to see you can swap to others and still get credit if you contributed a lot, though, was afraid you couldn't and that was upsetting), but this needs to be fixed. No one who is actually participating on a point should be getting 5 dilithium, that's terrible. I'd rather leechers get to leech than see that happen.
My character Tsin'xing
That's exactly what it is. Too much weight on the interacts, not enough on the combat.
Are they doing it right?
They're not getting the full reward. If they manage to tag all three dinos they get I think 2500 dilithium and 3 implants. The full reward I believe is 4200 dilithium and 5 implants (not sure, haven't done the zone since the 50% dil increase, save for today's tests).
But tagging is the best way to do it. You damage one dino a bit, kill medics if they're there, run to next, do the same, run to last and stay there till it dies. When that one dies you go to another. Everyone does it and it almost never fails. With everyone tagging so long as a few people also pay attention to the medics there's no problem.
Don't let anyone tell you you're useless because you didn't stay and kill that dino you tagged - you ARE killing a dino, just not that one. They're the ones missing out by staying there instead of tagging.
Try to tag the city dino first. That's where the AFKs wait and it's usually the first to die. If you don't tag it first you might miss out on it entirely.
Actually I was having the issue on the relays (the 'king of the hill' ones where you stand in the circle and mechs spawn at 1/3 and 2/3 captured). There isn't an interact there, unless somehow proximity to the circle is counting. Q forbid you step out to try and get flank on something, I guess.
I've noticed in the past that I have trouble getting credit for generators when they're fairly far along - prior to this patch, I mean - unless I actually killed something at the point, regardless of how long I assisted once it was in progress. Not merely shot it, even if I did the majority of the damage. But this was rare enough prior to this patch I just shrugged it off on the occasions it happens. So there's always been a little something wonky in the activity threshold.
It's not just the generators post-patch, unfortunately.
Friedrich Nietzsche
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Note to DEVS: You will not force me to go to the ghost town you call Kobali prime I don't give a damn how much YOU like your design it sucks. Ive experienced more rewarding teamwork in single player games than in any part of STO since DR launched, now your pretty much penalized for wanting to play the game with friends.
Considering that there are only 3 or 4 interacts if everything moves smoothly... Yeah, that might be a problem. It is not that uncommon that one person is focused on the interacts and the rest shoots up everything that comes in the way.
It may be they have a "one-size-fits-all" solution in the weighting, and... it doesn't fit all.
Unfortunately, in my experience those generators are the points where you need a team the most.
same thing for me and 3 times. An other time, i was in the other side; i had full rewards, then that i had done almost nothing (2 shots on a voth medic)
I wish they would leave stuff alone because every time they try and "fix" something that isn't broken stuff like this happens.
The devs enact another nerf and all you can seem to do is attack one another. I guess devs have learned the fine art of divide and conquer.
For my own part, if I don't start getting credit for the points I help take, I simply will not take that "take 2 points" mission anymore. The players driven by malice against other players will not receive even that much help from me. I will not have my game play dictated by malicious little nothings with such an exaggerated sense of entitlement, they actually think they have a right to tell others how to play.
Stop catering to the lowest common denominator, devs.
When will Cryptic catch on that unrefined dilithium is NOT the same as cash. We aren't taking money directly out of the developer's pockets or the game's operating budget when we farm dilithium. We're using our time in the game and getting pixels as a reward.
Free Tibet!
Behavioural science has determined conclusively that positive reinforcement far surpasses aversive conditioning in effectiveness even in coerced, mandatory circumstances, much less when the participation is entirely optional.
When is someone there going to learn this basic, elementary fact about human behaviour. This is not hard.
Absolutely right. These attempts to manipulate players into using the Delta Quadrant instead of older content (or even recent stuff like the Voth BZ) are transparent and frankly the game risks becoming a laughing stock and Cryptic's work risks being seen as toxic. I don't just mean in the forums. The secret is out.
If you want me to play the new content you need to actually add some content. The end of mission rewards should feel like rewards, not like a grudging tiny tip handed to a waiter you don't like. It costs you no money at all to increase Skill Points. It costs no money at all to reduce skill point requirements.
You know what DOES cost you money? Losing players, especially players who then choose to vent their upset in places other than this forum.
Free Tibet!
What are you talking about? Are you even in the correct thread?
Which one are you in?