Really all they've done is mapped out a player spectrum here...
On one end of the spectrum are the f2ps and the casuals... The 'loyalists'... Pretty much they sign on... Do what they like to do... don't spend much money unless they see something they cant live without... but they'll flat out just never leave... For these people the question is 'if the person is going to be here for the next 5 years come hell or high water... how much of a hurry are they going to be in to hit max crafting?'
And the answer to that question is 'they wouldnt complain if it took a year, because they're not in a hurry and they know they'll be here next year. If it takes a year and its free... They're on board.'
The other side of the spectrum is the 'MUST BE BEST NOW' contingent. The action junkies... The most pyrrhic and fervent players who's soul cries out for maximum visceral experience and a maximum sense of velocity. They want to be the best and by that measure best doesnt just mean best... It means best fastest... and ideally it means best fastest... at any cost!!!
For these people the question is 'where's the limit to at any cost?'... and we all know already how much zen/dilithium it could cost to max all schools in the minimum time. So there's your pricepoint.
The idea is that every single player will fall somewhere within this spectrum. If you're not going to touch the crafting system then this is simply a patch that doesn't apply to you... You have to at least be on the 'casual' end of the spectrum for cryptic to even be concerned with your opinion on it. If you're SOOO casual that a project a day for 200 days is too much for you... You're far too casual to care about... you're more interested in some other spectrum of content... however... if you're one iota less casual than that... You might give them some strata of cash to speed up the process, whatever strata that is.
In this case the loudest voices seem to be the ones who are so upset at the casual end of the spectrum that they'd rather be non participants... The only way the system fails is if *everyone in the game* is off the casual end of the spectrum. Cryptic is gambling that despite the fervent volume in these threads that at the end of the day this is not true. You may be upset today. But tomorrow you'll craft a little. and maybe 90 days from now it'll seem like just another thing you do each day... and maybe at some point during the 200 day process you'll get a paycheck... and your patience will wane a little... and thats money in the pocket.
Cryptic is betting that although you think you're off the far end of the spectrum, you're really more in the middle, and you just need some time to figure that out for yourself.
Why would I continue to support a game where the lead developer actively Trolls the players during a much hyped interview, and implements game systems that don't even make any attempt to disguise the ridiculous cash grab that they are?
Yeah i found that pretty cutting.. fair enough, there are many trolls in the forums out to generate bedlam, but, then there are far more people on here that have played and paid into the game for years. these people are genuinly upset, resulting in, right or wrong, some emotionally charged posts. the forums may not constitute the majority of players, but i do feel that overall, they do represent the majority of players.
using troll posts as an excuse to ignore all posts is pretty lame, but in the same way we sometimes direct our ire at the names and faces we know, regardless of fault, is the same maybe true from cryptics end. We only see the forward facing part of the business.. the game itself! quite clearly there is something going on, and as no one is talking to us, we are going to assume the worst, nature of the collective lol. id put money on there being some internal issues going on between cryptic and pwe, is this new direction forced? are the cryptic guys trying to protect the game in the background and we are just giving them grief? have they stopped caring and dropped into - just a job mentality?... who knows? either way, they should be proffesional enough to understand how this plays out, and read between the trolls.
i love this game, i dont want to see it go to the wall and i'll keep playing as long as i can, but it is getting so difficult trying to put good spins on the direction this game seems to be going, and i just cant see this crafting system as anything more than a blatant, in the face, cash grab. Do we not already willingly pump enough money into this game?
I was trying to shave the time off by doing multiple 20 hour projects in the same field,but after the patch you can no longer do.Why is it that they want this to take as long as possible? I'm getting tired of the constant grinds and repetition of doing the same things every day.
That would be the "hardcore" answer, to make up for the missing 20h projects by camping the computer and grinding hourly MK whatzits, yes. This is not an answer that people who don't want to engage in 24/7 campfests want to hear, though.
They should at least give us a web portal for crafting like NWO's. I wouldn't touch crafting there without it.
This is my Risian Corvette. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
I was trying to shave the time off by doing multiple 20 hour projects in the same field,but after the patch you can no longer do.Why is it that they want this to take as long as possible? I'm getting tired of the constant grinds and repetition of doing the same things every day.
There's been no explanation.
Even though it flies in the face of what they've already said they wanted from the system.
STO is a wonderful game, but it seems to go through little patches like this where someone at Cryptic thinks the best thing for the game is to really annoy players.
I was trying to shave the time off by doing multiple 20 hour projects in the same field,but after the patch you can no longer do.Why is it that they want this to take as long as possible? I'm getting tired of the constant grinds and repetition of doing the same things every day.
Being forced to log in multiple times each day to do the same old boring things is how they track their 'loyal fanbase' and every log in allows them to claim that many users per day - which keeps PWE supporting them.
It's pretty much the master goal of Zynga to keep Farmville running... I mean Cryptic to keep Farm Trek running. They don't care what you think as long as you log in and spend money.
I honestly can't understand what Cryptic thinks this is going to achieve, but then it follows, they never discuss anything that's inconvenient or controversial but soon as they more or less agree with us they're more than happy to discuss it.
It's like they've shoved this onto holodeck before we can even give opinions on tribble, that's just low and incredibly pathetic.
Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. - Euripides
I no longer do any Bug Hunting work for Cryptic. I may resume if a serious attempt to fix the game is made.
Looking for a new fleet? Drop by the in-game chat channel, "tenforwardforum", and say hi to the members of A Fleet Called Ten Forward (Fed) and The Orion Pirates (KDF). If you already have a fleet you are happy with, please feel free to drop by our chat channel if you are looking for a friendly bunch of helpful people to socialize with.
It's pretty much the master goal of Zynga to keep Farmville running... I mean Cryptic to keep Farm Trek running. They don't care what you think as long as you log in and spend money.
The whole crafting system makes me feel like I'm playing a Zynga game. On top, no matter what you craft, the XP rate is the same, so sticking with crafting 600XP vendor trash and selling all the blue and purple materials for EC seems to make the most sense which is stupid.
They should at least give us a web portal for crafting like NWO's. I wouldn't touch crafting there without it.
I was thinking about this also. If the long touted "Gateway" lets players interface to the DOFF system via mobile devices, it might be the feather in this old stinky knitted cap called the R&D system.
One thing really made me laugh, when starting ARC it shows a little panel "read about the exciting new features coming to STO in the latest patch notes" :eek: *insert rim shot sound*
A mate of mine in the fleet just worked out that at current exchange prices, crafting a Mk XII beam array for whatever quality will cost 12,400,000 ec and 4,500 dil, for one beam array. Of course you could run the missions but from the drop rates we've been getting it's like a dozen missions to one to get a chance for a box that may have 3-7 of a very rare material.
Ten soldiers wisely led will beat a hundred without a head. - Euripides
I no longer do any Bug Hunting work for Cryptic. I may resume if a serious attempt to fix the game is made.
A mate of mine in the fleet just worked out that at current exchange prices, crafting a Mk XII beam array for whatever quality will cost 12,400,000 ec and 4,500 dil, for one beam array. Of course you could run the missions but from the drop rates we've been getting it's like a dozen missions to one to get a chance for a box that may have 3-7 of a very rare material.
This may be the killer for me more than the time. Those mats prices have to come down. The borg space one is the only reasonable one - hmm wonder why.
But the unopened boxes need to be almost as cheap as batteries to make it workable. And they should be. People will still do the missions and if they don't want to craft just stick em on the exchange for 20,000. a million and 2 million for a box is a sad joke.
Also there seems still to be no answer or even a response about the craylon. Must we buy a chance at that one or will it be fixed?
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
If Cryptic/PWE allowed mobile access to the DOff system (including crafting), would we continue to argue this point?
Is this (or will this) upset create a business case for PWE to justify and sanction a mobility solution for DOff system access?
From the STOked interview last weekend, it was inferred that the new DOff system may be a step towards something for mobile platforms. Certainly, if you want to keep players loyal and engaged on STO, Cryptic/PWE would be wise to find a strong hook, like a mobile application.
And if a mobile app existed that allowed DOff system access, would players (aka customers) complain that the crafting grind is unreasonable?
Just food for thought...
I realize Cryptic/PWE has made NO formal announcement about such technologies or game features. But I wonder if mobile access to the DOff system would lessen the grind pain...
People will always complain especially with anything that is grindy and not enjoyable. A mobile app would be cool but it would be meaningless to me, for one, and my fleetmates all of whom do not use smart phones.
I have closed my wallet a long time ago, it's the only way to show Cryptic the middlefinger. i have reported a few dozen times serious game bugs, but still today not one of them is fixed. if they don't care about us, we should not care about them.
guys just stop these mfer's don't give two s**t's about you or me all they care about is how much they can milk you and line there pockets and wipe there a**'s with your money i wouldn't be surprised if they were trying to push us old dogs out to get a newer crowd in that spends more and has no idea of there stupidity just sayin:mad:
Sometimes i wonder if the devs are actual business people.
If you want to keep your customer base and let them buy your product continiously , you introduce new product with marginally increased product pricing.
(The frog in water- bring to boil slowly.)
What this smacks of is a forced playerbase of 200 to 334 days. Give your players (customers) a maybe product at the end of the 334 days, a possible way of you spending millions of zen/dil and
forcing only hard core gamers to stick around.
(Burn the frog dead instantly)
For Nine seasons theyve used the first method. Now suddenly the second method is introduced and no word on why. Using the age old excuse that it was never intended for the masses is what we call in our industry as "False advertising." You cannot step back and say, oops, i should have never put that there. You did put it out there, you did give us the abillity and then revoked it.
Kind of killing the cat then going on to say, I am sorry, we didnt mean to kill the cat.
Rethink your business model folks. This aint going to bring you zen buyers. This is going to kill your player base and split them into two neat camps. A small dedicated few and a large group that is going to read these forums and figure out that you MUST invest time to have awesome gear.
Whoever spikes your coffees or whatever you devs/cryptic/pwe are drinking when you are having meetings need to wake up. Sure fire way to TRIBBLE over your business plan is to totally go with the second kill the frog instantly method.
IM not going to rave about the days. Im a slow , time player. But we already discussed that a maybe product at the end of 334 days grinding is a secondary thing. Ill log on , slot something in r and d, just cause, hey the tab is there in my face when i talk to my doffs.
Other than that. You will not receive zen money from me on a MAYBE gambling crafting system.
Whether you think you are right or wrong, either way you are RIGHT.
@chrishellmax2363 - I think your analogy is off, but the overall message you're giving is pretty accurate. The idea is that when the frog is suddenly dumped into hot water, it'll jump out. If you raise it slowly, it won't notice and will eventually be boiled to death. This is actually what seems to be happening. Either 1) the frog jumps out when in contact w/ hot water immediately(aka those who will just not really care about crafting anymore and give up) or 2) those who enjoy pain will remain in the pot :P.
The fact that they seem to have implied ... admittedly I have not had a chance to listen to the whole POD cast... That there was no actionable feedback from the Tribble Thread...
Come on Rivera and Cryptic Employee's... really there seems to be tons of reasonable if not good feedback in that thread. Is the whole thing fun to read... not really. But to imply that no actionable feedback was given??
I have closed my wallet a long time ago, it's the only way to show Cryptic the middlefinger. i have reported a few dozen times serious game bugs, but still today not one of them is fixed. if they don't care about us, we should not care about them.
guys just stop these mfer's don't give two s**t's about you or me all they care about is how much they can milk you and line there pockets and wipe there a**'s with your money i wouldn't be surprised if they were trying to push us old dogs out to get a newer crowd in that spends more and has no idea of there stupidity just sayin:mad:
Really all they've done is mapped out a player spectrum here...
On one end of the spectrum are the f2ps and the casuals... The 'loyalists'... Pretty much they sign on... Do what they like to do... don't spend much money unless they see something they cant live without... but they'll flat out just never leave... For these people the question is 'if the person is going to be here for the next 5 years come hell or high water... how much of a hurry are they going to be in to hit max crafting?'
And the answer to that question is 'they wouldnt complain if it took a year, because they're not in a hurry and they know they'll be here next year. If it takes a year and its free... They're on board.'
The other side of the spectrum is the 'MUST BE BEST NOW' contingent. The action junkies... The most pyrrhic and fervent players who's soul cries out for maximum visceral experience and a maximum sense of velocity. They want to be the best and by that measure best doesnt just mean best... It means best fastest... and ideally it means best fastest... at any cost!!!
For these people the question is 'where's the limit to at any cost?'... and we all know already how much zen/dilithium it could cost to max all schools in the minimum time. So there's your pricepoint.
The idea is that every single player will fall somewhere within this spectrum. If you're not going to touch the crafting system then this is simply a patch that doesn't apply to you... You have to at least be on the 'casual' end of the spectrum for cryptic to even be concerned with your opinion on it. If you're SOOO casual that a project a day for 200 days is too much for you... You're far too casual to care about... you're more interested in some other spectrum of content... however... if you're one iota less casual than that... You might give them some strata of cash to speed up the process, whatever strata that is.
In this case the loudest voices seem to be the ones who are so upset at the casual end of the spectrum that they'd rather be non participants... The only way the system fails is if *everyone in the game* is off the casual end of the spectrum. Cryptic is gambling that despite the fervent volume in these threads that at the end of the day this is not true. You may be upset today. But tomorrow you'll craft a little. and maybe 90 days from now it'll seem like just another thing you do each day... and maybe at some point during the 200 day process you'll get a paycheck... and your patience will wane a little... and thats money in the pocket.
Cryptic is betting that although you think you're off the far end of the spectrum, you're really more in the middle, and you just need some time to figure that out for yourself.
If I understand your post,...it amounts to psychological Warfare.
Eventually the players will give Cryptic what they want...money. It doesn't matter which end of the spectrum they're on,...they will crack and open their wallets.
But what about players like me that hasn't given them a penny in 13 months?
One day Cryptic will be free from their Perfect World overlord. Until that day comes, they will continue to pamper the whales of this game, and ignore everyone that isn't a whale.
Comments
On one end of the spectrum are the f2ps and the casuals... The 'loyalists'... Pretty much they sign on... Do what they like to do... don't spend much money unless they see something they cant live without... but they'll flat out just never leave... For these people the question is 'if the person is going to be here for the next 5 years come hell or high water... how much of a hurry are they going to be in to hit max crafting?'
And the answer to that question is 'they wouldnt complain if it took a year, because they're not in a hurry and they know they'll be here next year. If it takes a year and its free... They're on board.'
The other side of the spectrum is the 'MUST BE BEST NOW' contingent. The action junkies... The most pyrrhic and fervent players who's soul cries out for maximum visceral experience and a maximum sense of velocity. They want to be the best and by that measure best doesnt just mean best... It means best fastest... and ideally it means best fastest... at any cost!!!
For these people the question is 'where's the limit to at any cost?'... and we all know already how much zen/dilithium it could cost to max all schools in the minimum time. So there's your pricepoint.
The idea is that every single player will fall somewhere within this spectrum. If you're not going to touch the crafting system then this is simply a patch that doesn't apply to you... You have to at least be on the 'casual' end of the spectrum for cryptic to even be concerned with your opinion on it. If you're SOOO casual that a project a day for 200 days is too much for you... You're far too casual to care about... you're more interested in some other spectrum of content... however... if you're one iota less casual than that... You might give them some strata of cash to speed up the process, whatever strata that is.
In this case the loudest voices seem to be the ones who are so upset at the casual end of the spectrum that they'd rather be non participants... The only way the system fails is if *everyone in the game* is off the casual end of the spectrum. Cryptic is gambling that despite the fervent volume in these threads that at the end of the day this is not true. You may be upset today. But tomorrow you'll craft a little. and maybe 90 days from now it'll seem like just another thing you do each day... and maybe at some point during the 200 day process you'll get a paycheck... and your patience will wane a little... and thats money in the pocket.
Cryptic is betting that although you think you're off the far end of the spectrum, you're really more in the middle, and you just need some time to figure that out for yourself.
And much as i enjoy your company, I'd rather be enjoying the game.
However, right now, it seems that a singular person inside cryptic just wants to do anything he can to annoy players.
Maybe he should be left in Las Vegas for a few months to decompress and find his wa.
Yeah i found that pretty cutting.. fair enough, there are many trolls in the forums out to generate bedlam, but, then there are far more people on here that have played and paid into the game for years. these people are genuinly upset, resulting in, right or wrong, some emotionally charged posts. the forums may not constitute the majority of players, but i do feel that overall, they do represent the majority of players.
using troll posts as an excuse to ignore all posts is pretty lame, but in the same way we sometimes direct our ire at the names and faces we know, regardless of fault, is the same maybe true from cryptics end. We only see the forward facing part of the business.. the game itself! quite clearly there is something going on, and as no one is talking to us, we are going to assume the worst, nature of the collective lol. id put money on there being some internal issues going on between cryptic and pwe, is this new direction forced? are the cryptic guys trying to protect the game in the background and we are just giving them grief? have they stopped caring and dropped into - just a job mentality?... who knows? either way, they should be proffesional enough to understand how this plays out, and read between the trolls.
i love this game, i dont want to see it go to the wall and i'll keep playing as long as i can, but it is getting so difficult trying to put good spins on the direction this game seems to be going, and i just cant see this crafting system as anything more than a blatant, in the face, cash grab. Do we not already willingly pump enough money into this game?
Did...you just quote yourself? Wow, that looks more fun, to be honest.
You bet it does!
I would too. There's just nothing right now to enjoy. :rolleyes:
In all honesty, yes it is. :P
They should at least give us a web portal for crafting like NWO's. I wouldn't touch crafting there without it.
There's been no explanation.
Even though it flies in the face of what they've already said they wanted from the system.
STO is a wonderful game, but it seems to go through little patches like this where someone at Cryptic thinks the best thing for the game is to really annoy players.
Being forced to log in multiple times each day to do the same old boring things is how they track their 'loyal fanbase' and every log in allows them to claim that many users per day - which keeps PWE supporting them.
It's pretty much the master goal of Zynga to keep Farmville running... I mean Cryptic to keep Farm Trek running. They don't care what you think as long as you log in and spend money.
It's like they've shoved this onto holodeck before we can even give opinions on tribble, that's just low and incredibly pathetic.
Here it is.
> <
> <
>
The whole crafting system makes me feel like I'm playing a Zynga game. On top, no matter what you craft, the XP rate is the same, so sticking with crafting 600XP vendor trash and selling all the blue and purple materials for EC seems to make the most sense which is stupid.
lol
I was thinking about this also. If the long touted "Gateway" lets players interface to the DOFF system via mobile devices, it might be the feather in this old stinky knitted cap called the R&D system.
One thing really made me laugh, when starting ARC it shows a little panel "read about the exciting new features coming to STO in the latest patch notes" :eek: *insert rim shot sound*
John
Centurion maximus92
12th Legion, Romulan Republic
12th Fleet
=\/= ================================ =\/=
This may be the killer for me more than the time. Those mats prices have to come down. The borg space one is the only reasonable one - hmm wonder why.
But the unopened boxes need to be almost as cheap as batteries to make it workable. And they should be. People will still do the missions and if they don't want to craft just stick em on the exchange for 20,000. a million and 2 million for a box is a sad joke.
Also there seems still to be no answer or even a response about the craylon. Must we buy a chance at that one or will it be fixed?
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
People will always complain especially with anything that is grindy and not enjoyable. A mobile app would be cool but it would be meaningless to me, for one, and my fleetmates all of whom do not use smart phones.
If you want to keep your customer base and let them buy your product continiously , you introduce new product with marginally increased product pricing.
(The frog in water- bring to boil slowly.)
What this smacks of is a forced playerbase of 200 to 334 days. Give your players (customers) a maybe product at the end of the 334 days, a possible way of you spending millions of zen/dil and
forcing only hard core gamers to stick around.
(Burn the frog dead instantly)
For Nine seasons theyve used the first method. Now suddenly the second method is introduced and no word on why. Using the age old excuse that it was never intended for the masses is what we call in our industry as "False advertising." You cannot step back and say, oops, i should have never put that there. You did put it out there, you did give us the abillity and then revoked it.
Kind of killing the cat then going on to say, I am sorry, we didnt mean to kill the cat.
Rethink your business model folks. This aint going to bring you zen buyers. This is going to kill your player base and split them into two neat camps. A small dedicated few and a large group that is going to read these forums and figure out that you MUST invest time to have awesome gear.
Whoever spikes your coffees or whatever you devs/cryptic/pwe are drinking when you are having meetings need to wake up. Sure fire way to TRIBBLE over your business plan is to totally go with the second kill the frog instantly method.
IM not going to rave about the days. Im a slow , time player. But we already discussed that a maybe product at the end of 334 days grinding is a secondary thing. Ill log on , slot something in r and d, just cause, hey the tab is there in my face when i talk to my doffs.
Other than that. You will not receive zen money from me on a MAYBE gambling crafting system.
That's a GOOD thing.
That Laughing Trendy moved to the Galactic News Network Right Here - http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=1146041
Come on Rivera and Cryptic Employee's... really there seems to be tons of reasonable if not good feedback in that thread. Is the whole thing fun to read... not really. But to imply that no actionable feedback was given??
My new sig till Cryptic fixes it....
If I understand your post,...it amounts to psychological Warfare.
Eventually the players will give Cryptic what they want...money. It doesn't matter which end of the spectrum they're on,...they will crack and open their wallets.
But what about players like me that hasn't given them a penny in 13 months?