There is no lack of knowledge, I simply state a simple minded tac oddy (about 1/10-1/100 the cost of your builds), running axu2batt, can quite literally sit, and destroy a tac cube, all while drinking a soda in the other hand.
My old Dragon-build Sci Oddy, before Fleet holdings existed, could do that as well. La de da. :rolleyes:
I laugh because I don't even use any fleet gear, to get the desire performance I listed.
The tac cube would have been dead, even quicker if I had the tac consoles you list alone.
There is no lack of knowledge, I simply state a simple minded tac oddy (about 1/10-1/100 the cost of your builds), running axu2batt, can quite literally sit, and destroy a tac cube, all while drinking a soda in the other hand.
People are all about it not needing nerfing, but at the same time cannot say it isn't a completely cheap game mechanic.
This tells me they simply don't want it nerfed, because they are possibly strong user's of this ability.
If PO was as equally powerful, than there would be a form of balance, but one skill grating such cd reduction power, is by far an OP ability.
A cruiser is the pinacle of tankiness, and you have to work really hard to get destroyed in one. Any fresh lv50 char with no gear can sit and take the pounding of a mere tac cubus. If anything, that only shows how laughable "Endgame"-Content is.
And that aside: Flying a Ody on a2b gimps that ship beyound understanding, especially dps-wise.
Of course zen ships are useless (bar a few), fleet variants of them exist. Those that don't have fleet get changed eventually (See Galaxy X, Avenger's introduction made it useless, so they decided to buff it).
My point about the Borg STFs was having 1 person clear everything before the rest of the squad can even get into range gets very dull very fast. It's an ELITE mission, 1 person shouldn't be able to solo it without anyone elses help.
Got news for ya pal but even with ATB out of the picture this is possible.
Nerf it already Cryptic so people like the OP can stop their incessant posting on the subject.
My old Dragon-build Sci Oddy, before Fleet holdings existed, could do that as well. La de da. :rolleyes:
ATB complainers do not understand these concepts Jeff, they just use Aux2Bat as a scapegoat for the broader issue of power-creep. They cannot possibly fathom that we were OP long before ATB. Rather hilarious actually. The guys who 2-manned NWS used garden variety CSV escorts if I recall correctly.
Does anybody know roughly when A2B builds first appeared or this mechanic was introduced? Trying to get some perspective on how long engineering heavy tac slot light ships have had this option?
Been playing for over 1000 days, but only paying attention for several hundred
ATB complainers do not understand these concepts Jeff, they just use Aux2Bat as a scapegoat for the broader issue of power-creep. They cannot possibly fathom that we were OP long before ATB. Rather hilarious actually. The guys who 2-manned NWS used garden variety CSV escorts if I recall correctly.
Yeah, it would be different if he said he killed the Tac Cube in a few seconds, but merely surviving and killing it through attrition? My Oddy did that when it was still using 8 Retrofit Phasers from the Connie. I did barely any DPS, but boy could I tank everything.
Does anybody know roughly when A2B builds first appeared or this mechanic was introduced? Trying to get some perspective on how long engineering heavy tac slot light ships have had this option?
I don't know, but since at least October 25, 2011, the date it was added to the STO Wiki.
Does anybody know roughly when A2B builds first appeared or this mechanic was introduced? Trying to get some perspective on how long engineering heavy tac slot light ships have had this option?
Been playing for over 1000 days, but only paying attention for several hundred
Thanks in advance.
tech doffs launched with the doff system, but the skill AtB was on the EPt system cooldown, not the AtD/AtS system cooldown. it sort of sucked like that, you could only run 1 other EPt skill with it, or none if you wanted 2 AtB. in almost any case a damage control doff build, dragon or whatever the hell pve'rs call it, was better.
i remember clearly, the same patch that added the 1000 day veteran ships also moved AtB to the AtB/AtD cooldown system were it belongs. about an hour after the patch drooped, i had my new vet ships and was experimenting with 2 AtB builds, my mind was blown. no one could have been running it before i was, thats a little feather in my cap. i kept it sort of quite for a wile but let other PVPers know about it, but it was 6 to 9 months before i saw pve'rs talking about it on the forums after that.
Please, nerfing aux2batt does not make a ship pointless, or for that matter useless.
This is clearly showing the mindset, that you cannot achieve anything unless you use it, and that furthers the reason it needs nerfing.
It does make things useless.
I remember a time when Cruisers were completely ****e, nobody flew them and poor Engi captains in Engi ships were at the bottom of the heap - tanks in a game in which tanks are pointless . A2B DOFFs finally gave them some teeth.
As has been explained numerous times, A2B is by far not the most powerful configuration in the game. Tac in Tac is still godalmighty, like it should be. But atl least other caps in other ships have ways of doing decent DPS now, unlike when the game first launched.
I, the entitled suburban white male of middle class, am sick of my unique snowflake build that I made without looking at any of the game mechanics, reading any tooltips, and without doing even the most basic of mathematics performing poorly.
Please nerf anyone else as I am too lazy to learn how to best play the game or do any of the above.
I remember a time when Cruisers were completely ****e, nobody flew them and poor Engi captains in Engi ships were at the bottom of the heap - tanks in a game in which tanks are pointless . A2B DOFFs finally gave them some teeth.
As has been explained numerous times, A2B is by far not the most powerful configuration in the game. Tac in Tac is still godalmighty, like it should be. But atl least other caps in other ships have ways of doing decent DPS now, unlike when the game first launched.
Yeah if you actually need to rely on aux2batt, in any cruiser to complete pve material, than you are really a horrid player.
The ships can complete any pve mission, without having to use such a ridiculous skill.
And in pvp, there is nothing wrong with a tank, in fact it helps to have one.
So what you are spouting, is utter TRIBBLE.
It needs nerfing, and defending it so desperately, makes it clearly the point of needing so.
And in pvp, there is nothing wrong with a tank, in fact it helps to have one.
So what you are spouting, is utter TRIBBLE.
It needs nerfing, and defending it so desperately, makes it clearly the point of needing so.
in pvp, cruisers cant tank adequately and be built for DPS at the same time, without AtB. and they cant evade fire ether, out HPSing the incoming DPS is the only way they survive. without AtB they are the real glass cannons of the game.
a tank in PVP is the most worthless thing to have, if its not mainly healing others and just happens to be a tank because its an outgoing heal boat. but some greedy super tank is the most worthless thing possible pve or pvp. like usual, you are full of utter TRIBBLE.
in pvp, cruisers cant tank adequately and be built for DPS at the same time, without AtB. and they cant evade fire ether, out HPSing the incoming DPS is the only way they survive. without AtB they are the real glass cannons of the game.
a tank in PVP is the most worthless thing to have, if its not mainly healing others and just happens to be a tank because its an outgoing heal boat. but some greedy super tank is the most worthless thing possible pve or pvp. like usual, you are full of utter TRIBBLE.
Fine, cruisers might need the aux2bat cheese. How can you defend people using aux2bat on escorts and (the worst I've seen to date last night) a Palisade?
Fine, cruisers might need the aux2bat cheese. How can you defend people using aux2bat on escorts and (the worst I've seen to date last night) a Palisade?
Fine, cruisers might need the aux2bat cheese. How can you defend people using aux2bat on escorts and (the worst I've seen to date last night) a Palisade?
a palisade? lol i guaranty you the best sci ship builds do NOT have anything draining their aux down to 5 at any time. same with healers. these are the 2 strongest, best at their job things in the game, and AtB does not help them. this is why tech doffs needs to stay unnerfed, because no replacement balancing for AtB could so selectively buff underpowered escorts and cruiser, without buffing sci ships and healers.
escorts are also easy to defend, the most dangerous and hard to fight against are NOT using AtB. you cant use AtB and AtD together worth a TRIBBLE at the same time. people pretty often try AtB/AtD builds, but all it really results in is the extra hull resistance, minor pull resistance that just specing into dampeners also gives you, with no noticeable turn or speed boost. not to mention the crappy 1 AtB uptime on team and tac skills. 2AtB will give you better survivability and more DPS every time.
anyway, AtD all by itself with high aux, and the tholian rep traits as gravy, puts you into a whole new untouchable mobility tier. with the right ship, bug especially, you can have 80+ turn rate, and be in and out of fireing ranges of anything that can shoot at you in the time it takes to make 1 weapon cycle to complete. wile an AtB escort has as good or better tac skill up time then a COM/LTC tac escort, and durability basically the same as an AtB cruiser, you move like a carrier compared to these high aux AtD escorts, and with that rep trait dont hit as hard. that tanking buff the AtB gives you? well, with a dedicated healer around, its a moot point. so the AtD escort can match AtB escort tanking in team play, and fly circles around your AtB escort, making it basically impossible to duel against. AtB wont boost your mobility, your ability to get cannons on target, and your ability to avoid other's cannon fireing arcs.
its funny how AtB is not op anywhere you can use it effectively, and useless on so many things that are already good and well balanced. its like anyone who doesn't like it or wants to nerf it, hates balance, hates the game, and hates every ship being useable :rolleyes: have fun pvping when every ship that approaches the bug in power gets cut off at the knees because they cant AtB anymore. have fun seeing no cruisers except the odyssey, only on healing duty. have fun trying to use a tac cruiser, getting sci'ed to death and having bad up time on your clears and half the HPS potential you had wile AtD escorts take you out on 1 pass. have fun only having maybe 10 ships (nonwarbird) anyone would be caught dead using wile trying to be competitive.
this is pvp reality, not pve. most pve targets don't move much, are immobile, or at most pose little challenge to your piloting. AtB might be were its at in pve, but thats because PVE is TERRIBLE, built wrong, and caters to players with 0 skill, with 0 desire to improve.
Aux2batt isn't needed by any ship for pve, and as far as pvp is concerned, that TRIBBLE shoot is way overdue for real balance, not generic over the top exploit style skills like aux2batt.
Again if needs nerfing as it stands, otherwise it needs not benefit from a 30% board wide cd reduction, and something else needs be applied for those so called sub-optimal builds.
Most of the threads I've seen asking for a nerf to Aux2Batt are, in actuality, concerned with the Technicians that grant the cooldown bonus (with the 3 Space Active Duty Officer slots being either 50% or 60% of your available space, depending on whether the +1 unlock is purchased or not) rather than Aux2Batt itself. Personally, I like my Aux power... it does nice things like power heals, improve Plasma DoTs and Gravimetric Torpedo damage, fuel T4 Nukata Rep traits, add +3% damage from my [Amp] core, etc. Aux2Batt... doesn't. Maybe it could be looked at another way:
Would you be willing to use boff space on Aux2Batt if Technicians didn't work anymore? Why? Why not?
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
Aux2batt isn't needed by any ship for pve, and as far as pvp is concerned, that TRIBBLE shoot is way overdue for real balance, not generic over the top exploit style skills like aux2batt.
Aux2Bat isn't optimal for most ships, but brings certain weaker ships up. The guy right above yours just pointed out Aux2Bat isn't good for PvP either.
Surely you mean the vast majority of the sto community...right?
I don't know who your "vast majority are. But even if it's the 'vast majority" of people who post on the forums, that's a fraction of a percent of the total number of STO players. And therefore means little.
Aux2Bat isn't optimal for most ships, but brings certain weaker ships up. The guy right above yours just pointed out Aux2Bat isn't good for PvP either.
So why nerf what doesn't need nerfing?
So why defend something that doesn't need defending?
If the top dps ships can get by without aux2batt, than it shouldn't really matter if it gets a fix, or even nerfed.
I am sorry, but ships of no kind need rely on aux2batt, to perform in pve, that is just a fact!
And if you want to play pvp, well just like you mentioned it isn't needed there either, so again why defend something that isn't needed?
It needs fixed, or completely nerfed, like so many other exploitable powers have, and will.
So why defend something that doesn't need defending?
If the top dps ships can get by without aux2batt, than it shouldn't really matter if it gets a fix, or even nerfed.
I am sorry, but ships of no kind need rely on aux2batt, to perform in pve, that is just a fact!
And if you want to play pvp, well just like you mentioned it isn't needed there either, so again why defend something that isn't needed?
It needs fixed, or completely nerfed, like so many other exploitable powers have, and will.
its you and your lot that needs to stop talking about nerfing it, if we all agree its fine and not needed. see, we dont have to tell you your wrong, if you don't open your mouth in the first place.
I don't know who your "vast majority are. But even if it's the 'vast majority" of people who post on the forums, that's a fraction of a percent of the total number of STO players. And therefore means little.
Right...the majority of sto players who at one time brought their special 2k, designed for pve, snowflake build into a pvp match and got stomped...
Or the same majority seeing the super high dps guys go to town and assume a2b (due to forum complaints by the same type of people) thus having a witch-hunt.
So why defend something that doesn't need defending?
If the top dps ships can get by without aux2batt, than it shouldn't really matter if it gets a fix, or even nerfed.
I am sorry, but ships of no kind need rely on aux2batt, to perform in pve, that is just a fact!
And if you want to play pvp, well just like you mentioned it isn't needed there either, so again why defend something that isn't needed?
It needs fixed, or completely nerfed, like so many other exploitable powers have, and will.
Did you literally not read the post you're responding to?
Aux2Bat isn't optimal for most ships, but brings certain weaker ships up.
It doesn't need to be nerfed because the top ships in PvE and PvP don't use it.
It shouldn't be nerfed because weaker ships, specifically Eng-heavy cruisers with very few Tactical abilities, need it to bring them up to par.
This of course, depends on your definition of what it up to par. Some of us prefer teammates with more than 2k DPS.
It shouldn't be nerfed because weaker ships, specifically Eng-heavy cruisers with very few Tactical abilities, need it to bring them up to par.
Or people could accept that if they select a certain ship that has certain overall stats that it is meant to be played a different way...and if one is looking to do something else, they should look at a different ship to do it.
Or people could accept that if they select a certain ship that has certain overall stats that it is meant to be played a different way...and if one is looking to do something else, they should look at a different ship to do it.
I build my ships the way I want...they work because "stuff"
Comments
My old Dragon-build Sci Oddy, before Fleet holdings existed, could do that as well. La de da. :rolleyes:
A cruiser is the pinacle of tankiness, and you have to work really hard to get destroyed in one. Any fresh lv50 char with no gear can sit and take the pounding of a mere tac cubus. If anything, that only shows how laughable "Endgame"-Content is.
And that aside: Flying a Ody on a2b gimps that ship beyound understanding, especially dps-wise.
Got news for ya pal but even with ATB out of the picture this is possible.
Nerf it already Cryptic so people like the OP can stop their incessant posting on the subject.
ATB complainers do not understand these concepts Jeff, they just use Aux2Bat as a scapegoat for the broader issue of power-creep. They cannot possibly fathom that we were OP long before ATB. Rather hilarious actually. The guys who 2-manned NWS used garden variety CSV escorts if I recall correctly.
Valdus | Charn | Costello | Typhus | Thyran
Been playing for over 1000 days, but only paying attention for several hundred
Thanks in advance.
Yeah, it would be different if he said he killed the Tac Cube in a few seconds, but merely surviving and killing it through attrition? My Oddy did that when it was still using 8 Retrofit Phasers from the Connie. I did barely any DPS, but boy could I tank everything.
I don't know, but since at least October 25, 2011, the date it was added to the STO Wiki.
tech doffs launched with the doff system, but the skill AtB was on the EPt system cooldown, not the AtD/AtS system cooldown. it sort of sucked like that, you could only run 1 other EPt skill with it, or none if you wanted 2 AtB. in almost any case a damage control doff build, dragon or whatever the hell pve'rs call it, was better.
i remember clearly, the same patch that added the 1000 day veteran ships also moved AtB to the AtB/AtD cooldown system were it belongs. about an hour after the patch drooped, i had my new vet ships and was experimenting with 2 AtB builds, my mind was blown. no one could have been running it before i was, thats a little feather in my cap. i kept it sort of quite for a wile but let other PVPers know about it, but it was 6 to 9 months before i saw pve'rs talking about it on the forums after that.
All you do is make older Z-Store ships useless and all the people QQing and Crying about it will zero in on something else to QQ and Cry about.
Very same people afterwards, a couple of weeks later, will probably start complaining " Escorts Online /SIGH " well... again!
This is clearly showing the mindset, that you cannot achieve anything unless you use it, and that furthers the reason it needs nerfing.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
It does make things useless.
I remember a time when Cruisers were completely ****e, nobody flew them and poor Engi captains in Engi ships were at the bottom of the heap - tanks in a game in which tanks are pointless . A2B DOFFs finally gave them some teeth.
As has been explained numerous times, A2B is by far not the most powerful configuration in the game. Tac in Tac is still godalmighty, like it should be. But atl least other caps in other ships have ways of doing decent DPS now, unlike when the game first launched.
That pretty much sums up the Aux2Bat whiners.
Surely you mean the vast majority of the sto community...right?
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
Yeah if you actually need to rely on aux2batt, in any cruiser to complete pve material, than you are really a horrid player.
The ships can complete any pve mission, without having to use such a ridiculous skill.
And in pvp, there is nothing wrong with a tank, in fact it helps to have one.
So what you are spouting, is utter TRIBBLE.
It needs nerfing, and defending it so desperately, makes it clearly the point of needing so.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
in pvp, cruisers cant tank adequately and be built for DPS at the same time, without AtB. and they cant evade fire ether, out HPSing the incoming DPS is the only way they survive. without AtB they are the real glass cannons of the game.
a tank in PVP is the most worthless thing to have, if its not mainly healing others and just happens to be a tank because its an outgoing heal boat. but some greedy super tank is the most worthless thing possible pve or pvp. like usual, you are full of utter TRIBBLE.
Fine, cruisers might need the aux2bat cheese. How can you defend people using aux2bat on escorts and (the worst I've seen to date last night) a Palisade?
Why do we need to defend sub-optimal builds?
a palisade? lol i guaranty you the best sci ship builds do NOT have anything draining their aux down to 5 at any time. same with healers. these are the 2 strongest, best at their job things in the game, and AtB does not help them. this is why tech doffs needs to stay unnerfed, because no replacement balancing for AtB could so selectively buff underpowered escorts and cruiser, without buffing sci ships and healers.
escorts are also easy to defend, the most dangerous and hard to fight against are NOT using AtB. you cant use AtB and AtD together worth a TRIBBLE at the same time. people pretty often try AtB/AtD builds, but all it really results in is the extra hull resistance, minor pull resistance that just specing into dampeners also gives you, with no noticeable turn or speed boost. not to mention the crappy 1 AtB uptime on team and tac skills. 2AtB will give you better survivability and more DPS every time.
anyway, AtD all by itself with high aux, and the tholian rep traits as gravy, puts you into a whole new untouchable mobility tier. with the right ship, bug especially, you can have 80+ turn rate, and be in and out of fireing ranges of anything that can shoot at you in the time it takes to make 1 weapon cycle to complete. wile an AtB escort has as good or better tac skill up time then a COM/LTC tac escort, and durability basically the same as an AtB cruiser, you move like a carrier compared to these high aux AtD escorts, and with that rep trait dont hit as hard. that tanking buff the AtB gives you? well, with a dedicated healer around, its a moot point. so the AtD escort can match AtB escort tanking in team play, and fly circles around your AtB escort, making it basically impossible to duel against. AtB wont boost your mobility, your ability to get cannons on target, and your ability to avoid other's cannon fireing arcs.
its funny how AtB is not op anywhere you can use it effectively, and useless on so many things that are already good and well balanced. its like anyone who doesn't like it or wants to nerf it, hates balance, hates the game, and hates every ship being useable :rolleyes: have fun pvping when every ship that approaches the bug in power gets cut off at the knees because they cant AtB anymore. have fun seeing no cruisers except the odyssey, only on healing duty. have fun trying to use a tac cruiser, getting sci'ed to death and having bad up time on your clears and half the HPS potential you had wile AtD escorts take you out on 1 pass. have fun only having maybe 10 ships (nonwarbird) anyone would be caught dead using wile trying to be competitive.
this is pvp reality, not pve. most pve targets don't move much, are immobile, or at most pose little challenge to your piloting. AtB might be were its at in pve, but thats because PVE is TERRIBLE, built wrong, and caters to players with 0 skill, with 0 desire to improve.
What sub-optimal builds?
Aux2batt isn't needed by any ship for pve, and as far as pvp is concerned, that TRIBBLE shoot is way overdue for real balance, not generic over the top exploit style skills like aux2batt.
Again if needs nerfing as it stands, otherwise it needs not benefit from a 30% board wide cd reduction, and something else needs be applied for those so called sub-optimal builds.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Would you be willing to use boff space on Aux2Batt if Technicians didn't work anymore? Why? Why not?
Aux2Bat isn't optimal for most ships, but brings certain weaker ships up. The guy right above yours just pointed out Aux2Bat isn't good for PvP either.
So why nerf what doesn't need nerfing?
OP you really need to look over some of the builds coming from the guys in the 20 and 30 K DPS channels.
Cryptic has an eagle view they see the guys doing 20 and 30k do without A2B.
Really who are we to take away someone's fun just because they use a game mechanic.( that some people don't like)
Whats wrong with this post is what would be next the entire line of Scimitars.
Because I know people in my fleet who can do over 20k DPS without A2B.
All you need is EPW with an attack pattern cool down DOFF as it will get you more DPS than A2B.
What's really interesting is how do know the people cleaning house are not doing it with EPW.
I don't know who your "vast majority are. But even if it's the 'vast majority" of people who post on the forums, that's a fraction of a percent of the total number of STO players. And therefore means little.
So why defend something that doesn't need defending?
If the top dps ships can get by without aux2batt, than it shouldn't really matter if it gets a fix, or even nerfed.
I am sorry, but ships of no kind need rely on aux2batt, to perform in pve, that is just a fact!
And if you want to play pvp, well just like you mentioned it isn't needed there either, so again why defend something that isn't needed?
It needs fixed, or completely nerfed, like so many other exploitable powers have, and will.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
its you and your lot that needs to stop talking about nerfing it, if we all agree its fine and not needed. see, we dont have to tell you your wrong, if you don't open your mouth in the first place.
Right...the majority of sto players who at one time brought their special 2k, designed for pve, snowflake build into a pvp match and got stomped...
Or the same majority seeing the super high dps guys go to town and assume a2b (due to forum complaints by the same type of people) thus having a witch-hunt.
Cmon man...you know it to be true
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
Nah, there's been dev comments about not being happy with it...it would be more of the undead horse list.
Did you literally not read the post you're responding to?
Aux2Bat isn't optimal for most ships, but brings certain weaker ships up.
It doesn't need to be nerfed because the top ships in PvE and PvP don't use it.
It shouldn't be nerfed because weaker ships, specifically Eng-heavy cruisers with very few Tactical abilities, need it to bring them up to par.
This of course, depends on your definition of what it up to par. Some of us prefer teammates with more than 2k DPS.
Or people could accept that if they select a certain ship that has certain overall stats that it is meant to be played a different way...and if one is looking to do something else, they should look at a different ship to do it.
I build my ships the way I want...they work because "stuff"
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree