after being cleaned of charges after 5 days, and not having more than a few minor (and short probations after, less than a hour) ive decided to retract my statement, though my R&d folder is a mess, I will manage, I hope the issue with steam is solved soon.
Guess I won't be buying zen in the interim. Thanks pwe for the 'security' as you know the credit card companies, steam, the banks, etc.. don't provide adequate enough security for fraudulent purchases.
We apologize for the inconvenience this has caused you. To answer your questions, we recommend that you post in our forums. Kindly click on the link below:(this tread)
So i wanted to buy that hazari ship had 250k dill so swap some of that that for zen for keys sold them on ah, needed 10 more keys to get enough EC for new ship, got my CC got some zen to get 10 keys (they forced me to go through steam), did not get a msg that it was account bound when i spend zen, tried to put the keys on AH like i did 30 min before w/o real money and saw it was account bound.
So from what i read here that the sole purpose for witch i got the 10 key pack to get 24 mil EC of the AH are f-ed? never able to sell even after probation is over? same for loot from that comes from them if i am forced to use them?
So they sold defective item with no change on a fix or replacement is that correct?
i only play one character and have no interrest in opening lockboxes.
So they sold defective item with no change on a fix or replacement is that correct?
That is correct. Rather than waiting for your credit card transaction to clear properly, they load the Zen immediately; however, anything you purchase with that Zen while you are on probation will be account bound... a state that is "contagious" to any items you get from the lock boxes you open if you use bound Master Keys, by the way. Based on posts in this thread and elsewhere, however, the probation system appears to be applied even to those with a purchase history (those with LTS come to mind) and does not actually provide proper notification prior to purchase. In any case, as a result of "allowing" you to spend the Zen you purchase before the credit card (or other purchase method) is confirmed, the current Fraud Prevention System gives you more immediate access for personal use at the risk of wasting Zen on a purchase that cannot be used by the player as intended.
To anyone purchasing Zen in order to sell Master Keys or other C-Store items on the Exchange, I would suggest first attempting to sell a small amount of Zen on the Dilithium Exchange before making your actual purchase. As the probationary system also prevents you from converting Zen to dilithium while you are flagged, if the transaction succeeds you can then convert it back to Zen and make your purchase with at least some indication that your account has been cleared for normal use. Unfortunately, this is not a guarantee that the later purchase will be successful, as STO's customer service does not appear to have the capability to actually do anything to correct errors of any kind, and I have neither seen nor heard of an in-game GM with that capability. Still, it's at least something you can do... though it's sad that players need to figure out such things.
[NOTE] This is purely based on posts from the devs and players here on the forums; I have no intention of testing it myself by using Zen for Master Keys so long as the potential for a wasted purchase exists. The system does not prevent the use of Zen for purchasing C-Store ships, Fleet Ship Modules for personal use, services, etc. for your account, it merely creates an impediment to using Zen for the purpose of selling items to other players. Still, I can see how this would impact players wishing to do so and how it would cost the company money as a result.
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
Umm... The fact that this status remains forever is a serious problem for me. I stupidly assumed that the BtA status would clear off of items once the probation flag cleared, so I opened about 30 bucks worth of lockboxes, and got some of the space traits that are worth quite a bit. Now they're worthless.
Also, BTA Lobi takes up another slot in the bank that normal (also BtA) lobi takes up, rather than stacking.
Niice, Cryptic. I have a purchase history, too. Quite a long one.
I agree security is good, and am glad it's there....in theory. But the items I've percussed are now bound permanently to my account?? Ok... I'll give my doc. at call to see if these feeling I have are sane, but if not it's your fault I'm committed.
Do we know how long this stupid "probationary period" is?
I have been a STO player for a couple of years and I have made zen purchases for legitimate items (ships, a boff, ect..) it hasnt been until they recently added the huge demand on dilithium with the upgrade system that I have converted zen into dilithium. That being said I just purchased more zen today so I can run the R&D duty officer request assignment (1500 dilithium) and so I can continue to upgrade my weapons but now find myself waiting....
Could you get the developers to add an NPC on a major starbase that everyone can get to? the NPC would allow a person to trade in any bound to account (BTA) item purchased from the C-store, or gained from a lock box?
- Have the NPC check to make sure the player's account is not currently on probation and if it is, alert them that they are on probation and do not accept their trade.
- If the account is not on probation then accept the trade and give them back an unbound item of the exact same type.
I am just trying to offer a way to ease some of the uproar without compromising the security measure in place. It seems to me that many players are not just upset about the BTA items but more about not knowing ahead of time and not being able to use the items as originally intended after probation is lifted.
Operational Support Team
Squishing Bugs for a better future
I have been buying Zen twice a month since February and it still pushes me into probation status. Exactly what is the gate for "purchase history" to be able to get into the group that "rarely triggers" it?
I have been buying Zen twice a month since February and it still pushes me into probation status. Exactly what is the gate for "purchase history" to be able to get into the group that "rarely triggers" it?
Considering how long I've been a customer? I'm gonna go with "At some point prior to the formation of the Company"
Thanks for making an effort to protect us from fraudulent activity.
Nothing grinds my gears more then knowing some will attempt to cheat the system.
I've paid quite a lot of money into this game, and would be devastated to know that people are abusing the system.
I play honestly, and expect the company i give my hard earned money to is making efforts ro reduce fraud/gold farming bots, and a whole host of other undesirable cheats.
Thank you for the posting this good sir.
Live Long and Prosper
\\//_
This is bull....
Paid for all my ships with cash
Paid for dr pack with cash
Now im on probation for what?
5000 zen and cant use no of it if .no answers from dev just smart childish remarks from the tickets i send.
Yeah take my money but i cant use the goods. Wort gaming pr every i will never spend anything again in this game
I too was placed on probation status after using my Steam Wallet to acquire Zen, despite the fact I have done this in the past. I have also purchased Zen directly from PWE/Cryptic website. Apparently, Cryptic is forcing us to use only their software to prevent this in the future based on the "Mickey Mouse" response I received from customer service essentially telling me I'm SOL. I have a lifetime subscription and have probably paid for Capt. Smirk's last vacation. Unacceptable Cryptic!
I know right!? This event was the last straw for me in regard to ever spending money with this company again.
As for their "customer service" team, I am guessing they have little control over this situation while getting to enjoy a majority of the blowback.
Don't kid yourself, you and others who say "I'll never spend moneyz again" will jump back on as soon as this is resolved, or when they release something you want and you don't have the ore to convert to ZEN.
Don't kid yourself, you and others who say "I'll never spend moneyz again" will jump back on as soon as this is resolved, or when they release something you want and you don't have the ore to convert to ZEN.
Give me a break with your empty threats....
Nothing empty about it. I love this game but have no need to ever purchase zen again. In short, I have the resources to get what i want from STO without purchasing ZEN. Furthermore, this is not the only game I play and plenty of developers are happy to take their players' money without treating them like exploiters.
Anyways think what you will. I am a STO fanboy as much as anyone else but I will not be treated like a potential criminal for giving the developers money.
Don't kid yourself, you and others who say "I'll never spend moneyz again" will jump back on as soon as this is resolved, or when they release something you want and you don't have the ore to convert to ZEN.
Give me a break with your empty threats....
Agreed, it is not empty here either and will require months of sustained commitment in doing better from Cryptic before I trust enough to consider further monetary investment OR feeding anybody else's habit by converting any dilithium to Zen.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-) Proudly F2P.Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
Same here, i usually spend money on sto on a weekly basis, not that it's a huge amount but since i got a probation i halted all zen purchases. I still play STO but it's not the same anymore.
It's cryptic that's not allowing me to invest my money in the game.....
And since they are not commenting i really will not spend another dime on this game PERIOD.
Perfectworld:
My wallet has just put you on indefinite probation!!!!
I purchased 1000 zen last week to trade for dilithium. I did it through my steam wallet.
2 days later i did the same thing (not realising how expensive it is to upgrade ship weapons) and am flagged. Its not my first purchase, i did not use a credit card? I friend told me it may be something to do with using steam and i should have bought it though ARC so i went and purchased another 1000 zen through ARc using Paypal. I can understand Arc not being happy about fraudulent credit cards but as i say i used steam wallet and paypal. Were is the problem?
And its been 3 days now.
So if i understand this correctly, you do not have warehouses filled with lock boxes and keys,
there are not hundreds of trucks arriving daily filled with uniforms and you don't
have vast hangers brimming with shiny new starships waiting to be sold? Infact you
sell nothing.
So why are you so worried that somebody might buy 1 of your imaginary starships
with a imaginary credit card? "its not like you can send out repo men to claim
the imaginary ship.
And instead you have put in place a system so flawed it cannot tell the difference
between a stolen credit card and PAYPAL.
On top of that you have placed people on PROBATION
(a term used for criminals who have been let out of jail)
So let me get this straight.
You have taken my money and given me imaginary money instead that i cannot use?
You sell imaginary things?
And you have called half your fan base "criminals"
Not sure which one of us is getting ripped off, "pretty sure its not you"
"BRAVO"
never have i seen a game company shoot itself in the foot so nicely"
ENCORE!!!
Well if i have to wait 10 days before i can buy my imaginary stuff with your imaginary
Money then i can promise you the next time you will see any REAL MONEY out of me will
be in your IMAGINATION.
use PAYPAL. if they put you on probation and you have purchased before with no issues send paypal a claim and escalate it right away. cryptic will fail to reply (i know from past experience) to the demand and paypal will return your money pretty quick, PAYPAL is your friend, use it!
with enough bad reports cryptic will have to answer to paypal and they wont be the first "big" company to be kicked off their accounts.
it seems atm steam and cryptic are having a tiff and we are caught in the middle.
I think they can ban your account if you do this .
Kudos for attempting to implement a Fraud Prevention System, however, the system being used will not actually prevent said fraud and the Probation is completely unnecessary. I have contacted the companies that I have credit cards (I have four credit cards) with and explained the system being used here. Here is what they had said.
1) They all agreed that it is not actually preventing any fraud from being committed, since the charge still goes through. They said if a charge was suspected of being fraudulent, the charge should be placed on hold (since it is an online purchase) and the affected individuals and/or credit card companies should be contacted by the retailer to verify if valid or to just decline the purchase. However, I have not made any attempts to purchase Zen with the new system, so I could not say if PWE is performing these actions.
2) If the charge is suspected of being fraudulent and still being processed, the corrective actions by the credit card companies would still be same as without this system.
3) Three of the companies stated that flagging the purchase, in the manner being used here, is unnecessary since the possible fraudulent charge has already been processed. If the charge is revealed to be fraudulent, the data for the transaction has already been recorded by PWE and the credit card company.
4) They have also stated that with their own systems, if they suspect a charge is fraudulent, they contact the account holder (of the credit card) usually within 24 hours of said purchase, if deemed to be unusual account activity, to verify if it is an authorized attempt.
Take this for what it is worth.
"I'm not big on telepaths myself. I'm not big on guns either. But if everyone else has them, I want to make sure I can get my hands on the biggest one I can."
Comments
Thank you for getting back to us.
We apologize for the inconvenience this has caused you. To answer your questions, we recommend that you post in our forums. Kindly click on the link below:(this tread)
So i wanted to buy that hazari ship had 250k dill so swap some of that that for zen for keys sold them on ah, needed 10 more keys to get enough EC for new ship, got my CC got some zen to get 10 keys (they forced me to go through steam), did not get a msg that it was account bound when i spend zen, tried to put the keys on AH like i did 30 min before w/o real money and saw it was account bound.
So from what i read here that the sole purpose for witch i got the 10 key pack to get 24 mil EC of the AH are f-ed? never able to sell even after probation is over? same for loot from that comes from them if i am forced to use them?
So they sold defective item with no change on a fix or replacement is that correct?
i only play one character and have no interrest in opening lockboxes.
That is correct. Rather than waiting for your credit card transaction to clear properly, they load the Zen immediately; however, anything you purchase with that Zen while you are on probation will be account bound... a state that is "contagious" to any items you get from the lock boxes you open if you use bound Master Keys, by the way. Based on posts in this thread and elsewhere, however, the probation system appears to be applied even to those with a purchase history (those with LTS come to mind) and does not actually provide proper notification prior to purchase. In any case, as a result of "allowing" you to spend the Zen you purchase before the credit card (or other purchase method) is confirmed, the current Fraud Prevention System gives you more immediate access for personal use at the risk of wasting Zen on a purchase that cannot be used by the player as intended.
To anyone purchasing Zen in order to sell Master Keys or other C-Store items on the Exchange, I would suggest first attempting to sell a small amount of Zen on the Dilithium Exchange before making your actual purchase. As the probationary system also prevents you from converting Zen to dilithium while you are flagged, if the transaction succeeds you can then convert it back to Zen and make your purchase with at least some indication that your account has been cleared for normal use. Unfortunately, this is not a guarantee that the later purchase will be successful, as STO's customer service does not appear to have the capability to actually do anything to correct errors of any kind, and I have neither seen nor heard of an in-game GM with that capability. Still, it's at least something you can do... though it's sad that players need to figure out such things.
[NOTE] This is purely based on posts from the devs and players here on the forums; I have no intention of testing it myself by using Zen for Master Keys so long as the potential for a wasted purchase exists. The system does not prevent the use of Zen for purchasing C-Store ships, Fleet Ship Modules for personal use, services, etc. for your account, it merely creates an impediment to using Zen for the purpose of selling items to other players. Still, I can see how this would impact players wishing to do so and how it would cost the company money as a result.
Also, BTA Lobi takes up another slot in the bank that normal (also BtA) lobi takes up, rather than stacking.
Niice, Cryptic. I have a purchase history, too. Quite a long one.
I have been a STO player for a couple of years and I have made zen purchases for legitimate items (ships, a boff, ect..) it hasnt been until they recently added the huge demand on dilithium with the upgrade system that I have converted zen into dilithium. That being said I just purchased more zen today so I can run the R&D duty officer request assignment (1500 dilithium) and so I can continue to upgrade my weapons but now find myself waiting....
http://prntscr.com/58hl9b
Yet another ticket created...
http://prntscr.com/58hmnl
Could you get the developers to add an NPC on a major starbase that everyone can get to? the NPC would allow a person to trade in any bound to account (BTA) item purchased from the C-store, or gained from a lock box?
- Have the NPC check to make sure the player's account is not currently on probation and if it is, alert them that they are on probation and do not accept their trade.
- If the account is not on probation then accept the trade and give them back an unbound item of the exact same type.
I am just trying to offer a way to ease some of the uproar without compromising the security measure in place. It seems to me that many players are not just upset about the BTA items but more about not knowing ahead of time and not being able to use the items as originally intended after probation is lifted.
Squishing Bugs for a better future
Considering how long I've been a customer? I'm gonna go with "At some point prior to the formation of the Company"
Nothing grinds my gears more then knowing some will attempt to cheat the system.
I've paid quite a lot of money into this game, and would be devastated to know that people are abusing the system.
I play honestly, and expect the company i give my hard earned money to is making efforts ro reduce fraud/gold farming bots, and a whole host of other undesirable cheats.
Thank you for the posting this good sir.
Live Long and Prosper
\\//_
Paid for all my ships with cash
Paid for dr pack with cash
Now im on probation for what?
5000 zen and cant use no of it if .no answers from dev just smart childish remarks from the tickets i send.
Yeah take my money but i cant use the goods. Wort gaming pr every i will never spend anything again in this game
I know right!? This event was the last straw for me in regards to ever spending money with this company again.
As for their "customer service" team, I am guessing they have little control over this situation while getting to enjoy a majority of the blowback.
Don't kid yourself, you and others who say "I'll never spend moneyz again" will jump back on as soon as this is resolved, or when they release something you want and you don't have the ore to convert to ZEN.
Give me a break with your empty threats....
Nothing empty about it. I love this game but have no need to ever purchase zen again. In short, I have the resources to get what i want from STO without purchasing ZEN. Furthermore, this is not the only game I play and plenty of developers are happy to take their players' money without treating them like exploiters.
Anyways think what you will. I am a STO fanboy as much as anyone else but I will not be treated like a potential criminal for giving the developers money.
http://prntscr.com/59o8gl
Agreed, it is not empty here either and will require months of sustained commitment in doing better from Cryptic before I trust enough to consider further monetary investment OR feeding anybody else's habit by converting any dilithium to Zen.
Christian Gaming Community Fleets--Faith, Fun, and Fellowship! See the website and PM for more. :-)
Proudly F2P. Signature image by gulberat. Avatar image by balsavor.deviantart.com.
It's cryptic that's not allowing me to invest my money in the game.....
And since they are not commenting i really will not spend another dime on this game PERIOD.
2 days later i did the same thing (not realising how expensive it is to upgrade ship weapons) and am flagged. Its not my first purchase, i did not use a credit card? I friend told me it may be something to do with using steam and i should have bought it though ARC so i went and purchased another 1000 zen through ARc using Paypal. I can understand Arc not being happy about fraudulent credit cards but as i say i used steam wallet and paypal. Were is the problem?
And its been 3 days now.
So... how about fixing some well known ingame issues now after you have fixed your wallets?
there are not hundreds of trucks arriving daily filled with uniforms and you don't
have vast hangers brimming with shiny new starships waiting to be sold? Infact you
sell nothing.
So why are you so worried that somebody might buy 1 of your imaginary starships
with a imaginary credit card? "its not like you can send out repo men to claim
the imaginary ship.
And instead you have put in place a system so flawed it cannot tell the difference
between a stolen credit card and PAYPAL.
On top of that you have placed people on PROBATION
(a term used for criminals who have been let out of jail)
So let me get this straight.
You have taken my money and given me imaginary money instead that i cannot use?
You sell imaginary things?
And you have called half your fan base "criminals"
Not sure which one of us is getting ripped off, "pretty sure its not you"
"BRAVO"
never have i seen a game company shoot itself in the foot so nicely"
ENCORE!!!
Well if i have to wait 10 days before i can buy my imaginary stuff with your imaginary
Money then i can promise you the next time you will see any REAL MONEY out of me will
be in your IMAGINATION.
I think they can ban your account if you do this .
1) They all agreed that it is not actually preventing any fraud from being committed, since the charge still goes through. They said if a charge was suspected of being fraudulent, the charge should be placed on hold (since it is an online purchase) and the affected individuals and/or credit card companies should be contacted by the retailer to verify if valid or to just decline the purchase. However, I have not made any attempts to purchase Zen with the new system, so I could not say if PWE is performing these actions.
2) If the charge is suspected of being fraudulent and still being processed, the corrective actions by the credit card companies would still be same as without this system.
3) Three of the companies stated that flagging the purchase, in the manner being used here, is unnecessary since the possible fraudulent charge has already been processed. If the charge is revealed to be fraudulent, the data for the transaction has already been recorded by PWE and the credit card company.
4) They have also stated that with their own systems, if they suspect a charge is fraudulent, they contact the account holder (of the credit card) usually within 24 hours of said purchase, if deemed to be unusual account activity, to verify if it is an authorized attempt.
Take this for what it is worth.