note on 1st test got a lucky crit and went from Mk XIII vr -> Mk XIV ur
the second run was more typical #3 failed 2x so 51-STU needed, #4 failed 4x so 95-STU needed
using 500k as cost of STU = 163 STU used at 81.5mil total EC
That's an insane amount of ec, I mean to give others who might not know an idea the record a fleet member of mine made in a month for ec was about 400 million (bit more than that, just don't remember the exact number).
So for the sakes of not being pedantic, that's essentially 5 full upgrades each month if you were to do it by that working. Now if a higher end ship (cruiser as they'll be more costly) has 8 weapons, 11 consoles, engine, deflector, shield and core, that's about 23 items. Obviously it'll vary between normal and rep gear but in round figures that's going to be about 4.5 months of upgrading.
365,000 ec on the exchange now it's had a chance to settle, so using the same working you used that would be 365,000 x 163 STU = 59,495,000 ec, which is still very high, I'll keep an eye on it still, however I do think the experimental versions of the superior upgrades would be better anyway depending on how readily available the ultra-rare mats are.
EDIT: Forgot to mention, your pictures show a practically non-existent stat increase in the omega carbine from XII to XIV and no difference at all from XIV Purple to XIV Gold.
Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. - Euripides
I no longer do any Bug Hunting work for Cryptic. I may resume if a serious attempt to fix the game is made.
I had a problem with the Dyson ground set. I applied upgrades to two pieces, and they were a set, while the rifle, which I didn't apply an upgrade, became odd man out. By applying a common upgrade, the set bonus was back again.
So, in other words, there is no official feedback thread for the Holodeck upgrade system. So, it would appear, I'm already in the right thread. Thanks for confirming what I already know and going off topic with your pointless jabs at me. Nice talking to you :rolleyes:
I didn't confirm anything for you, Drowrulesupreme did. And it wasn't a pointless jab at you. At the time, when neither you or I were aware of the Dev's instruction to post here. You weren't doing something because you should, you were doing it because you could. Your post history shows what I said about your spamming and attacking anyone who disagreed with you. I am done feeding the troll. And as Drowrulesupreme stated, let's try to be civil. I would add on to that and say don't be Sybil.
Just as a side note for all those tribble testers getting testy ( ) with people posting feedback from holodeck in this thread, and telling others to go post in holodeck threads, that we have been directed to post our feedback here by a dev.
One thing I think we can all agree on is this should not have been released to holodeck with so many bugs reported by dedicated tribble testers still unfixed. I saw so much confusion in zone chat yesterday I had to stop playing before I went mad.
Thank you for that information.
"I'm not big on telepaths myself. I'm not big on guns either. But if everyone else has them, I want to make sure I can get my hands on the biggest one I can."
Yeah, they should've made us replace all of our gear instead like other MMORPGs, huh? :rolleyes: Man they're far too generous! /sarcasm
Replacing or acquiring new gear isn't the issue. It's the costs associated with the upgrades. If the costs were lower significantly lower, so would the complaints. What makes the high costs worse is that you get random modifiers on your gear that you spent so much to upgrade and end up with a worthless [DMG].
Personally, I would rather buy new gear. My older ships from T1 all the way up to T5 and beyond are all equipped with the stuff I used at those levels. When goofing around in PvP (for fun), those lower tiered ships can be fun against a handful of friends in shuttles. Lets face it. It's only a matter of time before they add another batch of new fleet grinds with gear that will further push the power creep anyway.
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Looking for a new fleet? Drop by the in-game chat channel, "tenforwardforum", and say hi to the members of A Fleet Called Ten Forward (Fed) and The Orion Pirates (KDF). If you already have a fleet you are happy with, please feel free to drop by our chat channel if you are looking for a friendly bunch of helpful people to socialize with.
Replacing or acquiring new gear isn't the issue. It's the costs associated with the upgrades. If the costs were lower significantly lower, so would the complaints. What makes the high costs worse is that you get random modifiers on your gear that you spent so much to upgrade and end up with a worthless [DMG].
This is my pet hate with the upgrade system. The fact that its TOO damn EXPENSIVE and why if I can help it I wont be using it. From the numbers I've being seeing thrown up from the tribble testers its just not worth the effort on a possibility of getting something good.
Because it wouldn't surprise if after everyone has finished climbing over themselves to get everything upgraded, Cryptic turn round and announce that they're releasing a mod to the crafting system that will allow us to change/add the modifiers we want. But expect us to fork out a ton of dilithium again and people will go and do it.
As someone else pointed out/stated the addition of the dilithium costs and the fact that a limited range of items that were craftable, were the reason the old system went belly up.
And has the following quote from George Santayana, goes, "Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it." Here cryptic are once again on the brink of making the same mistakes as last time.
Question about the Critical Hit and Critical Severity consoles.
The Bio-Neural Infusion Circuits increases from 15.2 Critical Severity at Mk XII to 20 Critical Severity at Mk XIII.
The Tachyokinetic Convertor increases 0.76 Critical Hit and 7.6 Critical Severity at Mk XII to 1.0 Critical Hit and 10.0 Critical Severity at Mk XIII.
The Zero Point Energy Conduit increases from 1.8 Critical Hit at Mk XII to 1.9 Critical Hit at Mk XIII.
Both the Bio-Neural Infusion Circuits and Tachyokinetic Convertor receive an bonus of 31.57894736842105% while the Zero Point Energy Conduit receives a bonus of 5.55555%
I am wondering if this is an error or intended. The difference just seems odd.
"I'm not big on telepaths myself. I'm not big on guns either. But if everyone else has them, I want to make sure I can get my hands on the biggest one I can."
Question about the Critical Hit and Critical Severity consoles.
The Bio-Neural Infusion Circuits increases from 15.2 Critical Severity at Mk XII to 20 Critical Severity at Mk XIII.
The Tachyokinetic Convertor increases 0.76 Critical Hit and 7.6 Critical Severity at Mk XII to 1.0 Critical Hit and 10.0 Critical Severity at Mk XIII.
The Zero Point Energy Conduit increases from 1.8 Critical Hit at Mk XII to 1.9 Critical Hit at Mk XIII.
Both the Bio-Neural Infusion Circuits and Tachyokinetic Convertor receive an bonus of 31.57894736842105% while the Zero Point Energy Conduit receives a bonus of 5.55555%
I am wondering if this is an error or intended. The difference just seems odd.
Frankly, except for standard stuff (Skills on regular old non rep or mission gear), the way some of the skills scale seems completely arbitrary and random. Don't try to make sense of it.
Don't/wont craft and refuse to pay the ransom prices on the exchange, sorry. Don't mind buying tokens from vendor for 10k each maybe even more if needs be, but paying ransom prices and paying Dil to APPLY a token, is ludicrous.
The thing is, those aren't ransom prices, they're actually fire-sale prices. Superior tech tokens require very rare and rare materials to craft, and for just about everything I checked last night the cost for the token was lower than the cost for the required materials.
Prices will eventually normalize (once all the people selling at a loss realize and stop, or go broke and stop), but even then the price for a token is going to be highly dependant on the price of rare and VR materials. They're never going to be dirt cheap as long as it takes several runs of an STF just to get the materials to craft one token.
The actual upgrading of the equipment mark I have no issue with. Got 8 beams from mk II to mk XII with little actual cost.
The problem is really the quality upgrade of which I'm in two minds over. It's extremely costly for what is a random modifier. Again though, I feel that getting it to UR and "epic" (ugh) is more for min-maxers (of which I am one I'll admit), it's not designed so half the playerbase can go "Bang! Here's 8x Epic quality Antiproton Beam Arrays with CrtDx4 mods" within a weeks time.
Cryptic has made some boners, but the pre-release of a truncated version of a new and buggy system smacks of something certainly NOT with the best intentions of the customer in mind. It's not the devs fault that this mess was released prematurely; they are trying to work out bugs; its someone ABOVE them that needed to hit some sort of financial metric and had the worst idea since Julius Caesar said "I think TODAY would be a fine day to go to the senate house!"
So much mass confusion on an unnecessarily convoluted and complex system. This system really needs a streamline.
EVERYTHING should be upgradeable. EVERYTHING before release: and yes, I'm also talking preorder items too; no good reason they should be singled out aside from laziness or them not allowing us to have the same builds with the same ships with the same outcomes.
This system should NOT have seen the time of day until destructive bugs were mostly gone, limitations removed, and dilithium costs brought down to a more sensible level.
So I after a day of upgrading a few items to Mk XIII I started to notice what would be the normal experience needed to upgrade items. Then I looked at the experience needed for the Borg Cutting Beam. It has the same cost as a Ship Shield around 106,000 experience rounded down to reach Mk XIII. The Dyson shield cost 900 marks around 32,000 Dil and few other odds and ends. The Borg Cutting Beam cost 500 marks and like 9000 Dil I think. Point is the cost for the Cutting Beam makes no sense. I assume this is a glitch could you please recheck the experience needed or the thought process involved in making up that cost?
We have a programmer looking into the Nausicaan tegolar swords, and a patch has been submitted for the tritanium rending bat'leth.
The tsunkatse falchions aren't upgrading properly either, or the nanopulses. Personally it seems all the melee weapons aren't doing what they should be for varying reasons.
Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. - Euripides
I no longer do any Bug Hunting work for Cryptic. I may resume if a serious attempt to fix the game is made.
So I after a day of upgrading a few items to Mk XIII I started to notice what would be the normal experience needed to upgrade items. Then I looked at the experience needed for the Borg Cutting Beam. It has the same cost as a Ship Shield around 106,000 experience rounded down to reach Mk XIII. The Dyson shield cost 900 marks around 32,000 Dil and few other odds and ends. The Borg Cutting Beam cost 500 marks and like 9000 Dil I think. Point is the cost for the Cutting Beam makes no sense. I assume this is a glitch could you please recheck the experience needed or the thought process involved in making up that cost?
That's not a glitch. All reputation set gear uses the same modifier to calculate the cost to upgrade it.
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
Huh, I have discovered a wrinkle in the upgrade system.
Let's use the example of a Very Rare item.
Normally, for a Very Rare item, when you fill up the TP bar you have a 5% chance that it will crit and become Ultra Rare during upgrade. But if you're using [Major Technology Boost (2x technology points)] to halve the number of Upgrade kits needed to fill the TP bar, you also halve the amount of rarity increase research that you get in the second bar to only 2.5% because you only need to apply half of the number of Upgrade kits before the TP bar fills up.
I guess this is by design (whether intentional or not). It's a tradeoff between spending 2x the dilithium to fill the TP bar or using the accelerator but only getting half of the rarity increase chance.
-edit to add-
So it would seem that the most efficient method of saving dilithium would be some combination of using Experimental kits, regular Superior kits, 2x TP accelerators, and maybe 2x Rarity accelerators, switching out your strategy depending on if you are upgrading Mark level or upgrading Rarity. And the balance will be different if you're trying to get an early-on rarity increase from a low level item before upgrading it to XIV.
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
Huh, I have discovered a wrinkle in the upgrade system.
Let's use the example of a Very Rare item.
Normally, for a Very Rare item, when you fill up the TP bar you have a 5% chance that it will crit and become Ultra Rare during upgrade. But if you're using [Major Technology Boost (2x technology points)] to halve the number of Upgrade kits needed to fill the TP bar, you also halve the amount of rarity increase research that you get in the second bar to only 2.5% because you only need to apply half of the number of Upgrade kits before the TP bar fills up.
I guess this is by design (whether intentional or not). It's a tradeoff between spending 2x the dilithium to fill the TP bar or using the accelerator but only getting half of the rarity increase chance.
I noticed this yesterday and thought it was already reported as a bug on Tribble. My memory must be failing me. I can't believe that it's intentional for accelerators to reduce the chance of a rarity upgrade. Are you sure "Major Technology Boost (2x technology points)" halves the TP needed to fill the bar instead of doubling the TP granted by the tech? I would have coded it the other way so that the overflow to the next mark is also doubled. Are you saying that the overflow is halved?
I will not be spending any money on the upgrade system or participating in it in any way unless dilithium costs and time requirements are brought down to a reasonable level so that the Upgrade system makes the game more enjoyable and not a way to drain my wallet and eat up the valuable game time I have trying to get modest upgrades that aren't worth the cost.
If failure to spend money on the upgrade system means that my playing experience declines after Delta Rising goes live, then I'll simply leave the game.
^ This is what I meant. My wording may have been bad. It halves the number of techs you need via the mechanism of doubling the TP granted by each tech you apply. But it doesn't also double the rarity research per tech, so since you're only applying half of the # of techs you only get half of the research points in the process.
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
Personal Mobility Shields lose the 'Mobility' part of then when slotted for upgrade. =(
I can confirm this, and I've also encountered another, pretty significant issue myself.
When upgradingPrefire Chamber consoles, the console will become un-equipable.
This occurs as soon as the upgrade window opens with the console selected, you don't even have to use an upgrade for the bug to occur.
When you try to equip the console, you get the same message as if you did not meet the level requirements, even on a level 50 character, and on items that you just had equipped.
The bug remains if you sell/buyback the item, and persists across characters (confirmed through account bank) as well as accounts (confirmed by buying a Prefire Chamber from the Exchange that entered my inventory unable to be equipped for the same reason.)
Its a pretty big issue, considering that it makes any Prefire Chamber console totally useless.
Comments
That's an insane amount of ec, I mean to give others who might not know an idea the record a fleet member of mine made in a month for ec was about 400 million (bit more than that, just don't remember the exact number).
So for the sakes of not being pedantic, that's essentially 5 full upgrades each month if you were to do it by that working. Now if a higher end ship (cruiser as they'll be more costly) has 8 weapons, 11 consoles, engine, deflector, shield and core, that's about 23 items. Obviously it'll vary between normal and rep gear but in round figures that's going to be about 4.5 months of upgrading.
365,000 ec on the exchange now it's had a chance to settle, so using the same working you used that would be 365,000 x 163 STU = 59,495,000 ec, which is still very high, I'll keep an eye on it still, however I do think the experimental versions of the superior upgrades would be better anyway depending on how readily available the ultra-rare mats are.
EDIT: Forgot to mention, your pictures show a practically non-existent stat increase in the omega carbine from XII to XIV and no difference at all from XIV Purple to XIV Gold.
I had a problem with the Dyson ground set. I applied upgrades to two pieces, and they were a set, while the rifle, which I didn't apply an upgrade, became odd man out. By applying a common upgrade, the set bonus was back again.
Member since December 2009
I didn't confirm anything for you, Drowrulesupreme did. And it wasn't a pointless jab at you. At the time, when neither you or I were aware of the Dev's instruction to post here. You weren't doing something because you should, you were doing it because you could. Your post history shows what I said about your spamming and attacking anyone who disagreed with you. I am done feeding the troll. And as Drowrulesupreme stated, let's try to be civil. I would add on to that and say don't be Sybil.
Thank you for that information.
Replacing or acquiring new gear isn't the issue. It's the costs associated with the upgrades. If the costs were lower significantly lower, so would the complaints. What makes the high costs worse is that you get random modifiers on your gear that you spent so much to upgrade and end up with a worthless [DMG].
Personally, I would rather buy new gear. My older ships from T1 all the way up to T5 and beyond are all equipped with the stuff I used at those levels. When goofing around in PvP (for fun), those lower tiered ships can be fun against a handful of friends in shuttles. Lets face it. It's only a matter of time before they add another batch of new fleet grinds with gear that will further push the power creep anyway.
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This is my pet hate with the upgrade system. The fact that its TOO damn EXPENSIVE and why if I can help it I wont be using it. From the numbers I've being seeing thrown up from the tribble testers its just not worth the effort on a possibility of getting something good.
Because it wouldn't surprise if after everyone has finished climbing over themselves to get everything upgraded, Cryptic turn round and announce that they're releasing a mod to the crafting system that will allow us to change/add the modifiers we want. But expect us to fork out a ton of dilithium again and people will go and do it.
As someone else pointed out/stated the addition of the dilithium costs and the fact that a limited range of items that were craftable, were the reason the old system went belly up.
And has the following quote from George Santayana, goes, "Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it." Here cryptic are once again on the brink of making the same mistakes as last time.
The Bio-Neural Infusion Circuits increases from 15.2 Critical Severity at Mk XII to 20 Critical Severity at Mk XIII.
The Tachyokinetic Convertor increases 0.76 Critical Hit and 7.6 Critical Severity at Mk XII to 1.0 Critical Hit and 10.0 Critical Severity at Mk XIII.
The Zero Point Energy Conduit increases from 1.8 Critical Hit at Mk XII to 1.9 Critical Hit at Mk XIII.
Both the Bio-Neural Infusion Circuits and Tachyokinetic Convertor receive an bonus of 31.57894736842105% while the Zero Point Energy Conduit receives a bonus of 5.55555%
I am wondering if this is an error or intended. The difference just seems odd.
Frankly, except for standard stuff (Skills on regular old non rep or mission gear), the way some of the skills scale seems completely arbitrary and random. Don't try to make sense of it.
Prices will eventually normalize (once all the people selling at a loss realize and stop, or go broke and stop), but even then the price for a token is going to be highly dependant on the price of rare and VR materials. They're never going to be dirt cheap as long as it takes several runs of an STF just to get the materials to craft one token.
The problem is really the quality upgrade of which I'm in two minds over. It's extremely costly for what is a random modifier. Again though, I feel that getting it to UR and "epic" (ugh) is more for min-maxers (of which I am one I'll admit), it's not designed so half the playerbase can go "Bang! Here's 8x Epic quality Antiproton Beam Arrays with CrtDx4 mods" within a weeks time.
Daizen - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
Selia - Lvl 60 Tactical - Eclipse
So much mass confusion on an unnecessarily convoluted and complex system. This system really needs a streamline.
EVERYTHING should be upgradeable. EVERYTHING before release: and yes, I'm also talking preorder items too; no good reason they should be singled out aside from laziness or them not allowing us to have the same builds with the same ships with the same outcomes.
This system should NOT have seen the time of day until destructive bugs were mostly gone, limitations removed, and dilithium costs brought down to a more sensible level.
They need to be upgradable, every other melee weapon is.
The tsunkatse falchion doesn't get any stat boosts from upgrading, and the nanopulse edge weapons don't seem to work either.
Tribble Epic upgraded consoles 1
Tribble Epic upgraded consoles 2
Tribble Epic special consoles Non-upgradable from lockbox, c-store ships.
edit: found some pics for the highest tech upgrade points I found so far. [358,560 TP]
Pic 1
Pic 2
Pic 3
Yeah 11 upgrade fails in a row ....
Tritanium Rending Bat'leth is still not fixed as well.
Great news. What's the status of repairing items on Holodeck that have been stripped of mods with or without crafting? Will they be restored?
The tsunkatse falchions aren't upgrading properly either, or the nanopulses. Personally it seems all the melee weapons aren't doing what they should be for varying reasons.
That's not a glitch. All reputation set gear uses the same modifier to calculate the cost to upgrade it.
Joined January 2009
Let's use the example of a Very Rare item.
Normally, for a Very Rare item, when you fill up the TP bar you have a 5% chance that it will crit and become Ultra Rare during upgrade. But if you're using [Major Technology Boost (2x technology points)] to halve the number of Upgrade kits needed to fill the TP bar, you also halve the amount of rarity increase research that you get in the second bar to only 2.5% because you only need to apply half of the number of Upgrade kits before the TP bar fills up.
I guess this is by design (whether intentional or not). It's a tradeoff between spending 2x the dilithium to fill the TP bar or using the accelerator but only getting half of the rarity increase chance.
-edit to add-
So it would seem that the most efficient method of saving dilithium would be some combination of using Experimental kits, regular Superior kits, 2x TP accelerators, and maybe 2x Rarity accelerators, switching out your strategy depending on if you are upgrading Mark level or upgrading Rarity. And the balance will be different if you're trying to get an early-on rarity increase from a low level item before upgrading it to XIV.
Joined January 2009
I noticed this yesterday and thought it was already reported as a bug on Tribble. My memory must be failing me. I can't believe that it's intentional for accelerators to reduce the chance of a rarity upgrade. Are you sure "Major Technology Boost (2x technology points)" halves the TP needed to fill the bar instead of doubling the TP granted by the tech? I would have coded it the other way so that the overflow to the next mark is also doubled. Are you saying that the overflow is halved?
I will not be spending any money on the upgrade system or participating in it in any way unless dilithium costs and time requirements are brought down to a reasonable level so that the Upgrade system makes the game more enjoyable and not a way to drain my wallet and eat up the valuable game time I have trying to get modest upgrades that aren't worth the cost.
If failure to spend money on the upgrade system means that my playing experience declines after Delta Rising goes live, then I'll simply leave the game.
Sincerely,
Andrew
^ This is what I meant. My wording may have been bad. It halves the number of techs you need via the mechanism of doubling the TP granted by each tech you apply. But it doesn't also double the rarity research per tech, so since you're only applying half of the # of techs you only get half of the research points in the process.
Joined January 2009
I can confirm this, and I've also encountered another, pretty significant issue myself.
When upgradingPrefire Chamber consoles, the console will become un-equipable.
This occurs as soon as the upgrade window opens with the console selected, you don't even have to use an upgrade for the bug to occur.
When you try to equip the console, you get the same message as if you did not meet the level requirements, even on a level 50 character, and on items that you just had equipped.
The bug remains if you sell/buyback the item, and persists across characters (confirmed through account bank) as well as accounts (confirmed by buying a Prefire Chamber from the Exchange that entered my inventory unable to be equipped for the same reason.)
Its a pretty big issue, considering that it makes any Prefire Chamber console totally useless.