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Updating Light Cruisers

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    orangeitisorangeitis Member Posts: 5,222 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    The older ships that look like the older ships would not be the Refits that do not look like older ships...would they?
    Depends on what you mean by "look like". As in, what level of similarity do you consider to count as A looking like B? Some consider the Exeter to look like the Constitution, and it's justified on a certain level. Same basic shape. But if the level of similarity must be higher for you to consider A to look like B, then the Exeter looks nothing like the Connie.

    If you want to discuss what looks the same or not, I'm probably gonna need a good idea on what similarity level you're using to judge what looks like what.

    In either case, I was operating under the assumption that the OP wanted a refit to the Miranda similar to what the Exeter is to the Connie.
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    aloishammeraloishammer Member Posts: 3,294 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    While nicer visuals would be nice (especially on CANON ships like the two Constitutions, which are both graced with the wrong textures), I'd much rather have them altered so they're useful at higher levels.

    My thinking is simply to allow ships to be "refitted" to improve BO skill levels.

    For instance, refitting the T1 Light Cruisers to have a LtC Engineer slot, a Lt. Science slot and an Ens Tactical slot.

    -makes note in surveillance log-

    "Thread actually survived 4 pages before the inevitable attempt to stealthily convert it to a T5 Miranda thread occurred."
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    virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    orangeitis wrote: »
    In either case, I was operating under the assumption that the OP wanted a refit to the Miranda similar to what the Exeter is to the Connie.

    But the OP didn't state that...all the OP mentioned regarding Refits was that some of the examples given were. The OP did not state that they wanted a Refit in similar fashion...and it was like pulling teeth to try to get an answer out of the OP on that...and in the end, they didn't answer. A T1 Refit Miranda would be a newer ship and not subject to the older aspect...
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    virusdancervirusdancer Member Posts: 18,687 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    artan42 wrote: »

    Should be a 2500/5000 ZEN T5 3pack...

    Escort version, Cruiser version, Science version.
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    baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 10,446 Community Moderator
    edited July 2014
    Granted. Some of these are refits/retrofits but they still accomplish the basic aesthetic look and by doing so bringing them into a more uniform appearance for Federation Starships. And I got to wondering if any of this would flow over into starter ships.

    I thought the aesthetics of the ship, not the functionality of it, was the main point of the OP.

    In that regard, I always thought that the ShiKahr was the 2409+ equivalent of the Light Cruiser.
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    fireseeedfireseeed Member Posts: 146 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    So explain the Regent Class? Or the Venture Class? Both of which are retrofits of the Sovereign Class (2370s) and Galaxy Class (Late 2350s). Both of which are updated to be more inline with the aesthetics of 2409/2410. If the argument is 'old ships should look old'...Why are old ships like the Sovereign and Galaxy receiving updates? They should look old by your logic.

    Because they aren't that old, Sovereign is what 30 years old, aircraft carriers built today are expected to be service for 50 years, look at the HMS Queen Elizabeth class.

    Through I be surprise their any Galaxy Class vessels around, they weren't design for constant warfare of Star trek online, they were design to explore.
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    sirokksirokk Member Posts: 990 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Naw, I'm fine with my Tier-2 Constitution, she plays well in Tau Dawa space dailies with her rep gear.
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    oldravenman3025oldravenman3025 Member Posts: 1,892 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    What point was that? That you want the decrepit old vessels specifically added to be "handed out" to raw recruits replaced with new, state-of-the-art vessels to be "handed out" to raw recruits?

    It's not an accident or oversight that new characters aren't given the latest and greatest. They're handed the most patched-up hand-me-downs for a purpose: to save newer, more vital ships from "new captain error attrition."



    Your argument would have some validity if the Centaur and ShiKahr classes weren't modern starships.



    Then again, as proven by other types in the game, age of the basic design doesn't factor into it.
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    orangeitisorangeitis Member Posts: 5,222 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    The Connie's retrofit should be tier 3 at most, Miranda's and Oberth's should be tier 4 at most. IMO, of course.

    Edit: Also, we should get a tier 2 NX retrofit.
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    feiqafeiqa Member Posts: 2,410 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Your argument would have some validity if the Centaur and ShiKahr classes weren't modern starships.



    Then again, as proven by other types in the game, age of the basic design doesn't factor into it.

    Problem is I think there should be a tier 1 Exeter like build for the Miranda. Because the Centaur and Shikar have the exact same stats meaning in all those year they never got any better. We have three body builds for the TMP style connie. Then get an updated version that can also use those costume parts. The Exeter. so yeah a lvl 1 Mirandaesq ship for th c-store.

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    orangeitisorangeitis Member Posts: 5,222 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    f2pdrakron wrote: »
    They arent, the Centaur is a very canon design that was created during the Dominion War by using Excelsior leftover parts as a stopgap measure, its basicly a crappy ship out of spare parts of decommissioned ships as a emergency measure because they needed bodies.

    The ShiKahr is only "modern" in the sense Cryptic wanted to inflate numbers on release, nothing says its modern because its a costume.
    I think there should be a name for the fallacy of arguing using an out-of-continuity/IRL fact against in-continuity events.
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    vetteguy904vetteguy904 Member Posts: 3,886 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    2409+ ships are meant to look like 2409+ ships.

    130+ year old ships are meant to look like 130+ year old ships.

    +1 if you are gonna change anything, let those who have the original connie use that skin on the tier 2 cruiser, and vice versa
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    kazamiyukarinkazamiyukarin Member Posts: 158 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    orangeitis wrote: »
    Also, we should get a tier 2 NX retrofit.

    +1

    If my NX wasn't worse than the Miranda we get at the beginning, I'd actually use it!
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    daan2006daan2006 Member Posts: 5,346 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    why is this not locked it falls in line with the FCT thread
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    snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    orangeitis wrote: »
    The Connie's retrofit should be tier 3 at most, Miranda's and Oberth's should be tier 4 at most. IMO, of course.

    Edit: Also, we should get a tier 2 NX retrofit.

    The Centaur could go toe to toe with the JHAS and was seen doing great in the battle of Cardassia. So it should be T5. It's a Miranda Skin ... so ...
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    hravikhravik Member Posts: 1,203 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I've been saying for years that I'd love a Miranda style ship built from Sovereign parts, or Odyssey parts.
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    hravikhravik Member Posts: 1,203 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    skollulfr wrote: »
    had those in bridge commander didnt they?

    yea, would be nice to see.

    I think someone made a mod once that had the Sovvy one for Armada II, not sure about BC.
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    psiameesepsiameese Member Posts: 1,648 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    f2pdrakron wrote: »
    They arent, the Centaur is a very canon design that was created during the Dominion War by using Excelsior leftover parts as a stopgap measure, its basicly a crappy ship out of spare parts of decommissioned ships as a emergency measure because they needed bodies.

    The ShiKahr is only "modern" in the sense Cryptic wanted to inflate numbers on release, nothing says its modern because its a costume.

    Sharing design with a ship that is made almost entirely out of salvage components of decommissioned ships only "proves" they are crappy ships.

    The T5 Excelsior waves hello to you. Seems to me that if that starship is good enough, at a minimum, it's components/style/modern equipment would be viable for a uprated Centaur-class as well. At just about any tier above 1.

    I agree that the ShiKahr is merely a costume. As it was never put forward as it's own class/build completely independent of a Centaur or a Miranda. But that could easily change.
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    orangeitisorangeitis Member Posts: 5,222 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    The Centaur could go toe to toe with the JHAS and was seen doing great in the battle of Cardassia. So it should be T5. It's a Miranda Skin ... so ...
    The Galaxy is tier 5, and its skin is shared with the Celestial and Envoy classes at tier 4. We could get a tier5 Centaur that can't look like a Miranda.

    >:3
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    mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,963 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I would just like to see a Starfleet Vessel that shares the Miranda/Nebula lineage at Tier 5 but also uses Sovereign and later ship styles.

    By Miranda/Nebula lineage i mean saucer with nacelles but no big engineering section, and by Sovereign and alter ship styles I mean reusing saucer and nacelle designs of these.

    Calling it a "Light Cruiser" might actually work for a general class name. Because they are based on Cruisers, but "lighter". Not sure how to mechanically distinguish them.

    Maybe they could be a kind of 7 weapon slot ship that has both Cruiser Commands and Sensor Analysis, and comes with a decent turn rate. Would be nice to give the "mission module" of the Nebula a meaning. Maybe a special type of secondary deflector (once thye get implemented, whenver that happens), that alters the ship in a more fundamental way.
    Say, the base BO seats is Cmdr Engineering, Lt.Cmdr Science, Lt.Cmdr Tactical, Lt. Engineering
    Strategic Operations Mission Module.
    - Cmdr BO stays with Engineering
    - Ship can use a hangar bay.
    - Gets an extend shields like bonus power
    Tactical Mission Module
    - Cmdr BO is Tactical, Engineer downgraded to Lt.Cmdr
    - Bonus to all torpedo damage
    - Grants a special torpedo attack
    Research Mission Module
    - Cmdr BO is Sciencel, Engineer downgraded to Lt.Cmdr
    - Bonus to science skils
    - Grants Tachyon Scan ability similar to Tier 3 Nebula (but not Tier 5)

    Ah, that probably won't work well with bean-counting... 3 items you cannot use together? Can't make a 3-ship pack from it, and people will always complain they can't just switch. But thematically, it seems the better choice....
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    artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    edited July 2014
    f2pdrakron wrote: »
    They arent, the Centaur is a very canon design that was created during the Dominion War by using Excelsior leftover parts as a stopgap measure, its basicly a crappy ship out of spare parts of decommissioned ships as a emergency measure because they needed bodies.

    No. The model is made of Excelsior parts, the ship itself isn't.
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    orangeitisorangeitis Member Posts: 5,222 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Just throwing these ideas out there. I imagine tier5 Fed starter ships as a jack-of-all-trades line.

    Federation Tactical Frigate - Centaur Class
    *Faction: Federation
    *Required Rank: Vice Admiral (50)
    *Availability: 2,500 Zen
    *Hull Strength: 24,750
    *Shield Strength: 1
    *Crew: 200
    *Weapons: 4 Fore, 3 Aft
    *Device Slots: 3
    *Bridge Officer Stations: 1 Lieutenant Tactical, 1 Lieutenant Engineering, 1 Lieutenant Science, 1 Commander Universal
    *Console Modifications: 4 Tactical, 3 Engineering, 3 Science
    *Base Turn Rate: 6 degrees per second
    *Impulse Modifier: 0.2
    *Inertia: 50
    *+5 to all power levels
    *Can Equip Dual Cannons
    *Console Synergy:
    **Console – Universal – Cannon Overload
    ***Can be equipped to any Federation Frigate or Light Cruiser
    *Matter-Antimatter Warp Core
    *Secondary Deflector slot
    *Cruiser Communication Array Abilities:
    **Command – Weapon System Efficiency
    **Command – Strategic Maneuvering

    Federation Operations Frigate - Miranda Class
    *Faction: Federation
    *Required Rank: Vice Admiral (50)
    *Availability: 2,500 Zen
    *Hull Strength: 24,750
    *Shield Strength: 1
    *Crew: 200
    *Weapons: 4 Fore, 3 Aft
    *Device Slots: 3
    *Bridge Officer Stations: 1 Lieutenant Tactical, 1 Lieutenant Engineering, 1 Lieutenant Science, 1 Commander Universal
    *Console Modifications: 3 Tactical, 4 Engineering, 3 Science
    *Base Turn Rate: 6 degrees per second
    *Impulse Modifier: 0.2
    *Inertia: 50
    *+5 to all power levels
    *Can Equip Dual Cannons
    *Console Synergy:
    **Console – Universal – Frigate Communications System
    ***Can be equipped to any Federation Frigate or Light Cruiser
    *Matter-Antimatter Warp Core
    *Secondary Deflector slot
    *Cruiser Communication Array Abilities:
    **Command – Weapon System Efficiency
    **Command – Strategic Maneuvering

    Federation Science Frigate - Shi'Kahr Class
    *Faction: Federation
    *Required Rank: Vice Admiral (50)
    *Availability: 2,500 Zen
    *Hull Strength: 24,750
    *Shield Strength: 1
    *Crew: 200
    *Weapons: 4 Fore, 3 Aft
    *Device Slots: 3
    *Bridge Officer Stations: 1 Lieutenant Tactical, 1 Lieutenant Engineering, 1 Lieutenant Science, 1 Commander Universal
    *Console Modifications: 3 Tactical, 3 Engineering, 4 Science
    *Base Turn Rate: 6 degrees per second
    *Impulse Modifier: 0.2
    *Inertia: 50
    *+5 to all power levels
    *Can Equip Dual Cannons
    *Console Synergy:
    **Console – Universal – Advanced Sensor Analysis
    ***Can be equipped to any Federation Frigate or Light Cruiser
    *Matter-Antimatter Warp Core
    *Secondary Deflector slot
    *Cruiser Communication Array Abilities:
    **Command – Weapon System Efficiency
    **Command – Strategic Maneuvering
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    snoggymack22snoggymack22 Member Posts: 7,084 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    orangeitis wrote: »
    We could get a tier5 Centaur that can't look like a Miranda.

    >:3

    I'm a big fan of the Centaur. It was the look I chose for my very first ship for my very first character in this game.

    So there's some emotional investment. And yes I'd really dig the ability to fly it at end-game. And there's onscreen evidence of it going toe to toe with one of the more powerful ships in this game.

    So yeah, I'm all in favor of a T5 Centaur. Cause I dig that ship.
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    talonxvtalonxv Member Posts: 4,257 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Considering the Federation already has more ships that both other factions COMBINED how bout we flesh out the romulan line up and IDK get some tier 5 RAPTORS first since there are what NONE!

    good god, crying about wanting light cruisers, how bout the factions that really need ships get some loving first?
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    orangeitisorangeitis Member Posts: 5,222 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    talonxv wrote: »
    Considering the Federation already has more ships that both other factions COMBINED how bout we flesh out the romulan line up and IDK get some tier 5 RAPTORS first since there are what NONE!

    good god, crying about wanting light cruisers, how bout the factions that really need ships get some loving first?
    Feds need ships too, as they are far more bpopular than KDFs. Not saying KDFs shouldn't get much more. On the contrary, more KDF ships would be very very awesome. But the fact is, Feds get more ships because they sell more ships.
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