Building a ship is up to you, however game mechanics is up to the Dev's.
Either way, no one skill should provide that kind of cross the board cd reduction + add power to 3 subs, and not give a horrendous disadvantage, and by horrendous that means extremely bad, and not the easily mitigated drop in auxpwr bug the skill has currently.
No other skill offers this much advantage, and that is not game balancing.
so much armchair obsession with what it does on paper :rolleyes:
cruisers cant move quickly or turn well, they are sitting ducks. but, especially after the team skill system cooldown removal, AtB increases a tac cruisers terrible durability to compensate, a fix thats not just making cruisers move like an escort too. the game was escorts online because they dealt the most damage, and they were the hardest to kill becase of borg set proc heals and speed tanking. tac cruisers of the day had worse damage, and no speed tanking, so they sucked. now the 2 ship types are about even, thanks to AtB.
as long as the bug exists, no AtB escort is op ether. your still never going to have the mobility potential it has, and the enhanced survivability it gives an AtB escort is moot if there's a dedicated healer around.
They are only underpowered, because the Dev's chose to allow them to be, they can come up with another means to allow them to be a bit more competitive, and not this cheesy solution to unbalanced skill spamming.
there really is nothing that could be a more elegant solution to imbalance then AtB the way ti is now. but people have already made up thier minds to hate it on some ignorant principle, with an actual understanding of it similar to the OP's.
eng heavy ships are the weakest, so have a doff that lets you use your excess eng skills to stretch the few tac and sci skills you have, at the cost of valuable aux power. actually on paper, its a genius solution.
They are only underpowered, because the Dev's chose to allow them to be, they can come up with another means to allow them to be a bit more competitive, and not this cheesy solution to unbalanced skill spamming.
so its unbalanced skill spamming if i use a2b to get 2xtt, 2xfaw & 2xbeta? damn that, all ships that can be build non-a2b and are able to use double abilities SHOULD BE NERVED THIS INSTANT!!! RIGHT NOW OR I UNINSTALL THE GAME!!!
xD
sorry man but neather is a2b imba nor is it the preferred build for damageoutput except maybe on engi-captains with engi-ships. if u can fly a ship without a2b and still have all the abilities u need, then u should fly it without a2b... if u want to...
I would like to point out a few things. The OP is correct t in his overall argument, and I noticed a few replies that really need to be answered.
Yes, aux2batt, when used with the mentioned 3 purple doffs, is game breaking. Its a fact. Any ability that would allow you to reactivate powers like BFAW, BO, CSV, CRF, etc is so OP'd that it makes everything else useless in comparison.
Jeez you'd think there had never been such an ability in games from the year dot called "Hasten" (or something with a similar function).
Faster recharge of abilities is one of the time-honoured methods of increasing DPS in videogames. To not have that function available in STO would have been TRIBBLE, and frankly a bit weird. And to not take advantage of it if one's aim is to maximize DPS on certain types of ship, and with certain types of playstyle and tactics that suit the method, would be TRIBBLE too, for that matter.
Believe it or not, devs do deliberately put things in games so you can achieve high DPS if you min-max for it.
Yes, any Hasten ability has to be treated carefully because it can be OP, and while one might argue that it's borderline OP in STO, it's not really all that bad. It has downsides that make it not attractive for any and every build.
In fact, IIRC, there's a thread in these forums devoted to disabusing people who think it's a magic bullet of that very notion. It's more situational, ship-and-ability dependent than people think. For one thing, it's more of a bump for cruiser-type ships - as Escort type ships already have ways of achieving much higher DPS (for Tac-in-Tac especially, using Go Down Fighting - which is much closer to OP than Aux2Bat, though still not really all that bad).
I must reiterate what I've had occasion to mention several times in threads recently. People often misunderstand the problem of OP-ness or power creep. It's not a problem for a game if a few people by building and investing carefully, and playing skillfully, are able to achieve ultra high DPS. Players who build carefully and min-max are supposed to be able to do that, the devs allow for it and take account of it.
It only becomes a problem if lots of people are able to do it pretty much thoughtlessly by using a certain combo or trick. IOW, from the devs poit of view, it's a problem relating to the mass of players levelling at a rate that messes up the way they've designed progression in the game. That's what the devs care about, not about a few people who've invested time and built carefully, being uber (well, they care about it a bit, and keep an eye on it, but it's far less of a problem than if the mass of players were able to achieve high DPS without any effort).
But if you use combat tracker in STFs, you will notice that there are tons of builds that have Aux2Bat in them that achieve DPS that's only in the upper range of "good" (e.g. around 10k or so, maybe 12k). That means that these players don't really understand the famous Aux2Bat build, or aren't utilizing it properly. They think it's a magic bullet, but it's not, you have to know how to use it to push higher than 10k; and then to get the really ultra-uber DPS (80k was the highest the last time I checked the league table), you have to use other tricks entirely.
And since a slapped-together all-greens DHC Escort can achieve 8k-10k without even breaking a sweat (I just did this recently on my Tac that I hadn't played for ages), I don't think that it's that big a problem.
I love how people will try to defend, such an easily OP ability such as this, it shows they do not want it to be changed, but the fact of the matter is, it does need changing badly.
It is by far, the most OP cd reduction ability in this game.
I love how people will try to defend, such an easily OP ability such as this, it shows they do not want it to be changed, but the fact of the matter is, it does need changing badly.
It is by far, the most OP cd reduction ability in this game.
Basically it's 12/2 or (12-2)x2 to get perfect gcd former or near perfect gcd latter.
You could strain your 6 doffs to try and add a "pseudo" extra 3 abilities. But you only need 3 technicians to achieve 10 at near perfect.
Really, the argument is nearly 9 at 6 doffs or nearly 10 at 3 doffs.
The best dps boat is non a2b, and the top pvpers use bugs and or ships with like bug set ups.
Honestly...it almost sounds like...to complain about a2b is to have a bad player calling hax on a good player
Maybe it's late...but I think I've convinced myself a2b isn't as far ahead in the game ad I once thought it was
I love how people will try to defend, such an easily OP ability such as this, it shows they do not want it to be changed, but the fact of the matter is, it does need changing badly.
It is by far, the most OP cd reduction ability in this game.
i love how people think everything would be MORE balanced without tech doffs. yes it is the best cooldown reducer in the game, but nothing you use it on becomes op.
even if it was op, anything tac related gets $hit on so hard by science its not even funny. pve hereos have no idea
Maybe it's late...but I think I've convinced myself a2b isn't as far ahead in the game ad I once thought it was
They have been quietly "nerfing" it for a year, introducing alternatives that make use of high aux, and doffs that can grant cooldowns to specific abilities. A modern non aux2bat ship will have a few less power options because some must be doubled but it will have a higher damage thanks to plasmonic leech+ amp core+ tholian rep AND endurance thanks to aux2damp + doff.
I hope this gradual process is the "nerf" that Geko was talking about in Las Vegas and not some hamfisted "fix" that will send the whole mechanic into the same hell that tricobalt mines are.
i love how people think everything would be MORE balanced without tech doffs. yes it is the best cooldown reducer in the game, but nothing you use it on becomes op.
even if it was op, anything tac related gets $hit on so hard by science its not even funny. pve hereos have no idea
Compared to the most basic builds, it is by far OP that it isn't even funny, and if you agree it isn't OP, than it shouldn't bother you if they gave it a nerfing.
Compared to the most basic builds, it is by far OP that it isn't even funny, and if you agree it isn't OP, than it shouldn't bother you if they gave it a nerfing.
ya, thats the kind of logic you have to expect from the oblivious AtB hatter
Compared to the most basic builds, it is by far OP that it isn't even funny, and if you agree it isn't OP, than it shouldn't bother you if they gave it a nerfing.
Well, anything is OP compared to "the most basic builds" - that isn't a valid reason for a nerf.
And also, as it isn't OP, it doesn't require nerfing.
isn't it time swords are getting nerved, its a must with ground tac now... nerv the damm things, nerv everything that we like to use, hypo's also op...
Compared to the most basic builds, it is by far OP that it isn't even funny, and if you agree it isn't OP, than it shouldn't bother you if they gave it a nerfing.
You might want to come out of the cave, its 2014, the a2b-era is long gone. A second-rate shipbuild isnt a problem, and something that makes a second-rate shipbuild isnt OP.
If they decide to nerf it actively (someone mention already the passive nerfs), for us damn Elitists there wont be a change.
A2B is OP simply because it allows you to have constant uptime on all of your Boff powers.
Yes there are other ways to get superior DPS but for most players the A2B route is the simplest way to get ridiculous over the top damage output. You need barely any skill to be able to run an A2B build, just aquire the doffs and skills and you are set to go. You can literaly just spam your button pushing and abilites until you kill things.
Sure all games have abilities to speed up your ability to use special powers or put out damage, but the difference with A2B builds is that they exploit the system to have 100% uptime of abilities.
If that isn't breaking the game then I don't know what is.
Simply limiting its ability to be run almost 100% of the time would be a simple fix. I've no problem with a cruiser needing to use A2B to be effective, but it shouldn't allow the captain to have his other boff powers running all the time.
A2B is OP simply because it allows you to have constant uptime on all of your Boff powers.
Yes there are other ways to get superior DPS but for most players the A2B route is the simplest way to get ridiculous over the top damage output. You need barely any skill to be able to run an A2B build, just aquire the doffs and skills and you are set to go. You can literaly just spam your button pushing and abilites until you kill things.
Sure all games have abilities to speed up your ability to use special powers or put out damage, but the difference with A2B builds is that they exploit the system to have 100% uptime of abilities.
If that isn't breaking the game then I don't know what is.
Simply limiting its ability to be run almost 100% of the time would be a simple fix. I've no problem with a cruiser needing to use A2B to be effective, but it shouldn't allow the captain to have his other boff powers running all the time.
Just my 0.02 EC.
I'm just a PvE player, so forgive me if i'm not so over the top high level expert super PvP player, than some other ppl.
A2Bat, makes all aux based abilities meaningless, even some traits.
That means you literally turn a cruiser into a glass cannon.
(your only hull heal is Eng team, i think that says it all.)
Sure some folks are doing 20-30k DPS but most of them don't even use A2Bat at all.
A2Bat only gives low tac/heavy engineering ships the option to raise their tactical capabilites in exchange for a LOT of healing. Everyone trying to tank a STRONG enemy should know what i am talking about.
The main "problem" is that in a premade team everyone can become specialst by min/maxing, A2Bat pushes this to the extreme. BUT if you go solo or in a PUG you need a much better balance between offensive and defensive and some ships simply need more tac stations or a lower CD.
I think the main problem of A2Bat applies mostly to Escorts capable of using A2Bat. But without a team backing them up they toast, as soon a they get shot at.
On the other hand if cryptic releases their solo quese missions, much more balanced builds will become desirable, because there's no one healing you.
So i don't really see the need to "fix" something that's not broken.
But if A2Bat where OP, then why not simply remove the power buff, while keeping the aux drain? I think that would be balance enough.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
A2B is OP simply because it allows you to have constant uptime on all of your Boff powers.
That is exactly what every escort can do(at least for tactical Abilities, and those are the important ones), hence escorts are OP?
Global CD also affects Aux2Bat, meaning you cant spam faw/beta constantly, they still have 10/5s global CD, like they have if you would use 2 of them.
A2Bat, makes all aux based abilities meaningless, even some traits.
Not necessarily, as far as abilities go it just means that you have to be careful when you hit aux2batt or when you hit any aux-modified ability.
That means you literally turn a cruiser into a glass cannon.
FIGURATIVELY :0
(your only hull heal is Eng team, i think that says it all.)
ET is one of the strongest hull heals in the game and it's not based on auxiliary power, and with aux2batt you can use it more often than you normally would.
I don't think that's what you're saying tho :c
To be honest, I find the aux2batt builds powerful, but not OP. They're a way for eng heavy cruisers to make use of limited tactical abilities. Sure, there are some escorts and warbirds that can use them... but why would you want to?
As far as your glass cannon argument is concerned, well, I don't have trouble staying alive when my eng flies his Fleet Sovereign. The problem with the glass cannon argument is people forget that you can tank in this game. Everyone keeps going on about how damage is king but damage means nothing when you're waiting to respawn. My eng stays alive and does damage, just not as much damage as a tac would in the same ship.
Cryptic already said they were going to fix a2b. If I had to guess and probably the easiest fix is to make to it would be to limit the amount of tech doffs that could be used. But you shouldn't be worried about a2b players they tend to have very limited heal abilities. In most instances they can dish it but not take it.
Cryptic already said they were going to fix a2b. If I had to guess and probably the easiest fix is to make a2b not trigger the doffs and not count as a battery. But you shouldn't be worried about a2b players they tend to have very limited heal abilities. In most instances they can dish it but not take it.
please can you get your facts straight befor you post.......
To be honest, I find the aux2batt builds powerful, but not OP.
I like this middle ground. I can also identify with the OP's frustration, but do have non-A2b ships that can easily keep up the pace or provide a useful role in elite STF's.
It certainly has made my trusty old Excelsior a lot of fun. Another ship using A2b with BFAW feels OP but it didn't take too long for it to become mundane to fly. Strangely enough I find myself agreeing to an extent with those arguing for it but also with those advocating an adjustment to it.
Question: When did aux2batt builds first appear in the game?
...
ET is one of the strongest hull heals in the game and it's not based on auxiliary power, and with aux2batt you can use it more often than you normally would.
Strange, i always found eng. team rather weak, compared to the two other hull heals.
Even Aux2Structural was more useful since it also give a all damage resistance for 10 seconds and you can use it much more often than Eng. Team.
Anyway, the main reason i try to aviod A2B is because it keeps your resistances at the low end of the bar, while A2S and A2D are extremely helpful. Also without aux power HE doesn't help much either.
Sure one could use Polarize Hull, but most ships i know don't have enough sci slots to spare.
To be honest. i don't quite understand where the problem lies. A2B is intended to give Engineering heavy ships some options. Just because some Escorts also use it and become OP (which isn't A2B fault IMO) shouldn't be a reason to nerf it for everyone.
I think there are 2 way to solve that problem:
1. restrict it to Cruisers only (would cause MANY problems IMO)
2. make it more like A2S:
Example:
Rank I: Lieutenant
CD: 15 sec
-30 Auxiliary Power Setting for 10 sec
Allowed Technicans: 1
Rank II: Lt. Commander
CD: 15 sec
-45 Auxiliary Power Setting for 10 sec
Allowed Technicans: 2
Rank III: Commander
CD: 15 sec
-60 Auxiliary Power Setting for 10 sec
Allowed Technicans: 3
So only engineering Heavy ships would really benefit from A2B.
Just my 0.02EC.
"...'With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured...the first thought forbidden...the first freedom denied--chains us all irrevocably.' ... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on, we're all damaged. I fear that today--"
- (TNG) Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie
Strange, i always found eng. team rather weak, compared to the two other hull heals.
Even Aux2Structural was more useful since it also give a all damage resistance for 10 seconds and you can use it much more often than Eng. Team.
Eng Team heals more than aux2sif, but has a longer cooldown. On average aux2sif comes out ahead because you can cast it every 15 seconds. But aux2sif relies on aux power for its efficacy, the higher the power the more it heals and the more resistance you get. It has a lower cooldown, but eng team's cooldown can be reduced with doffs and with aux2batt. Since aux2batt negates aux power anyway, and since resistances have both diminishing returns and other ways of being acquired, eng team becomes effective replacement.
Eng team also repairs any disabled subsystem. This can be crucial if your shields go down.
And I used it before it was cool :P (i.e. they rubbed out the shared cooldown between all team abilities)
Look if I can take a tac oddy with no armor consoles, nor armor skill points, and sit there pounding a tac cube to death, without dying once, all while using aux2batt.
Look if I can take a tac oddy with no armor consoles, nor armor skill points, and sit there pounding a tac cube to death, without dying once, all while using aux2batt.
Than you better well believe the skill is OP.
Heck I only use 1 defensive trait to boot.
Zomg, just did the same thing last night in my avenger without a2b...nerf skills?
As far as your glass cannon argument is concerned, well, I don't have trouble staying alive when my eng flies his Fleet Sovereign. The problem with the glass cannon argument is people forget that you can tank in this game. Everyone keeps going on about how damage is king but damage means nothing when you're waiting to respawn. My eng stays alive and does damage, just not as much damage as a tac would in the same ship.
Eh, my Engineer does an average of 21k (in ISE) in a FACR without Aux2Bat, and I never die either. I considered Aux2Bat when I was building it, but I didn't see how switching to Aux2Bat would help it in any way.
Look if I can take a tac oddy with no armor consoles, nor armor skill points, and sit there pounding a tac cube to death, without dying once, all while using aux2batt.
Than you better well believe the skill is OP.
Heck I only use 1 defensive trait to boot.
I did that in my Sci Oddy, without Aux2Bat or any any defensive traits, though I have Rank 3 in the two armor skills. If you think that's impressive, then you lack the knowledge base to determine what's OP or not. Heck, sarcasmdetector's 30k Oddy build doesn't use Aux2Bat either.
Eh, my Engineer does an average of 21k (in ISE) in a FACR without Aux2Bat, and I never die either. I considered Aux2Bat when I was building it, but I didn't see how switching to Aux2Bat would help it in any way.
I'd be curious to see your build, if you'd like to share it.
I hopped on the aux2batt bandwagon for my eng just to see what all the fuss was about. I found it an enjoyable change of pace. But out of my eight characters, only two use aux2batt. It's not the be-all end-all of builds.
Eh, my Engineer does an average of 21k (in ISE) in a FACR without Aux2Bat, and I never die either. I considered Aux2Bat when I was building it, but I didn't see how switching to Aux2Bat would help it in any way.
I did that in my Sci Oddy, without Aux2Bat or any any defensive traits, though I have Rank 3 in the two armor skills. If you think that's impressive, then you lack the knowledge base to determine what's OP or not. Heck, sarcasmdetector's 30k Oddy build doesn't use Aux2Bat either.
I laugh because I don't even use any fleet gear, to get the desire performance I listed.
The tac cube would have been dead, even quicker if I had the tac consoles you list alone.
There is no lack of knowledge, I simply state a simple minded tac oddy (about 1/10-1/100 the cost of your builds), running axu2batt, can quite literally sit, and destroy a tac cube, all while drinking a soda in the other hand.
People are all about it not needing nerfing, but at the same time cannot say it isn't a completely cheap game mechanic.
This tells me they simply don't want it nerfed, because they are possibly strong user's of this ability.
If PO was as equally powerful, than there would be a form of balance, but one skill grating such cd reduction power, is by far an OP ability.
I've always thought that A2B, the boff skill (if doff buff is to remain) should be moved up in tier, so it requires LTC or Com engy slot to use, making it a heavy engy ship only type thing, which it should be. Heavy engy ships rarely have much in the way of tac options, and doffed A2B helps fix that.
Without the doff, A2B is useless, it's why the doff was invented. I'd like to see A2B the boff skill re-envisaged before nerfing the doff. For an engineer or engy heavy ship, A2B skill by itself is basically worthless, especially when you have EPtX that buffs a single subsystem in a far superior way with no down sides.
What if A2B skill drained engines instead? Cruisers aren't typically going fast anyway.
Doffed Photonic officer to be honest could use a buff, at least in terms of reactivation. 50% up time of the skill at best kinda sucks.
What if A2B skill drained engines instead? Cruisers aren't typically going fast anyway.
That would ironically make it unbalanced. By draining aux power, A2B sacrifices aux-healing abilities and any passive bonuses you get from high aux (Nukara, AMP warp cores, Captain's abilities etc). That's its downside, and it's not nothing even though you can find alternatives to aux-based heals or aux-based traits etc. Take that away and you actually would make it OP, especially because cruisers don't typically rely on their speed or their manoeuvrability.
I'm also not sure about restricting it to LtC and C boff ranks, because frankly the ability isn't that powerful. But, that's potentially a compromise solution I can live with. Aux2batt, by itself, isn't worth slotting. It is only worth slotting when you have the doffs. But it's a huge investment in doffs to make the most of it. Three purple technicians is 50-60% of your available doff slots, depending on whether you've got the spire doff upgrade or not. That's huge. To get them off the exchange is pricey, to get them anyway else is time consuming. That's 3 doffs you can't put towards any other purpose but the c/d reduction. Thing is, if you change the ability to the point where those doffs aren't giving you the c/d reduction, there isn't any point in using it.
If the ability is truly OP, then fine tune how the doffs work in relation to the c/d reduction. But if you get rid of it, then you might as well get rid of the ability altogether. See, I'd rather put EPtW3 or Shields3 in the LTC slot, and if you get rid of the low-level Aux2batt1 then well why bother using it at all, hello Purple DCEs with BFAW EWOs. Oh but now I have full aux, so I'm getting the passive bonuses from Nukara rep.
And yeah, PO is underwhelming in comparison. So... buff PO then.
Aux2Bat, in itself, is rather harmless, as all it does is drain Aux power to provide a rather minimal buff to the 3 other power levels for a brief period. Seems fair, drain 1 to buff the others.
Aux2Bat has a darker side, when paired with 3 Purple DOffs (Not specifying which ones, trawl the exchange to find out for yourself if you really want to break the game, this abusive trick needs removing, NOT more people doing it) that provide BOff power cooldowns on use of a Battery. The problem here is, Aux2Bat also triggers this DOff proc to fire, allowing for someone to, for example, fire BFaW, then immediately fire Aux2Bat, resetting their BFaW timer to about 10 seconds, AKA the same time it takes for the effect to wear off.
This DOff proc is fair when used with a battery, as you not only lose the battery itself, but also suffer a long, unchanged cooldown before being able to fire another battery, Aux2Bat however, is NOT consumed on use, and can be refired in at least 30 seconds (not sure if it is affected by the cooldown decrease from the DOffs it fires).
In essence, Aux2Bat is like photonic officer for sci BOffs, except much better, as it can be fired more often and has a much better effect (quicker cooldowns AND a power level buff).
I would like a developer to confirm to me whether this somewhat overpowered trick is intentional, or whether it's something that isn't brought up much (Looking at you PvPers, you abuse it more than anyone to keep your shields at max and weapons on special fire (e.g. BFaW, CFR, etc)).
I know this thread may have been posted before, as well as garner a lot of flame and troll comments.
The reason I bring this up is because I am sick of going into Elite Borg STFs and being able to do absolutely nothing because someone abusing Aux2Bat's BOff cooldown comes in and does over double the damage of anyone else on the team. It sucks the fun out of it.
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Comments
so much armchair obsession with what it does on paper :rolleyes:
cruisers cant move quickly or turn well, they are sitting ducks. but, especially after the team skill system cooldown removal, AtB increases a tac cruisers terrible durability to compensate, a fix thats not just making cruisers move like an escort too. the game was escorts online because they dealt the most damage, and they were the hardest to kill becase of borg set proc heals and speed tanking. tac cruisers of the day had worse damage, and no speed tanking, so they sucked. now the 2 ship types are about even, thanks to AtB.
as long as the bug exists, no AtB escort is op ether. your still never going to have the mobility potential it has, and the enhanced survivability it gives an AtB escort is moot if there's a dedicated healer around.
there really is nothing that could be a more elegant solution to imbalance then AtB the way ti is now. but people have already made up thier minds to hate it on some ignorant principle, with an actual understanding of it similar to the OP's.
eng heavy ships are the weakest, so have a doff that lets you use your excess eng skills to stretch the few tac and sci skills you have, at the cost of valuable aux power. actually on paper, its a genius solution.
xD
sorry man but neather is a2b imba nor is it the preferred build for damageoutput except maybe on engi-captains with engi-ships. if u can fly a ship without a2b and still have all the abilities u need, then u should fly it without a2b... if u want to...
Jeez you'd think there had never been such an ability in games from the year dot called "Hasten" (or something with a similar function).
Faster recharge of abilities is one of the time-honoured methods of increasing DPS in videogames. To not have that function available in STO would have been TRIBBLE, and frankly a bit weird. And to not take advantage of it if one's aim is to maximize DPS on certain types of ship, and with certain types of playstyle and tactics that suit the method, would be TRIBBLE too, for that matter.
Believe it or not, devs do deliberately put things in games so you can achieve high DPS if you min-max for it.
Yes, any Hasten ability has to be treated carefully because it can be OP, and while one might argue that it's borderline OP in STO, it's not really all that bad. It has downsides that make it not attractive for any and every build.
In fact, IIRC, there's a thread in these forums devoted to disabusing people who think it's a magic bullet of that very notion. It's more situational, ship-and-ability dependent than people think. For one thing, it's more of a bump for cruiser-type ships - as Escort type ships already have ways of achieving much higher DPS (for Tac-in-Tac especially, using Go Down Fighting - which is much closer to OP than Aux2Bat, though still not really all that bad).
I must reiterate what I've had occasion to mention several times in threads recently. People often misunderstand the problem of OP-ness or power creep. It's not a problem for a game if a few people by building and investing carefully, and playing skillfully, are able to achieve ultra high DPS. Players who build carefully and min-max are supposed to be able to do that, the devs allow for it and take account of it.
It only becomes a problem if lots of people are able to do it pretty much thoughtlessly by using a certain combo or trick. IOW, from the devs poit of view, it's a problem relating to the mass of players levelling at a rate that messes up the way they've designed progression in the game. That's what the devs care about, not about a few people who've invested time and built carefully, being uber (well, they care about it a bit, and keep an eye on it, but it's far less of a problem than if the mass of players were able to achieve high DPS without any effort).
But if you use combat tracker in STFs, you will notice that there are tons of builds that have Aux2Bat in them that achieve DPS that's only in the upper range of "good" (e.g. around 10k or so, maybe 12k). That means that these players don't really understand the famous Aux2Bat build, or aren't utilizing it properly. They think it's a magic bullet, but it's not, you have to know how to use it to push higher than 10k; and then to get the really ultra-uber DPS (80k was the highest the last time I checked the league table), you have to use other tricks entirely.
And since a slapped-together all-greens DHC Escort can achieve 8k-10k without even breaking a sweat (I just did this recently on my Tac that I hadn't played for ages), I don't think that it's that big a problem.
It is by far, the most OP cd reduction ability in this game.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Basically it's 12/2 or (12-2)x2 to get perfect gcd former or near perfect gcd latter.
You could strain your 6 doffs to try and add a "pseudo" extra 3 abilities. But you only need 3 technicians to achieve 10 at near perfect.
Really, the argument is nearly 9 at 6 doffs or nearly 10 at 3 doffs.
The best dps boat is non a2b, and the top pvpers use bugs and or ships with like bug set ups.
Honestly...it almost sounds like...to complain about a2b is to have a bad player calling hax on a good player
Maybe it's late...but I think I've convinced myself a2b isn't as far ahead in the game ad I once thought it was
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
i love how people think everything would be MORE balanced without tech doffs. yes it is the best cooldown reducer in the game, but nothing you use it on becomes op.
even if it was op, anything tac related gets $hit on so hard by science its not even funny. pve hereos have no idea
They have been quietly "nerfing" it for a year, introducing alternatives that make use of high aux, and doffs that can grant cooldowns to specific abilities. A modern non aux2bat ship will have a few less power options because some must be doubled but it will have a higher damage thanks to plasmonic leech+ amp core+ tholian rep AND endurance thanks to aux2damp + doff.
I hope this gradual process is the "nerf" that Geko was talking about in Las Vegas and not some hamfisted "fix" that will send the whole mechanic into the same hell that tricobalt mines are.
Compared to the most basic builds, it is by far OP that it isn't even funny, and if you agree it isn't OP, than it shouldn't bother you if they gave it a nerfing.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
ya, thats the kind of logic you have to expect from the oblivious AtB hatter
Well, anything is OP compared to "the most basic builds" - that isn't a valid reason for a nerf.
And also, as it isn't OP, it doesn't require nerfing.
You might want to come out of the cave, its 2014, the a2b-era is long gone. A second-rate shipbuild isnt a problem, and something that makes a second-rate shipbuild isnt OP.
If they decide to nerf it actively (someone mention already the passive nerfs), for us damn Elitists there wont be a change.
Yes there are other ways to get superior DPS but for most players the A2B route is the simplest way to get ridiculous over the top damage output. You need barely any skill to be able to run an A2B build, just aquire the doffs and skills and you are set to go. You can literaly just spam your button pushing and abilites until you kill things.
Sure all games have abilities to speed up your ability to use special powers or put out damage, but the difference with A2B builds is that they exploit the system to have 100% uptime of abilities.
If that isn't breaking the game then I don't know what is.
Simply limiting its ability to be run almost 100% of the time would be a simple fix. I've no problem with a cruiser needing to use A2B to be effective, but it shouldn't allow the captain to have his other boff powers running all the time.
I'm just a PvE player, so forgive me if i'm not so over the top high level expert super PvP player, than some other ppl.
A2Bat, makes all aux based abilities meaningless, even some traits.
That means you literally turn a cruiser into a glass cannon.
(your only hull heal is Eng team, i think that says it all.)
Sure some folks are doing 20-30k DPS but most of them don't even use A2Bat at all.
A2Bat only gives low tac/heavy engineering ships the option to raise their tactical capabilites in exchange for a LOT of healing. Everyone trying to tank a STRONG enemy should know what i am talking about.
The main "problem" is that in a premade team everyone can become specialst by min/maxing, A2Bat pushes this to the extreme. BUT if you go solo or in a PUG you need a much better balance between offensive and defensive and some ships simply need more tac stations or a lower CD.
I think the main problem of A2Bat applies mostly to Escorts capable of using A2Bat. But without a team backing them up they toast, as soon a they get shot at.
On the other hand if cryptic releases their solo quese missions, much more balanced builds will become desirable, because there's no one healing you.
So i don't really see the need to "fix" something that's not broken.
But if A2Bat where OP, then why not simply remove the power buff, while keeping the aux drain? I think that would be balance enough.
That is exactly what every escort can do(at least for tactical Abilities, and those are the important ones), hence escorts are OP?
Global CD also affects Aux2Bat, meaning you cant spam faw/beta constantly, they still have 10/5s global CD, like they have if you would use 2 of them.
FIGURATIVELY :0
ET is one of the strongest hull heals in the game and it's not based on auxiliary power, and with aux2batt you can use it more often than you normally would.
I don't think that's what you're saying tho :c
To be honest, I find the aux2batt builds powerful, but not OP. They're a way for eng heavy cruisers to make use of limited tactical abilities. Sure, there are some escorts and warbirds that can use them... but why would you want to?
As far as your glass cannon argument is concerned, well, I don't have trouble staying alive when my eng flies his Fleet Sovereign. The problem with the glass cannon argument is people forget that you can tank in this game. Everyone keeps going on about how damage is king but damage means nothing when you're waiting to respawn. My eng stays alive and does damage, just not as much damage as a tac would in the same ship.
please can you get your facts straight befor you post.......
and for your information here is the link to the aux2bat technician doffs
http://sto.gamepedia.com/Specialization:_Technician
pleas read and understand that it has nothing to do with BATTERY'S
I like this middle ground. I can also identify with the OP's frustration, but do have non-A2b ships that can easily keep up the pace or provide a useful role in elite STF's.
It certainly has made my trusty old Excelsior a lot of fun. Another ship using A2b with BFAW feels OP but it didn't take too long for it to become mundane to fly. Strangely enough I find myself agreeing to an extent with those arguing for it but also with those advocating an adjustment to it.
Question: When did aux2batt builds first appear in the game?
All agreed, but:
Strange, i always found eng. team rather weak, compared to the two other hull heals.
Even Aux2Structural was more useful since it also give a all damage resistance for 10 seconds and you can use it much more often than Eng. Team.
Anyway, the main reason i try to aviod A2B is because it keeps your resistances at the low end of the bar, while A2S and A2D are extremely helpful. Also without aux power HE doesn't help much either.
Sure one could use Polarize Hull, but most ships i know don't have enough sci slots to spare.
To be honest. i don't quite understand where the problem lies. A2B is intended to give Engineering heavy ships some options. Just because some Escorts also use it and become OP (which isn't A2B fault IMO) shouldn't be a reason to nerf it for everyone.
I think there are 2 way to solve that problem:
1. restrict it to Cruisers only (would cause MANY problems IMO)
2. make it more like A2S:
Example:
CD: 15 sec
-30 Auxiliary Power Setting for 10 sec
Allowed Technicans: 1
Rank II: Lt. Commander
CD: 15 sec
-45 Auxiliary Power Setting for 10 sec
Allowed Technicans: 2
Rank III: Commander
CD: 15 sec
-60 Auxiliary Power Setting for 10 sec
Allowed Technicans: 3
So only engineering Heavy ships would really benefit from A2B.
Just my 0.02EC.
Eng team also repairs any disabled subsystem. This can be crucial if your shields go down.
And I used it before it was cool :P (i.e. they rubbed out the shared cooldown between all team abilities)
Than you better well believe the skill is OP.
Heck I only use 1 defensive trait to boot.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Zomg, just did the same thing last night in my avenger without a2b...nerf skills?
Rather poor form there...
My PvE/PvP hybrid skill tree
Eh, my Engineer does an average of 21k (in ISE) in a FACR without Aux2Bat, and I never die either. I considered Aux2Bat when I was building it, but I didn't see how switching to Aux2Bat would help it in any way.
I did that in my Sci Oddy, without Aux2Bat or any any defensive traits, though I have Rank 3 in the two armor skills. If you think that's impressive, then you lack the knowledge base to determine what's OP or not. Heck, sarcasmdetector's 30k Oddy build doesn't use Aux2Bat either.
I hopped on the aux2batt bandwagon for my eng just to see what all the fuss was about. I found it an enjoyable change of pace. But out of my eight characters, only two use aux2batt. It's not the be-all end-all of builds.
This is the build I was using. The tactical BOffs are all Romulans with SRO. My DOffs are 3 Damage Control Engineers, 1 Zemok, 1 Dylrene, 1 Marion.
Results:
Fleet ACR - With Marion
ISE / Time
24,026.37 / 114.00
17,693.93 / 308.00
20,544.57 / 123.00
22,415.10 / 133.00
Mean : 21,169.99 / 169.50
StDev: 2,719.27 / 92.66
StDev: 12.84% / 54.67%
Fleet ACR - With Shield Distribution DOff instead of Marion
ISE / Time
15,407.98 / 314.00
13,391.65 / 297.00
18,020.75 / 139.00
15,411.70 / 307.00
Mean: 15,558.02 / 264.25
StDev: 1,897.55 / 83.79
StDev: 12.20% / 31.71%
I laugh because I don't even use any fleet gear, to get the desire performance I listed.
The tac cube would have been dead, even quicker if I had the tac consoles you list alone.
There is no lack of knowledge, I simply state a simple minded tac oddy (about 1/10-1/100 the cost of your builds), running axu2batt, can quite literally sit, and destroy a tac cube, all while drinking a soda in the other hand.
People are all about it not needing nerfing, but at the same time cannot say it isn't a completely cheap game mechanic.
This tells me they simply don't want it nerfed, because they are possibly strong user's of this ability.
If PO was as equally powerful, than there would be a form of balance, but one skill grating such cd reduction power, is by far an OP ability.
Praetor of the -RTS- Romulan Tal Shiar fleet!
Without the doff, A2B is useless, it's why the doff was invented. I'd like to see A2B the boff skill re-envisaged before nerfing the doff. For an engineer or engy heavy ship, A2B skill by itself is basically worthless, especially when you have EPtX that buffs a single subsystem in a far superior way with no down sides.
What if A2B skill drained engines instead? Cruisers aren't typically going fast anyway.
Doffed Photonic officer to be honest could use a buff, at least in terms of reactivation. 50% up time of the skill at best kinda sucks.
I'm also not sure about restricting it to LtC and C boff ranks, because frankly the ability isn't that powerful. But, that's potentially a compromise solution I can live with. Aux2batt, by itself, isn't worth slotting. It is only worth slotting when you have the doffs. But it's a huge investment in doffs to make the most of it. Three purple technicians is 50-60% of your available doff slots, depending on whether you've got the spire doff upgrade or not. That's huge. To get them off the exchange is pricey, to get them anyway else is time consuming. That's 3 doffs you can't put towards any other purpose but the c/d reduction. Thing is, if you change the ability to the point where those doffs aren't giving you the c/d reduction, there isn't any point in using it.
If the ability is truly OP, then fine tune how the doffs work in relation to the c/d reduction. But if you get rid of it, then you might as well get rid of the ability altogether. See, I'd rather put EPtW3 or Shields3 in the LTC slot, and if you get rid of the low-level Aux2batt1 then well why bother using it at all, hello Purple DCEs with BFAW EWOs. Oh but now I have full aux, so I'm getting the passive bonuses from Nukara rep.
And yeah, PO is underwhelming in comparison. So... buff PO then.
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