And I do agree with the player getting a ship to command of 200 people out of the gates. We should of gotten a shuttle or fighter to command or like in the honorverse the equivalent of a LAC.
Then at Lt Cmdr gotten our first true ship. How I'd of written the story.
I would probably have done a vignette style tutorial, that eventually fast forwards you to your first command as Captain. And you stay Captain for the entire game, except perhaps in some special expansion where you can take the option to become Admiral, with new gameplay options. (This would be hard to do, you don't want advancement to close doors to certain content or gameplay.)
Basically, have some scenes at the tutorial, maybe some multiple choice dialogue aspects where you say how you handled certain things along your career (to model a "career choice" perhaps, or set some starting attributes, kind of like Jagged Alliance 2 had that personality quiz that determined certain starting aspects of your alter ego), and give your character some background that can later be used in more personal story arcs.
When I win in the lottery (I only have a slightly lower chance of winning the lottery than people that actually buy lottery tickets), I might make my Startrek Online II based on such ideas...
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
Well, the problem starts that you get a ship as Lieutenant. We've never seen that in Star Trek. But let'S be real - the whole year is much too packed with stuff. They should have advanced the timeline much, much sooner. We discover and settle New Romulus within a year! After much less than in a year in the Dyson Sphere we already build our own new ships based on technology found there.
They should have probably done what most Startrek shows did - treat each season as rougly a year of in-world time. Maybe just half a year.
I think i mentioned it in this thread or maybe another one.
I think that they should have had us starting off in our own ships as LCdrs at somewhere around level 1-5. The tutorial could have had you starting off as a Cadet and going to your first posting. And the tutorial would still be there teaching you the basics, but at the same time you are doing minor duties of a Ensign/Lt. Then they coulda done another fade to black and fast forward to the future where you are now a Lt and a sequence of events leads to you getting promoted to a LCdr. The revised KDF story does this pretty well...the only thing that i think would make it complete is if you killed the Captain after the challenge and you got promoted to a LCdr.
The lower level stuff where you are given your first ship as a Lt actually bothers me more then getting called a VA/LG or fleet admiral and still doing scut work. But at this point the game has so many inconsistencies i dont really care anymore. People are flying ships from the Undine, Jem'Hadar, Xindi-Aquatic Neurotic Narcine Dreadnaught Superholycrapthisisalongname Carrier. I could maybe understand if we had Fed and KDF ships with technology that was reverse engineered from those other ships. But i guess that doesnt really mesh well with their F2P model. So the ships we fly are pretty much whatever, our ranks? yah whatever, the playable Romulans? we get the friendly versions rather then the minority tinfoil Tal Shiar bad guys, yah whatever.
They could take a 3d model of a TRIBBLE put starfleet/kdf insignias on it and give it 6 tac console slots and a 6/4 weapon layout and people would still buy it. People would then probably try to justify it by saying that it's canon because the alien ship from ST IV looked kinda like a log of TRIBBLE.
lieutenant (shown on screen on a monitor during the space drop) -> lieutenant commander, lieutenant commander -> commander, commander -> captain.
Thats 3 grades not 6.
Plus at least Kirk saved Earth Pike got a 4 grade promotion largely for getting captured as a distraction.
That was a Brevet promotion, it was not a permanent promotion. When he went back to the academy to receive his award, he was reverted back to cadet. Had he actually recieved that promotion he'd of been in a starfleet uniform much like Pikes, not a Cadet uniform.
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Just to point out something; Starfleet is not the US navy.
It is not career suicide to refuse promotion in Starfleet.
Counterpoint: an admiral in TNG warned Riker that if he kept refusing promotions he was going to seriously damage his career. Career suicide? No, but it's not a terrifically good idea either.
A bridge crew can be made up of all Commanders and Lt. Commanders.
Counterpoint: Guy earlier in the thread whose real life US Navy carrier had two captains (OF-6) on its bridge crew, not including the actual CO of the ship. Also, the Commander, Air Group, the officer in charge of flight operations, is usually a captain as well.
As typical of VOY, that's just flat-out lousy writing because the writers wanted to keep an Ensign Newbie character around for the other characters to act superior to. Even Garrett Wang himself complained that it was stifling his character development.
In-universe the explanation is supposedly that nobody was getting any promotions while the ship was stuck in the Delta Quadrant. Even Tom Paris only got restored to his original grade of lieutenant (this was after Captain Flaming Hypocrite busted him down to ensign for violating the Prime Directive).
Provisional officers apparently outrank actual Ensigns.
See the difference between rank-imposed authority and positional authority. Also look up the term "field commission".
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
I heard a few times before that Starfleet is more like the coastguard than the navy.
That was Roddenberry being a weirdo again. Nobody paid him any attention because for all intents and purposes Starfleet is the Federation Navy (and Marine Corps for that matter) whether they like it or not.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
That was a Brevet promotion, it was not a permanent promotion. When he went back to the academy to receive his award, he was reverted back to cadet. Had he actually recieved that promotion he'd of been in a starfleet uniform much like Pikes, not a Cadet uniform.
That sounds stupid on so many levels.
I mean seriously its hey lets bump some cadets that are probably about to graduate (The Kobayashi Maru seems more senior about the graduate don't you think) anyway to officer to deal with an unexpected crisis and then when its over drop them back to cadet despite the personal lose Starfleet just got hit with (you know the whole 6 destroyed starships thing) and the fact that they would only conceivably be back to cadet for like all of five minutes before they graduate.
Yeah, that totally sounds more plausible then say not having gotten a proper dress uniform (and I doubt Bad Robot/Paramount would pay for a bunch new of costumes used for all of one short scene) yet since they were sent out in a hurry and it was probably doubtful they need one yet anyway.
As I said the other day, from a story perspective, the only Fleet Admiral who's going to be running around commanding starships and blowing stuff up is YOU.
The story does not recognize other people's ranks when compared to you. Each toon functionally exists in their own timeline, their own world, where they are the hero, and everyone else around them is a nobody. Even from the perspective of the different toons on your own account, save for the account bank, they don't exist at all.
Does it matter that if you click on someone else it says 50 VA or 60FA? Nope, because as far as you're concerned, they're not admirals. They might as well not exist.
In your world, you are the Kirk/Picard/Sisko/Janeway/Archer/whatever. In everyone else's world, they are, and you're the nobody. Your story does not exist, because it's thiers. You could have been a captain for years as far as they are concerned, working the way up the ranks the old fashioned way.
Everywhere I look, people are screaming about how bad Cryptic is.
What's my position?
That people should know what they're screaming about!
(paraphrased from "The Newsroom)
I mean seriously its hey lets bump some cadets that are probably about to graduate (The Kobayashi Maru seems more senior about the graduate don't you think) anyway to officer to deal with an unexpected crisis and then when its over drop them back to cadet despite the personal lose Starfleet just got hit with (you know the whole 6 destroyed starships thing) and the fact that they would only conceivably be back to cadet for like all of five minutes before they graduate.
Yeah, that totally sounds more plausible then say not having gotten a proper dress uniform (and I doubt Bad Robot/Paramount would pay for a bunch new of costumes used for all of one short scene) yet since they were sent out in a hurry and it was probably doubtful they need one yet anyway.
Unless starfleet confirmed his actual rank to Lieutenant, then yes it actually happens. You don't know much about commissions and ranks do you?
Hell take for example the starfleet intro. Do you realize that LT rank the captaion of that one ship gives you is only provisional at that time. You're only confirmed to the rank or LT after Quinn says so. He could of easily NOT confirmed it, and you'd of instantly reverted to Ensign after graduating the Academy.
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lieutenant (shown on screen on a monitor during the space drop) -> lieutenant commander, lieutenant commander -> commander, commander -> captain.
Thats 3 grades not 6.
Plus at least Kirk saved Earth Pike got a 4 grade promotion largely for getting captured as a distraction.
Kirk boarded the Enterprise as a Cadet...on the bridge when Kirk, Pike and Spock talked about them warping into a trap during the conversation Kirk was referred to as a Cadet. It was not until immediately before the space jump that Kirk was promoted by Pike to the position of First Officer.
Cadet > Ensign > Lt > LtJg > LtCdr > Cdr > Capt
But i dont believe Star Trek uses Lt Junior Grade so you can skip that one. Lastly... whether it is 3, 5 or 6 jumps in rank, Cadet to Captain is still a big leap, regardless of what ones actions may have been on one mission....even a Lt to a Captain is a big leap. Saving the world doesnt prepare you for all the things one may encounter while in command of a starship.
Poor Harry Kim. Wesley Crusher got more promotions. And at a younger age.
Whilst everyone else on the bridge jumps up and down ranks like a yo-yo.
That's a matter of positional authority. In Sisko's case during the Dominion War (Operation Return specifically) he was the attache for the Admiral in Command of that Area of Operation and the planner for the battle so it's logical that he would take the lead in the field. For Picard in the Battle of Sector 001, he's a special case as Commander of the Federation Flagship and being Jean-Luc Picard he's senior to most line and flag officers in everything except rank.
I knew that, it's just You would expect Martok or Ross to be in command not Sisko. However Picard was the logical choice for 001.
I got nothing.
I don't think anyone does .
Provisional Officers (in the case of Voyager's Maquis) are still officers and depending on their assigned rank they would outrank an ensign. Otherwise there would be no point in making them provisional at all. Also Chakotay actually had a Commander rank in Starfleet and resigned, in his case if his normal commission were reactivated he would still outrank Kim and Paris by a large order of magnitude.
Counterpoint: an admiral in TNG warned Riker that if he kept refusing promotions he was going to seriously damage his career. Career suicide? No, but it's not a terrifically good idea either.
And yet he remained a first officer for about 10 years before being given a cushy command with his pick of command crew.
Counterpoint: Guy earlier in the thread whose real life US Navy carrier had two captains (OF-6) on its bridge crew, not including the actual CO of the ship. Also, the Commander, Air Group, the officer in charge of flight operations, is usually a captain as well.
Yeah, I missed that, I'm not in the Navy so I just assumed that's a rather large amount of senior officers on one ship.
Nope. By the 24th century it's been replaced with rear admiral (lower half).
See above.
As typical of VOY, that's just flat-out lousy writing because the writers wanted to keep an Ensign Newbie character around for the other characters to act superior to. Even Garrett Wang himself complained that it was stifling his character development.
Well yeah, unfortunately it's still canon SF policy (unless Janeway was just being a loon :P)
In-universe the explanation is supposedly that nobody was getting any promotions while the ship was stuck in the Delta Quadrant. Even Tom Paris only got restored to his original grade of lieutenant (this was after Captain Flaming Hypocrite busted him down to ensign for violating the Prime Directive).
Torres, Tuvok, Paris all go up and down in rank through VOY.
Find me a single person other than JJ's scriptwriter who finds that believable.
Unfortunately it's still canon.
See the difference between rank-imposed authority and positional authority. Also look up the term "field commission".
I understand the term 'field commission', I also understand the term 'assuming command'. Janeway had the authority to usurp Ranson as captain of his own ship due to situational necessity, Nog would have had the same right.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I understand the term 'field commission', I also understand the term 'assuming command'. Janeway had the authority to usurp Ranson as captain of his own ship due to situational necessity, Nog would have had the same right.
Nog SHOULD of assumed command. He was a commissioned officer. I would have given Nog a STRONG talking to about the chain of command if I had been Sisko.
Far as Janeway, she actually made a good call as Senior officer. Equinox was too badly hurt to continue on and it was better to get a consolidated crew on the more efficient ship.
I'd of made the same call to scuttle the Equinox and bring the crew over to Voyager had I been in command.
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As I said the other day, from a story perspective, the only Fleet Admiral who's going to be running around commanding starships and blowing stuff up is YOU.
The story does not recognize other people's ranks when compared to you. Each toon functionally exists in their own timeline, their own world, where they are the hero, and everyone else around them is a nobody. Even from the perspective of the different toons on your own account, save for the account bank, they don't exist at all.
Does it matter that if you click on someone else it says 50 VA or 60FA? Nope, because as far as you're concerned, they're not admirals. They might as well not exist.
In your world, you are the Kirk/Picard/Sisko/Janeway/Archer/whatever. In everyone else's world, they are, and you're the nobody. Your story does not exist, because it's thiers. You could have been a captain for years as far as they are concerned, working the way up the ranks the old fashioned way.
Devs decided to treat an MMO like a singleplayer game? ehh whatever. Everybody is doing it so might as well.
That's not directed at your comment Kamen, but more at the devs decision on how to put together the storyline alongside the multiplayer aspect. I've never been a fan of the "chosen one" storyline, especially in MMO type games. Doing the same quests as every other person in the game is acceptable, and so is killing the same bosses week after week along with everyone else doing the same. Until Skynet starts making MMOs with super computers that have individualized quests for all, i'll accept the quest system they have for us now.
But when they start getting too specific with the storyline and how you are the saviour of all then for some people that kinda interferes with the multiplayer part. My title says that i'm he saviour of all, but this other guy who i've never met before has the same title, what's going on?! See I dont want to ignore the other players playing the game with me i want them/me/us equally acknowledged.
From the story perspective, he doesn't have that title, only you do. And from his perspect you don't ether. The multi-payer aspect is something else all together. Considering it's the same events over and over for no obvious reason...
Everywhere I look, people are screaming about how bad Cryptic is.
What's my position?
That people should know what they're screaming about!
(paraphrased from "The Newsroom)
Kirk boarded the Enterprise as a Cadet...on the bridge when Kirk, Pike and Spock talked about them warping into a trap during the conversation Kirk was referred to as a Cadet. It was not until immediately before the space jump that Kirk was promoted by Pike to the position of First Officer.
But i dont believe Star Trek uses Lt Junior Grade so you can skip that one. Lastly... whether it is 3, 5 or 6 jumps in rank, Cadet to Captain is still a big leap, regardless of what ones actions may have been on one mission....even a Lt to a Captain is a big leap. Saving the world doesnt prepare you for all the things one may encounter while in command of a starship.
Yeah, and I doubt a real military wouldn't have executed Spock for going to Talos IV just becuase the big brain aliens worked it out. Or not reamed Kirk's TRIBBLE out over diverting to Vulcan just becuase someone they don't take orders from vouched for him.
Or let half the TRIBBLE Star Trek captains do slide.
Face it trying to play the treat Starfleet like a real military card falls apart when the main characters haven't been court martialed or at least reassigned to TRIBBLE posts for the stunts they pull.
Yeah, I missed that, I'm not in the Navy so I just assumed that's a rather large amount of senior officers on one ship.
Well, it isn't. The big ships (mainly carriers, as well as battleships when they were still a thing) tend to have officers of more senior grades as department heads and senior staff
Torres, Tuvok, Paris all go up and down in rank through VOY.
No, they don't. The fact that the costume department was staffed with incompetents who couldn't keep the number of collar pips straight* doesn't affect their rank as specified in the opening credits. Unless they were stated to have been promoted or demoted in the show script, their rank is static.
* Also not unique to VOY, by the way. Off the top of my head, DS9: "Field of Fire" had the first victim of the serial killer get referred to as an ensign, but his rank insignia said "lieutenant junior grade". Are we to assume that ensigns wear a gold pip and a black pip sometimes and just a gold pip under other circumstances because somebody in costuming goofed?
I understand the term 'field commission', I also understand the term 'assuming command'. Janeway had the authority to usurp Ranson as captain of his own ship due to situational necessity, Nog would have had the same right.
Okay, my bad. Like the other guy I thought you were talking about VOY, not the Valiant. But here's a counterpoint to the "cadets in charge of starships thing": The Valiant demonstrates exactly why they shouldn't be.
"Great War! / And I cannot take more! / Great tour! / I keep on marching on / I play the great score / There will be no encore / Great War! / The War to End All Wars"
— Sabaton, "Great War"
Field promotion. Infact half of that crew got field promotions. At the end before Kirk gets his medal there were only two possibly 3 of the senior officers who'd haven't be given a field promotion.
Spock
Scotty
Sulu(unknown or not, I thin k he was actually a LT out of the academy).
Uhurha, Checkov, Kirk and even McCoy, all temporary field promotions. So on the books he'd be logged as LT J Kirk, but until Star Fleet command actually confirmed it, he'd still be at his cadet rank.
Wasn't until AFTER when Kirk was formally given command were all those ranks actually confirmed ranks by Star Fleet Command.
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From the story perspective, he doesn't have that title, only you do. And from his perspect you don't ether. The multi-payer aspect is something else all together. Considering it's the same events over and over for no obvious reason...
Yah see i want the singleplayer and multiplayer to both make sense. If everybody were to wear their highest rank title there would be a ton of VAs in ESD and parked outside. And that would kinda make me go uhhhhhh. I also dont like ignoring certain things just to it makes sense to me. It's like reading a book, i read it cover to cover and i change nothing and i either like it or i hate it. I mean do you remember in the Lord of the Rings novel when Frodo left the Shire and Optimus Prime carried him on his shoulders but then the T-1000 tried to steal the one ring so he poked Frodo on the shoulder with his poison tipped finger? But eventually Frodo and his sidekick Squirrel Girl made it to Mount Doom where Frodo had to fight Sauron and Hulk Hogan with the help of the crew from the Red October? then at the end he was so weak that he couldnt move so Ironman came and flew him to safety where he met up with Magneto and Elvis.
Hehe thats pretty much why i wont change anything about a story, whether it is a book or a game. Even if the change would make my RP any better.
Uhurha, Checkov, Kirk and even McCoy, all temporary field promotions. So on the books he'd be logged as LT J Kirk, but until Star Fleet command actually confirmed it, he'd still be at his cadet rank.
Wasn't until AFTER when Kirk was formally given command were all those ranks actually confirmed ranks by Star Fleet Command.
Or they just got their commissions early like Nog did in DS9.
You know going by what the fictional space military originally made up of the combined forces of 4 different species in-universe does instead of basing it off of what an unrelated real life military does.
Or they just got their commissions early like Nog did in DS9.
You know going by what the fictional space military originally made up of the combined forces of 4 different species in-universe does instead of basing it off of what an unrelated real life military does.
In a wartime setting no, not really. Temporary field commissions which would of been confirmed like they were when the emergency was over.
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I wasnt disputing your claim that he was showing as a Lt on some console. I was stating that when he got on board the enterprise...hitchhiked, stowaway, crawled into someones duffel bag whatever, that he was a Cadet. In fact i did mention that he was promoted to First Officer on the spot right before he did his space jump.
Again applying real world military rules to a fictional space navy that doesn't care about that.
And you're assuming they don't.
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Again applying real world military rules to a fictional space navy that doesn't care about that.
I understand that you're comparing science fiction to what we actually live in. However, Starfleet is a branch of the military which began on Earth. Earth military is pretty strict. I'm not talking about seperatists, or coups. I'm talking about a strong government backing a cause.
Again applying real world military rules to a fictional space navy that doesn't care about that.
The setting of Star Trek is supposed to be in the future (obviously). But it isnt like Star Wars where it some galaxy far far away. There are episodes in Star Trek where they travel back in time. I vaguely remember a ToS episode where Kirk and friends went back to a 1960s Air Force base...which if based on when ToS was made would have made it a present day Air Force base hehe. There was also the episode where Kirk and McCoy go back to WW2 and Bones was trying to bone this one chick, but she gets run over by a truck and as McCoy was going to try and save her Kirk held him back i think. And of course there is ST IV where they go back to get the whales and Chekov and Uhura find the USS Enterprise aircraft carrier.
So Gene or whoever decided to model Starfleet after the US Navy. You would think that if they modeled the ships, the ranks and the titles after the real Navy that they would have modeled the customs after the real US Navy customs too. At least when it was convenient to the plot of the story. JJ Trek pretty much did away with that either because he didnt care or he was just trying to appeal to a different audience Ohh you know what would be cool? if a hotshot nobody of a Cadet saved the world and got promoted to Captain and got his ship! that would be so coooool! hey i gotta tell my friends about this movie they will think it's so cool! in the meantime i'm here going wtf.
^ Keep in mind that Gene was Air Force, so he wasn't used to Naval parlance, but it is the most logical. The way a starship operates is much closer to the Navy than any other branch or type of service.
Counterpoint: Guy earlier in the thread whose real life US Navy carrier had two captains (OF-6) on its bridge crew, not including the actual CO of the ship. Also, the Commander, Air Group, the officer in charge of flight operations, is usually a captain as well.
I didn't want to bring up the air wing, but yes. The Air Wing has its own Captain, and each Squadron Commander is a Commander, but that's also technically a separate chain of command.
As typical of VOY, that's just flat-out lousy writing because the writers wanted to keep an Ensign Newbie character around for the other characters to act superior to. Even Garrett Wang himself complained that it was stifling his character development.
In-universe the explanation is supposedly that nobody was getting any promotions while the ship was stuck in the Delta Quadrant. Even Tom Paris only got restored to his original grade of lieutenant (this was after Captain Flaming Hypocrite busted him down to ensign for violating the Prime Directive).
All the worse since, if he didn't do anything wrong he should've automatically been promoted to Lt JG.
And he had the billet (official job) of Operations Manager which is no small position. He's responsible for telling almost every department on the ship when to do what they need to do. Who else had that job? Data, who was third in Command of the Enterprise-D and E. Him being stuck at ensign was garbage.
Commodore and Rear Admiral are the same rank. Rear Admiral exists in the 24th and 25th century, we have never seen a commodore in that time period. My conclusion is that commodore was retired along with Fleet Captain. Otherwise it would be a superfluous rank.
Whilst everyone else on the bridge jumps up and down ranks like a yo-yo.
I don't recall that. The only promotion I remember on the show aside from Paris getting knocked down to ensign and regaining his JG later is Tuvok's promotion to Lieutenant Commander, which was an event.
I knew that, it's just You would expect Martok or Ross to be in command not Sisko. However Picard was the logical choice for 001.
Ross as the Admiral wouldn't go to the frontline. Martok was attempting (successfully) to pull Gowron's head out of his TRIBBLE.
I was on about the Valiant crew.
F)*# RED SQUAD! :mad:
I'm pissed off that Tim Watters died, I wanted to see him Court Martialed into oblivion!
As for Naval rank, it's not uncommon on a ship the size of a carrier. Other full commanders were the Air Boss (Commander, in charge of all flight operations related activities ship side) and the Gun Boss (Commander, responsible for all ordnance and ammunition).
One thing that Star Trek does seem odd about is the sheer number of officers vs enlisted. For instance no officer ever drove my ship, the Conning Officer issued commands to the helmsman who then carried them out. Even the master helmsman were Seamen or Petty Officers.
On the other hand on smaller ships, a Lieutenant Commander can be in full command of a Frigate. Most Submarine Captains are Commanders.
Kirk boarded the Enterprise as a Cadet...on the bridge when Kirk, Pike and Spock talked about them warping into a trap during the conversation Kirk was referred to as a Cadet. It was not until immediately before the space jump that Kirk was promoted by Pike to the position of First Officer.
Cadet > Ensign > Lt > LtJg > LtCdr > Cdr > Capt
But i dont believe Star Trek uses Lt Junior Grade so you can skip that one. Lastly... whether it is 3, 5 or 6 jumps in rank, Cadet to Captain is still a big leap, regardless of what ones actions may have been on one mission....even a Lt to a Captain is a big leap. Saving the world doesnt prepare you for all the things one may encounter while in command of a starship.
No, Star Trek does use Lieutenant JG. You can see it in the rank in the tailor. One solid gold pip one hollow pip. It was Geordi's rank in Season 1 and Nog's ending rank in What you Leave Behind.
Yeah, and I doubt a real military wouldn't have executed Spock for going to Talos IV just becuase the big brain aliens worked it out. Or not reamed Kirk's TRIBBLE out over diverting to Vulcan just becuase someone they don't take orders from vouched for him.
Or let half the TRIBBLE Star Trek captains do slide.
Face it trying to play the treat Starfleet like a real military card falls apart when the main characters haven't been court martialed or at least reassigned to TRIBBLE posts for the stunts they pull.
One thing that most people haven't mentioned is that Starfleet isn't just Navy Coast Guard, but also NASA. They have a specific active mission, to explore and discover.
Starfleet is also the first branch of the Federation's diplomatic department.
Spock hijacking the Enterprise and violating General Order 7 while both serious crimes, were nullified by the diplomatic coup of actually having peaceful relations with the Talosians. It was also a bit of a con on the Talosians part.
General Order 7 forbids communication with the Talosians. Since everyone there had communicated with the Talosians it could be interpreted that the Commodore would've also been subject to punishment. I'm joking of course, but the rule is meant as a protection from a hostile species. Starfleet has proven that it is part of their standing policy to understand the spirit of the law as well as the letter. Dropping Pike off on Talos IV was something for his quality of life, and ultimately was not dangerous to the Federation or Enterprise crew.
Diverting to Vulcan to save a friend's life is morally admirable. But I think you're underestimating T'Pau's pull. This isn't so much the governor of a state pulling a favor, in the US. It's more like the Prime Minister of Great Britain saying that "we your strongest ally needed this ship for a dire purpose, we apologize for not informing you." to the head of the UN.
No it's more than that. If you go by the novel the last full measure, which in my view is logical, this is the T'Pau, who helped form the Federation. The one who ordered Vulcan's participation in the joint mission to stop the Romulan drone ship, the one who signed for Vulcan on the Federation charter. Starfleet isn't going to tell one of the founders of the Federation to TRIBBLE off.
Starfleet does seem to have an if it works policy.
Remember, the style of naval action Roddenberry was going for was Horatio Hornblower. This captain is the only person representing us anywhere they go, and they need latitude to do what needs to be done.
Nog SHOULD of assumed command. He was a commissioned officer. I would have given Nog a STRONG talking to about the chain of command if I had been Sisko.
That one is dicey. The little rat was correct that since he was given command by the actual Captain and field promoted it was his ship. Nog should've relieved him as soon as he went out of the bounds of his orders however. He had no authority to go after that Jem Hadar battleship.
Far as Janeway, she actually made a good call as Senior officer. Equinox was too badly hurt to continue on and it was better to get a consolidated crew on the more efficient ship.
I'd of made the same call to scuttle the Equinox and bring the crew over to Voyager had I been in command.
Indeed, scrapping the Equinox for every bit of tech and useable hardware on it is the best way to go.
Yah see i want the singleplayer and multiplayer to both make sense. If everybody were to wear their highest rank title there would be a ton of VAs in ESD and parked outside. And that would kinda make me go uhhhhhh. I also dont like ignoring certain things just to it makes sense to me. It's like reading a book, i read it cover to cover and i change nothing and i either like it or i hate it. I mean do you remember in the Lord of the Rings novel when Frodo left the Shire and Optimus Prime carried him on his shoulders but then the T-1000 tried to steal the one ring so he poked Frodo on the shoulder with his poison tipped finger? But eventually Frodo and his sidekick Squirrel Girl made it to Mount Doom where Frodo had to fight Sauron and Hulk Hogan with the help of the crew from the Red October? then at the end he was so weak that he couldnt move so Ironman came and flew him to safety where he met up with Magneto and Elvis.
Hehe thats pretty much why i wont change anything about a story, whether it is a book or a game. Even if the change would make my RP any better.
If he had used Hulk Hogan's fingerpoke of doom it would've worked.
"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"
The setting of Star Trek is supposed to be in the future (obviously). But it isnt like Star Wars where it some galaxy far far away. There are episodes in Star Trek where they travel back in time. I vaguely remember a ToS episode where Kirk and friends went back to a 1960s Air Force base...which if based on when ToS was made would have made it a present day Air Force base hehe. There was also the episode where Kirk and McCoy go back to WW2 and Bones was trying to bone this one chick, but she gets run over by a truck and as McCoy was going to try and save her Kirk held him back i think. And of course there is ST IV where they go back to get the whales and Chekov and Uhura find the USS Enterprise aircraft carrier.
And that has what to do with a fictional space military from 244 years in the future.
Should we also expect the British Royal Navy of 1770 to act like the US Navy of 2014?
You would think that if they modeled the ships, the ranks and the titles after the real Navy that they would have modeled the customs after the real US Navy customs too.
So they had hats and salutes in TOS? And Navy captains usual led the teams that left the ship?
JJ Trek pretty much did away with that either because he didnt care or he was just trying to appeal to a different audience.
aka people who actually watched TOS and weren't going off of rose colored memories.
Spock hijacking the Enterprise and violating General Order 7 while both serious crimes, were nullified by the diplomatic coup of actually having peaceful relations with the Talosians. It was also a bit of a con on the Talosians part.
What relations? Nothing really changed since the Cage when relations were stay off of Talos IV for your own good. Remember Pike tried to open diplomatic relations in The Cage and got shot down as the Talosions didn't want humans to end up like them.
General Order 7 forbids communication with the Talosians. Since everyone there had communicated with the Talosians it could be interpreted that the Commodore would've also been subject to punishment. I'm joking of course, but the rule is meant as a protection from a hostile species. Starfleet has proven that it is part of their standing policy to understand the spirit of the law as well as the letter. Dropping Pike off on Talos IV was something for his quality of life, and ultimately was not dangerous to the Federation or Enterprise crew.
Again, Pike tried to open diplomatic relations in The Cage and got shot down as the Talosions didn't want humans to end up like them. So nothing actually changed.
Diverting to Vulcan to save a friend's life is morally admirable. But I think you're underestimating T'Pau's pull. This isn't so much the governor of a state pulling a favor, in the US. It's more like the Prime Minister of Great Britain saying that "we your strongest ally needed this ship for a dire purpose, we apologize for not informing you." to the head of the UN.
He says while forgetting that the US government (assuming its their ship being diverted) probably wouldn't give a TRIBBLE about why they diverted to the UK or that they needed it or else the War of 1812 wouldn't have been partially caused by the British conscripting British US immigrants to fight the French.
No it's more than that. If you go by the novel the last full measure, which in my view is logical, this is the T'Pau, who helped form the Federation. The one who ordered Vulcan's participation in the joint mission to stop the Romulan drone ship, the one who signed for Vulcan on the Federation charter. Starfleet isn't going to tell one of the founders of the Federation to TRIBBLE off.
No they just tell high ranking diplomat Sarek to TRIBBLE off when all he wants is someone to grab his son's body from Genesis (a far less request then divert a ship from an ongoing mission to drop Spock off for his wedding) and send it back to Vulcan while dismissing it as Vulcan mysticism.
Plus considering that Kirk could use in the middle of a mission to get his ship made a priority at a repair base despite other ships needing repairs due to being on patrol something other than its really important but its to secretive to talk about is probably needed to get them to divert a ship already on a mission.
That one is dicey. The little rat was correct that since he was given command by the actual Captain and field promoted it was his ship. Nog should've relieved him as soon as he went out of the bounds of his orders however.
And then laugh when you realize that when ever a Starfleet Admiral tried to pull that one the crew was seen as heroic for telling said admiral to stuff it, which makes it ironic as heck.
Plus for all we know a dying captain granting a cadet a field commission of captain is totally legal in Starfleet. So Nog would need the chief medical officer's help before relieving him, and I don't think they would help.
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I would probably have done a vignette style tutorial, that eventually fast forwards you to your first command as Captain. And you stay Captain for the entire game, except perhaps in some special expansion where you can take the option to become Admiral, with new gameplay options. (This would be hard to do, you don't want advancement to close doors to certain content or gameplay.)
Basically, have some scenes at the tutorial, maybe some multiple choice dialogue aspects where you say how you handled certain things along your career (to model a "career choice" perhaps, or set some starting attributes, kind of like Jagged Alliance 2 had that personality quiz that determined certain starting aspects of your alter ego), and give your character some background that can later be used in more personal story arcs.
When I win in the lottery (I only have a slightly lower chance of winning the lottery than people that actually buy lottery tickets), I might make my Startrek Online II based on such ideas...
I think i mentioned it in this thread or maybe another one.
I think that they should have had us starting off in our own ships as LCdrs at somewhere around level 1-5. The tutorial could have had you starting off as a Cadet and going to your first posting. And the tutorial would still be there teaching you the basics, but at the same time you are doing minor duties of a Ensign/Lt. Then they coulda done another fade to black and fast forward to the future where you are now a Lt and a sequence of events leads to you getting promoted to a LCdr. The revised KDF story does this pretty well...the only thing that i think would make it complete is if you killed the Captain after the challenge and you got promoted to a LCdr.
The lower level stuff where you are given your first ship as a Lt actually bothers me more then getting called a VA/LG or fleet admiral and still doing scut work. But at this point the game has so many inconsistencies i dont really care anymore. People are flying ships from the Undine, Jem'Hadar, Xindi-Aquatic Neurotic Narcine Dreadnaught Superholycrapthisisalongname Carrier. I could maybe understand if we had Fed and KDF ships with technology that was reverse engineered from those other ships. But i guess that doesnt really mesh well with their F2P model. So the ships we fly are pretty much whatever, our ranks? yah whatever, the playable Romulans? we get the friendly versions rather then the minority tinfoil Tal Shiar bad guys, yah whatever.
They could take a 3d model of a TRIBBLE put starfleet/kdf insignias on it and give it 6 tac console slots and a 6/4 weapon layout and people would still buy it. People would then probably try to justify it by saying that it's canon because the alien ship from ST IV looked kinda like a log of TRIBBLE.
It was 3 learn to count. And he wasn't a cadet.
lieutenant (shown on screen on a monitor during the space drop) -> lieutenant commander, lieutenant commander -> commander, commander -> captain.
Thats 3 grades not 6.
Plus at least Kirk saved Earth Pike got a 4 grade promotion largely for getting captured as a distraction.
That was a Brevet promotion, it was not a permanent promotion. When he went back to the academy to receive his award, he was reverted back to cadet. Had he actually recieved that promotion he'd of been in a starfleet uniform much like Pikes, not a Cadet uniform.
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Counterpoint: Guy earlier in the thread whose real life US Navy carrier had two captains (OF-6) on its bridge crew, not including the actual CO of the ship. Also, the Commander, Air Group, the officer in charge of flight operations, is usually a captain as well.
Nope. By the 24th century it's been replaced with rear admiral (lower half).
As typical of VOY, that's just flat-out lousy writing because the writers wanted to keep an Ensign Newbie character around for the other characters to act superior to. Even Garrett Wang himself complained that it was stifling his character development.
In-universe the explanation is supposedly that nobody was getting any promotions while the ship was stuck in the Delta Quadrant. Even Tom Paris only got restored to his original grade of lieutenant (this was after Captain Flaming Hypocrite busted him down to ensign for violating the Prime Directive).
Find me a single person other than JJ's scriptwriter who finds that believable.
See the difference between rank-imposed authority and positional authority. Also look up the term "field commission".
— Sabaton, "Great War"
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That was Roddenberry being a weirdo again. Nobody paid him any attention because for all intents and purposes Starfleet is the Federation Navy (and Marine Corps for that matter) whether they like it or not.
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That sounds stupid on so many levels.
I mean seriously its hey lets bump some cadets that are probably about to graduate (The Kobayashi Maru seems more senior about the graduate don't you think) anyway to officer to deal with an unexpected crisis and then when its over drop them back to cadet despite the personal lose Starfleet just got hit with (you know the whole 6 destroyed starships thing) and the fact that they would only conceivably be back to cadet for like all of five minutes before they graduate.
Yeah, that totally sounds more plausible then say not having gotten a proper dress uniform (and I doubt Bad Robot/Paramount would pay for a bunch new of costumes used for all of one short scene) yet since they were sent out in a hurry and it was probably doubtful they need one yet anyway.
The story does not recognize other people's ranks when compared to you. Each toon functionally exists in their own timeline, their own world, where they are the hero, and everyone else around them is a nobody. Even from the perspective of the different toons on your own account, save for the account bank, they don't exist at all.
Does it matter that if you click on someone else it says 50 VA or 60FA? Nope, because as far as you're concerned, they're not admirals. They might as well not exist.
In your world, you are the Kirk/Picard/Sisko/Janeway/Archer/whatever. In everyone else's world, they are, and you're the nobody. Your story does not exist, because it's thiers. You could have been a captain for years as far as they are concerned, working the way up the ranks the old fashioned way.
What's my position?
That people should know what they're screaming about!
(paraphrased from "The Newsroom)
Unless starfleet confirmed his actual rank to Lieutenant, then yes it actually happens. You don't know much about commissions and ranks do you?
Hell take for example the starfleet intro. Do you realize that LT rank the captaion of that one ship gives you is only provisional at that time. You're only confirmed to the rank or LT after Quinn says so. He could of easily NOT confirmed it, and you'd of instantly reverted to Ensign after graduating the Academy.
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Kirk boarded the Enterprise as a Cadet...on the bridge when Kirk, Pike and Spock talked about them warping into a trap during the conversation Kirk was referred to as a Cadet. It was not until immediately before the space jump that Kirk was promoted by Pike to the position of First Officer.
Cadet > Ensign > Lt > LtJg > LtCdr > Cdr > Capt
But i dont believe Star Trek uses Lt Junior Grade so you can skip that one. Lastly... whether it is 3, 5 or 6 jumps in rank, Cadet to Captain is still a big leap, regardless of what ones actions may have been on one mission....even a Lt to a Captain is a big leap. Saving the world doesnt prepare you for all the things one may encounter while in command of a starship.
I understand the term 'field commission', I also understand the term 'assuming command'. Janeway had the authority to usurp Ranson as captain of his own ship due to situational necessity, Nog would have had the same right.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Nog SHOULD of assumed command. He was a commissioned officer. I would have given Nog a STRONG talking to about the chain of command if I had been Sisko.
Far as Janeway, she actually made a good call as Senior officer. Equinox was too badly hurt to continue on and it was better to get a consolidated crew on the more efficient ship.
I'd of made the same call to scuttle the Equinox and bring the crew over to Voyager had I been in command.
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Devs decided to treat an MMO like a singleplayer game? ehh whatever. Everybody is doing it so might as well.
That's not directed at your comment Kamen, but more at the devs decision on how to put together the storyline alongside the multiplayer aspect. I've never been a fan of the "chosen one" storyline, especially in MMO type games. Doing the same quests as every other person in the game is acceptable, and so is killing the same bosses week after week along with everyone else doing the same. Until Skynet starts making MMOs with super computers that have individualized quests for all, i'll accept the quest system they have for us now.
But when they start getting too specific with the storyline and how you are the saviour of all then for some people that kinda interferes with the multiplayer part. My title says that i'm he saviour of all, but this other guy who i've never met before has the same title, what's going on?! See I dont want to ignore the other players playing the game with me i want them/me/us equally acknowledged.
What's my position?
That people should know what they're screaming about!
(paraphrased from "The Newsroom)
And yet.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/File:Lt._J._Kirk.jpg
Yeah, and I doubt a real military wouldn't have executed Spock for going to Talos IV just becuase the big brain aliens worked it out. Or not reamed Kirk's TRIBBLE out over diverting to Vulcan just becuase someone they don't take orders from vouched for him.
Or let half the TRIBBLE Star Trek captains do slide.
Face it trying to play the treat Starfleet like a real military card falls apart when the main characters haven't been court martialed or at least reassigned to TRIBBLE posts for the stunts they pull.
No, they don't. The fact that the costume department was staffed with incompetents who couldn't keep the number of collar pips straight* doesn't affect their rank as specified in the opening credits. Unless they were stated to have been promoted or demoted in the show script, their rank is static.
* Also not unique to VOY, by the way. Off the top of my head, DS9: "Field of Fire" had the first victim of the serial killer get referred to as an ensign, but his rank insignia said "lieutenant junior grade". Are we to assume that ensigns wear a gold pip and a black pip sometimes and just a gold pip under other circumstances because somebody in costuming goofed?
Okay, my bad. Like the other guy I thought you were talking about VOY, not the Valiant. But here's a counterpoint to the "cadets in charge of starships thing": The Valiant demonstrates exactly why they shouldn't be.
— Sabaton, "Great War"
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Field promotion. Infact half of that crew got field promotions. At the end before Kirk gets his medal there were only two possibly 3 of the senior officers who'd haven't be given a field promotion.
Spock
Scotty
Sulu(unknown or not, I thin k he was actually a LT out of the academy).
Uhurha, Checkov, Kirk and even McCoy, all temporary field promotions. So on the books he'd be logged as LT J Kirk, but until Star Fleet command actually confirmed it, he'd still be at his cadet rank.
Wasn't until AFTER when Kirk was formally given command were all those ranks actually confirmed ranks by Star Fleet Command.
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Yah see i want the singleplayer and multiplayer to both make sense. If everybody were to wear their highest rank title there would be a ton of VAs in ESD and parked outside. And that would kinda make me go uhhhhhh. I also dont like ignoring certain things just to it makes sense to me. It's like reading a book, i read it cover to cover and i change nothing and i either like it or i hate it. I mean do you remember in the Lord of the Rings novel when Frodo left the Shire and Optimus Prime carried him on his shoulders but then the T-1000 tried to steal the one ring so he poked Frodo on the shoulder with his poison tipped finger? But eventually Frodo and his sidekick Squirrel Girl made it to Mount Doom where Frodo had to fight Sauron and Hulk Hogan with the help of the crew from the Red October? then at the end he was so weak that he couldnt move so Ironman came and flew him to safety where he met up with Magneto and Elvis.
Hehe thats pretty much why i wont change anything about a story, whether it is a book or a game. Even if the change would make my RP any better.
Or they just got their commissions early like Nog did in DS9.
You know going by what the fictional space military originally made up of the combined forces of 4 different species in-universe does instead of basing it off of what an unrelated real life military does.
In a wartime setting no, not really. Temporary field commissions which would of been confirmed like they were when the emergency was over.
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I wasnt disputing your claim that he was showing as a Lt on some console. I was stating that when he got on board the enterprise...hitchhiked, stowaway, crawled into someones duffel bag whatever, that he was a Cadet. In fact i did mention that he was promoted to First Officer on the spot right before he did his space jump.
so yah...and yet...
Again applying real world military rules to a fictional space navy that doesn't care about that.
And you're assuming they don't.
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I understand that you're comparing science fiction to what we actually live in. However, Starfleet is a branch of the military which began on Earth. Earth military is pretty strict. I'm not talking about seperatists, or coups. I'm talking about a strong government backing a cause.
The setting of Star Trek is supposed to be in the future (obviously). But it isnt like Star Wars where it some galaxy far far away. There are episodes in Star Trek where they travel back in time. I vaguely remember a ToS episode where Kirk and friends went back to a 1960s Air Force base...which if based on when ToS was made would have made it a present day Air Force base hehe. There was also the episode where Kirk and McCoy go back to WW2 and Bones was trying to bone this one chick, but she gets run over by a truck and as McCoy was going to try and save her Kirk held him back i think. And of course there is ST IV where they go back to get the whales and Chekov and Uhura find the USS Enterprise aircraft carrier.
So Gene or whoever decided to model Starfleet after the US Navy. You would think that if they modeled the ships, the ranks and the titles after the real Navy that they would have modeled the customs after the real US Navy customs too. At least when it was convenient to the plot of the story. JJ Trek pretty much did away with that either because he didnt care or he was just trying to appeal to a different audience Ohh you know what would be cool? if a hotshot nobody of a Cadet saved the world and got promoted to Captain and got his ship! that would be so coooool! hey i gotta tell my friends about this movie they will think it's so cool! in the meantime i'm here going wtf.
I didn't want to bring up the air wing, but yes. The Air Wing has its own Captain, and each Squadron Commander is a Commander, but that's also technically a separate chain of command.
All the worse since, if he didn't do anything wrong he should've automatically been promoted to Lt JG.
And he had the billet (official job) of Operations Manager which is no small position. He's responsible for telling almost every department on the ship when to do what they need to do. Who else had that job? Data, who was third in Command of the Enterprise-D and E. Him being stuck at ensign was garbage.
Commodore and Rear Admiral are the same rank. Rear Admiral exists in the 24th and 25th century, we have never seen a commodore in that time period. My conclusion is that commodore was retired along with Fleet Captain. Otherwise it would be a superfluous rank.
I don't recall that. The only promotion I remember on the show aside from Paris getting knocked down to ensign and regaining his JG later is Tuvok's promotion to Lieutenant Commander, which was an event.
Ross as the Admiral wouldn't go to the frontline. Martok was attempting (successfully) to pull Gowron's head out of his TRIBBLE.
F)*# RED SQUAD! :mad:
I'm pissed off that Tim Watters died, I wanted to see him Court Martialed into oblivion!
As for Naval rank, it's not uncommon on a ship the size of a carrier. Other full commanders were the Air Boss (Commander, in charge of all flight operations related activities ship side) and the Gun Boss (Commander, responsible for all ordnance and ammunition).
One thing that Star Trek does seem odd about is the sheer number of officers vs enlisted. For instance no officer ever drove my ship, the Conning Officer issued commands to the helmsman who then carried them out. Even the master helmsman were Seamen or Petty Officers.
On the other hand on smaller ships, a Lieutenant Commander can be in full command of a Frigate. Most Submarine Captains are Commanders.
No, Star Trek does use Lieutenant JG. You can see it in the rank in the tailor. One solid gold pip one hollow pip. It was Geordi's rank in Season 1 and Nog's ending rank in What you Leave Behind.
One thing that most people haven't mentioned is that Starfleet isn't just Navy Coast Guard, but also NASA. They have a specific active mission, to explore and discover.
Starfleet is also the first branch of the Federation's diplomatic department.
Spock hijacking the Enterprise and violating General Order 7 while both serious crimes, were nullified by the diplomatic coup of actually having peaceful relations with the Talosians. It was also a bit of a con on the Talosians part.
General Order 7 forbids communication with the Talosians. Since everyone there had communicated with the Talosians it could be interpreted that the Commodore would've also been subject to punishment. I'm joking of course, but the rule is meant as a protection from a hostile species. Starfleet has proven that it is part of their standing policy to understand the spirit of the law as well as the letter. Dropping Pike off on Talos IV was something for his quality of life, and ultimately was not dangerous to the Federation or Enterprise crew.
Diverting to Vulcan to save a friend's life is morally admirable. But I think you're underestimating T'Pau's pull. This isn't so much the governor of a state pulling a favor, in the US. It's more like the Prime Minister of Great Britain saying that "we your strongest ally needed this ship for a dire purpose, we apologize for not informing you." to the head of the UN.
No it's more than that. If you go by the novel the last full measure, which in my view is logical, this is the T'Pau, who helped form the Federation. The one who ordered Vulcan's participation in the joint mission to stop the Romulan drone ship, the one who signed for Vulcan on the Federation charter. Starfleet isn't going to tell one of the founders of the Federation to TRIBBLE off.
Starfleet does seem to have an if it works policy.
Remember, the style of naval action Roddenberry was going for was Horatio Hornblower. This captain is the only person representing us anywhere they go, and they need latitude to do what needs to be done.
That one is dicey. The little rat was correct that since he was given command by the actual Captain and field promoted it was his ship. Nog should've relieved him as soon as he went out of the bounds of his orders however. He had no authority to go after that Jem Hadar battleship. Indeed, scrapping the Equinox for every bit of tech and useable hardware on it is the best way to go.
If he had used Hulk Hogan's fingerpoke of doom it would've worked.
And that has what to do with a fictional space military from 244 years in the future.
Should we also expect the British Royal Navy of 1770 to act like the US Navy of 2014?
So they had hats and salutes in TOS? And Navy captains usual led the teams that left the ship?
aka people who actually watched TOS and weren't going off of rose colored memories.
What relations? Nothing really changed since the Cage when relations were stay off of Talos IV for your own good. Remember Pike tried to open diplomatic relations in The Cage and got shot down as the Talosions didn't want humans to end up like them.
Again, Pike tried to open diplomatic relations in The Cage and got shot down as the Talosions didn't want humans to end up like them. So nothing actually changed.
He says while forgetting that the US government (assuming its their ship being diverted) probably wouldn't give a TRIBBLE about why they diverted to the UK or that they needed it or else the War of 1812 wouldn't have been partially caused by the British conscripting British US immigrants to fight the French.
No they just tell high ranking diplomat Sarek to TRIBBLE off when all he wants is someone to grab his son's body from Genesis (a far less request then divert a ship from an ongoing mission to drop Spock off for his wedding) and send it back to Vulcan while dismissing it as Vulcan mysticism.
Plus considering that Kirk could use in the middle of a mission to get his ship made a priority at a repair base despite other ships needing repairs due to being on patrol something other than its really important but its to secretive to talk about is probably needed to get them to divert a ship already on a mission.
And then laugh when you realize that when ever a Starfleet Admiral tried to pull that one the crew was seen as heroic for telling said admiral to stuff it, which makes it ironic as heck.
Plus for all we know a dying captain granting a cadet a field commission of captain is totally legal in Starfleet. So Nog would need the chief medical officer's help before relieving him, and I don't think they would help.