Newer players are supposed to start with Normal queues first. That's the thinking anyway.
Good luck to the new players attempting to get the gear to go to Advanced difficulty. Oh wait, that's right. They can't because in order to get the gear they have to play advanced.
Oh, if only Cryptics' logic worked, because then that would be the intended outcome.
it's not some impossible magic trick to get your dps above 10k. anyone can do it in a short amount of time. it's mostly about learning what to do rather then spending 100 bucks to do it.
and you can get tons of gear from the rep systems that don't require advanced queues.
Newer players are supposed to start with Normal queues first. That's the thinking anyway.
The problem with that is they can't get mats (borg neural processor, ect) for decent rep gear outside of the very rare chance of getting a drop in the rep reward boxes.
Advanced is supposed to be as difficult as old Elite or a tad more difficult. If Advanced is halfway between old Elite and new Elite in difficulty, then it is messed up and needs to be fixed ASAP. It wouldn't be a new Season or Expansion, if something wasn't completely screwed up at launch.
it's not some impossible magic trick to get your dps above 10k. anyone can do it in a short amount of time. it's mostly about learning what to do rather then spending 100 bucks to do it.
and you can get tons of gear from the rep systems that don't require advanced queues.
If you think a 10k boat is going to clear a STF filled with 800k spheres trying to climb up your TRIBBLE, you havent been STFing today.
Advanced is supposed to be as difficult as old Elite or a tad more difficult. If Advanced is halfway between old Elite and new Elite in difficulty, then it is messed up and needs to be fixed ASAP. It wouldn't be a new Season or Expansion, if something wasn't completely screwed up at launch.
Oh, it's even better. Advanced is actually about 50% harder than old Elite, and new Elite is only 10% harder than Advanced. >.<
Not to mention in the Advanced STFs, all the mobs had their damage and HP multiplied by 5.
If you think a 10k boat is going to clear a STF filled with 800k spheres trying to climb up your TRIBBLE, you havent been STFing today.
i think i have. not everyone needs to do 25k in an astf.
and the goal here is to get people off their 2-3k ships and pretending that they are kings of the hill because they can take out a cube in a missions with their low dps. it's not challenging to get your dps up to 10k, 15k, and so on. people need to stop thinking just because they can autofire something to death in a regular mission with their rainbow boats they're a good player.
i think i have. not everyone needs to do 25k in an astf.
and the goal here is to get people off their 2-3k ships and pretending that they are kings of the hill because they can take out a cube in a missions with their low dps. it's not challenging to get your dps up to 10k, 15k, and so on. people need to stop thinking just because they can autofire something to death in a regular mission with their rainbow boats they're a good player.
You seem to forget that we speak of the rainbow boats here. I'm talking newbies with no funds to be able to get that kind of DPS. Tell me it's easy to get 15k DPS while surviving a metric ton of incoming damage while using mk xii blue exchange gear and a mirror/basic zen ship.
All you need to do to test this is unequip all your rep gear, all your rep passives and get out of your shiny super-ship. Guaranteed it won't work for adv.
You seem to forget that we speak of the rainbow boats here. I'm talking newbies with no funds to be able to get that kind of DPS. Tell me it's easy to get 15k DPS while surviving a metric ton of incoming damage while using mk xii blue exchange gear and a mirror/basic zen ship.
All you need to do to test this is unequip all your rep gear, all your rep passives and get out of your shiny super-ship. Guaranteed it won't work for adv.
it doesn't require funds. you don't need to tons of money to make a good ship. you can buy fleet mods with ingame currency, and so on. you can get doffs just by running the missions.
you seem to want to believe that a newb should be able to do an astf in a week. that's not the case. but if you take some time you do stfs and other rep missions and build a boat that can easily do advanced queues without major issues.
but as usual, everyone's comments are about immediate gratification and making it happen now. you didn't get to 50 in 1 day, you shouldn't expect to be able to do the advanced and elite queues in 1 day of reaching 50 either. you build toward it.
you can still get an upgrade token from the c-store by not paying anything other than refined dilithium converted into zen. The same goes for one of the new ships.
You can also get starship traits through the specialization system. This expansion is redefining the entire game in a way we haven't seen before. it'll just take time to get used to the changes.
Many of us have paid over $100 for the Delta Pack, and as you can see on the forums, our first experiences with our new tier 6 ships, and tier 5 upgrades is failure after failure. Even in regular fleet alerts! Please do go ahead and make elite truly elite, but let those of us who were happy playing STO up to now have a decent shot at advanced content just like we did until yesterday with elite content.
Well ... , I've read about 5 pages of this thread and have seen it deteriorate into the (by now) usual accusations of noob VS pro VS elitist -- sooo ... I'll propose a question :
Is it possible that due to the hill HP that the DR ships gain through leveling -- well is it possible that the DR ships should have come with a warning "do not use before hitting Lvl 60" ?
I'm asking this not simply because that alone is the question -- I'm asking because if we take a look at the LOR ship pack which was just as expensive -- nothing in that had you use those ships and come out with a feeling of ... dare I say suckage ?
You bought those ships , you equipped them and you went off to have a good time .
In contrast , ppl purchased the DR ships , equipped them and failed STF's , fleet actions , fleet alerts etc .
^^^ and in this ... , the player experience is vastly different .
it doesn't require funds. you don't need to tons of money to make a good ship. you can buy fleet mods with ingame currency, and so on. you can get doffs just by running the missions.
you seem to want to believe that a newb should be able to do an astf in a week. that's not the case. but if you take some time you do stfs and other rep missions and build a boat that can easily do advanced queues without major issues.
but as usual, everyone's comments are about immediate gratification and making it happen now. you didn't get to 50 in 1 day, you shouldn't expect to be able to do the advanced and elite queues in 1 day of reaching 50 either. you build toward it.
Still doesn't change the fact that newbies can't get the rep gear until they complete Advanced.
10k dps is not even close to enough to complete the advanced stf's you need about twice that from each person to complete it.
I did a cure where we averaged 9k per person and we did't even come close to completing it before the kang was killed. The reason being the bop's and spheres have over 600k hull and also tons of shielding (half the dps was to shields half to hull unlike the old estf where it was 20% to shields 80% to hulls)
Still doesn't change the fact that newbies can't get the rep gear until they complete Advanced.
you do get that you can craft mk 14 epic gear without ever needing to have done a rep? thanks to crafting rep gear isn't the only thing that matters in the game any more. you can take any gear and make it into something fantastic.
10k dps is not even close to enough to complete the advanced stf's you need about twice that from each person to complete it.
I did a cure where we averaged 9k per person and we did't even come close to completing it before the kang was killed. The reason being the bop's and spheres have over 600k hull and also tons of shielding (half the dps was to shields half to hull unlike the old estf where it was 20% to shields 80% to hulls)
Thank you for that. 9k DPS is not too shabby to expect from each person, yet they still failed easily. This is clearly a problem for new players.
you do get that you can craft mk 14 epic gear without ever needing to have done a rep? thanks to crafting rep gear isn't the only thing that matters in the game any more. you can take any gear and make it into something fantastic.
Cause making MKXIV gear doesn't cost around 60k dilithium per weapon?
You are asking a newbie who can't even play an advanced STF to shell out 480k dilithium for a set of weapons they can compete with?
If you are truly so elite, you'll be in the elite queues and not care about what happens in advanced.
But if you're just one of those sad people who aren't happy until they see someone get what they enjoy taken away from them...that's not the definition of elite.
So sad that people actually derive a sense of self-worth based off of pixels...
I TOTALLY AGREE. You have to be just a flat out loserboy to get off on people being mad that the tier UNDER the hardest is ridiculously hard.
No one that is complaining about advanced ques is doing it because they suck or want to use an easy build. Advanced ques are NOT the hardest difficultly. The fact that they are this "hard" is an error on the devs not something that people should have to deal with.
Its actually very simple. Normal should be easy, advanced should be a little harder, and elite should be super hard. That is NOT what we have now.
Cause making MKXIV gear doesn't cost around 60k dilithium per weapon?
You are asking a newbie who can't even play an advanced STF to shell out 480k dilithium for a set of weapons they can compete with?
This is kind of a ludicrious argument.
i'm guessing you haven't done any crafting either? they don't cost 60k each. if you craft as you level to 50 you can make your own superior upgrade and massively cut into the dil cost.
your whole debate is coming down to 'newbs won't do this' when what you really mean is you won't do it.
you can still get an upgrade token from the c-store by not paying anything other than refined dilithium converted into zen. The same goes for one of the new ships.
You can also get starship traits through the specialization system. This expansion is redefining the entire game in a way we haven't seen before. it'll just take time to get used to the changes.
Try to upgrade all of your favorite Ships & all of your Mk XII Gear with refined Dil and we'll talk again ... I doubt I'll live to see this day, though ...
Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
I like the changes too. The rewards nerf sinks but there's other ways to get dil. The only real thing worth getting are the marks. Trade them and contraband and you have your 8000 daily. Marks need to be raised but other than that it's nice to pug with like minded gamers
What? Its easy as heck to get marks in places besides the pve ques. The main things people are looking to get in an advanced que are the R&D mat packs. Having advanced ques be this ridiculous means ALL prices on mats are going to skyrocket. Its absurd.
All this complaining about the new difficulty levels it's very amusing. You see for a while we had all these blow hard complaining about how easy things were (well they were bragging actually) so they upped the difficulty and what do we have? The same blow hard crying all over the forums. Wah it's to hard,wah my shop can't do it. Wah wah.
Well suck it up butter cups. What cryptic had done was a huge favor. This will weed out the wanna need and noobs. How many estfs have been ruined by dub 5000dps players messing things up? Quite allot actually. Nite you need a good build and time in game. So stop your belly asking level up and see things for what they really are
Funny thing is, I am confident you have yet to complete an Advanced qeue. If so, post a vid.
I used to enjoy doing a few runs of Crystalline / Rh'lhho etc. in the evenings, as a casual player. Now I can't beat neither. Crystalline HP?! Lol. Gg awp. Rh'lhho save all 6 engineers? With a random team? Lol... Satan, is this you?
I love the game system in general. The missions, the reputation system, all the different equipment. But now they remove the most crucial thing in the chain: the missions. From the casual player. Cause a casual player is simply unable to complete these. I'm not gonna spend 2 hours trying to kill Crystalline.
I used to fear change. Now I fear change even more. Well played, Delta Rising.
I entered a few STF's and the group, not including myself, were overrun quite quickly.
People have become to complacent with easy STF's. they were too proud of their accomplishments on old content when they were over geared for it.
This new content will vex some for a while and then some folks will start to beat it easily as they progress.
Much crying was experienced with "A no win situation" back when it was released...now it is common to see folks beating it all the time.
The game is actually a challenge again. I , for one, am stoked to play a game that is challenging.
I have always played the game like there was no "insert quarter to continue" mentality...more a perma death situation.
I, for one, love the optional fail END OF GAME mechanic....
Thats all well and great but the things you are describing should be in the HARDEST TIER not the tier under the hardest tier. The way they have it now it is a NIGHTMARE to get the advanced R&D mat packs which will in turn skyrocket all mat costs at the same time they we need them more than ever. (for upgrades etc)
Honestly Cryptic, are you kidding with the Advanced difficulty? I personally enjoy how hard it is, but it is pretty much impossible for a newbie/novice pilot to even complete those missions.
Sure, I can do Advanced with a T6 ship and rep gear with mk XIII weapons and by getting into a group of high DPS people and together we pull 87k DPS, but do you (Cryptic) think that casuals or newbies or people without that gear can even pull half that?
I'm fairly sure that by adding the fact that you can only get the required items for rep gear by doing the Advanced versions, you (Cryptic) are basically giving the finger to every single new player that comes into the game.
I don't mind if Elite is hard. Hell, make Elite as hard as you want! Just don't shaft the newbies with Advanced, it won't be fun for them if they lose all the time.
Are you sure you aren't just feeling bad for yourself? Why would a newbie think that he should try Advanced first?
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
i'm guessing you haven't done any crafting either? they don't cost 60k each. if you craft as you level to 50 you can make your own superior upgrade and massively cut into the dil cost.
your whole debate is coming down to 'newbs won't do this' when what you really mean is you won't do it.
Okay, let's go with the superior upgrade shall we? 850k EC each. Whee, we just spent now 15 million EC to upgrade ONE WEAPON.
Not to mention the superiors are just flat out not worth it.
Don't assume I'm talking about me. I have all that stuff already, it cost me a fortune. But, I've also been playing for 3 years. I can't imagine someone trying to amass that wealth when they just start out.
Comments
Good luck to the new players attempting to get the gear to go to Advanced difficulty. Oh wait, that's right. They can't because in order to get the gear they have to play advanced.
Oh, if only Cryptics' logic worked, because then that would be the intended outcome.
and you can get tons of gear from the rep systems that don't require advanced queues.
The problem with that is they can't get mats (borg neural processor, ect) for decent rep gear outside of the very rare chance of getting a drop in the rep reward boxes.
If you think a 10k boat is going to clear a STF filled with 800k spheres trying to climb up your TRIBBLE, you havent been STFing today.
Oh, it's even better. Advanced is actually about 50% harder than old Elite, and new Elite is only 10% harder than Advanced. >.<
Not to mention in the Advanced STFs, all the mobs had their damage and HP multiplied by 5.
Hence its never going to end well with an under geared ship, not to mention under geared team mates.
and the goal here is to get people off their 2-3k ships and pretending that they are kings of the hill because they can take out a cube in a missions with their low dps. it's not challenging to get your dps up to 10k, 15k, and so on. people need to stop thinking just because they can autofire something to death in a regular mission with their rainbow boats they're a good player.
You seem to forget that we speak of the rainbow boats here. I'm talking newbies with no funds to be able to get that kind of DPS. Tell me it's easy to get 15k DPS while surviving a metric ton of incoming damage while using mk xii blue exchange gear and a mirror/basic zen ship.
All you need to do to test this is unequip all your rep gear, all your rep passives and get out of your shiny super-ship. Guaranteed it won't work for adv.
you seem to want to believe that a newb should be able to do an astf in a week. that's not the case. but if you take some time you do stfs and other rep missions and build a boat that can easily do advanced queues without major issues.
but as usual, everyone's comments are about immediate gratification and making it happen now. you didn't get to 50 in 1 day, you shouldn't expect to be able to do the advanced and elite queues in 1 day of reaching 50 either. you build toward it.
you can still get an upgrade token from the c-store by not paying anything other than refined dilithium converted into zen. The same goes for one of the new ships.
You can also get starship traits through the specialization system. This expansion is redefining the entire game in a way we haven't seen before. it'll just take time to get used to the changes.
Well ... , I've read about 5 pages of this thread and have seen it deteriorate into the (by now) usual accusations of noob VS pro VS elitist -- sooo ... I'll propose a question :
Is it possible that due to the hill HP that the DR ships gain through leveling -- well is it possible that the DR ships should have come with a warning "do not use before hitting Lvl 60" ?
I'm asking this not simply because that alone is the question -- I'm asking because if we take a look at the LOR ship pack which was just as expensive -- nothing in that had you use those ships and come out with a feeling of ... dare I say suckage ?
You bought those ships , you equipped them and you went off to have a good time .
In contrast , ppl purchased the DR ships , equipped them and failed STF's , fleet actions , fleet alerts etc .
^^^ and in this ... , the player experience is vastly different .
Still doesn't change the fact that newbies can't get the rep gear until they complete Advanced.
I did a cure where we averaged 9k per person and we did't even come close to completing it before the kang was killed. The reason being the bop's and spheres have over 600k hull and also tons of shielding (half the dps was to shields half to hull unlike the old estf where it was 20% to shields 80% to hulls)
Thank you for that. 9k DPS is not too shabby to expect from each person, yet they still failed easily. This is clearly a problem for new players.
If it wasn't helpful , 10% of the forums would not be constantly repeating it now would they ?! :rolleyes:
Too bad they don't follow it up with a logical explanation about how a BOP now has 600K hit points while a Borg Cube has 750K .
Cause making MKXIV gear doesn't cost around 60k dilithium per weapon?
You are asking a newbie who can't even play an advanced STF to shell out 480k dilithium for a set of weapons they can compete with?
This is kind of a ludicrious argument.
I TOTALLY AGREE. You have to be just a flat out loserboy to get off on people being mad that the tier UNDER the hardest is ridiculously hard.
No one that is complaining about advanced ques is doing it because they suck or want to use an easy build. Advanced ques are NOT the hardest difficultly. The fact that they are this "hard" is an error on the devs not something that people should have to deal with.
Its actually very simple. Normal should be easy, advanced should be a little harder, and elite should be super hard. That is NOT what we have now.
your whole debate is coming down to 'newbs won't do this' when what you really mean is you won't do it.
Try to upgrade all of your favorite Ships & all of your Mk XII Gear with refined Dil and we'll talk again ... I doubt I'll live to see this day, though ...
What? Its easy as heck to get marks in places besides the pve ques. The main things people are looking to get in an advanced que are the R&D mat packs. Having advanced ques be this ridiculous means ALL prices on mats are going to skyrocket. Its absurd.
Funny thing is, I am confident you have yet to complete an Advanced qeue. If so, post a vid.
I love the game system in general. The missions, the reputation system, all the different equipment. But now they remove the most crucial thing in the chain: the missions. From the casual player. Cause a casual player is simply unable to complete these. I'm not gonna spend 2 hours trying to kill Crystalline.
I used to fear change. Now I fear change even more. Well played, Delta Rising.
Thats all well and great but the things you are describing should be in the HARDEST TIER not the tier under the hardest tier. The way they have it now it is a NIGHTMARE to get the advanced R&D mat packs which will in turn skyrocket all mat costs at the same time they we need them more than ever. (for upgrades etc)
Are you sure you aren't just feeling bad for yourself? Why would a newbie think that he should try Advanced first?
Okay, let's go with the superior upgrade shall we? 850k EC each. Whee, we just spent now 15 million EC to upgrade ONE WEAPON.
Not to mention the superiors are just flat out not worth it.
Don't assume I'm talking about me. I have all that stuff already, it cost me a fortune. But, I've also been playing for 3 years. I can't imagine someone trying to amass that wealth when they just start out.