This is ridiculous on a few points which have probably already been made.
First having T6 ships will be good no doubt but should we have T5U ships, Fleet ships and Upgraded fleet ships between Tiers the only thing i can see that doing is increasing the cost of T6 ships this is what i fear is going to happen.
T5 ship 2000-2500 zen
Fleet mod 500 zen
Ship upgrade 500-1000 zen
So to get a fleet ship and upgrade it would cost between 3000-4000 zen so would cryptic sell a T6 ship cheaper than a upgraded fleet one probably not if the T6 ship costs 3000 zen i wouldn't have a problem with the upgrade option but at least until now ship cost progression seems to have increase by 500 zen per tier.
What i would like to see cryptic do is (this will probably not be popular) remove fleet ships or at least have the benefits worked in differently so you won't have multiple levelled ships between tiers so when you hit the delta rising missions your ship gets a free upgrade to T5U. Then at least you could work all ships into that Lobi, lockbox, special Events & Bundle packs then all ships would get the free upgrade and so you don't loose any investment in fleet progression when your Fleet hits the required tier you get that tier's ship benefits to match up to current fleet ships, (this will never happen i know) Also will we get T6 fleet ships will we get T7 ships one day would we get the option to upgrade the old tier ships then the question is how might that work into the cost of this and future ship tiers and again should we have ships and upgraded ships between those tiers which could end up only drastically increasing this and those of future tier ships cost.
This is ridiculous on a few points which have probably already been made.
First having T6 ships will be good no doubt but should we have T5U ships, Fleet ships and Upgraded fleet ships between Tiers the only thing i can see that doing is increasing the cost of T6 ships this is what i fear is going to happen.
T5 ship 2000-2500 zen
Fleet mod 500 zen
Ship upgrade 500-1000 zen
So to get a fleet ship and upgrade it would cost between 3000-4000 zen so would cryptic sell a T6 ship cheaper than a upgraded fleet one probably not if the T6 ship costs 3000 zen i wouldn't have a problem with the upgrade option but at least until now ship cost progression seems to have increase by 500 zen per tier.
What i would like to see cryptic do is (this will probably not be popular) remove fleet ships or at least have the benefits worked in differently so you won't have multiple levelled ships between tiers so when you hit the delta rising missions your ship gets a free upgrade to T5U. Then at least you could work all ships into that Lobi, lockbox, special Events & Bundle packs then all ships would get the free upgrade and so you don't loose any investment in fleet progression when your Fleet hits the required tier you get that tier's ship benefits to match up to current fleet ships, (this will never happen i know) Also will we get T6 fleet ships will we get T7 ships one day would we get the option to upgrade the old tier ships then the question is how might that work into the cost of this and future ship tiers and again should we have ships and upgraded ships between those tiers which could end up only drastically increasing this and those of future tier ships cost.
That's my 2 Zen on the matter.
I have to agree jack. What gets me it seems from the blog that the Lobi Store and the Lockbox ships get the free upgrade. Oh WAIT, I HAVE AN IDEA! Let's all buy the Mirror Universe ships off the exchange, then when DR kicks in we have upgraded Mirror Universe Starships.
I have to agree jack. What gets me it seems from the blog that the Lobi Store and the Lockbox ships get the free upgrade. Oh WAIT, I HAVE AN IDEA! Let's all buy the Mirror Universe ships off the exchange, then when DR kicks in we have upgraded Mirror Universe Starships.
Uh oh, Perfectworld has a loop hole!!!!!!!! XD
Yeah, that actually make sense! We all know we, at Cryptic/PWE, don't like things to make sense. So we will have to deny your idea. See you in-game
actually if you think about how they've done things in the past they could have just
as easiliy done a T6 delta retrofit of all the tier 5/5.5 ships and charged full price for
them, as well as introducing thier new T6 ship lines, people are too busy screaming
at the way they have chosen to do this and havn't really considerd the many other
options they could have taken to pay for this expansion
Actually, I would have liked a T6 Mogai Retrofit very much.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
This is ridiculous on a few points which have probably already been made.
First having T6 ships will be good no doubt but should we have T5U ships, Fleet ships and Upgraded fleet ships between Tiers the only thing i can see that doing is increasing the cost of T6 ships this is what i fear is going to happen.
T5 ship 2000-2500 zen
Fleet mod 500 zen
Ship upgrade 500-1000 zen
So to get a fleet ship and upgrade it would cost between 3000-4000 zen so would cryptic sell a T6 ship cheaper than a upgraded fleet one probably not if the T6 ship costs 3000 zen i wouldn't have a problem with the upgrade option but at least until now ship cost progression seems to have increase by 500 zen per tier.
What i would like to see cryptic do is (this will probably not be popular) remove fleet ships or at least have the benefits worked in differently so you won't have multiple levelled ships between tiers so when you hit the delta rising missions your ship gets a free upgrade to T5U. Then at least you could work all ships into that Lobi, lockbox, special Events & Bundle packs then all ships would get the free upgrade and so you don't loose any investment in fleet progression when your Fleet hits the required tier you get that tier's ship benefits to match up to current fleet ships, (this will never happen i know) Also will we get T6 fleet ships will we get T7 ships one day would we get the option to upgrade the old tier ships then the question is how might that work into the cost of this and future ship tiers and again should we have ships and upgraded ships between those tiers which could end up only drastically increasing this and those of future tier ships cost.
That's my 2 Zen on the matter.
I already spent money on my fleet ship. Why would I want to get rid of it? Aside from that, you make a good point. The whole sub-tier ships thing is confusing as hell.
Okay, the reason why you are fighting a war on three fronts is because of the fact. When you recite something. It first off has to be relative to the business of Perfectworld running as a company. I understand yes you are quoting the means of a business and also the relation to the upgrade fees. But what makes it difficult for you is this:
You continue in your relentless preaching of loss of profits for Perfectworld. Which might be relative still is open to conjecture when Virusdancer already debunked your all knowing theory on that one.
You also continued rambling on the business regarding Perfectworld which by what the past five pages clearly was "Warping" the conversation of Perfectworld as a company and away from the thread, that it even make Q yawn at it and turn you into a Mariachi Band. So sorry Dareau but you brought that upon yourself.
Lets see here, how many times have you referred someone or even the people on this forum as "stupid" already? Oh wait!
Maybe - the level of stupidity in this thread - overall - is grating on me. Maybe because it seems I'm fighting on three fronts and all three are in "ignore / ad hominem / write off / just give me what I want" mode...
There we go, I am not surprised even a Moderator looked at this one. Check Please!
Yes, this front is all about charging for T5 starship upgrades. Those in my point #1, of which you seem to be a member, firmly believe that there should be no charge for the upgrade...
You take context and certainly like to label and sterotype people solely on the fact that when someone states an opinion that you don't like you have to label them as, "of which you seem to be a member". Honestly this is not looking good on your part.
Including taking such a conversation and turning it into a personal crusade which you feel you have to get the last word on and flood the forums about as well.
Got it. Counter argument to my Front #1. Because Perfect World turned a profit last quarter, and therefore must have money, they are supposed to give us all sorts of free stuff, free games, and not need to make money until they're practically broke again.
As this seems to be the case, after three tries, then I cannot glean any more information from you, and this debate is going nowhere. By all means, preach on about getting free upgrades, just don't be surprised when it don't happen.
Front #2:
T5U vs T6.
As I think of it instead of just firing off in response, some of the numbers I'm coming up with are conjecture, based primarily somewhat on previous examples done, game history, but based a lot off of this:
Yeah I do give credit you are throwing out numbers, but numbers that have we even heard more from Perfectworld about Tier 6 starships? Nope! So basically all previous data from say oh Season 6 to now is all more or less a weatherman's forecast on the weather for the next 2 months based upon relative phenomenon for the past 3 years. So basically it's a TRIBBLE shoot at this point Dareau.
Until "Perfectworld" confirms it your argument is flooding the forums and preaching "what if's".
Yep. I'll (readmit) conjecture - that the difference between a T6 at 50 and the T6 at 60 will be +10%. It just seems like such a nice number, and reflective of the "historical" precedent set with T5 to T5.5. The one number hinted at in the blog itself shows a 35,000 to 40,000 hull point growth, which is more akin to a 7% boost, and advertised to be an example only, exact numbers have yet to be determined...
Oh look you just admitted conjecture, how cute....................at this point right now you want to argue all the technical specs regarding the ships to try to show how much of an authority you are on STO. Please do everyone a favor, if you love STO and Perfectworld? Either talk to your Stock Broker about investing? Or just get up from the computer and work for them.
Again lingering the conversation, making conjecture, and claiming all points are valid and
"canon". Illogical.
And the first reply to this completely misread my argument and attempted to cite weapon types (canon vs cannon). I attempted clarification, and now I'm shoehorning ships / game / storyline into levels of canon that attempts to match the shows / movies. Yep, complete misunderstandings do tend to roil the old blood here some.
With this hopefully understood, let me re-phrase the whole argument attempting to avoid the word "Canon".
If you simply want to avoid ~Whispers~ the word "canon". You shouldn't have slinged it around like it was a Jerry Springer Bleep Fest when you made your arguments. Wait you have no one to blame for that except yourself.
Drifting away from Thread.
Conjecture aside, arguments about the use of a word aside. The core of this argument comes down to explaining why I infer Cryptic is insisting on T5U vs T6. After deftly ignoring the core of the argument yet again - I see not a single part about design differences in the section has made the transition into quotes and/or is discussed. To me, much like point #1 above, you have a belief that a certain thing should happen, and that these things better happen with no rhyme or reason other than your belief. While your opinion is welcome, do note that "constructive criticism" begins with reasons behind the belief as well.
Front #3:
Dispose of T5U altogether and give everyone a trip (free or paid) to T6. This front I shoot down with a logic chain of "since day 1 it was told to us that we're getting separate but equal T5U and T6. Also, if you notice, all of T5 is canon, semi-canon, and made to look canon starships, where canon is an adjective that describes the fact that the ships - for the most part - look like something that was on screen and/or could have been on screen." Not whether or not the Vesta became "hard canon" or that a future Prime Universe TV series set after 2410 would have to reference the Romulan Republic and it's Scimitar Flagship type canon.
Again with the Canon, Dareau, Dareau. Okay, the only reason again why if anything is canon is because again "CBS owns all controlling, trademark, and copyrights to Star Trek itself. Yes the own the label, logo, and name." So if for one moment Perfectworld did something, "Outside the norms?" Then CBS could have them for dinner. Understand it, Perfectworld is on their leash. So actually your arguments about Bean Counters and PWE Overlords is that actually well Perfectworld is servants to the CBS Overloads. Really you need to take a break.
Does this mean that said gamer would, potentially, have to pay twice, one full price T6 entry and a second - minor - payment that hopefully would only cover the difference between prior investment(s) and the "full price of T6"? Yep. But then again, only half of the T5 stuff that can come "for free" is "screen or story" based, specifically the Advanced Escort (Prometheus), DSSV (Titan), and Assault Cruiser, Sovereign Model. Flying any other "from screen or story or even looks like a screen" ship meant a cash investment to begin with, so the precedent to pay is already there...
Again, lengthing on and on about canon and comparison to T5 and T6. Really you must have an obsession with Canon. Now about half the stuff being free? Okay lets look at this.
1: Lock Box Keys= Purchased off Exchange IF you have the EC. Otherwise Pay Zen for it.
2: Fleet Ships= Fleet Modules and Fleet Credits as well as Dylithium. Okay so Fleet Modules can be purchased from Exchange but again IF you have the EC. Fleet Credits that would be earned through Fleet Projects, which in turn is earned through joining a fleet. So that means grinding, yup that's "Sweat Equity". Nope not free so far.
3: Z Store Starships: Only purchased through the Z Store.
Well let me say this YOU must be one of THEM that peffer to tell everyone to shove it and just "Pay or Grind", that "an MMO cannot exist as a Non-Monetization System", and to show your Star Trek Patriotic Duty to this game, "Cite statistics" to show how much you know more than everyone else, get the last word, lengthen an argument which by this point again several times lead away from the thread. And still call Perfectworld, "PWE Overlords" and "Beancounters" just to make a point? And may I also add overly obsessive about STO being "canon" when you contradicted yourself or well procrastinate in this case citing, "Trying to avoid using the word canon".
Your words, bolded, by me, for emphasis. "MMO Cannot exist as a non-monetization system". Finally, at least an actual semi-fact and/or clear point that can be debated...
As far as I know, in my time as a gamer, there's three models to making income on a computer game. Model #1: Traditional pay for the game up front, pay till the servers go belly up, perhaps tack on extra income via expansions and/or DLC (a semi-modern semi-expansion). Model #2, and the "Typical" MMO system: Pay for the game up front and/or pay a monthly subscription fee. Model #3: Free to pay with tons of monetized Micro (and freqently "macro") transactions.
STO has taken Model 3 to heart, after Model 2 caused Atari to sell off Cryptic because it wasn't making enough to keep Atari afloat. If you have a better proposal than one of the three above, I'd love to hear it - this is, after all, the way a debate occurs - I state one stance, you state another, and we discuss the merits of both. I've been trying to be "open minded" for solutions to help you get your desires, because unlike a high school debate, I'm not looking to "win the argument for points", I'm looking to refine something to the point that Cryptic has to look at it in a logical manner and, perhaps, implement it. Could you please elaborate on this position?
Yup enough said you need something more constructive to do with yourself. Check Please!
I want to think I have tried to. As I said, I'm trying, however obtusely and stubbornly, to learn what makes these arguments tick. And it seems that I have.
While I'm getting nowhere with front 2, it seems that I have found something to work with over the whole monetization thing. I leave the floor open to you to expound on how you would propose that "free stuffs now" would lead to greater benefits to Cryptic, and by extension PWE, than my stubborn defense of the F2P/Micro-Macro transaction model.
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
im a Scotsman so i love to save my money where i can. that isnt to say that i
mind paying out when i feel there is good value to be had or justification for it.
i have, as yet, seen nothing anyone has posted here, that has swayed my
opinion or acceptance of this upgrade system . the expansion needs paying for,
the way they intend to do it is, in my opinion, very reasonable. my only concern,
if any, is how much it will cost me, not that it will. it makes no sense, from a
business perspective, even from an in-game storyline perspective, to upgrade old
ships to the exact same standard as the new. if the olds ship had everything the
new ships did, what incentive would there be to buy T6 ships? and from a storyline
perspective, these are the next line in ships, newly devloped and built specifically to
deal with this new threat. it is highly possible that in real terms (well as real as it can
be in a game) much of the new technology and advances may well be impossible or
impractical to retrofit.
im a Scotsman so i love to save my money where i can. that isnt to say that i
mind paying out when i feel there is good value to be had or justification for it.
i have, as yet, seen nothing anyone has posted here, that has swayed my
opinion or acceptance of this upgrade system . the expansion needs paying for,
the way they intend to do it is, in my opinion, very reasonable. my only concern,
if any, is how much it will cost me, not that it will. it makes no sense, from a
business perspective, even from an in-game storyline perspective, to upgrade old
ships to the exact same standard as the new. if the olds ship had everything the
new ships did, what incentive would there be to buy T6 ships? and from a storyline
perspective, these are the next line in ships, newly devloped and built specifically to
deal with this new threat. it is highly possible that in real terms (well as real as it can
be in a game) much of the new technology and advances may well be impossible or
impractical to retrofit.
Bottomline is, you agree with what has been proposed. Which means there's no need for you to post on the forums at all. Passive acceptance goes farther than getting involved and having people consider you a fanboy and/or defender. (not that I think that).
Hear me out a second. Let's say you wanted to paint your walls of your bedroom green. So you go to a paint store but all they have is pink. So you either compromise and paint your walls pink, or you go to another paint store. Grinding (pay to grind)=Pink. I don't want to paint my walls pink. I've wasted enough time in the Cryptic paint store already. Stop the grinding and needless nickel-n-diming or I'm going to another store. Can you understand that much Cryptic/PWE?
So I got a kar'fi and a fed dreadnought that I paid zen and I have to pay more zen to get them upgraded but the dyson destroyer I got for free is upgraded for free? What backwards logic is that? If you paid real money you got to pay more real money but if you just happened to be here and got it for free, no charge?!? What BS!
Bottomline is, you agree with what has been proposed. Which means there's no need for you to post on the forums at all. Passive acceptance goes farther than getting involved and having people consider you a fanboy and/or defender. (not that I think that).
Yes, well, as a counterpoint, your incessant spamming of your hatred of the devs's decision makes you look like you post here for no other reason than to annoy people who like the game.
Got it. Counter argument to my Front #1. Because Perfect World turned a profit last quarter, and therefore must have money, they are supposed to give us all sorts of free stuff, free games, and not need to make money until they're practically broke again.
As this seems to be the case, after three tries, then I cannot glean any more information from you, and this debate is going nowhere. By all means, preach on about getting free upgrades, just don't be surprised when it don't happen.
Conjecture aside, arguments about the use of a word aside. The core of this argument comes down to explaining why I infer Cryptic is insisting on T5U vs T6. After deftly ignoring the core of the argument yet again - I see not a single part about design differences in the section has made the transition into quotes and/or is discussed. To me, much like point #1 above, you have a belief that a certain thing should happen, and that these things better happen with no rhyme or reason other than your belief. While your opinion is welcome, do note that "constructive criticism" begins with reasons behind the belief as well.
Your words, bolded, by me, for emphasis. "MMO Cannot exist as a non-monetization system". Finally, at least an actual semi-fact and/or clear point that can be debated...
As far as I know, in my time as a gamer, there's three models to making income on a computer game. Model #1: Traditional pay for the game up front, pay till the servers go belly up, perhaps tack on extra income via expansions and/or DLC (a semi-modern semi-expansion). Model #2, and the "Typical" MMO system: Pay for the game up front and/or pay a monthly subscription fee. Model #3: Free to pay with tons of monetized Micro (and freqently "macro") transactions.
STO has taken Model 3 to heart, after Model 2 caused Atari to sell off Cryptic because it wasn't making enough to keep Atari afloat. If you have a better proposal than one of the three above, I'd love to hear it - this is, after all, the way a debate occurs - I state one stance, you state another, and we discuss the merits of both. I've been trying to be "open minded" for solutions to help you get your desires, because unlike a high school debate, I'm not looking to "win the argument for points", I'm looking to refine something to the point that Cryptic has to look at it in a logical manner and, perhaps, implement it. Could you please elaborate on this position?
I want to think I have tried to. As I said, I'm trying, however obtusely and stubbornly, to learn what makes these arguments tick. And it seems that I have.
While I'm getting nowhere with front 2, it seems that I have found something to work with over the whole monetization thing. I leave the floor open to you to expound on how you would propose that "free stuffs now" would lead to greater benefits to Cryptic, and by extension PWE, than my stubborn defense of the F2P/Micro-Macro transaction model.
Actually Dareau if you read the Dev Blog which allow me to well...............recap on the core argument here. Since you love to exist in your own little world about this.
Tier 5 Starship Upgrades
By LaughingTrendy Wed 27 Aug 2014 12:00:00 PM PDT
When we first discussed increasing the level cap, one of the questions we first asked ourselves was What happens to Tier 5 ships?
Players have been invested in this tier of ships for 4 years and we wanted to avoid devaluing the time and money spent in obtaining them.
We wanted a fair solution instead of requiring players to absolutely need to obtain or purchase a whole new suite of starships for a new tier of content as we have in the past.
Weve approached starships very differently for the level 50 to 60 band.
First, we will allow players to upgrade most Tier 5 starships they own to a T5-U version.
This upgraded starship receives many of the perks of a Tier 6 starships minus a few bells and whistles.
More on the specifics of this later.
Second, all existing content, all new story content, patrols and most queues will not require a Tier 6 or Upgraded Tier 5 starship.
Only the most challenging new level 60 content will strongly benefit from using an upgraded Tier 5 starship or a Tier 6 starship, however it will not strictly require it.
Upgrading a Tier 5 ship is easy.
First, you must be level 50 and at a starship selector NPC on a ground map.
When browsing your starships youll notice that qualifying Tier 5 ships will now have an upgrade button on the starships inventory screen.
Pressing this button will prompt you to pay a Zen cost (or possibly require an item with a Zen cost).
This cost will be significantly lower than if you were to purchase a Tier 6 ship from the Zen Store.
Completing this purchase will then immediately upgrade your ship and transfer any items on the T5 ship to the new upgraded ship.
It should be noted that some ships will be free to upgrade.
This includes things like many event reputation ships (like the Breen and Risian ships), all lockbox ships, all lobi store ships, and duty officer promotion ships like the JemHadar Attack Ship and Voth Bulwark Dreadnought Cruiser.
As mentioned above, upgraded Tier 5 ships (or T5-U ships) will offer many of the same benefits provided by Tier 6 starships minus a few bells and whistles.
T5-U ships will feature a sizeable number of additional hit points that will increase as your captain levels up, an additional console slot, and four Starship Mastery levels.
As mentioned in the Tier 6 Starships blog, the Starship Mastery system represents your captain and crew mastering the starship and discovering its full capabilities over time.
All upgraded Tier 5 ships have the ability to become more powerful as the captain gains Skill Points.
This allows the starship to effectively Level Up.
T5-U starships start at level 0 and progress to level 4 as the captain plays the game normally.
At each level (up to the max level of 4), the starship gains a new passive ability that provides a sizeable boost to a stat like damage resistance, critical hit chance, or hit points.
These passive abilities are specific to the ship that has unlocked them, and each starship within a given category shares the same package of passive abilities.
As you can see, upgraded Tier 5 ships share many of the benefits of a Tier 6 starship with a few exceptions.
Below is a table that outlines precisely which benefits T5-U and T6 ships receive.
*Upgraded Tier 5 starships and Tier 6 starships both have four passive abilities.
The fifth Starship Mastery level on Tier 6 ships unlocks the starships trait.
**All Tier 6 ships launching with Delta Rising will come with a Specialist Bridge Officer seat.
However, it should be noted that future Tier 6 ships may not always come with one.
A notable benefit of upgrading a Tier 5 ship is that the upgrade is available across your entire account.
Example: If I upgrade my Avenger Battlecruiser on my Starfleet tactical captain, I can upgrade an Avenger Battlecruiser from T5 to T5-U on any character that also owns this ship for free.
The vast majority of existing Tier 5 starships can be upgraded to T5-U granting the benefits mentioned above.
You can find an exhaustive list of all upgradeable ships here.
Our current plan is to release as many of the ships above as possible when Delta Rising launches.
Any ships on this list that arent available by launch will be rolled out in future updates until the entire list shown in the link above is available.
Q: How much Zen will it cost to upgrade my starship?
A: We have not finalized the cost, but it is likely to be somewhere between $5 and $10.
Q: Which ships will be free to upgrade?
A: All Lockbox and Lobi starships, 1000 Day Veteran Destroyers,
Duty Officer promotional starships, and the Dyson, Breen and Risian event starships will all qualify for a free T5-U upgrade.
Q: So, if I pay for an upgrade on a starship, that upgraded starship will be available to all my characters that can fly that ship?
A: Correct!
You only need to pay the upgrade fee once.
Q: What actions give skill points to increase my Starship Mastery level?
A: Only defeating enemy starships will yield skill points for your Starship Mastery.
Q: Will there be any story content that requires a T5-U or T6 starship?
A: Absolutely not.
Our goal here is to allow players to play through all of the games story content without requiring the purchase of a starship.
Owning one of these top notch ships will certainly give you an edge, but story content isnt designed to require these ships.
Q: Are the passive abilities between T5-U and T6 ships of the same ship category the same?
Or are the abilities found on the T6 ships better?
A: Starship Mastery passive abilities are identical between T5-U and T6 starships.
The only difference between these ships in Starship Mastery is that T6 ships have a Starship Trait that can be unlocked at Level 5 whereas T5-U ships Starship Mastery progression ends at Level 4 and they dont have a Starship Trait to be unlocked.
Please note that everything detailed here is subject to change due to feedback.
We also encourage you to hop onto our test server Tribble to experience this system first hand when it becomes available.
Phil Gorngonzolla Zeleski
Systems Lead
Star Trek Online
What we have here is the gaurntee that Lobi Store and Lock Box Starships WILL be grandfathered over for the T5-U that you so love to jabber on about. What folks like me, gameverseman and many others have the "concern" about is paying the fee to upgrade all C-Store Starships as well as Fleet Starships in the $5 to $10 range to upgrade. As far as Tier VI goes.................that's another thread itself. Please exit right, and take the concern there.
Now onto about the Tier V-U versions now. The issue is since oh well Season 7 and up to now! Folks have bought these ships from the C-Store, so money already has been payed. Now onto those ships? That might be roughly in total from $80 depending on ship prices in zen for each to maybe $50 to $60 minium. In oh the last year or so. While yes, roughly maybe for an amount was payed more for the Lock Boxes and the invested Lobi for those people to go to Lobi Store and purchase a ship.
So where does that leave the folks that bought the C-Store Ships and did the "Sweat Equity" to get the Fleet Credits, save the Dylithium, and also save for the Fleet Modules. To..............the........................curb. That is what the players on this thread and gamers on STO itself see. It's the seperation of who pumped more money into say the Lock Box and Lobi Stores, and the folks with the C Store and Fleet Projects as left for nothing. WE the PLAYERS have to cough up the cash to upgrade or just consider Tier VI.
Even Gorngonzilla stated up there that the whole idea is "subject to change depending on the feedback". Well WE ARE GIVING THAT FEEDBACK. Take it or leave it, that is the opinion, that is the interpretation, that is given for the information is recieved. And it is also why you fail to understand that Dareau. Over and over. "IT" is the reason why you have an issue on three fronts and why this will go on and on unless it ceases itself. IT IS the reason why this thread has had over 2k in post and responses and Tier VI only had what..............close to 300 or more in post? Because this is the news they gave us, and this is what was recieved. Take it or leave it that's the feedback. And to be honest for all the shareholders, Lifetime Members, Gold Members as well. Including the Staff there as well. They may agree or not agree with how we feel. But money was exchanged in the C-Store, we made the transaction and now the player base feels ripped off for the being charged to do an upgrade just to do the DR lvl 60 missions. We need better alternatives for that. Either way, Perfectworld/Cryptic can still make money off from those that are buying the ships from C-Store after the DR update. But hey, if they could grandfather Omega Space and Ground Sets from one season to the next when they introduced the Reputation System. YES! They can grandfather C-Store and Fleet Ships as well to DR for those that already have them to T5-U PERIOD! Check Please!
Bottomline is, you agree with what has been proposed. Which means there's no need for you to post on the forums at all. Passive acceptance goes farther than getting involved and having people consider you a fanboy and/or defender. (not that I think that).
lol, this did make me laugh. its a forum, im a member, if i feel like adding my comment,
positive or negative, i will do. or are you suggesting that posting is only appropriate for
expressing a negative attitude? and if by fanboy you mean someone who enjoys this
game, can understand the need for cryptic to turn profit in order to maintain the game
and doesnt fall prey to the idiocy that perpetuates through those individuals who feel that
thier opinion and theirs alone are the only opinions that matter. if by fanboy you mean
someone who always attempts to consider both sides of an argument or discussion, and
regardless of my personal opinion always trys to keep an open mind, because i know that
i'm not always right, and happy to accept that when im proven wrong. if by fanboy you
mean someone that understands the neccessity for any discussion to be represented by
all views otherwise it isnt actually a discussion.. then yeah, im a fanboy!!
What we have here is the gaurntee that Lobi Store and Lock Box Starships WILL be grandfathered over for the T5-U that you so love to jabber on about. What folks like me, gameverseman and many others have the "concern" about is paying the fee to upgrade all C-Store Starships as well as Fleet Starships in the $5 to $10 range to upgrade. As far as Tier VI goes.................that's another thread itself. Please exit right, and take the concern there.
Now onto about the Tier V-U versions now. The issue is since oh well Season 7 and up to now! Folks have bought these ships from the C-Store, so money already has been payed. Now onto those ships? That might be roughly in total from $80 depending on ship prices in zen for each to maybe $50 to $60 minium. In oh the last year or so. While yes, roughly maybe for an amount was payed more for the Lock Boxes and the invested Lobi for those people to go to Lobi Store and purchase a ship.
So where does that leave the folks that bought the C-Store Ships and did the "Sweat Equity" to get the Fleet Credits, save the Dylithium, and also save for the Fleet Modules. To..............the........................curb. That is what the players on this thread and gamers on STO itself see. It's the seperation of who pumped more money into say the Lock Box and Lobi Stores, and the folks with the C Store and Fleet Projects as left for nothing. WE the PLAYERS have to cough up the cash to upgrade or just consider Tier VI.
Even Geko stated up there that the whole idea is "subject to change depending on the feedback". Well WE ARE GIVING THAT FEEDBACK. Take it or leave it, that is the opinion, that is the interpretation, that is given for the information is recieved. And it is also why you fail to understand that Dareau. Over and over. "IT" is the reason why you have an issue on three fronts and why this will go on and on unless it ceases itself. IT IS the reason why this thread has had over 2k in post and responses and Tier VI only had what..............close to 300 or more in post? Because this is the news they gave us, and this is what was recieved. Take it or leave it that's the feedback. And to be honest for all the shareholders, Lifetime Members, Gold Members as well. Including the Staff there as well. They may agree or not agree with how we feel. But money was exchanged in the C-Store, we made the transaction and now the player base feels ripped off for the being charged to do an upgrade just to do the DR lvl 60 missions. We need better alternatives for that. Either way, Perfectworld/Cryptic can still make money off from those that are buying the ships from C-Store after the DR update. But hey, if they could grandfather Omega Space and Ground Sets from one season to the next when they introduced the Reputation System. YES! They can grandfather C-Store and Fleet Ships as well to DR for those that already have them to T5-U PERIOD! Check Please!
Okay. This much I confirm, and don't want to argue.
However, I've asked once, and I'll ask again. Not because I'm completely stubborn, but I want some logic.
We're going up against the fact that, whether you were here for it or not - I was - the last time they introduced a new bar - specifically the T5.5 "fleet" ships - lockbox ships got a free, and automatic, ride, while any and every "C-store" version required the purchase of at least 1x $5 fleet module.
Now, if there is an actual reason why this time needs to be different, I - and Cryptic - would love to hear it. Something that would convince anyone who hears it that the "free" process is better.
Not just "I spent money". The answer to that will be: "and you still have exactly what you paid for.
Not just "the bar went up and I deserve to go with it". The answer will be "we don't do things that way. Look up the history".
We know what you want. We (sorta) know why you want it. The position you have given to this point flies both in the face of precedent, and convention - specifically model 3, F2P game financed by lots of microtransactions. And does not give a reason to fly in the face of precedent & convention other than "we want it". Now show everyone how this would benefit everyone - players, devs, etc.
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
So I got a kar'fi and a fed dreadnought that I paid zen and I have to pay more zen to get them upgraded but the dyson destroyer I got for free is upgraded for free? What backwards logic is that? If you paid real money you got to pay more real money but if you just happened to be here and got it for free, no charge?!? What BS!
you'll find that the event ships will still be on offer for the next run of the events, kinda
hard to get people interested in the event if the ships are non competative, think its a
case of they kinda had to update them. none of the event or lockbox ships are faction
based either, i think that also has something to do with the way they have done things.
So where does that leave the folks that bought the C-Store Ships and did the "Sweat Equity" to get the Fleet Credits, save the Dylithium, and also save for the Fleet Modules. To..............the........................curb. That is what the players on this thread and gamers on STO itself see. It's the seperation of who pumped more money into say the Lock Box and Lobi Stores, and the folks with the C Store and Fleet Projects as left for nothing. WE the PLAYERS have to cough up the cash to upgrade or just consider Tier VI.
That's simple. Upgrade any ships you have that qualify for free upgrades by pressing the button, pay the fee to upgrade any ships that cost to upgrade, use your existing ship as is or wait and see if there's a T6 ship rolled out that you like, and pay for that.
The solution is simple. It is fair since they could dispense with the upgrade part altogether and tell you to stuff it. Since you know, no other ship has ever had an upgrade to a higher tier of stats,...
Even Gorngonzilla stated up there that the whole idea is "subject to change depending on the feedback". Well WE ARE GIVING THAT FEEDBACK. Take it or leave it, that is the opinion, that is the interpretation, that is given for the information is recieved.
...snip..
No. What is going on is page after page of ******** and moaning because their favorite ship or cause or whatever, is not handed to them free since they may have paid some money for it at some point in the past. Despite the fact that T5U ships will be as different from T5, as Fleet is, and no one seems to have a problem paying for THAT difference.
If you or anyone else thinks that Cryptic is going to suddenly reverse their decision and plan based on some whining in the forums, which they've previously stated they don't listen to anymore, then it is you my friend who is sadly delusional.
"Go play with your DPS in the corner, I don't care how big it is." ~ Me "There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
I think I said I'm willing to pay, I'm just being offered a broken/limited path to upgrade and others aren't.
What it's accomplished is stopping me from buying/spending Zen *now* and until this settles out, and maybe I will start again and maybe I won't, depending on how irritating it is for me to get from A to B.
Right now the Gambler's Fallacy rule is kicking in.
We won't know for sure until after the release, and yes, it looks like they won't deviate from whatever course they set for themselves.
I've been busy the last few days, so I've missed most of the discussion about the T5 ship upgrades. I think I've read all the important information, but I'm not going to read through 200+ pages of this thread, so forgive me if I've missed something.
1. T5-U fleet ships will have one extra console slot, one fewer bridge officer ability, and 10% more shields and hull than T6 ships. It depends highly on the exact console and bridge officer ability, but I feel that on average a bridge officer ability is worth more than an extra console and 10% more shields and hull.
2. It seems that the T6 ships available at launch will be entirely new models. My concern is that Cryptic will later introduce T6 versions of existing C-Store and fleet ships. Cryptic hasn't said that this will happen, but based on the information released so far, I strongly suspect that it will. Presumably, a T6 fleet ship will have all the benefits of both a fleet ship and a T6 ship. Why would someone pay to upgrade a fleet Defiant to T5-U if a new T6 fleet Defiant will be introduced later? Unless Cryptic says that they will never introduce T6 versions of existing C-Store and fleet ships, I will simply forgo the T5 upgrade and wait until the T6 version of the ship I want becomes available. Right now, a T5 upgrade seems like a waste of money.
3. I suggest that you scrap the whole T5-U idea and simply give players who own an existing T5 C-Store or fleet ship a discount on the corresponding T6 ship.
4. Geko has said in the past that most players stick to one ship per character and that he would like to make it easier for players to use different ships. The fact that ships level separately will make it even more likely that players will stick to one ship.
5. What happens if we dismiss and reclaim a ship? Do we lose all the progress we've made leveling that ship?
Ok. I'm new, about 1 month playing. However, this discussion is very important because I was about to buy a zen ship. But now, after going thru several of these forums it appears that I have 2 options:
1 - Wait until October to buy a t6 ship, though the cost is still a mystery.
2 - Use a little zen to remove the credit limit and grind for a lockbox ship from the exchange (I might get lucky and get a bargain), that later will upgradable for free.
But the message I'm seeing right now is: buying a Zen ship today would be a bad investment. Pay now and then pay later to still not get the top of the line.
I have to agree jack. What gets me it seems from the blog that the Lobi Store and the Lockbox ships get the free upgrade. Oh WAIT, I HAVE AN IDEA! Let's all buy the Mirror Universe ships off the exchange, then when DR kicks in we have upgraded Mirror Universe Starships.
Uh oh, Perfectworld has a loop hole!!!!!!!! XD
So they say lock box ships get free upgrades. Mirror ships come from lock boxes. Do they get a free upgrade then?
Tier 5 starships that have been omitted from this list, as they dont qualify for an upgrade, are those that fall into one of the following categories:
Starships with a Dilithium or Rank-Up Token cost
Starships that cost Fleet Credits only
Starships that are awarded from completion of an episode
Mirror Universe Starships
Yes, I'm that Askray@Batbayer in game. Yes, I still play. No, I don't care. Former Community Moderator, Former SSR DJ, Now Full time father to two kids, Husband, Retail Worker. Tiktok: @Askray Facebook: Askray113
Ok. I'm new, about 1 month playing. However, this discussion is very important because I was about to buy a zen ship. But now, after going thru several of these forums it appears that I have 2 options:
1 - Wait until October to buy a t6 ship, though the cost is still a mystery.
2 - Use a little zen to remove the credit limit and grind for a lockbox ship from the exchange (I might get lucky and get a bargain), that later will upgradable for free.
But the message I'm seeing right now is: buying a Zen ship today would be a bad investment. Pay now and then pay later to still not get the top of the line.
1: Good patience shall be well rewarded.
2: That is at least a year of grinding, you could get a 25 zen ship in a month of earning dillithium.
Lock box grand prize ships are super rare, so they do not come cheap ever. I recommend you hold you money till October, and until then, try out buying mirror ships off the exchange. They are super cheap, and have stats related to your last free ship (I would recommend a Mirror Science Vessel Retrofit; it is lite, may need hull plating, but is great fun).
Ok. I'm new, about 1 month playing. However, this discussion is very important because I was about to buy a zen ship. But now, after going thru several of these forums it appears that I have 2 options:
1 - Wait until October to buy a t6 ship, though the cost is still a mystery.
2 - Use a little zen to remove the credit limit and grind for a lockbox ship from the exchange (I might get lucky and get a bargain), that later will upgradable for free.
But the message I'm seeing right now is: buying a Zen ship today would be a bad investment. Pay now and then pay later to still not get the top of the line.
This right here.
That's why I'm just going to bide my time, wait 'till October, grind out some dilithium and see what happens. from the few visuals we've seen of the T6 ships, it looks like there will be T6 skins for ships we already know. the two we've seen seem to be a T6 Prometheus (or possibly Cheyenne, it's a quad nacelle), and the other one is clearly a T6 Defiant. if this pattern holds true (which it will, knowing Cryptic), then then we will probably see T6 variants of the ships we know and love, with access to the pre-T6 skins/costumes.
I'll say this now: if there turns out to be a T6 Odyssey, I will buy it and i will fly it, if not, then I'll just upgrade my current space whale and be happy with it.
I think I'd rather just get a T6 ship at this point then upgrading a T5 to a T5-U. Personally I'd like it better if I could use ship models from T5 on the T6 ship frames based on escort, cruiser, etc. T5-U seems like a waste of a stepping stone since ships are bought and not earned as drops like in other MMO's.
I'll wait till DR reelase though because I want to see what will change between now and then. I'm not going to bother getting anything else from the Z store ship or gear wise until after DR hits. Kind of a waste at this point since saving is better for the new stuff.
Comments
im always right, just ask n i shall tell u :P
lol, i'm sure you would
from the look of things the T6 fed ship does look like an upgraded Fleet Prometheus. There is that.
First having T6 ships will be good no doubt but should we have T5U ships, Fleet ships and Upgraded fleet ships between Tiers the only thing i can see that doing is increasing the cost of T6 ships this is what i fear is going to happen.
T5 ship 2000-2500 zen
Fleet mod 500 zen
Ship upgrade 500-1000 zen
So to get a fleet ship and upgrade it would cost between 3000-4000 zen so would cryptic sell a T6 ship cheaper than a upgraded fleet one probably not if the T6 ship costs 3000 zen i wouldn't have a problem with the upgrade option but at least until now ship cost progression seems to have increase by 500 zen per tier.
What i would like to see cryptic do is (this will probably not be popular) remove fleet ships or at least have the benefits worked in differently so you won't have multiple levelled ships between tiers so when you hit the delta rising missions your ship gets a free upgrade to T5U. Then at least you could work all ships into that Lobi, lockbox, special Events & Bundle packs then all ships would get the free upgrade and so you don't loose any investment in fleet progression when your Fleet hits the required tier you get that tier's ship benefits to match up to current fleet ships, (this will never happen i know) Also will we get T6 fleet ships will we get T7 ships one day would we get the option to upgrade the old tier ships then the question is how might that work into the cost of this and future ship tiers and again should we have ships and upgraded ships between those tiers which could end up only drastically increasing this and those of future tier ships cost.
That's my 2 Zen on the matter.
Yeah, more like a Prometheus and a Cheyenne had a baby raised by the Elachi.
I have to agree jack. What gets me it seems from the blog that the Lobi Store and the Lockbox ships get the free upgrade. Oh WAIT, I HAVE AN IDEA! Let's all buy the Mirror Universe ships off the exchange, then when DR kicks in we have upgraded Mirror Universe Starships.
Uh oh, Perfectworld has a loop hole!!!!!!!! XD
Yeah, that actually make sense! We all know we, at Cryptic/PWE, don't like things to make sense. So we will have to deny your idea. See you in-game
Actually, I would have liked a T6 Mogai Retrofit very much.
Got it. Counter argument to my Front #1. Because Perfect World turned a profit last quarter, and therefore must have money, they are supposed to give us all sorts of free stuff, free games, and not need to make money until they're practically broke again.
As this seems to be the case, after three tries, then I cannot glean any more information from you, and this debate is going nowhere. By all means, preach on about getting free upgrades, just don't be surprised when it don't happen.
Conjecture aside, arguments about the use of a word aside. The core of this argument comes down to explaining why I infer Cryptic is insisting on T5U vs T6. After deftly ignoring the core of the argument yet again - I see not a single part about design differences in the section has made the transition into quotes and/or is discussed. To me, much like point #1 above, you have a belief that a certain thing should happen, and that these things better happen with no rhyme or reason other than your belief. While your opinion is welcome, do note that "constructive criticism" begins with reasons behind the belief as well.
Your words, bolded, by me, for emphasis. "MMO Cannot exist as a non-monetization system". Finally, at least an actual semi-fact and/or clear point that can be debated...
As far as I know, in my time as a gamer, there's three models to making income on a computer game. Model #1: Traditional pay for the game up front, pay till the servers go belly up, perhaps tack on extra income via expansions and/or DLC (a semi-modern semi-expansion). Model #2, and the "Typical" MMO system: Pay for the game up front and/or pay a monthly subscription fee. Model #3: Free to pay with tons of monetized Micro (and freqently "macro") transactions.
STO has taken Model 3 to heart, after Model 2 caused Atari to sell off Cryptic because it wasn't making enough to keep Atari afloat. If you have a better proposal than one of the three above, I'd love to hear it - this is, after all, the way a debate occurs - I state one stance, you state another, and we discuss the merits of both. I've been trying to be "open minded" for solutions to help you get your desires, because unlike a high school debate, I'm not looking to "win the argument for points", I'm looking to refine something to the point that Cryptic has to look at it in a logical manner and, perhaps, implement it. Could you please elaborate on this position?
I want to think I have tried to. As I said, I'm trying, however obtusely and stubbornly, to learn what makes these arguments tick. And it seems that I have.
While I'm getting nowhere with front 2, it seems that I have found something to work with over the whole monetization thing. I leave the floor open to you to expound on how you would propose that "free stuffs now" would lead to greater benefits to Cryptic, and by extension PWE, than my stubborn defense of the F2P/Micro-Macro transaction model.
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
mind paying out when i feel there is good value to be had or justification for it.
i have, as yet, seen nothing anyone has posted here, that has swayed my
opinion or acceptance of this upgrade system . the expansion needs paying for,
the way they intend to do it is, in my opinion, very reasonable. my only concern,
if any, is how much it will cost me, not that it will. it makes no sense, from a
business perspective, even from an in-game storyline perspective, to upgrade old
ships to the exact same standard as the new. if the olds ship had everything the
new ships did, what incentive would there be to buy T6 ships? and from a storyline
perspective, these are the next line in ships, newly devloped and built specifically to
deal with this new threat. it is highly possible that in real terms (well as real as it can
be in a game) much of the new technology and advances may well be impossible or
impractical to retrofit.
Bottomline is, you agree with what has been proposed. Which means there's no need for you to post on the forums at all. Passive acceptance goes farther than getting involved and having people consider you a fanboy and/or defender. (not that I think that).
My character Tsin'xing
Actually Dareau if you read the Dev Blog which allow me to well...............recap on the core argument here. Since you love to exist in your own little world about this.
Tier 5 Starship Upgrades
By LaughingTrendy Wed 27 Aug 2014 12:00:00 PM PDT
When we first discussed increasing the level cap, one of the questions we first asked ourselves was What happens to Tier 5 ships?
Players have been invested in this tier of ships for 4 years and we wanted to avoid devaluing the time and money spent in obtaining them.
We wanted a fair solution instead of requiring players to absolutely need to obtain or purchase a whole new suite of starships for a new tier of content as we have in the past.
Weve approached starships very differently for the level 50 to 60 band.
First, we will allow players to upgrade most Tier 5 starships they own to a T5-U version.
This upgraded starship receives many of the perks of a Tier 6 starships minus a few bells and whistles.
More on the specifics of this later.
Second, all existing content, all new story content, patrols and most queues will not require a Tier 6 or Upgraded Tier 5 starship.
Only the most challenging new level 60 content will strongly benefit from using an upgraded Tier 5 starship or a Tier 6 starship, however it will not strictly require it.
Upgrading a Tier 5 ship is easy.
First, you must be level 50 and at a starship selector NPC on a ground map.
When browsing your starships youll notice that qualifying Tier 5 ships will now have an upgrade button on the starships inventory screen.
Pressing this button will prompt you to pay a Zen cost (or possibly require an item with a Zen cost).
This cost will be significantly lower than if you were to purchase a Tier 6 ship from the Zen Store.
Completing this purchase will then immediately upgrade your ship and transfer any items on the T5 ship to the new upgraded ship.
It should be noted that some ships will be free to upgrade.
This includes things like many event reputation ships (like the Breen and Risian ships), all lockbox ships, all lobi store ships, and duty officer promotion ships like the JemHadar Attack Ship and Voth Bulwark Dreadnought Cruiser.
As mentioned above, upgraded Tier 5 ships (or T5-U ships) will offer many of the same benefits provided by Tier 6 starships minus a few bells and whistles.
T5-U ships will feature a sizeable number of additional hit points that will increase as your captain levels up, an additional console slot, and four Starship Mastery levels.
As mentioned in the Tier 6 Starships blog, the Starship Mastery system represents your captain and crew mastering the starship and discovering its full capabilities over time.
All upgraded Tier 5 ships have the ability to become more powerful as the captain gains Skill Points.
This allows the starship to effectively Level Up.
T5-U starships start at level 0 and progress to level 4 as the captain plays the game normally.
At each level (up to the max level of 4), the starship gains a new passive ability that provides a sizeable boost to a stat like damage resistance, critical hit chance, or hit points.
These passive abilities are specific to the ship that has unlocked them, and each starship within a given category shares the same package of passive abilities.
As you can see, upgraded Tier 5 ships share many of the benefits of a Tier 6 starship with a few exceptions.
Below is a table that outlines precisely which benefits T5-U and T6 ships receive.
*Upgraded Tier 5 starships and Tier 6 starships both have four passive abilities.
The fifth Starship Mastery level on Tier 6 ships unlocks the starships trait.
**All Tier 6 ships launching with Delta Rising will come with a Specialist Bridge Officer seat.
However, it should be noted that future Tier 6 ships may not always come with one.
A notable benefit of upgrading a Tier 5 ship is that the upgrade is available across your entire account.
Example: If I upgrade my Avenger Battlecruiser on my Starfleet tactical captain, I can upgrade an Avenger Battlecruiser from T5 to T5-U on any character that also owns this ship for free.
The vast majority of existing Tier 5 starships can be upgraded to T5-U granting the benefits mentioned above.
You can find an exhaustive list of all upgradeable ships here.
Our current plan is to release as many of the ships above as possible when Delta Rising launches.
Any ships on this list that arent available by launch will be rolled out in future updates until the entire list shown in the link above is available.
Q: How much Zen will it cost to upgrade my starship?
A: We have not finalized the cost, but it is likely to be somewhere between $5 and $10.
Q: Which ships will be free to upgrade?
A: All Lockbox and Lobi starships, 1000 Day Veteran Destroyers,
Duty Officer promotional starships, and the Dyson, Breen and Risian event starships will all qualify for a free T5-U upgrade.
Q: So, if I pay for an upgrade on a starship, that upgraded starship will be available to all my characters that can fly that ship?
A: Correct!
You only need to pay the upgrade fee once.
Q: What actions give skill points to increase my Starship Mastery level?
A: Only defeating enemy starships will yield skill points for your Starship Mastery.
Q: Will there be any story content that requires a T5-U or T6 starship?
A: Absolutely not.
Our goal here is to allow players to play through all of the games story content without requiring the purchase of a starship.
Owning one of these top notch ships will certainly give you an edge, but story content isnt designed to require these ships.
Q: Are the passive abilities between T5-U and T6 ships of the same ship category the same?
Or are the abilities found on the T6 ships better?
A: Starship Mastery passive abilities are identical between T5-U and T6 starships.
The only difference between these ships in Starship Mastery is that T6 ships have a Starship Trait that can be unlocked at Level 5 whereas T5-U ships Starship Mastery progression ends at Level 4 and they dont have a Starship Trait to be unlocked.
Please note that everything detailed here is subject to change due to feedback.
We also encourage you to hop onto our test server Tribble to experience this system first hand when it becomes available.
Phil Gorngonzolla Zeleski
Systems Lead
Star Trek Online
What we have here is the gaurntee that Lobi Store and Lock Box Starships WILL be grandfathered over for the T5-U that you so love to jabber on about. What folks like me, gameverseman and many others have the "concern" about is paying the fee to upgrade all C-Store Starships as well as Fleet Starships in the $5 to $10 range to upgrade. As far as Tier VI goes.................that's another thread itself. Please exit right, and take the concern there.
Now onto about the Tier V-U versions now. The issue is since oh well Season 7 and up to now! Folks have bought these ships from the C-Store, so money already has been payed. Now onto those ships? That might be roughly in total from $80 depending on ship prices in zen for each to maybe $50 to $60 minium. In oh the last year or so. While yes, roughly maybe for an amount was payed more for the Lock Boxes and the invested Lobi for those people to go to Lobi Store and purchase a ship.
So where does that leave the folks that bought the C-Store Ships and did the "Sweat Equity" to get the Fleet Credits, save the Dylithium, and also save for the Fleet Modules. To..............the........................curb. That is what the players on this thread and gamers on STO itself see. It's the seperation of who pumped more money into say the Lock Box and Lobi Stores, and the folks with the C Store and Fleet Projects as left for nothing. WE the PLAYERS have to cough up the cash to upgrade or just consider Tier VI.
Even Gorngonzilla stated up there that the whole idea is "subject to change depending on the feedback". Well WE ARE GIVING THAT FEEDBACK. Take it or leave it, that is the opinion, that is the interpretation, that is given for the information is recieved. And it is also why you fail to understand that Dareau. Over and over. "IT" is the reason why you have an issue on three fronts and why this will go on and on unless it ceases itself. IT IS the reason why this thread has had over 2k in post and responses and Tier VI only had what..............close to 300 or more in post? Because this is the news they gave us, and this is what was recieved. Take it or leave it that's the feedback. And to be honest for all the shareholders, Lifetime Members, Gold Members as well. Including the Staff there as well. They may agree or not agree with how we feel. But money was exchanged in the C-Store, we made the transaction and now the player base feels ripped off for the being charged to do an upgrade just to do the DR lvl 60 missions. We need better alternatives for that. Either way, Perfectworld/Cryptic can still make money off from those that are buying the ships from C-Store after the DR update. But hey, if they could grandfather Omega Space and Ground Sets from one season to the next when they introduced the Reputation System. YES! They can grandfather C-Store and Fleet Ships as well to DR for those that already have them to T5-U PERIOD! Check Please!
lol, this did make me laugh. its a forum, im a member, if i feel like adding my comment,
positive or negative, i will do. or are you suggesting that posting is only appropriate for
expressing a negative attitude? and if by fanboy you mean someone who enjoys this
game, can understand the need for cryptic to turn profit in order to maintain the game
and doesnt fall prey to the idiocy that perpetuates through those individuals who feel that
thier opinion and theirs alone are the only opinions that matter. if by fanboy you mean
someone who always attempts to consider both sides of an argument or discussion, and
regardless of my personal opinion always trys to keep an open mind, because i know that
i'm not always right, and happy to accept that when im proven wrong. if by fanboy you
mean someone that understands the neccessity for any discussion to be represented by
all views otherwise it isnt actually a discussion.. then yeah, im a fanboy!!
Okay. This much I confirm, and don't want to argue.
However, I've asked once, and I'll ask again. Not because I'm completely stubborn, but I want some logic.
We're going up against the fact that, whether you were here for it or not - I was - the last time they introduced a new bar - specifically the T5.5 "fleet" ships - lockbox ships got a free, and automatic, ride, while any and every "C-store" version required the purchase of at least 1x $5 fleet module.
Now, if there is an actual reason why this time needs to be different, I - and Cryptic - would love to hear it. Something that would convince anyone who hears it that the "free" process is better.
Not just "I spent money". The answer to that will be: "and you still have exactly what you paid for.
Not just "the bar went up and I deserve to go with it". The answer will be "we don't do things that way. Look up the history".
We know what you want. We (sorta) know why you want it. The position you have given to this point flies both in the face of precedent, and convention - specifically model 3, F2P game financed by lots of microtransactions. And does not give a reason to fly in the face of precedent & convention other than "we want it". Now show everyone how this would benefit everyone - players, devs, etc.
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
you'll find that the event ships will still be on offer for the next run of the events, kinda
hard to get people interested in the event if the ships are non competative, think its a
case of they kinda had to update them. none of the event or lockbox ships are faction
based either, i think that also has something to do with the way they have done things.
That's simple. Upgrade any ships you have that qualify for free upgrades by pressing the button, pay the fee to upgrade any ships that cost to upgrade, use your existing ship as is or wait and see if there's a T6 ship rolled out that you like, and pay for that.
The solution is simple. It is fair since they could dispense with the upgrade part altogether and tell you to stuff it. Since you know, no other ship has ever had an upgrade to a higher tier of stats,...
No. What is going on is page after page of ******** and moaning because their favorite ship or cause or whatever, is not handed to them free since they may have paid some money for it at some point in the past. Despite the fact that T5U ships will be as different from T5, as Fleet is, and no one seems to have a problem paying for THAT difference.
If you or anyone else thinks that Cryptic is going to suddenly reverse their decision and plan based on some whining in the forums, which they've previously stated they don't listen to anymore, then it is you my friend who is sadly delusional.
"There... are... four... lights!" ~Jean Luc Picard
What it's accomplished is stopping me from buying/spending Zen *now* and until this settles out, and maybe I will start again and maybe I won't, depending on how irritating it is for me to get from A to B.
Right now the Gambler's Fallacy rule is kicking in.
We won't know for sure until after the release, and yes, it looks like they won't deviate from whatever course they set for themselves.
1. T5-U fleet ships will have one extra console slot, one fewer bridge officer ability, and 10% more shields and hull than T6 ships. It depends highly on the exact console and bridge officer ability, but I feel that on average a bridge officer ability is worth more than an extra console and 10% more shields and hull.
2. It seems that the T6 ships available at launch will be entirely new models. My concern is that Cryptic will later introduce T6 versions of existing C-Store and fleet ships. Cryptic hasn't said that this will happen, but based on the information released so far, I strongly suspect that it will. Presumably, a T6 fleet ship will have all the benefits of both a fleet ship and a T6 ship. Why would someone pay to upgrade a fleet Defiant to T5-U if a new T6 fleet Defiant will be introduced later? Unless Cryptic says that they will never introduce T6 versions of existing C-Store and fleet ships, I will simply forgo the T5 upgrade and wait until the T6 version of the ship I want becomes available. Right now, a T5 upgrade seems like a waste of money.
3. I suggest that you scrap the whole T5-U idea and simply give players who own an existing T5 C-Store or fleet ship a discount on the corresponding T6 ship.
4. Geko has said in the past that most players stick to one ship per character and that he would like to make it easier for players to use different ships. The fact that ships level separately will make it even more likely that players will stick to one ship.
5. What happens if we dismiss and reclaim a ship? Do we lose all the progress we've made leveling that ship?
1 - Wait until October to buy a t6 ship, though the cost is still a mystery.
2 - Use a little zen to remove the credit limit and grind for a lockbox ship from the exchange (I might get lucky and get a bargain), that later will upgradable for free.
But the message I'm seeing right now is: buying a Zen ship today would be a bad investment. Pay now and then pay later to still not get the top of the line.
So they say lock box ships get free upgrades. Mirror ships come from lock boxes. Do they get a free upgrade then?
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/7002163 bottom of the page
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1: Good patience shall be well rewarded.
2: That is at least a year of grinding, you could get a 25 zen ship in a month of earning dillithium.
Lock box grand prize ships are super rare, so they do not come cheap ever. I recommend you hold you money till October, and until then, try out buying mirror ships off the exchange. They are super cheap, and have stats related to your last free ship (I would recommend a Mirror Science Vessel Retrofit; it is lite, may need hull plating, but is great fun).
Thanks for the info. It is a shame mirror ships don't upgrade, but could be worse.
This right here.
That's why I'm just going to bide my time, wait 'till October, grind out some dilithium and see what happens. from the few visuals we've seen of the T6 ships, it looks like there will be T6 skins for ships we already know. the two we've seen seem to be a T6 Prometheus (or possibly Cheyenne, it's a quad nacelle), and the other one is clearly a T6 Defiant. if this pattern holds true (which it will, knowing Cryptic), then then we will probably see T6 variants of the ships we know and love, with access to the pre-T6 skins/costumes.
I'll say this now: if there turns out to be a T6 Odyssey, I will buy it and i will fly it, if not, then I'll just upgrade my current space whale and be happy with it.
I'll wait till DR reelase though because I want to see what will change between now and then. I'm not going to bother getting anything else from the Z store ship or gear wise until after DR hits. Kind of a waste at this point since saving is better for the new stuff.