If you're able to tank with 10k, then your teammates are below par.
Again, different definitions of what is par.
Not quite, they just simply chose to not care, about bringing enough healing.
How are you able to say that your ship does 10k DPS if you're not using a parser? If you're using a parser, how do you not know what statistics I'm talking about?
I use 2 parsers to get my measurements, and it provides little information IMO anyways, outside of a chance baseline, unless said performance is done solo.
In other words, when was the last time anyone has ever posted a 80k dps run, with absolutely no help?
30second fight, thats more spike than dps Get a parse over a whole stf. While DHCs can do very good dps, and hold 25k especially in cse, dps still is a measurement for an entire scenario.
30second fight, thats more spike than dps Get a parse over a whole stf. While DHCs can do very good dps, and hold 25k especially in cse, dps still is a measurement for an entire scenario.
Dps over an entire scenario, isn't a clear and precise measurement for all given scenarios.
The depicted parse, was to show again how much dps a cheesy, and cheap costing build can deliver to a single opponent if they are held in place, so as to take full advantage of [ACC] overflow.
It wasn't intended to show anything besides this!
DPS whether spike, or prolonged is still a dps measurement.
Well, anyone knowing about mechanics should know that. 10k dps is something you stumble upon after reaching lv50 these days.
Still, a 30sec fight doesnt show anything about a2b, and isnt that the theme of this thread?
10k dps, is not something you just stumble upon.
You actually need make an effort to get that level of dps.
Considering the average pve pug, does not meet this level of performance.
Yes, there are those who pve, and do 10k or higher dps, but the average player doesn't.
And, sidetracking wasn't my intention neither, it was to point out that it was said, that I do not use a parser, as if I do not know what I am talking about.
Here is me, showing how a single opponent being bombarded with cheese, can net you high dps.
And this is with a non-aux2batt, no bfaw build.
Just good old fashion cannons + tons of cheese consoles, and sci holds.
I actually can't see that picture. Upload it to imgur? I hate Photobucket, it's such a POS, not every computer/browser can open their images.
In any case, when we say "DPS" it's commonly referring to "DPS in ISE". If you say you do 25k DPS, it's not sitting in front of SB234, it's ISE - that's the standard.
I actually can't see that picture. Upload it to imgur? I hate Photobucket, it's such a POS, not every computer/browser can open their images.
In any case, when we say "DPS" it's commonly referring to "DPS in ISE". If you say you do 25k DPS, it's not sitting in front of SB234, it's ISE - that's the standard.
Click the little icon, on the bottom right of picture, and it will increase the size (guessing you are unfamiliar with photobucket, or a different/better computer, or OS).
Because, I am not going to create an account, just so you can view it from this site.
And, again just because a few player's, act like this is supposed to be the golden standard, as to how measuring dps is done, doesn't mean it actually is!!!
Plain and simple, and that was not in sb234, it was an CSE run.
Click the little icon, on the bottom right of picture, and it will increase the size (guessing you are unfamiliar with photobucket, or a different/better computer, or OS).
It still doesn't work: http://imgur.com/6FD5m2n
Roughly 25% of the time I can see the image someone links on PB, most of the time I can't. I have no idea what the link difference is.
Imgur doesn't require you to create an account, I certainly don't. There should be an "Upload Images" button at the top left.
Plain and simple, and that was not in sb234, it was an CSE run.
You misunderstand me, I'm trying to point out that the basis for measuring a build's DPS is ISE. The reason ISE is used as a measure of DPS is because it has low variation in results while generally being long enough not to simply be a spike.
30s is considered a spike because cooldowns aren't coming into play in that situation. If you can cut your cooldowns in half then you can obviously do more damage, but if you're only able to fire your abilities the same number of times as before because the testing window is low, it doesn't actually show anything.
When I (or most people) say "10k DPS" or "25k DPS", it's over the duration of ISE.
I have a 10k difference in damage in my various parses of CSE, from around 15k to 5k, in the exact same ship doing exactly the same thing. The Standard Deviation is huge. Comparatively, the dozens upon dozens of parses in ISE result in a StDev of only around 10%.
I looked up the statistics again and I've discovered I was wrong about the averages. Out of 11761 players:
DPS... Number dealing more than that but less than the next bracket
1000... 904
2000... 1543
3000... 3286
5000... 3678
10000.. 1124
15000.. 516
20000.. 484
30000.. 161
40000.. 50
54030.. 14
82900.. 1
It looks like the Mode is around 6k, the Median is around 7.5k, and the Mean is around 7.6k.
If we prune the top 15, the mean drops to 7.5k. Prune all 226 members of the 30k club and we get a mean of 7k.
Good to know my Guramba can do 300k dps... considering that is a number a single buffed javeline can do. Start before, stop after, and ya have a pretty nice dps-number following your logic.
And the dps-channels are accused of manipulating numbers, talk about irony...
Good to know my Guramba can do 300k dps... considering that is a number a single buffed javeline can do. Start before, stop after, and ya have a pretty nice dps-number following your logic.
And the dps-channels are accused of manipulating numbers, talk about irony...
I never said they manipulate numbers, I don't know where that came in from, but is irrelevant.
And a single spike of 300k, will not give you exactly a 300k dps rating, unless it was the only attack recorded.
My parse, was over the course of the life of a pve boss, something with far greater HP, than any mere player.
I mean after all, if spike damage wasn't considered a form of dps measurement, than what purpose would it serve, in figuring out how well a vaper performs in that split few secs?
...but yeah, I also got that impression from the back and forth. I wasn't sure who was trolling who, though, since both halves were heading towards the "But I'm right!" direction. Then again both parties could simply be strong believers in their own opinions... which is part of why I tried to shift back towards an honest discussion of the terminology being used, mechanics at work, and the relative positions of the abilities in the game. While I don't agree with everything shadowwraith77 has to say, I'm now pretty darn sure there's no trolling on that side...
If you aren't in favor of nerfing Aux2Batt w/Technicians could you please not troll the other guys; it doesn't help, and it makes those of us who agree with you look bad. Some of their points are perfectly valid, too, and opinions are... well... opinions.
With each passing day I wonder if I stepped into an alternate reality. The Cubs win the world series. Donald Trump is President. Britain leaves the EU. STO gets a dedicated PvP season. Engineers are "out of control" in STO.
Guess it's just that mix of misinformation, misrepresentation of information, and some mockery thrown in that irked me...
...and as far as it being matters of opinions, some of it is akin to going out in the middle of the day with the sun shining and not a cloud in sight...while saying it's raining in the middle of the night.
Comments
I use 2 parsers to get my measurements, and it provides little information IMO anyways, outside of a chance baseline, unless said performance is done solo.
In other words, when was the last time anyone has ever posted a 80k dps run, with absolutely no help?
http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/hh527/technotranceism/f4cdb93e-d75b-459b-9397-8bbeb68b92ee_zps71a01bde.png
You should be familiar with this parser!
Here is me, showing how a single opponent being bombarded with cheese, can net you high dps.
And this is with a non-aux2batt, no bfaw build.
Just good old fashion cannons + tons of cheese consoles, and sci holds.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Dps over an entire scenario, isn't a clear and precise measurement for all given scenarios.
The depicted parse, was to show again how much dps a cheesy, and cheap costing build can deliver to a single opponent if they are held in place, so as to take full advantage of [ACC] overflow.
It wasn't intended to show anything besides this!
DPS whether spike, or prolonged is still a dps measurement.
They are just factored into different scenarios.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Still, a 30sec fight doesnt show anything about a2b, and isnt that the theme of this thread?
10k dps, is not something you just stumble upon.
You actually need make an effort to get that level of dps.
Considering the average pve pug, does not meet this level of performance.
Yes, there are those who pve, and do 10k or higher dps, but the average player doesn't.
And, sidetracking wasn't my intention neither, it was to point out that it was said, that I do not use a parser, as if I do not know what I am talking about.
When in fact I do make use of 2 parsers!
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
I actually can't see that picture. Upload it to imgur? I hate Photobucket, it's such a POS, not every computer/browser can open their images.
In any case, when we say "DPS" it's commonly referring to "DPS in ISE". If you say you do 25k DPS, it's not sitting in front of SB234, it's ISE - that's the standard.
Click the little icon, on the bottom right of picture, and it will increase the size (guessing you are unfamiliar with photobucket, or a different/better computer, or OS).
Because, I am not going to create an account, just so you can view it from this site.
And, again just because a few player's, act like this is supposed to be the golden standard, as to how measuring dps is done, doesn't mean it actually is!!!
Plain and simple, and that was not in sb234, it was an CSE run.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Roughly 25% of the time I can see the image someone links on PB, most of the time I can't. I have no idea what the link difference is.
Imgur doesn't require you to create an account, I certainly don't. There should be an "Upload Images" button at the top left.
You misunderstand me, I'm trying to point out that the basis for measuring a build's DPS is ISE. The reason ISE is used as a measure of DPS is because it has low variation in results while generally being long enough not to simply be a spike.
30s is considered a spike because cooldowns aren't coming into play in that situation. If you can cut your cooldowns in half then you can obviously do more damage, but if you're only able to fire your abilities the same number of times as before because the testing window is low, it doesn't actually show anything.
When I (or most people) say "10k DPS" or "25k DPS", it's over the duration of ISE.
I have a 10k difference in damage in my various parses of CSE, from around 15k to 5k, in the exact same ship doing exactly the same thing. The Standard Deviation is huge. Comparatively, the dozens upon dozens of parses in ISE result in a StDev of only around 10%.
I looked up the statistics again and I've discovered I was wrong about the averages. Out of 11761 players:
DPS... Number dealing more than that but less than the next bracket
1000... 904
2000... 1543
3000... 3286
5000... 3678
10000.. 1124
15000.. 516
20000.. 484
30000.. 161
40000.. 50
54030.. 14
82900.. 1
It looks like the Mode is around 6k, the Median is around 7.5k, and the Mean is around 7.6k.
If we prune the top 15, the mean drops to 7.5k. Prune all 226 members of the 30k club and we get a mean of 7k.
Looks like "par" should be 7k DPS (in ISE).
And the dps-channels are accused of manipulating numbers, talk about irony...
I never said they manipulate numbers, I don't know where that came in from, but is irrelevant.
And a single spike of 300k, will not give you exactly a 300k dps rating, unless it was the only attack recorded.
My parse, was over the course of the life of a pve boss, something with far greater HP, than any mere player.
I mean after all, if spike damage wasn't considered a form of dps measurement, than what purpose would it serve, in figuring out how well a vaper performs in that split few secs?
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Well if tech doffs, could effect this ability to such a degree as aux2batt, than yes it would need fixing!
http://imgur.com/mdX3XkK
Here this better?
If not, oh well can't help you.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Yup, works fine.
I see what his complaint was about though. You'd get more useful results hitting up SB234 than that loot pi
There... are... three... threads!
No, really:
Aux2Bat, What it is and why it needs fixing.
The real reasons to nerf a2b
The real reasons to keep a2b the way it is
...but yeah, I also got that impression from the back and forth. I wasn't sure who was trolling who, though, since both halves were heading towards the "But I'm right!" direction. Then again both parties could simply be strong believers in their own opinions... which is part of why I tried to shift back towards an honest discussion of the terminology being used, mechanics at work, and the relative positions of the abilities in the game. While I don't agree with everything shadowwraith77 has to say, I'm now pretty darn sure there's no trolling on that side...
If you aren't in favor of nerfing Aux2Batt w/Technicians could you please not troll the other guys; it doesn't help, and it makes those of us who agree with you look bad. Some of their points are perfectly valid, too, and opinions are... well... opinions.
Then again, that's just my opinion. :P
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
...and as far as it being matters of opinions, some of it is akin to going out in the middle of the day with the sun shining and not a cloud in sight...while saying it's raining in the middle of the night.