I'm in the Middle Class of the STO Economy. I'm a Lifer, been here since season 1.1, and have 8 characters. 2 Active, 1 Semi-active, and 5 Retired. (All Caitian/Ferasan plus a Romulan, if you must know) On average I refine about 16,000 Dilithium a day and have at least 5 Million EC to play around with at all times. These are my complaints:...
You are right, you really need to use superior kits from the crafting system for the upgrade system to make sense. That said, it's not that bad - you don't have to craft them yourself, and I really don't expect them to be ridiculously expensive, ultimately. The gate may well be the Very Rare materials, like you said, but consider that, given the high crit chance on the project to craft kits, your 5 Very Rare mats is likely to translate into 11 to 13 kits - enough to bring an item from Mk XII to Mk XIII and make a sizable dent in the upgrade to Mk XIV.
The spreadsheet isn't the issue - I'm not saying the numbers on the spreadsheet aren't real, I'm saying those numbers aren't, to me, unreasonable. The reason I perceive them that way is I compare those numbers to what I would have expected to pay for brand new Mk XIV gear - I feel like I can reasonably ballpark where that cost would be, based on pricing trends, and I find the upgrade cost to be favorable. Insofar as you think I'm comparing the prices to something imaginary, my contention is that YOU are essentially comparing the prices as they are to what you WANT them to be (essentially "free"), which seems to be an equally "unreal" comparison (since we know the upgrades aren't going to be free), and is much less reasonable (since it doesn't, to me, represent a realistic possible option from Cryptic's perspective). I also think saying that the need for the company to make money is only tangentially relevant is, again, an example of what I was saying about how you are focusing on only the player, as if the company wasn't a stakeholder in this discussion. Simply put, it makes no sense to me to start from any premise that doesn't include "Cryptic spent a lot of money on DR, and needs to recoup those costs from players". So, yeah, as far as solid reasoning goes, I'm very sure I'm doing it right.
I'm not sure why you consider branching out and working with other people for mutual benefit to be a "free ride", but you are certainly correct that the explicit reason why I feel confident is that I know I can work with people in my fleet to help get all of us upgraded gear. I think that is a good thing. To your question of "what about the lone wolves", well, being a lone wolf is hard sometimes. I understand that people don't want to be "told how to play", or whatever, but I think that a system that encourages more player interaction is on balance probably better for the game, so throwing it out to suit solo players seems to me to be a net loss, even if the loan wolves don't see it that way.
Don't get me wrong. I enjoy playing with other people. Its an MMO. If I didn't, I'd probably be playing mass effect or skyrim. I just rather interact with other players by playing. Not working. If you don't mind my asking, what arrangement do you have with your fleet?
You are right, you really need to use superior kits from the crafting system for the upgrade system to make sense. That said, it's not that bad - you don't have to craft them yourself, and I really don't expect them to be ridiculously expensive, ultimately. The gate may well be the Very Rare materials, like you said, but consider that, given the high crit chance on the project to craft kits, your 5 Very Rare mats is likely to translate into 11 to 13 kits - enough to bring an item from Mk XII to Mk XIII and make a sizable dent in the upgrade to Mk XIV.
As I said before, my problem is the "Chance to Drop" items. It's like opening a lockbox most of the time and aggravates me to the point of bashing my head against a brick wall when I open 5 and get no Rare mats. (Yes, I really do that IRL)
You are right, you really need to use superior kits from the crafting system for the upgrade system to make sense. That said, it's not that bad - you don't have to craft them yourself, and I really don't expect them to be ridiculously expensive, ultimately. The gate may well be the Very Rare materials, like you said, but consider that, given the high crit chance on the project to craft kits, your 5 Very Rare mats is likely to translate into 11 to 13 kits - enough to bring an item from Mk XII to Mk XIII and make a sizable dent in the upgrade to Mk XIV.
Yeah ONE (sorry for caps. On phone and bold does not work) item.
Thanks for the link.
The prices are a bit much for one who only gets at most 8k dil a day., however, if i was able to make all the needed purchases using the exchange...
As I said before, my problem is the "Chance to Drop" items. It's like opening a lockbox most of the time and aggravates me to the point of bashing my head against a brick wall when I open 5 and get no Rare mats. (Yes, I really do that IRL)
Haha! For your sake they better spruce this up, eh?
Thanks for the link.
The prices are a bit much for one who only gets at most 8k dil a day., however, if i was able to make all the needed purchases using the exchange...
1 mil EC per superior kit is the cheapest I see it being. But the only way to get Mk XIV gear is by upgrading.
not toally down on this but has ne one notice the game becomeing more and more complicated wth 4 times the bugs less play time and more grinding to me this is a iffie step as in reguard to this system. I look forward to tier 6 ships. but this gear leveling i think is over the top and kinda upsurb. with all the rep and now gear and toon leveling it going to take for ever to build a worth wild toon if u even bother to do a toon. People dont want to play for a year to get to a max level state. This console upgrade system is wack and will drive players away from starting new toons
Which is true, but STO is such a n easy game you dont need "decent" gear to beat it.
You don't beat an MMO. Apparently to get top level and grind to give yourself something to do. As opposed to just playing more content. Grinding does not equal content.
not toally down on this but has ne one notice the game becomeing more and more complicated wth 4 times the bugs less play time and more grinding to me this is a iffie step as in reguard to this system. I look forward to tier 6 ships. but this gear leveling i think is over the top and kinda upsurb. with all the rep and now gear and toon leveling it going to take for ever to build a worth wild toon if u even bother to do a toon. People dont want to play for a year to get to a max level state. This console upgrade system is wack and will drive players away from starting new toons
Yes I have noticed this! And might I say...
WELCOME TO MY WORLD!
Ignore the fact that the entire population is one type of cat or another and views you as food rather that an intelligent being and look at our COLORFUL RAINBOWS to distract you from our darker overtones!
not toally down on this but has ne one notice the game becomeing more and more complicated wth 4 times the bugs less play time and more grinding to me this is a iffie step as in reguard to this system. I look forward to tier 6 ships. but this gear leveling i think is over the top and kinda upsurb. with all the rep and now gear and toon leveling it going to take for ever to build a worth wild toon if u even bother to do a toon. People dont want to play for a year to get to a max level state. This console upgrade system is wack and will drive players away from starting new toons
Why can't they make like Ratchet and Clank (like they have before) and make the weapons level as you use them to gain EX?
Ignore the fact that the entire population is one type of cat or another and views you as food rather that an intelligent being and look at our COLORFUL RAINBOWS to distract you from our darker overtones!
LETS BEGIN THE TOUR!!!
I'm assuming you also have the PFUDOR you mentioned earlier? If so, your world is a little creepy...
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
I'm wondering that as well. Will Mk XIV gear be purchasable? If so, where? Fleet? Rep?
Making Mk XIV purchasable would be a mistake and I'm certain they are not going to allow you to do it. Cryptic has been very clear that they consider MK XI and Mk XII items to be the standard endgame items: you can beat any story mission or Normal queue with them. Mk XII very rare will continue to be that 'extra cool and efficient' gear from fleets and reputations that can be used to tackle the new Advanced difficulty (old Elite) or used to steamroll Normal content.
Mk XIII and Mk XIV are still going to be the truly Elite gear now, for doing the new Elite content and minmaxing to be the most efficient build possible. With the new costs, you'll definitely need to do some hardcore stat crunching to justify these upgrades, such as getting the perfect balance between CrtD and CrtH, and so forth. In fact I'm a bit surprised the new missions reward Mk XIII gear, though I imagine that will merely act as a way to introduce people to the higher marks, throw them a bone, so to speak.
I still think, as I had realized before, that the way crafting works will be too currency-gated. I am glad they announced the time and cost-to-quicken will be reduced, which is great, but I still think the issue is more that dilithium is the main ingredient here, not how much of it is involved.
Quick update note:
* In an upcoming patch (not sure when exactly it will hit), the time required for gear to finish its upgrade process should go down significantly. The cost to skip this timer will also go down significantly.
My advice for the time to upgrade gear to the next mark? Keep it simple:
I 10 seconds
II 20 seconds
III 40 seconds
IV 1 minute
V 2 minutes
VI 4 minutes
VII 8 minutes
VIII 10 minutes
IX 20 minutes
X 40 minutes
XI 1 hour
XII 2 hours
XIII 4 hours
XIV (attempting to upgrade quality) 8 hours
I would certainly not be opposed to lowered prices, and the ability to buy Mark XIV gear directly.
However I didn't get any upgrades for my Mark X Purples or Blues when we got the first level ap increase to Vice Admiral. It would seem overly optimistic that they certainly would become free.
The interesting question may however be: What will it cost for a new character to get to Mark XIV? If he first has to buy Mark XII gear from Fleet stores or Reputations, and then ugprade, that will really be very expensive, and it may feel like an unsurmountable obstacle that alienates players. That would to me be a good argument to make upgrades a bit cheaper. All the Dilithium cost in the world will not generate Zen sales if people jump off t he game because they feel it will cost too much to level a character at endgame.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
I would certainly not be opposed to lowered prices, and the ability to buy Mark XIV gear directly.
However I didn't get any upgrades for my Mark X Purples or Blues when we got the first level cap increase to Vice Admiral. It would seem overly optimistic that they certainly would become free.
The interesting question may however be: What will it cost for a new character to get to Mark XIV? If he first has to buy Mark XII gear from Fleet stores or Reputations, and then upgrade, that will really be very expensive, and it may feel like an insurmountable obstacle that alienates players. That would to me be a good argument to make upgrades a bit cheaper. All the Dilithium cost in the world will not generate Zen sales if people jump off t he game because they feel it will cost too much to level a character at endgame.
The cost I think will depend entirely on these so far mystical "Accelerators" ...
My guess is that just like Preservation Wards and Coalescent Wards in Neverwinter (which this system is copied almost directly from) they will be VERY (read: very, very, very, very) rare, random loot drops and/or mission rewards ... Or of course, in true PWE fashion ... Purchasable with Zen.
The cost I think will depend entirely on these so far mystical "Accelerators" ...
My guess is that just like Preservation Wards and Coalescent Wards in Neverwinter (which this system is copied almost directly from) they will be VERY (read: very, very, very, very) rare, random loot drops and/or mission rewards ... Or of course, in true PWE fashion ... Purchasable with Zen.
I can tell you from my testing on Tribble so far that you can get Accelerators by opening the R&D Packs from the C-Store/exchange. Not sure if they will be attainable any other way.
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
One other important note, oh glorious testers: When you upgrade an item the powers UI doesn't always refresh immediately. If you upgrade something and it looks like its values didn't change, move it to a different inventory slot and see if they update.
Nitpicking is a time-honored tradition of science fiction. Asking your readers not to worry about the "little things" is like asking a dog not to sniff at people's crotches. If there's something that appears to violate natural laws, then you can expect someone's going to point it out. That's just the way things are.
Comments
I wish. Well if I'm not grinding and I'm not paying. Than I'm doing nothing.
You are right, you really need to use superior kits from the crafting system for the upgrade system to make sense. That said, it's not that bad - you don't have to craft them yourself, and I really don't expect them to be ridiculously expensive, ultimately. The gate may well be the Very Rare materials, like you said, but consider that, given the high crit chance on the project to craft kits, your 5 Very Rare mats is likely to translate into 11 to 13 kits - enough to bring an item from Mk XII to Mk XIII and make a sizable dent in the upgrade to Mk XIV.
Don't get me wrong. I enjoy playing with other people. Its an MMO. If I didn't, I'd probably be playing mass effect or skyrim. I just rather interact with other players by playing. Not working. If you don't mind my asking, what arrangement do you have with your fleet?
As I said before, my problem is the "Chance to Drop" items. It's like opening a lockbox most of the time and aggravates me to the point of bashing my head against a brick wall when I open 5 and get no Rare mats. (Yes, I really do that IRL)
Yeah ONE (sorry for caps. On phone and bold does not work) item.
Thanks for the link.
The prices are a bit much for one who only gets at most 8k dil a day., however, if i was able to make all the needed purchases using the exchange...
Haha! For your sake they better spruce this up, eh?
1 mil EC per superior kit is the cheapest I see it being. But the only way to get Mk XIV gear is by upgrading.
You don't beat an MMO. Apparently to get top level and grind to give yourself something to do. As opposed to just playing more content. Grinding does not equal content.
Yes I have noticed this! And might I say...
WELCOME TO MY WORLD!
Ignore the fact that the entire population is one type of cat or another and views you as food rather that an intelligent being and look at our COLORFUL RAINBOWS to distract you from our darker overtones!
LETS BEGIN THE TOUR!!!
Why can't they make like Ratchet and Clank (like they have before) and make the weapons level as you use them to gain EX?
Oh wow! That's not a bad idea at all! I mean... They are doing that for our ships, why not our items as well?
I'm assuming you also have the PFUDOR you mentioned earlier? If so, your world is a little creepy...
:P
True. But I have yet to see content come out without some means of grinding in it.
I know why.... Because that wont make them money. That's the only plausible reasoning I can see.
Wow, and that's coming from a guy whose name has circus in it. And I thought those were creepy
Just another average day in the life of a Furry I'm afraid...
Sadly my time on this Forum is up... For today. I leave you with a relaxing song: MitiS - Written Emotions
Making Mk XIV purchasable would be a mistake and I'm certain they are not going to allow you to do it. Cryptic has been very clear that they consider MK XI and Mk XII items to be the standard endgame items: you can beat any story mission or Normal queue with them. Mk XII very rare will continue to be that 'extra cool and efficient' gear from fleets and reputations that can be used to tackle the new Advanced difficulty (old Elite) or used to steamroll Normal content.
Mk XIII and Mk XIV are still going to be the truly Elite gear now, for doing the new Elite content and minmaxing to be the most efficient build possible. With the new costs, you'll definitely need to do some hardcore stat crunching to justify these upgrades, such as getting the perfect balance between CrtD and CrtH, and so forth. In fact I'm a bit surprised the new missions reward Mk XIII gear, though I imagine that will merely act as a way to introduce people to the higher marks, throw them a bone, so to speak.
I still think, as I had realized before, that the way crafting works will be too currency-gated. I am glad they announced the time and cost-to-quicken will be reduced, which is great, but I still think the issue is more that dilithium is the main ingredient here, not how much of it is involved.
My advice for the time to upgrade gear to the next mark? Keep it simple:
I 10 seconds
II 20 seconds
III 40 seconds
IV 1 minute
V 2 minutes
VI 4 minutes
VII 8 minutes
VIII 10 minutes
IX 20 minutes
X 40 minutes
XI 1 hour
XII 2 hours
XIII 4 hours
XIV (attempting to upgrade quality) 8 hours
That is a lot of grinding... Typical.
My character Tsin'xing
Are they both purple? I was talking about the superior (purple) ones.
However I didn't get any upgrades for my Mark X Purples or Blues when we got the first level ap increase to Vice Admiral. It would seem overly optimistic that they certainly would become free.
The interesting question may however be: What will it cost for a new character to get to Mark XIV? If he first has to buy Mark XII gear from Fleet stores or Reputations, and then ugprade, that will really be very expensive, and it may feel like an unsurmountable obstacle that alienates players. That would to me be a good argument to make upgrades a bit cheaper. All the Dilithium cost in the world will not generate Zen sales if people jump off t he game because they feel it will cost too much to level a character at endgame.
The cost I think will depend entirely on these so far mystical "Accelerators" ...
My guess is that just like Preservation Wards and Coalescent Wards in Neverwinter (which this system is copied almost directly from) they will be VERY (read: very, very, very, very) rare, random loot drops and/or mission rewards ... Or of course, in true PWE fashion ... Purchasable with Zen.
I can tell you from my testing on Tribble so far that you can get Accelerators by opening the R&D Packs from the C-Store/exchange. Not sure if they will be attainable any other way.
Facebook Page: Don Burrito
Twitter: @DonBurrito143
I would rather not have to wait an entire week when that quality upgrade fails 7 times in a row.
Joined January 2009
Is there a fix on the way for that? :P
Joined January 2009