OK, I fast-forwarded to the end of the thread, so I'll ask forgiveness in advance if I'm repeating someone here, but:
These materials don't exist anymore so why do we still have missions that:
"scan for mineral samples", "chroniton wave signatures", "data samples" , "radiation samples", etc, etc.
Most of the science mission need to be renamed for what they actually will produce, no? Failure to clean this up is an oversight typical of rushed work... :rolleyes:
Expendables Fleet: Andrew - Bajoran Fed Engineer Ken'taura - Rom/Fed Scientist Gwyllim - Human Fed Delta Tac Savik - Vulcan Fed Temporal Sci Dahar Masters Fleet: Alphal'Fa - Alien KDF Engineer Qun'pau - Rom/KDF Engineer D'nesh - Orion KDF Scientist Ghen'khan - Liberated KDF Tac Welcome to StarBug Online - to boldly Bug where no bug has been before!
STO player since November 2013
I honestly don't mind any of the major changes or updates since LoR, the only exception to this is the removal of the multiples of the same R&D school.
I don't care about rushing through it, I don't care about multiple schools, I don't care about low-level vendorcrap, I don't care about making millions of EC.
All I want is to be reasonable high in it for crafting a few guns I want. I don't even mind the randomness as I wouldn't have wasted all my materials and Dilithium on things I was never going to use.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Dilithium is capped at 8k refinement per day but with this system you can blow through a hundred thousand Dil in thirty minutes.
That means(In most F2P player cases at least) you have to buy Zen, convert it to Dil and keep going if you want to make fast progress.
With the ability to slot 2 or more high EXP projects at once that cuts into the potential profit that the new R&D system can bring in.
I'm aware that the game needs to make money to keep the lights on but this is just offensive.
You want players to spend more time and money in the game?
Give us missions worth running, hell I [layed through the romulan "faction" missions four times and STILL love them hat was some damn fun gameplay and good story, put some new cash/dil items in the stores.
Don't shove a 1/3 year grind down our throats to make the money.
You want to balance out the R&D grind a little more? Fine, throttle it but don't ****ing CHOKE it to death.
The more slots you unlock, the more projects you can run from a single school.
three slots, two from the school, five slots, three from the school and so on.
Keeps it from being abused while allowing the players to see real progress without felling forced to sink money into the system.
The developers had a golden opportunity here, in terms of the real fans of this game. Rarely do you get a chance, in an established MMO to overhaul one of your core systems. Do it too often and you run the risk of losing your core fans, ala SWG. Don't change often enough and game play gets boring, stale and too well documented. There are many examples in many other F2P games of how to do crafting so that it is both fun and rewarding. You want players to "engage with the system"? Then make it fun and interactive. This is nothing more than DOFF missions with 20 clicks and a time gate. (and the "optional" dilithium component) They chose to merge the R&D system with the duty officer system. A system which they have already conditioned me to use in a certain way. A way that involves setting up a mission and then letting it run, while I go off to focus on things I find fun and enjoyable. Perhaps if interactivity was one of their main goals with R&D, they shouldn't have made this choice.
This hits it on the nail for me. It's a missed opportunity. As someone who loves mixing up equipment and trying new builds, whether successful or not, an avenue for creating my own items with mods of my choosing has a lot of appeal. The grind already seemed daunting since level 15 appears to be the point where you can reasonably start crafting something worthwhile for your investment. A decent ways off for any school before. A much longer way off now on a system that does little to engage me. It's no real hardship to login and fire off the 20 hour mission. It's also not really fun.
Give me something interesting, unique, and of value to craft at each stage along the way and you might hook me. Are there any consumable ground and space items that can be crafted in the new system and are not found elsewhere in game?
No, I agree with you that the long-term crafting progression seems rather long to expect most people who are at endgame already to bother with it.
I said that me being able to unlock 3 slots in less than a week was too fast. They had to correct that, specifically.
For awhile now, Cryptic has tried to error on the side of being very conservative when they roll out a new feature. They'd rather start out slow and tweak things as they go. I believe that they will need to make changes and that they will make changes.
One of those changes should be accommodating crafting for players who are already at endgame. Not to hand them the whole Crafting system on a latinum platter, but to accelerate their progress to produce endgame level gear (Mk 10+, Rare) from one school without requiring a dilithium shortcut. There are a lot of ways they can do that without allowing this multiple 20 hr loophole.
Yes the lack of anything useful for high level characters at low level crafting is a MAJOR drawback to the system. If they allowed the crafting at low levels of various things people at level 50 would use then the system would be much better.
Lol! Oh, i get it now, no more speeding allowed for growth...unless you contribute Zen (converted into DI). What a normal commercial reaction that is. Sorry blokes, but covering your uncreativiness by grabbing more money from the gamers isn`t going to work in the long run..
Oops, that sounds like everyday management style in any now-a-days company...Make money fast and disappear over the horizon. Well, they got the last part right, we all want the fastest get away ship there is. But grinding for it another year? Don`t think so. Too bad, the R&D idea was pretty sound before this "fix".
Now, all i see is a community of very unhappy customers. I`m quite sure i read something about unhappy customers in the Ferengi rule book, but they don`t really read that at Cryptic. It`s for sale for a handfull of Lobi guys...worth reading
Yes the lack of anything useful for high level characters at low level crafting is a MAJOR drawback to the system. If they allowed the crafting at low levels of various things people at level 50 would use then the system would be much better.
Yeah, I'm not going to craft a bunch of Mk VI vendor trash and put it on the exchange with everyone else's Mk VI vendor trash they are also crafting for the same reason I am (XP progression).
The mats are better off being used elsewhere, or at the very least sold on the exchange. I'd at least get more money out of the mats than whatever green or blue piece of Mk VI garbage I'd create.
Yes you can. You just can't do the experience only 20hr project in all your slots.
ah ok, no worries then. I should be able to make 15 in about 35-40 days doing mark vi's then the 20.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
Since it takes a fraction of the time to get Reputation gear as it does to reach level 15 in a crafting school now, I predict that crafting will stall for several people somewhere between level's six and ten.
Fleet Gear takes even less time to get if you have a high enough level Starbase or are in one of the Public Service channels.
That's the thing that really bugs me the most about this. I have already completed rep, all 5, on 9 of 12 characters and gotten the "best" gear from them, the stuff I wanted, and spent the resources. I have also already completed each fleet holding to T5/3 with my fleet and bought most of the fleet items I want. Now, to finish just 1 crafting school I will have to grind 100 days. To build an Aegis set, 3 schools minimum, then get all 7, then build gear I want or fear that will sell well...NO! Not doing this
Player and forumite formerly known as FEELTHETHUNDER
As of today I no longer consider myself a player of STO.
It's a Free to Play Game, as such I can return any time, yadda yadda yadda.
This isn't exactly an "I quit" statement. It's an "I'm watching, just in case it ever gets any better" statement.
I can no longer in any way support the awful decisions that continue to be made, all of which as "Lead Designer" , AL "Captain Geko" Rivera must have a hand in signing off on.
I understand that he is a huge Trek fan, and so it astonishes me that he continues to drive this game in the directions he does.
Last year, Dan Stahl was moved to another project because as we were told at the time an EP suffers from burnout.
Geko has been at his position for 6 years now.
His ideas and way of doing things, combined with an obvious disdain for the playerbase that he cannot even hide during interviews, make this a place I'd rather not be.
Why would I continue to support a game where the lead developer actively Trolls the players during a much hyped interview, and implements game systems that don't even make any attempt to disguise the ridiculous cash grab that they are?
So, no I don't quit.
I love this game too much.
But I can't in all good conscience continue to log in and provide them one more tic on their metrics of # of people logging in.
For there to be a response, there first has to be feedback.
Now I know 40odd pages looks like feedback, but actually it doesn't exist.
Like the pages of tribble feedback on 9.5 that also doesn't exist.
As players, we have to accept that our notes, comments, cogently worded statements and carefully crafted criticisms don't exist.
Geko has spoken.
(and it's probably time for Geko to go. Wish I was going to STLV so I could tell him so)
I actually meant to today's debacle - i'm aware that people have been giving feedback for a while now.
I was at least expecting someone to drop by and defend the move by saying "now working as intended" but clearly today they're adopting the "silence is the best defence" approach.
You're just a machine. And machines can be broken.
I was at least expecting someone to drop by and defend the move by saying "now working as intended" but clearly today they're adopting the "silence is the best defence" approach.
No one will have the guts to confront the developers at Vegas. It'll be your typical kiss-a** crowd, especially with an expansion 2 unveil.
Probably but honestly, if I was there, I would be checking other stuff out at the convention moreso than hanging around the STO area. To be perfectly honest, if I was in Vegas the convention wouldn't be high on my list of priorities, just a sideshow that I would burn a few hours. :P
I actually meant to today's debacle - i'm aware that people have been giving feedback for a while now.
I was at least expecting someone to drop by and defend the move by saying "now working as intended" but clearly today they're adopting the "silence is the best defence" approach.
What can they say?
The changes fly in the face of things both Geko and Hawk have said before.
WAI can't work....because their intent was already known and they moved away from that.
I love how everyone is passing and moaning knowing fully well NOTHING is going to change. PWE doesn't care what we think, nor will any of our feedback actually be considered. Even common sense (like keeping crafting levels close to equal to char levels) isn't rational. To them, players are cash cows NOT people. I think if they wanted out opinions they'd ask.
My Old Blog about things that could and should have been added when I wrote it. Not sure what I want to do with it now. I'll just keep it available now that most of it is outdated.
ah ok, no worries then. I should be able to make 15 in about 35-40 days doing mark vi's then the 20.
That would be the "hardcore" answer, to make up for the missing 20h projects by camping the computer and grinding hourly MK whatzits, yes. This is not an answer that people who don't want to engage in 24/7 campfests want to hear, though.
That would be the "hardcore" answer, to make up for the missing 20h projects by camping the computer and grinding hourly MK whatzits, yes. This is not an answer that people who don't want to engage in 24/7 campfests want to hear, though.
No, no, I'm not that hardcore. Let's say midcore. I'm talking about doing 3 sets of 3 or 4 hourlies (takes a total of 5 minutes of real time). So I just have to open STO for a couple minutes 3 times a day. If that's the case I can deal with this. Note that this pace is still a little slower than running 3 and later 4 20 hours, but not by all that much.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
That would be the "hardcore" answer, to make up for the missing 20h projects by camping the computer and grinding hourly MK whatzits, yes. This is not an answer that people who don't want to engage in 24/7 campfests want to hear, though.
I thought they learned their lesson from the grindaversary. Nope.
Comments
These materials don't exist anymore so why do we still have missions that:
"scan for mineral samples", "chroniton wave signatures", "data samples" , "radiation samples", etc, etc.
Most of the science mission need to be renamed for what they actually will produce, no? Failure to clean this up is an oversight typical of rushed work... :rolleyes:
Savik - Vulcan Fed Temporal Sci
Dahar Masters Fleet: Alphal'Fa - Alien KDF Engineer Qun'pau - Rom/KDF Engineer D'nesh - Orion KDF Scientist Ghen'khan - Liberated KDF Tac
Welcome to StarBug Online - to boldly Bug where no bug has been before!
STO player since November 2013
I don't care about rushing through it, I don't care about multiple schools, I don't care about low-level vendorcrap, I don't care about making millions of EC.
All I want is to be reasonable high in it for crafting a few guns I want. I don't even mind the randomness as I wouldn't have wasted all my materials and Dilithium on things I was never going to use.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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The rep grind is bad enough but now this.
This is a blatant cash grab.
How?
Dilithium finishes the projects immediately.
Dilithium is capped at 8k refinement per day but with this system you can blow through a hundred thousand Dil in thirty minutes.
That means(In most F2P player cases at least) you have to buy Zen, convert it to Dil and keep going if you want to make fast progress.
With the ability to slot 2 or more high EXP projects at once that cuts into the potential profit that the new R&D system can bring in.
I'm aware that the game needs to make money to keep the lights on but this is just offensive.
You want players to spend more time and money in the game?
Give us missions worth running, hell I [layed through the romulan "faction" missions four times and STILL love them hat was some damn fun gameplay and good story, put some new cash/dil items in the stores.
Don't shove a 1/3 year grind down our throats to make the money.
You want to balance out the R&D grind a little more? Fine, throttle it but don't ****ing CHOKE it to death.
The more slots you unlock, the more projects you can run from a single school.
three slots, two from the school, five slots, three from the school and so on.
Keeps it from being abused while allowing the players to see real progress without felling forced to sink money into the system.
This hits it on the nail for me. It's a missed opportunity. As someone who loves mixing up equipment and trying new builds, whether successful or not, an avenue for creating my own items with mods of my choosing has a lot of appeal. The grind already seemed daunting since level 15 appears to be the point where you can reasonably start crafting something worthwhile for your investment. A decent ways off for any school before. A much longer way off now on a system that does little to engage me. It's no real hardship to login and fire off the 20 hour mission. It's also not really fun.
Give me something interesting, unique, and of value to craft at each stage along the way and you might hook me. Are there any consumable ground and space items that can be crafted in the new system and are not found elsewhere in game?
Yes the lack of anything useful for high level characters at low level crafting is a MAJOR drawback to the system. If they allowed the crafting at low levels of various things people at level 50 would use then the system would be much better.
Oops, that sounds like everyday management style in any now-a-days company...Make money fast and disappear over the horizon. Well, they got the last part right, we all want the fastest get away ship there is. But grinding for it another year? Don`t think so. Too bad, the R&D idea was pretty sound before this "fix".
Now, all i see is a community of very unhappy customers. I`m quite sure i read something about unhappy customers in the Ferengi rule book, but they don`t really read that at Cryptic. It`s for sale for a handfull of Lobi guys...worth reading
Yeah, I'm not going to craft a bunch of Mk VI vendor trash and put it on the exchange with everyone else's Mk VI vendor trash they are also crafting for the same reason I am (XP progression).
The mats are better off being used elsewhere, or at the very least sold on the exchange. I'd at least get more money out of the mats than whatever green or blue piece of Mk VI garbage I'd create.
Yes you can. You just can't do the experience only 20hr project in all your slots.
Lifetime Sub since June 2010
ah ok, no worries then. I should be able to make 15 in about 35-40 days doing mark vi's then the 20.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
That's the thing that really bugs me the most about this. I have already completed rep, all 5, on 9 of 12 characters and gotten the "best" gear from them, the stuff I wanted, and spent the resources. I have also already completed each fleet holding to T5/3 with my fleet and bought most of the fleet items I want. Now, to finish just 1 crafting school I will have to grind 100 days. To build an Aegis set, 3 schools minimum, then get all 7, then build gear I want or fear that will sell well...NO! Not doing this
Player and forumite formerly known as FEELTHETHUNDER
Expatriot Might Characters in EXILE
As of today I no longer consider myself a player of STO.
It's a Free to Play Game, as such I can return any time, yadda yadda yadda.
This isn't exactly an "I quit" statement. It's an "I'm watching, just in case it ever gets any better" statement.
I can no longer in any way support the awful decisions that continue to be made, all of which as "Lead Designer" , AL "Captain Geko" Rivera must have a hand in signing off on.
I understand that he is a huge Trek fan, and so it astonishes me that he continues to drive this game in the directions he does.
Last year, Dan Stahl was moved to another project because as we were told at the time an EP suffers from burnout.
Geko has been at his position for 6 years now.
His ideas and way of doing things, combined with an obvious disdain for the playerbase that he cannot even hide during interviews, make this a place I'd rather not be.
Why would I continue to support a game where the lead developer actively Trolls the players during a much hyped interview, and implements game systems that don't even make any attempt to disguise the ridiculous cash grab that they are?
So, no I don't quit.
I love this game too much.
But I can't in all good conscience continue to log in and provide them one more tic on their metrics of # of people logging in.
I am watching.
No. You can't have my stuff.
Peace,
For there to be a response, there first has to be feedback.
Now I know 40odd pages looks like feedback, but actually it doesn't exist.
Like the pages of tribble feedback on 9.5 that also doesn't exist.
As players, we have to accept that our notes, comments, cogently worded statements and carefully crafted criticisms don't exist.
Geko has spoken.
(and it's probably time for Geko to go. Wish I was going to STLV so I could tell him so)
I hope as many people as there are players at Vegas tell him so.
I actually meant to today's debacle - i'm aware that people have been giving feedback for a while now.
I was at least expecting someone to drop by and defend the move by saying "now working as intended" but clearly today they're adopting the "silence is the best defence" approach.
That is what they do whenever they TRIBBLE up.
Probably but honestly, if I was there, I would be checking other stuff out at the convention moreso than hanging around the STO area. To be perfectly honest, if I was in Vegas the convention wouldn't be high on my list of priorities, just a sideshow that I would burn a few hours. :P
What can they say?
The changes fly in the face of things both Geko and Hawk have said before.
WAI can't work....because their intent was already known and they moved away from that.
Specially Hawk with his 350 hours crafting post that turned out to be nothing but words.
They did. It just wasn't what they wanted to hear. So it was ignored.
No, no, I'm not that hardcore. Let's say midcore. I'm talking about doing 3 sets of 3 or 4 hourlies (takes a total of 5 minutes of real time). So I just have to open STO for a couple minutes 3 times a day. If that's the case I can deal with this. Note that this pace is still a little slower than running 3 and later 4 20 hours, but not by all that much.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
I thought they learned their lesson from the grindaversary. Nope.
I, too, had tentatively hoped that the correct lesson from the grindaversary had been learned.
Sadly not, and I'm beginning to think that cryptics biggest problem right now may lie in just one person.
Centurion maximus92
12th Legion, Romulan Republic
12th Fleet
=\/= ================================ =\/=
Posting on the forums is more fun than playing the game.
That says a lot doesn't it? :rolleyes: