In terms of canon, when an intellectual property has significant hallmarks that identify the intellectual property, any advancement in the IP general has a lineage to it that maintains the connection to what came before it. IE: Constitution -> Excelsior -> Ambassador -> Galaxy
In terms of design (having an engineering background myself) generally design isn't completely and totally different for something of a common purpose. For example, let's say you design a pre-stressed box girder bridge. It has a particular look. Now 100 years later, another engineer replaces your bridge. His specifications are to replace in kind, IE with a pre-stressed box girder bridge, but his end result is actually a cable suspension bridge. It would be incorrect to call that replacement bridge a pre-stressed box girder, when the design of it clearly is a cable suspension.
Therefore design lineage doesn't generally go Constitution -> Excelsior -> Flying Ice Scraper.
It simply doesn't fit.
And to me, that is ugly. Its one thing to give a new, modernized and updated appearance. But completely changing the design lineage doesn't make it the same.
Someone tell me when every ship had to follow the previous lineage of past ships?
Starfleet's intelligence service is not Section 31. Section 31 is a rogue "agency", that does mean it's not government sanctioned or part of the Federation or Starfleet.
Stealth design = the best way to TRIBBLE all the principles of the Starfleet and Federation.
At which point did the starfleet turn into an organization that had to rely on coward and treacherous methods?
If Cryptic tags them that way I could buy that reason for their non-Fed look. S31 are sneaky TRIBBLE and also 'allows' the fact that they all cloak. But if they say they are new basic/standard Starfleet designs, then no.
That could be quite difficult to explain to yourself if you dont RP that youre S31. Theres quite a few missions in the early part of the game where you go head to head with S31. Personally me and my crew (RP wise) are a bit hawkish but we definitely arent fringe shadow criminals like S31. If these ships are S31 inspired then its even more reason for me to hope for other Tactical Escort Skins to be used on this thing.
The criticism of those Fed designs is harsh, but I'm sorry to say, it's fair. Those do not look like Federation ships. Those do not look like Star Trek.
For us to be shoehorned into T6, then for it to be so visually unappealing is tough to take. I don't want to fall behind, but I also won't be caught dead flying one of those things. This is bad, bad news. Sorry.
I was kind of open to buying a T6 but now these final images have come in, nope. I'm out. Utter garbage and just too far away from the Trek look. Unless they are willing to add some new parts and skins on, they are just too visually unappealing to waste cash on.
Stealth design = the best way to TRIBBLE all the principles of the Starfleet and Federation.
At which point did the starfleet turn into an organization that had to rely on coward and treacherous methods?
I agree.
Frankly, I am appalled at the new designs. These are not Star Trek ships, and this is exactly what I feared would happen going into this new expansion. Every single one of these ships comes with a cloaking device.
Gene Roddenberry indicated in various interviews that "our heroes don't sneak around", indicating that the Federation made a conscious decision to not develop cloaking technology.
Romulans and Klingons were the antagonists in much of Trek history because they represented political powers of the era that were in opposition to personal freedoms and liberty. They were The Bad Guys. They snuck around and behaved deceptively, not Starfleet.
I like it, hopefully it translates well into the game from concept art
These are the Voyages on the STO forum, the final frontier. Our continuing mission: to explore Pretentious Posts, to seek out new Overreactions and Misinformation , to boldly experience Cynicism like no man has before.......
THX FOR MAKING A SUPER UGLY SHIP FOR THE FEDS FOR THE NEW TIER 6 CLASS SHIPS! PLEASE LET ME GAG SOME MORE, CHOKE, CHOKE, CHOKE! IS IT NOT POSSIBLE TO MAKE A GREAT NEW SEX LOOKING CONSTITUTION CLASS SHIP? THEN NOT TRIBBLE IT UP BY LIMITING IT TO MINOR TACTICAL STATIONS!
I GUESS THE FED'S HAVE NO CLASS WHEN IT COME TO SHIPS!!!:mad:
ANOTHER SHIP I WONT BUY.......................................
The Avenger, the Vesta, the Odyssey, the Tempest, the Chimera and many others are original ships that fulfill the promise of Federation design. They are original and new, but aspire to include classic styling and elements. While I don't necessarily like every one of them personally, most have been beautifully constructed and well thought out; certainly, none have offended my senses like these ships have.
Frankly, I am appalled at the new designs. These are not Star Trek ships, and this is exactly what I feared would happen going into this new expansion. Every single one of these ships comes with a cloaking device.
Gene Roddenberry indicated in various interviews that "our heroes don't sneak around", indicating that the Federation made a conscious decision to not develop cloaking technology.
Romulans and Klingons were the antagonists in much of Trek history because they represented political powers of the era that were in opposition to personal freedoms and liberty. They were The Bad Guys. They snuck around and behaved deceptively, not Starfleet.
Gene broke that rule himself. The ONLY reason the feds didn't have cloak was treaty. They chose Peace over advantage during TNG. by STO there is no logical reason to use the treaty since the governemnt it was signed by with the fed is nolonger recognized.
Now that I know the names of the ships I can see why theyre the color scheme they are currently. Theyre apparently Stealth Ships..If you activate Masked Signature Ability (Boff Ability) Your ship goes 'Dark'. Which these ships remind me of.
But they do have a very un-Star Trek feel to them for sure. My assumption is that the storyline calls for us to be 'Stealthily' moving about the Delta Quadrant. Which doesnt seem very Fed like at all.
The federation MUST adapt to new threats that are upon them. No negotiating with every undine ship that comes our way, no more opening hailing frequencies before battle. We identify threats, we neutralize threats, in a sense, to survive we must become a military. And when you think about it, what is so gosh darn bad about that?
UGH WHAT THE HECK DID I JUST SEE?!?! My eyes, omg my eyes. Sorry to you fans of this ship, each to his own but that looks so fugly imo. That's my opinion though, I"m glad you all like it, now please be glad I love the look of the new intel ships.
Hmm it's logical that first ships to go into new hostile territory (Borg, Kazons) would be intelligence and combat recon vessels and only then dedicated combat and patrol ships, so that part is ok. Why new fed ships don't have windows? Well think for the moment, starfleet placed windows on there starships because they were exploration vessels in first place but combat and intell ships don't need them.
Frankly, I am appalled at the new designs. These are not Star Trek ships, and this is exactly what I feared would happen going into this new expansion. Every single one of these ships comes with a cloaking device.
Gene Roddenberry indicated in various interviews that "our heroes don't sneak around", indicating that the Federation made a conscious decision to not develop cloaking technology.
Romulans and Klingons were the antagonists in much of Trek history because they represented political powers of the era that were in opposition to personal freedoms and liberty. They were The Bad Guys. They snuck around and behaved deceptively, not Starfleet.
Cryptic doesn't care.
FED being the good guys and having principles is too uncool for them.:rolleyes:
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
You seem to have missed the part where they said that any current ship could do the coming content.
^^
Anyway, the ships certainly are a departure from current Starfleet ships, even the cryptic designed ones.
At the very least, they aren't, well, uninspired like the Klingons and romulan ships.
At some point, departures from the norm are good and every time i look a the avenger i think that they need start to stretch their legs a bit when it comes to fed ships, because coming up with a new geometry seems to be more their style and area of capability than trying to keep true to established doctrine. Yes they can recreate on-tv designs well enough, but when they do designs themselves.. well, look at all the options for the current ship lineup. Is anyone using those ship parts? Remember the Galaxy options? Ranging from puke to outright vomit? The Venture is an example of fed design gone right. We have not have had much of that lately. Just.. the.. avenger... *gah i have to vomit now....
The New t6 ships do not look horrible or something, just different from what we expect in starfleet ships.
These intelligence ships? They have a tholian look to them. Can't help myself....
LORE BOMB!!!!!
So they are Intel ships, right? Spy work and stuff. Including Sabotage?
If spys and perhaps section 31 are rocking around the universe doing... stuff..... i sure as hell would want them to use ships that do not scream "STAR FLEET!!!!!!!!!!!!" when they do it.
For intelligence vessels, such radical departures in look and geometry are actually not a bad thing.
I didnt miss anything. Just because you can use something in that content doesnt mean it was intended for it. Since there is no talk of Free T6 ships and the only ones readily available is in this pack. Its quite obvious the Feds are supposed to be flying through this content with their special T6 - Delta Rising Content Tron Ships.
You seemed to miss the point that just because youre being allowed to do something. Doesnt mean the Devs vision of things were that way. If they knew they could force T6 ships down our throats and we'd abandon our T5 ships in a heartbeat theyd never bother with Upgrade Tokens.
Lore bomb? Really? You didnt drop any knowledge on me here. Sorry to disappoint. But unless we're being assigned to some Special Intelligence Division in general Starfleet doesnt operate in the shadows. We're supposed to believe waves of these Stealth Ships are being rolled out into the Delta Quadrant and that its normal operating procedures? If Voyager went out of its way to announce its presence in the Delta Quadrant, fully knowing they were alone without support. Theres very little you or anyone else can say to convince me an entire Fleet of Starfleet Vessels supported through the Dyson Spheres and a direct link to Alpha/Beta Quadrants needs to be stealthy.
I just want to add that these look far too polygonal for my tastes.
The Klingon and Romulan ships work but the Fed ships need curves, I expect significant pushback.
The Guardian works more for me, particularly if it can be mixed and matched with the Galaxy or Ambassador parts.
But the Fed intelligence ships look like they have a lower polycount budget. Round out those corners and edges and maybe they'll be more workable. But it strikes me as a repeat of design mistakes that I thought this game moved beyond years ago.
The Odyssey, the Venture, and other newer ships generally tried to get away from the bulky/jagged/armored look, to their credit. I don't see why Cryptic is going back there now. Stealthy ships should be sleeker, not more jagged, in my opinion.
Agreed. The Scryer is particularly guilty of this I think; it looks like they put so much into the soft curves on the inside of that ring, that they only had a handful of polygons left for the rest of the ship.
Cryptic doesn't care.
FED being the good guys and having principles is too uncool for them.:rolleyes:
Who needs principles? We need advantages! - and with that attitude, Cryptic perfectly hits the current Zeitgeist.
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Comments
Someone tell me when every ship had to follow the previous lineage of past ships?
Starfleet's intelligence service is not Section 31. Section 31 is a rogue "agency", that does mean it's not government sanctioned or part of the Federation or Starfleet.
Starfleet's intelligence service is called "Starfleet Intelligence".
At which point did the starfleet turn into an organization that had to rely on coward and treacherous methods?
... which makes me want to buy them more to spite you all. I like 'em!
That could be quite difficult to explain to yourself if you dont RP that youre S31. Theres quite a few missions in the early part of the game where you go head to head with S31. Personally me and my crew (RP wise) are a bit hawkish but we definitely arent fringe shadow criminals like S31. If these ships are S31 inspired then its even more reason for me to hope for other Tactical Escort Skins to be used on this thing.
My thoughts too. Not worth the money at all. Will stick with the t5 upgrades.
I think I finally found something that makes the Typhoon look good...
I was kind of open to buying a T6 but now these final images have come in, nope. I'm out. Utter garbage and just too far away from the Trek look. Unless they are willing to add some new parts and skins on, they are just too visually unappealing to waste cash on.
Hah, than you haven't seen the Galaxy alternate variants for the standard Galaxy (not Retrofit or Dreadnought).
If you managed to succesfully excise them from your mind. Sorry for reminding you.
I agree but I think there are some folks out there convinced that looks goofy who want everything aerodynamic looking.
I agree.
Frankly, I am appalled at the new designs. These are not Star Trek ships, and this is exactly what I feared would happen going into this new expansion. Every single one of these ships comes with a cloaking device.
Gene Roddenberry indicated in various interviews that "our heroes don't sneak around", indicating that the Federation made a conscious decision to not develop cloaking technology.
Romulans and Klingons were the antagonists in much of Trek history because they represented political powers of the era that were in opposition to personal freedoms and liberty. They were The Bad Guys. They snuck around and behaved deceptively, not Starfleet.
Original Ambassador Class concept. This was also the Ent-C model used in the TNG Briefing room.
I like it, hopefully it translates well into the game from concept art
I GUESS THE FED'S HAVE NO CLASS WHEN IT COME TO SHIPS!!!:mad:
ANOTHER SHIP I WONT BUY.......................................
Oddy has fanmade but otherwise correct.
Gene broke that rule himself. The ONLY reason the feds didn't have cloak was treaty. They chose Peace over advantage during TNG. by STO there is no logical reason to use the treaty since the governemnt it was signed by with the fed is nolonger recognized.
I'll wait for a T6 Excel if there will be one, otherwise I'm staying at T5-U.
The federation MUST adapt to new threats that are upon them. No negotiating with every undine ship that comes our way, no more opening hailing frequencies before battle. We identify threats, we neutralize threats, in a sense, to survive we must become a military. And when you think about it, what is so gosh darn bad about that?
UGH WHAT THE HECK DID I JUST SEE?!?! My eyes, omg my eyes. Sorry to you fans of this ship, each to his own but that looks so fugly imo. That's my opinion though, I"m glad you all like it, now please be glad I love the look of the new intel ships.
Another pic
FED being the good guys and having principles is too uncool for them.:rolleyes:
Aside from the not Trek-ness of it (which doesn't bother me) I can't say that the combination is terrible, it sounds neat.
Too bad it doesn't come with double hangars for new stealth fighters. I'd buy the pack right now! XD
DeltaFox
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I didnt miss anything. Just because you can use something in that content doesnt mean it was intended for it. Since there is no talk of Free T6 ships and the only ones readily available is in this pack. Its quite obvious the Feds are supposed to be flying through this content with their special T6 - Delta Rising Content Tron Ships.
You seemed to miss the point that just because youre being allowed to do something. Doesnt mean the Devs vision of things were that way. If they knew they could force T6 ships down our throats and we'd abandon our T5 ships in a heartbeat theyd never bother with Upgrade Tokens.
Lore bomb? Really? You didnt drop any knowledge on me here. Sorry to disappoint. But unless we're being assigned to some Special Intelligence Division in general Starfleet doesnt operate in the shadows. We're supposed to believe waves of these Stealth Ships are being rolled out into the Delta Quadrant and that its normal operating procedures? If Voyager went out of its way to announce its presence in the Delta Quadrant, fully knowing they were alone without support. Theres very little you or anyone else can say to convince me an entire Fleet of Starfleet Vessels supported through the Dyson Spheres and a direct link to Alpha/Beta Quadrants needs to be stealthy.
Agreed. The Scryer is particularly guilty of this I think; it looks like they put so much into the soft curves on the inside of that ring, that they only had a handful of polygons left for the rest of the ship.
Who needs principles? We need advantages! - and with that attitude, Cryptic perfectly hits the current Zeitgeist.
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