Otherwise, if cryptic wants all peeps to be equipped for duty, they would give as a single free upgrade or t6 ship (like they did with the other tiers).
If they give us a free t6, it doesn't have to be those shiny uglies that they have been working on, they could just take a Typhoon, a Jupiter, etc. and slap on some stats, and send them on their merry way...
That way I do not have to make life harder for my team mates just because I only have t5s.
Depending on how you look at it, they already have - as long as you did your part before, or are willing to put in the time as of right now...
To wit, there are 5 "event" ships that are on the list of "free upgrades" - both Breen ships (the winter event ones), both Risian ships (the summer event ones), and the "grindiversary" ship.
Being that all 5 are "fleet level" 10 console +10% hull/shield strength ships, aka T5.5, the "average" F2Per who can't afford / lacks the massive grind tolerance to acquire a "legit" T5.5 would have at least one of these 5 vessels as their "main" ship - because they are 100% free to acquire with appropriate 5 minutes a day over multiple preselected days grind invested.
Since they are on the list of T5U eligible, and would be "T5U11" in the parlance of this thread owing to their 10 console nature already - Cryptic has you covered.
If not, and you possess some sort of "legit" T5+1 or T5.5 (Fleet) ship acquired off the exchange(s), then with the foreshadowing of this announcement it's time to divert all Dil to the exchange to scrape up the Zen necessary to buy at least one upgrade. Here's hoping that it'll be a 500 zen purchase - so that you only have to divert 20 days of refining to the cause if (when) the exchange hits 320 dil to 1 zen...
Many would argue that if your best ship is the T5 "freebie" from L40, then you are already dragging on the team some and being stuck in that while they're all off in T5Us and T6s isn't gonna be "that much" of a difference... At least through the winter event, where you can grind yourself up one of the two winter ships...
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
Ive read though all of these posts and I think we need to state clearly what we know and what we dont know. All of this is subject to change as we are still anywhere from 4 to 8 weeks from Delta Rising so a lot could change, not saying it will but could.
Tier 6 What we know:
First few ships will have specialist bridge officer slot
Scaling HP
Extra console slot
5 Mastery levels
Unlockable trait
Extra bridge officer ability
Not required for most PVP\PVE queues
Tier 6 What we dont know:
Everything else including stats
Tier 5-U What we know:
Which ships get it (preliminary, could still change)
4 Mastery levels
Extra console slot
Scaling HP
Can use traits, cant unlock them
No extra bridge officer ability
No specialist bridge officer slot
Will cost Zen to upgrade
Not required for most PVP\PVE queues
Tier 5-U What we dont know:
Exact Zen cost
Where the extra console goes
Level unlocks
The TL;DR version is that we dont know jack other then the process and what Tier 5-U gets to keep it on a close to even keel with T6. Anything beyond this is wild mass guessing and has as much chance to be right as wrong. None of it is even out on Tribble yet so we dont know anything about performance of the ships. Best to reserve judgment on this until we have solid facts, not jump to the conclusion that its going to be a rip off.
Ive read though all of these posts and I think we need to state clearly what we know and what we dont know. All of this is subject to change as we are still anywhere from 4 to 8 weeks from Delta Rising so a lot could change, not saying it will but could.
Tier 6 What we know:
First few ships will have specialist bridge officer slot
Scaling HP
Extra console slot
5 Mastery levels
Unlockable trait
Extra bridge officer ability
Not required for most PVP\PVE queues
Tier 6 What we dont know:
Everything else including stats
Tier 5-U What we know:
Which ships get it (preliminary, could still change)
4 Mastery levels
Extra console slot
Scaling HP
Can use traits, cant unlock them
No extra bridge officer ability
No specialist bridge officer slot
Will cost Zen to upgrade
Not required for most PVP\PVE queues
Tier 5-U What we dont know:
Exact Zen cost
Where the extra console goes
Level unlocks
The TL;DR version is that we dont know jack other then the process and what Tier 5-U gets to keep it on a close to even keel with T6. Anything beyond this is wild mass guessing and has as much chance to be right as wrong. None of it is even out on Tribble yet so we dont know anything about performance of the ships. Best to reserve judgment on this until we have solid facts, not jump to the conclusion that its going to be a rip off.
Three clarifications:
1. That "extra console slot" on the T6s is a 10th console slot - Gornzilla spelled that out directly in a previous post comparing T6s to Lockbox/fleet T5Us that start with 10 consoles and get a +1 console through the upgrade chart.
2. That 5th "mastery" slot on the T6s gives the trait that the T5Us can't unlock. Gornzilla said that a couple of times already. Reason that he's spelled it out is because too many people are seeing both the lack of a mastery level and the lack of the trait and think that they're "losing out on" two things, when in reality they're one and the same.
Your chart could read:
T6:
4 Mastery Levels
5th Mastery level that grants starship trait
T5U:
exactly as you have it...
3. Since T5Us scale as a T6 would, the T5U upgrade would be available at the same point that a baseline T6 would - which is L50. If the T5U went straight from "base" to "fully upgraded", it would be a L60 only unlock...
And since it's been stated (Gornzilla again?) that T5Us and T6s will scale directly to the player's level (so once player hits 60, all future T5U / T6 purchases will "scale" straight to max HP/shields). Again reaffirming the belief that the T5Us are gonna start at 50...
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
I was just going by what has been said in the blog posts but yes your read on it is also right, T6 will start with 10 consoles and T5U will get 10 or 11 depending on the ship, a Tactical Odyssey for example would get 11 when upgraded while a normal Odyssey would get 10 when upgraded.
It was stated in the blog post that the 5th mastery level would unlock the trait so the T6 ships for the purposes of the leveling of the ships it is a mastery level, just not one that gives a passive ability like the others. I think that is where some of the confusion comes from. It could have been stated better by Cryptic rather then as an * point which people might have ignored. I would say both are valid readings of it though.
Just a thought here on the T5-Us. With the scaling HP, wouldn't you have to upgrade almost immediately to get the full effect? Otherwise, lets say you upgrade at 52, wouldn't you miss out on the scaling HP for 2 levels which would mean less HP than someone who upgraded right off the bat? If this is true, than we really are being forced to upgrade in order to get our money's worth.
Like, for example, why are the Event Corvette and the Event Dyson Destroyer and the Event Obelisk covered and the Event Odyssey isn't?
The Ody is a serious part of in-game stories and for me personally as well, I think it's one of the best-looking ships in the game, and while the event version is not superior to the C-store version, it means something to me that it was obtained during the event.
Mind you, I'm still POed that one of my three main toons was bugged out of the event and could never get the ship. I was even saving up Zen to buy it for them, now I'm not even sure it will be worth it since I'd have to re-buy different versions over again and they *still* wouldn't quite be top-tier. And they cost a lot more now, and the ones I already own can't keep pace.
Yes, to some extent this always happens when you upgrade, but, seriously, why *most* T5 ships and not all? Why leave some people out?
Yes, I'd probably pay money for a T-6 Ody. Not sure I'd pay more money to replace an Ody I already have with a T-5u in a world of T-6s when Dyson ships and others get free or cheap upgrades.
It sure looks like just another irritating, arbitrary decision.
Like, for example, why are the Event Corvette and the Event Dyson Destroyer and the Event Obelisk covered and the Event Odyssey isn't?
The Ody is a serious part of in-game stories and for me personally as well, I think it's one of the best-looking ships in the game, and while the event version is not superior to the C-store version, it means something to me that it was obtained during the event.
Mind you, I'm still POed that one of my three main toons was bugged out of the event and could never get the ship. I was even saving up Zen to buy it for them, now I'm not even sure it will be worth it since I'd have to re-buy different versions over again and they *still* wouldn't quite be top-tier. And they cost a lot more now, and the ones I already own can't keep pace.
Yes, to some extent this always happens when you upgrade, but, seriously, why *most* T5 ships and not all? Why leave some people out?
Yes, I'd probably pay money for a T-6 Ody. Not sure I'd pay more money to replace an Ody I already have with a T-5u in a world of T-6s when Dyson ships and others get free or cheap upgrades.
It sure looks like just another irritating, arbitrary decision.
Irritating, yep. Arbitrary - nope.
First off, are you confusing the Mission Prize (event) Obelisk with the Advanced model that's in the Lobi store?
On that note, at the bottom of the list, I found this list of "T5 starships that aren't on the T5U upgrade path because they are:"
Starships with a Dilithium or Rank-Up Token cost
Starships that cost Fleet Credits only
Starships that are awarded from completion of an episode
Mirror Universe Starships
Hence why the mission Ambassador and "basic" Obelisk aren't on the list - episode reward.
The 9 Console Oddy is one of those "200,000 FCs and a module" down in the fleet yards - if you have a T5 shipyard or join a fleet with one for a few minutes... And wasn't it a one-off mission during the second anniversary? (I ask because I missed it), instead of a grind like the 4th anni ship was?
And the method to their madness, as it were, is this:
If it's "hyper expensive" to buy - specifically lockbox and lobi ship - it's a free upgrade.
If it require(s/d) a major grind - the winter event 25 day races, the 14 or so day anniversary grind, then it gets a free path due to the "intense grindiness" to have gotten it.
If it cost zen to get, it'll cost zen to upgrade. Most fleet ships with a fleet module cost is considered "needing zen to have got", even if you bought your FM off the exchange - cause somebody invested zen to get it in the first place.
If you breathed and got it (freebie L40 ship. Sub-million-EC mirror version of same. One Mission and gotten ships like 'Basic' Oddy, 'Basic' Obelisk, Temporal ambassador ship) they can't upgrade.
The only exceptions to these rules is the 1000 day Vet ships - whether it's the fleet model that required an FM or the basic 1,000 day reward - she gets a free upgrade - probably cause it's a lifer / long term subscriber perk, and the Mirror Dhelan cause even though it's based off of a T5 Rommie C-store bird, it's still "cheaper than many other ships" on the Exchange / high odds of winning one...
And note, while the 9 console "grindiversary" DSD is "free" to upgrade, the C-store ones, whether bought individually, as a racial pack, or that massive 9 ship pack - are individual paid upgrades...
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
This is a repost of my original with some changed wording and added quotes & comments.
I think that there are alot of very excellent comments and suggestions being made both for and against their X2 update. I am not against this update, i welcome it, we need new content to keep our game going and to keep existing and attract new players, HOWEVER, the method and the details (as of now) that they using to bring about this upgrade need SERIOUS attention and changes.
Seems like a calculated risk by a very cynical company who thinks they know their players. It could work in their favor and the naysayers like me will be the minority. Or it could blow up in their face like the poorly received Galaxy refit (recent) or it could be something in between.
Frankly between the numerous new grids, crafting, leveling of ships and all the other work they are adding with X2, I think the joy has been sucked out of this game. Couldn't even work up the enthusiasm to do the CE today and yesterday ... and that event is super easy and generous.
Charging people for upgrades is okay (assuming $5 or $10). Making the upgraded ships inferior to T6 (significantly in my opinion) + lack of revamped canon ships is NOT.
But whatever ... fanbois are salivating over these announcements.
yes. my fleet for a few months has about 6 active members and before that 3 to 4. in a few months we went from barely T2 level to starting T 4. we were so looking forward to getting fleet version of our favorite ships. Our fleets head main leaders are both lifers since beta and they are LIVID. why both getting any fleet ship after this and now even our mirror ships with is about half my fleet are not upgradable. Thus the MAIN INSENTIVE for people coming into our fleet is now gone. The fact that in 12 hours this thread has gone to 108 pages and now going beyond. Most of it negative. Many feel this is going to be the worse patch ever. Heck about 5 of us spent minutes talking about the fed t6 ship on their new article. Not one of us like it. It's not FED and many of us know ship modelers that can do a much better job in this. I worked on Star Trek Legacy Ultimate Universe mod and was one of the orginal 3 that worked on the Sins mod Star trek Armada 3. so we know ship designs. what Crypic is bringing out is completely garbage on the fed front.
I agree with you. Although I'm not a PvP person myself nor do I think PvP is of any major concern but aside from that you are 100% correct. We have all paid and ground for what we have. We ARE NOT going to do that again. Think about it, why pay to grind? Why should we have to grind at all? It realm makes no sense and neither does this new expansion.
You both are right, this affects not only the PvP crowd the the majority of the player base PvE crowd. We have all spent time and a HUGE chunk of money investing in the current ships and outfitting them. Charging ANY amount of money to upgrade these ships is a huge pimp slap to the face, especially to a level that is not equal/barely half that of the new proposed ships and is extremely insulting.
I have been around since beta and have see this game go thru all of its changes and as of late the main thing I am seeing is more and more of a money sink being created, I understand the need to make money, but there is a defined line between making money and scamming/ripping off the players and what I see being posted is on the latter.
Every ship is this game that comes from the C-store, fleet, lockbox, the exuberantly over priced lobi ships, AND THE MIRROR SHIPS require a monetary investment and in more cases than should be, a huge one. ALL of these ships should be an immediate FREE upgrade to T-6.
The other ships like the event ships and the special/promotional ships that we have been given should NOT be a T6 upgrade as no money was spent on them & should have an upgrade cost to them, T5-U should be ONLY DILITHIUM, and NOT an exuberant amount either, less for the event/promotional ships and more for the 'normal' ships, then give the option to upgrade the promotional/event ships to T-6 for a SMALL Zen cost, for example A(1) FSM. 'Normal' ships would remain at a T5-U status. Not being able to upgrade a ship i love and fly at all is at best insulting.
For example I have 8 characters and only 2 of them fly the same ship, at your current 'suggestion' I would have to pay an additional $35-$70 to allow my char's to have ONE(1) 'upgraded' ship, they all have at least 4 ships that 'qualify' to upgrade, thats an additional min.$20-$40(more like 80-100) not to mention the money spent to purchase said ships. I should not be forced to pay the kind of money you are suggesting to half-assed upgrade one ship for EACH character.
We want a game to play with updated content, you want players and need money to keep game going with content, going about things the way they are being described at this point is, for a lack of better terms....... bad business...
Don't alienate the vast majority of your players by FORCING them to pay money to upgrade ships that in some cases have cost $30+, especially when many of them are active subscribers.
Think about what you are doing, THINK ABOUT THE PLAYERS, think about the game, think about what people have been paying for and using for 4 years, then think what the 'average' player would be willing to put out for ship upgrades and or new ships, NOT the moneybags or diehard PvP'ers, and then base the costs accordingly.
Its not rocket science, it's common sense, use it before it's too late.
Wow bud. You're tone suggests that you're someone with a lot of disposable income or someone who has never bought a c-store ship ever - that or you just missed that guys' point.
Myself as an example:
I have the Galaxy Pack, the Oddy Pack, the Scimi Pack, the B'Rel and the Mogh. Like many others, I didn't blow that $200 on Zen to have the 3RD BEST tiered ships in the game. To potentially make me pay another $55-$110 (depending on the $5 or $10 charge to upgrade to T5-U) just to keep them all 'competitive' is pretty bastardly IMO - that doesn't even take into account the money I've blown buying zen for modules on fleet variants.
I'll give the launch of this season a shot, but right now I'm of the opinion that STO just got the gold medal in 'Uncool Olympics'.
Another example of the investment we have already made, some less than a month ago, that's some real fine business sense on your part, telling people that just spent upwards of $50 on ships that they will have to spend even more to be able to use them in a diminished capacity instead of their top of the line role they now have.
It would appear that STO is developing a revolt. Everyone from those who started out when STO came out, life members, and the free to play, are telling STO this Tier 6 deal and the Tier 5 upgrade deal is over the top. The question is whether or not STO will listen and take heed.
Leveling up and gather a new ship is one thing, but making the not so long ago released top of the line ships into obsolete, especially for those who just got them and have not even been able to max out their potential yet, is not selling. Upgrading some ships that turns out to not even be an upgrade isn't selling at all. Will the Devs listen and act?
One can only wonder when the Devs will finally get around to fixing the exchange since it's been messed up since 9 was released. This happens every time they come out with a new season and yet for some reason there seems to be no motivation to correct the errors generated by them. So now we have a defective product that's being turned upside down and people are supposed to be happy about this?
I'm really curious to see how PWE can ignore 142 pages and counting of absolutely unhappy players. Will that unlock Geko insulting the playerbase again? Hopefully not. Will it result in anything changing. Probably not. We all need to keep our money in our wallets and vote that way. Revenue is the only way to ensure they don't make asinine moves like this again in the future.
Actually its more in the line of 200 pages/2000 posts, not a small number, and just a guess but mabey 1/3 of the players actually look at the forums and even less post.
And your suggestion is a great one, sadly however, there are many people out there that have neverending bank accounts, no lives, no bills, etc: that can and will spend-spend-spend to have the best, no matter the cost, and THAT is what Cryptic/PWE is counting on and rely's on, instead they should count and rely on the average person that works and has bills and has a life when they want to add things to the game, not their bank accounts.
Its been 4 years and we still have worthless customer support(seriously up to 3 weeks for a copy/paste reply saying that in no way will they refund/compensate/replace ANY item or currency in the game----just....pathetic...),no readily available phone support, tech or otherwise, no actual GM's not even online much less in-game, 'known' bugs being refused to be fixed, pretty much worthless report/ticket/bug system, the list goes on... where do you think all the money they make goes, creating more content to make them even more money, as of late pretty much all new content is a cash grab, or has a cash grab element to it.
Foe example the 'new' ship they released, the skin was already in the game, they yanked it, only to create a cash grab for the the skin that was already there, and as with many other 'bug's" are letting people keep the skin so only those that did not notice the 'bug/discrepancy' have to pay, now yes there is a console as well, so with the bomb drop we get about ships they have the nerve to charge 1k Zen for a skin and a console.
My bet is they will put our complaints in a neat pile labeled "Vocal Minority" - and BURN it.
In all honesty I don't think they will even give them that much attention, if we go by their track record, most things we say that makes sense, that are a good compromise of what we want and they want us to have, things that will improve OVERALL game play (list goes on) is usually put on the back burner or simply ignored and they instead listen to small percentage of players that have deep pockets and/or no life/job.
Haters will hate, but in the end the 2500+ comments about how Cryptic/PWE want to implement this update/expansion hold true, it is wrong, it needs changed BEFORE it is released(push back the release if need be),(( something not mentioned is that it needs to be tested with a LIVE SERVER CLONE by ALL players not just the ones that can afford gold status, for no less than 30 full days)), it needs to be a SUITABLE compromise between an ability to make them money and not TRIBBLE off 3/4 of their players(as i suggested/outlined in my orig post).
If they do decide to continue with their current line of action and thinking, within the near future I foresee them alienating the majority of the people that make them money and the game dies, if we are lucky it gets sold to someone else, or they completely break the game due to their utter refusal to fix the broken stuff and failure to properly test new stuff causing more broken stuff and in the end no game for us.
As I said previously, its not rocket science, its common sense, get it and use it before it is too late..
I tip my hat to you sir. You have laid out what cryptic/PWE refuses to understand about us, the players. I hope you, or someone else re-posts this so that someone might actually take action from it. It's a long shot, but it's all we got
Just a thought here on the T5-Us. With the scaling HP, wouldn't you have to upgrade almost immediately to get the full effect? Otherwise, lets say you upgrade at 52, wouldn't you miss out on the scaling HP for 2 levels which would mean less HP than someone who upgraded right off the bat? If this is true, than we really are being forced to upgrade in order to get our money's worth.
Hit points are based on captain level and not the degree of mastery. Does not matter when the upgrade is done. (this info is on the T5-upgrades FAQ at the bottom of the blog)
Who has a link they can post on these supposed T6 ships the devs are working on?
Seen some comments that they are ugly, but yet i cant find nothing on them anywhere, which makes me think some people are talkin smack
I believe God created the universe, because he knew we wanted to explore. So, he made us a playground...
while the posts are getting longer and more off topic with the increasing number of pages on this thread id like to point out that i dont remember a single incident where cryptic corrected or adjusted something that was originally announced by them (no matter how many people complained).
No Cryptic dev ever showed any interest in what the players think.
You can consider this a given fact.
No cryptic dev team member will read through +2500 posts of negative comments, hundreds of comments on facebook with practically the same content or countless other STO forums and communities where players express how much they dislike season 10 already.
The Developers are living in their own little world and simply give a damn about what the players think, want or need.
It would seriously surprise me if a STO developer would prove me wrong and takes part in a process to find a solution that is acceptable for both sides (players and the company).
What the developers probably ignore completely is that they want to sell a product and that the players are their customers. This is the base condition between cryptic and the players.
If Cryptic would finally realize this, it could be already considered a progress.
Because its a "natural law" that happy customers spend more money for a product while unhappy customers sooner or later decide for a different product or a different seller.
In conclusion Cryptic should be very careful how to treat the constomers. Fair treatment should be obligatory.
Being aware of Cryptic being a company which wants to sell something to customers leads to the next unavoidable conclusion. The principle of supply and demand.
Only if cryptic is offering what the players want or need the company would sell their products. If thats not the case the customers (players) will go somewhere else.
As it looks today Cryptic gives a damn about what the players want, what they need or if they are happy with the provided product. Only Cryptic could change this fact... if they would care.
In the meantime the customers can do only one thing to remind Cryptic on the priciples above: they dont buy the product.
There are still some ships and other items on the c-store that i wanted to buy (for a bit more then 12000 Zen actually). But that was before Cryptic decided to rob me and decided to treat a good and loyal customer like a punching ball.
No money from me anymore. Thats the only logical reaction.
If enough people see it the same way and act in the same way even the cryptic devs will notice what they did wrong when they look at the sale numbers.
Maybe - the level of stupidity in this thread - overall - is grating on me. Maybe because it seems I'm fighting on three fronts and all three are in "ignore / ad hominem / write off / just give me what I want" mode...
Front #1:
Yes, this front is all about charging for T5 starship upgrades. Those in my point #1, of which you seem to be a member, firmly believe that there should be no charge for the upgrade...
I've cited, directly to refute this point/belief, what happened in Season 6 when Fleet ships came out (note, not a single T5+1 got a free ride), and 5-modifier Fleet Mk XIIs "invalidated" 4 modifier ones. I also used a touch of math (that has yet to be refuted despite me repeating it 3 times) that lockbox and lobi ships are tremendous cash cows that "sorta deserve" the special treatment in that they've easily made amounts of money that are multiples above what a T6 ship is anticipated to bring - and how not factoring this amount of money could kill said method of income, and highlighted how the "grind" ships "qualify" for free upgrades so that a path to "free T5U / T6 comprability" can be attained if the prerequisites has been met... I still seek direct refutation of these points, or examples as to why precedent should be changed in this instance (and potentially future instances).
Front #2:
T5U vs T6.
As I think of it instead of just firing off in response, some of the numbers I'm coming up with are conjecture, based primarily somewhat on previous examples done, game history, but based a lot off of this:
And the blog. As the blog's chart shows, T6 gets +1 console over "T5". Now, if T6s are 10 console ships, the -1 must be a 9 console "base". Looking over the shiplist and our arbitrary-ish classifications, the T5 "basic" ships (RSV, DSSV, Patrol Escort, Advanced Escort, Original Assault Cruiser, Star Cruiser) and T5+1s ("iconic" retrofits, Nebula, MVAE, etc.) are 9 console ships, but don't significantly differ in things like hull strength, shields, etc. Hence, T6 is "upgrading" from the "baseline" T5s...
Now, I can't find these exactly right now, but I vaguely recall reading somewhere that:
1. The reason that they've even generated "scaling HP" is so that, at 50, a T5 and a T6 will be "comparable", but by 60 the T6 outclasses the basic T5.
1A. Since the whole goal of T5U is to make "comparable" to T6, one would figure that the same bonuses applied during the 50-60 T6 growth would apply to 50-60 T5U growth.
2. While the "exact amount of growth" is purely conjecture, if both T5(+1) and T6 start equal, and to be "comparable" the growths are identical, and a T5.5 would grow like a T5(+1), then a T5.5 - being +10% bigger than a T5(+1) - the resultant T5U11 would be at least 10% bigger than a T6 in Hull/shield mods after the upgrade and (identical) growths are applied.
Yep. I'll (readmit) conjecture - that the difference between a T6 at 50 and the T6 at 60 will be +10%. It just seems like such a nice number, and reflective of the "historical" precedent set with T5 to T5.5. The one number hinted at in the blog itself shows a 35,000 to 40,000 hull point growth, which is more akin to a 7% boost, and advertised to be an example only, exact numbers have yet to be determined...
Still, in this argument I am attempting to cull fears that "separate but equal is never equal", and highlighting that, for now, there's a high possibility that it will work out in the end - especially if one nabs a T6 ship or one of those alternate-acquired starship traits - early in these arguments I said (and still do) that the exact level of "competitiveness / comprability" rides on the final T6 ship and specialist BOff specs, especially where that 13th BOff power lands. We need that information to truly decide if we're equal or not, and really, if one side wants to conjecture so bad that T5U is full of suck without hard numbers, can't the other one conjecture that T5U is going to be "as advertised" or mayhap unintentionally better?
Front #3:
Dispose of T5U altogether and give everyone a trip (free or paid) to T6. This front I shoot down with a logic chain of "since day 1 it was told to us that we're getting separate but equal T5U and T6. Also, if you notice, all of T5 is canon, semi-canon, and made to look canon starships, where canon is an adjective that describes the fact that the ships - for the most part - look like something that was on screen and/or could have been on screen." Not whether or not the Vesta became "hard canon" or that a future Prime Universe TV series set after 2410 would have to reference the Romulan Republic and it's Scimitar Flagship type canon.
Especially since the demonstrated T6 Feds are "nowhere near" any level of "established Star Trek Look" - aka Canon-icity...
And the first reply to this completely misread my argument and attempted to cite weapon types (canon vs cannon). I attempted clarification, and now I'm shoehorning ships / game / storyline into levels of canon that attempts to match the shows / movies. Yep, complete misunderstandings do tend to roil the old blood here some.
With this hopefully understood, let me re-phrase the whole argument attempting to avoid the word "Canon".
We already know that the T6 starships being introduced look nothing like anything ever related to Star Trek before, ever.
We also know, both from human nature and the very nature of this argument, that Star Trek Fans prefer their "iconic" ships from the shows & movies, barring that at least something kitbashed from Star Trek ship parts, or at least built to closely resemble other Star Trek Ships. Many Star Trek Gamers would gravitate to the "from screen" ships over even the "kitbashed / lookalike" ships unless the non-screen ships were given significant levels of in-game power above and beyond those that were shown on the screen before. Look at the thousands of posts requesting/arguing/demanding the improvement of a specific ship that was the primary vessel of the crew in TNG - then the thousands of posts saying that the improvement was not enough. Interspersed within those series of posts is a lot of "go fly that ship Cryptic got a fan design to "replace" the TV ship as flagship of the fleet" and/or "you know, this particular ship made to look like something from the TV's Federation and has the game stats of what the KDF usually flies" with a touch of "buy this cruiser that can be made to look like the next version of that TV ship, but from the movies"
Hence, the progression. Ship that has actually seen screen time preferred more than a ship that was built with a mixmash of parts from on-screen ships which is preferred over something that looks like it might have been on screen at some point.
With this fact in mind, the only "encouragement" that can be given to fly those "completely never seen on screen" designs would be to make them a whole tier above the "looks like the TV show or directly from TV show" stuff. Even then, after flying a few rounds in that "oddball" ship, Trek gamers can earn that "exclusive trait", which would carry over to their upgraded "looks like or came from the screen" ship - leaving the new BOff type and extra 13th power behind to do so - especially if the claims that "these Tier 5 starships" will be comparable to the T6s in the remaining stats (aka potentially improved hull strength, shields, extra console being "worth" that 13th BOff power, and 4 levels of mastery)...
Does this mean that said gamer would, potentially, have to pay twice, one full price T6 entry and a second - minor - payment that hopefully would only cover the difference between prior investment(s) and the "full price of T6"? Yep. But then again, only half of the T5 stuff that can come "for free" is "screen or story" based, specifically the Advanced Escort (Prometheus), DSSV (Titan), and Assault Cruiser, Sovereign Model. Flying any other "from screen or story or even looks like a screen" ship meant a cash investment to begin with, so the precedent to pay is already there...
Again, seeking clarification that the playerbase is not like this, that I'm completely misreading the overall intent of those 4,000 posts and that the playerbase is gravitating to "blue hulled Scanline Federation ships" because Cryptic's designing them, not because they're carrying the next best game mechanic since sliced bread...
Okay, the reason why you are fighting a war on three fronts is because of the fact. When you recite something. It first off has to be relative to the business of Perfectworld running as a company. I understand yes you are quoting the means of a business and also the relation to the upgrade fees. But what makes it difficult for you is this:
You continue in your relentless preaching of loss of profits for Perfectworld. Which might be relative still is open to conjecture when Virusdancer already debunked your all knowing theory on that one.
You also continued rambling on the business regarding Perfectworld which by what the past five pages clearly was "Warping" the conversation of Perfectworld as a company and away from the thread, that it even make Q yawn at it and turn you into a Mariachi Band. So sorry Dareau but you brought that upon yourself.
Lets see here, how many times have you referred someone or even the people on this forum as "stupid" already? Oh wait!
Maybe - the level of stupidity in this thread - overall - is grating on me. Maybe because it seems I'm fighting on three fronts and all three are in "ignore / ad hominem / write off / just give me what I want" mode...
There we go, I am not surprised even a Moderator looked at this one. Check Please!
Yes, this front is all about charging for T5 starship upgrades. Those in my point #1, of which you seem to be a member, firmly believe that there should be no charge for the upgrade...
You take context and certainly like to label and sterotype people solely on the fact that when someone states an opinion that you don't like you have to label them as, "of which you seem to be a member". Honestly this is not looking good on your part.
Including taking such a conversation and turning it into a personal crusade which you feel you have to get the last word on and flood the forums about as well.
Front #2:
T5U vs T6.
As I think of it instead of just firing off in response, some of the numbers I'm coming up with are conjecture, based primarily somewhat on previous examples done, game history, but based a lot off of this:
Yeah I do give credit you are throwing out numbers, but numbers that have we even heard more from Perfectworld about Tier 6 starships? Nope! So basically all previous data from say oh Season 6 to now is all more or less a weatherman's forecast on the weather for the next 2 months based upon relative phenomenon for the past 3 years. So basically it's a TRIBBLE shoot at this point Dareau.
Until "Perfectworld" confirms it your argument is flooding the forums and preaching "what if's".
Yep. I'll (readmit) conjecture - that the difference between a T6 at 50 and the T6 at 60 will be +10%. It just seems like such a nice number, and reflective of the "historical" precedent set with T5 to T5.5. The one number hinted at in the blog itself shows a 35,000 to 40,000 hull point growth, which is more akin to a 7% boost, and advertised to be an example only, exact numbers have yet to be determined...
Oh look you just admitted conjecture, how cute....................at this point right now you want to argue all the technical specs regarding the ships to try to show how much of an authority you are on STO. Please do everyone a favor, if you love STO and Perfectworld? Either talk to your Stock Broker about investing? Or just get up from the computer and work for them.
Again lingering the conversation, making conjecture, and claiming all points are valid and
"canon". Illogical.
And the first reply to this completely misread my argument and attempted to cite weapon types (canon vs cannon). I attempted clarification, and now I'm shoehorning ships / game / storyline into levels of canon that attempts to match the shows / movies. Yep, complete misunderstandings do tend to roil the old blood here some.
With this hopefully understood, let me re-phrase the whole argument attempting to avoid the word "Canon".
If you simply want to avoid ~Whispers~ the word "canon". You shouldn't have slinged it around like it was a Jerry Springer Bleep Fest when you made your arguments. Wait you have no one to blame for that except yourself.
Drifting away from Thread.
Front #3:
Dispose of T5U altogether and give everyone a trip (free or paid) to T6. This front I shoot down with a logic chain of "since day 1 it was told to us that we're getting separate but equal T5U and T6. Also, if you notice, all of T5 is canon, semi-canon, and made to look canon starships, where canon is an adjective that describes the fact that the ships - for the most part - look like something that was on screen and/or could have been on screen." Not whether or not the Vesta became "hard canon" or that a future Prime Universe TV series set after 2410 would have to reference the Romulan Republic and it's Scimitar Flagship type canon.
Again with the Canon, Dareau, Dareau. Okay, the only reason again why if anything is canon is because again "CBS owns all controlling, trademark, and copyrights to Star Trek itself. Yes the own the label, logo, and name." So if for one moment Perfectworld did something, "Outside the norms?" Then CBS could have them for dinner. Understand it, Perfectworld is on their leash. So actually your arguments about Bean Counters and PWE Overlords is that actually well Perfectworld is servants to the CBS Overloads. Really you need to take a break.
Does this mean that said gamer would, potentially, have to pay twice, one full price T6 entry and a second - minor - payment that hopefully would only cover the difference between prior investment(s) and the "full price of T6"? Yep. But then again, only half of the T5 stuff that can come "for free" is "screen or story" based, specifically the Advanced Escort (Prometheus), DSSV (Titan), and Assault Cruiser, Sovereign Model. Flying any other "from screen or story or even looks like a screen" ship meant a cash investment to begin with, so the precedent to pay is already there...
Again, lengthing on and on about canon and comparison to T5 and T6. Really you must have an obsession with Canon. Now about half the stuff being free? Okay lets look at this.
1: Lock Box Keys= Purchased off Exchange IF you have the EC. Otherwise Pay Zen for it.
2: Fleet Ships= Fleet Modules and Fleet Credits as well as Dylithium. Okay so Fleet Modules can be purchased from Exchange but again IF you have the EC. Fleet Credits that would be earned through Fleet Projects, which in turn is earned through joining a fleet. So that means grinding, yup that's "Sweat Equity". Nope not free so far.
3: Z Store Starships: Only purchased through the Z Store.
Well let me say this YOU must be one of THEM that peffer to tell everyone to shove it and just "Pay or Grind", that "an MMO cannot exist as a Non-Monetization System", and to show your Star Trek Patriotic Duty to this game, "Cite statistics" to show how much you know more than everyone else, get the last word, lengthen an argument which by this point again several times lead away from the thread. And still call Perfectworld, "PWE Overlords" and "Beancounters" just to make a point? And may I also add overly obsessive about STO being "canon" when you contradicted yourself or well procrastinate in this case citing, "Trying to avoid using the word canon".
Yup enough said you need something more constructive to do with yourself. Check Please!
This is a repost of my original with some changed wording and added quotes & comments.
I think that there are alot of very excellent comments and suggestions being made both for and against their X2 update. I am not against this update, i welcome it, we need new content to keep our game going and to keep existing and attract new players, HOWEVER, the method and the details (as of now) that they using to bring about this upgrade need SERIOUS attention and changes.
You both are right, this affects not only the PvP crowd the the majority of the player base PvE crowd. We have all spent time and a HUGE chunk of money investing in the current ships and outfitting them. Charging ANY amount of money to upgrade these ships is a huge pimp slap to the face, especially to a level that is not equal/barely half that of the new proposed ships and is extremely insulting.
I have been around since beta and have see this game go thru all of its changes and as of late the main thing I am seeing is more and more of a money sink being created, I understand the need to make money, but there is a defined line between making money and scamming/ripping off the players and what I see being posted is on the latter.
Every ship is this game that comes from the C-store, fleet, lockbox, the exuberantly over priced lobi ships, AND THE MIRROR SHIPS require a monetary investment and in more cases than should be, a huge one. ALL of these ships should be an immediate FREE upgrade to T-6.
The other ships like the event ships and the special/promotional ships that we have been given should NOT be a T6 upgrade as no money was spent on them & should have an upgrade cost to them, T5-U should be ONLY DILITHIUM, and NOT an exuberant amount either, less for the event/promotional ships and more for the 'normal' ships, then give the option to upgrade the promotional/event ships to T-6 for a SMALL Zen cost, for example A(1) FSM. 'Normal' ships would remain at a T5-U status. Not being able to upgrade a ship i love and fly at all is at best insulting.
For example I have 8 characters and only 2 of them fly the same ship, at your current 'suggestion' I would have to pay an additional $35-$70 to allow my char's to have ONE(1) 'upgraded' ship, they all have at least 4 ships that 'qualify' to upgrade, thats an additional min.$20-$40(more like 80-100) not to mention the money spent to purchase said ships. I should not be forced to pay the kind of money you are suggesting to half-assed upgrade one ship for EACH character.
We want a game to play with updated content, you want players and need money to keep game going with content, going about things the way they are being described at this point is, for a lack of better terms....... bad business...
Don't alienate the vast majority of your players by FORCING them to pay money to upgrade ships that in some cases have cost $30+, especially when many of them are active subscribers.
Think about what you are doing, THINK ABOUT THE PLAYERS, think about the game, think about what people have been paying for and using for 4 years, then think what the 'average' player would be willing to put out for ship upgrades and or new ships, NOT the moneybags or diehard PvP'ers, and then base the costs accordingly.
Its not rocket science, it's common sense, use it before it's too late.
Another example of the investment we have already made, some less than a month ago, that's some real fine business sense on your part, telling people that just spent upwards of $50 on ships that they will have to spend even more to be able to use them in a diminished capacity instead of their top of the line role they now have.
My above and below comments apply to this Quote
Actually its more in the line of 200 pages/2000 posts, not a small number, and just a guess but mabey 1/3 of the players actually look at the forums and even less post.
And your suggestion is a great one, sadly however, there are many people out there that have neverending bank accounts, no lives, no bills, etc: that can and will spend-spend-spend to have the best, no matter the cost, and THAT is what Cryptic/PWE is counting on and rely's on, instead they should count and rely on the average person that works and has bills and has a life when they want to add things to the game, not their bank accounts.
Its been 4 years and we still have worthless customer support(seriously up to 3 weeks for a copy/paste reply saying that in no way will they refund/compensate/replace ANY item or currency in the game----just....pathetic...),no readily available phone support, tech or otherwise, no actual GM's not even online much less in-game, 'known' bugs being refused to be fixed, pretty much worthless report/ticket/bug system, the list goes on... where do you think all the money they make goes, creating more content to make them even more money, as of late pretty much all new content is a cash grab, or has a cash grab element to it.
Foe example the 'new' ship they released, the skin was already in the game, they yanked it, only to create a cash grab for the the skin that was already there, and as with many other 'bug's" are letting people keep the skin so only those that did not notice the 'bug/discrepancy' have to pay, now yes there is a console as well, so with the bomb drop we get about ships they have the nerve to charge 1k Zen for a skin and a console.
In all honesty I don't think they will even give them that much attention, if we go by their track record, most things we say that makes sense, that are a good compromise of what we want and they want us to have, things that will improve OVERALL game play (list goes on) is usually put on the back burner or simply ignored and they instead listen to small percentage of players that have deep pockets and/or no life/job.
Haters will hate, but in the end the 2500+ comments about how Cryptic/PWE want to implement this update/expansion hold true, it is wrong, it needs changed BEFORE it is released(push back the release if need be),(( something not mentioned is that it needs to be tested with a LIVE SERVER CLONE by ALL players not just the ones that can afford gold status, for no less than 30 full days)), it needs to be a SUITABLE compromise between an ability to make them money and not TRIBBLE off 3/4 of their players(as i suggested/outlined in my orig post).
If they do decide to continue with their current line of action and thinking, within the near future I foresee them alienating the majority of the people that make them money and the game dies, if we are lucky it gets sold to someone else, or they completely break the game due to their utter refusal to fix the broken stuff and failure to properly test new stuff causing more broken stuff and in the end no game for us.
As I said previously, its not rocket science, its common sense, get it and use it before it is too late..
Hello, and thank you Kryptkpr! The very same thing I have been saying as well as a lot of other people been saying on this thread as well. Feels like "In Living Color" skit "Mo Money, Mo Money, Mo Money". XD
When we first discussed increasing the level cap, one of the questions we first asked ourselves was What happens to Tier 5 ships?
Players have been invested in this tier of ships for 4 years and we wanted to avoid devaluing the time and money spent in obtaining them.
We wanted a fair solution instead of requiring players to absolutely need to obtain or purchase a whole new suite of starships for a new tier of content as we have in the past.
Weve approached starships very differently for the level 50 to 60 band.
First, we will allow players to upgrade most Tier 5 starships they own to a T5-U version.
This upgraded starship receives many of the perks of a Tier 6 starships minus a few bells and whistles.
More on the specifics of this later.
Second, all existing content, all new story content, patrols and most queues will not require a Tier 6 or Upgraded Tier 5 starship.
Only the most challenging new level 60 content will strongly benefit from using an upgraded Tier 5 starship or a Tier 6 starship, however it will not strictly require it.
So basically the big issue here to address is the fact that if we want to do the "more challenging" level content which this might be speculative but kind of sounds like maybe STF's or something close to the lines the ships must be Tier V Upgrades or Tier VI for level 60 missions. So basically "as to put it" you want to do Lvl 60 content your ship must be payed to be upgraded or lvl 60. This is, "pay to meet with DR game mechanics". Enough said.
Upgrading a Tier 5 ship is easy.
First, you must be level 50 and at a starship selector NPC on a ground map.
When browsing your starships youll notice that qualifying Tier 5 ships will now have an upgrade button on the starships inventory screen.
Pressing this button will prompt you to pay a Zen cost (or possibly require an item with a Zen cost).
This cost will be significantly lower than if you were to purchase a Tier 6 ship from the Zen Store.
Completing this purchase will then immediately upgrade your ship and transfer any items on the T5 ship to the new upgraded ship.
It should be noted that some ships will be free to upgrade.
This includes things like many event reputation ships (like the Breen and Risian ships), all lockbox ships, all lobi store ships, and duty officer promotion ships like the JemHadar Attack Ship and Voth Bulwark Dreadnought Cruiser.
So basically yes "some" ships will be upgraded for free, HOWEVER WAIT THERE'S MORE! Ships very much like character respec will have the option to choose but "you have to pay zen" to get the upgraded ship. Enough Said.
As mentioned above, upgraded Tier 5 ships (or T5-U ships) will offer many of the same benefits provided by Tier 6 starships minus a few bells and whistles.
T5-U ships will feature a sizeable number of additional hit points that will increase as your captain levels up, an additional console slot, and four Starship Mastery levels.
As mentioned in the Tier 6 Starships blog, the Starship Mastery system represents your captain and crew mastering the starship and discovering its full capabilities over time.
All upgraded Tier 5 ships have the ability to become more powerful as the captain gains Skill Points.
This allows the starship to effectively Level Up.
T5-U starships start at level 0 and progress to level 4 as the captain plays the game normally.
At each level (up to the max level of 4), the starship gains a new passive ability that provides a sizeable boost to a stat like damage resistance, critical hit chance, or hit points.
These passive abilities are specific to the ship that has unlocked them, and each starship within a given category shares the same package of passive abilities.
As you can see, upgraded Tier 5 ships share many of the benefits of a Tier 6 starship with a few exceptions.
Below is a table that outlines precisely which benefits T5-U and T6 ships receive.
So what we have is yes you pay and upgrade, minus a few bells and whistles, "BUT" the overall consensis here is that you must again "pay zen" for your ship to compete with the "DR game mechanics".
*Upgraded Tier 5 starships and Tier 6 starships both have four passive abilities.
The fifth Starship Mastery level on Tier 6 ships unlocks the starships trait.
**All Tier 6 ships launching with Delta Rising will come with a Specialist Bridge Officer seat.
However, it should be noted that future Tier 6 ships may not always come with one.
A notable benefit of upgrading a Tier 5 ship is that the upgrade is available across your entire account.
Example: If I upgrade my Avenger Battlecruiser on my Starfleet tactical captain, I can upgrade an Avenger Battlecruiser from T5 to T5-U on any character that also owns this ship for free.
The vast majority of existing Tier 5 starships can be upgraded to T5-U granting the benefits mentioned above.
You can find an exhaustive list of all upgradeable ships here.
Our current plan is to release as many of the ships above as possible when Delta Rising launches.
Any ships on this list that arent available by launch will be rolled out in future updates until the entire list shown in the link above is available.
Q: How much Zen will it cost to upgrade my starship?
A: We have not finalized the cost, but it is likely to be somewhere between $5 and $10.
Q: Which ships will be free to upgrade?
A: All Lockbox and Lobi starships, 1000 Day Veteran Destroyers,
Duty Officer promotional starships, and the Dyson, Breen and Risian event starships will all qualify for a free T5-U upgrade.
Q: So, if I pay for an upgrade on a starship, that upgraded starship will be available to all my characters that can fly that ship?
A: Correct!
You only need to pay the upgrade fee once.
Q: What actions give skill points to increase my Starship Mastery level?
A: Only defeating enemy starships will yield skill points for your Starship Mastery.
Q: Will there be any story content that requires a T5-U or T6 starship?
A: Absolutely not.
Our goal here is to allow players to play through all of the games story content without requiring the purchase of a starship.
Owning one of these top notch ships will certainly give you an edge, but story content isnt designed to require these ships.
Q: Are the passive abilities between T5-U and T6 ships of the same ship category the same?
Or are the abilities found on the T6 ships better?
A: Starship Mastery passive abilities are identical between T5-U and T6 starships.
The only difference between these ships in Starship Mastery is that T6 ships have a Starship Trait that can be unlocked at Level 5 whereas T5-U ships Starship Mastery progression ends at Level 4 and they dont have a Starship Trait to be unlocked.
Please note that everything detailed here is subject to change due to feedback.
We also encourage you to hop onto our test server Tribble to experience this system first hand when it becomes available.
Phil Gorngonzolla Zeleski
Systems Lead
Star Trek Online
And there you have it........Tier V Upgrades, straight and cited from the dev blogs about cost, bells, whistles, and "actually" from "Systems Lead" Phil "Gorngonzolla" Zeleski himself. Need I say more? NO! The prosecution rest! Court Ajourned!
This is a repost of my original with some changed wording and added quotes & comments.
I think that there are alot of very excellent comments and suggestions being made both for and against their X2 update. I am not against this update, i welcome it, we need new content to keep our game going and to keep existing and attract new players, HOWEVER, the method and the details (as of now) that they using to bring about this upgrade need SERIOUS attention and changes.
You both are right, this affects not only the PvP crowd the the majority of the player base PvE crowd. We have all spent time and a HUGE chunk of money investing in the current ships and outfitting them. Charging ANY amount of money to upgrade these ships is a huge pimp slap to the face, especially to a level that is not equal/barely half that of the new proposed ships and is extremely insulting.
I have been around since beta and have see this game go thru all of its changes and as of late the main thing I am seeing is more and more of a money sink being created, I understand the need to make money, but there is a defined line between making money and scamming/ripping off the players and what I see being posted is on the latter.
Every ship is this game that comes from the C-store, fleet, lockbox, the exuberantly over priced lobi ships, AND THE MIRROR SHIPS require a monetary investment and in more cases than should be, a huge one. ALL of these ships should be an immediate FREE upgrade to T-6.
The other ships like the event ships and the special/promotional ships that we have been given should NOT be a T6 upgrade as no money was spent on them & should have an upgrade cost to them, T5-U should be ONLY DILITHIUM, and NOT an exuberant amount either, less for the event/promotional ships and more for the 'normal' ships, then give the option to upgrade the promotional/event ships to T-6 for a SMALL Zen cost, for example A(1) FSM. 'Normal' ships would remain at a T5-U status. Not being able to upgrade a ship i love and fly at all is at best insulting.
For example I have 8 characters and only 2 of them fly the same ship, at your current 'suggestion' I would have to pay an additional $35-$70 to allow my char's to have ONE(1) 'upgraded' ship, they all have at least 4 ships that 'qualify' to upgrade, thats an additional min.$20-$40(more like 80-100) not to mention the money spent to purchase said ships. I should not be forced to pay the kind of money you are suggesting to half-assed upgrade one ship for EACH character.
We want a game to play with updated content, you want players and need money to keep game going with content, going about things the way they are being described at this point is, for a lack of better terms....... bad business...
Don't alienate the vast majority of your players by FORCING them to pay money to upgrade ships that in some cases have cost $30+, especially when many of them are active subscribers.
Think about what you are doing, THINK ABOUT THE PLAYERS, think about the game, think about what people have been paying for and using for 4 years, then think what the 'average' player would be willing to put out for ship upgrades and or new ships, NOT the moneybags or diehard PvP'ers, and then base the costs accordingly.
Its not rocket science, it's common sense, use it before it's too late.
Another example of the investment we have already made, some less than a month ago, that's some real fine business sense on your part, telling people that just spent upwards of $50 on ships that they will have to spend even more to be able to use them in a diminished capacity instead of their top of the line role they now have.
My above and below comments apply to this Quote
Actually its more in the line of 200 pages/2000 posts, not a small number, and just a guess but mabey 1/3 of the players actually look at the forums and even less post.
And your suggestion is a great one, sadly however, there are many people out there that have neverending bank accounts, no lives, no bills, etc: that can and will spend-spend-spend to have the best, no matter the cost, and THAT is what Cryptic/PWE is counting on and rely's on, instead they should count and rely on the average person that works and has bills and has a life when they want to add things to the game, not their bank accounts.
Its been 4 years and we still have worthless customer support(seriously up to 3 weeks for a copy/paste reply saying that in no way will they refund/compensate/replace ANY item or currency in the game----just....pathetic...),no readily available phone support, tech or otherwise, no actual GM's not even online much less in-game, 'known' bugs being refused to be fixed, pretty much worthless report/ticket/bug system, the list goes on... where do you think all the money they make goes, creating more content to make them even more money, as of late pretty much all new content is a cash grab, or has a cash grab element to it.
Foe example the 'new' ship they released, the skin was already in the game, they yanked it, only to create a cash grab for the the skin that was already there, and as with many other 'bug's" are letting people keep the skin so only those that did not notice the 'bug/discrepancy' have to pay, now yes there is a console as well, so with the bomb drop we get about ships they have the nerve to charge 1k Zen for a skin and a console.
In all honesty I don't think they will even give them that much attention, if we go by their track record, most things we say that makes sense, that are a good compromise of what we want and they want us to have, things that will improve OVERALL game play (list goes on) is usually put on the back burner or simply ignored and they instead listen to small percentage of players that have deep pockets and/or no life/job.
Haters will hate, but in the end the 2500+ comments about how Cryptic/PWE want to implement this update/expansion hold true, it is wrong, it needs changed BEFORE it is released(push back the release if need be),(( something not mentioned is that it needs to be tested with a LIVE SERVER CLONE by ALL players not just the ones that can afford gold status, for no less than 30 full days)), it needs to be a SUITABLE compromise between an ability to make them money and not TRIBBLE off 3/4 of their players(as i suggested/outlined in my orig post).
If they do decide to continue with their current line of action and thinking, within the near future I foresee them alienating the majority of the people that make them money and the game dies, if we are lucky it gets sold to someone else, or they completely break the game due to their utter refusal to fix the broken stuff and failure to properly test new stuff causing more broken stuff and in the end no game for us.
As I said previously, its not rocket science, its common sense, get it and use it before it is too late..
It's sad but we are doing their job. It's their job to figure out compromise, it's their job to maintain the game and keep players enticed. It's their job NOT to "alienate" the mass majority of players and cause an exodus of this game. But we care about the game enough to do the job for them and they STILL don't listen. As a game design student, I know this to be true. If someone gets upset by what you said, they shouldn't be here. You, like anyone else, has the right to say your piece and that has no justification for starting a feud. Because how is a feud gonna help anything. It will only satisfy the ego of those who wish to defend Cryptic/PWE.
Second, all existing content, all new story content, patrols and most queues will not
require a Tier 6 or Upgraded Tier 5 starship. Only the most challenging new level 60
content will strongly benefit from using an upgraded Tier 5 starship
or a Tier 6 starship, however it will not strictly require it.
Thats a pretty clear statement i think, and based on cryptics attitude towards game
difficuly, ie they tend to avoid making it difficult so as not to affect the casual player,
i continue to find it amusing that people are still think the following...
So what we have is yes you pay and upgrade, minus a few bells and whistles, "BUT" the overall
consensis here is that you must again "pay zen" for your ship to compete with the "DR game
mechanics".
while the posts are getting longer and more off topic with the increasing number of pages on this thread id like to point out that i dont remember a single incident where cryptic corrected or adjusted something that was originally announced by them (no matter how many people complained).
No Cryptic dev ever showed any interest in what the players think.
You can consider this a given fact.
No cryptic dev team member will read through +2500 posts of negative comments, hundreds of comments on facebook with practically the same content or countless other STO forums and communities where players express how much they dislike season 10 already.
The Developers are living in their own little world and simply give a damn about what the players think, want or need.
It would seriously surprise me if a STO developer would prove me wrong and takes part in a process to find a solution that is acceptable for both sides (players and the company).
What the developers probably ignore completely is that they want to sell a product and that the players are their customers. This is the base condition between cryptic and the players.
If Cryptic would finally realize this, it could be already considered a progress.
Because its a "natural law" that happy customers spend more money for a product while unhappy customers sooner or later decide for a different product or a different seller.
In conclusion Cryptic should be very careful how to treat the constomers. Fair treatment should be obligatory.
Being aware of Cryptic being a company which wants to sell something to customers leads to the next unavoidable conclusion. The principle of supply and demand.
Only if cryptic is offering what the players want or need the company would sell their products. If thats not the case the customers (players) will go somewhere else.
As it looks today Cryptic gives a damn about what the players want, what they need or if they are happy with the provided product. Only Cryptic could change this fact... if they would care.
In the meantime the customers can do only one thing to remind Cryptic on the priciples above: they dont buy the product.
There are still some ships and other items on the c-store that i wanted to buy (for a bit more then 12000 Zen actually). But that was before Cryptic decided to rob me and decided to treat a good and loyal customer like a punching ball.
No money from me anymore. Thats the only logical reaction.
If enough people see it the same way and act in the same way even the cryptic devs will notice what they did wrong when they look at the sale numbers.
Here here!
They aren't even acknowledging us in this thread, which proves they dont give a damn! I think they are making the game THEY want to play.
Im done throwing money at them. They have missed out heaps because i know they dont listen. They will never listen because they are stubborn in what they want to do.
I read an article a long time ago that Cryptic didnt want to pursue MMO's, which is why they sold out to PWE, im just wondering if its the same xrew from back then and trying to purposely lose players so they can pull the plug. I think someone else said something similar in this thread.
But really, i dont think nothing is stopping them from pulling the plug.
This rubbish with T-5U should be T6, nothing more nothing less. T-5U is essentially the fleet ships we have currently. The fleet ships being T5.5 will essentially become T5.95. Both rubbish.
Anyone thats saying " they gotta sell T6 and wont because everyone is upgrading their T5 or T5.5 to T6 " is deluded. They will make money from us that upgrade from T5 or T5.5 to T6 and PLUS buying the new T6 ships because they are new.
There is no excuse why they cant do it, it is because they dont want to and are being stingy.
People want the T6 upgrade, give it to them and watch the complaints stop.
But also, if everyone has to pay for upgrades, then those that have lockboxed,lobi or event ships should have to pay as well, or make it free across the board.
As it stands, thanks for kicking me down as a customer Cryptic, you wont see a dime from me again unless you change your attitude toward us. Once bitten, twice shy
I believe God created the universe, because he knew we wanted to explore. So, he made us a playground...
while the posts are getting longer and more off topic with the increasing number of pages on this thread id like to point out that i dont remember a single incident where cryptic corrected or adjusted something that was originally announced by them (no matter how many people complained).
No Cryptic dev ever showed any interest in what the players think.
You can consider this a given fact.
No cryptic dev team member will read through +2500 posts of negative comments, hundreds of comments on facebook with practically the same content or countless other STO forums and communities where players express how much they dislike season 10 already.
The Developers are living in their own little world and simply give a damn about what the players think, want or need.
It would seriously surprise me if a STO developer would prove me wrong and takes part in a process to find a solution that is acceptable for both sides (players and the company).
What the developers probably ignore completely is that they want to sell a product and that the players are their customers. This is the base condition between cryptic and the players.
If Cryptic would finally realize this, it could be already considered a progress.
Because its a "natural law" that happy customers spend more money for a product while unhappy customers sooner or later decide for a different product or a different seller.
In conclusion Cryptic should be very careful how to treat the constomers. Fair treatment should be obligatory.
Being aware of Cryptic being a company which wants to sell something to customers leads to the next unavoidable conclusion. The principle of supply and demand.
Only if cryptic is offering what the players want or need the company would sell their products. If thats not the case the customers (players) will go somewhere else.
As it looks today Cryptic gives a damn about what the players want, what they need or if they are happy with the provided product. Only Cryptic could change this fact... if they would care.
In the meantime the customers can do only one thing to remind Cryptic on the priciples above: they dont buy the product.
There are still some ships and other items on the c-store that i wanted to buy (for a bit more then 12000 Zen actually). But that was before Cryptic decided to rob me and decided to treat a good and loyal customer like a punching ball.
No money from me anymore. Thats the only logical reaction.
If enough people see it the same way and act in the same way even the cryptic devs will notice what they did wrong when they look at the sale numbers.
actually if you think about how they've done things in the past they could have just
as easiliy done a T6 delta retrofit of all the tier 5/5.5 ships and charged full price for
them, as well as introducing thier new T6 ship lines, people are too busy screaming
at the way they have chosen to do this and havn't really considerd the many other
options they could have taken to pay for this expansion
Here here!
They aren't even acknowledging us in this thread, which proves they dont give a damn! I think they are making the game THEY want to play.
Im done throwing money at them. They have missed out heaps because i know they dont listen. They will never listen because they are stubborn in what they want to do.
I read an article a long time ago that Cryptic didnt want to pursue MMO's, which is why they sold out to PWE, im just wondering if its the same xrew from back then and trying to purposely lose players so they can pull the plug. I think someone else said something similar in this thread.
But really, i dont think nothing is stopping them from pulling the plug.
This rubbish with T-5U should be T6, nothing more nothing less. T-5U is essentially the fleet ships we have currently. The fleet ships being T5.5 will essentially become T5.95. Both rubbish.
Anyone thats saying " they gotta sell T6 and wont because everyone is upgrading their T5 or T5.5 to T6 " is deluded. They will make money from us that upgrade from T5 or T5.5 to T6 and PLUS buying the new T6 ships because they are new.
There is no excuse why they cant do it, it is because they dont want to and are being stingy.
People want the T6 upgrade, give it to them and watch the complaints stop.
But also, if everyone has to pay for upgrades, then those that have lockboxed,lobi or event ships should have to pay as well, or make it free across the board.
As it stands, thanks for kicking me down as a customer Cryptic, you wont see a dime from me again unless you change your attitude toward us. Once bitten, twice shy
Thats a pretty clear statement i think, and based on cryptics attitude towards game
difficuly, ie they tend to avoid making it difficult so as not to affect the casual player,
i continue to find it amusing that people are still think the following...
Ah yes, so lets see here.
All Lobi Store and Lock Box ships get free upgrades. If I understand this right is what you are saying, however.......................all C Store and Fleet Ships based of C Store are pay to upgrade?
So for you........................that's amusing.
Here's what I find amusing to your comment. BRILLIANT! NEXT!
I always wonndered what it was in english, so i just got on bing translator lol....i dont think they have done a real good job of translations in bing tho
I always wonndered what it was in english, so i just got on bing translator lol....i dont think they have done a real good job of translations in bing tho
Hear! Sons of Kahless.
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill.
Our lives burn short and bright,
Then we die with honor and join our fathers in the Black Fleet where
we battle forever, battling on through the Eternal fight.
Hear! Sons of Kahless.
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill.
Our lives burn short and bright,
Then we die with honor and join our fathers in the Black Fleet where
we battle forever, battling on through the Eternal fight.
Was about to ask the same thing lol.
Belanna is right, bing is hopeless, I was just looking myself and bing stuffed it all up lol
I believe God created the universe, because he knew we wanted to explore. So, he made us a playground...
Hear! Sons of Kahless.
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill.
Our lives burn short and bright,
Then we die with honor and join our fathers in the Black Fleet where
we battle forever, battling on through the Eternal fight.
dats nice, thankyou
i know i know, im klingon & dont know klingonese
Comments
Depending on how you look at it, they already have - as long as you did your part before, or are willing to put in the time as of right now...
To wit, there are 5 "event" ships that are on the list of "free upgrades" - both Breen ships (the winter event ones), both Risian ships (the summer event ones), and the "grindiversary" ship.
Being that all 5 are "fleet level" 10 console +10% hull/shield strength ships, aka T5.5, the "average" F2Per who can't afford / lacks the massive grind tolerance to acquire a "legit" T5.5 would have at least one of these 5 vessels as their "main" ship - because they are 100% free to acquire with appropriate 5 minutes a day over multiple preselected days grind invested.
Since they are on the list of T5U eligible, and would be "T5U11" in the parlance of this thread owing to their 10 console nature already - Cryptic has you covered.
If not, and you possess some sort of "legit" T5+1 or T5.5 (Fleet) ship acquired off the exchange(s), then with the foreshadowing of this announcement it's time to divert all Dil to the exchange to scrape up the Zen necessary to buy at least one upgrade. Here's hoping that it'll be a 500 zen purchase - so that you only have to divert 20 days of refining to the cause if (when) the exchange hits 320 dil to 1 zen...
Many would argue that if your best ship is the T5 "freebie" from L40, then you are already dragging on the team some and being stuck in that while they're all off in T5Us and T6s isn't gonna be "that much" of a difference... At least through the winter event, where you can grind yourself up one of the two winter ships...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
Tier 6 What we know:
First few ships will have specialist bridge officer slot
Scaling HP
Extra console slot
5 Mastery levels
Unlockable trait
Extra bridge officer ability
Not required for most PVP\PVE queues
Tier 6 What we dont know:
Everything else including stats
Tier 5-U What we know:
Which ships get it (preliminary, could still change)
4 Mastery levels
Extra console slot
Scaling HP
Can use traits, cant unlock them
No extra bridge officer ability
No specialist bridge officer slot
Will cost Zen to upgrade
Not required for most PVP\PVE queues
Tier 5-U What we dont know:
Exact Zen cost
Where the extra console goes
Level unlocks
The TL;DR version is that we dont know jack other then the process and what Tier 5-U gets to keep it on a close to even keel with T6. Anything beyond this is wild mass guessing and has as much chance to be right as wrong. None of it is even out on Tribble yet so we dont know anything about performance of the ships. Best to reserve judgment on this until we have solid facts, not jump to the conclusion that its going to be a rip off.
Three clarifications:
1. That "extra console slot" on the T6s is a 10th console slot - Gornzilla spelled that out directly in a previous post comparing T6s to Lockbox/fleet T5Us that start with 10 consoles and get a +1 console through the upgrade chart.
2. That 5th "mastery" slot on the T6s gives the trait that the T5Us can't unlock. Gornzilla said that a couple of times already. Reason that he's spelled it out is because too many people are seeing both the lack of a mastery level and the lack of the trait and think that they're "losing out on" two things, when in reality they're one and the same.
Your chart could read:
T6:
4 Mastery Levels
5th Mastery level that grants starship trait
T5U:
exactly as you have it...
3. Since T5Us scale as a T6 would, the T5U upgrade would be available at the same point that a baseline T6 would - which is L50. If the T5U went straight from "base" to "fully upgraded", it would be a L60 only unlock...
And since it's been stated (Gornzilla again?) that T5Us and T6s will scale directly to the player's level (so once player hits 60, all future T5U / T6 purchases will "scale" straight to max HP/shields). Again reaffirming the belief that the T5Us are gonna start at 50...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
It was stated in the blog post that the 5th mastery level would unlock the trait so the T6 ships for the purposes of the leveling of the ships it is a mastery level, just not one that gives a passive ability like the others. I think that is where some of the confusion comes from. It could have been stated better by Cryptic rather then as an * point which people might have ignored. I would say both are valid readings of it though.
The Ody is a serious part of in-game stories and for me personally as well, I think it's one of the best-looking ships in the game, and while the event version is not superior to the C-store version, it means something to me that it was obtained during the event.
Mind you, I'm still POed that one of my three main toons was bugged out of the event and could never get the ship. I was even saving up Zen to buy it for them, now I'm not even sure it will be worth it since I'd have to re-buy different versions over again and they *still* wouldn't quite be top-tier. And they cost a lot more now, and the ones I already own can't keep pace.
Yes, to some extent this always happens when you upgrade, but, seriously, why *most* T5 ships and not all? Why leave some people out?
Yes, I'd probably pay money for a T-6 Ody. Not sure I'd pay more money to replace an Ody I already have with a T-5u in a world of T-6s when Dyson ships and others get free or cheap upgrades.
It sure looks like just another irritating, arbitrary decision.
Irritating, yep. Arbitrary - nope.
First off, are you confusing the Mission Prize (event) Obelisk with the Advanced model that's in the Lobi store?
On that note, at the bottom of the list, I found this list of "T5 starships that aren't on the T5U upgrade path because they are:"
Hence why the mission Ambassador and "basic" Obelisk aren't on the list - episode reward.
The 9 Console Oddy is one of those "200,000 FCs and a module" down in the fleet yards - if you have a T5 shipyard or join a fleet with one for a few minutes... And wasn't it a one-off mission during the second anniversary? (I ask because I missed it), instead of a grind like the 4th anni ship was?
And the method to their madness, as it were, is this:
If it's "hyper expensive" to buy - specifically lockbox and lobi ship - it's a free upgrade.
If it require(s/d) a major grind - the winter event 25 day races, the 14 or so day anniversary grind, then it gets a free path due to the "intense grindiness" to have gotten it.
If it cost zen to get, it'll cost zen to upgrade. Most fleet ships with a fleet module cost is considered "needing zen to have got", even if you bought your FM off the exchange - cause somebody invested zen to get it in the first place.
If you breathed and got it (freebie L40 ship. Sub-million-EC mirror version of same. One Mission and gotten ships like 'Basic' Oddy, 'Basic' Obelisk, Temporal ambassador ship) they can't upgrade.
The only exceptions to these rules is the 1000 day Vet ships - whether it's the fleet model that required an FM or the basic 1,000 day reward - she gets a free upgrade - probably cause it's a lifer / long term subscriber perk, and the Mirror Dhelan cause even though it's based off of a T5 Rommie C-store bird, it's still "cheaper than many other ships" on the Exchange / high odds of winning one...
And note, while the 9 console "grindiversary" DSD is "free" to upgrade, the C-store ones, whether bought individually, as a racial pack, or that massive 9 ship pack - are individual paid upgrades...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
I think that there are alot of very excellent comments and suggestions being made both for and against their X2 update. I am not against this update, i welcome it, we need new content to keep our game going and to keep existing and attract new players, HOWEVER, the method and the details (as of now) that they using to bring about this upgrade need SERIOUS attention and changes.
You both are right, this affects not only the PvP crowd the the majority of the player base PvE crowd. We have all spent time and a HUGE chunk of money investing in the current ships and outfitting them. Charging ANY amount of money to upgrade these ships is a huge pimp slap to the face, especially to a level that is not equal/barely half that of the new proposed ships and is extremely insulting.
I have been around since beta and have see this game go thru all of its changes and as of late the main thing I am seeing is more and more of a money sink being created, I understand the need to make money, but there is a defined line between making money and scamming/ripping off the players and what I see being posted is on the latter.
Every ship is this game that comes from the C-store, fleet, lockbox, the exuberantly over priced lobi ships, AND THE MIRROR SHIPS require a monetary investment and in more cases than should be, a huge one. ALL of these ships should be an immediate FREE upgrade to T-6.
The other ships like the event ships and the special/promotional ships that we have been given should NOT be a T6 upgrade as no money was spent on them & should have an upgrade cost to them, T5-U should be ONLY DILITHIUM, and NOT an exuberant amount either, less for the event/promotional ships and more for the 'normal' ships, then give the option to upgrade the promotional/event ships to T-6 for a SMALL Zen cost, for example A(1) FSM. 'Normal' ships would remain at a T5-U status. Not being able to upgrade a ship i love and fly at all is at best insulting.
For example I have 8 characters and only 2 of them fly the same ship, at your current 'suggestion' I would have to pay an additional $35-$70 to allow my char's to have ONE(1) 'upgraded' ship, they all have at least 4 ships that 'qualify' to upgrade, thats an additional min.$20-$40(more like 80-100) not to mention the money spent to purchase said ships. I should not be forced to pay the kind of money you are suggesting to half-assed upgrade one ship for EACH character.
We want a game to play with updated content, you want players and need money to keep game going with content, going about things the way they are being described at this point is, for a lack of better terms....... bad business...
Don't alienate the vast majority of your players by FORCING them to pay money to upgrade ships that in some cases have cost $30+, especially when many of them are active subscribers.
Think about what you are doing, THINK ABOUT THE PLAYERS, think about the game, think about what people have been paying for and using for 4 years, then think what the 'average' player would be willing to put out for ship upgrades and or new ships, NOT the moneybags or diehard PvP'ers, and then base the costs accordingly.
Its not rocket science, it's common sense, use it before it's too late.
Another example of the investment we have already made, some less than a month ago, that's some real fine business sense on your part, telling people that just spent upwards of $50 on ships that they will have to spend even more to be able to use them in a diminished capacity instead of their top of the line role they now have.
My above and below comments apply to this Quote
Actually its more in the line of 200 pages/2000 posts, not a small number, and just a guess but mabey 1/3 of the players actually look at the forums and even less post.
And your suggestion is a great one, sadly however, there are many people out there that have neverending bank accounts, no lives, no bills, etc: that can and will spend-spend-spend to have the best, no matter the cost, and THAT is what Cryptic/PWE is counting on and rely's on, instead they should count and rely on the average person that works and has bills and has a life when they want to add things to the game, not their bank accounts.
Its been 4 years and we still have worthless customer support(seriously up to 3 weeks for a copy/paste reply saying that in no way will they refund/compensate/replace ANY item or currency in the game----just....pathetic...),no readily available phone support, tech or otherwise, no actual GM's not even online much less in-game, 'known' bugs being refused to be fixed, pretty much worthless report/ticket/bug system, the list goes on... where do you think all the money they make goes, creating more content to make them even more money, as of late pretty much all new content is a cash grab, or has a cash grab element to it.
Foe example the 'new' ship they released, the skin was already in the game, they yanked it, only to create a cash grab for the the skin that was already there, and as with many other 'bug's" are letting people keep the skin so only those that did not notice the 'bug/discrepancy' have to pay, now yes there is a console as well, so with the bomb drop we get about ships they have the nerve to charge 1k Zen for a skin and a console.
In all honesty I don't think they will even give them that much attention, if we go by their track record, most things we say that makes sense, that are a good compromise of what we want and they want us to have, things that will improve OVERALL game play (list goes on) is usually put on the back burner or simply ignored and they instead listen to small percentage of players that have deep pockets and/or no life/job.
Haters will hate, but in the end the 2500+ comments about how Cryptic/PWE want to implement this update/expansion hold true, it is wrong, it needs changed BEFORE it is released(push back the release if need be),(( something not mentioned is that it needs to be tested with a LIVE SERVER CLONE by ALL players not just the ones that can afford gold status, for no less than 30 full days)), it needs to be a SUITABLE compromise between an ability to make them money and not TRIBBLE off 3/4 of their players(as i suggested/outlined in my orig post).
If they do decide to continue with their current line of action and thinking, within the near future I foresee them alienating the majority of the people that make them money and the game dies, if we are lucky it gets sold to someone else, or they completely break the game due to their utter refusal to fix the broken stuff and failure to properly test new stuff causing more broken stuff and in the end no game for us.
As I said previously, its not rocket science, its common sense, get it and use it before it is too late..
Hit points are based on captain level and not the degree of mastery. Does not matter when the upgrade is done. (this info is on the T5-upgrades FAQ at the bottom of the blog)
Still waiting to be able to use forum titles
Seen some comments that they are ugly, but yet i cant find nothing on them anywhere, which makes me think some people are talkin smack
No Cryptic dev ever showed any interest in what the players think.
You can consider this a given fact.
No cryptic dev team member will read through +2500 posts of negative comments, hundreds of comments on facebook with practically the same content or countless other STO forums and communities where players express how much they dislike season 10 already.
The Developers are living in their own little world and simply give a damn about what the players think, want or need.
It would seriously surprise me if a STO developer would prove me wrong and takes part in a process to find a solution that is acceptable for both sides (players and the company).
What the developers probably ignore completely is that they want to sell a product and that the players are their customers. This is the base condition between cryptic and the players.
If Cryptic would finally realize this, it could be already considered a progress.
Because its a "natural law" that happy customers spend more money for a product while unhappy customers sooner or later decide for a different product or a different seller.
In conclusion Cryptic should be very careful how to treat the constomers. Fair treatment should be obligatory.
Being aware of Cryptic being a company which wants to sell something to customers leads to the next unavoidable conclusion. The principle of supply and demand.
Only if cryptic is offering what the players want or need the company would sell their products. If thats not the case the customers (players) will go somewhere else.
As it looks today Cryptic gives a damn about what the players want, what they need or if they are happy with the provided product. Only Cryptic could change this fact... if they would care.
In the meantime the customers can do only one thing to remind Cryptic on the priciples above: they dont buy the product.
There are still some ships and other items on the c-store that i wanted to buy (for a bit more then 12000 Zen actually). But that was before Cryptic decided to rob me and decided to treat a good and loyal customer like a punching ball.
No money from me anymore. Thats the only logical reaction.
If enough people see it the same way and act in the same way even the cryptic devs will notice what they did wrong when they look at the sale numbers.
Okay, the reason why you are fighting a war on three fronts is because of the fact. When you recite something. It first off has to be relative to the business of Perfectworld running as a company. I understand yes you are quoting the means of a business and also the relation to the upgrade fees. But what makes it difficult for you is this:
You continue in your relentless preaching of loss of profits for Perfectworld. Which might be relative still is open to conjecture when Virusdancer already debunked your all knowing theory on that one.
You also continued rambling on the business regarding Perfectworld which by what the past five pages clearly was "Warping" the conversation of Perfectworld as a company and away from the thread, that it even make Q yawn at it and turn you into a Mariachi Band. So sorry Dareau but you brought that upon yourself.
Lets see here, how many times have you referred someone or even the people on this forum as "stupid" already? Oh wait!
Hello, and thank you Kryptkpr! The very same thing I have been saying as well as a lot of other people been saying on this thread as well. Feels like "In Living Color" skit "Mo Money, Mo Money, Mo Money". XD
Players have been invested in this tier of ships for 4 years and we wanted to avoid devaluing the time and money spent in obtaining them.
We wanted a fair solution instead of requiring players to absolutely need to obtain or purchase a whole new suite of starships for a new tier of content as we have in the past.
Weve approached starships very differently for the level 50 to 60 band.
First, we will allow players to upgrade most Tier 5 starships they own to a T5-U version.
This upgraded starship receives many of the perks of a Tier 6 starships minus a few bells and whistles.
More on the specifics of this later.
Second, all existing content, all new story content, patrols and most queues will not require a Tier 6 or Upgraded Tier 5 starship.
Only the most challenging new level 60 content will strongly benefit from using an upgraded Tier 5 starship or a Tier 6 starship, however it will not strictly require it.
So basically the big issue here to address is the fact that if we want to do the "more challenging" level content which this might be speculative but kind of sounds like maybe STF's or something close to the lines the ships must be Tier V Upgrades or Tier VI for level 60 missions. So basically "as to put it" you want to do Lvl 60 content your ship must be payed to be upgraded or lvl 60. This is, "pay to meet with DR game mechanics". Enough said.
Upgrading a Tier 5 ship is easy.
First, you must be level 50 and at a starship selector NPC on a ground map.
When browsing your starships youll notice that qualifying Tier 5 ships will now have an upgrade button on the starships inventory screen.
Pressing this button will prompt you to pay a Zen cost (or possibly require an item with a Zen cost).
This cost will be significantly lower than if you were to purchase a Tier 6 ship from the Zen Store.
Completing this purchase will then immediately upgrade your ship and transfer any items on the T5 ship to the new upgraded ship.
It should be noted that some ships will be free to upgrade.
This includes things like many event reputation ships (like the Breen and Risian ships), all lockbox ships, all lobi store ships, and duty officer promotion ships like the JemHadar Attack Ship and Voth Bulwark Dreadnought Cruiser.
So basically yes "some" ships will be upgraded for free, HOWEVER WAIT THERE'S MORE! Ships very much like character respec will have the option to choose but "you have to pay zen" to get the upgraded ship. Enough Said.
As mentioned above, upgraded Tier 5 ships (or T5-U ships) will offer many of the same benefits provided by Tier 6 starships minus a few bells and whistles.
T5-U ships will feature a sizeable number of additional hit points that will increase as your captain levels up, an additional console slot, and four Starship Mastery levels.
As mentioned in the Tier 6 Starships blog, the Starship Mastery system represents your captain and crew mastering the starship and discovering its full capabilities over time.
All upgraded Tier 5 ships have the ability to become more powerful as the captain gains Skill Points.
This allows the starship to effectively Level Up.
T5-U starships start at level 0 and progress to level 4 as the captain plays the game normally.
At each level (up to the max level of 4), the starship gains a new passive ability that provides a sizeable boost to a stat like damage resistance, critical hit chance, or hit points.
These passive abilities are specific to the ship that has unlocked them, and each starship within a given category shares the same package of passive abilities.
As you can see, upgraded Tier 5 ships share many of the benefits of a Tier 6 starship with a few exceptions.
Below is a table that outlines precisely which benefits T5-U and T6 ships receive.
So what we have is yes you pay and upgrade, minus a few bells and whistles, "BUT" the overall consensis here is that you must again "pay zen" for your ship to compete with the "DR game mechanics".
*Upgraded Tier 5 starships and Tier 6 starships both have four passive abilities.
The fifth Starship Mastery level on Tier 6 ships unlocks the starships trait.
**All Tier 6 ships launching with Delta Rising will come with a Specialist Bridge Officer seat.
However, it should be noted that future Tier 6 ships may not always come with one.
A notable benefit of upgrading a Tier 5 ship is that the upgrade is available across your entire account.
Example: If I upgrade my Avenger Battlecruiser on my Starfleet tactical captain, I can upgrade an Avenger Battlecruiser from T5 to T5-U on any character that also owns this ship for free.
The vast majority of existing Tier 5 starships can be upgraded to T5-U granting the benefits mentioned above.
You can find an exhaustive list of all upgradeable ships here.
Our current plan is to release as many of the ships above as possible when Delta Rising launches.
Any ships on this list that arent available by launch will be rolled out in future updates until the entire list shown in the link above is available.
Q: How much Zen will it cost to upgrade my starship?
A: We have not finalized the cost, but it is likely to be somewhere between $5 and $10.
Q: Which ships will be free to upgrade?
A: All Lockbox and Lobi starships, 1000 Day Veteran Destroyers,
Duty Officer promotional starships, and the Dyson, Breen and Risian event starships will all qualify for a free T5-U upgrade.
Q: So, if I pay for an upgrade on a starship, that upgraded starship will be available to all my characters that can fly that ship?
A: Correct!
You only need to pay the upgrade fee once.
Q: What actions give skill points to increase my Starship Mastery level?
A: Only defeating enemy starships will yield skill points for your Starship Mastery.
Q: Will there be any story content that requires a T5-U or T6 starship?
A: Absolutely not.
Our goal here is to allow players to play through all of the games story content without requiring the purchase of a starship.
Owning one of these top notch ships will certainly give you an edge, but story content isnt designed to require these ships.
Q: Are the passive abilities between T5-U and T6 ships of the same ship category the same?
Or are the abilities found on the T6 ships better?
A: Starship Mastery passive abilities are identical between T5-U and T6 starships.
The only difference between these ships in Starship Mastery is that T6 ships have a Starship Trait that can be unlocked at Level 5 whereas T5-U ships Starship Mastery progression ends at Level 4 and they dont have a Starship Trait to be unlocked.
Please note that everything detailed here is subject to change due to feedback.
We also encourage you to hop onto our test server Tribble to experience this system first hand when it becomes available.
Phil Gorngonzolla Zeleski
Systems Lead
Star Trek Online
And there you have it........Tier V Upgrades, straight and cited from the dev blogs about cost, bells, whistles, and "actually" from "Systems Lead" Phil "Gorngonzolla" Zeleski himself. Need I say more? NO! The prosecution rest! Court Ajourned!
As far as information on what has been released so far on Tier VI there is a blog about it as well Dev Blog news on it through the Arc News.
It's sad but we are doing their job. It's their job to figure out compromise, it's their job to maintain the game and keep players enticed. It's their job NOT to "alienate" the mass majority of players and cause an exodus of this game. But we care about the game enough to do the job for them and they STILL don't listen. As a game design student, I know this to be true. If someone gets upset by what you said, they shouldn't be here. You, like anyone else, has the right to say your piece and that has no justification for starting a feud. Because how is a feud gonna help anything. It will only satisfy the ego of those who wish to defend Cryptic/PWE.
Thats a pretty clear statement i think, and based on cryptics attitude towards game
difficuly, ie they tend to avoid making it difficult so as not to affect the casual player,
i continue to find it amusing that people are still think the following...
Here here!
They aren't even acknowledging us in this thread, which proves they dont give a damn! I think they are making the game THEY want to play.
Im done throwing money at them. They have missed out heaps because i know they dont listen. They will never listen because they are stubborn in what they want to do.
I read an article a long time ago that Cryptic didnt want to pursue MMO's, which is why they sold out to PWE, im just wondering if its the same xrew from back then and trying to purposely lose players so they can pull the plug. I think someone else said something similar in this thread.
But really, i dont think nothing is stopping them from pulling the plug.
This rubbish with T-5U should be T6, nothing more nothing less. T-5U is essentially the fleet ships we have currently. The fleet ships being T5.5 will essentially become T5.95. Both rubbish.
Anyone thats saying " they gotta sell T6 and wont because everyone is upgrading their T5 or T5.5 to T6 " is deluded. They will make money from us that upgrade from T5 or T5.5 to T6 and PLUS buying the new T6 ships because they are new.
There is no excuse why they cant do it, it is because they dont want to and are being stingy.
People want the T6 upgrade, give it to them and watch the complaints stop.
But also, if everyone has to pay for upgrades, then those that have lockboxed,lobi or event ships should have to pay as well, or make it free across the board.
As it stands, thanks for kicking me down as a customer Cryptic, you wont see a dime from me again unless you change your attitude toward us. Once bitten, twice shy
+1 this post
as easiliy done a T6 delta retrofit of all the tier 5/5.5 ships and charged full price for
them, as well as introducing thier new T6 ship lines, people are too busy screaming
at the way they have chosen to do this and havn't really considerd the many other
options they could have taken to pay for this expansion
Qoy puqbe'pu'.
yoHbogh matlhbogh je SuvwI'
Say'moHchu' may' 'Iw.
maSuv manong 'ej maHoHchu'.
nI'be' yInmaj 'ach wovqu'.
batlh maHeghbej 'ej yo' qIjDaq vavpu'ma' DImuv.
pa' reH maSuvtaHqu'.
mamevQo'. maSuvtaH. ma'ov.
Ah yes, so lets see here.
All Lobi Store and Lock Box ships get free upgrades. If I understand this right is what you are saying, however.......................all C Store and Fleet Ships based of C Store are pay to upgrade?
So for you........................that's amusing.
Here's what I find amusing to your comment. BRILLIANT! NEXT!
Yes, unfortunately information at this point is very limited.
That da same song in doomsday device?
I always wonndered what it was in english, so i just got on bing translator lol....i dont think they have done a real good job of translations in bing tho
Soon comrade, soon today will be a good day to die! QA'PLAH! GameVerseMan! For Kahless!
Hear! Sons of Kahless.
Hear! Daughters too.
The blood of battle washes clean
The Warrior brave and true.
We fight, we love, and then we kill.
Our lives burn short and bright,
Then we die with honor and join our fathers in the Black Fleet where
we battle forever, battling on through the Eternal fight.
Was about to ask the same thing lol.
Belanna is right, bing is hopeless, I was just looking myself and bing stuffed it all up lol
dats nice, thankyou
i know i know, im klingon & dont know klingonese