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Difficulty Feedback (was "Terrible Elite Mode")

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  • darkdog13darkdog13 Member Posts: 209 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    stf65 wrote: »
    that's bs. i did 2 astfs yesterday and i'm doing under 11k. sure, not every team's gonna succeed but don't assume because you failed everyone will.

    What was the overall dps for your team? In my cure the dps per team member was 12k for me 11k , 10k , 7k and 5k for a total of about 45k dps but even if the 2 lower players had been doing 10k we still would not have completed advanced cure because each bird of prey has over 600k hull hp plus strong shields even if you have 2 players guarding kang doing 10k aoe damage each they are gonna take over 30 seconds to clear a wave of bird of prey's and that ignoring shields since there is no way to tell how strong they are.

    Originally Posted by stf65 View Post
    do you not understand that you can craft superiors at level 15 and that you don't need to buy them? you really don't understand crafting.

    Getting to level 15 crafting takes 105 days without paying to skip timegates (if you factor in criticals you could do it in 90 days if you always crit the rd mission)
    Paying to skip the timegates would cost you around 1,620,000 dilithium per rd school just to get to level 15.

    The upgrade system and rd crafting is a massive money sink and nothing more. For players who been playing for awhile and have tons of dilithium stocked up they are not gonna notice it as much but for a new player they are screwed.
  • ummaxummax Member Posts: 529 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    knocky wrote: »
    Still in the same godamn STF I was when I posted on the 1st page.

    Optional time limit failed of course.....but by God we will get our 400 dil

    7,152,715 Tac Cube....it just makes the 20 minutes just to kill it FUN!

    Thank you for showing us what real FUN is Devs

    the risk vs reward is wrong the time for any of them even the normal is skewed

    I completed a few advanced last night my dps on my guys with the carriers is quite high and came in either 2nd or 3rd on the ones that guage such things. I then went to do the normals but switched to a lesser ship to try to match what I thought people would have when doing a normal. The time to complete one was very long the rewards were horrible. Now these are all pve q's for people who are levelling from 50-60 so even the advanced people will not have 'all the right gear' that is for level 60 when you are capped out and working towards your final goal of a nice ship with all the right trimmings.

    Logically then challenges should match but they dont. I even read somewhere in this thread that the elites are cake if you can do an advanced, but the elites are for fully decked out level 60 people with uber everything.

    Why are the advanced as hard as the elites? for people who are level 51 and in a t5 ship? makes no sense

    /shrug
  • opo98opo98 Member Posts: 435 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    stf65 wrote: »
    See, when you can't refute the points you try to misdirect.

    just accept that how you want to do things isn't how most newbs coming into the game will be doing things. they're gonna level and craft as they go. they're going to upgrade gear and weapons as they're playing. they're not gonna be as focused on rep stuff as we were coming up because for them there's more avenues to getting good gear besides just reps.

    the newbs are playing in a much bigger arena then we were. we spent years grinding the same stfs over and over to get the 'good' gear, but that isn't needed any more. now people can just take their favor breen set or whatever and make it great.

    the newbs are gonna have it much easier then we did.

    Of course, I'm some evil genius who purposely misdirects every point when I can't refute them. >.>

    It is just that I simply cannot argue with someone who is so set in stone with their viewpoint that they defend it with personal attacks. So I refuse to argue any more. You win, tadaa.

    Just know that newbies will have a harder time than we did. Remember when the queues were playable with exchange gear and they rewarded generous amounts of mats? That was before Delta Rising.
  • betayuyabetayuya Member Posts: 1,059 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    i did Crystalline Advanced in a Mk X blue/green Varanus healer a few hours ago, did see at the begining, people where all over the place, some then left, but by the time is got about 7 minutes in, people stuck together, we did good, and beat it with little issue.

    another issue is people dive into elites without ever doing the normals first, then they push through and ether win but leaning quick, or die because it truly is not good enough, and they do not have the right Bridge Officer Moves and or gear. usually not the gear in question.
    eywdK7c.jpg
  • aelfwin1aelfwin1 Member Posts: 2,896 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    stf65 wrote: »
    i'm guessing you haven't done any crafting either? they don't cost 60k each. if you craft as you level to 50 you can make your own superior upgrade and massively cut into the dil cost.

    Actually you can't craft superior tech upgrades until you're level 15 in crafting ... and it takes you either a ton of time or a ton of Dip to get to level 15 .

    You sound desperate to prove that the jump from level ,50 to 60 is a cakewalk .
    You are wrong .

    From now on, the motto for the new sto player is "pay or gtfo" .
  • darkjeffdarkjeff Member Posts: 2,590 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    aelfwin1 wrote: »
    Is it possible that due to the hill HP that the DR ships gain through leveling -- well is it possible that the DR ships should have come with a warning "do not use before hitting Lvl 60" ?

    I'm asking this not simply because that alone is the question -- I'm asking because if we take a look at the LOR ship pack which was just as expensive -- nothing in that had you use those ships and come out with a feeling of ... dare I say suckage ?
    You bought those ships , you equipped them and you went off to have a good time .

    In contrast , ppl purchased the DR ships , equipped them and failed STF's , fleet actions , fleet alerts etc .

    ^^^ and in this ... , the player experience is vastly different .

    The increased difficulty and the new ships are completely separate things.

    I'm only at level 51 right now, being a casual player. I know some people are already 60.

    At this point, my T6 ships, with no mastery traits, are not a massive jump in performance compared to my T5.5 ships. For the most part, it's just one additional BOff ability. The Intel ones have new toys, but they're not going to make a significant difference.

    It's like the difference between T5 and T5.5, it's not that huge a difference. When people claim they suck because they don't have the best ships, it's nothing more than an excuse. With the same ship, @sarcasmdetector gets 30k and I get 15k. Piloting skill makes the difference.

    The T6 ships are a bit better than T5, but they're not going to make you a better pilot, and again - player skill is what matters.

    There are plenty of people who can handle the new content in T5s, and on Tribble we had groups of T5.5 ships doing the content just fine, without access to the new toys. The issue is that the previous difficulty coddled the player base so that weaksauce ships doing 3k DPS were fine in ISE. This is no longer the case - people need to know what they're doing, or they'll fail.

    In time, this will pass. People will step up to the challenge. It just takes time for people's ego to deflate, and realize that their 5k builds were never any good, it was just the enemy that sucked.
  • hausofmartokhausofmartok Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    opo98 wrote: »
    Honestly Cryptic, are you kidding with the Advanced difficulty? I personally enjoy how hard it is, but it is pretty much impossible for a newbie/novice pilot to even complete those missions.

    Sure, I can do Advanced with a T6 ship and rep gear with mk XIII weapons and by getting into a group of high DPS people and together we pull 87k DPS, but do you (Cryptic) think that casuals or newbies or people without that gear can even pull half that?

    I'm fairly sure that by adding the fact that you can only get the required items for rep gear by doing the Advanced versions, you (Cryptic) are basically giving the finger to every single new player that comes into the game.

    I don't mind if Elite is hard. Hell, make Elite as hard as you want! Just don't shaft the newbies with Advanced, it won't be fun for them if they lose all the time.

    Noobs and ultra casuals can stick to the "Normal" queues. What's hard about this for people to understand? Also, there's a whole thread by Geko explaining difficulty and that they will be adjusting it in the next few weeks according to player feedback.
    It would be great if people would stop complaining about advanced being too hard. If you can't hack it, stay out of it. It's that simple.
  • architect13architect13 Member Posts: 1,076 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    knocky wrote: »
    If you think a 10k boat is going to clear a STF filled with 800k spheres trying to climb up your TRIBBLE, you havent been STFing today.

    Advanced Infected -- 6 million HP Gateway and 7 million HP cube
    Have you tried the new forum on your phone?
  • heckgoblinheckgoblin Member Posts: 685
    edited October 2014
    So, my weapons have become a lot more deadly. That's nice.

    But all NPCs in the game have also become a lot tougher. That's not nice.

    I used to be able to tear apart the tac cubes in Ker'rat solo. Now it takes a bunch of people to bring just one down. Did the Borg start grinding upgrades too? Why can't we raid their dilithium reserves?

    This feels like getting on a treadmill. I was happy with my top-end gear. Now it needs countless billions of resources dumped into it... just to get it back to where it was.

    Every silver lining has a cloud crapping all over it, I guess.
    I AM WAR.
  • darkdog13darkdog13 Member Posts: 209 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Noobs and ultra casuals can stick to the "Normal" queues. What's hard about this for people to understand? Also, there's a whole thread by Geko explaining difficulty and that they will be adjusting it in the next few weeks according to player feedback.
    It would be great if people would stop complaining about advanced being too hard. If you can't hack it, stay out of it. It's that simple.

    So great stick to normals and never get the implants needed to buy the rep gear....

    So whats the point of doing normal stf's again?
  • stf65stf65 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    aelfwin1 wrote: »
    Actually you can't craft superior tech upgrades until you're level 15 in crafting ... and it takes you either a ton of time or a ton of Dip to get to level 15 .
    omg you people. just read some of the actual crafting threads. not the ones you normally post in where you complain about everything, but the ones where actual crafters are telling you how to get to 15 quickly without spending tons of resources.

    you guys are massively uniformed, probably due to all the mental rage keeping you from learning anything, and so keep repeating the same stupidity over and over. i feel like i'm in the deep south in the late 1800s around here: all hate biased stereotypes with no ability to actually learn what's going on.
  • thutmosis85thutmosis85 Member Posts: 2,358 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    I don't plan on upgrading every Tier 5 upgradable ship I own right away. I'm not one who usually plays through the queues much so until I feel I have to upgrade, I'll be content with what I have on me for the time being as I go through the progression.

    Newsflash : You're not "going through the progression" if you don't plan on upgrading anything ... or are you talking about something spiritual here ?
    Patch Notes : Resolved an Issue, where people would accidently experience Fun.
  • architect13architect13 Member Posts: 1,076 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    opo98 wrote: »
    Cause making MKXIV gear doesn't cost around 60k dilithium per weapon?

    You are asking a newbie who can't even play an advanced STF to shell out 480k dilithium for a set of weapons they can compete with?

    This is kind of a ludicrious argument.

    Thank goodness you can buy dilithium . .
    Have you tried the new forum on your phone?
  • opo98opo98 Member Posts: 435 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    stf65 wrote: »
    omg you people. just read some of the actual crafting threads. not the ones you normally post in where you complain about everything, but the ones where actual crafters are telling you how to get to 15 quickly without spending tons of resources.

    you guys are massively uniformed, probably due to all the mental rage keeping you from learning anything, and so keep repeating the same stupidity over and over. i feel like i'm in the deep south in the late 1800s around here: all hate biased stereotypes with no ability to actually learn what's going on.

    The only person throwing hate based sterotypes around is you btw.
  • stark2kstark2k Member Posts: 1,467 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    opo98 wrote: »
    Honestly Cryptic, are you kidding with the Advanced difficulty? I personally enjoy how hard it is, but it is pretty much impossible for a newbie/novice pilot to even complete those missions.

    Sure, I can do Advanced with a T6 ship and rep gear with mk XIII weapons and by getting into a group of high DPS people and together we pull 87k DPS, but do you (Cryptic) think that casuals or newbies or people without that gear can even pull half that?

    I'm fairly sure that by adding the fact that you can only get the required items for rep gear by doing the Advanced versions, you (Cryptic) are basically giving the finger to every single new player that comes into the game.

    I don't mind if Elite is hard. Hell, make Elite as hard as you want! Just don't shaft the newbies with Advanced, it won't be fun for them if they lose all the time.

    Forget the newbies, what about the normal players who have not reach 60 yet - Advance was suppose to be the old elite, and the new Elite is meant to be super hard.

    Here is the problem, it is a new kind of griefing by design, if a lvl 60 joins a pug in advance, it bumps up everyone to 60, but without the 60 gear and specs, making it harder for the others.

    It makes the enemy harder as well since a 60 is in the lot, this reminds me of the old Griefing tactic of random space battles in sector space. A lvl 50 enters in noob area, and then spike up the enemies.

    It is definitely a Team flawed system, where the queue isn't design to distinguish between 50's and 60's. It will auto bump any to rank 60 if there is at least one 60 in the mix.
    StarTrekIronMan.jpg
  • crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Member Posts: 4,115 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    rickpaaa wrote: »
    Many of us have paid over $100 for the Delta Pack, and as you can see on the forums, our first experiences with our new tier 6 ships, and tier 5 upgrades is failure after failure. Even in regular fleet alerts! Please do go ahead and make elite truly elite, but let those of us who were happy playing STO up to now have a decent shot at advanced content just like we did until yesterday with elite content.

    I hope PvE is adjusted with an emergency patch very soon. No one wants to pay to lose. Nobody!

    last I heard the DR pack just came with T6 ships and gear. It DIDN'T come with a 'ROFL stomp I WIN!' button. You have to play the game and make some build decisions. If you don't do a decent build, just having some extra HP another special console and two extra Boff abilities won't help if you don't choose stuff that fits your playstyle (and no just spamming the spacebar isn't a winning playstyle with the new Expansion.)
    Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
    TOS_Connie_Sig_final9550Pop.jpg
    PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
  • stf65stf65 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    opo98 wrote: »
    The only person throwing hate based sterotypes around is you btw.
    stop worrying abourt my attitude, mom, and spend some time learning how the game really works rather then how you think it works.
  • knockyknocky Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Noobs and ultra casuals can stick to the "Normal" queues. What's hard about this for people to understand? Also, there's a whole thread by Geko explaining difficulty and that they will be adjusting it in the next few weeks according to player feedback.
    It would be great if people would stop complaining about advanced being too hard. If you can't hack it, stay out of it. It's that simple.

    Take a ship with nothing but Vice Admiral mission awards are lets see you climb the Faction ladder.


    Tell me something, how do you get the Borg Processors to buy the gear to be able to survive inside an Advanced STF....when you have to farm a hundred Advanced STF's to get the Processors and other items needed to craft a piece of faction gear?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • opo98opo98 Member Posts: 435 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    stark2k wrote: »
    Forget the newbies, what about the normal players who have not reach 60 yet - Advance was suppose to be the old elite, and the new Elite is meant to be super hard.

    Here is the problem, it is a new kind of griefing by design, if a lvl 60 joins a pug in advance, it bumps up everyone to 60, but without the 60 gear and specs, making it harder for the others.

    It makes the enemy harder as well since a 60 is in the lot, this reminds me of the old Griefing tactic of random space battles in sector space. A lvl 50 enters in noob area, and then spike up the enemies.

    It is definitely a Team flawed system, where the queue isn't design to distinguish between 50's and 60's. It will auto bump any to rank 60 if there is at least one 60 in the mix.

    Greifing by design is a good way to put it. However, I still think that it may be too hard for even a fresh 60.
  • variant37variant37 Member Posts: 867 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    anazonda wrote: »
    Well... I was one of those people bragging about how easy it was... I find the new levels... Exciting...

    I don't. My strategy has always been to fly around an STF with my eyes closed while repeatedly hammering the spacebar. If that's no longer a viable approach Cryptic has obviously done something wrong and I demand nerfs!
  • resumodresumod Member Posts: 62 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    stf65 wrote: »
    omg you people. just read some of the actual crafting threads. not the ones you normally post in where you complain about everything, but the ones where actual crafters are telling you how to get to 15 quickly without spending tons of resources.

    you guys are massively uniformed, probably due to all the mental rage keeping you from learning anything, and so keep repeating the same stupidity over and over. i feel like i'm in the deep south in the late 1800s around here: all hate biased stereotypes with no ability to actually learn what's going on.
    Make a level 1 and do all you said without using recources of any of your other chars. Do all the stuff you want to tell us. Show us that you are right. Good luck, you will need it. Until then you are the raging troll here.

    Btw, i just played one char up before the XP bonus event with the old droprates. Funfact, the more EC you allready have, the faster you gather EC.

    Crafting beside the 20h projects cost DI and Mats. You can get white and green and sometimes blue mats from Doffing. But you might be level 20 if your stock is good enough to craft anything.

    The problem is the DI. 5 to 1000 DI (crit on a 20h + 20h cooldown one) (or 2000 for Contra, 40k EC for one contra) for a fed player. KDF gets some more.
  • fireseeedfireseeed Member Posts: 146 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    May be I'm just a good player but free ship Star cruiser and the advance STF haven't proven to be much of a challenge for me yet. But may be I just been lucky that I been with players with big enough ships that they can cover for my lack of a decent ship and fire power or perhaps I just got a exceptionally well equipped ship, I don't think I have, through the Vaadwaur Cluster torpedo pack a punch, free weapon for doing the missions.

    I haven't spent a penny on this game either.

    But it is a time for me to get a new ship through, after months of saving up my Dilithium, Guardian Cruiser or Eclipse Intel Cruiser or shall I hold until cryptic release a Tier 6 vessel I actually like the look off, decisions decisions decisions.
  • zarxidejackozarxidejacko Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    There is normal for newbs, if rewards are not satisfactory for them then git gud or git out.
    2010 is my join date.
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  • opo98opo98 Member Posts: 435 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    fireseeed wrote: »
    May be I'm just a good player but free ship Star cruiser and the advance STF haven't proven to be much of a challenge for me yet. But may be I just been lucky that I been with players with big enough ships that they can cover for my lack of a decent ship and fire power or perhaps I just got a exceptionally well equipped ship.

    I haven't spent a penny on this game either.

    But it is a time for me to get a new ship through, after months of saving up my Dilithium, Guardian Cruiser or Eclipse Intel Cruiser or shall I hold until cryptic release a Tier 6 vessel I actually like the look off, decisions decisions decisions.

    I'm glad you have had a good experience so far. Surprising with pugs. Are you sure you did it on Advanced though?

    My personal advice for ships at least would be to wait until T6 fleet ships come out, or bleed major EC for the new lockbox ships.
  • gavinrunebladegavinruneblade Member Posts: 3,894 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    trelane87 wrote: »
    Ya I don't know about that, I used to be able to knock out a couple subsystems with my drains.. even on tribble before launch I was still doing alright with drains. But now I'm having more luck using an escort with my sci toon instead of my drain boat... I guess sci ships are only for PVP now :rolleyes:

    No, look in the thread about finally advanced Borg disconnected with all optionals. Particle gen sci builds with tactical captains are able to obliterate anything. The M
  • captinwh0captinwh0 Member Posts: 783 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    I have to agree with the op, I have been developing a new alt, and I have a build put together using what a get from the rep, and what I can afford on the exchange.

    I have even cheated a little and I have a plas leach, a tu chimera, marion dulmar doff and a full aux2batt with all purple doffs, and I am having a great deal of bother with the missions.

    I am making a thread on this because I need help

    http://skillplanner.stoacademy.com/?build=tuchimera_0 <<<<<<Wep setup
    nerf.jpg]
  • opo98opo98 Member Posts: 435 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    There is normal for newbs, if rewards are not satisfactory for them then git gud or git out.

    Lol, sincere absolute genius. I had a chuckle out of that one.

    I think you hit Cryptic's mission statement right there with the new difficulty.
    Unfortunately, I think the "get out" part is more likely.
  • phantomeightphantomeight Member Posts: 567 Bug Hunter
    edited October 2014
    opo98 wrote: »
    Okay, let's go with the superior upgrade shall we? 850k EC each. Whee, we just spent now 15 million EC to upgrade ONE WEAPON.

    Not to mention the superiors are just flat out not worth it.

    Don't assume I'm talking about me. I have all that stuff already, it cost me a fortune. But, I've also been playing for 3 years. I can't imagine someone trying to amass that wealth when they just start out.


    Well, I paid 400K EC each for about 85 Superior beam weapons upgrades last Sunday. IT IS THE SECOND DAY PEOPLE...... I actually flipped them all and made ~30 million off of people who don't think or understand all of the game... that's the problem here with most of the posts.

    How many specialization points have you spent? What level are you? Starship Mastery? A player, as a top end geared lvl 50 has no business in a Advanced STF with out getting your stuff right first.
    join Date: Sep 2009 - I want my changeling lava lamp!
  • vesterengvestereng Member Posts: 2,252 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    I am going to have to completely agree with deokkent on this one.

    Making it take longer has nothing to do with difficulty, and, is not what people openly announced they wanted.

    In fact one of the concrete, certified requests consistently was to make the game more than "escorts online" and have the "mmo trinity" validate all types of gameplay such as tanking, controlling and healing.

    If you look what system changes they did in notepad for this round, nothing the community asked was added and that goes for everyone on every level.

    Rp, pvp, casual you name it
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