Picard was a Lieutenant Commander when he took command of the Stargazer, and was promptly promoted to Captain, which he remained for the decades (!) that followed. Archer was Captain for his entire series, as was Janeway (who lost her ship when she was promoted to Rear Admiral). Kirk and Sisko were Commanders and during their series were promoted to Captain.
The IP has dialogue lines that scream into everybody's face "DON'T LET THEM PROMOTE YOU".
Which is hilarious because you don't actually have a choice in the matter in the real world. You're promoted, move to your next assignment. Officers automatically come up for promotion every X many years, depending on your branch. You either get promoted or you don't. If they pass on you three consecutive times, you're jettisoned. Thanks for your service, you're out.
The idea that Captain Awesomeface gets to refuse promotion is a conceit to it being a TV show with a cast. If you want to play it straight, Picard and Friends get broken up after 5 years because people are promoted or reassigned. Picard retires or flies a desk somewhere.
Otherwise what you have is the Age of Sail situation, in which there's a waiting list to get a ship because the most senior guys are getting fat aboard their frigates and there's no way to break up the stagnation and get younger officers up the ladder. Which is exactly what Commander Shelby was complaining about - she wants a promotion, lazy fatties like Riker are taking two seats on the plane.
Quinn is in charge of StarFleet operations and as such he outranks us.
Small point of order: Quinn is in charge of ESD and the surrounding sectors, nothing more.
Kestrel said that Quinn's primary command area is ESD and I guess the surrounding territory. Not sure how wide that area actually is or what a Fleet Admiral's typical level of responsibility is in 25th century Starfleet.
We have no idea who the highest-ranking Starfleet official is.
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
Why wasn't Rank capped at Captain? (except Guild Leaders who could unlock Admiral titles). This 'everyone is a Fleet Admiral' is stupidly ridiculous!
Oh, I get your argument.
Since you hold a high rank in a fleet, possibly a fleet owner, you feel as though the new rank should be exclusive.
Here is the conundrum... I know a mess of people who are not fleet owners, and they have out spent those who do own fleets.
In order for a fleet owner to build a base, spire, mine, and embassy, they have to rely upon the resources and energy of other players. Unless a player is obsessive and rich, I do not see how one individual can complete all of the projects. Fleet owners may have made a significant contribution; however, the other players around the individual did the heavy lifting.
Also, the majority of the players fleet-hop. Even though an individual may not stay in one place, their combined contribution to several fleets is astronomical. Individual leader-boards show a false positive, for they do not include all of a player's contributions.
Should the rank fleet admiral be exclusive? No.
Why? When you tally up the combined contributions made by fleet members, the fleet owner's contributions suddenly become insignificant.
Fleet bases, spires, mines, and embassies are built by a collective of individuals.
Its time for everyone to be rewarded for their efforts.
That makes sense. I would think that any officer running a major starbase would be attached to Starfleet Command:
Because of the time delays involved in many subspace communications, Starfleet Command also includes a network of administrative and support outposts known as starbases throughout the Federation. Starfleet's starships operate out of these starbases under the supervision of various admirals, the senior officers of the fleet.
On that note, in my opinion, Kurland should be an Admiral, as should Naomi Wildman if she's supposed to be in charge of K-7, the front line outpost during the war with the Klingons.
SB39 is already under the command of Admiral T'Nae, so that tracks.
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
Don't be dense. The entire story arc of the game is written around your character, just like almost every other MMO in existence. Who really gives 2 quatloos what rank everyone else is when running around social areas?
The story is simply a filler to get you to the first day of the rest of your life, end level. Yes your character went through missions to make him/her what she is at end game.
But guess what when the story is over, where are you? In the verse with everybody else.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Almost all of my characters are Captain rank or below, ICly. I have a couple of level 50s who are Lieutenants in-character. I have one who has no rank at all other than "chief executive officer."
The hard-coded rank names are, to me, not an obstacle for you RPing however you want.
The artist formerly known as PlanetofHats.
Actual join date: Open beta, 2009ish.
I don't disagree at all that it would be preferable for us to choose the rank we wished to be addressed by NPCs as. This does get a bit tricky if the rank is spoken in voice overs.
We can't really comment on how difficult or easy it is to do without knowing how the code is done.
Simple, just do the voice over as Captain - because whether a Lvl 1 Cadet turning lieutenant or Lvl 60 Fleet Admrial, you are always a Captain of a ship, and therefore it is always appropriate no matter what rank.
Nice and easy.
Also on a more generic note about promotions, Starfleet is an organisation spread across about 2-3% of a galaxy, with hundreds of races as part of it, some of whom live for a decade or two, some for one century, others maybe 2 or 3, others still are far longer. While a promotion every few years works for us due to our 20-30 years of service/70-80 lifespan, for Starfleet it would not work - so they do it based on other factors apart from age and service duration. Like quality, or promotions to level of least incompetence. (Janeway for example)
Case in point, albeit non-canon - my Altmeri Tac. from her arrival in the ST universe's 24th Century after a Mage's Guild/transporter accident, she could expect to outlive the Federation itself even before taking into account the advanced medical technology available to her now. For her, she could stay at her VA (or Captain in head-canon) until the 30th Century or beyond and that would still be much faster than normal progression in her homeland's Navy.
This at no point considers the fact that being an Admiral in Star Trek is almost as bad a gig as being a Redshirt, and is basically always presented as something to avoid.
This at no point considers the fact that being an Admiral in Star Trek is almost as bad a gig as being a Redshirt, and is basically always presented as something to avoid.
Which is obviously why the Starfleet of STO has re-aligned the position to include regularly captaining starships!
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
Or just ignore speaking the rank all together. They do this periodically with some of the text if you read along while listening to the voice overs.
All of the voiceovers that refer to military rank do that.
Any time a VO calls you "Captain," it's a generic reference to your status of the CO of the ship.
In the Royal Navy, Commanding Officer is the official title of the commander of any ship, unit or installation. However, they are referred to as "the Captain" no matter what their actual rank, or informally as "Skipper" or even "Boss".
In the United States Navy, commanding officer is the official title of the commander of a ship, but he or she is usually referred to as "the Captain" regardless of his or her actual rank, or informally referred to as "Skipper".
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
Again, that doesn't matter. As far as the in-game universe is concerned, you're the only person who accomplished all the great stuff that got you promoted. You're the one who stopped the Doomsday Device. You're the one who saved the Azuria. You're the one who found all the Presever artifacts. Story wise, nobody else did those things. Most importantly, the story never ends.
Keep telling yourself that. If it makes you feel better.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
...talking to players is like being a mall Santa. Everyone immediately wants to tell you all of the things they want, and you are absolutely powerless to deliver 99% of them.
Hey it's all based on a certain point of view. I look at the story as while a nice one, it's the path everybody treads. Once you hit end game where it opens up, that's where the road becomes less traveled.
1-49 or soon 1-59 is simply getting you ready for the first day of the rest of your life.
Again certain points of view. If the guy I am talking to wants to view it that way, fine. But he really needs to stop trying to enforce his view onto everybody else.
My point of view is PWE/Cryptic screwed the pooch on the rank system. Plain and simple.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
Why do people not get the point of that thread? The fact that that's the way it is is so obvious that people were complaining about that thread being a captain obvious thread, and yet there are still people who can't get it through their head that all player characters are projections of the "canonical" protagonist. There isn't any other way it can work. There's only one Tovan Khev; hence, only one Romulan player character. Same with Flores and K'gan. And even beyond that, we do things that can only be done once. That's the price of having narrative content that everyone can play; there's not really any other way to do it.
Now, who exactly the canonical protagonist is, we may never know, unless they go the KOTOR route and just define it eventually.
Yeah. STO's storyline features YOU the player as the new Kirk/Picard.
Just like TOR features your Sith as the new Darth Wrath for example.
The game's story is a single player story in a multiplayer game.
I think I heard the Federation has less than a dozen Fleet Admirals, but if its just ONE more person, that's not canon ****.
The BIG glaring issue on the other hand is how can you get from Ensign to captain in two years. Nevermind the admiral thing.
If the game's storyline followed....a Decade, not two years, this wouldn't be a problem.
And if you want to roleplay, it takes you FIVE clicks to change your title to Commander.
Let us wear Swimsuits on Foundry maps or bridges please! I would pay zen for that.
Yeah. STO's storyline features YOU the player as the new Kirk/Picard.
Just like TOR features your Sith as the new Darth Wrath for example.
The game's story is a single player story in a multiplayer game.
I think I heard the Federation has less than a dozen Fleet Admirals, but if its just ONE more person, that's not canon ****.
The BIG glaring issue on the other hand is how can you get from Ensign to captain in two years. Nevermind the admiral thing.
If the game's storyline followed....a Decade, not two years, this wouldn't be a problem.
There's this too. It's like a Cadet coming out of the Naval Academy and then being handed the keys to a Nimitz Class Aircraft Carrier after his first deployment.
Stuff like that just does not happen. And don't give the JJ Ambrhams movie TRIBBLE. In the TOS while Kirk was the youngest captain in Starfleet history, he still spent 10 years working his way up the ranks.
And Picard, yeah he got jumped up to captain from Lt Cmdr, but he spent a LOOOOONNNNNGGGG time as a Captain before even being considered for promotion to Rear Admiral.g
Sisko how long was he in service till he made Captain? Same with Janeway. Not like they stepped out of the Academy and suddenly were in command of starships.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
I do agree it's silly that Kirk went from cadet to Captain overnight.
Where did I say it wasn't? I just pointed out it's complete TRIBBLE he went to cadet to captain overnight and got the Enterprise.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
As I look back at the responses, I think the argument is all about 'control'. Since fleet owners and fleet members will suddenly become equals, some people are feeling rather intimidated.
In order for a fleet owner to build a base, spire, mine, and embassy, they have to rely upon the resources and energy of other players. Unless a player is obsessive and rich, I do not see how one individual can complete all of the projects. Fleet owners may have made a significant contribution; however, the other players around the individual did the heavy lifting.
When it comes to the subject of canon, I do not think it applies to "Star Trek: Online". Since 100% of the game's stories are 'not' canon, the argument to restore it becomes mute. Outside of the c-store uniforms and some starships, the majority of this game has zero roots in core canon.
Comments
Which is hilarious because you don't actually have a choice in the matter in the real world. You're promoted, move to your next assignment. Officers automatically come up for promotion every X many years, depending on your branch. You either get promoted or you don't. If they pass on you three consecutive times, you're jettisoned. Thanks for your service, you're out.
The idea that Captain Awesomeface gets to refuse promotion is a conceit to it being a TV show with a cast. If you want to play it straight, Picard and Friends get broken up after 5 years because people are promoted or reassigned. Picard retires or flies a desk somewhere.
Otherwise what you have is the Age of Sail situation, in which there's a waiting list to get a ship because the most senior guys are getting fat aboard their frigates and there's no way to break up the stagnation and get younger officers up the ladder. Which is exactly what Commander Shelby was complaining about - she wants a promotion, lazy fatties like Riker are taking two seats on the plane.
Small point of order: Quinn is in charge of ESD and the surrounding sectors, nothing more.
We have no idea who the highest-ranking Starfleet official is.
They don't all work this way.
Since you hold a high rank in a fleet, possibly a fleet owner, you feel as though the new rank should be exclusive.
Here is the conundrum... I know a mess of people who are not fleet owners, and they have out spent those who do own fleets.
In order for a fleet owner to build a base, spire, mine, and embassy, they have to rely upon the resources and energy of other players. Unless a player is obsessive and rich, I do not see how one individual can complete all of the projects. Fleet owners may have made a significant contribution; however, the other players around the individual did the heavy lifting.
Also, the majority of the players fleet-hop. Even though an individual may not stay in one place, their combined contribution to several fleets is astronomical. Individual leader-boards show a false positive, for they do not include all of a player's contributions.
Should the rank fleet admiral be exclusive? No.
Why? When you tally up the combined contributions made by fleet members, the fleet owner's contributions suddenly become insignificant.
Fleet bases, spires, mines, and embassies are built by a collective of individuals.
Its time for everyone to be rewarded for their efforts.
That makes sense. I would think that any officer running a major starbase would be attached to Starfleet Command:
On that note, in my opinion, Kurland should be an Admiral, as should Naomi Wildman if she's supposed to be in charge of K-7, the front line outpost during the war with the Klingons.
SB39 is already under the command of Admiral T'Nae, so that tracks.
The story is simply a filler to get you to the first day of the rest of your life, end level. Yes your character went through missions to make him/her what she is at end game.
But guess what when the story is over, where are you? In the verse with everybody else.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
The hard-coded rank names are, to me, not an obstacle for you RPing however you want.
Actual join date: Open beta, 2009ish.
This has been practically asked for since launch, and has not happened. So as much as I like the idea, it seems it's a dead one.
Simple, just do the voice over as Captain - because whether a Lvl 1 Cadet turning lieutenant or Lvl 60 Fleet Admrial, you are always a Captain of a ship, and therefore it is always appropriate no matter what rank.
Nice and easy.
Also on a more generic note about promotions, Starfleet is an organisation spread across about 2-3% of a galaxy, with hundreds of races as part of it, some of whom live for a decade or two, some for one century, others maybe 2 or 3, others still are far longer. While a promotion every few years works for us due to our 20-30 years of service/70-80 lifespan, for Starfleet it would not work - so they do it based on other factors apart from age and service duration. Like quality, or promotions to level of least incompetence. (Janeway for example)
Case in point, albeit non-canon - my Altmeri Tac. from her arrival in the ST universe's 24th Century after a Mage's Guild/transporter accident, she could expect to outlive the Federation itself even before taking into account the advanced medical technology available to her now. For her, she could stay at her VA (or Captain in head-canon) until the 30th Century or beyond and that would still be much faster than normal progression in her homeland's Navy.
This at no point considers the fact that being an Admiral in Star Trek is almost as bad a gig as being a Redshirt, and is basically always presented as something to avoid.
Which is obviously why the Starfleet of STO has re-aligned the position to include regularly captaining starships!
That's a symptom, not a cure.
All of the voiceovers that refer to military rank do that.
Any time a VO calls you "Captain," it's a generic reference to your status of the CO of the ship.
Keep telling yourself that. If it makes you feel better.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Which aspects of that statement were inaccurate?
Hey it's all based on a certain point of view. I look at the story as while a nice one, it's the path everybody treads. Once you hit end game where it opens up, that's where the road becomes less traveled.
1-49 or soon 1-59 is simply getting you ready for the first day of the rest of your life.
Again certain points of view. If the guy I am talking to wants to view it that way, fine. But he really needs to stop trying to enforce his view onto everybody else.
My point of view is PWE/Cryptic screwed the pooch on the rank system. Plain and simple.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Yeah. STO's storyline features YOU the player as the new Kirk/Picard.
Just like TOR features your Sith as the new Darth Wrath for example.
The game's story is a single player story in a multiplayer game.
I think I heard the Federation has less than a dozen Fleet Admirals, but if its just ONE more person, that's not canon ****.
The BIG glaring issue on the other hand is how can you get from Ensign to captain in two years. Nevermind the admiral thing.
If the game's storyline followed....a Decade, not two years, this wouldn't be a problem.
And if you want to roleplay, it takes you FIVE clicks to change your title to Commander.
There's this too. It's like a Cadet coming out of the Naval Academy and then being handed the keys to a Nimitz Class Aircraft Carrier after his first deployment.
Stuff like that just does not happen. And don't give the JJ Ambrhams movie TRIBBLE. In the TOS while Kirk was the youngest captain in Starfleet history, he still spent 10 years working his way up the ranks.
And Picard, yeah he got jumped up to captain from Lt Cmdr, but he spent a LOOOOONNNNNGGGG time as a Captain before even being considered for promotion to Rear Admiral.g
Sisko how long was he in service till he made Captain? Same with Janeway. Not like they stepped out of the Academy and suddenly were in command of starships.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
https://twitter.com/Cryptic_Kestrel/status/487333408574435328
Sounds to me that it's intentional for player character's to outrank him at some point.
Where did I say it wasn't? I just pointed out it's complete TRIBBLE he went to cadet to captain overnight and got the Enterprise.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Link: My Original Reply
When it comes to the subject of canon, I do not think it applies to "Star Trek: Online". Since 100% of the game's stories are 'not' canon, the argument to restore it becomes mute. Outside of the c-store uniforms and some starships, the majority of this game has zero roots in core canon.
Let people have fun.