Why is everyone talking about his remains being exposed to space?
They didn't just toss his corpse out the airlock
He would have been sent off in a torpedo casing just like every other Starfleet space funeral we've seen
I suspect that the Kobali have found and re-animated him
partly to save on va costs if they have Mr Wang voicing two Harrys rather than one Harry and someone else to voice the main Kobali contact
+ think of the philosophical ramifications if Harry remembers who he is too
does the Re-birth process not wipe human memories?
are you still the same person?
do you have the same soul?
what makes you you?
He was ejected from voyager with momentum so god knows where his body went in 32 years. For all you know he could of been sucked into the engine of a passerby ship and vaporized, or fallen into a sun.
God knows where that body would be in the vastness of space. I mean good intentions but did you all REALLY think this through here?
Indeed, that's why Worf and Kor ultimately got rid of the Sword of Kahless by beaming it into space (and then somehow gave it a nudge to start it spinning away from the beam-out site in the last shot of that DS9 episode) - to make it next to impossible for anyone else to find.
He got blown out of a hull breach. No torpedo casing for him, unless they went back for the body so they could throw it out again properly.
which brings us back to my point - therealfluffy your fantasy mission is to retrieve harry kims body from space so he can be returned to earth where he will have a proper star fleet funeral where his body is put in a pod and shot into space.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
As entertaining as this thread has been to read, my original post was actually sincere and a reference to our cultural habit to retrieve the remains of fallen soldiers if/when possible. Even today, the remains of soldiers who died during the two world wars, are brought back home as the geopolitical situation changes to allow for it. It's nothing strange or weird about it, just a natural human behavior and it's not even limited to soldiers. Just look at the massive operation to recover the victims of the downed MH17 aircraft. Humans just have a need to bring the remains of their loved ones back home. There are several episodes in Star Trek lore that shows this and where the most memorable occasion imho was in the DS9 episode "The Sound of Her Voice".
As to the difficulties of finding Harry Kim's body, consider the following: The Voyager 1 probe has been traveling for 36 years at a speed of 17 km/s and is "only" 116 AU distant, on the border between our solar system and interstellar space. Even our limited technology can still detect the weak radiation it emits. I'm pretty confident that the speed of Harry Kim's body, caused by the hull decompression, are several magnitudes lower than that (or we would've said goodbye to rocket propellants a long time ago and just relied on compressed air).
As have been mentioned in this thread, the Kobali for sure has the technology to detect bodies in space and it stands to reason that they aren't just lucky to stumble upon them in the vastness of space. And as I mentioned earlier, even USS Voyager could detect the two spaced Kazons from far away so I don't see any problems to find Harry Kim in the limited volume of space where he can possibly be.
Has anyone here stopped for even a second to consider he was almost certainly wearing a combadge when this happened? Sure it's been out there a long time so the power cells may be dead, but it's still the sort of thing that narrows stuff down just for composition and whatnot. It is likely to be revealed it contains special handwavium for just this sort of situation!
Also, Starfleet and the Federation at large tend to go a long way to honor cultural customs. Whereas Spock's situation might have been fine for a torpedo casing launch, Harry's wishes might not be the same... and this Harry's wishes would be the ones recorded on the Voyager that made it back.
Has anyone here stopped for even a second to consider he was almost certainly wearing a combadge when this happened? Sure it's been out there a long time so the power cells may be dead, but it's still the sort of thing that narrows stuff down just for composition and whatnot. It is likely to be revealed it contains special handwavium for just this sort of situation!
Also, Starfleet and the Federation at large tend to go a long way to honor cultural customs. Whereas Spock's situation might have been fine for a torpedo casing launch, Harry's wishes might not be the same... and this Harry's wishes would be the ones recorded on the Voyager that made it back.
its not just his combadge, theres the wreckage of an starfleet ship, and all of its associated identifiable alloys... and voyager knows where he started off
I pointed out the spacesuit as evidence that heat does indeed transfer in space. Heavily insulating a spacesuit wouldn't be required if heat couldn't be transferred.
Heat does no transfer in space, due to the lack of a medium. Heat is radiation when in space.
When it comes to heat in space suits, yes it's insulated. But the danger of heat isn't from the sun, but from the astronauts themselves as they burn calories during EVA. That's why astronauts have cooling suits within the space suits, to regulate that temperature and the excess HEAT is RADIATED out of the suit.
No, freezing does not require moisture in the air to condense and turn into ice. It requires the average kinetic energy of the molecules to be low enough that they can form stable intermolecular bonds. Neither an atmosphere nor water is necessary. Remember that rocks are just as frozen as ice is, they just freeze at much higher temperatures.
The dissolved air in the blood will come out of solution, and the molecules with higher kinetic energy will also evaporate, but as the reason for that evaporation isn't due to energy input it will leave behind the lower energy molecules that will form the bonds necessary to form a solid.
The majority of the water will freeze incidentally (~80-90%), so your tongue will indeed freeze due to the vapourisation of the water.
The temperature change in space isn't immediate because of a lack of a medium; temperature change is just as immediate in a medium as well. You step out of an air conditioned house into the sweltering heat, energy will immediately begin transferring to your cold body. You're temperature will change faster because conduction and convection can also occur, but it's no more or less 'immediate.'
If you mean to imply that the temperature will reach its maximum/minimum 'immediately' then that's just patently wrong. While stepping into sunlight from behind a rock on the moon, you'd immediately begin to heat up, but you won't instantly reach the maximum temperature; it will take time to reach the equilibrium point where the energy you're radiating is equal to the energy being absorbed. When you step back into the shade, then the amount of energy you're radiating will be greater than the energy you're receiving, and you'll slowly cool down to the new equilibrium point. Without being able to use evaporation, it'll take longer to cool down than when you're on Earth.
Without a spacesuit and away from sunlight, you'll cool down quickly initially because of the evaporation, but it will still take time.
Yes, that's because astronauts tend to work around Earth's orbit. In deep space, it only gets colder. You're not going to freeze any less out there. But that's besides the point, because I mentioned it to point out that yes indeed, heat is transferred in space (this goes for the next one too).
They are no exception, areas in sunlight are warmer than areas in shadow. The sunlit side of Io for example, can be around -143°C, while the shadow side is about -183°C.
So tired of trying to explain to people who doesn't know diddly about space, nor how Space Suits actually works.
Has anyone here stopped for even a second to consider he was almost certainly wearing a combadge when this happened? Sure it's been out there a long time so the power cells may be dead, but it's still the sort of thing that narrows stuff down just for composition and whatnot. It is likely to be revealed it contains special handwavium for just this sort of situation!
Also, Starfleet and the Federation at large tend to go a long way to honor cultural customs. Whereas Spock's situation might have been fine for a torpedo casing launch, Harry's wishes might not be the same... and this Harry's wishes would be the ones recorded on the Voyager that made it back.
It's about NOT finding him, it's the fact that his corpse has been drifting for THIRTY TWO YEARS IN THE OPEN VACUUM OF SPACE. It's not gonna be a pretty sight and that's assuming it didn't fall into a star or crash into a planet and burn up in the atmosphere.
Either way, that Harry is dead and gone and we most likely will never see it again.
"A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP"
Seriously? 8 Pages about such an insignificant event that occured during the series?
My god you people are really bored.
Before we move to the Delta Quadrant why not recover the bodies of all thoose fellow officers that died in the Alpha Quadrant first...
All thoose people that got blown out to space when the Xindi attacked the NX-01, or what about the poor helmsman that got blown out to space in the Bassen-Rift when the Enterprise-E fought the Scimitar... :rolleyes:
This is Star Trek Online, not Space Funeral Association
But what do we do with the frozen Harry Kim? Maybe another doff mission for a burial if Feds, selling him to the Kobali if Rom or feeding him to your targ (after being defrosted) as a Klingon.
For all 3 it should be turned in for a cut scene of the surviving Voyager crewmembers explaining this one.
Honestly, instead of datachips for Delta Rising we should get a little item that you trade in for a cut scene of a Voyager crew member recounting one of their missions to your baffled, bemused and/or horrified avatar.
But hey for thoose that love to retrieve dead corpses, there is a game that allows you to do that.
Go play EVE Online. A huge numbers of frozen corpses is awaiting you in Low and Nullsec there.
I think the OP is right that a mission to retrieve a lost body of a Starfleet officer would be suitable for the setting. However, I'm not on board that Harry Kim's is the right one (unless you're in this to get Harry Kim explaining this episode, which could be entertaining if done correctly.) It was a long time ago, its too much of a longshot to find it (that commbadge probably isn't working anymore) and they actually did get a Harry Kim home to his family.
Given that the player characters have lost more than enough of their own people, it would be interesting to set up an episode to retrieve a body after a failed away team mission from your own crew... and end up tracking down the Kobali.
Doesn't matter - that Voyager blew itself up, and thus, we don't have to care about it.
If only the same could be said about Neelix...
My Old Blog about things that could and should have been added when I wrote it. Not sure what I want to do with it now. I'll just keep it available now that most of it is outdated.
You literally sent my own link showing liquid nitrogen freezing by lowering the pressure, which includes an explanation about why, but apparently I'm the one that doesn't know how fluids in a vacuum works?
You literally sent my own link showing liquid nitrogen freezing by lowering the pressure, which includes an explanation about why, but apparently I'm the one that doesn't know how fluids in a vacuum works?
I'll just presume you're trolling.
Funny you accuse me of trolling, when you clearly don't know anything about space. There is no fluids in space, because it vaporizes.
But what do we do with the frozen Harry Kim? Maybe another doff mission for a burial if Feds, selling him to the Kobali if Rom or feeding him to your targ (after being defrosted) as a Klingon.
I only just watched Voyager on Netflix 2-3 years ago. I skipped season 1. Looks like I need to go back and watch what I missed since I started on Season 2 or 3 after watching the pilot.
There IS someone else who needs to get home, and a Foundry mission idea Im tinkering with will bring them home at the end of it.
STO: @AGNT009 Since Dec 2010
Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader
of course he could have become trapped in the gravitational pull of a nearby sun at some point and roasted into oblivion or that of a planet with enough atmosphere to burn him to a cinder on entry or a larger planet or gas giant where he would have been instantly crushed into a diamond by the immense gravity or fell into a black hole or worm hole or who knows what else.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
I never felt comfortable knowing that the original Harry Kim was left dead, frozen and floating in space in the Delta Quadrant. He was the one person who most eagerly wanted to get back to Earth but he never got to see his homeworld again. Now that X2 will give us an Iconian gateway to the Delta Quadrant, how about we go back there in a mission and retrieve his body and bring it back to Earth for a proper funeral?
Comments
They didn't just toss his corpse out the airlock
He would have been sent off in a torpedo casing just like every other Starfleet space funeral we've seen
I suspect that the Kobali have found and re-animated him
partly to save on va costs if they have Mr Wang voicing two Harrys rather than one Harry and someone else to voice the main Kobali contact
+ think of the philosophical ramifications if Harry remembers who he is too
does the Re-birth process not wipe human memories?
are you still the same person?
do you have the same soul?
what makes you you?
for spoiler text use #1b1c1f
This is where I stopped reading... He was blown out through a hullbreach... same result.
Try to keep up
He got blown out of a hull breach. No torpedo casing for him, unless they went back for the body so they could throw it out again properly.
Indeed, that's why Worf and Kor ultimately got rid of the Sword of Kahless by beaming it into space (and then somehow gave it a nudge to start it spinning away from the beam-out site in the last shot of that DS9 episode) - to make it next to impossible for anyone else to find.
My Foundry missions | My STO Wiki page | My Twitter home page
which brings us back to my point - therealfluffy your fantasy mission is to retrieve harry kims body from space so he can be returned to earth where he will have a proper star fleet funeral where his body is put in a pod and shot into space.
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
As to the difficulties of finding Harry Kim's body, consider the following: The Voyager 1 probe has been traveling for 36 years at a speed of 17 km/s and is "only" 116 AU distant, on the border between our solar system and interstellar space. Even our limited technology can still detect the weak radiation it emits. I'm pretty confident that the speed of Harry Kim's body, caused by the hull decompression, are several magnitudes lower than that (or we would've said goodbye to rocket propellants a long time ago and just relied on compressed air).
As have been mentioned in this thread, the Kobali for sure has the technology to detect bodies in space and it stands to reason that they aren't just lucky to stumble upon them in the vastness of space. And as I mentioned earlier, even USS Voyager could detect the two spaced Kazons from far away so I don't see any problems to find Harry Kim in the limited volume of space where he can possibly be.
Also, Starfleet and the Federation at large tend to go a long way to honor cultural customs. Whereas Spock's situation might have been fine for a torpedo casing launch, Harry's wishes might not be the same... and this Harry's wishes would be the ones recorded on the Voyager that made it back.
its not just his combadge, theres the wreckage of an starfleet ship, and all of its associated identifiable alloys... and voyager knows where he started off
for spoiler text use #1b1c1f
So tired of trying to explain to people who doesn't know diddly about space, nor how Space Suits actually works.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pm6df_SExVw
It's about NOT finding him, it's the fact that his corpse has been drifting for THIRTY TWO YEARS IN THE OPEN VACUUM OF SPACE. It's not gonna be a pretty sight and that's assuming it didn't fall into a star or crash into a planet and burn up in the atmosphere.
Either way, that Harry is dead and gone and we most likely will never see it again.
-Leonard Nimoy, RIP
My god you people are really bored.
Before we move to the Delta Quadrant why not recover the bodies of all thoose fellow officers that died in the Alpha Quadrant first...
All thoose people that got blown out to space when the Xindi attacked the NX-01, or what about the poor helmsman that got blown out to space in the Bassen-Rift when the Enterprise-E fought the Scimitar... :rolleyes:
This is Star Trek Online, not Space Funeral Association
Star Trek Online Intro HD [3rd Fleet Anniversary]
Join Date: Jul 2009
For all 3 it should be turned in for a cut scene of the surviving Voyager crewmembers explaining this one.
Honestly, instead of datachips for Delta Rising we should get a little item that you trade in for a cut scene of a Voyager crew member recounting one of their missions to your baffled, bemused and/or horrified avatar.
But how is this more horrifying than meeting the actual alive Kim ?
I too lend my support to finally kill Harry Kim in a gruesome, agonizing way....oh, wait...that's not what this thread is about.....
If you don't have new content, you make your own...
But hey for thoose that love to retrieve dead corpses, there is a game that allows you to do that.
Go play EVE Online. A huge numbers of frozen corpses is awaiting you in Low and Nullsec there.
Star Trek Online Intro HD [3rd Fleet Anniversary]
Join Date: Jul 2009
Yea... My corpse is one of them...
I think the OP is right that a mission to retrieve a lost body of a Starfleet officer would be suitable for the setting. However, I'm not on board that Harry Kim's is the right one (unless you're in this to get Harry Kim explaining this episode, which could be entertaining if done correctly.) It was a long time ago, its too much of a longshot to find it (that commbadge probably isn't working anymore) and they actually did get a Harry Kim home to his family.
Given that the player characters have lost more than enough of their own people, it would be interesting to set up an episode to retrieve a body after a failed away team mission from your own crew... and end up tracking down the Kobali.
If only the same could be said about Neelix...
We all know Federation power cells are designed to hold a charge indefinitely... until the plot needs it empty.
You literally sent my own link showing liquid nitrogen freezing by lowering the pressure, which includes an explanation about why, but apparently I'm the one that doesn't know how fluids in a vacuum works?
I'll just presume you're trolling.
Funny you accuse me of trolling, when you clearly don't know anything about space. There is no fluids in space, because it vaporizes.
He would make an awesome floor trophy
Same thing as Cannibal Tribbles, except it speaks to you in an eager ensign voice.
I`ll just put him over there, next to Captain Solo.:D
With a sticker that says, "We Brake For Nobody"
There IS someone else who needs to get home, and a Foundry mission idea Im tinkering with will bring them home at the end of it.
Capt. Will Conquest of the U.S.S. Crusader
When I think about everything we've been through together,
maybe it's not the destination that matters, maybe it's the journey,
and if that journey takes a little longer,
so we can do something we all believe in,
I can't think of any place I'd rather be or any people I'd rather be with.
This is an interesting idea. I'll bring it up.