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Faeht vs Aelah

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  • darkjeffdarkjeff Member Posts: 2,590 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Faeht i worse than my Vet ship, it lacks 10 % escrot bonus defence like all warbirds but Daeinos. Only good thing about it is turn and EBC.
    Bad eng stations, bad hull, bad shields and since intel deastealth you it is useless.

    Leveled it only for a trait to use on mah T5U.

    I'm flying the Faeht exactly like my Vet ship. AP Beamboat.

    Now I'm using Surgical Strike x2 instead of FAW x2, and sticking with double APB (since it has a 15s duplicate cooldown like SS), switching out APO3 with an EMP probe. Also picked up a Grav Well due to the extra BOff station.

    Seems to work as good, if not better than the Vet ship. I'm thinking that may be because Surgical Strike's crit hit buff goes really well with AP weapons.
  • nimbullnimbull Member Posts: 1,564 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    I'm seriously stuck between these two, and I can see pros and cons to both, but I'm deposit considering making the Faeht my first purchase instead of the Aelahl as I've been planning. In a way, I'm looking forward to adjusting my play style to the Faeht, even though the Aelahl would be much easier to start with..

    For anyone flying a Faeht, what would you think of having two DHC, one DC, and a torp fore, with two turrets and a torp or mine aft, if not three turrets? I'm almost exclusively PVE, the only PVP I do is against friends. *The reason for the combination of DHC/DC is just for aesthetics; I hate having every main weapon fire endlessly from the same spots. I'm not playing for insane dps, or trying to have the game's most powerful ship.

    Right now I'm running all DHC's on the front and all Turrets in the back. Romulan plasma CrtD's.
    Green people don't have to be.... little.
  • neomodiousneomodious Member Posts: 428 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    question about the plasma lance. Can it be used while cloaked?
  • commanderkorcommanderkor Member Posts: 147 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Hopefully the Fleet Aelah will fix that problem...

    sadly i'm used to being disappointed so in keeping with the SOP of gimping the damage of Romulan battlecruisers(not scimitar) they will more then likely give me the thumb to the eye and add a third science console.:D
  • rsoblivionrsoblivion Member Posts: 809 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    TBH I found the Aelah to be a tanking beast. On Elite difficulty with 2 ship mastery's and a Valdore console, a few Rommy Plasma beams with an Experimental in there, it's just ripping through the enemies like butter but having 100% shields and hull the entire time.

    Only things that breach the shields so far have been Borg with their spike damage.

    Haven't got my head around the Faeht yet, need to retool my BoFF's and DoFF's to get that one running right.
    Chris Robert's on SC:
    "You don't have to do something again and again and again repetitive that doesn't have much challange, that's just a general good gameplay thing."
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    sadly i'm used to being disappointed so in keeping with the SOP of gimping the damage of Romulan battlecruisers(not scimitar) they will more then likely give me the thumb to the eye and add a third science console.:D

    There is sense to how Cryptic assigns the extra consoles. They generally go to where the strengths are of a ship's BOFF station alignment. The Aelahl has heavy ENG, above average TAC, and average SCI skill slots. The Fleet Aelahl would get +1 TAC Console. Why?

    5 ENG already covered as an ENG heavy ship.

    It has a LtCdr TAC station with only a Lt SCI station.

    The Fleet Aehlal should really be a good powerhouse of a Battlecruiser / Warbird.

    As far as the choice of Aehlal or Faeht?
    - The Faeht is essentially a meaner T'Varo but slightly squishier. It turns better, it has faster impulse mods.
    - The Aehlal is a complete, traditional Battlecruiser, with good handling, something that has been asked for around these boards. Looking at the stats alone, the Aehlal fits the bill perfectly.

    I also want to stress something about the Faeht for those that have never flown a KDF BOP or T'Varo. Looking at the stats, the Faeht looks gloriously powerful. Enhanced Battle Cloak, too? Where do I sign up? Keep in mind these adverse things about these kind of ships:
    - Squishy hull.
    - These KDF BOPs, Raiders, T'Varo, and now Faeht are hit and run ships. Even before DR, these ships had little staying power to trade shots. Yes, I'm including PVE, here. If you were the kind of guy that your idea of doing good DPS tactics is to park in front of an NPC and spam SPACE, these ships are too frail for that job. Any other ship, even Escorts, are superior to "park & spam." Because of the need to hit & run to survive and apply damage, your DPS numbers are not going to be high compared to other ship types. You are using time to break off, repair, buff, and come in on another strike. Time that other ships would just park and keep shooting. The NPCs now hit harder, so the fragility of these kind of ships is more pronounced now more than ever.
    - Do not spam your attacks while Enhanced Battle Cloak is up. That means you're constantly showing yourself with zero shields and exposed hull. When you spam your torps, especially Rom Hyper-Plasma Torps, the NPC(s) will target you and get to your bare hull. You'll die very quickly like this if you're not careful.

    If you do not mind the idea of moving around a lot with slashing strikes and moving to safety to prepare another run, then ships like the ones I mentioned will suit you. If you like to "park & spam" SPACE, you'll die quickly, frequently in these kind of ships.

    It's exactly what happened with the Breen Raider after last year's Winter Event. There were many of these ships flying around. But after a while, nobody flew them anymore. Why? They're too fragile, despite the Breen Raider being a very powerful and fast "Raider."
    XzRTofz.gif
  • alopenalopen Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    I'm seriously stuck between these two, and I can see pros and cons to both, but I'm deposit considering making the Faeht my first purchase instead of the Aelahl as I've been planning. In a way, I'm looking forward to adjusting my play style to the Faeht, even though the Aelahl would be much easier to start with..

    For anyone flying a Faeht, what would you think of having two DHC, one DC, and a torp fore, with two turrets and a torp or mine aft, if not three turrets? I'm almost exclusively PVE, the only PVP I do is against friends. *The reason for the combination of DHC/DC is just for aesthetics; I hate having every main weapon fire endlessly from the same spots. I'm not playing for insane dps, or trying to have the game's most powerful ship.

    For RP purposes, I have use a DCs in conjunction with DHCs for looks and it probably is not min/maxed out but in PvE you should be ok. However, ditch the torp. You have 5 Tac consoles. 5 tac consoles!!!! BO3 is hitting for at least 15-25K even without tac buffs. Grab a beam bank and ditch the torp. Use the plasma lance console then debuff the tgts defense then nail em with BO3 and your DHCs (in your case 2DHCs +1DCs). Stack the EMP probe + Ionic field + tb + GW and you can just park your ship on a shield facing and unload at will. He won't be able to fight back at all and his defense and resists will be neutered. You'll tear the NPC a new one. I haven't taken NPCs down faster except for maybe with a scimi.

    And yeah Warmaker is spot on, think its a bop and you'll do fine.
  • wingsoftartaruswingsoftartarus Member Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Yeah...I'll worry about adapting to the Faeht later. I'll go with my gut and get the Aelahl first. As for laying her out a certain way, basic direction is all I'm looking for - like I said, I'm not looking for uber-DPS or an obliteration-embodied Alpha strike.

    It's almost like roleplay for me, with STO being the continuation of fanfic characters - I want the ship "realistically" set up, plus I just like torpedoes. My Rom won't even be able to use the Aelahl upon purchase; she's level 43, working toward her ship, which I expect to have in use within the next 24 to 36 hours depending on life's unpredictable happenings. I'll probably set her up like a beefier version of the Ar'kif I had a few levels back and still use just for fun.
  • commanderkorcommanderkor Member Posts: 147 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    There is sense to how Cryptic assigns the extra consoles. They generally go to where the strengths are of a ship's BOFF station alignment. The Aelahl has heavy ENG, above average TAC, and average SCI skill slots. The Fleet Aelahl would get +1 TAC Console. Why?

    5 ENG already covered as an ENG heavy ship.

    It has a LtCdr TAC station with only a Lt SCI station.

    The Fleet Aehlal should really be a good powerhouse of a Battlecruiser / Warbird.

    As far as the choice of Aehlal or Faeht?
    - The Faeht is essentially a meaner T'Varo but slightly squishier. It turns better, it has faster impulse mods.
    - The Aehlal is a complete, traditional Battlecruiser, with good handling, something that has been asked for around these boards. Looking at the stats alone, the Aehlal fits the bill perfectly.

    I also want to stress something about the Faeht for those that have never flown a KDF BOP or T'Varo. Looking at the stats, the Faeht looks gloriously powerful. Enhanced Battle Cloak, too? Where do I sign up? Keep in mind these adverse things about these kind of ships:
    - Squishy hull.
    - These KDF BOPs, Raiders, T'Varo, and now Faeht are hit and run ships. Even before DR, these ships had little staying power to trade shots. Yes, I'm including PVE, here. If you were the kind of guy that your idea of doing good DPS tactics is to park in front of an NPC and spam SPACE, these ships are too frail for that job. Any other ship, even Escorts, are superior to "park & spam." Because of the need to hit & run to survive and apply damage, your DPS numbers are not going to be high compared to other ship types. You are using time to break off, repair, buff, and come in on another strike. Time that other ships would just park and keep shooting. The NPCs now hit harder, so the fragility of these kind of ships is more pronounced now more than ever.
    - Do not spam your attacks while Enhanced Battle Cloak is up. That means you're constantly showing yourself with zero shields and exposed hull. When you spam your torps, especially Rom Hyper-Plasma Torps, the NPC(s) will target you and get to your bare hull. You'll die very quickly like this if you're not careful.

    If you do not mind the idea of moving around a lot with slashing strikes and moving to safety to prepare another run, then ships like the ones I mentioned will suit you. If you like to "park & spam" SPACE, you'll die quickly, frequently in these kind of ships.

    It's exactly what happened with the Breen Raider after last year's Winter Event. There were many of these ships flying around. But after a while, nobody flew them anymore. Why? They're too fragile, despite the Breen Raider being a very powerful and fast "Raider."

    I'm really hoping you're right cuz a 4 tac fleet version would be awesome actually put some "battle" in its name. Question for some of you guys that have flown the Aelah, have you found beams or cannons to be more effective with this ship. With the better turn radius over the DD it seems almost a shame to waste it as a traditional broadside cruiser. So whats the verdict, beam arrays, Dual beam banks, or cannon build? So far sticking cannons on it along with some fleet RCS modules has been decent, anybody have anything they feel has been more effective?
  • wingsoftartaruswingsoftartarus Member Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    I'm really hoping you're right cuz a 4 tac fleet version would be awesome actually put some "battle" in its name. Question for some of you guys that have flown the Aelah, have you found beams or cannons to be more effective with this ship. With the better turn radius over the DD it seems almost a shame to waste it as a traditional broadside cruiser. So whats the verdict, beam arrays, Dual beam banks, or cannon build? So far sticking cannons on it along with some fleet RCS modules has been decent, anybody have anything they feel has been more effective?

    I've been wondering this, myself.
  • chrisbrown12009chrisbrown12009 Member Posts: 790 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    While ive spent most my time in the uber tvaro, i have tried out our warbird "battle crusier..." Its tanky as hell, thats for sure. its also can have more that enough turn for cannons. i have mine turning in the 35+ Degrees per sec. it just doesnt punch hard enough to kill in a single pass....at least so far, mine hasnt. THAT is the biggest problem to me. i think Beams on a pressure set up could maintain SUSTAINED dmg. bust dmg on this ship doesnt seem like the way to go.
  • commanderkorcommanderkor Member Posts: 147 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    While ive spent most my time in the uber tvaro, i have tried out our warbird "battle crusier..." Its tanky as hell, thats for sure. its also can have more that enough turn for cannons. i have mine turning in the 35+ Degrees per sec. it just doesnt punch hard enough to kill in a single pass....at least so far, mine hasnt. THAT is the biggest problem to me. i think Beams on a pressure set up could maintain SUSTAINED dmg. bust dmg on this ship doesnt seem like the way to go.

    Yea thats interesting to me, if there was ever a romulan battle cruiser that screams forward facing weapons it is this one, even down to the placement of the weapon hardpoints. I used beam arrays on it once and it just looked terrible. Problem is with delta rising and the vastly increased hitpoints (at least on advanced setting, have not tried normal since i need the XP for leveling) the fights more often then not turn into dog fights which is kinda cool but also very annoying considering this means that while you are trying to setup another attack run only thing shooting is your turrets. Take into account how the AI basically just flies at you and tries to park on top of you. This just screams beam array build. Maybe I will feel differently when fleet version comes out but it seems burst damage is a bit more difficult to manage in delta rising. Plus just about everyone enjoys trapping me in a tractor beam! lol (yes I know there are counters to this and I use them but still annoying) But to be honest I enjoy the challenge and not vaping everything in front of me in one pass then on to the next mission like before lol.
  • darkjeffdarkjeff Member Posts: 2,590 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    neomodious wrote: »
    question about the plasma lance. Can it be used while cloaked?

    It's been a busy weekend, finally had the chance to test it.

    Nope, can't be used while cloaked.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    It's a directed energy attack and follows those rules.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • pyrogxmk3pyrogxmk3 Member Posts: 206 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    It's also unavailable quite often even after cooldown. Last night I realized that I could not fire it at a ship unless I was currently gathering intel on it. Say, for example, because I targetted something else. Sensor analysis this is not.

    The damn thing also was greyed out during the "immunity" phase, so the best use I've found for it is an instant engi-crash during initial alpha strikes.

    I'd been hoping to use it to refresh vulnerability when my own abilities are ready but the thing's still not re-gathered, but turns out that's not possible.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    I'm not sure if the lance requires you to use intel gathering, or if it's just a matter of a small target arc.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • greyhame3greyhame3 Member Posts: 914 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    After using the Aelah for a bit on my engineer, I quite enjoy it. It can take a lot of damage, though obviously not as good at dealing it out but I don't find a huge problem killing things (it just take a while, but I also don't have all MX XII gear either). But for an engineer it's a good ship for those who want something that can turn faster than a D'Deridex.
  • alopenalopen Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Yea thats interesting to me, if there was ever a romulan battle cruiser that screams forward facing weapons it is this one, even down to the placement of the weapon hardpoints. I used beam arrays on it once and it just looked terrible. Problem is with delta rising and the vastly increased hitpoints (at least on advanced setting, have not tried normal since i need the XP for leveling) the fights more often then not turn into dog fights which is kinda cool but also very annoying considering this means that while you are trying to setup another attack run only thing shooting is your turrets. Take into account how the AI basically just flies at you and tries to park on top of you. This just screams beam array build. Maybe I will feel differently when fleet version comes out but it seems burst damage is a bit more difficult to manage in delta rising. Plus just about everyone enjoys trapping me in a tractor beam! lol (yes I know there are counters to this and I use them but still annoying) But to be honest I enjoy the challenge and not vaping everything in front of me in one pass then on to the next mission like before lol.

    Uhm, I hate to be that guy that screams ltp at you but you should have zero problems moving a BC around to lay waste to tgts. I have gotten the turn on this thing to 40 on one toon and 32-35 on another. Either way, you just have ot use the old KDF sliding tricks to keep your nose on the tgt. Don't forget to use consoles/intel /sci powers to keep AIs in front of you. This is a surprisingly good ship. I worried about with the -40 power and no cruiser commands compared to say tien Qib but it might actually be the better ship of the two. Its one flaw is only 3 tac consoles when everything has increased HP, 4 tac consoles is a bit of a necessity nowadays.

    Perhaps the problem is the Avenger's inertia was way to good for a BC so feddies never learned how to properly turn a BC like most KDF guys know how to do. (Roms never had one before to learn on) It takes a little getting used to but this Alhael flies almost exactly like a torkaht to me. Very similar boff layout and everything.
  • royalsovereignroyalsovereign Member Posts: 1,344 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    I've had my Aelahl for a few days now and I am thoroughly enjoying it! With a fleet RCS and an Enhanced Neutronium on it, this thing dances. It feels almost as nimble as my Ar'kif. If warmaker is right (and I have no reason to doubt him on this topic) the fleet version should be a tremendous ship. This ship is the reason I went thru the last CC grind on 6 toons, and the payoff is well worth it.

    As for the looks, I was a bit concerned when the pics were leaked weeks ago - we all read the critiques. Those pics do *not* do this thing justice - it is gorgeous. From the back it looks much like the Mogai, but without the planetary-system-wide wingspan. If you are unsure, transfer a character to Redshirt and buy it there to try it out.
    "You Iconians just hung a vacancy sign on your asses and my foot's looking for a room!"
    --Red Annorax
  • royalsovereignroyalsovereign Member Posts: 1,344 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    alopen wrote: »
    It takes a little getting used to but this Alhael flies almost exactly like a torkaht to me. Very similar boff layout and everything.
    I'd often considered getting a Torkie for my KDF, but was concerned that the ENG-heavy layout would hamper a SCI captain. I might revisit that decision now - if the Torkie is like this bird, I can live with it. :)
    "You Iconians just hung a vacancy sign on your asses and my foot's looking for a room!"
    --Red Annorax
  • mrgrocer56mrgrocer56 Member Posts: 370 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Faeht was the one ship I completely discounted going into this Undiscovered Country. On a drunken whim, I threw it on a secondary main that was "scheduled for a leave of absence." Now I cannot stop playing that toon. With the right build, gear and Intel shinies....let's just say "WOW." :D:D:D
  • commanderkorcommanderkor Member Posts: 147 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    alopen wrote: »
    Uhm, I hate to be that guy that screams ltp at you but you should have zero problems moving a BC around to lay waste to tgts. I have gotten the turn on this thing to 40 on one toon and 32-35 on another. Either way, you just have ot use the old KDF sliding tricks to keep your nose on the tgt. Don't forget to use consoles/intel /sci powers to keep AIs in front of you. This is a surprisingly good ship. I worried about with the -40 power and no cruiser commands compared to say tien Qib but it might actually be the better ship of the two. Its one flaw is only 3 tac consoles when everything has increased HP, 4 tac consoles is a bit of a necessity nowadays.

    Perhaps the problem is the Avenger's inertia was way to good for a BC so feddies never learned how to properly turn a BC like most KDF guys know how to do. (Roms never had one before to learn on) It takes a little getting used to but this Alhael flies almost exactly like a torkaht to me. Very similar boff layout and everything.

    Umm dont think ltp is quite necessary:confused: I wasn't saying I was incapable of flying the ship or that I hated it, just that the builds I was using were not working so I had to experiment from what I would normally use on romulan battle cruisers. In the end I did figure out what I needed to do to keep things in my forward arc. I was mostly commenting on the delta Q races AI being a bit better then what we have experienced so far and that my standard decloak and make everything in front of me turn into explosions is not going to fly with the new content so my tactics would have to change. Now after tweaking a few things I love the ship and actually have started flying it more over the Faeht.
  • reximuzreximuz Member Posts: 1,172 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    I'm enjoying both, but the Faeht will likely stay my main ship. I am working on getting to T5 Aelah, but have been slowed as I have the loadouts bug, so I have to refix stuff every session I want to play it in.
  • darkjeffdarkjeff Member Posts: 2,590 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    I'm not sure if the lance requires you to use intel gathering, or if it's just a matter of a small target arc.

    It does not require it.

    I've fired it plenty of times on fresh targets, then hit them with a debuff immediately afterwards.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,236 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    darkjeff wrote: »
    It does not require it.

    I've fired it plenty of times on fresh targets, then hit them with a debuff immediately afterwards.
    Yeah I just tried it again... I guess it only has a 45 arc.
    -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
    My character Tsin'xing
    Costume_marhawkman_Tsin%27xing_CC_Comic_Page_Blue_488916968.jpg
  • azmodeasazmodeas Member Posts: 132 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    been flying both ships . i've found both to be quite fun. the Aelah is everything you'd wanted from the D'Deridex that never materialized. tough fast nimble ship. Reminds me alot more of the kdf torkat battle cruiser. the Faeht is a nice nimble ship and while it has that enhanced battle cloak. it's just a let down that gather intel won't work while under cloak. given the stealthy nature of Romulans and intel gathering abilites you'd think that the gather intel mechanics would better synergize with cloaking. At least intel team gives that faux cloak that stacks with gather intel so it's not a total write off. Just a new learning curve with it.

    As for which one is better ? For me I feel the Jury is still out. Both serve a nice purpose and both are fun. I do find myself slightly leaning toward the faeht as that ship continues to be suprising.
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    After toying with the Aelahl's console, I've come to the conclusion that it desperately needs to go on a ship with good SCI capability, SCI consoles. If any SCI ship was to be able to use it? Wow...
    XzRTofz.gif
  • certiorari2012certiorari2012 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    I really want to use the Aelahl but haven't found a single, solid build yet. Anyone have something solid?
  • royalsovereignroyalsovereign Member Posts: 1,344 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    After toying with the Aelahl's console, I've come to the conclusion that it desperately needs to go on a ship with good SCI capability, SCI consoles. If any SCI ship was to be able to use it? Wow...
    Might get a bit too OP in my book. But yeah, my main Rom is a Sci captain and only having a Lt. Sci Boff is the only thing I don't like about the Aelahl, so for me having the console slightly makes up for not having Grav Well available.

    I really want to use the Aelahl but haven't found a single, solid build yet. Anyone have something solid?
    Not sure I'd ever consider any of my builds "solid" though I am pretty happy with mine so far. As someone pointed out, the Fleet Tor'Kaht is a fairly close match, if you use the Uni slot for a second Tac boff (and assuming you used the Uni on the Tork for Sci) then the only difference is the Tork has one more tac console. So you might start with finding some good Tor'kaht builds and working from there...
    "You Iconians just hung a vacancy sign on your asses and my foot's looking for a room!"
    --Red Annorax
  • certiorari2012certiorari2012 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Might get a bit too OP in my book. But yeah, my main Rom is a Sci captain and only having a Lt. Sci Boff is the only thing I don't like about the Aelahl, so for me having the console slightly makes up for not having Grav Well available.



    Not sure I'd ever consider any of my builds "solid" though I am pretty happy with mine so far. As someone pointed out, the Fleet Tor'Kaht is a fairly close match, if you use the Uni slot for a second Tac boff (and assuming you used the Uni on the Tork for Sci) then the only difference is the Tork has one more tac console. So you might start with finding some good Tor'kaht builds and working from there...

    That has been my means of thinking as well. The hybrid slot doesn't seem to allow for a massive amount of creativity.
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