Kudos for attempting to implement a Fraud Prevention System, however, the system being used will not actually prevent said fraud and the Probation is completely unnecessary. I have contacted the companies that I have credit cards (I have four credit cards) with and explained the system being used here. Here is what they had said.
1) They all agreed that it is not actually preventing any fraud from being committed, since the charge still goes through. They said if a charge was suspected of being fraudulent, the charge should be placed on hold (since it is an online purchase) and the affected individuals and/or credit card companies should be contacted by the retailer to verify if valid or to just decline the purchase. However, I have not made any attempts to purchase Zen with the new system, so I could not say if PWE is performing these actions.
2) If the charge is suspected of being fraudulent and still being processed, the corrective actions by the credit card companies would still be same as without this system.
3) Three of the companies stated that flagging the purchase, in the manner being used here, is unnecessary since the possible fraudulent charge has already been processed. If the charge is revealed to be fraudulent, the data for the transaction has already been recorded by PWE and the credit card company.
4) They have also stated that with their own systems, if they suspect a charge is fraudulent, they contact the account holder (of the credit card) usually within 24 hours of said purchase, if deemed to be unusual account activity, to verify if it is an authorized attempt.
Take this for what it is worth.
I wonder if they are not actually in breach of their own retailer agreement with the credit card companies, in that they are taking payment for a product they are not supplying as advertised?
Certainly the "customer service" department is about as appropriately named as 1984's "ministry of Truth".
Please note that this probation applies to all new/recent purchases from old and new accounts. The probation should be lifted within a couple of days. Unfortunately, this is a system generated probation and GMs cannot alter, modify, or provide an exact date on when it will be lifted on your account. The probation timer may get extended if you purchase Zen while the probation is still active.
I apologize for the inconvenience this may cause and appreciate your understanding with this matter.
Regards,
Iluniri
Game Master
Perfect World Entertainment
So you took MORE of my money and extended my probation "Now i am a reapeat offender, what happens if i get 3 strikes"?
You guys have lost the plot.
From what i can gather probation is supposed to only last 10 days... its been over 15 business days and i am still flagged for probation. I have opened multiple tickets only to be referred to this form series specifically by support, to resolve my issue . It does dishearten me that out of the 9 replies i received on my tickets 8 were canned responses, often having little to no value in them.
I have one issue when purchasing with a credit card I can understand but when purchasing with a steam card or prefect word card should have no restriction on that purchase.. I like this game I have never waited 10 days on a purchase on a prepaid card for any other game and my account credit card account with Steam has me in great standing for years.
So to set the record straight... Cryptic wants to stop Credit Card Fraud... by locking those Items to an Account, still buyable but not sellable on the Ingame Exchanges, which is completely useless at preventing fraud (it's akin to effectiveness of a Car Theft Prevention System that does nothing more than lock the Radio Channel)... but implements it in such a god-dang-my-head-hurts way that it flags almost everything and everyone that hasn't used their website solemnly and spend thousands of dollars AND is more or less a direct attack at Steam?
What do you want to achieve? Stop people from using Steam and "finally" have them all switch to ARC so they can actually use the stuff THEY BOUGHT FROM YOU to the fullest? At least that's my impression of the whole situation...
What do you want to achieve? Stop people from using Steam and "finally" have them all switch to ARC so they can actually use the stuff THEY BOUGHT FROM YOU to the fullest? At least that's my impression of the whole situation...
Thats exactly what they want but they are doing it wrong rather than giving people a reason to use ARC they are putting this fraud prevention in place. However I think a lot of peole will be causing Cryptic to lose money rather than gain money.
NO TO ARC
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Why couldn't a system be put in place, where you at least send the user an email, or some other source for authentication, letting them know that a purchase attempt has been made, and then at least have them verify that it's legit?
I have systems which actually provide real security, while allowing access to the rightful user, which work better than this. My normal card security works better than this, because it either blocks the initial purchase (not after Zen has already been purchased and cash exchanged...), or they reimburse if there is fraud. It's absolutely ridiculous that an account should be locked down for 10+ days (I'm at 6, going on 7), because an already established account and payment information, were considered "new", and therefore as bad as theft.
The other part I'm not understanding, is that customer service cannot reverse anything regarding this (their words). So in the event something actually is stolen or some type of fraud has occurred, what measure do they actually take to fix anything? It's almost as if we're protecting fake in-game currency, instead of the actual real-life potential for fraud...
On Thursday October 30, Star Trek Online enabled a new fraud prevention system. This system has been in place on another Cryptic game, Neverwinter, since July, where it has worked effectively. It has been enabled on STO due to increases in credit card fraud over the past several months.
What this new system does to protect all players is to temporarily change the way ZEN is treated by accounts that may be flagged for consideration in the new probation system. While we are introducing this system into STO, there is a chance that the rules may result in a false positive trigger but we have reduced the chance for that to the bare minimum. When purchasing ZEN, if an account is flagged, it puts the account into a temporary probation state for review by the system. New ZEN buyers and those with a limited purchase history may get temporarily flagged into the probation system. Once you have an established purchase history with us, the system is unlikely to trigger.
When on probation, Zen cannot be traded on the Dilithium Exchange to acquire Dilithium. Also, some purchases made in the C-Store may become bound-to-account instead of being tradable. You will get a warning dialog at the time of purchase letting you know that the purchase will be bound-to-account.
The bound-to-account status is contagious, so that if you open a Lock Box using a Master Key that has this status, everything from the Lock Box will also be bound-to-account in the same way. This contagious nature applies to anything you get from the C-Store that can be opened, and the purpose is to prevent fraudulent purchases from being traded off of the account.
The system is intended to have minimal impact on users who purchase for themselves. All purchases are bound-to-account, so you can still move the purchases between your own characters. This is only an inconvenience if you planned to purchase for later trading to other players.
If you receive the warning about a C-Store purchase being bound-to-account and do not wish to have bound items, cancel your purchase and try again the next day. The probation status is removed from your account once the financial transaction is confirmed, which can take up to 10 days. Any purchase you make after the probation status is cleared will not have the bound-to-account status added, and can be traded freely. Purchased items that become bound-to-account will permanently remain account bound, so you need to make this choice before purchasing.
Current and past users that have an established purchase history with us are less likely to have this ever trigger on their accounts so the majority of you should not see any difference when you purchase Zen and items.
Thank you for your continued support!
Aaron "Adamanteus" Biedma
Product Manager
Star Trek Online
WOW....It only took you guys a freaking month to say it, how about a word of advice....Next time tell the players before you TRIBBLE them over, and that way you won't loose paying customers like me...I said it before and i will say it again, good luck funding your next expansion because you will not get a dime from me.
WOW....It only took you guys a freaking month to say it, how about a word of advice....Next time tell the players before you TRIBBLE them over, and that way you won't loose paying customers like me...I said it before and i will say it again, good luck funding your next expansion because you will not get a dime from me.
A month? This post was made about 5 days after implementing the system.
Kurland Here Kurland Here This is Kurland Kurland Kurland Here Kurland, Do you copy?
This seems an awful lot like an attempt to punish the players who are still using Steam.
Again and again in this thread, and in other threads I am seeing that the people recieving this "flag" are Steam users, not those using ARC, and the PWE billing system directly. I myself use Steam and have been subject to this flag now. My credit card information has never changed significantly (my expiration dates have updated), but I have always used Steam, and will continue to do so. I will not be strong armed into leaving my preferred access method.
This seems an awful lot like an attempt to punish the players who are still using Steam.
Again and again in this thread, and in other threads I am seeing that the people recieving this "flag" are Steam users, not those using ARC, and the PWE billing system directly. I myself use Steam and have been subject to this flag now. My credit card information has never changed significantly (my expiration dates have updated), but I have always used Steam, and will continue to do so. I will not be strong armed into leaving my preferred access method.
The thing I find really 'funny' is that every time someone opens a thread about this somewhere on the forums, it's closed and they are directed to this thread. Even the OP directed someone here from another thread they'd created... But not one single Dev response to concerns over Steam purchases always flagging as suspect has been posted in this thread... They really are showing that they don't give a TRIBBLE.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
The thing I find really 'funny' is that every time someone opens a thread about this somewhere on the forums, it's closed and they are directed to this thread. Even the OP directed someone here from another thread they'd created... But not one single Dev response to concerns over Steam purchases always flagging as suspect has been posted in this thread... They really are showing that they don't give a TRIBBLE.
It's not that they don't care, it's that they are trying to force us to use their worthless, buggy, bloated ARC client.
Which nobody ever wanted to start with.
Which we warned them over and over was a bad idea.
Which they insisted on ramming down our throats, (or up our collective jacksie), anyhow.
And now they're all butthurt because nobody uses it, so they're trying to coerce us into doing so.
It's not that they don't care, it's that they are trying to force us to use their worthless, buggy, bloated ARC client.
Which nobody ever wanted to start with.
Which we warned them over and over was a bad idea.
Which they insisted on ramming down our throats, (or up our collective jacksie), anyhow.
And now they're all butthurt because nobody uses it, so they're trying to coerce us into doing so.
The only reason (and it's literally the only reason) I don't think this move in particular is an attempt at forcing people to use the Arc client, is that you can still purchase Zen through the website. That's the option I use simply because it's cheaper than Steam, though I still use Steam to play the game.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
The only reason (and it's literally the only reason) I don't think this move in particular is an attempt at forcing people to use the Arc client, is that you can still purchase Zen through the website. That's the option I use simply because it's cheaper than Steam, though I still use Steam to play the game.
It's only 'cheaper' if you get in lots of 5000 or more due to the bonuses. Usually the 10-30 dollar sets are identical, plus with Steam you can buy 500 zen levels which is nice if you just wanna get a service.
It's only 'cheaper' if you get in lots of 5000 or more due to the bonuses. Usually the 10-30 dollar sets are identical, plus with Steam you can buy 500 zen levels which is nice if you just wanna get a service.
I guess that comes down to location then. I can only speak for the UK, and all bundles are cheaper through the website than they are on Steam.
Join date is wrong, I've actually been around since STO Beta.
True alters don't have a "main". Account wide unlocks for all unique event rewards!!
As a Steam user, I will NOT be spending a dime on PWE games ever again. Not just because of this ridiculous (and potentially unlawful) system they put in place, but because I refuse to use their massively inferior "Arc" platform. I'm amazed they haven't removed the standard STO launcher yet, and made the Arc client mandatory. But I also know that such a requirement is coming, it's just a matter of time. Some might even say Soon.
And when it becomes a requirement to use Arc in order to launch the game, that will be the day I quit STO entirely, uninstall and delete any remnants of STO or other Cryptic/PWE related products from my harddrives.
Steam user.
Lifetime member.
Multiple purchases in the past.
Paid a sub back in the day before it was free to play.
Marked for fraud the last 3 times, and also did NOT receive a warning when I purchased my last purchase in this game.
Congratulations on losing a bunch of customers, since I informed my fleet and as we're a larger community with other games that work/don't flag irrationally/etc.... yeah.
I see a lot of different stories and reports here in this thread. What we need you to do is submit a ticket to customer service if you were placed on probation and you have previous purchases, the probation did not lift by day 10, you were placed on probation for a 2nd time after already being on it once, etc.
In your ticket, make sure to include the date/time of your purchase, where/how you made your purchase (i.e. Steam, Arc - Paypal, Arc - Moneybookers, etc.), and other pertinent information about your account/purchase.
We need to gather all of the different reports, sort through them, and check into the system to see what is actually happening. This system was put in place on Neverwinter several months ago and is working as intended so we need to narrow down if and what is occurring.
I see a lot of different stories and reports here in this thread. What we need you to do is submit a ticket to customer service if you were placed on probation and you have previous purchases, the probation did not lift by day 10, you were placed on probation for a 2nd time after already being on it once, etc.
In your ticket, make sure to include the date/time of your purchase, where/how you made your purchase (i.e. Steam, Arc - Paypal, Arc - Moneybookers, etc.), and other pertinent information about your account/purchase.
We need to gather all of the different reports, sort through them, and check into the system to see what is actually happening. This system was put in place on Neverwinter several months ago and is working as intended so we need to narrow down if and what is occurring.
I have submitted more than one ticket over this over the course of the past month and have always been told the same thing. That CS has no control over it, and that Steam purchases are automatically flagged. So why submit another ticket with the same information that will get a canned response because you don't converse with the CS team and they, clearly, don't converse with you?
I see a lot of different stories and reports here in this thread. What we need you to do is submit a ticket to customer service if you were placed on probation and you have previous purchases, the probation did not lift by day 10, you were placed on probation for a 2nd time after already being on it once, etc.
In your ticket, make sure to include the date/time of your purchase, where/how you made your purchase (i.e. Steam, Arc - Paypal, Arc - Moneybookers, etc.), and other pertinent information about your account/purchase.
We need to gather all of the different reports, sort through them, and check into the system to see what is actually happening. This system was put in place on Neverwinter several months ago and is working as intended so we need to narrow down if and what is occurring.
quick question, is that 10 business days or 10 24 hour periods irregardless of holidays and weekends?
I have submitted more than one ticket over this over the course of the past month and have always been told the same thing. That CS has no control over it, and that Steam purchases are automatically flagged. So why submit another ticket with the same information that will get a canned response because you don't converse with the CS team and they, clearly, don't converse with you?
Well, one could hope that they finally have communicated now, and sorted these things through.
Maybe as a bonus, you can put in the link to this post by pweadamanteus.
This system was put in place on Neverwinter several months ago and is working as intended so we need to narrow down if and what is occurring.
[
You're missing a "THERE" as in "It's working as intended THERE". Because it doesn't seem to be working as intended for STO.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
After you taking me money I have to sit in probation? Are you effin kidding me? Don't get me wrong I know more security is good thing, BUT upon purchase this was not made evident to me nor was I made aware of this UNTIL now.
ROFL...
If there is a probation system in this game I am pretty much going to be a 3rd striker... I just wonder what prison I will be sent to for my crimes against the federation.
Edit: Although since the bortasqu' incident where they let the small minority of people who care about federation pvp dictate how that ship was designed and haven't done enough imo for KDF development they have no worries about me even attempting to do anything that will get real money sent to buy something on my account roflmao.
So, I understood the probation system, I was fine with that, as I had no real intention of trading or selling anything. My biggest issue right now is the Lobi Crystals.. I now have two stacks of them, one with 17, and one with 30, and they won't merge. One of them is from my probation purchase.
I can't help but feel that perhaps, if there is any doubt on the legitimate nature of a purchase.. that instead of a probation system that screws up peoples inventories.. they should just freeze Zen Store purchases of that account entirely...
I purchased a C-Store ship for my friend and one for myself. Even though I informed the staff of this transaction and it's validity, they still placed my account on probation. Be careful if you have kids or friends you wish to help out, as Craptic will f*** you over.
I purchased a C-Store ship for my friend and one for myself. Even though I informed the staff of this transaction and it's validity, they still placed my account on probation. Be careful if you have kids or friends you wish to help out, as Craptic will f*** you over.
It is an automatic system. A Cryptic or PWE staff member does not choose who gets put on probation personally. There are warnings when you purchase the Zen itself to indicate if your account has been flagged for the probation system. Once the purchase clears the probation is lifted. However, any item you purchased during the probation waiting period will be bound to your account and that does not lift.
I purchased a C-Store ship for my friend and one for myself. Even though I informed the staff of this transaction and it's validity, they still placed my account on probation. Be careful if you have kids or friends you wish to help out, as Craptic will f*** you over.
This is why I don't spend any money on this game. Especially besides the fact that they reserve the right to alter what you buy at any time. They do things like DR where you are basically regrinding to upgrade your ships and gear that you already paid for. They used to boast they had such a broad vision for this game but its come to a regrind or revamp of whats in the game already. If they put me on this probation thing I most likely would uninstall.
Comments
I wonder if they are not actually in breach of their own retailer agreement with the credit card companies, in that they are taking payment for a product they are not supplying as advertised?
Certainly the "customer service" department is about as appropriately named as 1984's "ministry of Truth".
So you took MORE of my money and extended my probation "Now i am a reapeat offender, what happens if i get 3 strikes"?
You guys have lost the plot.
I've missed quite a spectacle here, huh?
So to set the record straight... Cryptic wants to stop Credit Card Fraud... by locking those Items to an Account, still buyable but not sellable on the Ingame Exchanges, which is completely useless at preventing fraud (it's akin to effectiveness of a Car Theft Prevention System that does nothing more than lock the Radio Channel)... but implements it in such a god-dang-my-head-hurts way that it flags almost everything and everyone that hasn't used their website solemnly and spend thousands of dollars AND is more or less a direct attack at Steam?
What do you want to achieve? Stop people from using Steam and "finally" have them all switch to ARC so they can actually use the stuff THEY BOUGHT FROM YOU to the fullest? At least that's my impression of the whole situation...
Cryptic should offer to unbind all the items for people who mistakenly bought Zen from them since this happened.
Thats exactly what they want but they are doing it wrong rather than giving people a reason to use ARC they are putting this fraud prevention in place. However I think a lot of peole will be causing Cryptic to lose money rather than gain money.
Vice Admiral Volmack ISS Thundermole
Brigadier General Jokag IKS Gorkan
Centurion Kares RRW Tomalak
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I have systems which actually provide real security, while allowing access to the rightful user, which work better than this. My normal card security works better than this, because it either blocks the initial purchase (not after Zen has already been purchased and cash exchanged...), or they reimburse if there is fraud. It's absolutely ridiculous that an account should be locked down for 10+ days (I'm at 6, going on 7), because an already established account and payment information, were considered "new", and therefore as bad as theft.
The other part I'm not understanding, is that customer service cannot reverse anything regarding this (their words). So in the event something actually is stolen or some type of fraud has occurred, what measure do they actually take to fix anything? It's almost as if we're protecting fake in-game currency, instead of the actual real-life potential for fraud...
A month? This post was made about 5 days after implementing the system.
Again and again in this thread, and in other threads I am seeing that the people recieving this "flag" are Steam users, not those using ARC, and the PWE billing system directly. I myself use Steam and have been subject to this flag now. My credit card information has never changed significantly (my expiration dates have updated), but I have always used Steam, and will continue to do so. I will not be strong armed into leaving my preferred access method.
The thing I find really 'funny' is that every time someone opens a thread about this somewhere on the forums, it's closed and they are directed to this thread. Even the OP directed someone here from another thread they'd created... But not one single Dev response to concerns over Steam purchases always flagging as suspect has been posted in this thread... They really are showing that they don't give a TRIBBLE.
It's not that they don't care, it's that they are trying to force us to use their worthless, buggy, bloated ARC client.
Which nobody ever wanted to start with.
Which we warned them over and over was a bad idea.
Which they insisted on ramming down our throats, (or up our collective jacksie), anyhow.
And now they're all butthurt because nobody uses it, so they're trying to coerce us into doing so.
The only reason (and it's literally the only reason) I don't think this move in particular is an attempt at forcing people to use the Arc client, is that you can still purchase Zen through the website. That's the option I use simply because it's cheaper than Steam, though I still use Steam to play the game.
It's only 'cheaper' if you get in lots of 5000 or more due to the bonuses. Usually the 10-30 dollar sets are identical, plus with Steam you can buy 500 zen levels which is nice if you just wanna get a service.
I guess that comes down to location then. I can only speak for the UK, and all bundles are cheaper through the website than they are on Steam.
And when it becomes a requirement to use Arc in order to launch the game, that will be the day I quit STO entirely, uninstall and delete any remnants of STO or other Cryptic/PWE related products from my harddrives.
Lifetime member.
Multiple purchases in the past.
Paid a sub back in the day before it was free to play.
Marked for fraud the last 3 times, and also did NOT receive a warning when I purchased my last purchase in this game.
Congratulations on losing a bunch of customers, since I informed my fleet and as we're a larger community with other games that work/don't flag irrationally/etc.... yeah.
In your ticket, make sure to include the date/time of your purchase, where/how you made your purchase (i.e. Steam, Arc - Paypal, Arc - Moneybookers, etc.), and other pertinent information about your account/purchase.
We need to gather all of the different reports, sort through them, and check into the system to see what is actually happening. This system was put in place on Neverwinter several months ago and is working as intended so we need to narrow down if and what is occurring.
I have submitted more than one ticket over this over the course of the past month and have always been told the same thing. That CS has no control over it, and that Steam purchases are automatically flagged. So why submit another ticket with the same information that will get a canned response because you don't converse with the CS team and they, clearly, don't converse with you?
quick question, is that 10 business days or 10 24 hour periods irregardless of holidays and weekends?
Maybe as a bonus, you can put in the link to this post by pweadamanteus.
[
You're missing a "THERE" as in "It's working as intended THERE". Because it doesn't seem to be working as intended for STO.
A Romulan in Jayne's hat? That's awesome, well done.
Let us upgrade the Seleya Ceremonial Lirpa and Kri'stak Blade
ROFL...
If there is a probation system in this game I am pretty much going to be a 3rd striker... I just wonder what prison I will be sent to for my crimes against the federation.
Edit: Although since the bortasqu' incident where they let the small minority of people who care about federation pvp dictate how that ship was designed and haven't done enough imo for KDF development they have no worries about me even attempting to do anything that will get real money sent to buy something on my account roflmao.
I can't help but feel that perhaps, if there is any doubt on the legitimate nature of a purchase.. that instead of a probation system that screws up peoples inventories.. they should just freeze Zen Store purchases of that account entirely...
It is an automatic system. A Cryptic or PWE staff member does not choose who gets put on probation personally. There are warnings when you purchase the Zen itself to indicate if your account has been flagged for the probation system. Once the purchase clears the probation is lifted. However, any item you purchased during the probation waiting period will be bound to your account and that does not lift.
This is why I don't spend any money on this game. Especially besides the fact that they reserve the right to alter what you buy at any time. They do things like DR where you are basically regrinding to upgrade your ships and gear that you already paid for. They used to boast they had such a broad vision for this game but its come to a regrind or revamp of whats in the game already. If they put me on this probation thing I most likely would uninstall.