this. no one should be surprised, it was never going to be free, it was always going to be either dil or zen.
i pity anyone with a fleet ship right now.
Well they will still get the same upgrade from fleet status. So the Fleet Avenger U vs the Avenger U will still be stronger but still won't be as good as a tier 6 ship.
Anybody who thought otherwise you were dreaming. ofcourse they had to make tier 6 ships stronger, or what's the point?
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
One other thing that bugs me, though. Fleet ships are bought on a per-character basis. But the upgrades will be account-wide?
Does that mean if I get a Fleet Defiant on one character and upgrade it, that if I got the Fleet Defiant on another character it would automatically get the upgrade?
I think that the upgrades for Fleet and T5 C-Store ships will end up just getting you a Tier 5 Upgraded version, no difference between upgrading the C-Store or Fleet version. I'm not sure (or anyone else really). Basically, Fleet and Non-Fleet C-Store ships will lead to the same T5-U ship, and that T5-U version will be account wide available.
This post is huge from a PvP perspective. Fleet/Lockbox/Lobi starships won't get that extra bridge officer ability slot (i.e. Lt. to Lt. Commander) like the Tier VI ships, but Tier VI ships will only have 10 console slots. This means that upgraded Fleet/Lockbox/Lobi starships will have an extra console slot AND the Tier V-U extra console slot for 11 console slots. Thus Tier V-U ships will trade an extra bridge officer upgrade for an extra console slot. They also trade the ability to have unique bridge officer abilities for +10% hull/shields over Tier VI ships. Not perfect, but of interest to us.
It creates a confusing jumble of a mess, carrying on the proud tradition that is T5. Meh...
I'm just having a hard time understanding how Cryptic plans to keep the cash from lockbox ships flowing in when the grand prizes are substantially lower in quality from the newest shiny T6's from the C-Store. What's my incentive to buy keys for gamble boxes if I can just outright buy an objectively better ship (sorry--the extra boff ability alone makes this so) for $35 or whatever. It just seems like a terrible business move to shoot the cash cow when it's still producing.
Additionally a T5-U upgraded lockbox/lobi ship will have 11 console slots vs. a standard T6 ship's 10 console slots.
That's a bit disingenuous, comparing lockbox to c-store. Lockbox T6 will presumably have 11 (plus the other extras). C-store T6 with fleet upgrade will also presumably have 11.
Do we even know there's going to be a tomorrow? Cryptic can't be trusted. They've probably already planned to throw a drop of Red Matter into Earth's core.
The thought crossed our minds. However, we'd like to keep Fleet Modules specific to purchasing fleet ships and whatever we do for T5-Us to be entirely seperate.
Upgraded Lockbox ships aren't inferior to T6s ships. Existing lockbox ships lack the 13th bridge officer power once they're upgraded and they don't have a Starship Trait, but they generally have superior hull and shield mods. Additionally a T5-U upgraded lockbox/lobi ship will have 11 console slots vs. a standard T6 ship's 10 console slots.
Good question. Here's the breakdown on Fleet ships. Right now, Fleet Ships offer +1 console slot, +10% Hull HP and +10% Shield HP over a standard T5 ship. If you were to upgrade a Fleet Ship to T5-U, it would gain all the benefits mentioned:
-Bonus scaling HP
-Starship Mastery passive abilities
-+1 Console Slot
The short answer to your question is no. They will have 10% better shield and hull than the non-fleet T5-U variant and have +1 console slot.
I think you'll find this statement to not be true once Delta Rising goes live. A T5-U Lockbox/Lobi ships is still an incredibly powerful ship even compared to a T6 ship. Also, your first two points are the same thing. The 5th Starship Mastery level is just unlocking the starship trait.
I hope to be able to answer more questions later today.
Thanks,
Phil "Gorngonzolla" Zeleski
Cryptic Studios
Systems Designer
Thanks for simplifying things... so basically if I understand correctly... we buy a module that rewards these items to your ship on top of what your ship currently has:
-Bonus scaling HP
-Starship Mastery passive abilities
-+1 Console Slot
So these lobi and fleet ships will actually have more console slots than a t6 ship which is a big difference. I think this could work out even better than one extra boff ability especially since we don't know what said boff ability is. I knew you all would find some way to balance things out.
Gold Sub since March 2010
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
No, but most MMO's don't try to squeeze extra money out of you for the privilige of progressing your character. :rolleyes:
They also said you would be able to play the content in out current ships.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
I'm just having a hard time understanding how Cryptic plans to keep the cash from lockbox ships flowing in when the grand prizes are substantially lower in quality from the newest shiny T6's from the C-Store. What's my incentive to buy keys for gamble boxes if I can just outright buy an objectively better ship (sorry--the extra boff ability alone makes this so) for $35 or whatever. It just seems like a terrible business move to shoot the cash cow when it's still producing.
Come on - you just know that all Lockbox ships that get into the game post-DR will be T6 Lockbox ships.
You're just a machine. And machines can be broken.
Purchase Tier 5 ship: 2000 - 2500 Zen
Purchase Upgrade to Tier 5U: 500 to 1000 Zen
Purchase Fleet Module for Fleet Tier 5U: 500 Zen
So pretty much we went from paying $20 for Tier 5 ships to.......... $40, pretty much what we pay for with 3-pack ships.
And we are to do this for EVERY SHIP WE OWN!? And for ships that are subpar to Tier 6 ships? THIS IS NOW CONFIRMED - A BAD DEAL!
First of all, your order is wrong there. If you did it in the order you suggested, you have to pay an extra upgrade cost. You'd want to go from C-Store to Fleet to Upgrade.
Secondly, if you're flying a fleet ship, then you paid more than $20 for the ship. Even if you scored your ship during a sale, you probably paid in between $20-$25 dollars MINIMUM. Max price would be $30, by my estimates (take the Tempest escort as that example... $25 ship + $5 module).
Thirdly, it is beyond silly to me that you're shocked to the point of upset over the prospect of paying the cost of 1-2 fleet modules to upgrade. This is exactly what I expected. The pay-once feature is quite welcomed... and, more importantly, these upgrade fees could be a LOT WORSE.
How would you like to pay for EVERY SHIP UPGRADE on EVERY TOON, regardless if you paid it before?
How would you like to pay for specialty ships to be upgraded?
How would you like to grind for "upgrade marks" ON TOP of paying ZEN?
How would you like to NOT GET AN UPGRADE AT ALL?
Any of these could have happened. But they didn't. Not thrilled with having to pay... but, this ain't THAT bad. And my investment in Lobi/Lock Box ships is gonna pay off a little.
Seriously though, this is about what I figured it'd be. What morbidly amuses me though is that lockbox ships, even upgraded, will still be inferior to an out-of-the-box T6 ship. Oops! You paid how much for that Voth/Undine/Xindi ship again?
Whats really galling is how greedy and money hungry Cryptic has become.
Even for subscribers, Delta Rising for many people has become infinitely more expensive, than it is to BUY an expansion pack for other MMORPG's like WoW and Lotro.
- yes you payed real money for ships but the game is F2P
- you can upgrade your ships but a real T6 ship is supposed to be more potent
- you get basicly "free expansions" while you have to pay for them in other games ... so you saved some money now you can use some to get you a nice T6 ship. As long the prices for them is like 50% higher then T5 ships i dont care.
So the Veteran Destroyers get FREE upgrades, but currently, I need a Ship Module to get the Fleet Varient? What kind of logic is that!?
The same logic that says the Dyson Destroyers get a free upgrade but the 10,000 Zen Dyson bundle will cost you an additional 4500-9000 Zen to upgrade the lot.
So two points
1: did anyone notice that your obliesk carriers are not able to be upgraded ? And
2: I really hope that you can re-skin the new ships ie make it look like a galaxy or sovy ( depends on the class of the ship), cause no offense cryptic, but your star ships are uglier then sin .
Truth be told, I'd rather have a cheaper (let's say, 100-200 Zen) per-ship/per-character upgrade to T5-U, than a more expensive account-wide T5-U upgrade.
So two points
1: did anyone notice that your obliesk carriers are not able to be upgraded ? And
2: I really hope that you can re-skin the new ships ie make it look like a galaxy or sovy ( depends on the class of the ship), cause no offense cryptic, but your star ships are uglier then sin .
I have the Lobi Obelisk Carrier, so it will be a little less crappy when upgraded.......
- yes you payed real money for ships but the game is F2P
- you can upgrade your ships but a real T6 ship is supposed to be more potent
- you get basicly "free expansions" while you have to pay for them in other games ... so you saved some money now you can use some to get you a nice T6 ship. As long the prices for them is like 50% higher then T5 ships i dont care.
and if you don't want to upgrade to a T5U or T6 ship you don't have to since the level 50-60 content is still playable with current ships.
Your pain runs deep.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Ship choice has been lockbox lockbox lockbox or lockbox for a good while.
People can PVP in any 10-console ship. Top-tier players have needed the best gear to keep their skill advantage :rolleyes: but it wasnt PVP that required it, it was the players
Now we reset to 11-console ship with the OP BOFF abilities and ship abilities
Woooow, X2 sure is going to be expensive. I know I shelled out for LoR, but seems like its going to be on a whole different level with this, between upgrading all of our T5 ships, upgrading all of our gear, T6 ships and god knows what else.
I disagree sir. MK XI is considered inferior just as much as 9-console ships. 10 consoles is 'the most endiest game that you can get' so one expects that a new class of T6 ships that will become the new 'most endiest game that you can get' will have more than that just as how MK XIV weapons will become 'the most endiest game that you can get.' I am actually disappointed in the T6 ships now; I was expecting 11 consoles to be standard on them, not something we'll inevitably get later as a T6.5. I'll stick with my 11-console Galor.
But that's just what I said it was...what you consider to be "standard" as opposed to what actually is "standard"...
9 console boats are the standard boats.
10 console boats are upgraded/better boats.
No doubt I thought the T6 boats were going to be 11 console boats as well, seeing them as upgrades over T5 10 console boats.
All they've done though, is continue what we've got at T5. Whether or not there will also be T6+ boats, T6 boats with 11 consoles - we'll have to see. It's just a case of them having left room for further power increase, no? Maybe down the road there will be Fleet T6 boats, etc, etc, etc.
But it doesn't change the use of "standard" as they're using it. Standard...basic...the standard T5 boat is a 9 console boat. The standard T6 boat will be +1 or 10 console. Just because folks consider a T5 10 console boat to be the standard boat somebody will fly, doesn't change that the T5 9 console boat is the standard boat and the T5 10 console is the upgraded boat.
Again, don't get me wrong...I figured that the T6 boats were going to be 11 console boats. Like I said in that post you quoted, I thought that's why there were two price points...cause it would cost more to upgrade the T5 9 console boat than it would cost to upgrade the T5 10 console boat...didn't think they were going to go with T6 10 console boats like they did.
Have to say I have only just read the Blog and woah the number of pages of replies already.
My first reaction to the Blog was 'oh looks like my ships will not be upgraded then' but the FAQ bit at the bottom which said "You only need to pay the upgrade fee once." was very welcome news. The fact that the event ships will also be free upgrades is a good compromise I think as that will allow those with smaller budgets to partially keep up with the big spenders and should be applauded. I can only hope the equipment availability will be so forward thinking.
That said I do still have fears on the costs and hope it is more towards the $5 range than the $10 to make it easier for those of us who own stables of store ships.
All in all I have to say thank you for at least trying to be a little fair to us.
1 - This "intermediary" Tier 5U step is a useless one as far as players are concerned. People are less likely to use it than just buy a T6 ship. That being said, the ships we have been playing for years now we either just keep as is or pay more money for the powers and skin. It is better to just go from T5 to T6, no intermediary step. I like my ships and I do not like Cryptics recent designs. I would rather my space "avatar" be the ship I want and be a little gimped rather than something I do not want to see everyday.
2 - This is a great way to squeeze more money out of old sales by tacking this on. For $5 dollars more... This is not a tactic I consider a good business practice. Yeah you are making money, but it is a sure way to disenfranchise your customer base. Imagine all the T5 ships many people have. Does your marketing tell you a guy with 20 ships is going to pay $100 just to upgrade them to this intermediary step? So now think of how many people will just do this upgrade to zero, one, maybe two ships and maybe on one or two of their characters. Who in marketing came up with this idea?
3 - What about all the c-store ships and bundles I have already spent money on? If people cannot upgrade them to the new max level, then why would they even buy them? You would be hurting your own sales of those ships.
4 - You guys should have spent your time removing the tier system for ships altogether and investing it in a ship leveling system. Seems you have partially done that. I don't know maybe involve the fleet's starbase shipyard, DOFF system and new crafting system too? This "new" system seems a bit tacked on rather than well thought out in terms of utilizing additional mechanics in the game.
Comments
Well they will still get the same upgrade from fleet status. So the Fleet Avenger U vs the Avenger U will still be stronger but still won't be as good as a tier 6 ship.
Anybody who thought otherwise you were dreaming. ofcourse they had to make tier 6 ships stronger, or what's the point?
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
I think that the upgrades for Fleet and T5 C-Store ships will end up just getting you a Tier 5 Upgraded version, no difference between upgrading the C-Store or Fleet version. I'm not sure (or anyone else really). Basically, Fleet and Non-Fleet C-Store ships will lead to the same T5-U ship, and that T5-U version will be account wide available.
It creates a confusing jumble of a mess, carrying on the proud tradition that is T5. Meh...
T5 9 console
T5 10 console
T5-U 10 console
T5-U 11 console
T6 10 console
Somewhere down the road...T6 11 console, eh? Fleet T6 in 2 years or less, eh?
Heck, they said some T6 won't have the Specialist BOFF action going for them...so T6 11 console sooner than later?
Or won't that happen, because they want to keep the T5 10 console upgraded T5-U11's competitive?
Funny how they generate more questions with each answer they give...meh/heh.
I'm saving Zen right now, but I don't know If I'm going to buy a T6 ship. I'm just waiting to know how they will look.
In every place,
The deeds of men remain the same..."
Do we even know there's going to be a tomorrow? Cryptic can't be trusted. They've probably already planned to throw a drop of Red Matter into Earth's core.
Thanks for simplifying things... so basically if I understand correctly... we buy a module that rewards these items to your ship on top of what your ship currently has:
-Bonus scaling HP
-Starship Mastery passive abilities
-+1 Console Slot
So these lobi and fleet ships will actually have more console slots than a t6 ship which is a big difference. I think this could work out even better than one extra boff ability especially since we don't know what said boff ability is. I knew you all would find some way to balance things out.
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
They also said you would be able to play the content in out current ships.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Come on - you just know that all Lockbox ships that get into the game post-DR will be T6 Lockbox ships.
First of all, your order is wrong there.
Secondly, if you're flying a fleet ship, then you paid more than $20 for the ship. Even if you scored your ship during a sale, you probably paid in between $20-$25 dollars MINIMUM. Max price would be $30, by my estimates (take the Tempest escort as that example... $25 ship + $5 module).
Thirdly, it is beyond silly to me that you're shocked to the point of upset over the prospect of paying the cost of 1-2 fleet modules to upgrade. This is exactly what I expected. The pay-once feature is quite welcomed... and, more importantly, these upgrade fees could be a LOT WORSE.
How would you like to pay for EVERY SHIP UPGRADE on EVERY TOON, regardless if you paid it before?
How would you like to pay for specialty ships to be upgraded?
How would you like to grind for "upgrade marks" ON TOP of paying ZEN?
How would you like to NOT GET AN UPGRADE AT ALL?
Any of these could have happened. But they didn't. Not thrilled with having to pay... but, this ain't THAT bad. And my investment in Lobi/Lock Box ships is gonna pay off a little.
Seriously though, this is about what I figured it'd be. What morbidly amuses me though is that lockbox ships, even upgraded, will still be inferior to an out-of-the-box T6 ship. Oops! You paid how much for that Voth/Undine/Xindi ship again?
Even for subscribers, Delta Rising for many people has become infinitely more expensive, than it is to BUY an expansion pack for other MMORPG's like WoW and Lotro.
- yes you payed real money for ships but the game is F2P
- you can upgrade your ships but a real T6 ship is supposed to be more potent
- you get basicly "free expansions" while you have to pay for them in other games ... so you saved some money now you can use some to get you a nice T6 ship. As long the prices for them is like 50% higher then T5 ships i dont care.
The same logic that says the Dyson Destroyers get a free upgrade but the 10,000 Zen Dyson bundle will cost you an additional 4500-9000 Zen to upgrade the lot.
Obvious troll attempt is obvious.
My main ship is my gorn Varanus, now I have to pay to upgrade it half a tier.
My galor, which I paid real money to get, about 50 bucks of real money, is now essentially obselete in the face of these new ships.
However in two statements the bug has been explicitly mentioned to be upgradeable to T6.
http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=18488241&postcount=39
http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/6007323-the-jem%27hadar-attack-ship-returns%21
So what's it gonna be Cryptic? Thanks for clarifying this.
1: did anyone notice that your obliesk carriers are not able to be upgraded ? And
2: I really hope that you can re-skin the new ships ie make it look like a galaxy or sovy ( depends on the class of the ship), cause no offense cryptic, but your star ships are uglier then sin .
I have the Lobi Obelisk Carrier, so it will be a little less crappy when upgraded.......
and if you don't want to upgrade to a T5U or T6 ship you don't have to since the level 50-60 content is still playable with current ships.
Let us explore it... together. Each man hides a secret pain. It must be exposed and reckoned with. It must be dragged from the darkness and forced into the light. Share your pain. Share your pain with me... and gain strength from the sharing.
Now we reset to 11-console ship with the OP BOFF abilities and ship abilities
But that's just what I said it was...what you consider to be "standard" as opposed to what actually is "standard"...
9 console boats are the standard boats.
10 console boats are upgraded/better boats.
No doubt I thought the T6 boats were going to be 11 console boats as well, seeing them as upgrades over T5 10 console boats.
All they've done though, is continue what we've got at T5. Whether or not there will also be T6+ boats, T6 boats with 11 consoles - we'll have to see. It's just a case of them having left room for further power increase, no? Maybe down the road there will be Fleet T6 boats, etc, etc, etc.
But it doesn't change the use of "standard" as they're using it. Standard...basic...the standard T5 boat is a 9 console boat. The standard T6 boat will be +1 or 10 console. Just because folks consider a T5 10 console boat to be the standard boat somebody will fly, doesn't change that the T5 9 console boat is the standard boat and the T5 10 console is the upgraded boat.
Again, don't get me wrong...I figured that the T6 boats were going to be 11 console boats. Like I said in that post you quoted, I thought that's why there were two price points...cause it would cost more to upgrade the T5 9 console boat than it would cost to upgrade the T5 10 console boat...didn't think they were going to go with T6 10 console boats like they did.
My first reaction to the Blog was 'oh looks like my ships will not be upgraded then' but the FAQ bit at the bottom which said "You only need to pay the upgrade fee once." was very welcome news. The fact that the event ships will also be free upgrades is a good compromise I think as that will allow those with smaller budgets to partially keep up with the big spenders and should be applauded. I can only hope the equipment availability will be so forward thinking.
That said I do still have fears on the costs and hope it is more towards the $5 range than the $10 to make it easier for those of us who own stables of store ships.
All in all I have to say thank you for at least trying to be a little fair to us.
Still waiting to be able to use forum titles
1 - This "intermediary" Tier 5U step is a useless one as far as players are concerned. People are less likely to use it than just buy a T6 ship. That being said, the ships we have been playing for years now we either just keep as is or pay more money for the powers and skin. It is better to just go from T5 to T6, no intermediary step. I like my ships and I do not like Cryptics recent designs. I would rather my space "avatar" be the ship I want and be a little gimped rather than something I do not want to see everyday.
2 - This is a great way to squeeze more money out of old sales by tacking this on. For $5 dollars more... This is not a tactic I consider a good business practice. Yeah you are making money, but it is a sure way to disenfranchise your customer base. Imagine all the T5 ships many people have. Does your marketing tell you a guy with 20 ships is going to pay $100 just to upgrade them to this intermediary step? So now think of how many people will just do this upgrade to zero, one, maybe two ships and maybe on one or two of their characters. Who in marketing came up with this idea?
3 - What about all the c-store ships and bundles I have already spent money on? If people cannot upgrade them to the new max level, then why would they even buy them? You would be hurting your own sales of those ships.
4 - You guys should have spent your time removing the tier system for ships altogether and investing it in a ship leveling system. Seems you have partially done that. I don't know maybe involve the fleet's starbase shipyard, DOFF system and new crafting system too? This "new" system seems a bit tacked on rather than well thought out in terms of utilizing additional mechanics in the game.