At this rate, throwing Tribble's out an airlock in the direction of enemies are going to do more DPS than any my ships! I DO NOT want to fly a Scimitar with BFAW and dual Aux2Bat in order to do reasonable damage! :mad:
Man the airlocks
Cryptic just don't know how class the ships right.......
bleeping dubal stand....
About time... ahh player balance... still a few bugs, but glad to see when reporting a major glitch actually fixes it so no more bragging comes around.
Here is a bit of satire related to this coming hanger pet nerf.
Doesn't it seem like cryptic is getting its ideas from the Obama administration?
It is almost as if cryptic should be saying:
"If you like your hanger pets as is, you can keep your hanger pets as is."
"Nerfing working content, doesn't nerf working content."
"We will never call a nerf a bug."
"We will not take your fun away."
"We promise you, we will make this game better!"
"I never told you there would be an expansion pack."
"Closing the patrol maps won't stop the spread of XP."
I guess pets been an alternative way to get decent dps and to not spend real money.
This is starting to get disgusting.
With Elite Dangerous launching this months the devs are really starting to push with their luck.
After doing a couple of runs with my Kar'fi after this was posted, I just more have to say 'huh?' At 5 stars my standard Fer'Jais had 31,826 HP, and the four of them together only accounted for about 2000 dps. Moreover, most of that damage came from their turrets, as their DHCs are never on-target long enough to matter due to the AI being pretty ineffective with narrow-arc weapons. So how is this even on the radar?
About time... ahh player balance... still a few bugs, but glad to see when reporting a major glitch actually fixes it so no more bragging comes around.
Yeah, those cheating exploiting TRIBBLE and their "Today, three of my twelve elite probes survived a battle with a single kazon frigate on normal, and did almost half the work while I kept it APB'd! The last three died when its core breached though". Forget the bio-neural gelpacks not actually giving the subsystem energy they claim, no full complement of two hangars should ever be of any use even when supported by their mothership!
Here is a bit of satire related to this coming hanger pet nerf.
Doesn't it seem like cryptic is getting its ideas from the Obama administration?
It is almost as if cryptic should be saying:
"If you like your hanger pets as is, you can keep your hanger pets as is."
"Nerfing working content, doesn't nerf working content."
"We will never call a nerf a bug."
"We will not take your fun away."
"We promise you, we will make this game better!"
"I never told you there would be an expansion pack."
"Closing the patrol maps won't stop the spread of XP."
Your first Obama post today wasn't enough? Have that much hate for the secret Kenyan Mooslem? How have you survived the past 6 years?? Oh. Perfectly fine. NM.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Ya know it'd be one thing to say 'we're nerfing pets but to make up for it we're fixing their idiotic behavior (not following commands, getting lost, being drawn to every single warp core breach, etc.' but this is really over the top.
Well played Cryptic. We suspected you goobers did not have the player's best interests at heart, but dayum !!!
Well, there goes my suggestion to make the Mobius console scale more like NPCs and less like players.
While a slight nerf might have been in order, a full nerf down to scaling off the player seems to make these worthless in a world where NPCs scale at high magnitudes since the same reasons for making NPCs tough (lack of AI, for example) apply almost equally to player pets.
I think what would make the most sense for my money would be to have player pets (including Fleet Support and Mobius decoys, along with the listed items) derive 50% of their scaling from NPCs of their level and 50% of scaling from the player.
This would reflect their status as "half AI/half player controlled" ships.
STEP 1 GET EVERYONE MONEY FOR BUG SHIPS
STEP 2 PROFIT
STEP 3 INCREASING LVL CAP TO 60
STEP 4 GET EVERYONE MONEY FOR INTEL SHIPS
STEP 5 PROFIT
STEP 6 NERF IT ALL STARTING WITH CARRIERS
STEP 7 MAKE ALL THE MONEY YOU CAN BE FOR YOU LOSE RIGHTS TO STAR TREK AND GAME GOES BELLY UP:mad::mad::mad:
So what? you are not a mindless NPC that needs extra hull to compensate of its lack of intelligence and lack of DPS.
With that setup you can Scatter volley 3 a mob, with EPW, Tact Team, APO, DEM and juts about most pre-DR NPCs are dead in 1 volley. You would be able to kill most 80k+ hulled hanger pets in 1 pass.
Is this the official way to communicate from now on? Some random thread in a subforum, not even sticky? Where are the community managers and the mods... somebody... anybody?
Just don't. Please. The amount of "Yay, look at our new content... you're not looking at it hard enough... why aren't your worshiping it? THAT'S IT, WE'RE GONNA NERF THE EVERLOVIN' (expletive of choice) OUT OF YOUR EXISTING STUFF SINCE YOU'RE NOT BOWING DOWN TO THE NEW STUFF!" is getting ridiculous.
As it is, the only pets that even work for me are fleet Elite Weavers. Scorpions? Peregrines? Swarmers? Hah. They explode when looked at for more than two seconds. JHAS frigates *might* work, but I can't/won't shell out that much just for some new pets.
You've already screwed my gear, my progression rate, my alts, my rep... leave me my carrier pets. Please?
Last night was the first night I tried out my Recluses since the expansion. I was pleasantly surprised to see they seemed to have a fighting chance right out of the box, but apparently that just meant they must have been overpowered.
FIX SOMETHING THAT NEEDS FIXED... LIKE THE UI ISSUES OR GRAPHICS LAG I DON'T KNOW SOME ON THAT LIST OF STUFF YOU IGNORE MAYBE LEVELING XP...FIX STUFF THAT NEEDS FIXED CARRIERS DON'T NEED NERF OR THE PETS... TALK TO MORE MORONS WHO DON'T KNOW HOW FLY THERE SHIPS CLEARLY YOU DONT PLAY THE GAME!!!:mad::mad::mad:
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] DELTA RISING FIXS THERE NEVER COMING WHY I'M I WASTING MY TIME ASKING FOR THEM ???
For whatever reason, the devs decided that NPCs needed bonus stat handicaps to make up for AI.
If that's the case, I think NPC pets perhaps should have more hull than the ship. Not as much more as we have on live but perhaps more nevertheless.
Compare an NPC Galaxy's health to a playable Galaxy. You'll see the NPC enemy has probably 5x the health. So having a player summoned NPC match the player ignores the reasoning for giving the enemy more health: ie. to make up for weak AI.
If a player flying a Galaxy could summon a Galaxy, I'd argue that the summoned NPC, being half AI, should have perhaps 3x the HP of the player ship. (2.5x being 50% from NPC value. 0.5x being 50% of the player value. Total 3x.)
Now, carrier pets would have lower bonuses than summoning a full ship copy but I see nothing innately wrong with them having more hull (say, 1.5x or 1.2x) than the ship summoning them, in a world where their NPC counterparts might have 3x the hull of your ship.
So my saucer sep.and hanger pets were to powerful. I must have been using them wrong because they seem to blow up all the time. Really stupid move here. Not surprised by anything lord geko and his merry men do to ruin this game anymore. It just means my exit will come sooner. My wallet is closed forever from these guys. Next it will be T5U ships were using wrong data and have to be nerfed. Don't be surprised if new and better pets show up in the c store.
Nope, not c-store expect a new R & D scool at level 20 you can unlock the ability to craft Epic level pets for 250,000 dilithium
PS.. Epic level pets will have same stats pets currently have +1 Beam array :P
Yeah, I'm going to agree that pet health needs to be nerfed and correctly scaled off of the player.
That said, I still stand by my opinion that pet movement speed should be buffed to compensate.
I'm not even asking for comprehensive pet A.I. to avoid Hazards, and imminent Hazards (Warp Plasma, Theta Radiation, Gravity Wells, Aceton Assimilators/Drones, Undine Rifts, Warp Core Breaches, etc.), although that would be nice and improve survivability without needing overly buffed health in a typical mission.
Despite the toxicity of the thread, I can easily glean that the main issue isn't with nerfing pet health, but that survivability is so dependant on pet health as a result of inadequate pet A.I. and pet controls, when pets should realistically rely more on agility and speed to avoid death -- and the brains to use that agility and speed to make up for their fragility.
Yeah, I'm going to agree that pet health needs to be nerfed and correctly scaled off of the player.
That said, I still stand by my opinion that pet movement speed should be buffed to compensate.
I'm not even asking for comprehensive pet A.I. to avoid Hazards (Warp Plasma, Theta Radiation, Gravity Wells, Aceton Assimilators/Drones, Undine Rifts, Warp Core Breaches, etc.), although that would be nice and improve survivability without needing overly buffed health in a typical mission.
Despite the toxicity of the thread, I can easily glean that the main issue isn't with nerfing pet health, but that survivability is so dependant on pet health as a result of inadequate pet A.I. and pet controls, when pets should realistically rely more on agility and speed to avoid death.
I think if you're looking at speed as a compensation then speed rather than HP should be the handicap awarded NPC enemies as well rather than their currently bloated HP pools.
The same essential AI handicap bonus for pets should be the same essential AI handicap for NPCs. Pets get less of it, fine, because they are not wholly AI.
But whatever AI handicap bonus enemies receive should be the same one pets receive, just less of it for pets.
I think if you're looking at speed as a compensation then speed rather than HP should be the handicap awarded NPC enemies as well rather than their currently bloated HP pools.
The same essential AI handicap bonus for pets should be the same essential AI handicap for NPCs. Pets get less of it, fine, because they are not wholly AI.
But whatever AI handicap bonus enemies receive should be the same one pets receive, just less of it for pets.
I thing the linear damage increase should be changed to be similiar to damage resistance curve. This is the main problem. Damage boost can go sky high. It should equalize all professions, Pets should be just the beggining of nerfing insane dps rush (where only tac captains can achieve enormous amounts of damage, leaving other classes obsolete).
I think if you're looking at speed as a compensation then speed rather than HP should be the handicap awarded NPC enemies as well rather than their currently bloated HP pools.
The same essential AI handicap bonus for pets should be the same essential AI handicap for NPCs. Pets get less of it, fine, because they are not wholly AI.
But whatever AI handicap bonus enemies receive should be the same one pets receive, just less of it for pets.
I Disagree. The NPC is an enemy. Pets are gear. we can launch more pets. When the npc is dead it is dead. Pets are not meant to draw aggro and tank. They are meant to supplement our builds. Do they die from scatter volley and Faw yes but not all npcs use it.
Pets can change their behavior based on commands we give them. NPC cannot.
We can heal pets even though we do not. Npc don't have that option.
Comments
Man the airlocks
Cryptic just don't know how class the ships right.......
bleeping dubal stand....
Obviously those cheating players were exploiting the ability of hangar pets to last longer than 20 seconds in a firefight.
This nerf puts them back to the useless pop bait as designed. Kudos Cryptic, keep up the FANTASTIC work!
Doesn't it seem like cryptic is getting its ideas from the Obama administration?
It is almost as if cryptic should be saying:
"If you like your hanger pets as is, you can keep your hanger pets as is."
"Nerfing working content, doesn't nerf working content."
"We will never call a nerf a bug."
"We will not take your fun away."
"We promise you, we will make this game better!"
"I never told you there would be an expansion pack."
"Closing the patrol maps won't stop the spread of XP."
This is starting to get disgusting.
With Elite Dangerous launching this months the devs are really starting to push with their luck.
Yeah, those cheating exploiting TRIBBLE and their "Today, three of my twelve elite probes survived a battle with a single kazon frigate on normal, and did almost half the work while I kept it APB'd! The last three died when its core breached though". Forget the bio-neural gelpacks not actually giving the subsystem energy they claim, no full complement of two hangars should ever be of any use even when supported by their mothership!
Your first Obama post today wasn't enough? Have that much hate for the secret Kenyan Mooslem? How have you survived the past 6 years?? Oh. Perfectly fine. NM.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
DELTA RISING FIXS THERE NEVER COMING WHY I'M I WASTING MY TIME ASKING FOR THEM ???
Well played Cryptic. We suspected you goobers did not have the player's best interests at heart, but dayum !!!
While a slight nerf might have been in order, a full nerf down to scaling off the player seems to make these worthless in a world where NPCs scale at high magnitudes since the same reasons for making NPCs tough (lack of AI, for example) apply almost equally to player pets.
I think what would make the most sense for my money would be to have player pets (including Fleet Support and Mobius decoys, along with the listed items) derive 50% of their scaling from NPCs of their level and 50% of scaling from the player.
This would reflect their status as "half AI/half player controlled" ships.
Look at this http://i.imgur.com/EWK9fzS.png
My Pet has more hull then I do.
STEP 2 PROFIT
STEP 3 INCREASING LVL CAP TO 60
STEP 4 GET EVERYONE MONEY FOR INTEL SHIPS
STEP 5 PROFIT
STEP 6 NERF IT ALL STARTING WITH CARRIERS
STEP 7 MAKE ALL THE MONEY YOU CAN BE FOR YOU LOSE RIGHTS TO STAR TREK AND GAME GOES BELLY UP:mad::mad::mad:
STEP 8 PROFIT PROFIT PROFIT PROFIT PROFIT PROFIT PROFIT PROFIT PROFIT!
STEP 9 GAME OVER!
DELTA RISING FIXS THERE NEVER COMING WHY I'M I WASTING MY TIME ASKING FOR THEM ???
So what? you are not a mindless NPC that needs extra hull to compensate of its lack of intelligence and lack of DPS.
With that setup you can Scatter volley 3 a mob, with EPW, Tact Team, APO, DEM and juts about most pre-DR NPCs are dead in 1 volley. You would be able to kill most 80k+ hulled hanger pets in 1 pass.
Other than the Drone ship, most pets are fine! And some NEED BUFFS!
Look at ALL bird of prey pets ! broken! needs wider cannon arcs! rapidfire is broke too.
Look at Elite Swarmers.... broken! need hull buff! dies instantly
Look at Ultra Widows.... broken! need damage buff! so weak
...need I go on? :mad::mad::mad::mad:
Click to Join armadafleet.org/
As it is, the only pets that even work for me are fleet Elite Weavers. Scorpions? Peregrines? Swarmers? Hah. They explode when looked at for more than two seconds. JHAS frigates *might* work, but I can't/won't shell out that much just for some new pets.
You've already screwed my gear, my progression rate, my alts, my rep... leave me my carrier pets. Please?
Last night was the first night I tried out my Recluses since the expansion. I was pleasantly surprised to see they seemed to have a fighting chance right out of the box, but apparently that just meant they must have been overpowered.
DELTA RISING FIXS THERE NEVER COMING WHY I'M I WASTING MY TIME ASKING FOR THEM ???
Thank you for posting that.
And so does every NPC version of your ship.
For whatever reason, the devs decided that NPCs needed bonus stat handicaps to make up for AI.
If that's the case, I think NPC pets perhaps should have more hull than the ship. Not as much more as we have on live but perhaps more nevertheless.
Compare an NPC Galaxy's health to a playable Galaxy. You'll see the NPC enemy has probably 5x the health. So having a player summoned NPC match the player ignores the reasoning for giving the enemy more health: ie. to make up for weak AI.
If a player flying a Galaxy could summon a Galaxy, I'd argue that the summoned NPC, being half AI, should have perhaps 3x the HP of the player ship. (2.5x being 50% from NPC value. 0.5x being 50% of the player value. Total 3x.)
Now, carrier pets would have lower bonuses than summoning a full ship copy but I see nothing innately wrong with them having more hull (say, 1.5x or 1.2x) than the ship summoning them, in a world where their NPC counterparts might have 3x the hull of your ship.
Communication is appreciated, even if some of the news is not.
Anyways here I was almost thinking of opening up my wallet for a T6.
It has been closed for a while as your metrics/data will tell you.
This is due to the recent changes including the pap-grade system/XP fiasco/and over the top nerf batting.
I will have to state until I get my fun feeling back my wallet is going to stay shut like a clam.
Whats more of a shame for STO is that the money I use to spend here is now in a space sim developers pocket.
So far to the tune of $750.( And that is no bull. )
Here's hoping we get our fun feeling back soon.
As I am sure I am not the only one feeling this way.
But I guess your metrics/date has told you that already.
Nope, not c-store expect a new R & D scool at level 20 you can unlock the ability to craft Epic level pets for 250,000 dilithium
PS.. Epic level pets will have same stats pets currently have +1 Beam array :P
Yeah, I'm going to agree that pet health needs to be nerfed and correctly scaled off of the player.
That said, I still stand by my opinion that pet movement speed should be buffed to compensate.
I'm not even asking for comprehensive pet A.I. to avoid Hazards, and imminent Hazards (Warp Plasma, Theta Radiation, Gravity Wells, Aceton Assimilators/Drones, Undine Rifts, Warp Core Breaches, etc.), although that would be nice and improve survivability without needing overly buffed health in a typical mission.
Despite the toxicity of the thread, I can easily glean that the main issue isn't with nerfing pet health, but that survivability is so dependant on pet health as a result of inadequate pet A.I. and pet controls, when pets should realistically rely more on agility and speed to avoid death -- and the brains to use that agility and speed to make up for their fragility.
I think if you're looking at speed as a compensation then speed rather than HP should be the handicap awarded NPC enemies as well rather than their currently bloated HP pools.
The same essential AI handicap bonus for pets should be the same essential AI handicap for NPCs. Pets get less of it, fine, because they are not wholly AI.
But whatever AI handicap bonus enemies receive should be the same one pets receive, just less of it for pets.
I think that is also fair.
I Disagree. The NPC is an enemy. Pets are gear. we can launch more pets. When the npc is dead it is dead. Pets are not meant to draw aggro and tank. They are meant to supplement our builds. Do they die from scatter volley and Faw yes but not all npcs use it.
Pets can change their behavior based on commands we give them. NPC cannot.
We can heal pets even though we do not. Npc don't have that option.
Comparing pets to npcs is not entirely fair.
Pet AI is horrid, sits on warp core explosions... so lets nerf the them
Pet are slow making any target switch ineffective make them do bad dps.... so let nerf them
Pets die almost instantly to AOE... so let nerf them.
Pets only good use is in static fight and opening volleys... so lets nerf them
/sigh