I lost some points, so I'm supposably one of those 250 people. Would you kindly tell me how I exploited?
I went to tau dewa at lvl 60 because I read on the forums the npc's are a bit easier there and levelling xp is nice and relaxing. I put the difficulty on elite, I then did the patrols on my own. I did this for hours, with voyager episodes on my second screen.
I then get labelled as a cheater and punished by the developers.
If I heard in WoW that levelling is nice in some battelground or dungeon, I would not get punished, even if levelling there was uninteded to be so fast. Blizzard would just fix the problem and let us be.
Exploiting is using game mechanics in an unintended way, how is putting a patrol on elite unintended???
Better yet. I am supposedly also part of those 250.
I heard about Japori and tried it out. ONCE on elite, alone. Then I did Cerraya a couple times, again alone. I concluded it took me more time to repeat those easier patrols several times than to finish one Argala patrol.
So I went back to the delta quadrant and grinded Argala on elite, still alone.
Can you explain to me, HarryHausen, how I exploited when all my levels (bar possibly 1 for the few runs in Tau Dewa) were gained in the Delta quadrant? You say leveling outside of DQ wasn't intended (which is a flawed supposition, but let's keep it for now). That's exactly what I did, replaying what even is part of the story content. Replaying what was told to us to replay when we were short in xp for the next story mission. And I did that all solo.
TOIVA, Toi Vaxx, Toia Vix, Toveg, T'vritha, To Vrax: Bring in the Allegiance class. Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider. Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
You have just admitted you utilised the exploit... Whether you are being honest, and you were truly ignorant to the fact it was an exploit, is irrelevant, you still took advantage of mechanics that were unintended...
People are behaving that this is the first time an MMO developer has punished people for use of an exploit... It's actually quite common, and happened recently in The Elder Scroll Online when people found a way to exploit their exchange/auction house...
I've been hit with a 3 day ban when I was playing Fallen Earth for the farming of an instance which the devs only intended to be accessible once... When it was still accessible, I like many others (approximately 75% of my clan in the end alone), began running it on a regular basis...
When the devs decided it was an exploit, they applied bans ranging from 1 day to a week... I'm man enough to accept in the back of my mind, I knew it should have only been accessible once, as it was a story-only instance, so I accepted I did wrong and took my 3 day ban - which was considered mid-range use of the exploit...
Just accept the fact that knowing it was an exploit, or just doing what the mob was doing does not matter, people gained an advantage through unintended means, in which case they are all libel to be reprimanded and the benefits they gleaned removed accordingly...
If you have been incorrectly punished, open a ticket and try and get the points restored... Claiming innocence on these forums proves nothing...
Exactly what was the exploit then? Since I can do the exact same thing I did in tau dewa patrols anywhere else? Did they give more xp than other mobs, if so, how was I to know what was normal, and what was not? Was putting patrols on elite difficulty an exploit? If so, why can this still be done? Were the mobs lvl 50? If so, why are battlezone mobs still lvl 50 and why is me joining those not an exploit today?
Exactly what was the exploit then? Since I can do the exact same thing I did in tau dewa patrols anywhere else? Did they give more xp than other mobs, if so, how was I to know what was normal, and what was not? Was putting patrols on elite difficulty an exploit? If so, why can this still be done? Were the mobs lvl 50? If so, why are battlezone mobs still lvl 50 and why is me joining those not an exploit today?
As has been explained, they were apparently providing more XP on elite than intended... Whether you were there benefiting from this knowingly or not, does not change the fact they were providing an unintended benefit and points were removed accordingly...
And to which battlezone are you referring? Dyson? If so, you are scaled back to level 50 when you enter, you were not in Tau Dewa and the fact you're asking this also suggests you were well aware they were not scaling there, which is the crux of the problem...
Just accept you were caught with your hand in the cookie-jar and claiming innocence does not change this fact...
Okay, so it seems you are accusing D'Angelo of being either:
A) Maniacally Evil and/or Completely Insane
He seems to me to be able to hold down a job and otherwise function normally in society, so I don't know what evidence you have of this. But the behavior of which you're accusing he and the other devs is completely irrational.
Why on earth would anyone in any business punish loyal paying customers? Why on earth would anyone punish customers randomly and for no reason?
There is no reason. And since D'Angelo is not a raving, drooling maniac, the only possible answer to this is that you are completely and utterly wrong.
For your side to be right, all involved Cryptic and PWE executives have to be insane. For the other side to be right...you and some other folks took advantage of (i.e. exploited...look up the definition of the word) a bug, got caught doing, and lost what you gained by it.
Simple logic, Occam's Razor, says that the devs are right on this one.
A or B... hmmm ... let me think...
I could flip a coin
Thats about the same method used to decide if this was an exploit or not.
The same method to determine if a player belongs to the people which used the so called "exploit" (which was a permitted gameplay element for many years).
Rofl, some people here arguement that Cryptic has the right to declare everything to be an exploit if they want.
Well... thats an interesting thought actually.
What if Cryptic decides that using Zen is an exploit? (based on some people comments they are clearly allowed to do that)
What if Cryptic decides to remove all your Zen?
Cryptic devs... could you please check if Zen could be used to gain any advantages and can be used level up faster than originally intended by your statistics? Can you please do that for us now and tell us if its an exploit?
We would like to know that before getting called exploiters.
Fact is nobody knew that playing japori is an exploit. Period!
Lets apply basic logic on this matter...
Logical approach no1:
Problems were reported to Cryptic by the players -> Cryptic ignored these reports completely -> players had no other choice to think/assume/believe that the reported stuff is fully intentional since Cryptic saw absolutely no reason to apply any fixes or release information about problems in these areas.
Logical approach no2:
Players used to level up from rank 1 to rank 50 within just a few days prior Delta Rising (it took me 4 days on my latest created char). The player had no reason to assume that all of a sudden the same amount of progress is considered an exploit after the release of Delta Rising. Fact is that prior Delta rising there were story mission rewarding 4000-6000 skill points for less than 10mins gameplay. Rewards in Japori certainly were higher... but not much higher actually.
Fact also is that the rewards in Japori and other patrol missions always have been that high. A fact that the developers of this game have accepted to be normal condition over years.
So once again no reason for the players to believe or expect an exploit there.
I wouldn't pursue that angle, if I were you. We have no evidence (or reason) to believe Cryptic didn't deduct the surplus booster-XP gained from the alleged undue leveling. Legal action, in cases like this, is almost certain fail. Sorry to say, but sadly it's true.
Best just to try and convince them some people had no intent to cheat, and could not have reasonably known their XP loot tables were faulty. That course of action also has a very low succes-rate; but legal action is futile, guaranteed.
Its not just about undoing the deduction. If XP boosterpack buyers would have known that within a week the XP gain would be nerfed, they would maybe not have purchased the pack in the first place.
The only right thing here is give the cash back spend for the booster packs.
As has been explained, they were apparently providing more XP on elite than intended... Whether you were there benefiting from this knowingly or not, does not change the fact they were providing an unintended benefit and points were removed accordingly...
And to which battlezone are you referring? Dyson? If so, you are scaled back to level 50 when you enter, you were not in Tau Dewa and the fact you're asking this also suggests you were well aware they were not scaling there either which is the crux of the problem...
Just accept you were caught with your hand in the cookie-jar and claiming innocence does not change this fact...
Caught for a crime I didn't know was a crime. A crime that had no documentation anywhere explaining it was a crime. Good one.
How was I supposed to know they gave out 'too much xp'. I didn't bother doing any elites in DR. You know why? Because everytime they introduce new npc types, they have more base hp than old content. Just compare klingon ships against tholian ships. I was under the assumption this was the case again. Dr introduced new npcs, so they should be a bit tougher. I opted to spend a night farming easier enemies. Since I did 20k+dps at the time I opted to do it on elite for the extra drops and xp.
I lost some points, so I'm supposably one of those 250 people. Would you kindly tell me how I exploited?
I went to tau dewa at lvl 60 because I read on the forums the npc's are a bit easier there and levelling xp is nice and relaxing. I put the difficulty on elite, I then did the patrols on my own. I did this for hours, with voyager episodes on my second screen.
I then get labelled as a cheater and punished by the developers.
You exploited because you went to Tau Dewa, admittedly *knowing*, upfront, the NPC's were fighting at lower levels than intended there. You were informed about the imbalanced situation in that system; moreover, you went there for the *exact* purpose of taking advantage of the situation. Sorry, but I would have taken your points too.
As has been explained, they were apparently providing more XP on elite than intended... Whether you were there benefiting from this knowingly or not, does not change the fact they were providing an unintended benefit and points were removed accordingly...
And to which battlezone are you referring? Dyson? If so, you are scaled back to level 50 when you enter, you were not in Tau Dewa and the fact you're asking this also suggests you were well aware they were not scaling there, which is the crux of the problem...
Just accept you were caught with your hand in the cookie-jar and claiming innocence does not change this fact...
More XP then intended by who? On heinsight more XP then expected by Cryptic. Absolutely not more then I expected or the players that were leveling at that time.
You exploited because you went to Tau Dewa, admittedly *knowing*, upfront, the NPC's were fighting at lower levels than intended there. You were informed about the imbalanced situation in that system; moreover, you went there for the *exact* purpose of taking advantage of the situation. Sorry, but I would have taken your points too.
Read my post above. It's normal to expect easier enemies in older content compared to new content. Also I didn't know they weren't scaling properly. I wasn't informed about the "inbalanced situation.' It was logical to expect older content to be easier, because older content ALWAYS has been easier.
Its not just about undoing the deduction. If XP boosterpack buyers would have known that within a week the XP gain would be nerfed, they would maybe not have purchased the pack in the first place.
The only right thing here is give the cash back spend for the booster packs.
Since they just removed another thread talking about lawsuits and all (moved to a hidden location?), I think they probably don't want us to talk legalese. So, let's not.
Caught for a crime I didn't know was a crime. A crime that had no documentation anywhere explaining it was a crime. Good one.
How was I supposed to know they gave out 'too much xp'. I didn't bother doing any elites in DR. You know why? Because everytime they introduce new npc types, they have more base hp than old content. Just compare klingon ships against tholian ships. I was under the assumption this was the case again. Dr introduced new npcs, so they should be a bit tougher. I opted to spend a night farming easier enemies. Since I did 20k+dps at the time I opted to do it on elite for the extra drops and xp.
Sorry, but ignorance is no defence... Cry foul that you did not know all you want... You went there with the express purpose of gaining more XP than you could elsewhere...
Failing to realise this was an exploit does not change the fact you utilised it, and are now complaining you were caught and punished...
Being pulled over for speeding and then telling the officer 'I'm sorry, I didn't know I was speeding, I missed the speed sign..' will not get you out of the speeding ticket as you have done wrong...
Read my post above. It's normal to expect easier enemies in older content compared to new content. Also I didn't know they weren't scaling properly. I wasn't informed about the "inbalanced situation.' It was logical to expect older content to be easier, because older content ALWAYS has been easier.
Easier enemies which were providing just as much XP as their 60 counterparts... Alarm bells should have rung here...
Again, even if you did not know, it does not change the situation...
You exploited because you went to Tau Dewa, admittedly *knowing*, upfront, the NPC's were fighting at lower levels than intended there. You were informed about the imbalanced situation in that system; moreover, you went there for the *exact* purpose of taking advantage of the situation. Sorry, but I would have taken your points too.
You seem to play just a few days. The mentioned situation fighting at lower level against higher leveled enemies (by matching the squad lead) is a mechanism already in game for years. Why else would the matching level with squadleader exist in the first place.
And because your level is lower then the level of the enemy you score more points. And if the difficulty setting is Elite you even get more points logicaly.
So no, the speed of leveling seemed completely fine to me, as the speed of leveling was similar too what I was used to see for years already.
The situation now is that teaming now makes players level slower. And teaming while on elite even slows down the leveling process even more then doing the same instance solo on difficulty setting normal.
So basicaly Cryptic now is discouraging team play, or playing on higher difficulty, if people want to level their toon. I am now playing solo much more because thats more efficient.
Don't come with real life analogies. Real life laws can be looked up. What the developers of STO intend cannot. I see no posts with what they expect or want us to do. That's that argument gone.
Secondly, there's no exploit if there was no malice. I had no intention of abusing a bug or a glitch to. Until they posted about it, there was no indication of a bug.
Thirdly, you can't expect everyone to keep every number, every value every design philosophy of game developers in mind when they play a game to entertain themselves.
And finally.
"Easier enemies which were providing just as much XP than their 60 counterparts... Alarm bells should have rung here...".
At level 50 there were also huge differences in npc difficulty, farming lvl 50 klingons is a lot faster than farming tholians. And to the best of my knowledge they gave just as much xp and loot as the tholians.
More XP then intended by who? On heinsight more XP then expected by Cryptic. Absolutely not more then I expected or the players that were leveling at that time.
From some dev blog a month ago: Upping your difficulty in the game has always come with increased rewards in terms of XP and Expertise, as well as increased drop rates on items youll enjoy a much better chance of rare (blue) and very rare (purple) gear items. With Delta Rising and the new changes to the difficulty slider, we will be increasing these even more, giving you even greater chances at higher quality loot drops than before.
I guess it's our fault for not realizing they didn't actually mean to increase the rewards.
From some dev blog a month ago: Upping your difficulty in the game has always come with increased rewards in terms of XP and Expertise, as well as increased drop rates on items youll enjoy a much better chance of rare (blue) and very rare (purple) gear items. With Delta Rising and the new changes to the difficulty slider, we will be increasing these even more, giving you even greater chances at higher quality loot drops than before.
I guess it's our fault for not realizing they didn't actually mean to increase the rewards.
I have had one... ONE blue drop during solo misisons....
Blues and purples in team patrols, but the rewards for solo seem lacking.
In Law, there's the nulla poena sine lege certa principle (= no punisment without a clearly defined law [to fracture]). Since there was no 'lex certa' here, the only pertinent question remaining is whether or not people could/should have known that NPC's, 5x as hard to kill on Elite, paying out a likewise 5x amount of XP, was an exploit.
Many people, like yours truly, didn't know; guilli88, however, admitted to knowing *upfront* that something exploitative was up in Tau Dewa. And for that I have little sympathy.
Don't come with real life analogies. Real life laws can be looked up. What the developers of STO intend cannot. I see no posts with what they expect or want us to do. That's that argument gone.
Secondly, there's no exploit if there was no malice. I had no intention of abusing a bug or a glitch to. Until they posted about it, there was no indication of a bug.
Thirdly, you can't expect everyone to keep every number, every value every design philosophy of game developers in mind when they play a game to entertain themselves.
And finally.
At level 50 there were also huge differences in npc difficulty, farming lvl 50 klingons is a lot faster than farming tholians. And to the best of my knowledge they gave just as much xp and loot as the tholians.
Wrong... Wrong... Wrong... Just... Wrong...
An exploit, is an exploit, is an exploit... Malice, intent, knowledge or ignorance... None of this changes the fact the mechanics were not intended...
And yes, I can use real-world analogies if I feel... I have also provided in-game (other games admittedly) examples - Elder Scrolls Auction House Exploitation and Fallen Earth Instance Exploitation (which I was even man enough to admit I was punished for)...
What have you provided to support your case, childish 'it's not fair' whining... You have yet to actually demonstrate a single point as to why you did nothing wrong...
Again, I remind you ignorance is no defence... You still benefited from unintended mechanics, as a result, Spec Points were deducted...
Just accept you did wrong, even if you do so in blissful ignorance, and move on...
From some dev blog a month ago:
Upping your difficulty in the game has always come with increased rewards in terms of XP and Expertise, as well as increased drop rates on items youll enjoy a much better chance of rare (blue) and very rare (purple) gear items. With Delta Rising and the new changes to the difficulty slider, we will be increasing these even more, giving you even greater chances at higher quality loot drops than before.
Reading devblogs is nor a requirement to be allowed to play the game.
I am done debating with you. You are incapable of seeing points from different perspectives. You are incapable of defending your arguments fully and chose to lower yourself to childish insulting.
An exploit, is an exploit, is an exploit... Malice, intent, knowledge or ignorance... None of this changes the fact the mechanics were not intended...
And yes, I can use real-world analogies if I feel... I have also provided in-game (other games admittedly) examples - Elder Scrolls Auction House Exploitation and Fallen Earth Instance Exploitation (which I was even man enough to admit I was punished for)...
What have you provided to support your case, childish 'it's not fair' whining... You have yet to actually demonstrate a single point as to why you did nothing wrong...
Again, I remind you ignorance is no defence... You still benefited from unintended mechanics, as a result, Spec Points were deducted...
Just accept you did wrong, even if you do so in blissful ignorance, and move on...
is your ignorance not a defen>S<e either?
some sad desperate forum troll stating his opinionated wrong views.
you surely didnt wrong since you are some slow casual baddie that
loves to beg for attention on forums all the time.
you never made a point, this time is no exception.
In Law, there's the nulla poena sine lege certa principle (= no punisment without a clearly defined law [to fracture]). Since there was no 'lex certa' here, the only pertinent question remaining is whether or not people could/should have known that NPC's, 5x as hard to kill on Elite, paying out a likewise 5x amount of XP, was an exploit.
Many people, like yours truly, didn't know; guilli88, however, admitted to knowing *upfront* that something exploitative was up in Tau Dewa. And for that I have little sympathy.
No clearly defined law, yes, but only in relation to whether the unintended mechanics were known or not... This still does not change that benefit was gleaned and this is less about punishment in the case of exploits as it is about general fairness to the rest of the player-base...
The people who took advantage of this exploit, knowingly or otherwise, have gained an unintended advantage over their peers who did not... This was the driving force behind the removal of the points...
The use of an exploit is clearly wrong... Again, whether someone did so with intent or not, does not matter, they've still received an unintended benefit from the utilisation of unintended mechanics...
An exploit, is an exploit, is an exploit... Malice, intent, knowledge or ignorance... None of this changes the fact the mechanics were not intended...
And yes, I can use real-world analogies if I feel... I have also provided in-game (other games admittedly) examples - Elder Scrolls Auction House Exploitation and Fallen Earth Instance Exploitation (which I was even man enough to admit I was punished for)...
What have you provided to support your case, childish 'it's not fair' whining... You have yet to actually demonstrate a single point as to why you did nothing wrong...
Again, I remind you ignorance is no defence... You still benefited from unintended mechanics, as a result, Spec Points were deducted...
Just accept you did wrong, even if you do so in blissful ignorance, and move on...
There is no prove there was an exploit. Only cryptic is, on heinsight calling what happend, exploiting. If that would hold as truth (but luckely it does not), every one can call you an exploiter for any reason especcialy when you are doing something others do not expect and punisch you. I am glad I live in a country where such a thing is called BS.
You are now showing who is truly ignorant here... I'm Australian, defen>c<e is the traditional English spelling, not the Americanised spelling of the word...
It's the same how American English supplants many S's with Z's (pronounced 'zed' btw)...
I am done debating with you. You are incapable of seeing points from different perspectives. You are incapable of defending your arguments fully and chose to lower yourself to childish insulting.
I'm sorry if you have nothing more to support your argument than 'it's not fair', but I can't help what is the truth here...
I have also countered every one of your claims with reason and examples or analogies, perhaps if you had done the same, you'd not come off as a child whining when being caught red handed that 'it's not fair'...
I'm not intentionally being insulting, I'm just not mincing words on this and saying exactly how I see the situation...
There is no prove there was an exploit. Only cryptic is, on heinsight calling what happend, exploiting. If that would hold as truth (but luckely it does not), every one can call you an exploiter for any reason especcialy when you are doing something others do not expect and punisch you. I am glad I live in a country where such a thing is called BS.
Sorry, but this was the entire reason people flocked to these patrols... They were too easy and many have openly said they dabbled, until they realised it was indeed too easy and stopped out of concern it was an exploit...
Wether defined in black and white or not, the mechanics were unintended, hence, an exploit...
You are now showing who is truly ignorant here... I'm Australian, defen>c<e is the traditional English spelling, not the Americanised spelling of the word...
It's the same how American English supplants many S's with Z's (pronounced 'zed' btw)...
Next time, try harder troll...
youre a australian? who gives a damn.
so you are that australian troll that never made a point.
get that fence defenced, lol.
stupid people acting stupid, too funny.
also my dictionary tells another story, uneducated fool.
I'm sorry if you have nothing more to support your argument than 'it's not fair', but I can't help what is the truth here...
I have also countered every one of your claims with reason and examples or analogies, perhaps if you had done the same, you'd not come off as a child whining when being caught red handed that 'it's not fair'...
I'm not intentionally being insulting, I'm just not mincing words on this and saying exactly how I see the situation...
Sorry, but this was the entire reason people flocked to these patrols... They were too easy and many have openly said they dabbled, until they realised it was indeed too easy and stopped out of concern it was an exploit...
Wether defined in black and white or not, the mechanics were unintended, hence, an exploit...
I have seen no one in game stopping with leveling for the reason you give. On the contrary I saw a lot of people happely playing and leveling. Untill Cryptic dropped their bomb patch.
Sorry, but ignorance is no defence... Cry foul that you did not know all you want... You went there with the express purpose of gaining more XP than you could elsewhere...
Failing to realise this was an exploit does not change the fact you utilised it, and are now complaining you were caught and punished...
Being pulled over for speeding and then telling the officer 'I'm sorry, I didn't know I was speeding, I missed the speed sign..' will not get you out of the speeding ticket as you have done wrong...
Ignorance is no defence...
Easier enemies which were providing just as much XP as their 60 counterparts... Alarm bells should have rung here...
Again, even if you did not know, it does not change the situation...
Nothing he did is any more exploitative than Dyson Ground missions (less so, IMO, since it didn't include copious amounts of dilithium), and those get reported, complained about, and then Dev-ignored as WAI.
So, being a condescending dev apologist and calling people exploiters or anything else is patently ridiculous. Do you also jump into Dyson Ground threads and call people cheaters? Do you "cheat" doing that as well?
I have yet to see anything written by anyone differentiating between the ridiculously broken Dyson Ground Battlezone and the actions over which people are complaining now. Because they're the same. The only difference is one is "Working as intended," and the other somehow is not.
I have seen no one in game stopping with leveling for the reason you give. On the contrary I saw a lot of people happely playing and leveling. Untill Cryptic dropped their bomb patch.
So, you didn't see it... Does not change the fact people have openly stated on these forums that they suspected the issue in question was an exploit...
Just have to make a specific point of this... This is a term that gets thrown around so readily on these forums it has lost all true meaning and is about as upsetting as being called a doody-head by an infant...
People really need to learn the difference between pragmatism and being a a true apologist...
Nothing he did is any more exploitative than Dyson Ground missions (less so, IMO, since it didn't include copious amounts of dilithium), and those get reported, complained about, and then Dev-ignored as WAI.
So, being a condescending dev apologist and calling people exploiters or anything else is patently ridiculous. Do you also jump into Dyson Ground threads and call people cheaters? Do you "cheat" doing that as well?
I have yet to see anything written by anyone differentiating between the ridiculously broken Dyson Ground Battlezone and the actions over which people are complaining now. Because they're the same. The only difference is one is "Working as intended," and the other somehow is not.
And your point?
Though, I do agree, there is nothing I find more frustrating than those 2-3 people you always see camping the VRex in the City, while everyone else is capping points...
And I also agree I would like to see something done about this...
Comments
Better yet. I am supposedly also part of those 250.
I heard about Japori and tried it out. ONCE on elite, alone. Then I did Cerraya a couple times, again alone. I concluded it took me more time to repeat those easier patrols several times than to finish one Argala patrol.
So I went back to the delta quadrant and grinded Argala on elite, still alone.
Can you explain to me, HarryHausen, how I exploited when all my levels (bar possibly 1 for the few runs in Tau Dewa) were gained in the Delta quadrant? You say leveling outside of DQ wasn't intended (which is a flawed supposition, but let's keep it for now). That's exactly what I did, replaying what even is part of the story content. Replaying what was told to us to replay when we were short in xp for the next story mission. And I did that all solo.
Toi'Va, Ti'vath, Toivia, Ty'Vris, Tia Vex, Toi'Virth: Add Tier 6 KDF Carrier and Raider.
Tae'Va, T'Vaya, To'Var, Tevra, T'Vira, To'Vrak: Give us Asylums for Romulans.
Don't make ARC mandatory! Keep it optional only!
Exactly what was the exploit then? Since I can do the exact same thing I did in tau dewa patrols anywhere else? Did they give more xp than other mobs, if so, how was I to know what was normal, and what was not? Was putting patrols on elite difficulty an exploit? If so, why can this still be done? Were the mobs lvl 50? If so, why are battlezone mobs still lvl 50 and why is me joining those not an exploit today?
sig
http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/5451/om71.jpg
It is a peculiar phenomenon that we can imagine events that defy the laws of the universe.
As has been explained, they were apparently providing more XP on elite than intended... Whether you were there benefiting from this knowingly or not, does not change the fact they were providing an unintended benefit and points were removed accordingly...
And to which battlezone are you referring? Dyson? If so, you are scaled back to level 50 when you enter, you were not in Tau Dewa and the fact you're asking this also suggests you were well aware they were not scaling there, which is the crux of the problem...
Just accept you were caught with your hand in the cookie-jar and claiming innocence does not change this fact...
A or B... hmmm ... let me think...
I could flip a coin
Thats about the same method used to decide if this was an exploit or not.
The same method to determine if a player belongs to the people which used the so called "exploit" (which was a permitted gameplay element for many years).
Rofl, some people here arguement that Cryptic has the right to declare everything to be an exploit if they want.
Well... thats an interesting thought actually.
What if Cryptic decides that using Zen is an exploit? (based on some people comments they are clearly allowed to do that)
What if Cryptic decides to remove all your Zen?
Cryptic devs... could you please check if Zen could be used to gain any advantages and can be used level up faster than originally intended by your statistics? Can you please do that for us now and tell us if its an exploit?
We would like to know that before getting called exploiters.
Fact is nobody knew that playing japori is an exploit. Period!
Lets apply basic logic on this matter...
Logical approach no1:
Problems were reported to Cryptic by the players -> Cryptic ignored these reports completely -> players had no other choice to think/assume/believe that the reported stuff is fully intentional since Cryptic saw absolutely no reason to apply any fixes or release information about problems in these areas.
Logical approach no2:
Players used to level up from rank 1 to rank 50 within just a few days prior Delta Rising (it took me 4 days on my latest created char). The player had no reason to assume that all of a sudden the same amount of progress is considered an exploit after the release of Delta Rising. Fact is that prior Delta rising there were story mission rewarding 4000-6000 skill points for less than 10mins gameplay. Rewards in Japori certainly were higher... but not much higher actually.
Fact also is that the rewards in Japori and other patrol missions always have been that high. A fact that the developers of this game have accepted to be normal condition over years.
So once again no reason for the players to believe or expect an exploit there.
Its not just about undoing the deduction. If XP boosterpack buyers would have known that within a week the XP gain would be nerfed, they would maybe not have purchased the pack in the first place.
The only right thing here is give the cash back spend for the booster packs.
Caught for a crime I didn't know was a crime. A crime that had no documentation anywhere explaining it was a crime. Good one.
How was I supposed to know they gave out 'too much xp'. I didn't bother doing any elites in DR. You know why? Because everytime they introduce new npc types, they have more base hp than old content. Just compare klingon ships against tholian ships. I was under the assumption this was the case again. Dr introduced new npcs, so they should be a bit tougher. I opted to spend a night farming easier enemies. Since I did 20k+dps at the time I opted to do it on elite for the extra drops and xp.
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It is a peculiar phenomenon that we can imagine events that defy the laws of the universe.
You exploited because you went to Tau Dewa, admittedly *knowing*, upfront, the NPC's were fighting at lower levels than intended there. You were informed about the imbalanced situation in that system; moreover, you went there for the *exact* purpose of taking advantage of the situation. Sorry, but I would have taken your points too.
More XP then intended by who? On heinsight more XP then expected by Cryptic. Absolutely not more then I expected or the players that were leveling at that time.
Read my post above. It's normal to expect easier enemies in older content compared to new content. Also I didn't know they weren't scaling properly. I wasn't informed about the "inbalanced situation.' It was logical to expect older content to be easier, because older content ALWAYS has been easier.
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It is a peculiar phenomenon that we can imagine events that defy the laws of the universe.
Since they just removed another thread talking about lawsuits and all (moved to a hidden location?), I think they probably don't want us to talk legalese. So, let's not.
Sorry, but ignorance is no defence... Cry foul that you did not know all you want... You went there with the express purpose of gaining more XP than you could elsewhere...
Failing to realise this was an exploit does not change the fact you utilised it, and are now complaining you were caught and punished...
Being pulled over for speeding and then telling the officer 'I'm sorry, I didn't know I was speeding, I missed the speed sign..' will not get you out of the speeding ticket as you have done wrong...
Ignorance is no defence...
Easier enemies which were providing just as much XP as their 60 counterparts... Alarm bells should have rung here...
Again, even if you did not know, it does not change the situation...
You seem to play just a few days. The mentioned situation fighting at lower level against higher leveled enemies (by matching the squad lead) is a mechanism already in game for years. Why else would the matching level with squadleader exist in the first place.
And because your level is lower then the level of the enemy you score more points. And if the difficulty setting is Elite you even get more points logicaly.
So no, the speed of leveling seemed completely fine to me, as the speed of leveling was similar too what I was used to see for years already.
The situation now is that teaming now makes players level slower. And teaming while on elite even slows down the leveling process even more then doing the same instance solo on difficulty setting normal.
So basicaly Cryptic now is discouraging team play, or playing on higher difficulty, if people want to level their toon. I am now playing solo much more because thats more efficient.
Secondly, there's no exploit if there was no malice. I had no intention of abusing a bug or a glitch to. Until they posted about it, there was no indication of a bug.
Thirdly, you can't expect everyone to keep every number, every value every design philosophy of game developers in mind when they play a game to entertain themselves.
And finally. At level 50 there were also huge differences in npc difficulty, farming lvl 50 klingons is a lot faster than farming tholians. And to the best of my knowledge they gave just as much xp and loot as the tholians.
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It is a peculiar phenomenon that we can imagine events that defy the laws of the universe.
From some dev blog a month ago:
Upping your difficulty in the game has always come with increased rewards in terms of XP and Expertise, as well as increased drop rates on items youll enjoy a much better chance of rare (blue) and very rare (purple) gear items. With Delta Rising and the new changes to the difficulty slider, we will be increasing these even more, giving you even greater chances at higher quality loot drops than before.
I guess it's our fault for not realizing they didn't actually mean to increase the rewards.
I have had one... ONE blue drop during solo misisons....
Blues and purples in team patrols, but the rewards for solo seem lacking.
Not entirely.
In Law, there's the nulla poena sine lege certa principle (= no punisment without a clearly defined law [to fracture]). Since there was no 'lex certa' here, the only pertinent question remaining is whether or not people could/should have known that NPC's, 5x as hard to kill on Elite, paying out a likewise 5x amount of XP, was an exploit.
Many people, like yours truly, didn't know; guilli88, however, admitted to knowing *upfront* that something exploitative was up in Tau Dewa. And for that I have little sympathy.
Wrong... Wrong... Wrong... Just... Wrong...
An exploit, is an exploit, is an exploit... Malice, intent, knowledge or ignorance... None of this changes the fact the mechanics were not intended...
And yes, I can use real-world analogies if I feel... I have also provided in-game (other games admittedly) examples - Elder Scrolls Auction House Exploitation and Fallen Earth Instance Exploitation (which I was even man enough to admit I was punished for)...
What have you provided to support your case, childish 'it's not fair' whining... You have yet to actually demonstrate a single point as to why you did nothing wrong...
Again, I remind you ignorance is no defence... You still benefited from unintended mechanics, as a result, Spec Points were deducted...
Just accept you did wrong, even if you do so in blissful ignorance, and move on...
Reading devblogs is nor a requirement to be allowed to play the game.
Edit:
@imruined
I am done debating with you. You are incapable of seeing points from different perspectives. You are incapable of defending your arguments fully and chose to lower yourself to childish insulting.
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It is a peculiar phenomenon that we can imagine events that defy the laws of the universe.
is your ignorance not a defen>S<e either?
some sad desperate forum troll stating his opinionated wrong views.
you surely didnt wrong since you are some slow casual baddie that
loves to beg for attention on forums all the time.
you never made a point, this time is no exception.
No clearly defined law, yes, but only in relation to whether the unintended mechanics were known or not... This still does not change that benefit was gleaned and this is less about punishment in the case of exploits as it is about general fairness to the rest of the player-base...
The people who took advantage of this exploit, knowingly or otherwise, have gained an unintended advantage over their peers who did not... This was the driving force behind the removal of the points...
The use of an exploit is clearly wrong... Again, whether someone did so with intent or not, does not matter, they've still received an unintended benefit from the utilisation of unintended mechanics...
There is no prove there was an exploit. Only cryptic is, on heinsight calling what happend, exploiting. If that would hold as truth (but luckely it does not), every one can call you an exploiter for any reason especcialy when you are doing something others do not expect and punisch you. I am glad I live in a country where such a thing is called BS.
You are now showing who is truly ignorant here... I'm Australian, defen>c<e is the traditional English spelling, not the Americanised spelling of the word...
It's the same how American English supplants many S's with Z's (pronounced 'zed' btw)...
Next time, try harder troll...
I'm sorry if you have nothing more to support your argument than 'it's not fair', but I can't help what is the truth here...
I have also countered every one of your claims with reason and examples or analogies, perhaps if you had done the same, you'd not come off as a child whining when being caught red handed that 'it's not fair'...
I'm not intentionally being insulting, I'm just not mincing words on this and saying exactly how I see the situation...
Sorry, but this was the entire reason people flocked to these patrols... They were too easy and many have openly said they dabbled, until they realised it was indeed too easy and stopped out of concern it was an exploit...
Wether defined in black and white or not, the mechanics were unintended, hence, an exploit...
youre a australian? who gives a damn.
so you are that australian troll that never made a point.
get that fence defenced, lol.
stupid people acting stupid, too funny.
also my dictionary tells another story, uneducated fool.
I have seen no one in game stopping with leveling for the reason you give. On the contrary I saw a lot of people happely playing and leveling. Untill Cryptic dropped their bomb patch.
Ummm, what? Apparently I'm the stupid one, for not being able to decipher such unintelligible drivel as this...
You're a shining example of the decay of Western education... Bravo to you sir...
Nothing he did is any more exploitative than Dyson Ground missions (less so, IMO, since it didn't include copious amounts of dilithium), and those get reported, complained about, and then Dev-ignored as WAI.
So, being a condescending dev apologist and calling people exploiters or anything else is patently ridiculous. Do you also jump into Dyson Ground threads and call people cheaters? Do you "cheat" doing that as well?
I have yet to see anything written by anyone differentiating between the ridiculously broken Dyson Ground Battlezone and the actions over which people are complaining now. Because they're the same. The only difference is one is "Working as intended," and the other somehow is not.
So, you didn't see it... Does not change the fact people have openly stated on these forums that they suspected the issue in question was an exploit...
youre the stupid one for being the WAY OBVIOUS TROLL for weeks on this forum now.
being obvious isnt a feat good trolls have.
edit: did you defence that fence yet?
Just have to make a specific point of this... This is a term that gets thrown around so readily on these forums it has lost all true meaning and is about as upsetting as being called a doody-head by an infant...
People really need to learn the difference between pragmatism and being a a true apologist...
And your point?
Though, I do agree, there is nothing I find more frustrating than those 2-3 people you always see camping the VRex in the City, while everyone else is capping points...
And I also agree I would like to see something done about this...