Poor peeps on a budget who fly mirror ships. From this point forward - I now see zero point to mirror ships at all.
It was such a good idea to include them in lock boxes for those who didn't get the grand prize.
Were they as good as fleet ships ?
Not quite, they were down a console, but they were not far enough behind to make them worthless either. Something neat and reasonable for those who didn't have the money to buy the higher end models, but good enough so they could join in on the fun anyway.
Easy enough to get. ect. ect.
Now, they will be two console slots behind, plus boff stations and who knows what else.....
Now they don't even make good consolation prizes. Kinda sad.
Not sure if anyone at Cryptic is reading after 51 pages or cares, but I wanted to say this doesn't sound terrible except for one important point: I think certain ships should get a full Tier 6 upgrade.
To put things into perspective certain ships like say the Voth Bulwark or Jem Hadar attack ship are supposed to be "the most sought after ships in the game" and indeed at some point someone put a vast amount of resources into getting any one of these into the game, especially the Bulwark if it's fully loaded (which takes a Lockbox ship, a Lobi Ship, and a Pack ship).
I can sort of understand why the various Zen ships that are at Tier 5 can just be replaced by new Tier 6 ships (after all there were lower tier ships before) but ships that are related to chance and accumulation mechanics should be handled with more respect than a simple upgrade, even if i's provided for free.
The new "Special" Bridge Officer slot/pool for example is not a simple "bells and whistles" upgrade but a whole new area of mechanics. Lobi and Box/Pack ships should get such a slot after being upgraded. Even from a business perspective Cryptic should be asking why anyone would pay 800 Lobi (and the amount of boxes that takes to open) for a gimpy ship, it means that a good portion of what's already in the store will be neglected. Adding this onto these ships seems like a simple matter to be enabled.
Giving the Lobi and or box/pack ships a special trait to unlock would be nice, but would also take more work. Besides I'm a little less concerned about that since you can apparently unlock traits from other ships and then use them with your favorites. That said given the exotic nature of some of these ships, they strike me as perfect examples of ways to add traits to the game, and will also make these ships more heavily desired... which is going to be a big deal during lockbox resurgences, and encourage people to want to accumulate and spend Lobi. I mean honestly mastering say Voth, Elachi, or Tholian technology should come with some kind of a perk. Though I understand that will probably take too much work at this point.
I do understand that, at the end of the day Cryptic wants to make money, and as everyone maxxes out quickly in STO that means a big business is in selling endgame ships, which in turn generates profits which justify more game content being developed. It's easy to say "yeah people will whine, but we want them to buy new ships, and given our solid player base, eventually they will do so", but at the same time previous investments need to be respected, especially when your dealing with things that required a fairly large investment on the part of the players. Some of the more exotic rides cost more than the $25 a pop for Zen store ships. What's more presumably some of these ships are going to remain in the game via the existing marketplace, and what's the point if they are going to be shunned. At this point Cryptic knows people will chase after bug ships fairly reliably, so why gimp it by not allowing an upgrade with the new
Boff seating?
Finally Cryptic needs to understand that it does not want to drive people away with major content updates, and have people dreading them, as opposed to looking forward to them. If a content update becomes something where people think their hard work and investment of real money (in a FTP game) it's not a good thing. This is a little different than say a subscription based game where gear is rendered obsolete and updated as nobody invested anything but
time into that.
Basically if it's exotic, sold in a market that could stay in the game, there is no reason to not give a full Tier 6 upgrade.
On a conceptual level I suppose part of the idea might be to get a lot of the regulars into more "canon" seeming ships as opposed to flying tons of alien salvage which is immersion breaking for some, but that was a problem inherent in introducing those ships into the game to begin with, and forcing people to give them up after they gave you money (enabling this update) is neither fair nor reasonable. One should not feel like they basically supported the game and their "Reward" for doing so was to be gimped because of it. A whole new series of Boff abilities is not a minor bells and whistles omission.
" Its important to note that while these ships dont always feature a Specialist Bridge Officer seat, all of the Tier 6 ships launching with Delta Rising will feature at least one of these special seats."
I have already bought the life time subscription. 300 Dollars. (USA Dollars)
I have bought the Romulan Legacy Pack 125 Dollars.
I have bought the Oddy 3-pack 50 dollars
Scimitar 3 pack 50 dollars
Vesta 3 pack 50 dollars
Andorian escort 3 pack 50 dollars.
for a total of 625 Dollars. USA Dollars.
This dose not include the other ships I have bought for the Romulans, klingons and federation. AS well as the 5 dollars for various fleet ship modules
I have spent over a thousand dollars on this game including the months I paid the monthly subscription fee before I could buy the life time sub. over the course of my four year membership. NOW you are ASKING me to spend MORE MONEY to upgrade ships I have flown for many years?
YOU ARE OUTTA YOUR MINDS!
That is much kinder that what I wanted to say.
My advice is the Fleet ships. Make them BY DEFAULT Tier 6 ships. With ALL the Bells and Whistles of a FULL Tier 6 ship. People are already spending between $20 - $30 four fleet modules if you do not have the needed ship from the C-store. The fleet credits and Dilithium, Or more if you DO have the ship and need only one fleet module. These Should be elevated to tier 6 automatically.
The Various other ships you can only fly at level 50. The Oddy, Vesta, the Bortas, Scimitar, Andorian escorts. I agree make them upgradable. BUT NOT FOR ZEN. Also because of it, you should make them Upgradable to tier 6 with all the bells and Whistles as well. I already PAID 50 dollars for a three pack. NOW you want me to pay between $5-$10 MORE to make it a Tier 6 ship, AND IT DOES NOT GET ALL THE PERKS? OUTRAGEOUS!!!:mad::mad::mad:
My suggestion is make the upgrade cost R&D components. With the Consoles you can now Craft are Account Bind on Equip. It takes the serious sting out of adding a pure Dilithium needed to craft components Add into the fact they are... not bound. Even Less of a Sting.
Now For the ships that you can fly at level 40, The Tier 5 Nebula, Excelsior, Vulcan D'kyr. They should also be upgradable. Even to full Tier 6. Even if it does cost MORE Materials. I am only missing four federation ships from the c-store. The tier 5 D'kyr, the tier 3 nebula, The Tier 5 Intrepid, and the Tier 5 Tempest.
I won't touch the Dyson Destroyer Mega pack until Devs put the special warp/Singularity core it in the respective ships.
I spent a lot of Money on Star Trek Online. And STILL Spend every few months money to get 5000 Zen. I have 27 Toons, Characters created for Star Trek Online. Now you are asking me to spend even More money? Just to make my ships competitive, and they don't get all the Perks.
If this goes live, Pay Zen to upgrade your ship, but you don't get all the bells and whistles... I will never upgrade my ships to Tier 6, Not even using my stipend. Because I can spend that on other things more useful to me.
I agree there should be an upgrade. But when you do add the upgrade. Make it a mission, not a simple button press. Make it interactive. You fly your ship to the ship yards, and help in the upgrade.
Upon reading more threads, this looks great. A reasonable compromise all around. Thanks, I'll be buying a package in reflection of my appreciation for your keeping so many ships quite competitive.
I swear *munches popcorn* it's pretty bad in here.
I'm more surprised that people are surprised. And I figured that most of this outrage would've been expended over the last two weeks.
Nooooopee(ala Lana Kane) - level headed peoples were saying "Just wait! They haven't actually said anything yet! You're just jumping to conclusions!" etc., etc.....
Welp here we are....let the hate flow through you(plural)!
The starship trait ANY ship can use, it just takes a T6 ship to unlock it in the first place.
The 13 BOFF ability/specialized BOFF seating aren't a T6 feature, as it will not be on every tier 6 ship after X2's launch. It's more of a gimmick than anything.
You're overreacting.
(this is actually the FOURTH time I had to post this exact thing)
I read the whole article and looked at the chart, and the bit about future t6 ships not having the seat, i find that a bit silly because who is going to give up the extra boff seat to play some other ship without it? My point is charge me, I'm ok with paying for a full upgrade.
Would you rather they not raise the cap give us new content and new systems / abilities?
Well, yeah, I would.
Because to me; "here are shiny new ships at T5! don't want them? That's OK, keep using the ships you love and enjoy the DR content!"
sounds much better than;
"YO DAWG, WANT TO KEEP USING YOUR OLD SHIPS? THAT'LL COST YOU ZEN. AND HERE'S SOME NEW SHIPS THAT ARE BETTER THAN YOUR UPGRADED SHIPS ANYWAY. OH THAT ALSO COSTS ZEN KTHX".
This sort of [Redacted] is exactly why you should be listening to players waaaay in advance of actually committing to stuff like this.
You're just a machine. And machines can be broken.
Actually Fleet ships were a "cap increase" of sorts which presented the very same challenges and was met with a less adequate solution (for example, we are still waiting on some upgrades). Perhaps if they branded it as T6 back in Season 6 fewer people would be getting lost on their way to conceptualizing what T5-U means.
I never understood why Fleet ships were not called T6, they were a Tier upgrade in every way except boff seating. Just think of this new T6 as T7 and everything looks perfectly normal.
Alright, everyone here who got a free T5.5 Fleet variant of a c-store ship when it was released raise your hand.
Anyone? Anyone?
Bueller?
Thats what I thought. This is a NEW TIER. That means HIGHER than the current ones. Why do you expect to get your new T5-U ship for free? How about you try and EARN it. Zen can be gotten with dil which is earnable for free. They say 500 zen when they could just as easily say 80K dilithium. How much do Rear Adm. ships cost again? 120K dilithium? And those are base T5 ships.
I suppose you demanded a free Fleet ship once you reached lvl 50 too. You didn't? Thats strange.
The difference is that the fleet ships where the same upgrade to every ship, but in this case the T5-U ships are not the same as T6 ships. I would be perfectly content to pay to upgrade ships a straight T6 level, but it is a little unfair for them to expect us to pay for a half measure. They either need to do the current planned upgrades for free for non-fleet ships, and a purchase upgrade to make T5 fleet ships into T6, or it needs to be a flat puchase to upgrade all ships to t6.
Just to be clear, the biggest difference is there that the older ships no longer exsist in the highest tier of ships.
In other words, when th fleet upgrade happened, there was aT5 Defiant and a Fleet Defiant. I am ok for paying to upgrade my defiant.
In this system the option is pay to get a little upgrade on the class of ship you like, or scrap it for the full upgrade.
It is less about the fact content will not require it... honestly, there is very little content in this game that really *requires* someone to have awesome gear/ships. It is more about the fact that the class of ship each person fell in love with is now being delegated to a "subpar" choice, even though the real difference in the ships is not much it is more of the psycology of it being a "less than optimal" choice.
did I not say cyptic was going to do upgrade just like this less night. for once I glad to be right.
I'm surprised it has the hull upgrade and that event ships get them for free. the lobi/lockbox sure. at this point all my characters have about 2 -3 free upgrades wanting to happen.
and is it just me or do upgrades get all the good bells and whistles. and the only one they don't have is the one I couldn't care less about. I really don't need more moves. I have trouble finding uses for the ones I have now.
There isn't any different direction, the specialist seat is the First Officer set of powers we never got years ago with a new name. I don't expect a free upgrade, just charge me for a full one. We're all going to end up in the same 3 ships the way they are doing it, if they do a full upgrade people will still have to pay for it but they get to keep what they like as well as get the new ship if they prefer.
The difference is that the fleet ships where the same upgrade to every ship, but in this case the T5-U ships are not the same as T6 ships. I would be perfectly content to pay to upgrade ships a straight T6 level, but it is a little unfair for them to expect us to pay for a half measure. They either need to do the current planned upgrades for free for non-fleet ships, and a purchase upgrade to make T5 fleet ships into T6, or it needs to be a flat puchase to upgrade all ships to t6.
Just to be clear, the biggest difference is there is the older ships no longer exsist in the highest tier of ships.
In other words, when th fleet upgrade happened, there was aT5 Defiant and a Fleet Defiant. I am ok for paying to upgrade my defiant.
In this system the option is pay to get a little upgrade on the class of ship you like, or TRIBBLE it for the full upgrade.
It is less about the fact contact will not require it... honestly, there is very little content in this game that really *requires* someone to have awesome gear/ships. It is more about the fact that the class of ship each person fell in love with is now being delegated to a "subpar" choice, even though the real difference in the ships is not much it is more of the psycology of it being a "less than optimal" choice.
anything not made this year is no longer top tier and most of the whining is about ship way older then that.
I mean really we got a way to update our favorite ships to be more or less as good as the new thing and people are still QQing about aren't they are good enough. it's no question why cryptic doesn't take any feedback from the forum anymore.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
Yeah, people make rage posts about being given stuff for free....
only vet and lobi/lockbox/event ships are free. The other half of the ships are flown by a vast majority of players and they (like me) are getting the shaft.
Cryptic believes they have us over a barrel and a tube of lube in hand. They're not going to rethink anything until they're tried to TRIBBLE us as hard as they can.
I'm voting with my wallet. That's the only thing they seem to care about.
I just wanted to write something similar.
No matter how much ppl are going to complain or ask for full T6 upgrades, ppl in charge surely won't listen. They never do to criticism or things they don't like, it's just ranting and hate in their eyes.
@everyone:
Your wallet is the only voice you have in this matter.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
" Its important to note that while these ships dont always feature a Specialist Bridge Officer seat, all of the Tier 6 ships launching with Delta Rising will feature at least one of these special seats."
YOU. ARE. OVERREACTING.
The blog this thread is actually about says quite clearly that tier 6 will have 'an additional bridge officer ability' over upgraded tier 5. It's in the image chart where they explain the differences. The quote you gave me proves my exact point, there WILL be an extra bridge officer ability on tier 6 ships, it may or may not be from the new boff variant coming in delta rising.
I'd like it more if my T5 ships could be on the same level as the T6 ships, even if it required money to do so. I am not surprised by the news that they will be competitive but inferior to the T6 ships, but as someone who enjoys playing with the best ships available it seems as if I may have very few ships to choose from. I want that pool to be larger.
You already have a very small list to choose from. You want the very best FED cruiser you have to use the Avenger. Warbird? Scimitar. Science ship? Arguably the Vesta. That's what you get when you let stats inform what you fly, there's inevitably going to be a single ship to use from every category which is going to represent what you have to choose from. Now we're simply getting a different set of "best ships" (ie. full T6) with the rest falling back as "slightly sub-optimal." Its merely a substitution, not a reduction.
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only vet and lobi/lockbox/event ships are free. The other half of the ships are flown by a vast majority of players and they (like me) are getting the shaft.
I was talking about the rage posts that people made back when Cryptic gave everyone a free bank size upgrade....
I'd like it more if my T5 ships could be on the same level as the T6 ships, even if it required money to do so. I am not surprised by the news that they will be competitive but inferior to the T6 ships, but as someone who enjoys playing with the best ships available it seems as if I may have very few ships to choose from. I want that pool to be larger.
I consider a lot of the free upgrades to be generous for a F2P game, but perhaps an alternative option would simply be to grant veteran players a free upgrade item so that they can upgrade their favorite ship at no additional cost?
But they have said that each tier 6 with be unique in seating and a unique unlock able trait. So think about the dev time to accomplish that on ALL those ships.
I think they came up with a compromise that is adequate. If you want to fly a non tier 6 , pay the unlock and keep on going in your current ride. Otherwise fly the ship that if you are a member or lifetimer you will most likely get for free, like every other tier in the game.
I was talking about the rage posts that people made back when Cryptic gave everyone a free bank size upgrade....
And what, directly, does that have to do with the ships? I assumed you were referring to the ships because that would be the logical thing to think. I guess not...
NEWS FLASH: You guys are only thinking about the ship costs. They still haven't announced XIV equipment and consoles yet, so all of your rep and fleet gear for those ships will need to be upgraded too, at a small cost.
Feel better? :eek:
Yup prepare 26$(27$) for a ci ship upgrade. 10$ ship, 6 $ beam arrays, 10 $ consoles plus 1$ hangar. and all of that just for free
The difference is that the fleet ships where the same upgrade to every ship, but in this case the T5-U ships are not the same as T6 ships. I would be perfectly content to pay to upgrade ships a straight T6 level, but it is a little unfair for them to expect us to pay for a half measure. They either need to do the current planned upgrades for free for non-fleet ships, and a purchase upgrade to make T5 fleet ships into T6, or it needs to be a flat puchase to upgrade all ships to t6.
The only difference between T5-U and T6 will be the extra boff slot. Thats it. You will have the same number of consoles, the same stats, eventually the same ship traits, and not all T6 ships get the new BOFF type/abilities.
One BOFF ability is the only difference.
Think of it not as an upgrade but as buying a whole new ship just like T5->Fleet is right now. There is no reason that should be free
Considering 99% of the things in the game can be gotten for free, yes most people can use them.
How frequently do you actually *play* STO with most players? Really?
STO's notes are ridiculously vague and useless at their best. I've seen people using Mk VI gear in ESTFs. Mark. Six.
Well, yes, in theory, yes, "most people" can use/have fleet ships and gear.
In practice? Go into a random PUG and use Gateway to check all their builds. See how many people are using fleet gear and ships. Go ahead, I'm genuinely curious.
It was such a good idea to include them in lock boxes for those who didn't get the grand prize.
Were they as good as fleet ships ?
Not quite, they were down a console, but they were not far enough behind to make them worthless either. Something neat and reasonable for those who didn't have the money to buy the higher end models, but good enough so they could join in on the fun anyway.
Easy enough to get. ect. ect.
Now, they will be two console slots behind, plus boff stations and who knows what else.....
Now they don't even make good consolation prizes. Kinda sad.
You know, my Romulan flies the Mirror Mogai because it has that Sci LCdr Boff and the Cdr Tactical. And she's beautiful, the only reason I wanted a Romulan is I wanted to fly Donatra's Warbird.
That's probably the only bad thing here, the lack of consideration for the canon vessels or even vessels that duplicate their visual feel and lineage.
However I did like the look of that Tier 6 Romulan Warbird schematic so maybe all hope isn't lost.
Nooooopee(ala Lana Kane) - level headed peoples were saying "Just wait! They haven't actually said anything yet! You're just jumping to conclusions!" etc., etc.....
Welp here we are....let the hate flow through you(plural)!
That's a good point I suppose.
New rage over the actual facts.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
The ships are not garbage and won't be. They will lack a couple features that the new ship has. Even the older ships are little under rated compared to the "Fleet", 10 consul, and 5 forward weapon some has.
After seeing the new content won't require upgraded and T6 ships. I'm happy since that is all I do. Where I see the Upgraded and T6 shine is STF/Elite STF, and PVP. Which is more where you will see them in action. I don't do those, so my regular ships will do just fine.
Well from my perspective I thought the Voth Bulwark was cool looking (so ugly it sort of inverts on itself and becomes appealing), and makes me feel sort of like the pilot of a Captain-Harlock type space blimp.... I spent real money and a *LOT* of in game resources to get one of these with all 3 consoles (requiring the full Voth ship set) and of course then kit it out with various ultra rare and rep based weapons and systems. It's actually not min-maxxed, but is fun to fly.
Cryptic's own reasoning was for this to be the new "most sought after ship" and frankly given how much it takes, despite high stats, I don't see many of them. Indeed I'm not sure if I've ever run a space STF with someone else flying one, and I get the occasional tells and stuff with people asking me about it.
A big part of my problem here is that Cryptic wants to take my favorite ship and basically say "hey, if you keep using this, we're going to punish you, because even after the upgrade your going to give up a whole specialty Boff feature".
The thing is I have multiple characters and will probably buy Tier 6 ships for others (the one I'm mentioning is character specific, not account wide), I mean heck, I'm not shy about paying to support games I play. I simply feel kind of offended by being told I have to give up my favorite ship on my main if I want to fully appreciate the additions coming this season, after everything I put into that ship in particular. It actually makes me more reluctant to spend money on the game.
Of course understand I'm talking about very specific ships here, I have less of a problem with some of the general Tier 5 Zen ships being rendered obsolete (and for the record I have a good number of those) I mean that's just like a rank increase where they had paid ships for lower ranks, and face it, for one of these someone just swiped a Credit Card for a guaranteed result. Other ships required more gambling, and usually a greater investment.
Not to mention when it comes to Lobi and such which came from people opening lockboxes (and a fully kitted Voth Ship, and some others have Lobi-based components, as you need consoles from Lobi ships to finish a set) all Cryptic is doing is telling people not to bother with the currency. Not to mention me wondering who the heck would pay 800 Lobi for the ships there now if they are going to be gimpy compared to Tier 6 ships due to not having either a trait or special Boff seating. I suppose they could remove them from the game, and stop recycling old lockboxes for that matter, but it seems like a waste of content.
No upgrade for mirror ships? That sucks considering one of the selling points of lock boxes are mirror ships. Though the 1 blog implies that ships which can't be upgraded to T5U at launch may be upgradeable in the future.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/7002163
In the first list, for ships that can be upgraded for free (lobi/lock box/events/etc.) you have Romulan Dyson Science Destroyer listed twice. I believe 1 is suppose to be the KDF version. Question: does the free upgrade pertain to only the Dyson Science Destroyer given away for free then later added to the lobi store for the anniversary event? You should make a note that it doesn't include the c-store versions so people are clear if that's the case.
Aside from mirror ships not getting an upgrade, 1 thing concerns me: ships awarded from episodes can't be upgraded. This means the free tier 5 Ambassador and tier 5 Kamarag given as a reward for completing 'Temporal Ambassador' during the 3rd year anniversary can't be upgraded. One thing that has bugged me is there never was a c-store version of these 2 ships. Instead they had fleet versions added which come with an extra console slot and bonus HP and whatever else fleet ships have. So, the only way for my characters who got the basic T5 version of these ships to have a T5U is to buy 4 fleet ship modules each and then purchase a single upgrade for each ship. The Ambassador and Kamarag being excluded from the c-store is the reason I've never bothered to purchase the fleet versions, as much as I'd like to have them.
so under that logic fleet ships should be free. they are upgrades to the existing ship you bought....
They should have, but, obviously, were not. So I paid more. I'm not paying more and I'm NOT letting the stuff I paid for become second rate. I don't care if that's what all MMOs are doing. It's not right and it's time for change. More content, less grinding.
I feel like Chekhov at the beginning of Star Trek II, when he was trying to warn Captain Jerrell about Dr, Marcus' reaction.
"Maybe it can be transplanted?"
"You KNOW what she'll say."
Cryptic you know what we'll say, don't you?
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
Comments
It was such a good idea to include them in lock boxes for those who didn't get the grand prize.
Were they as good as fleet ships ?
Not quite, they were down a console, but they were not far enough behind to make them worthless either. Something neat and reasonable for those who didn't have the money to buy the higher end models, but good enough so they could join in on the fun anyway.
Easy enough to get. ect. ect.
Now, they will be two console slots behind, plus boff stations and who knows what else.....
Now they don't even make good consolation prizes. Kinda sad.
To put things into perspective certain ships like say the Voth Bulwark or Jem Hadar attack ship are supposed to be "the most sought after ships in the game" and indeed at some point someone put a vast amount of resources into getting any one of these into the game, especially the Bulwark if it's fully loaded (which takes a Lockbox ship, a Lobi Ship, and a Pack ship).
I can sort of understand why the various Zen ships that are at Tier 5 can just be replaced by new Tier 6 ships (after all there were lower tier ships before) but ships that are related to chance and accumulation mechanics should be handled with more respect than a simple upgrade, even if i's provided for free.
The new "Special" Bridge Officer slot/pool for example is not a simple "bells and whistles" upgrade but a whole new area of mechanics. Lobi and Box/Pack ships should get such a slot after being upgraded. Even from a business perspective Cryptic should be asking why anyone would pay 800 Lobi (and the amount of boxes that takes to open) for a gimpy ship, it means that a good portion of what's already in the store will be neglected. Adding this onto these ships seems like a simple matter to be enabled.
Giving the Lobi and or box/pack ships a special trait to unlock would be nice, but would also take more work. Besides I'm a little less concerned about that since you can apparently unlock traits from other ships and then use them with your favorites. That said given the exotic nature of some of these ships, they strike me as perfect examples of ways to add traits to the game, and will also make these ships more heavily desired... which is going to be a big deal during lockbox resurgences, and encourage people to want to accumulate and spend Lobi. I mean honestly mastering say Voth, Elachi, or Tholian technology should come with some kind of a perk. Though I understand that will probably take too much work at this point.
I do understand that, at the end of the day Cryptic wants to make money, and as everyone maxxes out quickly in STO that means a big business is in selling endgame ships, which in turn generates profits which justify more game content being developed. It's easy to say "yeah people will whine, but we want them to buy new ships, and given our solid player base, eventually they will do so", but at the same time previous investments need to be respected, especially when your dealing with things that required a fairly large investment on the part of the players. Some of the more exotic rides cost more than the $25 a pop for Zen store ships. What's more presumably some of these ships are going to remain in the game via the existing marketplace, and what's the point if they are going to be shunned. At this point Cryptic knows people will chase after bug ships fairly reliably, so why gimp it by not allowing an upgrade with the new
Boff seating?
Finally Cryptic needs to understand that it does not want to drive people away with major content updates, and have people dreading them, as opposed to looking forward to them. If a content update becomes something where people think their hard work and investment of real money (in a FTP game) it's not a good thing. This is a little different than say a subscription based game where gear is rendered obsolete and updated as nobody invested anything but
time into that.
Basically if it's exotic, sold in a market that could stay in the game, there is no reason to not give a full Tier 6 upgrade.
On a conceptual level I suppose part of the idea might be to get a lot of the regulars into more "canon" seeming ships as opposed to flying tons of alien salvage which is immersion breaking for some, but that was a problem inherent in introducing those ships into the game to begin with, and forcing people to give them up after they gave you money (enabling this update) is neither fair nor reasonable. One should not feel like they basically supported the game and their "Reward" for doing so was to be gimped because of it. A whole new series of Boff abilities is not a minor bells and whistles omission.
" Its important to note that while these ships dont always feature a Specialist Bridge Officer seat, all of the Tier 6 ships launching with Delta Rising will feature at least one of these special seats."
YOU. ARE. OVERREACTING.
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I have already bought the life time subscription. 300 Dollars. (USA Dollars)
I have bought the Romulan Legacy Pack 125 Dollars.
I have bought the Oddy 3-pack 50 dollars
Scimitar 3 pack 50 dollars
Vesta 3 pack 50 dollars
Andorian escort 3 pack 50 dollars.
for a total of 625 Dollars. USA Dollars.
This dose not include the other ships I have bought for the Romulans, klingons and federation. AS well as the 5 dollars for various fleet ship modules
I have spent over a thousand dollars on this game including the months I paid the monthly subscription fee before I could buy the life time sub. over the course of my four year membership. NOW you are ASKING me to spend MORE MONEY to upgrade ships I have flown for many years?
YOU ARE OUTTA YOUR MINDS!
That is much kinder that what I wanted to say.
My advice is the Fleet ships. Make them BY DEFAULT Tier 6 ships. With ALL the Bells and Whistles of a FULL Tier 6 ship. People are already spending between $20 - $30 four fleet modules if you do not have the needed ship from the C-store. The fleet credits and Dilithium, Or more if you DO have the ship and need only one fleet module. These Should be elevated to tier 6 automatically.
The Various other ships you can only fly at level 50. The Oddy, Vesta, the Bortas, Scimitar, Andorian escorts. I agree make them upgradable. BUT NOT FOR ZEN. Also because of it, you should make them Upgradable to tier 6 with all the bells and Whistles as well. I already PAID 50 dollars for a three pack. NOW you want me to pay between $5-$10 MORE to make it a Tier 6 ship, AND IT DOES NOT GET ALL THE PERKS? OUTRAGEOUS!!!:mad::mad::mad:
My suggestion is make the upgrade cost R&D components. With the Consoles you can now Craft are Account Bind on Equip. It takes the serious sting out of adding a pure Dilithium needed to craft components Add into the fact they are... not bound. Even Less of a Sting.
Now For the ships that you can fly at level 40, The Tier 5 Nebula, Excelsior, Vulcan D'kyr. They should also be upgradable. Even to full Tier 6. Even if it does cost MORE Materials. I am only missing four federation ships from the c-store. The tier 5 D'kyr, the tier 3 nebula, The Tier 5 Intrepid, and the Tier 5 Tempest.
I won't touch the Dyson Destroyer Mega pack until Devs put the special warp/Singularity core it in the respective ships.
I spent a lot of Money on Star Trek Online. And STILL Spend every few months money to get 5000 Zen. I have 27 Toons, Characters created for Star Trek Online. Now you are asking me to spend even More money? Just to make my ships competitive, and they don't get all the Perks.
If this goes live, Pay Zen to upgrade your ship, but you don't get all the bells and whistles... I will never upgrade my ships to Tier 6, Not even using my stipend. Because I can spend that on other things more useful to me.
I agree there should be an upgrade. But when you do add the upgrade. Make it a mission, not a simple button press. Make it interactive. You fly your ship to the ship yards, and help in the upgrade.
Nooooopee(ala Lana Kane) - level headed peoples were saying "Just wait! They haven't actually said anything yet! You're just jumping to conclusions!" etc., etc.....
Welp here we are....let the hate flow through you(plural)!
I read the whole article and looked at the chart, and the bit about future t6 ships not having the seat, i find that a bit silly because who is going to give up the extra boff seat to play some other ship without it? My point is charge me, I'm ok with paying for a full upgrade.
Dec/2008
Well, yeah, I would.
Because to me; "here are shiny new ships at T5! don't want them? That's OK, keep using the ships you love and enjoy the DR content!"
sounds much better than;
"YO DAWG, WANT TO KEEP USING YOUR OLD SHIPS? THAT'LL COST YOU ZEN. AND HERE'S SOME NEW SHIPS THAT ARE BETTER THAN YOUR UPGRADED SHIPS ANYWAY. OH THAT ALSO COSTS ZEN KTHX".
This sort of [Redacted] is exactly why you should be listening to players waaaay in advance of actually committing to stuff like this.
I never understood why Fleet ships were not called T6, they were a Tier upgrade in every way except boff seating. Just think of this new T6 as T7 and everything looks perfectly normal.
My character Tsin'xing
The difference is that the fleet ships where the same upgrade to every ship, but in this case the T5-U ships are not the same as T6 ships. I would be perfectly content to pay to upgrade ships a straight T6 level, but it is a little unfair for them to expect us to pay for a half measure. They either need to do the current planned upgrades for free for non-fleet ships, and a purchase upgrade to make T5 fleet ships into T6, or it needs to be a flat puchase to upgrade all ships to t6.
Just to be clear, the biggest difference is there that the older ships no longer exsist in the highest tier of ships.
In other words, when th fleet upgrade happened, there was aT5 Defiant and a Fleet Defiant. I am ok for paying to upgrade my defiant.
In this system the option is pay to get a little upgrade on the class of ship you like, or scrap it for the full upgrade.
It is less about the fact content will not require it... honestly, there is very little content in this game that really *requires* someone to have awesome gear/ships. It is more about the fact that the class of ship each person fell in love with is now being delegated to a "subpar" choice, even though the real difference in the ships is not much it is more of the psycology of it being a "less than optimal" choice.
I'm surprised it has the hull upgrade and that event ships get them for free. the lobi/lockbox sure. at this point all my characters have about 2 -3 free upgrades wanting to happen.
and is it just me or do upgrades get all the good bells and whistles. and the only one they don't have is the one I couldn't care less about. I really don't need more moves. I have trouble finding uses for the ones I have now.
anything not made this year is no longer top tier and most of the whining is about ship way older then that.
I mean really we got a way to update our favorite ships to be more or less as good as the new thing and people are still QQing about aren't they are good enough. it's no question why cryptic doesn't take any feedback from the forum anymore.
if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
I just wanted to write something similar.
No matter how much ppl are going to complain or ask for full T6 upgrades, ppl in charge surely won't listen. They never do to criticism or things they don't like, it's just ranting and hate in their eyes.
@everyone:
Your wallet is the only voice you have in this matter.
You already have a very small list to choose from. You want the very best FED cruiser you have to use the Avenger. Warbird? Scimitar. Science ship? Arguably the Vesta. That's what you get when you let stats inform what you fly, there's inevitably going to be a single ship to use from every category which is going to represent what you have to choose from. Now we're simply getting a different set of "best ships" (ie. full T6) with the rest falling back as "slightly sub-optimal." Its merely a substitution, not a reduction.
Notable missions: Apex [AEI], Gemini [SSF], Trident [AEI], Evolution's Smile [SSF], Transcendence
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My character Tsin'xing
But they have said that each tier 6 with be unique in seating and a unique unlock able trait. So think about the dev time to accomplish that on ALL those ships.
I think they came up with a compromise that is adequate. If you want to fly a non tier 6 , pay the unlock and keep on going in your current ride. Otherwise fly the ship that if you are a member or lifetimer you will most likely get for free, like every other tier in the game.
And what, directly, does that have to do with the ships? I assumed you were referring to the ships because that would be the logical thing to think. I guess not...
Yup prepare 26$(27$) for a ci ship upgrade. 10$ ship, 6 $ beam arrays, 10 $ consoles plus 1$ hangar.
The only difference between T5-U and T6 will be the extra boff slot. Thats it. You will have the same number of consoles, the same stats, eventually the same ship traits, and not all T6 ships get the new BOFF type/abilities.
One BOFF ability is the only difference.
Think of it not as an upgrade but as buying a whole new ship just like T5->Fleet is right now. There is no reason that should be free
Agreed, they could call it another veteran perk.
How frequently do you actually *play* STO with most players? Really?
STO's notes are ridiculously vague and useless at their best. I've seen people using Mk VI gear in ESTFs. Mark. Six.
Well, yes, in theory, yes, "most people" can use/have fleet ships and gear.
In practice? Go into a random PUG and use Gateway to check all their builds. See how many people are using fleet gear and ships. Go ahead, I'm genuinely curious.
so under that logic fleet ships should be free. they are upgrades to the existing ship you bought....
So a Tier 6 would have a Cdr, LCdr, Lt, Lt, and an ens + Specialist.
A Tier 5-U would have a Cdr, LCdr, Lt, Lt, and Lt
or
Cdr, LCdr, LCdr, LT, and ens.
So the tier 5-U ships would still have thirteen boff powers, but they would be specifically different from the Tier 6 ships. Not lesser but different.
You know, my Romulan flies the Mirror Mogai because it has that Sci LCdr Boff and the Cdr Tactical. And she's beautiful, the only reason I wanted a Romulan is I wanted to fly Donatra's Warbird.
That's probably the only bad thing here, the lack of consideration for the canon vessels or even vessels that duplicate their visual feel and lineage.
However I did like the look of that Tier 6 Romulan Warbird schematic so maybe all hope isn't lost.
Still want my Mogai though.
That's a good point I suppose.
New rage over the actual facts.
Well from my perspective I thought the Voth Bulwark was cool looking (so ugly it sort of inverts on itself and becomes appealing), and makes me feel sort of like the pilot of a Captain-Harlock type space blimp.... I spent real money and a *LOT* of in game resources to get one of these with all 3 consoles (requiring the full Voth ship set) and of course then kit it out with various ultra rare and rep based weapons and systems. It's actually not min-maxxed, but is fun to fly.
Cryptic's own reasoning was for this to be the new "most sought after ship" and frankly given how much it takes, despite high stats, I don't see many of them. Indeed I'm not sure if I've ever run a space STF with someone else flying one, and I get the occasional tells and stuff with people asking me about it.
A big part of my problem here is that Cryptic wants to take my favorite ship and basically say "hey, if you keep using this, we're going to punish you, because even after the upgrade your going to give up a whole specialty Boff feature".
The thing is I have multiple characters and will probably buy Tier 6 ships for others (the one I'm mentioning is character specific, not account wide), I mean heck, I'm not shy about paying to support games I play. I simply feel kind of offended by being told I have to give up my favorite ship on my main if I want to fully appreciate the additions coming this season, after everything I put into that ship in particular. It actually makes me more reluctant to spend money on the game.
Of course understand I'm talking about very specific ships here, I have less of a problem with some of the general Tier 5 Zen ships being rendered obsolete (and for the record I have a good number of those) I mean that's just like a rank increase where they had paid ships for lower ranks, and face it, for one of these someone just swiped a Credit Card for a guaranteed result. Other ships required more gambling, and usually a greater investment.
Not to mention when it comes to Lobi and such which came from people opening lockboxes (and a fully kitted Voth Ship, and some others have Lobi-based components, as you need consoles from Lobi ships to finish a set) all Cryptic is doing is telling people not to bother with the currency. Not to mention me wondering who the heck would pay 800 Lobi for the ships there now if they are going to be gimpy compared to Tier 6 ships due to not having either a trait or special Boff seating. I suppose they could remove them from the game, and stop recycling old lockboxes for that matter, but it seems like a waste of content.
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/7002163
In the first list, for ships that can be upgraded for free (lobi/lock box/events/etc.) you have Romulan Dyson Science Destroyer listed twice. I believe 1 is suppose to be the KDF version. Question: does the free upgrade pertain to only the Dyson Science Destroyer given away for free then later added to the lobi store for the anniversary event? You should make a note that it doesn't include the c-store versions so people are clear if that's the case.
Aside from mirror ships not getting an upgrade, 1 thing concerns me: ships awarded from episodes can't be upgraded. This means the free tier 5 Ambassador and tier 5 Kamarag given as a reward for completing 'Temporal Ambassador' during the 3rd year anniversary can't be upgraded. One thing that has bugged me is there never was a c-store version of these 2 ships. Instead they had fleet versions added which come with an extra console slot and bonus HP and whatever else fleet ships have. So, the only way for my characters who got the basic T5 version of these ships to have a T5U is to buy 4 fleet ship modules each and then purchase a single upgrade for each ship. The Ambassador and Kamarag being excluded from the c-store is the reason I've never bothered to purchase the fleet versions, as much as I'd like to have them.
They should have, but, obviously, were not. So I paid more. I'm not paying more and I'm NOT letting the stuff I paid for become second rate. I don't care if that's what all MMOs are doing. It's not right and it's time for change. More content, less grinding.
"Maybe it can be transplanted?"
"You KNOW what she'll say."
Cryptic you know what we'll say, don't you?