The Centaur Class is an entirely new design with design similarities to the Excelsior Class. In fact, it's roughly half the size of the Excelsior in terms of dimensions. Just because the studio model was a kitbash doesn't mean it was a "frankenship" in the series.
Your point about the ShiKahr is largely irrelevant to the discussion. Whatever the reasons behind designing it, it is still a modern starship in-game.
There is no real reason for them not getting a 2410 skin/variant, other than the devs either haven't gotten around to it, or simply have no desire to do so.
At least someone's trying to keep the thread on track.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
At least someone's trying to keep the thread on track.
Hey I tried to give an idea on a crusier variant of the Akira at tier 5 and make it a light cruiser instead of an escort.
Drop the hanger, give it cruiser commands and give it the standard 4/4 weapons setup. It loses the capability of mounting cannons and gets a + buff to engine power instead of weapons.
Now you have a light cruiser with a 2410 skin. Don't even have to bring up the tier 1 light cruiser into the mix.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
At least someone's trying to keep the thread on track.
I'm trying to be a good boy today.
And I'm purposely trying to avoid any mention of the "classic" light cruiser variant. After all, I wouldn't want it to become a victim of that F.C.T. TRIBBLE that's recently become vogue.
(although you're being kind of obnoxious, if probably unintentionally. The words "paying customer" are generally not taken well on these boards.)
Honestly, what needs to happen is this. The refit and normal skins need to be swapped.
If you get a T4 Defiant, what you actually get is the Sao Paulo skin. It's a nicer looking skin, but you can't customize it. Not much, at least. The "refit" (we'd need to call them something else, but that wouldn't be a problem) comes with the upgraded stats/special item, and the three "standard" skins -- Defiant, Vigilant, and Gallant. This actually makes a lot of sense, as the console or item that the "refit" comes with is usually something associated with the original ship.
Basically, while I understand the reasoning that lower-ranked captains would get the really old ships, it doesn't hold up. This isn't the 24th-century "era" anymore. Ships from that era aren't just old, they're archaic. So nobody should normally be flying them. However, a higher-ranked officer would have enough pull to get his hands on an old-school-looking ship if he so desired, hence the non-refit "refit" versions.
As for the actual topic at hand, we just need a new starter ship. Something with the same basic idea as the Miranda, but distinctly 25th-century.
This has probably already been posted, but you won't give new recruits the ship of the line. They'll have to use older ships, not outdated, but not brand new. Like the Miranda, it was used in the DS9 battles, and is a good filler for PoS ships. I.e. Low ranks.
Hey I tried to give an idea on a crusier variant of the Akira at tier 5 and make it a light cruiser instead of an escort.
Drop the hanger, give it cruiser commands and give it the standard 4/4 weapons setup. It loses the capability of mounting cannons and gets a + buff to engine power instead of weapons.
Now you have a light cruiser with a 2410 skin. Don't even have to bring up the tier 1 light cruiser into the mix.
Except, that the OP was talking about the T1 Light Cruiser and updating it's look for the 25th century, not updating it's functionality and making it T5. The whole point was aesthetics.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Plus since apparently everything IS a at least a T3 ship can I ask what the hell should we use as starter ships because I am pretty sure some of you would argue the Space Shuttle is also AT LEAST T2.
The holodeck?
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Except, that the OP was talking about the T1 Light Cruiser and updating it's look for the 25th century, not updating it's functionality and making it T5. The whole point was aesthetics.
And the asthetics. It's like driving a beat up barely running 86 Carolla, vs drinvg a brand spanking new Carolla or better yet moving up to a BMW M3, or pick your poison of amazing cars.
Somebody explain why'd i'd want to skipper a ship well over 130 years old when I can get command of a brand spanking new Avenger, or Odryssey or any host of other ships that will be way more effective at just about any job you can think of.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
And the asthetics. It's like driving a beat up barely running 86 Carolla, vs drinvg a brand spanking new Carolla or better yet moving up to a BMW M3, or pick your poison of amazing cars.
Somebody explain why'd i'd want to skipper a ship well over 130 years old when I can get command of a brand spanking new Avenger, or Odryssey or any host of other ships that will be way more effective at just about any job you can think of.
Not sure what you're getting at here. The OP just wanted a 25th century looking T1 Light Cruiser Starter Ship.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
This has probably already been posted, but you won't give new recruits the ship of the line. They'll have to use older ships, not outdated, but not brand new. Like the Miranda, it was used in the DS9 battles, and is a good filler for PoS ships. I.e. Low ranks.
Not just outdated ships but less costly ships(in regards to resources committed to its creation, maintenance and so forth) . The fact is. Im not asking for the Devs to hand players a T1 version of an Odyssey. But simply give an updated 25th Century Variant of the current T1 Starter Ships (Miranda/Centuar/Shik'kar)
I agree that a Lieutenant shouldnt be handed a big shiny ship like a Regent or an Avenger. But that after 3+ years of losses topped with the losses of the Dominion War. Its not unreasonable to believe that the Light Cruisers like the Centaur and Miranda would become scarce by this point. Especially since in both conflicts theyve acted as cannon fodder and Fleet Filler Ships. But the Light Cruiser has more then proven is worth and importance to the make-up of a Fleet. And this alone would give Starfleet Corp of Engineers a reason to bring to life a 25th Century version of such a ship.
Statistics wise it would be the equivalent of a Centuar/Miranda/Shik'kar but simply come with the now distinct aesthetics featured on ships like I mentioned in the OP. It would still be an easily replaceable ship (In-Universe excuse wise) because of its size, drain on resources and the fact that the Commanding Officer was a lowly Lieutenant. And for the bean counters. That would make this an easy write-off type of vessel in regards to its loss.
There is a "face-lift" version of the Miranda Class Starship. It's one of the costumes, called the Shi'Kahr, or something like that. It's as ugly as sin and illogically designed.
Having said that, maybe a C-Store accessible "Advanced Light Cruiser" might be in line right about now, in the same vein as the...
Constitution Class (Exeter)
Saber Class (Gladius)
Akira Class (Thunderchild -and- the Armitage)
Galaxy Class (Venture)
Defiant Class (Sao Paulo)
Sovereign Class (Regent)
Odyssey/Avenger/Aquarius
Since it's being mentioned with updating ships that badly need it... has anyone noticed that so many iconic classes have gotten the update, but not the Excelsior? Well, I've been tinkering for a few weeks with some designs and soon hope to have it all rendered in blueprint-form so that everyone can have a look at it and tell me I'm crazy.
Since it's being mentioned with updating ships that badly need it... has anyone noticed that so many iconic classes have gotten the update, but not the Excelsior? Well, I've been tinkering for a few weeks with some designs and soon hope to have it all rendered in blueprint-form so that everyone can have a look at it and tell me I'm crazy.
Cuz I probably am.
I'm surprised they hadn't done a 2409/2410 version of the Excelsior as well. They done almost all the ships. I'm sure they can make a sweet version of it. And it would sell.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
The Sovereign possesses a large number of stylistic differences that make it distinct from the Excelsior. In the same way that the Dyson and the Intrepid are visibly similar but very distinctly different.
As well, the Sovereign has its own update! The Excelsior deserves a face-life a la 2409!
Forgot to add the Intrepid to that list too: The Bellerophon. With a name like that, how could I have forgotten!?
I'm surprised they hadn't done a 2409/2410 version of the Excelsior as well. They done almost all the ships. I'm sure they can make a sweet version of it. And it would sell.
If they made one for the C-Store, I would buy it. I would buy it if it meant selling my body to earn the money. I have man-love for the Excelsior.
I am not using STO wiki for those facts, I am using memory Alpha were DS9 Tech Manual says thats were they were build from spare parts.
Plus its not a "new design", it shares no similarities with contemporary designs as the New Orleans and Nebula does in relation to the Galaxy class but rather with a 90 years old design, there is far more supporting evident the Centaur was simply build out of decommissioned Excelsiors that someone at Starfleet deciding they were going to make a new design based on 90 years old design.
Plus since apparently everything IS a at least a T3 ship can I ask what the hell should we use as starter ships because I am pretty sure some of you would argue the Space Shuttle is also AT LEAST T2.
Memory Alpha only mentions what was written in the DS9 Tech Manual, which is neither on-screen canon or valid, canon source material. The DS9-TM is soft canon, at best.
There are no hard canon sources that supports the claim that the Centaur class starship is built out of salvaged Excelsior parts, in-universe.
That fact, combined with the differing scale between the two classes, makes the Centaur a newer class of vessel based on design aspects of the Excelsior class. Design aesthetics being completely irrelevant.
As for the last part, your point is silly. As evident time and time again in this game, the age of a given starshipDESIGN is irrelevant to it's standing in the Tier system.
The light cruiser gets to fill a niche. Less weapons than a heavy cruiser but faster. So it can keep up with escorts better.
Add the idea I suggested earlier in this thread and make 2 c-store ships like they did the t'varo with consoles that can be paired at tier 5 and they get to sell the ship twice.
You really want to add to concept. Give it more aft weapons or a dedicated mine launcher.
Many ways to make a lt. cruiser fit in t5 without it having to be an oddy clone.
there are three destroyers in the game. when is the last time you have seen ANY of them?
as the rate of whining for the T5 connie and mirandas increase i would rather see them leave the game permanently and a new class be designed to replace them. ditto the excelsior and NX class
there are three destroyers in the game. when is the last time you have seen ANY of them?
as the rate of whining for the T5 connie and mirandas increase i would rather see them leave the game permanently and a new class be designed to replace them. ditto the excelsior and NX class
I wouldnt go as far as asking for ships to be removed (besides that god awful Jupiter Class) but the original point of the OP was to introduce a new class of Light Cruiser. One that would have the aesthetics (white and black paintjob) of the newer ships being released. I purposely left out any indication that I wished to see a T5 variant because I only care that the ships receive a superficial change in appearance and desgin. And dont care about an upgrade to T5 or given inflated stats.
If others would be willing to support a T5 Variant, The Devs would be willing to look into the possibility and CBS would give it a thumbs up. Then great. But that is another thread all together.
there are three destroyers in the game. when is the last time you have seen ANY of them?
as the rate of whining for the T5 connie and mirandas increase i would rather see them leave the game permanently and a new class be designed to replace them. ditto the excelsior and NX class
Oh, delete them in the name of "raising the average quality of the game"? Hmm? :P
While you're at it, take the galaxy class with you. and the Cheyenne. and the raptors. and the bops. and the luna. and the fed deep space science vessels. Might as well eh? Exploration is going, so the only boats we'll need are "pewpewpew" boats.
I find this entire thread amusing .......by the way how in the world did this thing get to 12 pages anyway ? .....but I have to thank you al....I needed a good chuckle tonight you guys gave it to me thank you very much.......carry on !!!
I find this entire thread amusing .......by the way how in the world did this thing get to 12 pages anyway ? .....but I have to thank you al....I needed a good chuckle tonight you guys gave it to me thank you very much.......carry on !!!
Yes. We're all here to please you. See a therapist. Soon.
Honestly, when you consider how useless Light Cruisers were even during the Dominion War, I doubt Starfleet would be interested in building more. They'd focus more on Defiant-style warships, capable of dealing and surviving heavy damage at the same time.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them." -Thomas Marrone
Its true that cryptic has been giving their own design to new and updated ships, but this doesn't mean every ship should be updated. Frankly, most of crytics designs are ugly as hell. Some examples of their failed designs include the Avenger, Vesta, Venture, and Regent, and to some extent, the Odyssey. I'm all for new ships and new designs, but they could at least take the time to smooth out the edges and fine tune the proportions. The Avenger looks like a star trek ship was rear ended by something out of battlestar Galactica, with its boxy warp nacelles and stubby, frail looking pylons, and the odyssey looks like its got dwarfism, in that the saucer is far too large co.pared to the rest of the ship. And what's with the latest trend of jamming I.pulse engines INSIDE the pylons along with what's already on the saucer? I'm sorry, but with their current track record, I can't possibly agree with adding more ships until they get their designs right.
Honestly, when you consider how useless Light Cruisers were even during the Dominion War, I doubt Starfleet would be interested in building more. They'd focus more on Defiant-style warships, capable of dealing and surviving heavy damage at the same time.
for that trek series, the cgi artists couldnt do the shield effects for the many ships, too much money and time it would of required a lot of time to get it all done, so in the end you saw galors getting cut to pieces by galaxyfails and mirandas getting chopped in pieces. that specific argument always puts up about how useless they were but really, we would have no idea.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Its true that cryptic has been giving their own design to new and updated ships, but this doesn't mean every ship should be updated. Frankly, most of crytics designs are ugly as hell. Some examples of their failed designs include the Avenger, Vesta, Venture, and Regent, and to some extent, the Odyssey. I'm all for new ships and new designs, but they could at least take the time to smooth out the edges and fine tune the proportions. The Avenger looks like a star trek ship was rear ended by something out of battlestar Galactica, with its boxy warp nacelles and stubby, frail looking pylons, and the odyssey looks like its got dwarfism, in that the saucer is far too large co.pared to the rest of the ship. And what's with the latest trend of jamming I.pulse engines INSIDE the pylons along with what's already on the saucer? I'm sorry, but with their current track record, I can't possibly agree with adding more ships until they get their designs right.
12 pages of plenty of people saying theyd like to see it. Its your opinion, and that is all, that those ships are ugly.
Honestly, when you consider how useless Light Cruisers were even during the Dominion War, I doubt Starfleet would be interested in building more. They'd focus more on Defiant-style warships, capable of dealing and surviving heavy damage at the same time.
Mirandas, in canon, are generally considered to be frigates or just plain cruisers (depending on the source).
And you cannot judge the value of a given type by what we see on screen.
If we applied that method to determine what is "TRIBBLE" and what isn't in-universe, then some of Starfleet's newer types would be considered "TRIBBLE". A prime example would be the Steamrunner and Saber Classes. In "First Contact", at the Battle of Sector 001, we saw them being KO'ed from single, solid hits from the Borg cube. And those ships were by no means TRIBBLE.
So, based on that, the Miranda cannot be judged by what was seen in a few scenes of DS9's Dominion War episodes.
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At least someone's trying to keep the thread on track.
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Hey I tried to give an idea on a crusier variant of the Akira at tier 5 and make it a light cruiser instead of an escort.
Drop the hanger, give it cruiser commands and give it the standard 4/4 weapons setup. It loses the capability of mounting cannons and gets a + buff to engine power instead of weapons.
Now you have a light cruiser with a 2410 skin. Don't even have to bring up the tier 1 light cruiser into the mix.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
I'm trying to be a good boy today.
And I'm purposely trying to avoid any mention of the "classic" light cruiser variant. After all, I wouldn't want it to become a victim of that F.C.T. TRIBBLE that's recently become vogue.
(although you're being kind of obnoxious, if probably unintentionally. The words "paying customer" are generally not taken well on these boards.)
Honestly, what needs to happen is this. The refit and normal skins need to be swapped.
If you get a T4 Defiant, what you actually get is the Sao Paulo skin. It's a nicer looking skin, but you can't customize it. Not much, at least. The "refit" (we'd need to call them something else, but that wouldn't be a problem) comes with the upgraded stats/special item, and the three "standard" skins -- Defiant, Vigilant, and Gallant. This actually makes a lot of sense, as the console or item that the "refit" comes with is usually something associated with the original ship.
Basically, while I understand the reasoning that lower-ranked captains would get the really old ships, it doesn't hold up. This isn't the 24th-century "era" anymore. Ships from that era aren't just old, they're archaic. So nobody should normally be flying them. However, a higher-ranked officer would have enough pull to get his hands on an old-school-looking ship if he so desired, hence the non-refit "refit" versions.
As for the actual topic at hand, we just need a new starter ship. Something with the same basic idea as the Miranda, but distinctly 25th-century.
Except, that the OP was talking about the T1 Light Cruiser and updating it's look for the 25th century, not updating it's functionality and making it T5. The whole point was aesthetics.
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The holodeck?
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
And the asthetics. It's like driving a beat up barely running 86 Carolla, vs drinvg a brand spanking new Carolla or better yet moving up to a BMW M3, or pick your poison of amazing cars.
Somebody explain why'd i'd want to skipper a ship well over 130 years old when I can get command of a brand spanking new Avenger, or Odryssey or any host of other ships that will be way more effective at just about any job you can think of.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Not sure what you're getting at here. The OP just wanted a 25th century looking T1 Light Cruiser Starter Ship.
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Not just outdated ships but less costly ships(in regards to resources committed to its creation, maintenance and so forth) . The fact is. Im not asking for the Devs to hand players a T1 version of an Odyssey. But simply give an updated 25th Century Variant of the current T1 Starter Ships (Miranda/Centuar/Shik'kar)
I agree that a Lieutenant shouldnt be handed a big shiny ship like a Regent or an Avenger. But that after 3+ years of losses topped with the losses of the Dominion War. Its not unreasonable to believe that the Light Cruisers like the Centaur and Miranda would become scarce by this point. Especially since in both conflicts theyve acted as cannon fodder and Fleet Filler Ships. But the Light Cruiser has more then proven is worth and importance to the make-up of a Fleet. And this alone would give Starfleet Corp of Engineers a reason to bring to life a 25th Century version of such a ship.
Statistics wise it would be the equivalent of a Centuar/Miranda/Shik'kar but simply come with the now distinct aesthetics featured on ships like I mentioned in the OP. It would still be an easily replaceable ship (In-Universe excuse wise) because of its size, drain on resources and the fact that the Commanding Officer was a lowly Lieutenant. And for the bean counters. That would make this an easy write-off type of vessel in regards to its loss.
Having said that, maybe a C-Store accessible "Advanced Light Cruiser" might be in line right about now, in the same vein as the...
Constitution Class (Exeter)
Saber Class (Gladius)
Akira Class (Thunderchild -and- the Armitage)
Galaxy Class (Venture)
Defiant Class (Sao Paulo)
Sovereign Class (Regent)
Odyssey/Avenger/Aquarius
Since it's being mentioned with updating ships that badly need it... has anyone noticed that so many iconic classes have gotten the update, but not the Excelsior? Well, I've been tinkering for a few weeks with some designs and soon hope to have it all rendered in blueprint-form so that everyone can have a look at it and tell me I'm crazy.
Cuz I probably am.
Captaincy, Excelsior-Class U.S.S. Bianca Beauchamp NCC-99947-F
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I'm surprised they hadn't done a 2409/2410 version of the Excelsior as well. They done almost all the ships. I'm sure they can make a sweet version of it. And it would sell.
USS Casinghead NCC 92047 launched 2350
Fleet Admiral Stowe - Dominion War Vet.
The Sovereign possesses a large number of stylistic differences that make it distinct from the Excelsior. In the same way that the Dyson and the Intrepid are visibly similar but very distinctly different.
As well, the Sovereign has its own update! The Excelsior deserves a face-life a la 2409!
Forgot to add the Intrepid to that list too: The Bellerophon. With a name like that, how could I have forgotten!?
If they made one for the C-Store, I would buy it. I would buy it if it meant selling my body to earn the money. I have man-love for the Excelsior.
Captaincy, Excelsior-Class U.S.S. Bianca Beauchamp NCC-99947-F
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
:eek:
Quick, someone stop him. Don't let him get away!
Memory Alpha only mentions what was written in the DS9 Tech Manual, which is neither on-screen canon or valid, canon source material. The DS9-TM is soft canon, at best.
There are no hard canon sources that supports the claim that the Centaur class starship is built out of salvaged Excelsior parts, in-universe.
That fact, combined with the differing scale between the two classes, makes the Centaur a newer class of vessel based on design aspects of the Excelsior class. Design aesthetics being completely irrelevant.
As for the last part, your point is silly. As evident time and time again in this game, the age of a given starship DESIGN is irrelevant to it's standing in the Tier system.
: cough : science ship : cough :
there are three destroyers in the game. when is the last time you have seen ANY of them?
as the rate of whining for the T5 connie and mirandas increase i would rather see them leave the game permanently and a new class be designed to replace them. ditto the excelsior and NX class
I wouldnt go as far as asking for ships to be removed (besides that god awful Jupiter Class) but the original point of the OP was to introduce a new class of Light Cruiser. One that would have the aesthetics (white and black paintjob) of the newer ships being released. I purposely left out any indication that I wished to see a T5 variant because I only care that the ships receive a superficial change in appearance and desgin. And dont care about an upgrade to T5 or given inflated stats.
If others would be willing to support a T5 Variant, The Devs would be willing to look into the possibility and CBS would give it a thumbs up. Then great. But that is another thread all together.
Oh, delete them in the name of "raising the average quality of the game"? Hmm? :P
While you're at it, take the galaxy class with you. and the Cheyenne. and the raptors. and the bops. and the luna. and the fed deep space science vessels. Might as well eh? Exploration is going, so the only boats we'll need are "pewpewpew" boats.
Yes. We're all here to please you. See a therapist. Soon.
"Critics who say that the optimistic utopia Star Trek depicted is now outmoded forget the cultural context that gave birth to it: Star Trek was not a manifestation of optimism when optimism was easy. Star Trek declared a hope for a future that nobody stuck in the present could believe in. For all our struggles today, we haven’t outgrown the need for stories like Star Trek. We need tales of optimism, of heroes, of courage and goodness now as much as we’ve ever needed them."
-Thomas Marrone
for that trek series, the cgi artists couldnt do the shield effects for the many ships, too much money and time it would of required a lot of time to get it all done, so in the end you saw galors getting cut to pieces by galaxyfails and mirandas getting chopped in pieces. that specific argument always puts up about how useless they were but really, we would have no idea.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
12 pages of plenty of people saying theyd like to see it. Its your opinion, and that is all, that those ships are ugly.
Mirandas, in canon, are generally considered to be frigates or just plain cruisers (depending on the source).
And you cannot judge the value of a given type by what we see on screen.
If we applied that method to determine what is "TRIBBLE" and what isn't in-universe, then some of Starfleet's newer types would be considered "TRIBBLE". A prime example would be the Steamrunner and Saber Classes. In "First Contact", at the Battle of Sector 001, we saw them being KO'ed from single, solid hits from the Borg cube. And those ships were by no means TRIBBLE.
So, based on that, the Miranda cannot be judged by what was seen in a few scenes of DS9's Dominion War episodes.