When I saw this on the dev tracker, I thought it was going to detail some improvements like getting some UI for my Odyssey pets or actually recalling when I click recall (it's always the damaged ones that just fly around you).
How naive am I?
I've had that happen. Sometimes they just won't dock, even if I'm sitting still and waiting on them. Sometimes when they do dock, they don't repair while docked.
Pets are a mess in a lot of ways, pet scaling would be the last thing on my list of stuff to fix.
Cryptic you want people to spend real money on this game but how can people justify it when you keep devaluing there investment by making un-nessary nerfs and game changes.
I spend on average between £50-£150 a month on this game but quite frankly, since Delta Rising went live and how uncustomer friendly you guys seem to be becoming that stops now. I'll be more patient and let my dil build up and buy things that way
Oh and I really hope when the license is up for renewal this game is picked up by another developer to breath new life into it
First of all - thankyou for telling us about the incoming changes. You didn't have to and it builds trust, given that recent changes were contradictory to what was posted here.
Thanks for the warning.
It is in their best internist to do so, if not they would get flooded with tickets regarding the change.
As those that read the forums, Cryptic is famous for TRIBBLE things up without knowing it.
So any changed that are made MUST be given in some sort of communication to let the players know the a change is intended and not a mistake.
When I saw this on the dev tracker, I thought it was going to detail some improvements like getting some UI for my Odyssey pets or actually recalling when I click recall (it's always the damaged ones that just fly around you).
I was expecting the same thing. Please give us an UI for ALL pets including seperated saucers. It's very difficult indeed to determine whether or not your saucer is still alive when you are in the midst of battle.
I can see that pets dealt a little bit too much damage recently and that you have to lower their damage to appopriate numbers. But would you consider leaving hp and resistances where they are? It's such an improvement that even small and fragile pets can now survive more than one phaser shot.
I am thinking the majority of whiners here aren't 60 with their char yet.
My T5-U scimitar has 75,393 hull points and the Elite drone ship i launch has: 87,131 hull points.
That a tiny drone ship has 11,738 hull more than the huge TRIBBLE scimitar that launched it is ok?
Geko also didn't say how much the pets were going to change.
While i love that i don't have to resummon my pets every 20 secs atm, it's not really feasible that my pets are sturdier than i am. If Geko would just reduce the hull points some, and perhaps speed them up slightly so they can avoid hull breaches more, then it would prob be a change for the better not worse.
Edit: and to answe why elachi ships and kazon ships are there. Most likely due to NPCs being just as effected by it as players are.
Finaly got the armitage class ship after 1 year since I first saw it in the zen store, and then the fighters get shot out of the air, while frankly they are not doing that good now already.
I don't feel like the pets are currently doing that well. But I guess someone will claim I use them wrong.
But anyway... Okay so from reading the dev post. Doesn't that mean we are getting a buff?
I mean, if the Andorian Wing Cannons and Bio-neural Warhead is already based on our stats.
And the Andorian Wing Cannons does as much damage as it does! Even the Warheads cannon feels like it does far more damage than my carrier pets, even for that short time its out, before it hits anything.
Shouldn't that mean my pets are gonna be doing waaay more damage aswell?
Ofcause the problem I see is: if my pets damage numbers will be based on what I use for damage consoles.
If my ship runs one type of energy weapon type and I got that buffed out with consoles, and my pets buildin unchangeable energy weapon type is another.
They won't be gaining a buff, and now be useless.
So do we now gotta adjust our ships weapon-build based on what pets we got? Which means we can't use over 90% of the ship weapons anymore.
Sorry, but nothing good can come out of having to adjust your build, to match your pets weapon type.
"Please, Captain, not in front of the Klingons." Spock to Kirk, as Kirk is about to hug him.
Star Trek V: "The Final Frontier"
This is what comes from not using your own product and not responding to feedback and not having a proper QA procedure. At least this time you announced prior to the nerf and stated your reasons for it.
Honestly, where did you guys get your computer and customer relations training from?
Wherever it was all of you really need to go and ask for your money back.
A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
Pets shouldn't have static stats like they do now. They should scale based on people's gear. It's not ok that pets are instant-end-game-level in stats the moment you reach lvl 60. They must scale with gear. This probably means most people will see a dps loss because their ships arent upgraded completely. It's perfectly acceptable to have them scale based on your ship's items.
That said; pets do need an inherent unique bonus to damage avoidance. 80k raw hull pets is not ok. Instead of lighting the developers on fire, ask what's being done about pet survivability. If you all behaved a bit more rational instead of yelling immediately they'd be more inclined to discuss it.
I would love to go in dialogue and discuss this openly on the forums, but the continues attacks on the team make that impossible. Discuss it, don't whine about it.
I am thinking the majority of whiners here aren't 60 with their char yet.
My T5-U scimitar has 75,393 hull points and the Elite drone ship i launch has: 87,131 hull points.
That a tiny drone ship has 11,738 hull more than the huge TRIBBLE scimitar that launched it is ok?
Geko also didn't say how much the pets were going to change.
While i love that i don't have to resummon my pets every 20 secs atm, it's not really feasible that my pets are sturdier than i am. If Geko would just reduce the hull points some, and perhaps speed them up slightly so they can avoid hull breaches more, then it would prob be a change for the better not worse.
Edit: and to answe why elachi ships and kazon ships are there. Most likely due to NPCs being just as effected by it as players are.
Yes, yet your hangar pets are dumb as a post. They will follow you or follow whatever you say, and shoot at whatever, but will not take survival action to keep themselves alive, such as avoiding warp core breaches, flying around grav wells, or Haz Emitting themselves when they're on plasma fire or inside a blob of Undine goo.
I think it's same to assume that it's for this reason that NPC enemies have significantly superior hitpoints to player ships, even for the same ship. Case in point: my D'Deridex 69,128 HP. Acamarian system D'Deridex on Normal setting: 82,211, on Elite setting 273,674. Not better AI, not a smarter set of actions (e.g. "On normal the enemy will just attack you, on Elite it'll evade out of stuff, balance shields as well, etc)... just hitpoints.
The point is, higher HP for dumb-as-dirt non-player ships (and that's what pets are) is the way it's previously been "balanced". And now, the enemy NPCs will stay precisely as they are... while player NPCs are nerfed downwards. Why one, and not both? If this was done as part of an overall rebalancing of NPC hitpoints to address the issues raised over the past couple of weeks then yes, I'd wear it. But on its own, it's just "yet another way that players effectiveness is further damaged while the real problems stay sitting there obvious as dog dirt".
It still comes down to the question, why this, right now? Is this really the only thing they can think of to work on, right now?
Pets shouldn't have static stats like they do now. They should scale based on people's gear. It's not ok that pets are instant-end-game-level in stats the moment you reach lvl 60. They must scale with gear. This probably means most people will see a dps loss because their ships arent upgraded completely. It's perfectly acceptable to have them scale based on your ship's items.
Why is it perfectly acceptable to have them scale based on your ship's items?! You do realize that's just a new ploy/incentive to have you do the costly DR gear upgrades, right?! Same story all over again: drop your pets back to lower quality, and then, indirectly, have you 'buy them back,' to get them at level they are now, via the upgrade system.
Besides, my Tachyo doesn't scale based on my other items, either. Why should pets?! Doesn't compute.
80k raw hull pets is not ok. Instead of lighting the developers on fire, ask what's being done about pet survivability.
I think you just answered your own question: the 80k hull *is* what's being done about pet survivability! May seem like a lot to you, but pets are stupid, and often downright suicidal. And they don't come with boff abilities to boost their hull resists. The way they are now, at least they could actually participate in the fight for a while (perchance long enough too, to scale up a few stars).
Kind of funny given that just about every patch sense 2012 that touched pets included "Orion Slavers Changes - Beam Fire rate modified, mine drop rate modified, Stealing run cool down modified, Reduced Stealing Commodity slightly, and reduced Contraband stealing percentage slightly more". To the point you have better odds of getting 2 grand prize lockbox ships back to back than stealing any commodity let alone contraband.
Pets are not being being nerfed! They are currently bugged and the bug is being fixed. With 47 threads every week about why bugs never get fixed, they are fixing a bug. Are there bugs that need fixing more...certainly, and it is frustrating that the beneficial bugs get fixed first, but stop bringing out the "nerfbat" card every time something gets fixed. The pets are obviously bugged right now and not working as intended.
Pets shouldn't have static stats like they do now. They should scale based on people's gear. It's not ok that pets are instant-end-game-level in stats the moment you reach lvl 60. They must scale with gear. This probably means most people will see a dps loss because their ships arent upgraded completely. It's perfectly acceptable to have them scale based on your ship's items.
That said; pets do need an inherent unique bonus to damage avoidance. 80k raw hull pets is not ok. Instead of lighting the developers on fire, ask what's being done about pet survivability. If you all behaved a bit more rational instead of yelling immediately they'd be more inclined to discuss it.
I would love to go in dialogue and discuss this openly on the forums, but the continues attacks on the team make that impossible. Discuss it, don't whine about it.
That's a whole load of BS to have performance of hangar units tied to someone's gear. So because someone is a Wallet Warrior their hangar units should be unquestionably better than someone on a budget that saved up to get that hangar units?
So because someone got fancy shields, deflector, weapons, means their hangar units should be better???
What logic is that?
It's not enough that Elite Hangar units easily are the most expensive things you can buy outright from Rep Project items and Fleet gear?
So for a class of ships who's main purpose is fielding 2 full hangar units, which ARE the centerpiece of any Carrier, they cannot field the best hangar units they can until they get the "100% Epic Gear" or some other nonsense?
Another angle I have to put forward, is to look at Modern-day aiircraft carriers. I am sure that the itinery of aircraft (when fully deployed) will do more damage than the ship on its own, hence the logic behind a carrier.
Pets ability should be linked to a persons level - not thier gear.
We KNOW why you are linking it to gear, people are cottoning on to the fact you want to monetize every single facet of the game. And people are sick of it.
That said; pets do need an inherent unique bonus to damage avoidance. 80k raw hull pets is not ok. Instead of lighting the developers on fire, ask what's being done about pet survivability. If you all behaved a bit more rational instead of yelling immediately they'd be more inclined to discuss it.
People have been asking about this for literally years, they've attempted some stuff, but nowhere near enough. And even that attempt has been awhile ago. Then they started releasing NPC ships that might as well be named 'Pet Killers' for all the AOE damage they do.
Yeah, nerf the saucer pet. It's way too tough right now. Sure, it does like 50 dps and does not use any kind of ability, but lets nerf it. Lives way too long. stupid thing.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Maybe they could take a bit from the Vaaduvaar AI? It seems better at doing maneuvers and attack runs and many of the "fighter" pets that are armed with cannons would benefit from that.
Don't worry, Geko did not say: "Carrier Pets will no longer do damage". The damage will just be scaled back.
Though... some carrier pets are actually not supposed to deal damage. There are repair drones available!
We will be making some changes to Carrier Pets (e.g. Peregrine Fighters, To'Duj Fighter, Klingon Bird of Prey Pets, etc.), separation pets (like a Galaxy separated saucer, MVAM Pets, and TalKyr Support craft, etc.), as well as similarly related pets (like the Odyssey Work Bees, consumable device Scorpion Fighters, Gorn Healing Platform Drones, etc.). All these items are leveless items and all these pets were using incorrect data that was causing their HP, shields, damage and healing to be too high. In some cases, the sum of the players pets were far outperforming the players ship itself. The HP, shields, damage, healing and related values for these pets are all being reduced to scale more consistently with other player gear.
Look for this change to go live to Holodeck in about 2-3 weeks.
LLAP
Al Captain Geko Rivera
Pretty sure this means if you want them to be effective in post DR game you will need to pay to upgrade them in some fashion.
Seriously? With all the issues in game at the minute, the missing elite queues, the broken infected ground map, the complaints about the poor xp rewards and all the other bugs. You choose now to nerf carrier pets? I'd really like to know how you came to the conclusion that this is a priority over everything else. Has it ever occurred to you that things like this is why people are getting fed up! I really wish someone would please take the nerf bat of the Devs.
Yeah, nerf the saucer pet. It's way too tough right now. Sure, it does like 50 dps and does not use any kind of ability, but lets nerf it. Lives way too long. stupid thing.
*hugs saucer pet*
... I was already willing to go sub-standard with a Gal-R ... , but sir ... my knee is running out of room for arrows ...
Ok, yeah, I just saw the hp, 90k on bug pets.... maybe this is unintended, but maybe it's due to the npc hp buffing being way too much in general and so that should be fixed instead of just nerfing players, nerf the enemies too.
... I was already willing to go sub-standard with a Gal-R ... , but sir ... my knee is running out of room for arrows ...
The poor saucer was never meant to be more than a visual gimmick I guess I mean, not even tractor beams. Yeah, it uses antimatter spread (without reason, meaning as soon as the colldown is over it activates it, no matter if enemies are in the vincinity or not) but I think the tooltip even says it will use ET on you - it NEVER did that, as far as I know. Type-8 shuttle pets are more useful than the saucer.
The saucer actually needs a buff, not a nerf. It should be armed with a phaser array and a photon torpedo launcher (the saucer has a torpedo launcher, it's in the TM schematics). It should be able to use a tractor beam and/or a healing ability and more importantly it should be up to the player when it uses these abilities. Either put it on auto or tell it to tractor this/heal that, similiar to ground boffs.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
We will be making some changes to Carrier Pets (e.g. Peregrine Fighters, To'Duj Fighter, Klingon Bird of Prey Pets, etc.), separation pets (like a Galaxy separated saucer, MVAM Pets, and TalKyr Support craft, etc.), as well as similarly related pets (like the Odyssey Work Bees, consumable device Scorpion Fighters, Gorn Healing Platform Drones, etc.). All these items are leveless items and all these pets were using incorrect data that was causing their HP, shields, damage and healing to be too high. In some cases, the sum of the players pets were far outperforming the players ship itself. The HP, shields, damage, healing and related values for these pets are all being reduced to scale more consistently with other player gear.
Will you be nerfing NPC carrier pets in DR? They have more health than my own ship.
Now all an NPC will have to do with some of my carrier pets is look at them and they wull go boom. They already go down faster than the tights on a lady of the night in the FAW spam.
I have a sneaking suspicion, like another poste has said, that these will soon be upgradable. Either that or they are trying to force people out of the hangar ships and into t6 ships, as they aren't selling that well.
Well I have supported some of your changes even when they affected me. However you are now pushing it with this sort of thing. There are more important things that need to be looked at but you aren't touching, R&D, upgrading, tray load outs, gear just being removed from ships and going into your pack when changing zones.
Comments
I've had that happen. Sometimes they just won't dock, even if I'm sitting still and waiting on them. Sometimes when they do dock, they don't repair while docked.
Pets are a mess in a lot of ways, pet scaling would be the last thing on my list of stuff to fix.
Seriously?
I spend on average between £50-£150 a month on this game but quite frankly, since Delta Rising went live and how uncustomer friendly you guys seem to be becoming that stops now. I'll be more patient and let my dil build up and buy things that way
Oh and I really hope when the license is up for renewal this game is picked up by another developer to breath new life into it
As those that read the forums, Cryptic is famous for TRIBBLE things up without knowing it.
So any changed that are made MUST be given in some sort of communication to let the players know the a change is intended and not a mistake.
I was expecting the same thing. Please give us an UI for ALL pets including seperated saucers. It's very difficult indeed to determine whether or not your saucer is still alive when you are in the midst of battle.
I can see that pets dealt a little bit too much damage recently and that you have to lower their damage to appopriate numbers. But would you consider leaving hp and resistances where they are? It's such an improvement that even small and fragile pets can now survive more than one phaser shot.
My T5-U scimitar has 75,393 hull points and the Elite drone ship i launch has: 87,131 hull points.
That a tiny drone ship has 11,738 hull more than the huge TRIBBLE scimitar that launched it is ok?
Geko also didn't say how much the pets were going to change.
While i love that i don't have to resummon my pets every 20 secs atm, it's not really feasible that my pets are sturdier than i am. If Geko would just reduce the hull points some, and perhaps speed them up slightly so they can avoid hull breaches more, then it would prob be a change for the better not worse.
Edit: and to answe why elachi ships and kazon ships are there. Most likely due to NPCs being just as effected by it as players are.
well ok thx 4 info
but remember ppl will complain more bout too hard content with weaker pets
But anyway... Okay so from reading the dev post. Doesn't that mean we are getting a buff?
I mean, if the Andorian Wing Cannons and Bio-neural Warhead is already based on our stats.
And the Andorian Wing Cannons does as much damage as it does! Even the Warheads cannon feels like it does far more damage than my carrier pets, even for that short time its out, before it hits anything.
Shouldn't that mean my pets are gonna be doing waaay more damage aswell?
Ofcause the problem I see is: if my pets damage numbers will be based on what I use for damage consoles.
If my ship runs one type of energy weapon type and I got that buffed out with consoles, and my pets buildin unchangeable energy weapon type is another.
They won't be gaining a buff, and now be useless.
So do we now gotta adjust our ships weapon-build based on what pets we got? Which means we can't use over 90% of the ship weapons anymore.
Sorry, but nothing good can come out of having to adjust your build, to match your pets weapon type.
Spock to Kirk, as Kirk is about to hug him.
Star Trek V: "The Final Frontier"
Honestly, where did you guys get your computer and customer relations training from?
Wherever it was all of you really need to go and ask for your money back.
Pets shouldn't have static stats like they do now. They should scale based on people's gear. It's not ok that pets are instant-end-game-level in stats the moment you reach lvl 60. They must scale with gear. This probably means most people will see a dps loss because their ships arent upgraded completely. It's perfectly acceptable to have them scale based on your ship's items.
That said; pets do need an inherent unique bonus to damage avoidance. 80k raw hull pets is not ok. Instead of lighting the developers on fire, ask what's being done about pet survivability. If you all behaved a bit more rational instead of yelling immediately they'd be more inclined to discuss it.
I would love to go in dialogue and discuss this openly on the forums, but the continues attacks on the team make that impossible. Discuss it, don't whine about it.
sig
http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/5451/om71.jpg
It is a peculiar phenomenon that we can imagine events that defy the laws of the universe.
Yes, yet your hangar pets are dumb as a post. They will follow you or follow whatever you say, and shoot at whatever, but will not take survival action to keep themselves alive, such as avoiding warp core breaches, flying around grav wells, or Haz Emitting themselves when they're on plasma fire or inside a blob of Undine goo.
I think it's same to assume that it's for this reason that NPC enemies have significantly superior hitpoints to player ships, even for the same ship. Case in point: my D'Deridex 69,128 HP. Acamarian system D'Deridex on Normal setting: 82,211, on Elite setting 273,674. Not better AI, not a smarter set of actions (e.g. "On normal the enemy will just attack you, on Elite it'll evade out of stuff, balance shields as well, etc)... just hitpoints.
The point is, higher HP for dumb-as-dirt non-player ships (and that's what pets are) is the way it's previously been "balanced". And now, the enemy NPCs will stay precisely as they are... while player NPCs are nerfed downwards. Why one, and not both? If this was done as part of an overall rebalancing of NPC hitpoints to address the issues raised over the past couple of weeks then yes, I'd wear it. But on its own, it's just "yet another way that players effectiveness is further damaged while the real problems stay sitting there obvious as dog dirt".
It still comes down to the question, why this, right now? Is this really the only thing they can think of to work on, right now?
Why is it perfectly acceptable to have them scale based on your ship's items?! You do realize that's just a new ploy/incentive to have you do the costly DR gear upgrades, right?! Same story all over again: drop your pets back to lower quality, and then, indirectly, have you 'buy them back,' to get them at level they are now, via the upgrade system.
Besides, my Tachyo doesn't scale based on my other items, either. Why should pets?! Doesn't compute.
I think you just answered your own question: the 80k hull *is* what's being done about pet survivability! May seem like a lot to you, but pets are stupid, and often downright suicidal. And they don't come with boff abilities to boost their hull resists. The way they are now, at least they could actually participate in the fight for a while (perchance long enough too, to scale up a few stars).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32itsA81Ouw
This little follow up needed to be added.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Kind of funny given that just about every patch sense 2012 that touched pets included "Orion Slavers Changes - Beam Fire rate modified, mine drop rate modified, Stealing run cool down modified, Reduced Stealing Commodity slightly, and reduced Contraband stealing percentage slightly more". To the point you have better odds of getting 2 grand prize lockbox ships back to back than stealing any commodity let alone contraband.
That's a whole load of BS to have performance of hangar units tied to someone's gear. So because someone is a Wallet Warrior their hangar units should be unquestionably better than someone on a budget that saved up to get that hangar units?
So because someone got fancy shields, deflector, weapons, means their hangar units should be better???
What logic is that?
It's not enough that Elite Hangar units easily are the most expensive things you can buy outright from Rep Project items and Fleet gear?
So for a class of ships who's main purpose is fielding 2 full hangar units, which ARE the centerpiece of any Carrier, they cannot field the best hangar units they can until they get the "100% Epic Gear" or some other nonsense?
We KNOW why you are linking it to gear, people are cottoning on to the fact you want to monetize every single facet of the game. And people are sick of it.
People have been asking about this for literally years, they've attempted some stuff, but nowhere near enough. And even that attempt has been awhile ago. Then they started releasing NPC ships that might as well be named 'Pet Killers' for all the AOE damage they do.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Which reminds me of a sign at a flight simulator:
"Simulated Entertainment". Guess it's not real entertainment. Only simulated.
Its not just damage.....
Pretty sure this means if you want them to be effective in post DR game you will need to pay to upgrade them in some fashion.
*hugs saucer pet*
... I was already willing to go sub-standard with a Gal-R ... , but sir ... my knee is running out of room for arrows ...
*disables auto rage at devs touching my stuffz*
The poor saucer was never meant to be more than a visual gimmick I guess
The saucer actually needs a buff, not a nerf. It should be armed with a phaser array and a photon torpedo launcher (the saucer has a torpedo launcher, it's in the TM schematics). It should be able to use a tractor beam and/or a healing ability and more importantly it should be up to the player when it uses these abilities. Either put it on auto or tell it to tractor this/heal that, similiar to ground boffs.
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Will you be nerfing NPC carrier pets in DR? They have more health than my own ship.
Now all an NPC will have to do with some of my carrier pets is look at them and they wull go boom. They already go down faster than the tights on a lady of the night in the FAW spam.
I have a sneaking suspicion, like another poste has said, that these will soon be upgradable. Either that or they are trying to force people out of the hangar ships and into t6 ships, as they aren't selling that well.
Well I have supported some of your changes even when they affected me. However you are now pushing it with this sort of thing. There are more important things that need to be looked at but you aren't touching, R&D, upgrading, tray load outs, gear just being removed from ships and going into your pack when changing zones.