Considering the Federation already has more ships that both other factions COMBINED how bout we flesh out the romulan line up and IDK get some tier 5 RAPTORS first since there are what NONE!
good god, crying about wanting light cruisers, how bout the factions that really need ships get some loving first?
I think there's room enough for more KDF and Romulan ships as well as the ideas in this thread about light cruisers.
if you want there is a raptor thread in the klingon section about a counter to the armitage class, raptor carriers. novel idea :P. just keep all that over there, not here.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
I think there's room enough for more KDF and Romulan ships as well as the ideas in this thread about light cruisers.
But again I ask the question, what do we need with tier 5 Light cruisers that some other ship doesn't already fill? I mean bad enough we have iconic ships at tier 5 that are already not cutting the mustard, we want to add to it by adding tier 5 LT cruisers as well? Cause you know well as I do, if these light cruisers can't do it all and then some, people are going to pitch 3 kinds of fits, much like the Gal-R now.
Best way to avoid a trap, not sitck your foot in it.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
But again I ask the question, what do we need with tier 5 Light cruisers that some other ship doesn't already fill? I mean bad enough we have iconic ships at tier 5 that are already not cutting the mustard, we want to add to it by adding tier 5 LT cruisers as well? Cause you know well as I do, if these light cruisers can't do it all and then some, people are going to pitch 3 kinds of fits, much like the Gal-R now.
Best way to avoid a trap, not sitck your foot in it.
The light cruiser gets to fill a niche. Less weapons than a heavy cruiser but faster. So it can keep up with escorts better.
Add the idea I suggested earlier in this thread and make 2 c-store ships like they did the t'varo with consoles that can be paired at tier 5 and they get to sell the ship twice.
You really want to add to concept. Give it more aft weapons or a dedicated mine launcher.
Many ways to make a lt. cruiser fit in t5 without it having to be an oddy clone.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Hrm, I'd say, and no this isn't that infamous dead horse post, Something modernized like the Miranda without it being the miranda. I like the idea. But if I started a new feddie it wouldn't feel the same without my starting miranda class, so I dunno, I'm on the middle line here.
Defending The Galaxy By Breaking One Starfleet Regulation After The Next.
seems the issue has been read out with talon playing the devils advocate and the rest of us the counter point. it appears some are just repeating stuff already wrote down, so im jumping off this wagon and resisting the urge to pick up that stick and poke something that just died... and its definitely a horse shaped object :rolleyes:.
T6 Miranda Hero Ship FTW. Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
Imho, Light Cruisers/Starter Ships would be worth to update when a Fleet version of them is offered. Therefore, the design would be invested in a Tier 5 ship, with extra spoils falling into the laps of Tier 1 ships.
A bad investment? What making the other factions equally as attractive and might score them more money is a bad idea? Since when?
Here's why that assertion is flawed. Star Trek Online is as popular as it is not only because it's a good MMO. It's also as popular as it is because of the rest of the franchise, TV series and movies in particular. The series and movies focused solely on the Federation side of the universe, some DS9 episodes notwithstanding. That is the drive for the popularity of the Federation as a playable faction in STO. Even if the KDF and the RRF had an equal amount of content in this game, the Fed side would still be far more popular than the rest simply on that fact. It is more logical to take advantage of that and make more content for the Feds.
I don't like it any more than you do. I'd love for lots of new KDF and RRF ships to come out. But I do realize these facts, and accept them. I think the main solution to this is to push for a KDF- or RRF-centered TV series - not by trying to force 'equality' in a Star Trek game where it just won't work otherwise.
Here's why that assertion is flawed. Star Trek Online is as popular as it is not only because it's a good MMO. It's also as popular as it is because of the rest of the franchise, TV series and movies in particular. The series and movies focused solely on the Federation side of the universe, some DS9 episodes notwithstanding. That is the drive for the popularity of the Federation as a playable faction in STO. Even if the KDF and the RRF had an equal amount of content in this game, the Fed side would still be far more popular than the rest simply on that fact. It is more logical to take advantage of that and make more content for the Feds.
I don't like it any more than you do. I'd love for lots of new KDF and RRF ships to come out. But I do realize these facts, and accept them. I think the main solution to this is to push for a KDF- or RRF-centered TV series - not by trying to force 'equality' in a Star Trek game where it just won't work otherwise.
You do have a point here. Everybody wants to play the "good guy".
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This thread seems to have completely lost its original intent. :rolleyes:
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This thread seems to have completely lost its original intent. :rolleyes:
As does many threads. Unfortunately it didnt get as far as Id have preferred.
I do like the ideas of a T5 Miranda Offshoot that would open up the door for the skin being used on the T1 version. It wasnt what I originally intended with the OP. As I was just pointing out an opportunity for a reskin. Not a T5 version at all.
But if the Devs saw this and started brainstorming for a new 2410 version of the Miranda/Centaur Id welcome it.
They arent, the Centaur is a very canon design that was created during the Dominion War by using Excelsior leftover parts as a stopgap measure, its basicly a crappy ship out of spare parts of decommissioned ships as a emergency measure because they needed bodies.
Honestly there already is tier 5 variants of a light cruiser, just needs a variant. The Akira class, that could easily become a tier 5 light cruiser. Wham bam, it's already there, has the 2410 look, just ditch the hanger, slap on the crusier commands done and over.
Don't even have to put the miranda class up at 5.
DONE!
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As does many threads. Unfortunately it didnt get as far as Id have preferred.
I do like the ideas of a T5 Miranda Offshoot that would open up the door for the skin being used on the T1 version. It wasnt what I originally intended with the OP. As I was just pointing out an opportunity for a reskin. Not a T5 version at all.
But if the Devs saw this and started brainstorming for a new 2410 version of the Miranda/Centaur Id welcome it.
Well, the Miranda is based on the Constitution and the Centaur is apparently based on the Excelsior (I have no idea what the ShiKahr is based on). I'd imagine that a 25th century Light Cruiser should be based on the Exeter, as it's the 25th century Cruiser. I would like to see this ship in-game, even nicer if the skin was an option on the T1.
As far as a T5 version goes... as there are no T5 versions of T1 ships, I'm thinking that wouldn't fly, BUT...
Since folks have been clamoring for Federation hangar pet frigates though: Why not use the T1 ships as hangar pet frigates? Then you've got 3 possible flavors of frigates to choose from: TAC (NX), ENG (Miranda), and SCI (Oberth).
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Light Cruisers need to be a class of their own, like Klingon Raptors are a step between the BoP and Battlecruiser. Larger than the Escort class, smaller than a true Cruiser, in between the two in speed and power --a middle ground, jack of all trades ship. Nicely balanced, good at everything but not great at anything.
Light Cruisers need to be a class of their own, like Klingon Raptors are a step between the BoP and Battlecruiser. Larger than the Escort class, smaller than a true Cruiser, in between the two in speed and power --a middle ground, jack of all trades ship. Nicely balanced, good at everything but not great at anything.
Then we need to eliminate the whole "science ship" concept as they are utterly unsuitable for multi-role missions (hell, Escorts only barely qualify) and make a few support cruisers who want to play such a role in group content. There is no place for the MMO Trinity in Star Trek, it's a concept ported from fantasy games that fits the setting not at all.
If it were up to me, we'd have Destroyers, Lt Cruisers, Medium Cruisers, and Heavy Cruisers with a few more specialized variants available for players who want them.
Missed a few classes in there. Frigates, battlecruiser, battleship. Though raptors aren't even good enough to be jacks of all trades.
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Yeah as soon as you showed this would be a ship class between escort and battlecruiser I thought destroyer too.
Now of course it makes me think they should put out a c-store destroyer and raptor for tier 5 with something along the lines of a warp core for phasers and disruptors respectively.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
They arent, the Centaur is a very canon design that was created during the Dominion War by using Excelsior leftover parts as a stopgap measure, its basicly a crappy ship out of spare parts of decommissioned ships as a emergency measure because they needed bodies.
The ShiKahr is only "modern" in the sense Cryptic wanted to inflate numbers on release, nothing says its modern because its a costume.
Sharing design with a ship that is made almost entirely out of salvage components of decommissioned ships only "proves" they are crappy ships.
The STO Wiki and Cryptic got their facts wrong.
The Centaur Class is an entirely new design with design similarities to the Excelsior Class. In fact, it's roughly half the size of the Excelsior in terms of dimensions. Just because the studio model was a kitbash doesn't mean it was a "frankenship" in the series.
Your point about the ShiKahr is largely irrelevant to the discussion. Whatever the reasons behind designing it, it is still a modern starship in-game.
There is no real reason for them not getting a 2410 skin/variant, other than the devs either haven't gotten around to it, or simply have no desire to do so.
The Centaur Class is an entirely new design with design similarities to the Excelsior Class. In fact, it's roughly half the size of the Excelsior in terms of dimensions. Just because the studio model was a kitbash doesn't mean it was a "frankenship" in the series.
Your point about the ShiKahr is largely irrelevant to the discussion. Whatever the reasons behind designing it, it is still a modern starship in-game.
There is no real reason for them not getting a 2410 skin/variant, other than the devs either haven't gotten around to it, or simply have no desire to do so.
At least someone's trying to keep the thread on track.
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At least someone's trying to keep the thread on track.
Hey I tried to give an idea on a crusier variant of the Akira at tier 5 and make it a light cruiser instead of an escort.
Drop the hanger, give it cruiser commands and give it the standard 4/4 weapons setup. It loses the capability of mounting cannons and gets a + buff to engine power instead of weapons.
Now you have a light cruiser with a 2410 skin. Don't even have to bring up the tier 1 light cruiser into the mix.
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At least someone's trying to keep the thread on track.
I'm trying to be a good boy today.
And I'm purposely trying to avoid any mention of the "classic" light cruiser variant. After all, I wouldn't want it to become a victim of that F.C.T. TRIBBLE that's recently become vogue.
(although you're being kind of obnoxious, if probably unintentionally. The words "paying customer" are generally not taken well on these boards.)
Honestly, what needs to happen is this. The refit and normal skins need to be swapped.
If you get a T4 Defiant, what you actually get is the Sao Paulo skin. It's a nicer looking skin, but you can't customize it. Not much, at least. The "refit" (we'd need to call them something else, but that wouldn't be a problem) comes with the upgraded stats/special item, and the three "standard" skins -- Defiant, Vigilant, and Gallant. This actually makes a lot of sense, as the console or item that the "refit" comes with is usually something associated with the original ship.
Basically, while I understand the reasoning that lower-ranked captains would get the really old ships, it doesn't hold up. This isn't the 24th-century "era" anymore. Ships from that era aren't just old, they're archaic. So nobody should normally be flying them. However, a higher-ranked officer would have enough pull to get his hands on an old-school-looking ship if he so desired, hence the non-refit "refit" versions.
As for the actual topic at hand, we just need a new starter ship. Something with the same basic idea as the Miranda, but distinctly 25th-century.
This has probably already been posted, but you won't give new recruits the ship of the line. They'll have to use older ships, not outdated, but not brand new. Like the Miranda, it was used in the DS9 battles, and is a good filler for PoS ships. I.e. Low ranks.
Hey I tried to give an idea on a crusier variant of the Akira at tier 5 and make it a light cruiser instead of an escort.
Drop the hanger, give it cruiser commands and give it the standard 4/4 weapons setup. It loses the capability of mounting cannons and gets a + buff to engine power instead of weapons.
Now you have a light cruiser with a 2410 skin. Don't even have to bring up the tier 1 light cruiser into the mix.
Except, that the OP was talking about the T1 Light Cruiser and updating it's look for the 25th century, not updating it's functionality and making it T5. The whole point was aesthetics.
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Plus since apparently everything IS a at least a T3 ship can I ask what the hell should we use as starter ships because I am pretty sure some of you would argue the Space Shuttle is also AT LEAST T2.
The holodeck?
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Except, that the OP was talking about the T1 Light Cruiser and updating it's look for the 25th century, not updating it's functionality and making it T5. The whole point was aesthetics.
And the asthetics. It's like driving a beat up barely running 86 Carolla, vs drinvg a brand spanking new Carolla or better yet moving up to a BMW M3, or pick your poison of amazing cars.
Somebody explain why'd i'd want to skipper a ship well over 130 years old when I can get command of a brand spanking new Avenger, or Odryssey or any host of other ships that will be way more effective at just about any job you can think of.
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And the asthetics. It's like driving a beat up barely running 86 Carolla, vs drinvg a brand spanking new Carolla or better yet moving up to a BMW M3, or pick your poison of amazing cars.
Somebody explain why'd i'd want to skipper a ship well over 130 years old when I can get command of a brand spanking new Avenger, or Odryssey or any host of other ships that will be way more effective at just about any job you can think of.
Not sure what you're getting at here. The OP just wanted a 25th century looking T1 Light Cruiser Starter Ship.
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This has probably already been posted, but you won't give new recruits the ship of the line. They'll have to use older ships, not outdated, but not brand new. Like the Miranda, it was used in the DS9 battles, and is a good filler for PoS ships. I.e. Low ranks.
Not just outdated ships but less costly ships(in regards to resources committed to its creation, maintenance and so forth) . The fact is. Im not asking for the Devs to hand players a T1 version of an Odyssey. But simply give an updated 25th Century Variant of the current T1 Starter Ships (Miranda/Centuar/Shik'kar)
I agree that a Lieutenant shouldnt be handed a big shiny ship like a Regent or an Avenger. But that after 3+ years of losses topped with the losses of the Dominion War. Its not unreasonable to believe that the Light Cruisers like the Centaur and Miranda would become scarce by this point. Especially since in both conflicts theyve acted as cannon fodder and Fleet Filler Ships. But the Light Cruiser has more then proven is worth and importance to the make-up of a Fleet. And this alone would give Starfleet Corp of Engineers a reason to bring to life a 25th Century version of such a ship.
Statistics wise it would be the equivalent of a Centuar/Miranda/Shik'kar but simply come with the now distinct aesthetics featured on ships like I mentioned in the OP. It would still be an easily replaceable ship (In-Universe excuse wise) because of its size, drain on resources and the fact that the Commanding Officer was a lowly Lieutenant. And for the bean counters. That would make this an easy write-off type of vessel in regards to its loss.
Comments
I think there's room enough for more KDF and Romulan ships as well as the ideas in this thread about light cruisers.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
But again I ask the question, what do we need with tier 5 Light cruisers that some other ship doesn't already fill? I mean bad enough we have iconic ships at tier 5 that are already not cutting the mustard, we want to add to it by adding tier 5 LT cruisers as well? Cause you know well as I do, if these light cruisers can't do it all and then some, people are going to pitch 3 kinds of fits, much like the Gal-R now.
Best way to avoid a trap, not sitck your foot in it.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
The light cruiser gets to fill a niche. Less weapons than a heavy cruiser but faster. So it can keep up with escorts better.
Add the idea I suggested earlier in this thread and make 2 c-store ships like they did the t'varo with consoles that can be paired at tier 5 and they get to sell the ship twice.
You really want to add to concept. Give it more aft weapons or a dedicated mine launcher.
Many ways to make a lt. cruiser fit in t5 without it having to be an oddy clone.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
Defending The Galaxy By Breaking One Starfleet Regulation After The Next.
Been around since Dec 2010 on STO and bought LTS in Apr 2013 for STO.
I don't like it any more than you do. I'd love for lots of new KDF and RRF ships to come out. But I do realize these facts, and accept them. I think the main solution to this is to push for a KDF- or RRF-centered TV series - not by trying to force 'equality' in a Star Trek game where it just won't work otherwise.
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You do have a point here. Everybody wants to play the "good guy".
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As does many threads. Unfortunately it didnt get as far as Id have preferred.
I do like the ideas of a T5 Miranda Offshoot that would open up the door for the skin being used on the T1 version. It wasnt what I originally intended with the OP. As I was just pointing out an opportunity for a reskin. Not a T5 version at all.
But if the Devs saw this and started brainstorming for a new 2410 version of the Miranda/Centaur Id welcome it.
It's the Star Trek version of the Zaku Tank
Don't even have to put the miranda class up at 5.
DONE!
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Well, the Miranda is based on the Constitution and the Centaur is apparently based on the Excelsior (I have no idea what the ShiKahr is based on). I'd imagine that a 25th century Light Cruiser should be based on the Exeter, as it's the 25th century Cruiser. I would like to see this ship in-game, even nicer if the skin was an option on the T1.
As far as a T5 version goes... as there are no T5 versions of T1 ships, I'm thinking that wouldn't fly, BUT...
Since folks have been clamoring for Federation hangar pet frigates though: Why not use the T1 ships as hangar pet frigates? Then you've got 3 possible flavors of frigates to choose from: TAC (NX), ENG (Miranda), and SCI (Oberth).
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Edit: Linkie
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Missed a few classes in there. Frigates, battlecruiser, battleship. Though raptors aren't even good enough to be jacks of all trades.
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Now of course it makes me think they should put out a c-store destroyer and raptor for tier 5 with something along the lines of a warp core for phasers and disruptors respectively.
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
The STO Wiki and Cryptic got their facts wrong.
The Centaur Class is an entirely new design with design similarities to the Excelsior Class. In fact, it's roughly half the size of the Excelsior in terms of dimensions. Just because the studio model was a kitbash doesn't mean it was a "frankenship" in the series.
Your point about the ShiKahr is largely irrelevant to the discussion. Whatever the reasons behind designing it, it is still a modern starship in-game.
There is no real reason for them not getting a 2410 skin/variant, other than the devs either haven't gotten around to it, or simply have no desire to do so.
At least someone's trying to keep the thread on track.
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Hey I tried to give an idea on a crusier variant of the Akira at tier 5 and make it a light cruiser instead of an escort.
Drop the hanger, give it cruiser commands and give it the standard 4/4 weapons setup. It loses the capability of mounting cannons and gets a + buff to engine power instead of weapons.
Now you have a light cruiser with a 2410 skin. Don't even have to bring up the tier 1 light cruiser into the mix.
Star Trek Battles member. Want to roll with a good group of people regardless of fleets and not have to worry about DPS while doing STFs? Come join the channel and join in the fun!
http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
I'm trying to be a good boy today.
And I'm purposely trying to avoid any mention of the "classic" light cruiser variant. After all, I wouldn't want it to become a victim of that F.C.T. TRIBBLE that's recently become vogue.
(although you're being kind of obnoxious, if probably unintentionally. The words "paying customer" are generally not taken well on these boards.)
Honestly, what needs to happen is this. The refit and normal skins need to be swapped.
If you get a T4 Defiant, what you actually get is the Sao Paulo skin. It's a nicer looking skin, but you can't customize it. Not much, at least. The "refit" (we'd need to call them something else, but that wouldn't be a problem) comes with the upgraded stats/special item, and the three "standard" skins -- Defiant, Vigilant, and Gallant. This actually makes a lot of sense, as the console or item that the "refit" comes with is usually something associated with the original ship.
Basically, while I understand the reasoning that lower-ranked captains would get the really old ships, it doesn't hold up. This isn't the 24th-century "era" anymore. Ships from that era aren't just old, they're archaic. So nobody should normally be flying them. However, a higher-ranked officer would have enough pull to get his hands on an old-school-looking ship if he so desired, hence the non-refit "refit" versions.
As for the actual topic at hand, we just need a new starter ship. Something with the same basic idea as the Miranda, but distinctly 25th-century.
Except, that the OP was talking about the T1 Light Cruiser and updating it's look for the 25th century, not updating it's functionality and making it T5. The whole point was aesthetics.
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The holodeck?
Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
Network engineers are not ship designers.
Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
And the asthetics. It's like driving a beat up barely running 86 Carolla, vs drinvg a brand spanking new Carolla or better yet moving up to a BMW M3, or pick your poison of amazing cars.
Somebody explain why'd i'd want to skipper a ship well over 130 years old when I can get command of a brand spanking new Avenger, or Odryssey or any host of other ships that will be way more effective at just about any job you can think of.
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http://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1145998/star-trek-battles-channel-got-canon/p1
Not sure what you're getting at here. The OP just wanted a 25th century looking T1 Light Cruiser Starter Ship.
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Not just outdated ships but less costly ships(in regards to resources committed to its creation, maintenance and so forth) . The fact is. Im not asking for the Devs to hand players a T1 version of an Odyssey. But simply give an updated 25th Century Variant of the current T1 Starter Ships (Miranda/Centuar/Shik'kar)
I agree that a Lieutenant shouldnt be handed a big shiny ship like a Regent or an Avenger. But that after 3+ years of losses topped with the losses of the Dominion War. Its not unreasonable to believe that the Light Cruisers like the Centaur and Miranda would become scarce by this point. Especially since in both conflicts theyve acted as cannon fodder and Fleet Filler Ships. But the Light Cruiser has more then proven is worth and importance to the make-up of a Fleet. And this alone would give Starfleet Corp of Engineers a reason to bring to life a 25th Century version of such a ship.
Statistics wise it would be the equivalent of a Centuar/Miranda/Shik'kar but simply come with the now distinct aesthetics featured on ships like I mentioned in the OP. It would still be an easily replaceable ship (In-Universe excuse wise) because of its size, drain on resources and the fact that the Commanding Officer was a lowly Lieutenant. And for the bean counters. That would make this an easy write-off type of vessel in regards to its loss.