Has anybody seen anything different to the following (from Twitter, Facebook, a podcast, etc)...?
First comparing T5 (9), T5 (10), T5-U (10), & T5-U (11) to T6...
Then comparing T6, T5-U (11), T5-U (10), & T5 (10) to T5 (9)...
T5-U (11 console) vs. T6
-1 BOFF ability (unknown rank)
-hybrid seat(s) (not listed as additional, just hybrid)
-ability to unlock Starship Trait from Starship Mastery Level 5
+1 console
+hull
+shield mod
T5-U (10 console) vs. T6
-1 BOFF ability (unknown rank)
-hybrid seat(s) (not listed as additional, just hybrid)
-ability to unlock Starship Trait from Starship Mastery Level 5
T5 (10 console) vs. T6
-1 BOFF ability (unknown rank)
-hybrid seat(s) (not listed as additional, just hybrid)
-ability to unlock Starship Trait from Starship Mastery Level 5
-scaling HP 50-60 (have to compare vs. +hull)
-Starship Mastery
+hull (have to compare vs. the lack of scaling HP)
+shield mod
T5 (9 console) vs. T6
-1 BOFF ability (unknown rank)
-hybrid seat(s) (not listed as additional, just hybrid)
-ability to unlock Starship Trait from Starship Mastery Level 5
-scaling HP 50-60
-Starship Mastery
-1 console
T6 vs. T5 (9 console)
+1 BOFF ability (unknown rank)
+hybrid seat(s) (not listed as additional, just hybrid)
+ability to unlock Starship Trait from Starship Mastery Level 5
+scaling HP 50-60
+Starship Mastery
+1 console
T5-U (11 console) vs. T5 (9 console)
+scaling HP 50-60
+Starship Mastery
+2 consoles
+hull
+shield mod
When you replied back to me after the 1. 2. 3. itemized post your responses had little to do with the actual content of what I wrote (where the hell did gold/silver status come from?) nor did they try to address the holes I've been pointing out in your arguments for quite some time (see. cost difference between lock box and c-store ships, this has never been anywhere on your radar from the look of things.) You simply doubled down on the attitude and tried to substitute it for a more reasonable discussion (as whatever reason you applied at first didn't give you the results you hoped it would.)
Ergo, me to you: no, just stop. In order to try to address something as astonishingly messy as that I would have needed an even longer post and there has been absolutely NO indiciation that you would do anything more than try to contradict it (see. the Monty Python argument sketch).
Its not worth my time or yours for that matter.
Actually if you wanted to stop, and the worth is not your time the door is that way.
> Let the folks post their opinions here and just accept that there are two sides to a street as well as two sides to every action and opposite reaction as well. Again carrying on.
1. The discount of fleet ships was only applied to c-store ships then. Many ships were excluded, even from having any kind of fleet variant (see. KDF Siege Destroyer). Now, all C-store, Fleet, and Specialty ships are included in T5-U. That's every ship that had a fleet version PLUS all of those fleet versions, all those c-store ships left out last time, AND every lock box, lobi, veteran, and seasonal event ship.
Versus now... where the same T5 ships that were not eligible for T5 fleet DISCOUNT are flat out ineligible for T5-U altogether--all the mirror, dil, and 200k FC ships are DISALLOWED FROM BUYING ANY UPGRADE PERIOD, nevermind discount, flat-out DISALLOWED. Meanwhile, ALL of the T5 ships are prohibited from upgrading to T6. Some T5 ships get the end-of-life sub-T6 upgrade, but MOST of the T5 ships have to pay to even get that, and no discount.
This is much more stringent than the old T5 Fleet upgrade requirements.
Versus now... where most T5 also have to pay to get even the end-of-life sub-T6 upgrade. Many of the same T5 that were not eligible for T5 fleet DISCOUNT are flat out ineligible for T5-U altogether--all the mirror, dil, and 200k FC ships are DISALLOWED FROM BUYING ANY UPGRADE PERIOD, nevermind discount, flat-out DISALLOWED. And ALL T5 ships are excluded are prohibited from upgrading to T6.
This is much more stringent than the old T5 Fleet upgrade requirements.
Ursusmorologus I love the way you put that and think as well.................
My argument is if I payed already for the C Store ship and the fleet which I did before DR is even coming out. Then yes the grandfathering for Fleet and C Store should hold equal in getting a free upgrade because I did contribute the money for the zen and used the zen toward the ship. EITHER WAY, money was exchanged, used for zen, and purchased from the C Store. And that is the argument AGAIN right there. MONEY EXCHANGED! And me arguing over instead of celebrating for the cost of an upgrade. GET REAL! Again I payed, I played, I contributed out of pocket and that SHOULD be valued as the next person buying Lock Box Keys off the exchange or paying zen for it just for a change. The only Lock Box ships I own? Is the Mirror Universe Patrol and Advanced Escort. And may I remind you that was only when they were selling for either 15k or 20k on the Exchange. So even in one moment you are fathoming in that mind I have 40 mill in EC? WRONG, thanks for the assumption, nice of you to jump to conclusions, and the argued compliment. But all you are doing is talking hot air on topic labeling me as such a person to have all that EC and goods. BRILLIANT!
So what's the point made? It's not just the grind or the climb Duncanidaho, BUT the FACT that people like me contributed to this game out of pocket yes to the C Store and later again to the C Store for the Fleet Ships, and you just want to undermine those folks like me as being the "majority" of "arrogant" people whining and fussing without a justifiable means.
Well to quote Batman: "It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me!" And it's people like me you want to label and sterotype as the majority, well then let the majority speak out, and justify themselves. Love it or hate it, these folks are speaking a valid point. And SO AM I!
Enough of this. You want to play the "invested work" card, here goes:
Let me retoss these numbers out. Especially since monetary values are, by definition, a method to express the amount of "work", or "grind / investment", into something.
By that definition, I had to "grind/invest" 8 to 10 times more on a Lobi Recluse Carrier than you did for a T5 or T5.5 C-store ship.
And yet, you believe that your "bare minimum" grind/investment deserves to be rewarded identically to my "above and beyond" grind/investment?
And while the values aren't out, we both can be relatively certain that T6 levels of power will cost more than T5 levels - whether it's the direct T5 to T6 jump, or via the T5U process.
And again, you believe that your "bare minimum to reach T5 or T5.5" somehow qualifies you to get to T5U or T6? You should be thankful that Cryptic's even offering to let you pay the difference between your "already ground bare minimum" and the "new bare minimum", instead of starting over from scratch.
Way I figure it, my Recluse is the "lifer equivalent" in ships - you know, massive up front investment for assurances I'll receive things throughout the life of the game, while your ship is the "gold subscriber" version - you paid then for the advantage then - but that doesn't cover you after the minimal investment has been made...
So, tell me why, outside of potential special snowflake syndrome, you still deserve a free upgrade in light of the fact that I've severely out-ground/invested you?
And on the other guy who called me out, and eventually led to the "PR manuever" call. Excellent thought - hopefully whoever's in charge might see the PR value in said decision. However, I do need to call into question what you've done since the "bad calls" of S6's upgrade process - participation, however reluctant, would be seen as "tacit approval" of the implemented plan, and then the PR person might say that said "approval" does not need a reward...
And remember, after all the multi-day grindy events, someone's got it stuck in their craw that they can get/keep their numbers up, however artificially, over stretches of time with these dragged out events - a direct counter-attempt to "fix" the problem of lagging daily logins... Said PR person might elect to make more grindy-events to "fix" the login problem - maybe tie said "free PR reward upgrade" to one of those events?
Detecting big-time "anti-old-school" bias here. NX? Lobi. TOS/TMP Connie? Super-promotion-box. (aka the two hardest ways to get ships) Excelsior & all 3 TNG "big hero" ships? C-Store. Please Equalize...
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
Funny you should mention that because I love a good chess match to even a discussion like this.
i do like my chess
there are many bloated posts in this thread and much of the same thing being regurgitated
over and over, there are valid points on both sides, but many of them are burried under the
dross so its kinda hard to pick them out (im sure ASKRAY has got more sense of it than I) i
do think the thread has gotten to a stage where its value is maybe diminishing as it seems
pretty much all that can be said or expressed has been many times and in many ways. i'm
thinking that a high post count isnt what devs look for in terms of feedback, its far more
likely they try for a general consensus and consider the constructive content that represents
all sides concerned. are we reaching a point where this needs to be sieved for a good spread
of data and passed on before things start to get stale and tempers flare anew??
Actually yes it is a choice. But the argument here is money. And money has already been put into the game. Oh please continue about how Fleet Modules are the Upgrade to a Fleet Ship. But wait that means, I already upgraded this ship to a fleet ship. No, actually I bought a fleet module toward the purchase of a fleet ship. See the C Store Ship doesn't actually become a Fleet Ship Duncanidaho it allows YOU to purchase a fleet ship. .
i know they have it pegged as an upgrade, but i do believe it is a new ship you recieve, i'll
see if i can chase down the post on that..
From the T5 Blog...
Completing this purchase will then immediately upgrade your ship and transfer any items on the
T5 ship to the new upgraded ship.
Actually yes it is a choice. But the argument here is money. And money has already been put into the game. Oh please continue about how Fleet Modules are the Upgrade to a Fleet Ship. But wait that means, I already upgraded this ship to a fleet ship..
Did you upgrade it to T5-U with ANOTHER stat increase and another console slot? Nope, you just upgraded it to T5-F[fleet]. That doesn't entitle you to free upgrades until the end of STO just as buying ANY item in this game (or anything in life for that matter) did not entitle you to its successor/better whenver that was released (ex. Fleet Patrol Escort Retrofit, Fleet gear, new reputation sets, ect. ect. ect.)
Again, you're not thinking (which isn't to say that you're stupid, its just that you're not applying reason to this particular problem.) You spent your "sweat" and got your ship. What that means is that you got THAT ship (which still exists as a tier in STO), not that ship plus the upgrades to the next tier (which means something else). Each purchase represents an individual transaction which comes with discounts and other miscellaneous promotions as the business involve thinks its necessary. Here, it most certainly isn't because the T5-U upgrade is in perfect keeping with past STO tier upgrades and the general principle of stat boosts costing something in RPGs (which instills a certain amount of value in that upgrade and ultimately in the gameplay element itself. Its what makes these things work.)
You may not be happy about that, but that's just it. You're not happy about an upgrade. That doesn't entitle you to it, that simply means you don't want to pay for it (and do try to think about what that distinction means.)
Do you have to? No (as stated). Should you? Maybe, depends on how much time/money you want to invest in this game, what you have now, and also what you want to play. In any case what you're NOT going to get is a similar repreive to what the Lobi and Lock Box ships got because there are extenuating circumstances with those which don't apply to you because you didn't spend anywhere near as much "sweat" to get your ship (nor will you now they get a small coupon for T5-U.)
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Enough of this. You want to play the "invested work" card, here goes:
Let me retoss these numbers out. Especially since monetary values are, by definition, a method to express the amount of "work", or "grind / investment", into something.
By that definition, I had to "grind/invest" 8 to 10 times more on a Lobi Recluse Carrier than you did for a T5 or T5.5 C-store ship.
And yet, you believe that your "bare minimum" grind/investment deserves to be rewarded identically to my "above and beyond" grind/investment?
And while the values aren't out, we both can be relatively certain that T6 levels of power will cost more than T5 levels - whether it's the direct T5 to T6 jump, or via the T5U process.
And again, you believe that your "bare minimum to reach T5 or T5.5" somehow qualifies you to get to T5U or T6? You should be thankful that Cryptic's even offering to let you pay the difference between your "already ground bare minimum" and the "new bare minimum", instead of starting over from scratch.
Way I figure it, my Recluse is the "lifer equivalent" in ships - you know, massive up front investment for assurances I'll receive things throughout the life of the game, while your ship is the "gold subscriber" version - you paid then for the advantage then - but that doesn't cover you after the minimal investment has been made...
So, tell me why, outside of potential special snowflake syndrome, you still deserve a free upgrade in light of the fact that I've severely out-ground/invested you?
And on the other guy who called me out, and eventually led to the "PR manuever" call. Excellent thought - hopefully whoever's in charge might see the PR value in said decision. However, I do need to call into question what you've done since the "bad calls" of S6's upgrade process - participation, however reluctant, would be seen as "tacit approval" of the implemented plan, and then the PR person might say that said "approval" does not need a reward...
And remember, after all the multi-day grindy events, someone's got it stuck in their craw that they can get/keep their numbers up, however artificially, over stretches of time with these dragged out events - a direct counter-attempt to "fix" the problem of lagging daily logins... Said PR person might elect to make more grindy-events to "fix" the login problem - maybe tie said "free PR reward upgrade" to one of those events?
Oh sure, LETS play the "Invested Work Card"
"Let me retoss these numbers out. Especially since monetary values are, by definition, a method to express the amount of "work", or "grind / investment", into something.
You just showed in the argument that money has just as well been spent toward a C Store ship, maybe not as much but still payed to a C Store Ship.
"By that definition, I had to "grind/invest" 8 to 10 times more on a Lobi Recluse Carrier than you did for a T5 or T5.5 C-store ship.
And yet, you believe that your "bare minimum" grind/investment deserves to be rewarded identically to my "above and beyond" grind/investment?
And while the values aren't out, we both can be relatively certain that T6 levels of power will cost more than T5 levels - whether it's the direct T5 to T6 jump, or via the T5U process."
Actually this is another David vs Goliath argument here and yes I do think IT IS valid. Maybe I don't have the cash like YOU DO. But I did pay into the game as well. See it's this way,
YOU SPENT, $1.250 on Lock Box Keys, and Lobi Store. Wow, you really invested into this game and nothing else better to spend toward. See this creats the "binge spending" vs "budget spending". Again I don't waste time with Lobi and Lock Boxes and that makes me cheap? Actually I like to know the debt you are running yourself into with that much spent on the game itself.
Onward now shall we?
"Way I figure it, my Recluse is the "lifer equivalent" in ships - you know, massive up front investment for assurances I'll receive things throughout the life of the game, while your ship is the "gold subscriber" version - you paid then for the advantage then - but that doesn't cover you after the minimal investment has been made..."
Well that's your path you set, folks like myself rather put the time to just get a ship, get a fleet from the discount of the C Store version and build from that. Again this is about spend more and satisfying egos. Verses someone that wants to buy, watch what they spend, and enjoy the game for fun. BRILLIANT! Hey you love STO? You love Perfectworld? Work for Perfectworld, or go to the Stock Broker to see what their shares are worth and invest that nest egg of yours to help them rise in Wall Street.
"And remember, after all the multi-day grindy events, someone's got it stuck in their craw that they can get/keep their numbers up, however artificially, over stretches of time with these dragged out events - a direct counter-attempt to "fix" the problem of lagging daily logins... Said PR person might elect to make more grindy-events to "fix" the login problem - maybe tie said "free PR reward upgrade" to one of those events?[/QUOTE]"
Well if you don't like the lag, although you like the game, you don't like the login issue. The door is that way
> for another thread because this one is about "Tier V Starship Upgrades." Not the bugs in STO. Next!
Did you upgrade it to T5-U with ANOTHER stat increase and another console slot? Nope, you just upgraded it to T5-F[fleet]. That doesn't entitle you to free upgrades until the end of STO just as buying ANY item in this game (or anything in life for that matter) did not entitle you to its successor/better whenver that was released (ex. Fleet Patrol Escort Retrofit, Fleet gear, new reputation sets, ect. ect. ect.)
Again, you're not thinking (which isn't to say that you're stupid, its just that you're not applying reason to this particular problem.) You spent your "sweat" and got your ship. What that means is that you got THAT ship (which still exists as a tier in STO), not that ship plus the upgrades to the next tier (which means something else). Each purchase represents an individual transaction which comes with discounts and other miscellaneous promotions as the business involve thinks its necessary. Here, it most certainly isn't because the T5-U upgrade is in perfect keeping with past STO tier upgrades and the general principle of stat boosts costing something in RPGs (which instills a certain amount of value in that upgrade and ultimately in the gameplay element itself. Its what makes these things work.)
You may not be happy about that, but that's just it. You're not happy about an upgrade. That doesn't entitle you to it, that simply means you don't want to pay for it (and do try to think about what that distinction means.)
Do you have to? No (as stated). Should you? Maybe, depends on how much time/money you want to invest in this game, what you have now, and also what you want to play. In any case what you're NOT going to get is a similar repreive to what the Lobi and Lock Box ships got because there are extenuating circumstances with those which don't apply to you because you didn't spend anywhere near as much "sweat" to get your ship (nor will you now they get a small coupon for T5-U.)
Dragging on, carrying on blah blah, Door that way
>
I've heard something about there being an upgrade button in the ships panel. Sounds like the upgrade button affects the very ship.
T5-U is an upgrade and I picked up the same bit of info. It will be a button in the ship selector which not only gets you an immediate upgrade (no moving equipment, you just get better stats and a new console slot) but it also unlocks that upgrade account wide.
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Dragging on, carrying on blah blah, Door that way
>
Future note folks: don't feed the troll.
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Lets see now, most Lobi and Lock Box with the exception for a few to be excluded. And also LOOK at this Promotional Event Ships grandfathered as well. Documented and fact!
Lets see now, most Lobi and Lock Box with the exception for a few to be excluded. And also LOOK at this Promotional Event Ships grandfathered as well. Documented and fact!
well i did take the time to grind all the event ships on all my toons so i'll definately have
something to run on the go live, the few toons that have lobi ships will stay in them and
the other few, well it'll be a matter of picking may favourite fleet ships on fed for upgrade
and i may get a T6 for a kdf toon.. i certainly dont intend on upgrading all my ships, if i feel
the need to fly them i'll just do level 50 stfs and reruns.
Versus now... where the same T5 ships that were not eligible for T5 fleet DISCOUNT are flat out ineligible for T5-U altogether--all the mirror, dil, and 200k FC ships are DISALLOWED FROM BUYING ANY UPGRADE PERIOD, nevermind discount, flat-out DISALLOWED. Meanwhile, ALL of the T5 ships are prohibited from upgrading to T6. Some T5 ships get the end-of-life sub-T6 upgrade, but MOST of the T5 ships have to pay to even get that, and no discount.
This is much more stringent than the old T5 Fleet upgrade requirements.
It's the same thing...er...the dead end ships currently are the dead end ships for Delta Rising.
There are no Fleet Mirror ships...so Mirror ships are currently a dead end. Delta doesn't change that.
Ships that provide no discount for their 10 console counterparts...er...do not provide a discount and are a dead end. Delta doesn't change that.
There are some 9 console T5 ships without a 10 console variant that will be able to go T5-U, but that's going to be:
D'Kyr 2000 Zen
Varanus 2000 Zen
Marauder 2000 Zen
The DSDs...event/600 Lobi.
An odd one out in discussing the ships is the Obelisk, which although initially an episode reward was made available for sale for FC/FSMs(2) via the Spire. It provides no discount toward the Advanced Obelisk though. Will be interesting to see what happens there.
But for the most part, the Delta dead end ships are the current dead end ships.
With there being the upgrade path for those 3 Zen boats and the normal DSDs...it's actually less stringent, no? There are additional upgrade options that did not exist...not a reduction in upgrade options.
I still kind of /facepalm the inclusion of the Event ships...
Its the lobi. The game doesn't make a distinction between people who ground the present game for their DSD and those who spent crystals for their Q-mendation marks.
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this is the problem, everything everyone is saying about the relative differences between
T5U and T6 is purely speculative, until actual stats are released we have no idea exactly
what the values are going to be, how those values will compare to each other and just
exactly what that means relative to gameplay.
FINALLY! Yet another who actually sees how many points people keep tossing out are based on attempting to read between the few lines Cryptic has given us! I think to puts us to 4 out of 100+ people or so in this thread....
I may be missing his point as well, but I think it's the argument about the free upgrades vs. paid upgrades argument...
While I disagree with them regarding the Lock Box/Lobi ships, I still kind of /facepalm the inclusion of the Event ships...
ahh kk, yeah that makes sense to me now, thanks dude.
the only reason i can see for them including the event ships is them being available again
in part or full for this years events, in which casre they would need to keep them relative
so as to make sure folks do the event grind, that is pure speculation on my part though.
Here's one confirmed difference: T6 is an upgrade from T5, meaning that you get the customary boost to hull, shields, and consoles that goes with any tier. So, (sticking with consoles since it best illustrates the point) a standard T6 ship is going to bring you up to 10. T5-U fleet ships on the other hand will have 11 and an additional boost to hull and shield points (because its applying a second tier upgrade from T5, fleet first then this new level.)
We have NOTHING from any dev stating the difference in hull/shield stats at level 60.
We have NOTHING from any dev stating rates of increase of hull/shield stats on either T5U or T6 from 50-60.
The ONLY statement made regarding base shield/hull stats by a dev is that T6 will be comparable to T5 at level 50.
The precise wording of that statement leads me to believe there is more tied to that single relevant piece of information than has yet been shared. Stop basing arguments on speculation regarding statistical differences for which no dev has yet revealed by combining any variety of single statements you choose and trying to guess the answer. That was the point of the post you replied to.
If you can not link to a DEV post stating it to be fact it is speculation.
the only reason i can see for them including the event ships is them being available again
in part or full for this years events, in which casre they would need to keep them relative
so as to make sure folks do the event grind, that is pure speculation on my part though.
Its simpler then that (to elaborate on my previous post).
The event ships included are those which required a certain number of seasonal/event tokens which you could have also picked up with a considerable amount of lobi. If you're going to include fixed priced lobi ships in the game you should reasonably include variable cost lobi ships (ie. event ships) because some people (not me incidentally) did see their price tag strictly in shades of pink and purple. Many didn't, they chose to grind instead, but cryptic has stated that they vew that effort on equal terms to the lobi cost (even if we don't.)
So, risian, breen, and the original DSD get T5-U free (while the Obelisk, Bortasqu, and Oddy don't.)
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We have NOTHING from any dev stating the difference in hull/shield stats at level 60.
We have NOTHING from any dev stating rates of increase of hull/shield stats on either T5U or T6 from 50-60.
The ONLY statement made regarding base shield/hull stats by a dev is that T6 will be comparable to T5 at level 50.
The precise wording of that statement leads me to believe there is more tied to that single relevant piece of information than has yet been shared. Stop basing arguments on speculation regarding statistical differences for which no dev has yet revealed by combining any variety of single statements you choose and trying to guess the answer. That was the point of the post you replied to.
If you can not link to a DEV post stating it to be fact it is speculation.
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Comments
First comparing T5 (9), T5 (10), T5-U (10), & T5-U (11) to T6...
Then comparing T6, T5-U (11), T5-U (10), & T5 (10) to T5 (9)...
T5-U (11 console) vs. T6
-1 BOFF ability (unknown rank)
-hybrid seat(s) (not listed as additional, just hybrid)
-ability to unlock Starship Trait from Starship Mastery Level 5
+1 console
+hull
+shield mod
T5-U (10 console) vs. T6
-1 BOFF ability (unknown rank)
-hybrid seat(s) (not listed as additional, just hybrid)
-ability to unlock Starship Trait from Starship Mastery Level 5
T5 (10 console) vs. T6
-1 BOFF ability (unknown rank)
-hybrid seat(s) (not listed as additional, just hybrid)
-ability to unlock Starship Trait from Starship Mastery Level 5
-scaling HP 50-60 (have to compare vs. +hull)
-Starship Mastery
+hull (have to compare vs. the lack of scaling HP)
+shield mod
T5 (9 console) vs. T6
-1 BOFF ability (unknown rank)
-hybrid seat(s) (not listed as additional, just hybrid)
-ability to unlock Starship Trait from Starship Mastery Level 5
-scaling HP 50-60
-Starship Mastery
-1 console
T6 vs. T5 (9 console)
+1 BOFF ability (unknown rank)
+hybrid seat(s) (not listed as additional, just hybrid)
+ability to unlock Starship Trait from Starship Mastery Level 5
+scaling HP 50-60
+Starship Mastery
+1 console
T5-U (11 console) vs. T5 (9 console)
+scaling HP 50-60
+Starship Mastery
+2 consoles
+hull
+shield mod
T5-U (10 console) vs. T5 (9 console)
+scaling HP 50-60
+Starship Mastery
+1 console
T5 (10 console) vs. T5 (9 console)
+1 console
+hull
+shield mod
Actually if you wanted to stop, and the worth is not your time the door is that way.
> Let the folks post their opinions here and just accept that there are two sides to a street as well as two sides to every action and opposite reaction as well. Again carrying on.
This is much more stringent than the old T5 Fleet upgrade requirements.
Ursusmorologus I love the way you put that and think as well.................
Enough of this. You want to play the "invested work" card, here goes:
Let me retoss these numbers out. Especially since monetary values are, by definition, a method to express the amount of "work", or "grind / investment", into something.
C-store ship, $20 - $25. Lobi ship, $200. Lockbox ship, $1,250.
By that definition, I had to "grind/invest" 8 to 10 times more on a Lobi Recluse Carrier than you did for a T5 or T5.5 C-store ship.
And yet, you believe that your "bare minimum" grind/investment deserves to be rewarded identically to my "above and beyond" grind/investment?
And while the values aren't out, we both can be relatively certain that T6 levels of power will cost more than T5 levels - whether it's the direct T5 to T6 jump, or via the T5U process.
And again, you believe that your "bare minimum to reach T5 or T5.5" somehow qualifies you to get to T5U or T6? You should be thankful that Cryptic's even offering to let you pay the difference between your "already ground bare minimum" and the "new bare minimum", instead of starting over from scratch.
Way I figure it, my Recluse is the "lifer equivalent" in ships - you know, massive up front investment for assurances I'll receive things throughout the life of the game, while your ship is the "gold subscriber" version - you paid then for the advantage then - but that doesn't cover you after the minimal investment has been made...
So, tell me why, outside of potential special snowflake syndrome, you still deserve a free upgrade in light of the fact that I've severely out-ground/invested you?
And on the other guy who called me out, and eventually led to the "PR manuever" call. Excellent thought - hopefully whoever's in charge might see the PR value in said decision. However, I do need to call into question what you've done since the "bad calls" of S6's upgrade process - participation, however reluctant, would be seen as "tacit approval" of the implemented plan, and then the PR person might say that said "approval" does not need a reward...
And remember, after all the multi-day grindy events, someone's got it stuck in their craw that they can get/keep their numbers up, however artificially, over stretches of time with these dragged out events - a direct counter-attempt to "fix" the problem of lagging daily logins... Said PR person might elect to make more grindy-events to "fix" the login problem - maybe tie said "free PR reward upgrade" to one of those events?
To rob a line: [quote: Mariemaia Kushrenada] Forum Posting is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever. However, opinions will change upon the reading of my post.[/quote]
i do like my chess
there are many bloated posts in this thread and much of the same thing being regurgitated
over and over, there are valid points on both sides, but many of them are burried under the
dross so its kinda hard to pick them out (im sure ASKRAY has got more sense of it than I) i
do think the thread has gotten to a stage where its value is maybe diminishing as it seems
pretty much all that can be said or expressed has been many times and in many ways. i'm
thinking that a high post count isnt what devs look for in terms of feedback, its far more
likely they try for a general consensus and consider the constructive content that represents
all sides concerned. are we reaching a point where this needs to be sieved for a good spread
of data and passed on before things start to get stale and tempers flare anew??
*Looks at watch*...*Raises finger*...*Constrains self*
i know they have it pegged as an upgrade, but i do believe it is a new ship you recieve, i'll
see if i can chase down the post on that..
From the T5 Blog...
Completing this purchase will then immediately upgrade your ship and transfer any items on the
T5 ship to the new upgraded ship.
Did you upgrade it to T5-U with ANOTHER stat increase and another console slot? Nope, you just upgraded it to T5-F[fleet]. That doesn't entitle you to free upgrades until the end of STO just as buying ANY item in this game (or anything in life for that matter) did not entitle you to its successor/better whenver that was released (ex. Fleet Patrol Escort Retrofit, Fleet gear, new reputation sets, ect. ect. ect.)
Again, you're not thinking (which isn't to say that you're stupid, its just that you're not applying reason to this particular problem.) You spent your "sweat" and got your ship. What that means is that you got THAT ship (which still exists as a tier in STO), not that ship plus the upgrades to the next tier (which means something else). Each purchase represents an individual transaction which comes with discounts and other miscellaneous promotions as the business involve thinks its necessary. Here, it most certainly isn't because the T5-U upgrade is in perfect keeping with past STO tier upgrades and the general principle of stat boosts costing something in RPGs (which instills a certain amount of value in that upgrade and ultimately in the gameplay element itself. Its what makes these things work.)
You may not be happy about that, but that's just it. You're not happy about an upgrade. That doesn't entitle you to it, that simply means you don't want to pay for it (and do try to think about what that distinction means.)
Do you have to? No (as stated). Should you? Maybe, depends on how much time/money you want to invest in this game, what you have now, and also what you want to play. In any case what you're NOT going to get is a similar repreive to what the Lobi and Lock Box ships got because there are extenuating circumstances with those which don't apply to you because you didn't spend anywhere near as much "sweat" to get your ship (nor will you now they get a small coupon for T5-U.)
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I've heard something about there being an upgrade button in the ships panel. Sounds like the upgrade button affects the very ship.
Oh sure, LETS play the "Invested Work Card"
"Let me retoss these numbers out. Especially since monetary values are, by definition, a method to express the amount of "work", or "grind / investment", into something.
C-store ship, $20 - $25. Lobi ship, $200. Lockbox ship, $1,250."
You just showed in the argument that money has just as well been spent toward a C Store ship, maybe not as much but still payed to a C Store Ship.
"By that definition, I had to "grind/invest" 8 to 10 times more on a Lobi Recluse Carrier than you did for a T5 or T5.5 C-store ship.
And yet, you believe that your "bare minimum" grind/investment deserves to be rewarded identically to my "above and beyond" grind/investment?
And while the values aren't out, we both can be relatively certain that T6 levels of power will cost more than T5 levels - whether it's the direct T5 to T6 jump, or via the T5U process."
Actually this is another David vs Goliath argument here and yes I do think IT IS valid. Maybe I don't have the cash like YOU DO. But I did pay into the game as well. See it's this way,
YOU SPENT, $1.250 on Lock Box Keys, and Lobi Store. Wow, you really invested into this game and nothing else better to spend toward. See this creats the "binge spending" vs "budget spending". Again I don't waste time with Lobi and Lock Boxes and that makes me cheap? Actually I like to know the debt you are running yourself into with that much spent on the game itself.
Onward now shall we?
"Way I figure it, my Recluse is the "lifer equivalent" in ships - you know, massive up front investment for assurances I'll receive things throughout the life of the game, while your ship is the "gold subscriber" version - you paid then for the advantage then - but that doesn't cover you after the minimal investment has been made..."
Well that's your path you set, folks like myself rather put the time to just get a ship, get a fleet from the discount of the C Store version and build from that. Again this is about spend more and satisfying egos. Verses someone that wants to buy, watch what they spend, and enjoy the game for fun. BRILLIANT! Hey you love STO? You love Perfectworld? Work for Perfectworld, or go to the Stock Broker to see what their shares are worth and invest that nest egg of yours to help them rise in Wall Street.
"And remember, after all the multi-day grindy events, someone's got it stuck in their craw that they can get/keep their numbers up, however artificially, over stretches of time with these dragged out events - a direct counter-attempt to "fix" the problem of lagging daily logins... Said PR person might elect to make more grindy-events to "fix" the login problem - maybe tie said "free PR reward upgrade" to one of those events?[/QUOTE]"
Well if you don't like the lag, although you like the game, you don't like the login issue. The door is that way
> for another thread because this one is about "Tier V Starship Upgrades." Not the bugs in STO. Next!
Dragging on, carrying on blah blah, Door that way
>
From the Blog
Completing this purchase will then immediately upgrade your ship and transfer
any items on the T5 ship to the new upgraded ship.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/7002133-tier-5-starship-upgrades
T5-U is an upgrade and I picked up the same bit of info. It will be a button in the ship selector which not only gets you an immediate upgrade (no moving equipment, you just get better stats and a new console slot) but it also unlocks that upgrade account wide.
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Future note folks: don't feed the troll.
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Ah yes your argument on the wonderful benefits of WHAT you get for paying zen toward Tier V Upgrades. Now mine!
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/7002163
Lets see now, most Lobi and Lock Box with the exception for a few to be excluded. And also LOOK at this Promotional Event Ships grandfathered as well. Documented and fact!
Actually talking and doing the exact opposite. That's what I see here.
well i did take the time to grind all the event ships on all my toons so i'll definately have
something to run on the go live, the few toons that have lobi ships will stay in them and
the other few, well it'll be a matter of picking may favourite fleet ships on fed for upgrade
and i may get a T6 for a kdf toon.. i certainly dont intend on upgrading all my ships, if i feel
the need to fly them i'll just do level 50 stfs and reruns.
ps i think i may be missing your point
It's the same thing...er...the dead end ships currently are the dead end ships for Delta Rising.
There are no Fleet Mirror ships...so Mirror ships are currently a dead end. Delta doesn't change that.
Ships that provide no discount for their 10 console counterparts...er...do not provide a discount and are a dead end. Delta doesn't change that.
There are some 9 console T5 ships without a 10 console variant that will be able to go T5-U, but that's going to be:
D'Kyr 2000 Zen
Varanus 2000 Zen
Marauder 2000 Zen
The DSDs...event/600 Lobi.
An odd one out in discussing the ships is the Obelisk, which although initially an episode reward was made available for sale for FC/FSMs(2) via the Spire. It provides no discount toward the Advanced Obelisk though. Will be interesting to see what happens there.
But for the most part, the Delta dead end ships are the current dead end ships.
With there being the upgrade path for those 3 Zen boats and the normal DSDs...it's actually less stringent, no? There are additional upgrade options that did not exist...not a reduction in upgrade options.
I may be missing his point as well, but I think it's the argument about the free upgrades vs. paid upgrades argument...
While I disagree with them regarding the Lock Box/Lobi ships, I still kind of /facepalm the inclusion of the Event ships...
Where's the cane hook when you need one?
Its the lobi. The game doesn't make a distinction between people who ground the present game for their DSD and those who spent crystals for their Q-mendation marks.
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FINALLY! Yet another who actually sees how many points people keep tossing out are based on attempting to read between the few lines Cryptic has given us! I think to puts us to 4 out of 100+ people or so in this thread....
ahh kk, yeah that makes sense to me now, thanks dude.
the only reason i can see for them including the event ships is them being available again
in part or full for this years events, in which casre they would need to keep them relative
so as to make sure folks do the event grind, that is pure speculation on my part though.
We have NOTHING from any dev stating the difference in hull/shield stats at level 60.
We have NOTHING from any dev stating rates of increase of hull/shield stats on either T5U or T6 from 50-60.
The ONLY statement made regarding base shield/hull stats by a dev is that T6 will be comparable to T5 at level 50.
The precise wording of that statement leads me to believe there is more tied to that single relevant piece of information than has yet been shared. Stop basing arguments on speculation regarding statistical differences for which no dev has yet revealed by combining any variety of single statements you choose and trying to guess the answer. That was the point of the post you replied to.
If you can not link to a DEV post stating it to be fact it is speculation.
well im obviously badly read and misinformed then, please enlighten me..
Its simpler then that (to elaborate on my previous post).
The event ships included are those which required a certain number of seasonal/event tokens which you could have also picked up with a considerable amount of lobi. If you're going to include fixed priced lobi ships in the game you should reasonably include variable cost lobi ships (ie. event ships) because some people (not me incidentally) did see their price tag strictly in shades of pink and purple. Many didn't, they chose to grind instead, but cryptic has stated that they vew that effort on equal terms to the lobi cost (even if we don't.)
So, risian, breen, and the original DSD get T5-U free (while the Obelisk, Bortasqu, and Oddy don't.)
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Why? You're goating him to go off topic, which accompolishes nothing.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=18831241&postcount=331
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=18831241&postcount=324
maybe you should read the whole blog before stating.. well what you were stating
I've never before been in the position of linking off the thread I'm in for support.
Specifically refer to Gorgonzolla.
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